I love how all the other youtubers making content about this game focused on the game feel, gadgets, and guns... and Philip just runs around breaking as many things as humanly possible. A true gamer's gamer.
@@timeTegus it isn’t, it’s real simulations which even considers the strength of the different materials and falls apart of the supports are too weak to hold it
Lighting accounts for more computation than those simple simulations do in red faction. I'm not dismissing the skills and genius required to make that work however, especially back then and also especially on a PS3 which was the worst console to develop games on for developers at the time.
No one cares about nvidia physx that cripples AMD cards if they tried to run cause of software intentional incompatibility Its all ray tracing now But whats the point of games if they cant mimic basic physics
@@DelahayeChristophe PhysiX is actuall technology which anyone can utilize in their project tho, while teardown is a full fledged game that shows what you can do on x86 systems, but you can't utilize in yet into your own projects by any sort. Except modding, but rather big publisher won't release their AAA titles in the form of mods.
It would be cool if you could interview a Red faction guerilla dev someday. I still don't understand how they were so ahead of the game over a decade ago, and how amazingly well it ran for what was going on!
As a developer, the fact that buildings could calculate any decent capacity to both rumble, crack, and then collapse under their own weight on the 360 hardware while still being super playable is what I find most impressive, even when it didn't always feel like it was entirely accurate.
@@Spartan322 i still don't get why their tech hasn't been developed further or atleast other game engine dev manages to make similar effect in their engine. It's a 2009 game, by today's standard the load made by those calculation should be miniscule compared to all this illumination stuff
@@duccc game market has changed, f2p online models or super large detailed stories are the trend, there probably just isnt the market to sink time into such a niche engine
@@duccc i didn't see gaming market as whole going to shit until 2016, that's more than half a decade for someone to have an idea into researching this tech
@TinoxC Well that happens when a company creates a font, sells the font and others buy them for commercial use.. Thats pretty much how it works, everywhere.
It's a crime that nobody has been able or wanted to license Geo-Mod. Also astonishing that no devs have been able to independantly rival it in over a decade of gaming.
Yup. The entire time I've been watching this video I was thinking "This looks like garbage." Especially compared to Red Faction Guerilla, which is 14 years old at this point.
Man I also remember playing pretty much the exact same map except one person would spawn at the top and could control the cannon that launched the boulders.
My theory regarding older destruction is that because there was less things to render in the world overall they could focus all of their effort on to the things that were. For example, if I don't need to render a forest (because I'm in a desert) imagine how many more ways I could break up a building and not worry about rendering from having no trees/bushes/various other things. Even beyond setting older games could get away with having less meshes/props scattering the world and could focus on those important bits (like Battlefield 2). Also SP. Anyone who has worked with networked physics knows there are only trade-off's & no solutions.
Philip! I have been watching your videos for YEARS. I've always loved the way you've analyzed Counter Strike and other games. It is absolutely surreal you've now done this on a game I actively work on and have given so much high quality feedback! Absolutely loved this video 🎉
I had no idea this was your map with the boulders ! I have very fond memories of playing with my two brothers back in the day on this very Map, thank you !
The first time I saw the CS2 trailers I instantly thought of this video and how you mentioned smoke grenades going through walls. Honestly, perfectly timed posting of this video.
Though, smoke grenades in CS2 are differently done than smoke grenades here. And also CS2 is made by VALV^(E) so of course it is going to have high end stuff just because they can.
It wasn’t just for spectacle in Red Faction: Guerilla either… not sure if that’s what you’re suggesting. I played a ton of the online PvP in that game when it released, and it didn’t just have better destruction physics than any game since. It also gave players a variety of weapons to use those physics to their advantage. And it had more than 10 different backpacks that greatly altered players abilities with those weapons. One would allow you to see heat signatures of players through walls, so with a well placed hit, you could sledge through a wall and kill a player. See someone jet pack onto a bridge? Destroy the supports and watch them die as it comes crashing down. Player camping on a roof above you? Use the thrust pack to propel yourself through the ceiling. Use the invisibility pack to disguise yourself and take out a player trying to climb a ladder by destroying it when they didn’t know you were there. Or maybe just throw a singularity grenade into a building with too many players and watch it implode on them. The important thing is that the physics being more realistic meant players had to do more than just whack whatever was in front of them to bring it down. There were load bearing structures and non load bearing structures. It still is the pinnacle of destruction physics in gaming. Only rivaled in my opinion by some of the destruction in BF1. Probably the best map in the game to showcase the destruction was called Quarantine. The map consisted of 4 buildings that could be leveled completely, surrounded by a fence that would instantly kill anyone who stepped outside. It started as a 3 story map, and by the end of a round, everyone was climbing under and over rubble. With the insane variety of abilities, it was chaotic and very repayable… until everyone stopped playing. Supposedly there are still servers that open now and then for hardcore fans.
