What do you think of Sophia Dorothea’s treatment by her family? Let me know below and remember to check out my Patreon at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I'd hate to be under such a prolonged house arrest, regardless of how you kept yourself busy you'd still have way too much time to think about how you got there. I think she should have been given a more lenient situation, given that she agreed so readily to the divorce
I know the country is rightfully in mourning. 😢 However, maybe not give a running commentary but an explainer of the events not only to UK viewers but particularly viewers abroad on your channel. It's hopefully only a once-in-a-lifetime event but it is seismic. We are a constitutional monarchy with an unwritten constitution so the sequence and rituals are real and vital but must be mystifying to those not used to them. Due to the 1707 Settlement the monarch changes religion from England to Scotland etc. The Privy Council's Accession Council has never been made public before. Westminster Hall, is one of the few remnants of the original Palace along with St. Margaret's Church and the Old Court to survive both major fires and the blitz. Built by William II with a hammer-beam roof by Richard II, both monarchs renowned for little else., apart from Richard II inventing the handkerchief maybe, I believe it was the largest room North of the Alps when constructed. Do you think Richard II wore a handkerchief in Westminster Hall? Now that would be something! It still is a royal palace but not used as such. Westminster Abbey is a Royal Peculiar owned not by the Church of England but as the name implies,, the monarch. Please note the spiritual significance of the Cosmati Pavement inside which you may hear about as we approach the coronation of the new king. On a personal note. My parents indulged my history hobby and took me to Holyroodhouse Palace when I was a boy and saw the secret staircase Darnley and fellows used to get into Mary Queen of Scots' Bedchamber. Did you ever go? They took me to St. George's Chapel ~ Windsor to attend the annual St. George's Day Parade with the scouts hosted by Princess Margaret. I wasn t here for the last coronation but do remember the last State Funeral of Winston Churchill. Talking of Royal Peculiars were you aware of the Savoy Chapel? As the name implies it's at the Savoy, the palace of the astounding John of Gaunt and probably the most well-appointed palace in London until those whipscallions and ruffians burnt it down in the Peasants Revolt in1381, there's simply no accounting for some people. On it's site Henry VIII built a hospital with its chapel. Sadly only the chapel survives and is used, it too is a Royal Peculiar. Because the land is owned by the Lancastrian Duchy, have I mentioned I'm a Lancastrian by the way 😉, King Charles has just inherited it from his dear mother. God Save the King and may he live long! "Carolus Rex". Regards, Titus.
Can you please make a good, long video or two about Charles II of England? He’s my favorite King of England and there aren’t nearly enough good RUclips videos about him. 🏴 🇬🇧 👑
Great video, as usual! I know they tend to get less engagement, but I always love your non-Tudor videos. I'm not a history scholar, so this story is one I'd never heard and probably would not have done if not for this. Thank you for all your hard work :)
Thank you. I love my breaks from the Tudors too. I just wish other people would give different parts of history a try too. They don't know what they're missing!
It really does seem to have been a royal tradition to have as many mistresses as possible, but the double standards always make me shake my head. Double standards make no sense to me. What’s bad for one is bad for both I’d say.I suppose at least they’d secured an heir first. 🙄 It’s dreadful what they did to Sophie. They punish her, yet George is given a kingdom. Utterly disgusting and barmy! Also to give you a little chuckle… I was watching this, zoned out on what you was saying and when you mentioned Henry the Eighth and his portrait suddenly moved, for some reason it made me jump. I was nearly Henry’s last victim! Haha! 😂
Yes, fidelity wasn't a big thing for Kings at that point. Sorry for making you jump. The last thing I want to do is start killing off my subscribers! :-)
I first heard of this story from watching an old British classic from 1948 called "Saraband." It was very well-written and had Joan Greenwood (of the mellifluous voice) playing Sophia Dorothea and Stewart Granger as Koeningsmarck. He later said that it was one of the few roles he had that he was most proud of. Lots of other good actors of the time are in it and it was the first Ealing Studios film to be shot in color. It even got an Academy Award nomination for Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Color. Really worth searching out.
@@English_Dawn Better. Even though Granger may have dismissed his swashbuckling roles, at least he cared enough to hone his fencing skills and became quite proficient. But he wasn't quite up to the gold standard -- Basil Rathbone, who was a two-time British Army fencing champ. And Rathbone complimented Tyrone Power's fencing in The Mark of Zorro, saying "he could have fenced Errol Flynn into a cocked hat."
Thank you HC superb as always, I have heard of this scandalous affair, I have to say she was treated more than harshly and to be kept a virtual prisoner to not see her children very cruel in my opinion, as for the count I believe he was certainly murderd.
I’ve commented about this before and I’m sure that, At some point, I’ll comment about it again- But, No Matter How Bad of a day I’m having, As soon as I click on a History Calling video and hear the Happy Little Tune, My mood instantly improves and I Can’t Help but bob my head left and right! So, Thank You History Calling for Another Amazing Video and a theme song that Always Lifts my Spirits!! Also, realizing that your country is in mourning due to the Heartbreaking Loss of her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, I send my Deepest Condolences and wish you and your family peace and comfort during this Very Sad Time- Wishing you and yours the Very Best, Stefanie
Thank you so much Stefanie for your very kind words. I'm glad the tune peps you up (though I should perhaps warn you that I'm working on a video on Queen Elizabeth at the moment and I think I'm going to forgo the start-up music for once as I actually think it's too peppy for that particular video).
I loved this one! I almost think it’s the best one yet. I’ve either read about or watched something about the “missing” Count and the search for him, but it didn’t involve this scandal. So sad the Princess couldn’t see her children. The hypocrisy concerning her ex husband’s behavior is awful. It’s a shame the Count and Princess couldn’t have been allowed to be together. Thanks for another great video.
@@HistoryCalling i hope you do get up there. My gut feeling/intuition says it will as she does great content and researche behind it, also being a legitimate historian. I hope she gets up there with history tea time with lindsay 😇
Yes, though there is a certain logic to it as it was important to know if the Queen’s babies belong to the King. It looks like the King only bothered to tell her to break it off because she had made it so public-kind of like the Duchess of Devonshire.
Indeed, which is why Anne Boleyn's supposed infidelities were considered treason, because if true they could have altered the succession and caused the throne to pass to a child not of the King's blood.
Hello History Calling…what an interesting story! I didn’t know about this. Thank you for putting this together. I have been sad for all of you. I liked the Queen. Her sense of duty was remarkable. It must be very difficult for all who have only known her as their monarch. No matter queen or subject, rich or poor, of any faith or nationality…to those who call them “granny, gran, grandmother or nana, she will be missed and loved for her love to them. I miss my grandmother still. God bless you all.
Thanks Amy. Yes, it is an odd feeling to know that she's gone. I'm putting together a video on her at the moment and I keep finding myself welling up. Also, like you, I miss my grandmothers too (and grandfathers of course). I wish they'd been able to live to 96 and be in pretty good health until nearly the end.
I had almost forgotten about Sophie Dorothea. Since I grew up in Celle, I first heard about her in school, though of course a somewhat cleaner version. ;-) Thank you for this video and most especially the correct pronounciation of my hometown!
@@robvig60 No, it's Celle, but the C is usually spoken rather sharp, like the Z in German. I assume some misspellings in some of the pictures we saw in the video go back to that issue.
Thanks Diana and I'm glad I got the pronunciation correct. I listened to various pronunciation guides online, but you just never know if it's really right until the video is out and the comments start coming in.
I'd never heard of this scandal but honestly it doesn't surprise me. The Hanoverians were a mess when it came to family affairs. Sons, fathers, mothers, and daughters all seemed to hate each other so it's not that shocking that there were some pretty rocky marriages too besides the obvious one of George IV and Caroline of Brunswick. I think this one makes that one look tame tho because George IV never actually divorced then locked up his wife.
Yes, the Hanoverians were renowned for fathers disliking sons in particular and vice versa. They just didn't seem able learn from the mistakes of earlier generations. George II and Caroline of Ansbach were a happy couple though.