You're really spoiling us with all these videos across the empire. I was considering asking if you were going to cover the game but of course you were already working on it. Thank you for the video!
I always wondered why the lighting is so dark in destroyed buildings but i didn't bother to test the GI settings since performance is already bad enough for me. You're doing the lords work philip
Red Faction and Bad Company set my future expectations way to high. I thought the future of gaming was more and more game mechanics, ended up being more about graphics and accessibility sadly.
@@shardell The reason BF1 and BFV suck is because they still designate what and where you can destroy things, the reason people like BC2 is because it functionally never did, its the unnecessary limitations people don't like. We all want to say "I can destroy that" and then turns out we can do just that, no BF game since BC2 allowed that.
Whoa, I can't believe this video turned into another one of "Phil's story-time about the CSS days". Those were my favorite bits of Going Low in CSGO. As soon as I heard the music kick in, I smiled.
Always fun to see destruction in this game! It's only been a couple of days as well and people are already figuring out crazy hidden movement techniques like rocket riding on grabbable explosives Or slingshot slziplines from ramping up speed in multitudes of ways!
When i first saw the trailer i truly chalked it up to something that would be dead in a few months after launch, After seeing the beta however i am truly excited. Those ex dice devs know exactly how to do destruction and the fact its all server side is a technical marvel
I did notice how dark and unrealistic the lighting was in the earlier clips! I was super confused when you said there was rtgi cus it looked so bad earlier, but then you clarified and it made sense 😅
this has become my absolute favorite game, even from the beta. i cant wait to see where it goes. People using the destruction for creative plays in high level esports is gonna be insane to watch
@@jmgonzales7701 I didn't think it would be for me either, because I'm only into really low ttk mil sims, but this won me over with it's sandbox, and how insanely high the skill ceiling goes
4 months after release, gotta say its the best online shooter out there. The level of fun and unexpected things happening is just unreachable. The first online shooter with realtime serversided destruction ah ❤ Been waiting for that since 2009 Red Faction Guerilla yea lol
did anyone else think the breaking sound effects in the first few seconds sound like that meme where a kid breaks a table with stacked concrete blocks? "oh no, it's broken"
Looks pretty awesome. Hard to beat Red Faction geo. We still have a strong community for RF1, hopefully a new RF game comes out and revamps the geo tech.
The fact the physics have to be calculated server-side means that this game has failed if it's being beat by Red Faction. It's also on life support. The moment the servers go down means that this game will be unplayable while Red Faction lives on.
Server side physics doesnt mean that it is relaying/ sending all that calculaions to its client as well, as its not possible for the syncing reason as this would be hella choppy, server side most likely just letting connected machines know at what part of the script running on each machine should be at any giving time, so everything goes down in sync. Example say there are 100 steps to any destruction trigger before it reaches 0. So server will just share the object script is at step 10, 20 etc thats it. this all work easily by implementing a deterministic physics so that the physics behave exactly same on each system which is seriously extremely difficult to implement because of floating points calculation.
My dream game is to have basically another Prototype game with Red Faction: Guerilla’s destruction. I really wish this technology was used in more singleplayer games and that AAA studios focus more on interaction with the environment rather than making the game look pretty.
the lower framerate destruction is probably an issue with culling, stuff far away or hidden from view is likely rendered at a lower framerate for performance reasons and I'd bet that it's hard for massive pieces of buildings to cull or decide not to cull the other pieces behind them in real time.
Guerrilla was awesome, but what I really want to see is Red Faction 1's style of destruction again. Straight up taking chunks out of the level brushwork.
I find 2kliksphilip's mapping skills intriguing, and I would be interested to see him utilize the new tools available in the source engine to create a new level for Counter-Strike. With the latest advancements in map creation technology, there is less excuse for not exploring new creative ideas and experimenting with innovative design approaches. Furthermore, incorporating a guerilla mindset into his mapping process could help to foster a more community-oriented atmosphere among his viewers. By sharing his design methodology and execution with the audience, 2kliksphilip can inspire others to contribute to the Counter-Strike community and bring fresh ideas to the table.
Yeah really sad what happened to that game. Can't blame em tho. The fact you needed like 3 servers for a couple of buildings and the fact that the game was really really hyped probably meant the servers were gonna be really pricy to keep up.