Loved this one! An interesting episode would be looking at names of monarchs. For example- that they can choose their own names, and names that haven’t been repeated. For example, King John. There’s not been a King Henry since VIII, etc.
I was just thinking about the almost Henry IX when I read Savage Darksider's comment. Yes they can pick their own names, though that is more of a recent development. Henry VIII and Elizabeth I didn't have any middle names to potentially use. Names like John have been reused within the family, but never for the heir. I suppose they don't want the heir to have any negative associations attached to them. People were always comparing the two Elizabeths for instance, even though they had nothing in common beyond becoming Queen at 25. It would have been awkward if EII had been named after someone bad.
@@HistoryCalling I love that more recent royalty offers MANY options in the way of middle names, then. I didn’t realize EI and Henry VIII didn’t have middle names. I didn’t think about that. (Though my own grandmother didn’t have one, either.)
@@HistoryCalling At one point King Edward I oldest living child was a John [ Edward's grandfather ], his older brother Henry having died. After John's death, Edward's heir was Prince Alfonso! Presumably named after one of his mother's family [Eleanor of Castile] . He died aged 11 years and then Edward seems to have relented to his own name being used and the future Edward II was born.
As always another great video, I thoroughly enjoy everything you post, and find myself longing for the next one as soon as I’m done! The Tudor period has always been my favourite to research, I’m very excited for the Margaret Beaufort video you have planned, but I would absolutely love for you to do some on Queen Victoria and Albert, and there children. Would that be something you hope to do in the future? Thankyou for all the hardwork and effort you put into all your videos, the attention to detail is outstanding and much appreciated, and sets you apart from the countless other historical videos online. Best wishes, and I look forward to your next video. JT
Sophia and Philip would have been fodder for TMZ and the tabloids had they lived today; it would have been scandalous but most likely without a sinister disappearance. The injustice of the double standard is outrageous, of course. Just wrong on so many levels. I enjoyed my second cup of joe while listening to you @ 7 AM California time; an unusual treat for my Sunday mornings. Well done, HC. Be well. 🙏🏼
Yes, this would put some of the modern royal scandals into context. If it wasn't for the fact that I don't want to spend my Sunday afternoons answering comments on a regular basis (plus I'm quite often out of the house), I would put the videos out at this time all the time as Sunday seems to be a popular day for RUclipsrs to post. Unfortunately it just doesn't suit me very well. :-(
Been longing for this since friday! Though I appreciate the not posting as a sign of respect for the late Queen :) Haven’t watched it yet (it only just came out) but I’m sure it’s gonna be every bit as good as the others!
I absolutely love your videos! I rewatch videos throughout the week to hold me over until Friday. 😊 I know you’ve mentioned in the past that your American videos don’t seem to be doing so well, but if you ever decide to try another, I would like to suggest one regarding Mt. St. Helens. I’ve always been fascinated by it (if someone can be fascinated by something so destructive and tragic.) My grandfather, who was illiterate save being able to sign his name to a paycheck but could operate any piece of heavy equipment invented, traveled from Mississippi to Washington after it happened to help with the cleanup. He kept a jar of ashes from it in a Mason jar for several years until, unfortunately, their house burned down in the mid-80’s. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks Leah :-) Yes, it's odd how the American videos (excepting Jackie Kennedy) don't do well, as about half my audience is from the US. I'm not very familiar with the Mt St. Helen's eruption I'm afraid, but that was lovely of your grandfather to go help with the clean-up and I'm really sorry to hear about your grandparents' house burning down. That's awful.
@@HistoryCalling I think maybe we’re so familiar with our own history that we enjoy learning about other places more often than not. As for me, I like older history, and since we are young comparatively, that draws me to other areas of world history.
Apparently the mistress of George I also maybe have had a hand in the disappearance of the Count having supposedly notified the parties whom seemed to be charged with that particular purpose. And supposedly physically present too at the time.
I know Königsmark, it is I think a little more known in Germany. As a German, I think your pronunciation was great. I really appreciate your effort in this. 👍 As long as you keep making these history videos, I'll be watching. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much. I can't tell you the stress I suffer trying to pronounce words (usually names) in other languages. It's always nice to know I did well with something as anytime it's not perfect, someone in the comments jumps down my throat about it.
First of all, I am thinking of you today and the pronouncement of Charles III at Hillsborough. The Province has a particular resonance to the Charles's and less resonance to the interregnum which was particularly challenging for you. You may have noticed King Charles relinquishing his titles of Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall to William. He is now king and monarch but be assured as monarch he is now also a Duke, as a Lancastrian I would like to point this out to anyone, he now has inherited the Lancastrian inheritance which befits the monarchy and has more or less since 1399. Following in the steps, amongst others, of John of Gaunt and Henry V as dual monarch and duke. He has his own Chancellor sitting in the Cabinet. I look forward to your work on Blanche. 🙂 As for King George I, well it's a bit late for me getting into the 1700's but all I can say his relationship was particularly Baroque. Thanks. Regards, Titus. "Carolus Rex".
I'd heard of them through the discovery, in my teens, of the historical fiction novels of Jean Plaidy. They imbued me with a love of mediaeval royalty that persists to this day, 40 years later.
Never heard of these people. As we know women were always treated badly during this time. I think many times of Katherine Howard, so young & died. Thank you for this interesting video. Condolences for the Passing of Queen Elizabeth II. I still find it amazing she worked until her death.
Yes, Sophia Dorothea and the Count really didn't think through what they were doing, though as you say, the double standards must have been hard to take.
Hugs to the yorkie! We recently lived through the sad passing of our 16-year old Bette. The good news: our new schnauzer puppy, Penny. I think she's too young to be aware of the Queen. Be well!
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you for sharing some of your expertise on the 18th century! This would make a terrific movie, ideally something a bit off-balance like the black comedy, "The Favourite." The long imprisonment seems a bit less horrific, given the large budget allocated to Sophia Dorothea's care. I like to imagine that she did something akin to Shakespeare's Richard II: I have been studying how I may compare This prison where I live unto the world: And for because the world is populous And here is not a creature but myself, I cannot do it; yet I’ll hammer it out.
Other people have told me that there actually is a movie about it from 1948 with Stewart Gardiner (I hadn't heard of it myself, but now wish I'd mentioned it in the video).
Apparently there is a 1948 film about it with Stewart Gardiner (which I hadn't heard of, or I would have mentioned it here). Still, it seems like time for a remake. :-)
I know, right? Like, where is my Georgian fun? (There is a show coming out about Queen Charlotte to be fair, on Netflix, but I don't think it's going to be historically accurate).
I don't remember ever reading of this. Interesting. Thanks. The lovers do seem naive ... but that can be one of the consequences of love as we all know ... our judgment is influenced by emotion. Still.. killing the Prince seems excessive. I suspect most of us know/believe that affairs are doomed by nature. So one would think ..sending the Prince off on Campaign or some mission would de enough to disrupt the affair. Killing a "Great" man is bound to piss off someone. I wonder if one of his frustrated loners/bankers was the more likely culprit.?? Ah yes ,more to contemplate while sipping morning Tea. Thanks again.
@@HistoryCalling kinder for you maybe. I'd rather be told my true love died than accepted a bribe to abandon me. Don't forget he liked to live above his means and was deep in debt . Love don't cost a thing but it also don't pay the rent.
Given Sophia's families response I wouldn't be surprised if they were a party to the execution of her lover they certainly obviously agreed to the divorce and its terms probably under the condition that they keep her out of society.
I like Melusina. Although she absolutely benefited materially, she wanted George, not just to be queen (as so many ambitious women did throughout history). Seems theirs was a real love story.
It's a bit more complicated than that. George and Sophia's fathers were brothers and the marriage would unite the family lands. The breakdown of the marriage affected Europe considering the support of Hanover being thrown behind the Holy Roman Empire in the Great Alliance against Louis XIV of France. So it wasn't simply an unhappy couple or even of local Hanoverian politics. A huge amount of property, vast wealth, and ultimately the throne of England and the fate of Europe rested in part on this union. Even if Sophia had lived apart from her husband and had a lover, that might have been tolerated (it was for years, as rumors of the affair were talked about openly). But Sophia wanted to leave her husband and the country and tried to find a way to wrest her valuable inheritance away from George's control. That could not be tolerated. She was naive or chose to be blind to the reality of her situation, but love and desperation will do that. To us, it's terribly unfair. It was unfair of her father to negotiate that marriage contract that gave her husband absolute control of her finances. It was unfair that they gave her the impression that agreeing to give up all in the divorce might gain her her freedom. Yet it was not just out of spite. There were bigger considerations than personal ones. Such was the life of a 17th century princess. She might have been a happier woman had her parents not fought so hard to give her a royal rank.
I heard a little about this affair in Nancy Goldstone's biography of Sophia, George's mother- Daughters of the Winter Queen. Fascinating read! (But get the physical book. The narrator for the audiobook was awful)
Isn't it baffling how one man can have total neglect and disdain for his wife, while another man thinks the same woman is the most wonderful thing on earth. It's interesting to me how two people have completely opposite feelings of attraction towards the same woman.
I agree. I don't think anyone could ever understand for instance why the then Prince Charles wasn't more enamoured by Princess Diana. I suppose they just had a big age gap and few shared interests.
I was watching A video on the Tudor Podcast in regards to Henry Fitzroy's mother and the question that was asked was:If Henry would have lived do you think he would have been added to the line of Succession ? I would love to hear what are your thoughts on it.
Erm, I doubt it. Once Henry VIII had Edward VI I don't think he'd have looked at Fitzroy as a successor given that there had never been any pretence that he'd been married to Bessie Blount. You never know though. Perhaps he would have put him into the 1543 Act of Succession after Edward and before Mary and Elizabeth.
I would have thought that Henry was such an ego maniac that he would see an illegitimate child of his as having a superior claim than any legitimate progeny of anyone else (The Stuarts or the Greys). In any event his view on his own children's legitimacy was slwayz subject to his whims!
And here I always thought of the Hanoverians as staid and stodgy guys until George the Third's sons. Very interesting. I can't help wondering if your vid on the Scottish Crown Jewels has received more views in light of recent events. It was interesting to see the crown on Her Majesty's coffin the other day. RIP.
I get the impression that it was easier to get a divorce in the German territories than it was in England or in other parts of Europe, especially when the ruling prince was in favor of the divorce taking place. A number of German royal marriages ended in divorce in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
George I's treatment of Sophia Dorothea was bitterly resented by his children, and probably provided the impetus for the horrendous relationship between George I and George II. The Hanoverian royal family was famous for its bitter father-son relationships, and Sophia Dorothea's imprisonment may have been the catalyst. Sadly, her imprisonment was recapitulated in the life of her great-granddaughter, Caroline Matilda, daughter of George I's son Frederick, Prince of Wales, and queen consort of Denmark. Having been convicted of adultery, in 1772 Caroline was exiled from Denmark to the same city of Celle, where she too remained for the rest of her life, never seeing her children again. When she died, she was buried in Stadtkirche St. Marien in Celle, not far from her great-grandmother's grave.
Philip von Konigsmarck's uncle Otto Wilhelm von Konigsmarck was the general, in service to Venice, who commanded his artillery to fire upon the Parthenon in 1687, knowing the Ottomans were using it for gunpowder storage, and thus blowing it up, after it had survived basically intact since antiquity. Philip's sister Aurora was the mistress of Augustus the Strong, Elector of Saxony and King of Poland, and their son would become the famous French general Maurice de Saxe.
That's for certain. Royal women especially were passed around from pillar to post, marriage contracts signed when they were only small children even babies, and their feelings never taken into account when husbands were chosen for them. They were told what to do...basically, put up and shut up.
They always look clean in their portrait paintings but how did they really keep their clothes and body clean? What did they use for body soap and laundry soap?
Clothes could be replaced of course, but for cleaning they still had hot water and things like rose water to make them smell better. I'd need to do additional research to tell you more than that I'm afraid. It's not something I know much about.
Then there's then-Prince Charles and Princess Diana and the third person who is now Queen consort Camilla. I think my favorite royalty story is how Edward 8th said FU to his royal life, gave it all up to marry a commoner.
Poor Queen Anne Stuart had to live in the shadow of all the many accomplishments of Sophia, the Electress of Hanover. Sophia was attractive, intelligent, popular, well-spoken, well-read, corresponded with intellectuals, spry for her age, and the mother of a whole bunch of children, including seven sons. The late king, William of Orange knew her and liked her. Sophia was eager, ready and waiting to assume the throne of England after the increasingly sickly Anne. Some British politicians wanted Sophia to move to England to be ready to take the throne, but Anne wasn't having it. Sophia was old enough to be Anne's mother and had been courted by Anne's grandfather, Charles I. Sophia died two months before Anne, so, in the end, Anne got the last word.
I know. Poor old Sophia. She JUST missed being the Queen of Great Britain. I'll bet she'd have been raging if she knew Anne only outlived her by such a short period of time.
It was Anne's uncle, Charles II, who wanted to marry his cousin, Sophia, when he was a penny less exile. He also was seeking the hand of the fabulously wealthy Anne Marie Louise d'Orleans who was also his cousin on his mother's side. I believe she only considered Louis XIV to be good enough for her. Later he lowered his sights and pursued the niece of Cardinal Mazarin, Hortense Mancini, but the Cardinal squashed that as was just an exile. Ironically many years later she was his mistress.
Our thoughts are with you on this very special day for Northern Ireland with a visit by a king, the first for decades. This will be unforgettable for you. Still hard to believe 7 days ago we were ruled by his dear mother fulfilling her duties. I'm behind Elizabeth the Great, are you. 🙂 Regards, Titus.
@@HistoryCalling After watching this movie when I was a teenager, I could never forget who Sophia Dorothea was. The movie was more sympathetic about her life.
One was actually his half-sister (and thankfully not also his mistress - they didn't mind a little bit of incest, like marrying his cousin, but it didn't extend to siblings).
@@HistoryCalling HC, We need to preserve the distinction between cousin marriage and incest. Cousin marriage, prohibited in varying degrees in varying times and places, does not (necessarily) have negative genetic consequences. Incest is defined as "sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other. • the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild." Cousin marriage can, depending on the cultural restrictions, fall into the first category, but it doesn't necessarily and certainly doesn't fall into the second.
It sounds like Sophia and the Count were naïve to think they could live their happily ever after in retrospect but at the time would it have seemed more possible? Sounds like a bonkers plan and she didn't seem to notice anything amiss about him being missing for a while- I'm wondering if she was caught up in being in love and blissfully unaware of how things were playing out, or if she was a bit clueless in general, or if there was reason for her to think it might work out?
I think she was just seeing what she wanted to see and not really paying enough attention to the reality of her situation. Their love letters were terribly indiscrete when you consider that they knew some of them were going missing and being read by others. I don't know why they thought they'd ever be allowed a happily ever after together, but they were both pretty reckless and naïve, just as you say and the plan was indeed bonkers.
It probably helps that Sophia Dorothea was from a Royal family while Anne Boelyn and Katherine Howard were from noble families and commoners ( at least compared to Royalty).
I suppose as a way of revenge. Also I think they tried to avoid a divorce at first but Sophia refused to reconcile with her husband (on the assumption that she was going to be able to run away with her lover).
On German pronounciation: "th" is pronounced as "t" in German (So Dorothea would be pronounced as Dorotea) but otherwise your pronounciation was quite good
That's totally fine :) I really like your videos and this one especially, because I am from Hannover and didn't know much about all of this, although all the places and titles are very familiar 😅
I think that Sophia deserved better. Was it naive to think that she can live with her lover and continue on happily? Yes, to be sure. But is it right to rid her from her children and only let her mother to visit her? Absolutely not. I'm disgusted. Absolutely disgusted.