This game is real fun. The destruction is real useful sometimes for blowing up floors beneath objectives or from trying to attack from above by blowing up the ceiling. Real sweaty game though
During my playtime in the open beta, I see some people manage to completely fling the objectives around the map using goo grenades, and it would completely level buildings by going mach 3 straight into them.
I hope destruction goes through a bit of a resurgence it kind of got forgotten and ignored the last 15 years I can only imagine how good it could have been if it hasn't been ignored.
Finaly devs can add destructions back to games and not compromise on graphics thanks to real time lighting with RT. As for static probes without RT, there is no way to make dynamic destructions look good with them, it's possible to prebake a few sets of probes for different states of a scene, but this still would never match real lighting in scene. Applying a constant ambient boost term for semi-destructed scenes might help, but still would be a lackluster solution, so RT FTW
This feels like teardown if it was more modular. And obviously less pixely. But the weightless chunks of architecture definitely seem reminiscent of it. But it also does make sense why there isn't such highly detailed destruction. Both because performance and just making sense of the environment.
I think RTGI is a must. Might be the first game to have ray tracing be a competitive advantage for the game as RTGI really helps with visibility and visual. Since this game is using UE4, it can upgrade to UE5 and when UE5 is game ready...this game will benefit from it's lighting system called Lumen.
I have to assume it was in your contact that you can't compare it to Teardown, since you didn't even mention it. Also I love these destruction related videos, and this one even had a flashback!
My dream: a Gary's Mod-like meta game for Red Faction: Guerilla in which one can spawn any structure and destroy it with any weaponry they choose. No "gameplay" or story, no baddies or time constraints, no travelling vast distances to find the next intact building, just spawn what you want and then go to town on it. I'd never stop playing that.
An ArmA 3 style editor where you could spawn incoming vehicle columns and drop buildings on top of APCs with demolition charges or wait until they cross a bridge to drop a span and send them plunging to the bottom of the canyon.
I swear I played a map like this back in the day 6:34 but can't remember the layout right off. It may have been a similar idea, or even your own, I'm not too sure. Ahh, the good old days.
Wait.. was that rock falling map in cs:s the one on community servers? I feel like I remember playing a map just like that many years ago, unless it was just a similar map? Pretty cool if you made that, small world.
>New game has raytracing and all the new shiny fancy stuff >Me just wanting my gl_picmip and r_drawviewmodel options to hide visual clutter in every shooter
Reminder that Red Faction: Guerrilla already had multiplayer with almost perfect destruction sync and that there is a Re-MARS-tered version of it. (I did not make the pun, the game is called like this)
I hope to see this technology in future Embark games pushed further. Imagine what they could do with this a single player game. It could be RFG levels of awesome.
Destruction in Battlefield is cool, but the peak really was with Bad Company 2 which allowed you to level entire maps, now it's just a few parts of environment here and there, not the same, this Finals thing brings Bad Company 2 vibes, but less scripted, nice.
When you brought up Red Faction needing ray tracing I just realised what an amazing idea it would be to re-make it. Like full remake treatment too, not just add ons.
@@Eira_99 There’s actually already is a “remaster” in a sense, called RFG re-mars-tered, but there’s not many changes graphically wise, its more about the gameplay.
I bet the large cubular chunks are to reduce server load, and to make it more comprehensive as gameplay. It doesn't feel as satisfying, but I imagine a meta of blowing pieces of the map around like a riot shield. Would rather too large to protect me than too small and mean less for the gameplay.
Red Faction was ahead of its time. The problem was that in Red Faction destruction was more of a gimmic because the story was pretty dry and it had no real PvP or competitive play. But imagine it did. Would be an all time great.
Red Faction was pretty amazing. And still is. The technology for stopping smoke clipping through walls does exist. In fact clipping for most real world objects clipping through any parts of the environment has been solved. As seen in max Payne 3. Especially with people. Enemies fall correctly and don't clip into the environment. And they even fall on top of each other correctly with no clipping at all. Also the tech demo that was made by Dice, that came out before 2042 showed particle effects and smoke bellowing. The smoke hit a concrete slab and moved across it without clipping.
This is pure speculation, and I’m not an experienced game developer, but it all being done serverside could potentially be why it *doesn’t* feature smaller bits of rubble. I can imagine it would get quite taxing.