He can have affairs but she can’t kind like Henry eighth can have mistresses but his wife’s can’t if they get caught having affair they get there heads get chopped off and in George’s case locked up until she dies lol 😂 the double standards is unbelievable 😂
Yup, the 16-18th centuries (and beyond) were not a good time to be female and royal. While I don't support her adultery of course, I'm fuming about how she was treated compared to George.
Just thought of another one. George III's sister Caroline Matilda was married to the mentally ill Christian VII of Denmark. She fell in love with his personal physician, Johann Friedrich Struensee, who gradually took on more power and acted as a kind of regent. She bore Struensee's daughter. However, he was German, not Swedish, but we won't be too picky... See A Royal Affair (2012) with Mads Mikkelsen as Struensee and Alicia Vikander as Caroline.
@@katjack2780 And that didn't end well either. Caroline Matilda also ended up imprisoned in Celle, and Struensee was brutally executed. The little girl thought to be Struensee's was accepted by the royal family and married well. Her daughter became queen consort of Denmark. The movie is definitely worth watching.
It's funny, but George I is usually glossed over by most historians. He seems to be generally dismissed because he couldn't speak English and apparently didn't spend much time in England. I'd no idea about his lack of a queen, although I do have a vague recollection of having heard the story before. I'd certainly never heard the scandalous story of his mistress holding court with him as queen in all but name. Since George was going to divorce her anyway, it seems absolutely barbaric to deprive her of her freedom and her love, especially since he was carrying on with his mistress the whole time. And to think that this reprobate of a king was preferred over all those Catholics that were in the line of succession ahead of him seems particularly perverse. I wonder if Sophia knew what she was giving up? Did she know that George was Heir apparent to England when they married?
I know. The Hanoverians in general are a bit glossed over which is a shame, as they're fascinating. It wasn't really clear until Queen Anne's son died in 1700 that the throne would go to them, so no, I don't think Sophia Dorothea would have realised she could have been Queen of England some day.
The Catholics ( and not as many as is usually suggested) who were passed over were not all an ethical improvement over their cousin George. At least one was a bigamist. George was far from the only prince who viewed the marital bonds as elastic personally, but not so for their wives.
Margarethe Gertrud (1701-1726), who married Albrecht Wolfgang, Count of Schaumburg-Lippe had one son who died without issue. The other sisters married, but neither had a child.
I think calling their love lives messy is a little bit melodramatic, they were two royals pressured into marrying for bloodlines who both, seemingly, met the loves of their lives after the fact. If this story played out today, they would have divorced, gone their separate ways and lived happily ever after with their preferred partners. It is only the context of the situation that turns this into a tragedy.
Hmm, we can agree to disagree here. I think years of infidelity on both sides, a murdered lover, a locked up Princess and a quasi-consort who was never acknowledged as a wife and whose children by the King had to be passed off as her nieces is very messy indeed.
@@claire2088 have to.agree Charles and Diana did simply divorce, and her lovers were not killed, and he didn't imprison her. and look at the ongoing ripples of that scandal!
Hi history calling I am a Muslim and I was going to ask my dad tells me that Spain was once a Muslim country was it a fully Muslims country or half divided with catholics and with Cathrine of Aragon family trying to kill them or something for example like Isabel of castle was she a horrible person who killed loads of Jews and Muslims in Spain love to know your answer thanks
Hi Raumann, I'm sorry I don't know anything about Spain's religious history other than the fact that it's been traditionally Catholic for many centuries. Probably Google could give you the answer you seek though.
Hello Raumaan, so, before Spain was a Muslim country, it was a Christian country (though likely mixed with a few pagan religions that still prevailed), in the 8th Century, the Iberian Peninsula was invaded by Muslims, and Christians escaped North to the Asturias (now northern Spain). The next hundred years were a continuing period of Christians and Muslims fighting, but also some peaceful periods during which they shared cultural aspects. Portugal eventually became a fully Christian country in 1143, when Dom Afonso Henriques signed a treaty with a Alfonso VII of Leon (one of the kingdoms which occupied modern day Spain), in which the latter recognised Portugal as its own country, independent from Leon. In Spain, there was a Christian expansion (the so called Christian Reconquest, which also occurred in Portugal, though it ended much sooner there), and smaller kingdoms like Leon, Castile, Aragon and Galiza shared a language and culture, but had different rulers. As for the Muslims, they migrated south, occupying what is now southern Spain. And so it stayed till the 15th century (though some of the kingdoms in northern Spain assimilated and became joint). Now we come to Isabella of Castile and her part in the Muslim persecution. Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon married, and ruled over their territories jointly, and once they died, their heir would rule over the whole of Spain. During their reign, the Muslims were expelled from Granada, to where they had fled. They created the Spanish Inquisition, however, Ferdinand’s part in the killing and torturing of Muslims (and Jews) was much bigger than that of Isabella. She wanted lighter punishment for non Christians, but was overruled by Ferdinand and others. So, if we were to call people terrible, Ferdinand would be the target (even in other aspects he strikes me as a piece of sh**). Hope this helped :)
@@lfgifu296 by the way I was going to ask a what if question what if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were never killed and instead they got annulment from Henry the 8th and were sent away and imagine if they were both still alive during Mary’s reign what would have happened in your opinion
As much as I understand that royal women having affairs greatly risked the royal bloodlines, surely once an heir had been born and the royal couple are no longer in a relationship, this shouldn’t be a concern anymore. There’s just no reason beyond pure ego on the husbands part why women shouldn’t engage in discreet affairs just like men had with any resulting children being considered illegitimate
I suppose their attitude was that the only son might die and the crown might end up going to a younger, illegitimate child. Also, they wouldn't want to be paying out huge dowries for daughters who weren't theirs. It was also just a matter of personal pride and a sense of entitlement. They didn't want people to think they'd been cuckolded even though they publicly cheated on their wives and expected them to just bear it.
Technically, Charles I. But if you take ‘executed’ to mean‘intentionally killed by another person’, it was George V. According to the records of his doctor, the king was intentionally given a huge overdose of morphine and cocaine specifically designed to kill him so his death could be reported in the morning newspaper
It seems that the English do not like taking names of monarchs that were not so good, i.e. John and Richard. We now see that Charles has kept his given name and is now Charles III. But, what about Charles I (executed for treason) and Charles II (died 1685)? I've heard that William may take the name of George when he ascends to the throne.
Hmm, I'd be surprised if William didn't just stick with William but time will tell I suppose. There have been other Prince Johns and Prince Richards in more recent times, but you're correct that the heir is never given those names. I don't think the royals would view Charles I's execution as legitimate though, so they probably wouldn't care about what the Cromwellians said about him.
@@edithengel2284 True. I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been another Richard. Agreed that Richard II and Richard III, weren't exactly the best, but Richard the Lionheart is still held in some esteem even though he almost bankrupted England and was only in England about 6 months of his reign. I think a modern Richard might give the name a good odor. Of course, I'm an American. But, I'm also something like 75% English ancestry. (Strong Irish, too.)
He and his wife did not get on very well. He was much older than she; she was incredibly devout, and had a tendency to hysteria. She objected to her sons having Protestant tutors, and couldn't see that if they ever had a chance to return to power, the princes would have to show themselves open to working with people of the Protestant faith.
What do you think of Sophia Dorothea’s treatment by her family? Let me know below and remember to check out my Patreon at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I'd hate to be under such a prolonged house arrest, regardless of how you kept yourself busy you'd still have way too much time to think about how you got there. I think she should have been given a more lenient situation, given that she agreed so readily to the divorce
I know the country is rightfully in mourning. 😢
However, maybe not give a running commentary but an explainer of the events not only to UK viewers but particularly viewers abroad on your channel. It's hopefully only a once-in-a-lifetime event but it is seismic.
We are a constitutional monarchy with an unwritten constitution so the sequence and rituals are real and vital but must be mystifying to those not used to them. Due to the 1707 Settlement the monarch changes religion from England to Scotland etc.
The Privy Council's Accession Council has never been made public before.