Even though it's a bit choppy because the destruction is done server-side, it does feel a bit more realistic than it did in Teardown in how structures fall at the right speed still of feeling lighter than they looked (even if you can't blow things bit-by-bit, it always turned me off how collapsing structures would often bend and bounce as if they were made of a flexible material)
Pretty much every game except for Red Faction and Men of War* does destructible environments server-side. It's the cheapest and LEAST choppy way of doing it, because usually no actual simulation takes place. Buildings have various states, whenever you blow up a wall, the server just updates the state of the building. All your computer is doing is rendering the explosion FX and some simple client-side debris simulation that disappears later (or becomes a static object). The Finals is one of the very few games that appears to actually do some physics simulation server-side, but it's clearly limited and only for the big debris. * What I meant by that is that most games simply use pre-determined building states and most of the destruction "physics" are client side (See: Battlefield series) because they're just for visual and don't interact with the player models or projectiles. RF:G and MoW are the only games AFAIK that have the server do actual physics calculations, where every piece of wall stays in the map for a long time and remains an interactive object that players, projectiles and other debri can collide with.
It's such a shame that no game has even come close to Red Faction Guerilla in terms of destruction. I remember playing it as a kid and getting excited for the potential of destruction on that level in future games
@@G3Kappa Well I do think its taking up a lot of resources and thats why they have limited the update rate of the destruction. Its not only a question of if it is possible or not but it also needs to be cost efficient.
Is destruction physics in nanites roadmap? The matrix awakens demo already showed us that ue5 has implenented vehicle destruction physics but im not sure if its a feature of ue5 or a proprietary thing developed for the demo.
I love how all the other youtubers making content about this game focused on the game feel, gadgets, and guns... and Philip just runs around breaking as many things as humanly possible. A true gamer's gamer.
Bc that's the best part of the game
I feel like Philip might just be my spirit animal at this point.
Thats cause other youtubers are bozos
You focus on the bigger picture
Most youtubers do what philip is doing, because tbh that's the only interesting thing about this game
@@zaicanna96It's not the best part tho
It's amazing to me how well the destruction in red faction works, considering how old it is!
Maby it's a animation so it does not need to be simulated
@@timeTegus it isn’t, it’s real simulations which even considers the strength of the different materials and falls apart of the supports are too weak to hold it
@@ValentineC137 yes I am just watching his video about it 😯
@@timeTegusWhy would he compare an animated system to a dynamic system in the video lol
Lighting accounts for more computation than those simple simulations do in red faction. I'm not dismissing the skills and genius required to make that work however, especially back then and also especially on a PS3 which was the worst console to develop games on for developers at the time.
"I also tested smoke grenades in the hope they wouldn't pass through walls, but the technology still isn't there for that."
*cries in PhysX*
I like your pfp
Also, the technology exists, remember that blocky game based on destruction ?
No one cares about nvidia physx that cripples AMD cards if they tried to run cause of software intentional incompatibility
Its all ray tracing now
But whats the point of games if they cant mimic basic physics
@@DelahayeChristophe PhysiX is actuall technology which anyone can utilize in their project tho, while teardown is a full fledged game that shows what you can do on x86 systems, but you can't utilize in yet into your own projects by any sort. Except modding, but rather big publisher won't release their AAA titles in the form of mods.
Based Mirror's Edge pfp
It would be cool if you could interview a Red faction guerilla dev someday. I still don't understand how they were so ahead of the game over a decade ago, and how amazingly well it ran for what was going on!
As a developer, the fact that buildings could calculate any decent capacity to both rumble, crack, and then collapse under their own weight on the 360 hardware while still being super playable is what I find most impressive, even when it didn't always feel like it was entirely accurate.
@@Spartan322 i still don't get why their tech hasn't been developed further or atleast other game engine dev manages to make similar effect in their engine. It's a 2009 game, by today's standard the load made by those calculation should be miniscule compared to all this illumination stuff
@@piscessoedroen devs nowadays prioritize graphics more than gameplay I guess. Make everything shiny and super detailed to attract more people
@@duccc game market has changed, f2p online models or super large detailed stories are the trend, there probably just isnt the market to sink time into such a niche engine
@@duccc i didn't see gaming market as whole going to shit until 2016, that's more than half a decade for someone to have an idea into researching this tech
That after death spectate @ 1:55 is identical to battlefield. Movement and everything. pretty wild
;)
The Main Menu is "identical" to the one from overwatch 2.
lmao you're right. How he ran away could be 1:1 from bf
@TinoxC Well that happens when a company creates a font, sells the font and others buy them for commercial use..
Thats pretty much how it works, everywhere.
@@xcruell It's not just the font, it's the whole UI. Even the friend and "previously played with" menu looks like OW
It's a crime that nobody has been able or wanted to license Geo-Mod. Also astonishing that no devs have been able to independantly rival it in over a decade of gaming.
Yup. The entire time I've been watching this video I was thinking "This looks like garbage." Especially compared to Red Faction Guerilla, which is 14 years old at this point.
6:34 - you made this map??? that's some insane nostalgia trip for me, completely forgot about it. Used to play this and similar maps so much.
Man I also remember playing pretty much the exact same map except one person would spawn at the top and could control the cannon that launched the boulders.
My theory regarding older destruction is that because there was less things to render in the world overall they could focus all of their effort on to the things that were. For example, if I don't need to render a forest (because I'm in a desert) imagine how many more ways I could break up a building and not worry about rendering from having no trees/bushes/various other things. Even beyond setting older games could get away with having less meshes/props scattering the world and could focus on those important bits (like Battlefield 2).
Also SP. Anyone who has worked with networked physics knows there are only trade-off's & no solutions.
From creating levels in source, to leveling levels, you really leveled up
This comment is on another level Bravo! 👏
Philip! I have been watching your videos for YEARS. I've always loved the way you've analyzed Counter Strike and other games.
It is absolutely surreal you've now done this on a game I actively work on and have given so much high quality feedback! Absolutely loved this video 🎉
3:26 and Valve took that personally
I had no idea this was your map with the boulders ! I have very fond memories of playing with my two brothers back in the day on this very Map, thank you !
You should watch 2klikphilip's 'Crazy Knife Dude VS the World" video. It tells a bit more about it.
"I checked if smoke grenades don't pass through walls, but the technology isn't there for that yet it seems". Looking forward to the CS2 vid lol
Destruction is great to see in some modern games again. I'm also always glad to see any form of ray tracing added into games
The first time I saw the CS2 trailers I instantly thought of this video and how you mentioned smoke grenades going through walls. Honestly, perfectly timed posting of this video.
Though, smoke grenades in CS2 are differently done than smoke grenades here. And also CS2 is made by VALV^(E) so of course it is going to have high end stuff just because they can.
great video PHIL
What's great about the Finals is, it's not just for spectacle. It genuinely opens up tactical options.
I have lost many a fight by the enemy blowing up the ground to disorient me before their whole team just completely shits on me 😔
It wasn’t just for spectacle in Red Faction: Guerilla either… not sure if that’s what you’re suggesting. I played a ton of the online PvP in that game when it released, and it didn’t just have better destruction physics than any game since. It also gave players a variety of weapons to use those physics to their advantage. And it had more than 10 different backpacks that greatly altered players abilities with those weapons.
One would allow you to see heat signatures of players through walls, so with a well placed hit, you could sledge through a wall and kill a player. See someone jet pack onto a bridge? Destroy the supports and watch them die as it comes crashing down. Player camping on a roof above you? Use the thrust pack to propel yourself through the ceiling. Use the invisibility pack to disguise yourself and take out a player trying to climb a ladder by destroying it when they didn’t know you were there. Or maybe just throw a singularity grenade into a building with too many players and watch it implode on them.
The important thing is that the physics being more realistic meant players had to do more than just whack whatever was in front of them to bring it down. There were load bearing structures and non load bearing structures. It still is the pinnacle of destruction physics in gaming. Only rivaled in my opinion by some of the destruction in BF1.
Probably the best map in the game to showcase the destruction was called Quarantine. The map consisted of 4 buildings that could be leveled completely, surrounded by a fence that would instantly kill anyone who stepped outside. It started as a 3 story map, and by the end of a round, everyone was climbing under and over rubble. With the insane variety of abilities, it was chaotic and very repayable… until everyone stopped playing. Supposedly there are still servers that open now and then for hardcore fans.
You're really spoiling us with all these videos across the empire. I was considering asking if you were going to cover the game but of course you were already working on it. Thank you for the video!
I always wondered why the lighting is so dark in destroyed buildings but i didn't bother to test the GI settings since performance is already bad enough for me. You're doing the lords work philip
It won't affect your performance much since the current performance bottleneck is the CPU. It will be optimized before the game is released.
Your writing, content and humor is so good!
There is a game called Instruments of Destruction from ex-Volition dev (that made Red Faction), it spots pretty nice destruction as well!
Red Faction and Bad Company set my future expectations way to high. I thought the future of gaming was more and more game mechanics, ended up being more about graphics and accessibility sadly.
BF1 and BFV destruction definitely surpassed BC2 destruction
@@shardell The reason BF1 and BFV suck is because they still designate what and where you can destroy things, the reason people like BC2 is because it functionally never did, its the unnecessary limitations people don't like. We all want to say "I can destroy that" and then turns out we can do just that, no BF game since BC2 allowed that.