Westminster Hall, is one of the few remnants of the original Palace along with St. Margaret's Church and the Old Court to survive both major fires and the blitz.
Built by William II with a hammer-beam roof by Richard II, both monarchs renowned for little else., apart from Richard II inventing the handkerchief maybe, I believe it was the largest room North of the Alps when constructed.
Do you think Richard II wore a handkerchief in Westminster Hall? Now that would be something!
It still is a royal palace but not used as such. Westminster Abbey is a Royal Peculiar owned not by the Church of England but as the name implies,, the monarch. Please note the spiritual significance of the Cosmati Pavement inside which you may hear about as we approach the coronation of the new king.
On a personal note.
My parents indulged my history hobby and took me to Holyroodhouse Palace when I was a boy and saw the secret staircase Darnley and fellows used to get into Mary Queen of Scots' Bedchamber.
Did you ever go?
They took me to St. George's Chapel ~ Windsor to attend the annual St. George's Day Parade with the scouts hosted by Princess Margaret.
I wasn t here for the last coronation but do remember the last State Funeral of Winston Churchill.
Talking of Royal Peculiars were you aware of the Savoy Chapel? As the name implies it's at the Savoy, the palace of the astounding John of Gaunt and probably the most well-appointed palace in London until those whipscallions and ruffians burnt it down in the Peasants Revolt in1381, there's simply no accounting for some people.
On it's site Henry VIII built a hospital with its chapel. Sadly only the chapel survives and is used, it too is a Royal Peculiar. Because the land is owned by the Lancastrian Duchy, have I mentioned I'm a Lancastrian by the way 😉, King Charles has just inherited it from his dear mother.
God Save the King and may he live long!
"Carolus Rex".
Regards,
Titus.
Can you please make a good, long video or two about Charles II of England? He’s my favorite King of England and there aren’t nearly enough good RUclips videos about him. 🏴 🇬🇧 👑
Great video, as usual! I know they tend to get less engagement, but I always love your non-Tudor videos. I'm not a history scholar, so this story is one I'd never heard and probably would not have done if not for this. Thank you for all your hard work :)
Thank you. I love my breaks from the Tudors too. I just wish other people would give different parts of history a try too. They don't know what they're missing!
It really does seem to have been a royal tradition to have as many mistresses as possible, but the double standards always make me shake my head. Double standards make no sense to me. What’s bad for one is bad for both I’d say.I suppose at least they’d secured an heir first. 🙄
It’s dreadful what they did to Sophie. They punish her, yet George is given a kingdom. Utterly disgusting and barmy!
Also to give you a little chuckle…
I was watching this, zoned out on what you was saying and when you mentioned Henry the Eighth and his portrait suddenly moved, for some reason it made me jump. I was nearly Henry’s last victim! Haha! 😂
Yes, fidelity wasn't a big thing for Kings at that point. Sorry for making you jump. The last thing I want to do is start killing off my subscribers! :-)
I first heard of this story from watching an old British classic from 1948 called "Saraband." It was very well-written and had Joan Greenwood (of the mellifluous voice) playing Sophia Dorothea and Stewart Granger as Koeningsmarck. He later said that it was one of the few roles he had that he was most proud of. Lots of other good actors of the time are in it and it was the first Ealing Studios film to be shot in color.
It even got an Academy Award nomination for Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Color. Really worth searching out.
Thanks Kat. I've never seen that one, but I'll look it up. :-)
As good as Scaramouche?
@@English_Dawn Better. Even though Granger may have dismissed his swashbuckling roles, at least he cared enough to hone his fencing skills and became quite proficient. But he wasn't quite up to the gold standard -- Basil Rathbone, who was a two-time British Army fencing champ. And Rathbone complimented Tyrone Power's fencing in The Mark of Zorro, saying "he could have fenced Errol Flynn into a cocked hat."
I have wanted to see this film for so long. Any idea of where it is available?
Thank you HC superb as always, I have heard of this scandalous affair, I have to say she was treated more than harshly and to be kept a virtual prisoner to not see her children very cruel in my opinion, as for the count I believe he was certainly murderd.
Thank you. Yes, I agree. He never made it out of that palace alive.
I’ve commented about this before and I’m sure that, At some point, I’ll comment about it again- But, No Matter How Bad of a day I’m having, As soon as I click on a History Calling video and hear the Happy Little Tune, My mood instantly improves and I Can’t Help but bob my head left and right! So, Thank You History Calling for Another Amazing Video and a theme song that Always Lifts my Spirits!! Also, realizing that your country is in mourning due to the Heartbreaking Loss of her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, I send my Deepest Condolences and wish you and your family peace and comfort during this Very Sad Time- Wishing you and yours the Very Best, Stefanie
Thank you so much Stefanie for your very kind words. I'm glad the tune peps you up (though I should perhaps warn you that I'm working on a video on Queen Elizabeth at the moment and I think I'm going to forgo the start-up music for once as I actually think it's too peppy for that particular video).
I loved this one! I almost think it’s the best one yet. I’ve either read about or watched something about the “missing” Count and the search for him, but it didn’t involve this scandal. So sad the Princess couldn’t see her children. The hypocrisy concerning her ex husband’s behavior is awful. It’s a shame the Count and Princess couldn’t have been allowed to be together.
Thanks for another great video.
Thanks Anna. It's not a super well-known story, but I've always found it interesting.
@@HistoryCalling i hope you do get up there. My gut feeling/intuition says it will as she does great content and researche behind it, also being a legitimate historian. I hope she gets up there with history tea time with lindsay 😇
As a history nerd, I was aware of this scandal. Absolute definition of a double standard
Definitely. Nothing ever happened to George of course for his decades of infidelity.
I, as well, have heard of it.
Yes, though there is a certain logic to it as it was important to know if the Queen’s babies belong to the King. It looks like the King only bothered to tell her to break it off because she had made it so public-kind of like the Duchess of Devonshire.
Indeed, which is why Anne Boleyn's supposed infidelities were considered treason, because if true they could have altered the succession and caused the throne to pass to a child not of the King's blood.
Hello History Calling…what an interesting story! I didn’t know about this. Thank you for putting this together. I have been sad for all of you. I liked the Queen. Her sense of duty was remarkable. It must be very difficult for all who have only known her as their monarch. No matter queen or subject, rich or poor, of any faith or nationality…to those who call them “granny, gran, grandmother or nana, she will be missed and loved for her love to them. I miss my grandmother still. God bless you all.
Thanks Amy. Yes, it is an odd feeling to know that she's gone. I'm putting together a video on her at the moment and I keep finding myself welling up. Also, like you, I miss my grandmothers too (and grandfathers of course). I wish they'd been able to live to 96 and be in pretty good health until nearly the end.
@@HistoryCalling ❤️
I had almost forgotten about Sophie Dorothea. Since I grew up in Celle, I first heard about her in school, though of course a somewhat cleaner version. ;-) Thank you for this video and most especially the correct pronounciation of my hometown!
Is “Celle” actually spelled as Zelle?
@@robvig60 No, it's Celle, but the C is usually spoken rather sharp, like the Z in German. I assume some misspellings in some of the pictures we saw in the video go back to that issue.
Yes, I do end up having different spellings sometimes because of the vagaries of old spellings in original sources, but I would spell it Celle.
Thanks Diana and I'm glad I got the pronunciation correct. I listened to various pronunciation guides online, but you just never know if it's really right until the video is out and the comments start coming in.
Now that's was a nice and very interesting piece of juicy scandal. Well-presented and researched thank you.
Thank you. I like to remind people that it wasn't just the Tudors who could be scandalous. :-)
This channel is so calming and so interesting at the same time. I really enjoy watching after a rough day at work. Thank you 😌
Thank you. I hope your next day is work is better too.
Its her lovely voice and elegant accent. Very beautiful girl 🙂
I'd never heard of this scandal but honestly it doesn't surprise me. The Hanoverians were a mess when it came to family affairs. Sons, fathers, mothers, and daughters all seemed to hate each other so it's not that shocking that there were some pretty rocky marriages too besides the obvious one of George IV and Caroline of Brunswick. I think this one makes that one look tame tho because George IV never actually divorced then locked up his wife.