You don't like getting 1% better graphics for 10 times more performance demand? I love diminishing results.
@@Spartan322 And BC2 still has by far the best terrain damage for a BF game. Remember some truly deep craters on some rush maps.
@@Old_Ladies Yeah, I think the only game that came close with terrain damage since was Hell Let Loose but its destruction was a lot less.
I was hoping Phillip would discover this game. A detailed analysis on it's destruction is awfully entertaining xD
The collapse at the end reminds me when at gym they brought out the rainbow tap/parachute thing and everyone would run underneath it.
Whoa, I can't believe this video turned into another one of "Phil's story-time about the CSS days". Those were my favorite bits of Going Low in CSGO. As soon as I heard the music kick in, I smiled.
Always fun to see destruction in this game! It's only been a couple of days as well and people are already figuring out crazy hidden movement techniques like rocket riding on grabbable explosives Or slingshot slziplines from ramping up speed in multitudes of ways!
This is the kind of content I'm subscribed for
Loved the jump cut at the end!
When i first saw the trailer i truly chalked it up to something that would be dead in a few months after launch, After seeing the beta however i am truly excited. Those ex dice devs know exactly how to do destruction and the fact its all server side is a technical marvel
Since it's a Beta, to summarize everyone's feedback for the devs:
"EVEN MORE *detailed* DESTRUCTION, PLEASE"
that "always online" era really did a number on the gaming industry
I did notice how dark and unrealistic the lighting was in the earlier clips! I was super confused when you said there was rtgi cus it looked so bad earlier, but then you clarified and it made sense 😅
this has become my absolute favorite game, even from the beta. i cant wait to see where it goes. People using the destruction for creative plays in high level esports is gonna be insane to watch
It looks good but not my cup of tea tbh
@@jmgonzales7701 I didn't think it would be for me either, because I'm only into really low ttk mil sims, but this won me over with it's sandbox, and how insanely high the skill ceiling goes
@@Phantomdude have fun
minecraft blocks built world of teardown is nothing alike these two games
no way they gonna allow esport that is ACTUALLY fun and varied.
the game will be killed in some way before its gonna flourish
4 months after release, gotta say its the best online shooter out there. The level of fun and unexpected things happening is just unreachable.
The first online shooter with realtime serversided destruction ah ❤ Been waiting for that since 2009 Red Faction Guerilla yea lol
That looks so cool! I really hope they go further with the destruction. The fact that this concept has been so overlooked saddens me.
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Amazing video, hopefully I get to playtest it.
did anyone else think the breaking sound effects in the first few seconds sound like that meme where a kid breaks a table with stacked concrete blocks? "oh no, it's broken"
Looks pretty awesome. Hard to beat Red Faction geo. We still have a strong community for RF1, hopefully a new RF game comes out and revamps the geo tech.
Oh wow. Makes me want to go back and play RED Faction again.
6:43 oh my god... nostalgia
love how there is still a love for destruction in gaming
"You can never have too much destruction"
EXACTLY
The fact the physics have to be calculated server-side means that this game has failed if it's being beat by Red Faction. It's also on life support. The moment the servers go down means that this game will be unplayable while Red Faction lives on.
this, based take.
Server side physics doesnt mean that it is relaying/ sending all that calculaions to its client as well, as its not possible for the syncing reason as this would be hella choppy, server side most likely just letting connected machines know at what part of the script running on each machine should be at any giving time, so everything goes down in sync. Example say there are 100 steps to any destruction trigger before it reaches 0. So server will just share the object script is at step 10, 20 etc thats it. this all work easily by implementing a deterministic physics so that the physics behave exactly same on each system which is seriously extremely difficult to implement because of floating points calculation.
This is what the environments in Unreal Tournament should realistically look like after every match of the Liandri Grand Tournament.
Come on Phillip I'm not a bot.
My dream game is to have basically another Prototype game with Red Faction: Guerilla’s destruction. I really wish this technology was used in more singleplayer games and that AAA studios focus more on interaction with the environment rather than making the game look pretty.
The video I didn’t know I needed tonight
the lower framerate destruction is probably an issue with culling, stuff far away or hidden from view is likely rendered at a lower framerate for performance reasons and I'd bet that it's hard for massive pieces of buildings to cull or decide not to cull the other pieces behind them in real time.
This is literally what Crackdown 3 was promised to be, guess it just took a little longer for the idea to actually become a reality
Guerrilla was awesome, but what I really want to see is Red Faction 1's style of destruction again. Straight up taking chunks out of the level brushwork.
This looks great Philip
I'm surprised & hella glad that people actually remember Red Faction's destruction
I find 2kliksphilip's mapping skills intriguing, and I would be interested to see him utilize the new tools available in the source engine to create a new level for Counter-Strike. With the latest advancements in map creation technology, there is less excuse for not exploring new creative ideas and experimenting with innovative design approaches.
Furthermore, incorporating a guerilla mindset into his mapping process could help to foster a more community-oriented atmosphere among his viewers. By sharing his design methodology and execution with the audience, 2kliksphilip can inspire others to contribute to the Counter-Strike community and bring fresh ideas to the table.
Philip has a knack for video game physics.
Philip is my kind of guy!
Edit: Wait a minute.. YOU MADE THE SMASH GAMEMODE?!?!?! :O
thanks for immediately imploding my eardrums
I remember Crackdown 3 promised infinite destruction thanks to server side calculation but now we get to see this tech in action.
Yeah really sad what happened to that game. Can't blame em tho. The fact you needed like 3 servers for a couple of buildings and the fact that the game was really really hyped probably meant the servers were gonna be really pricy to keep up.
This game is real fun. The destruction is real useful sometimes for blowing up floors beneath objectives or from trying to attack from above by blowing up the ceiling. Real sweaty game though
The game runs on Unreal Engine 5. That explains the slow updates to lighting changes, as the global illumination updates.
It's made on UE4, not 5
During my playtime in the open beta, I see some people manage to completely fling the objectives around the map using goo grenades, and it would completely level buildings by going mach 3 straight into them.
I hope destruction goes through a bit of a resurgence it kind of got forgotten and ignored the last 15 years I can only imagine how good it could have been if it hasn't been ignored.
Finaly devs can add destructions back to games and not compromise on graphics thanks to real time lighting with RT. As for static probes without RT, there is no way to make dynamic destructions look good with them, it's possible to prebake a few sets of probes for different states of a scene, but this still would never match real lighting in scene. Applying a constant ambient boost term for semi-destructed scenes might help, but still would be a lackluster solution, so RT FTW
Honestly this is exactly what we mean by realistic we don’t want a harder game just more options, ray-trace, destruction, wether effects etc etc
This feels like teardown if it was more modular. And obviously less pixely.
But the weightless chunks of architecture definitely seem reminiscent of it.
But it also does make sense why there isn't such highly detailed destruction. Both because performance and just making sense of the environment.
I think RTGI is a must. Might be the first game to have ray tracing be a competitive advantage for the game as RTGI really helps with visibility and visual. Since this game is using UE4, it can upgrade to UE5 and when UE5 is game ready...this game will benefit from it's lighting system called Lumen.
I have to assume it was in your contact that you can't compare it to Teardown, since you didn't even mention it. Also I love these destruction related videos, and this one even had a flashback!
You may disagree, but I think Minecraft's destruction is clearly more relevant than Red Faction.
My dream: a Gary's Mod-like meta game for Red Faction: Guerilla in which one can spawn any structure and destroy it with any weaponry they choose. No "gameplay" or story, no baddies or time constraints, no travelling vast distances to find the next intact building, just spawn what you want and then go to town on it. I'd never stop playing that.
An ArmA 3 style editor where you could spawn incoming vehicle columns and drop buildings on top of APCs with demolition charges or wait until they cross a bridge to drop a span and send them plunging to the bottom of the canyon.
I swear I played a map like this back in the day 6:34 but can't remember the layout right off. It may have been a similar idea, or even your own, I'm not too sure. Ahh, the good old days.
Maybe mg_smash_cannonz as that was very popular.
Wait.. was that rock falling map in cs:s the one on community servers? I feel like I remember playing a map just like that many years ago, unless it was just a similar map? Pretty cool if you made that, small world.
Great video Phillip, but do you think you could make the next one about upscaling?
One game that I thought had surprisingly good destruction physics was Just Cause 3. The bridges are extremely satisfying to blow up!
It also had real time deformation on metal structures, i definetly wasn't expecting them to go that far.
>New game has raytracing and all the new shiny fancy stuff
>Me just wanting my gl_picmip and r_drawviewmodel options to hide visual clutter in every shooter
Reminder that Red Faction: Guerrilla already had multiplayer with almost perfect destruction sync and that there is a Re-MARS-tered version of it. (I did not make the pun, the game is called like this)
I hope to see this technology in future Embark games pushed further. Imagine what they could do with this a single player game. It could be RFG levels of awesome.