Yes, the Hanoverians were renowned for fathers disliking sons in particular and vice versa. They just didn't seem able learn from the mistakes of earlier generations. George II and Caroline of Ansbach were a happy couple though.
They still are. The current head of the House of Hanover is currently fighting with his two sons.
Loved this one!
An interesting episode would be looking at names of monarchs. For example- that they can choose their own names, and names that haven’t been repeated. For example, King John. There’s not been a King Henry since VIII, etc.
We almost got A King Henry the 9th in the form of Henry Stuart but he died before he could take the throne.
I was just thinking about the almost Henry IX when I read Savage Darksider's comment. Yes they can pick their own names, though that is more of a recent development. Henry VIII and Elizabeth I didn't have any middle names to potentially use. Names like John have been reused within the family, but never for the heir. I suppose they don't want the heir to have any negative associations attached to them. People were always comparing the two Elizabeths for instance, even though they had nothing in common beyond becoming Queen at 25. It would have been awkward if EII had been named after someone bad.
@@HistoryCalling I love that more recent royalty offers MANY options in the way of middle names, then. I didn’t realize EI and Henry VIII didn’t have middle names. I didn’t think about that. (Though my own grandmother didn’t have one, either.)
@@HistoryCalling At one point King Edward I oldest living child was a John [ Edward's grandfather ], his older brother Henry having died. After John's death, Edward's heir was Prince Alfonso! Presumably named after one of his mother's family [Eleanor of Castile] . He died aged 11 years and then Edward seems to have relented to his own name being used and the future Edward II was born.
As always another great video, I thoroughly enjoy everything you post, and find myself longing for the next one as soon as I’m done! The Tudor period has always been my favourite to research, I’m very excited for the Margaret Beaufort video you have planned, but I would absolutely love for you to do some on Queen Victoria and Albert, and there children. Would that be something you hope to do in the future? Thankyou for all the hardwork and effort you put into all your videos, the attention to detail is outstanding and much appreciated, and sets you apart from
the countless other historical videos online. Best wishes, and I look forward to your next video. JT
Sophia and Philip would have been fodder for TMZ and the tabloids had they lived today; it would have been scandalous but most likely without a sinister disappearance. The injustice of the double standard is outrageous, of course. Just wrong on so many levels. I enjoyed my second cup of joe while listening to you @ 7 AM California time; an unusual treat for my Sunday mornings. Well done, HC. Be well. 🙏🏼
Yes, this would put some of the modern royal scandals into context. If it wasn't for the fact that I don't want to spend my Sunday afternoons answering comments on a regular basis (plus I'm quite often out of the house), I would put the videos out at this time all the time as Sunday seems to be a popular day for RUclipsrs to post. Unfortunately it just doesn't suit me very well. :-(
can’t say i’ve heard of this but right up my alley! thank you always for your content 🙌🏻🙌🏻
My pleasure!! :-)
Been longing for this since friday!
Though I appreciate the not posting as a sign of respect for the late Queen :)
Haven’t watched it yet (it only just came out) but I’m sure it’s gonna be every bit as good as the others!
Thank you. Honestly I almost forgot it was coming out today. It's odd to have it release on a Sunday.
@@HistoryCalling happens to the best of us🙌 It did come out very punctually though!!
Thx for spilling the tea 🍵☕
No problem 😊
Thank you for delving into the Georgian era of British history!
You're welcome :-)
Woo Hoo! Georgian family drama! My new favorite historical reading niche'. Thank You!
You're welcome. Enjoy the reading :-)
Lovely channel with good information!
Thank you kindly :-)
I absolutely love your videos! I rewatch videos throughout the week to hold me over until Friday. 😊 I know you’ve mentioned in the past that your American videos don’t seem to be doing so well, but if you ever decide to try another, I would like to suggest one regarding Mt. St. Helens. I’ve always been fascinated by it (if someone can be fascinated by something so destructive and tragic.) My grandfather, who was illiterate save being able to sign his name to a paycheck but could operate any piece of heavy equipment invented, traveled from Mississippi to Washington after it happened to help with the cleanup. He kept a jar of ashes from it in a Mason jar for several years until, unfortunately, their house burned down in the mid-80’s. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks Leah :-) Yes, it's odd how the American videos (excepting Jackie Kennedy) don't do well, as about half my audience is from the US. I'm not very familiar with the Mt St. Helen's eruption I'm afraid, but that was lovely of your grandfather to go help with the clean-up and I'm really sorry to hear about your grandparents' house burning down. That's awful.
@@HistoryCalling I think maybe we’re so familiar with our own history that we enjoy learning about other places more often than not. As for me, I like older history, and since we are young comparatively, that draws me to other areas of world history.
Apparently the mistress of George I also maybe have had a hand in the disappearance of the Count having supposedly notified the parties whom seemed to be charged with that particular purpose. And supposedly physically present too at the time.
Great job thanks
Thanks Nathan. It's always nice to get out of the 16th century for a while! :-)
Oh those kooky Hanoverians! 🤦🏼♀️. I knew George I had 2 wives but did not know the full story. Great video!
Yes, the Hanoverians get overlooked sometimes as people are distracted by the Tudors and Plantagenets, but they had plenty of scandal too.
I'm a new subscriber,I love your channel, very informative, thank you.
Thanks Shirley and welcome to the channel :-)
There is so much unnecessary drama in the Royals. It’s literally always some things going on. Makes learning British royal history so much fun!
ooo love to get a bit of Hanoverian, cant wait to watch!
Thank you for another very interesting video.
Glad you enjoyed it :-)
I know Königsmark, it is I think a little more known in Germany.
As a German, I think your pronunciation was great. I really appreciate your effort in this. 👍
As long as you keep making these history videos, I'll be watching. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much. I can't tell you the stress I suffer trying to pronounce words (usually names) in other languages. It's always nice to know I did well with something as anytime it's not perfect, someone in the comments jumps down my throat about it.
Great video history I enjoyed it can't wait to see more soon. Your videos are always enjoyable and relaxing have a great day 😀
Thanks Michelle. You too :-)
First of all, I am thinking of you today and the pronouncement of Charles III at Hillsborough. The Province has a particular resonance to the Charles's and less resonance to the interregnum which was particularly challenging for you.
You may have noticed King Charles relinquishing his titles of Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall to William.
He is now king and monarch but be assured as monarch he is now also a Duke, as a Lancastrian I would like to point this out to anyone, he now has inherited the Lancastrian inheritance which befits the monarchy and has more or less since 1399. Following in the steps, amongst others, of John of Gaunt and Henry V as dual monarch and duke.
He has his own Chancellor sitting in the Cabinet.
I look forward to your work on Blanche. 🙂
As for King George I, well it's a bit late for me getting into the 1700's but all I can say his relationship was particularly Baroque.
Thanks.
Regards,
Titus.
"Carolus Rex".
Thank you.
I'd heard of them through the discovery, in my teens, of the historical fiction novels of Jean Plaidy. They imbued me with a love of mediaeval royalty that persists to this day, 40 years later.
Very interesting and information
Thanks Ace :-)
Never heard of these people. As we know women were always treated badly during this time. I think many times of Katherine Howard, so young & died. Thank you for this interesting video. Condolences for the Passing of Queen Elizabeth II. I still find it amazing she worked until her death.
Thanks Cindy. Yes, it wasn't a good time to be a woman :-(
so many double standards - but an affair with a Queen is always dangerous - not many of their lovers survive
Yes, Sophia Dorothea and the Count really didn't think through what they were doing, though as you say, the double standards must have been hard to take.
My Yorkie has been sad ever since he heard the death of the Queen;he loved the Queen. He thought she was his grandmother.
Yes, it's a very sad time. I'm putting together a video on her at the moment and I keep welling up.
Hugs to the yorkie! We recently lived through the sad passing of our 16-year old Bette. The good news: our new schnauzer puppy, Penny. I think she's too young to be aware of the Queen. Be well!