It's games like this that really remind you just how much of a gem Red Faction really is. Even near 14 years ago, modern titles don't even come close.
i like how the walls can immediately crumble like cookies
That boulder map was yours?! Seeing that again brought back a lot of memories
Destruction in Battlefield is cool, but the peak really was with Bad Company 2 which allowed you to level entire maps, now it's just a few parts of environment here and there, not the same, this Finals thing brings Bad Company 2 vibes, but less scripted, nice.
This is the game where all ex DICE talents put their work... and then what's was left, we saw in bf2042 :D
If csgo on source 2 will come with new rubicon physics engine, it would be awesome
I think this is the best use of ray tracing to date
When you brought up Red Faction needing ray tracing I just realised what an amazing idea it would be to re-make it. Like full remake treatment too, not just add ons.
@@2kliksphilip That would also be amazing.
@@Eira_99 There’s actually already is a “remaster” in a sense, called RFG re-mars-tered, but there’s not many changes graphically wise, its more about the gameplay.
I bet the large cubular chunks are to reduce server load, and to make it more comprehensive as gameplay. It doesn't feel as satisfying, but I imagine a meta of blowing pieces of the map around like a riot shield. Would rather too large to protect me than too small and mean less for the gameplay.
I loce how you brought up many old games whenever they were relevant
Best video on the game so far
Red Faction was ahead of its time. The problem was that in Red Faction destruction was more of a gimmic because the story was pretty dry and it had no real PvP or competitive play. But imagine it did. Would be an all time great.
Was hoping for something closer to a dumbed down teardown.
Red Faction was pretty amazing. And still is. The technology for stopping smoke clipping through walls does exist. In fact clipping for most real world objects clipping through any parts of the environment has been solved. As seen in max Payne 3. Especially with people. Enemies fall correctly and don't clip into the environment. And they even fall on top of each other correctly with no clipping at all. Also the tech demo that was made by Dice, that came out before 2042 showed particle effects and smoke bellowing. The smoke hit a concrete slab and moved across it without clipping.
This is pure speculation, and I’m not an experienced game developer, but it all being done serverside could potentially be why it *doesn’t* feature smaller bits of rubble. I can imagine it would get quite taxing.
Even though it's a bit choppy because the destruction is done server-side, it does feel a bit more realistic than it did in Teardown in how structures fall at the right speed still of feeling lighter than they looked (even if you can't blow things bit-by-bit, it always turned me off how collapsing structures would often bend and bounce as if they were made of a flexible material)
Pretty much every game except for Red Faction and Men of War* does destructible environments server-side. It's the cheapest and LEAST choppy way of doing it, because usually no actual simulation takes place. Buildings have various states, whenever you blow up a wall, the server just updates the state of the building. All your computer is doing is rendering the explosion FX and some simple client-side debris simulation that disappears later (or becomes a static object). The Finals is one of the very few games that appears to actually do some physics simulation server-side, but it's clearly limited and only for the big debris.
* What I meant by that is that most games simply use pre-determined building states and most of the destruction "physics" are client side (See: Battlefield series) because they're just for visual and don't interact with the player models or projectiles. RF:G and MoW are the only games AFAIK that have the server do actual physics calculations, where every piece of wall stays in the map for a long time and remains an interactive object that players, projectiles and other debri can collide with.
Love it
How much does RTXGI impact performance? It doesn't make sense if it halves your performance.
In fairness Red Faction didn't need to worry about syncing all the rubble to a bunch of people over the internet
Red Faction has multiplayer, and the destruction is fully functional in it.
Well, you can still see a tiny bit inside due to the high amount of fog, but if the collapsed building is pitch black than that is really bad
It's such a shame that no game has even come close to Red Faction Guerilla in terms of destruction. I remember playing it as a kid and getting excited for the potential of destruction on that level in future games
finally a game gives you advantages for increasing graphic settings
I imagine the hardest part about this destruction is the syncing with other players.
@@G3Kappa Well I do think its taking up a lot of resources and thats why they have limited the update rate of the destruction. Its not only a question of if it is possible or not but it also needs to be cost efficient.
My question is, why aren't they using Lumen. It's a great feature, and in a game like this, it should be important to be using Lumen.
Is destruction physics in nanites roadmap? The matrix awakens demo already showed us that ue5 has implenented vehicle destruction physics but im not sure if its a feature of ue5 or a proprietary thing developed for the demo.
i never even heard of this game but it looks kind of unique lookin' & amazing to play one day.