@@stephencarrillo5905 My Yorkie also loved Otto Von Habsburg.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you for sharing some of your expertise on the 18th century! This would make a terrific movie, ideally something a bit off-balance like the black comedy, "The Favourite." The long imprisonment seems a bit less horrific, given the large budget allocated to Sophia Dorothea's care. I like to imagine that she did something akin to Shakespeare's Richard II:
I have been studying how I may compare
This prison where I live unto the world:
And for because the world is populous
And here is not a creature but myself,
I cannot do it; yet I’ll hammer it out.
Other people have told me that there actually is a movie about it from 1948 with Stewart Gardiner (I hadn't heard of it myself, but now wish I'd mentioned it in the video).
@@HistoryCalling We'll have to look for that!
If Hollywood ever gets tired of rehashing the Tudor story (ha!), this would make for a fabulous movie!
Apparently there is a 1948 film about it with Stewart Gardiner (which I hadn't heard of, or I would have mentioned it here). Still, it seems like time for a remake. :-)
A good example of the double standards back then. Sophia was treated rather harshly. 😱
Yes, her treatment was abominable. After all, it's not like she was the one who's killed anyone.
Back now, more like. This still goes on, just not in the daylight.
It irks me that the Georges and all their drama exists and yet entertainment executives keep green lighting yet another Tudor miniseries!
I know, right? Like, where is my Georgian fun? (There is a show coming out about Queen Charlotte to be fair, on Netflix, but I don't think it's going to be historically accurate).
@@HistoryCalling Me neither. I genuinely like Bridgerton, but I put it in the “historical-ish” category.
I don't remember ever reading of this. Interesting. Thanks. The lovers do seem naive ... but that can be one of the consequences of love as we all know ... our judgment is influenced by emotion. Still.. killing the Prince seems excessive. I suspect most of us know/believe that affairs are doomed by nature. So one would think ..sending the Prince off on Campaign or some mission would de enough to disrupt the affair. Killing a "Great" man is bound to piss off someone. I wonder if one of his frustrated loners/bankers was the more likely culprit.?? Ah yes ,more to contemplate while sipping morning Tea. Thanks again.
I think the count accepted a large amount of money to disappear and never speak to Dorthea again.
Just nobody wanted to tell her that
Although I personally believe he was killed, that's certainly a kinder ending that I would much rather had happened.
@@HistoryCalling kinder for you maybe. I'd rather be told my true love died than accepted a bribe to abandon me.
Don't forget he liked to live above his means and was deep in debt .
Love don't cost a thing but it also don't pay the rent.
Thanks!
THANK YOU so much for your generous donation to the channel. I hope you enjoyed hearing about this Hanoverian scandal :-)
Given Sophia's families response I wouldn't be surprised if they were a party to the execution of her lover they certainly obviously agreed to the divorce and its terms probably under the condition that they keep her out of society.
What a tangled mess. Although I'm distantly related to royalty, I'm glad its very distant!
Yup, it sure was. Poor Sophia Dorothea though.
I like Melusina. Although she absolutely benefited materially, she wanted George, not just to be queen (as so many ambitious women did throughout history).
Seems theirs was a real love story.
Marriage should be for love, and not for convenience.
Absolutely. A love match likely would have avoided all the problems this couple had.
It would be interesting, if possible, to hear your video on Rasputin please.
I might get to him in the future, but in the meantime I do have a video on the fate of the Romanovs if that would be of interest.
That was very interesting. The treatment from her family was terrible, seeing how they both cheated.
I know. The double standard is just infuriating.
It's a bit more complicated than that. George and Sophia's fathers were brothers and the marriage would unite the family lands. The breakdown of the marriage affected Europe considering the support of Hanover being thrown behind the Holy Roman Empire in the Great Alliance against Louis XIV of France.
So it wasn't simply an unhappy couple or even of local Hanoverian politics. A huge amount of property, vast wealth, and ultimately the throne of England and the fate of Europe rested in part on this union. Even if Sophia had lived apart from her husband and had a lover, that might have been tolerated (it was for years, as rumors of the affair were talked about openly). But Sophia wanted to leave her husband and the country and tried to find a way to wrest her valuable inheritance away from George's control. That could not be tolerated. She was naive or chose to be blind to the reality of her situation, but love and desperation will do that.
To us, it's terribly unfair. It was unfair of her father to negotiate that marriage contract that gave her husband absolute control of her finances. It was unfair that they gave her the impression that agreeing to give up all in the divorce might gain her her freedom. Yet it was not just out of spite. There were bigger considerations than personal ones. Such was the life of a 17th century princess. She might have been a happier woman had her parents not fought so hard to give her a royal rank.
I heard a little about this affair in Nancy Goldstone's biography of Sophia, George's mother- Daughters of the Winter Queen. Fascinating read! (But get the physical book. The narrator for the audiobook was awful)
Isn't it baffling how one man can have total neglect and disdain for his wife, while another man thinks the same woman is the most wonderful thing on earth. It's interesting to me how two people have completely opposite feelings of attraction towards the same woman.
I agree. I don't think anyone could ever understand for instance why the then Prince Charles wasn't more enamoured by Princess Diana. I suppose they just had a big age gap and few shared interests.
I was watching A video on the Tudor Podcast in regards to Henry Fitzroy's mother and the question that was asked was:If Henry would have lived do you think he would have been added to the line of Succession ? I would love to hear what are your thoughts on it.
Erm, I doubt it. Once Henry VIII had Edward VI I don't think he'd have looked at Fitzroy as a successor given that there had never been any pretence that he'd been married to Bessie Blount. You never know though. Perhaps he would have put him into the 1543 Act of Succession after Edward and before Mary and Elizabeth.
I would have thought that Henry was such an ego maniac that he would see an illegitimate child of his as having a superior claim than any legitimate progeny of anyone else (The Stuarts or the Greys). In any event his view on his own children's legitimacy was slwayz subject to his whims!
And here I always thought of the Hanoverians as staid and stodgy guys until George the Third's sons. Very interesting. I can't help wondering if your vid on the Scottish Crown Jewels has received more views in light of recent events. It was interesting to see the crown on Her Majesty's coffin the other day. RIP.
It's had a bit of an uptick, yes, as has the one on the Cullinan diamond.
I get the impression that it was easier to get a divorce in the German territories than it was in England or in other parts of Europe, especially when the ruling prince was in favor of the divorce taking place. A number of German royal marriages ended in divorce in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
Yes, a little bit, though you could also get a divorce in Scotland from the 16th century onwards.
This sounds a lot like modern-day Saudi Arabia. But she wasn’t murdered, he was.
George I's treatment of Sophia Dorothea was bitterly resented by his children, and probably provided the impetus for the horrendous relationship between George I and George II. The Hanoverian royal family was famous for its bitter father-son relationships, and Sophia Dorothea's imprisonment may have been the catalyst.
Sadly, her imprisonment was recapitulated in the life of her great-granddaughter, Caroline Matilda, daughter of George I's son Frederick, Prince of Wales, and queen consort of Denmark. Having been convicted of adultery, in 1772 Caroline was exiled from Denmark to the same city of Celle, where she too remained for the rest of her life, never seeing her children again. When she died, she was buried in Stadtkirche St. Marien in Celle, not far from her great-grandmother's grave.
Philip von Konigsmarck's uncle Otto Wilhelm von Konigsmarck was the general, in service to Venice, who commanded his artillery to fire upon the Parthenon in 1687, knowing the Ottomans were using it for gunpowder storage, and thus blowing it up, after it had survived basically intact since antiquity. Philip's sister Aurora was the mistress of Augustus the Strong, Elector of Saxony and King of Poland, and their son would become the famous French general Maurice de Saxe.
Boy, sure was tough being a woman back then.
That's for certain. Royal women especially were passed around from pillar to post, marriage contracts signed when they were only small children even babies, and their feelings never taken into account when husbands were chosen for them. They were told what to do...basically, put up and shut up.
Yup, it was no joke and the double standard around behaviour was no unfair.
To me, her treatment shows the persistent insecurity of males when it came to ensuring the succession. Thank you for the video!
Yes, she did no worse than him. The whole episode shows her husband and father-in-law/uncle in a very poor light indeed.
Poor woman. How badly women were treated
Yes, it's a wonder she didn't crack up from being locked away like that for so long.
They always look clean in their portrait paintings but how did they really keep their clothes and body clean? What did they use for body soap and laundry soap?
Clothes could be replaced of course, but for cleaning they still had hot water and things like rose water to make them smell better. I'd need to do additional research to tell you more than that I'm afraid. It's not something I know much about.
@@HistoryCalling now that you mention it, one of the things they did use was borax with hot water to wash their clothes.
Hello to history calling from Bea
Hi Bea :-)
Then there's then-Prince Charles and Princess Diana and the third person who is now Queen consort Camilla. I think my favorite royalty story is how Edward 8th said FU to his royal life, gave it all up to marry a commoner.
I'm just writing up my script for the Elizabeth II video I'm working on at the moment and have been mentioning the abdication crisis.
@@HistoryCalling I knew you were doing one on the late Queen, had a hunch. :) Can't wait to see it, I'm sure it'll be great.
@@Moebian73 Edward The 8th wasn't all that bright. He gave up the throne for A commoner who didn't really love him back.
It was a big huge mess. he loved her, she loved her ex still writing lovey dovey letters to him, etc etc etc.
Poor Queen Anne Stuart had to live in the shadow of all the many accomplishments of Sophia, the Electress of Hanover. Sophia was attractive, intelligent, popular, well-spoken, well-read, corresponded with intellectuals, spry for her age, and the mother of a whole bunch of children, including seven sons. The late king, William of Orange knew her and liked her. Sophia was eager, ready and waiting to assume the throne of England after the increasingly sickly Anne. Some British politicians wanted Sophia to move to England to be ready to take the throne, but Anne wasn't having it. Sophia was old enough to be Anne's mother and had been courted by Anne's grandfather, Charles I. Sophia died two months before Anne, so, in the end, Anne got the last word.
I know. Poor old Sophia. She JUST missed being the Queen of Great Britain. I'll bet she'd have been raging if she knew Anne only outlived her by such a short period of time.
It was Anne's uncle, Charles II, who wanted to marry his cousin, Sophia, when he was a penny less exile. He also was seeking the hand of the fabulously wealthy Anne Marie Louise d'Orleans who was also his cousin on his mother's side. I believe she only considered Louis XIV to be good enough for her. Later he lowered his sights and pursued the niece of Cardinal Mazarin, Hortense Mancini, but the Cardinal squashed that as was just an exile. Ironically many years later she was his mistress.
@@neilbuckley1613 Correct!
Our thoughts are with you on this very special day for Northern Ireland with a visit by a king, the first for decades. This will be unforgettable for you.
Still hard to believe 7 days ago we were ruled by his dear mother fulfilling her duties.
I'm behind Elizabeth the Great, are you. 🙂
Regards,
Titus.
Yes, I like the name 'Elizabeth the Great', though I see it's getting some pushback and some are suggesting 'Elizabeth the faithful' instead.
This is why you keep your affairs with quiet. You can't be brazen with things like this.
If only they'd realised that. Had they been more discrete things might have gone very differently.
The 1948 British film, Saraband, with Stewart Granger and Joan Greenwood.
I wasn't aware of this film actually, but I just looked it up as someone else mentioned it too. I'll have to watch it at some point.
@@HistoryCalling After watching this movie when I was a teenager, I could never forget who Sophia Dorothea was. The movie was more sympathetic about her life.
I have read books about this scandel🇺🇲
I knew of Sophia Dorothea
He had two mistresses they were known as The Maypole and the Elephant on account of their different builds.
One was actually his half-sister (and thankfully not also his mistress - they didn't mind a little bit of incest, like marrying his cousin, but it didn't extend to siblings).
Wow thank you for that.... i had no idea that is what comes from reading too much Jean Plaidy when i was a kid! @@HistoryCalling
@@HistoryCalling HC, We need to preserve the distinction between cousin marriage and incest. Cousin marriage, prohibited in varying degrees in varying times and places, does not (necessarily) have negative genetic consequences. Incest is defined as "sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
• the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild." Cousin marriage can, depending on the cultural restrictions, fall into the first category, but it doesn't necessarily and certainly doesn't fall into the second.
It sounds like Sophia and the Count were naïve to think they could live their happily ever after in retrospect but at the time would it have seemed more possible? Sounds like a bonkers plan and she didn't seem to notice anything amiss about him being missing for a while- I'm wondering if she was caught up in being in love and blissfully unaware of how things were playing out, or if she was a bit clueless in general, or if there was reason for her to think it might work out?
I think she was just seeing what she wanted to see and not really paying enough attention to the reality of her situation. Their love letters were terribly indiscrete when you consider that they knew some of them were going missing and being read by others. I don't know why they thought they'd ever be allowed a happily ever after together, but they were both pretty reckless and naïve, just as you say and the plan was indeed bonkers.
👏🏻💖
He was lenient. I thought of Henry VIII too.⚔
Yes, though to be fair most people are lenient compared to him (which just shows how low he set the bar for how to act as a husband).
It probably helps that Sophia Dorothea was from a Royal family while Anne Boelyn and Katherine Howard were from noble families and commoners ( at least compared to Royalty).
I can't understand, if they were going to arrange a divorce anyway, why the families arranged the murder and imprisonment. How monstrously cruel!
I suppose as a way of revenge. Also I think they tried to avoid a divorce at first but Sophia refused to reconcile with her husband (on the assumption that she was going to be able to run away with her lover).
On German pronounciation: "th" is pronounced as "t" in German (So Dorothea would be pronounced as Dorotea) but otherwise your pronounciation was quite good
Ahh, I understand. As you can probably tell, I did very little German at school I'm afraid. :-)
That's totally fine :) I really like your videos and this one especially, because I am from Hannover and didn't know much about all of this, although all the places and titles are very familiar 😅
I think that Sophia deserved better. Was it naive to think that she can live with her lover and continue on happily? Yes, to be sure. But is it right to rid her from her children and only let her mother to visit her? Absolutely not. I'm disgusted. Absolutely disgusted.
I agree. She got a very rough deal and I'm unimpressed that her son didn't do more for her once he'd grown up.
Her family should have argued for her freedom
Her mother apparently tried but her father wanted nothing to do with her after her disgrace
He can have affairs but she can’t kind like Henry eighth can have mistresses but his wife’s can’t if they get caught having affair they get there heads get chopped off and in George’s case locked up until she dies lol 😂 the double standards is unbelievable 😂
Yup, the 16-18th centuries (and beyond) were not a good time to be female and royal. While I don't support her adultery of course, I'm fuming about how she was treated compared to George.
What is it with the female royalty of Europe and Swedish counts?
I think there's a reference here that I should be getting, but I'm missing it... (it's been a long few days in my defence).
@@HistoryCalling The only other one I can think of is Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette.
Just thought of another one. George III's sister Caroline Matilda was married to the mentally ill Christian VII of Denmark. She fell in love with his personal physician, Johann Friedrich Struensee, who gradually took on more power and acted as a kind of regent. She bore Struensee's daughter. However, he was German, not Swedish, but we won't be too picky... See A Royal Affair (2012) with Mads Mikkelsen as Struensee and Alicia Vikander as Caroline.
@@katjack2780 And that didn't end well either. Caroline Matilda also ended up imprisoned in Celle, and Struensee was brutally executed. The little girl thought to be Struensee's was accepted by the royal family and married well. Her daughter became queen consort of Denmark. The movie is definitely worth watching.
what a mess ... makes the lives of our current royals pale by comparison
Sure does.
It's funny, but George I is usually glossed over by most historians. He seems to be generally dismissed because he couldn't speak English and apparently didn't spend much time in England. I'd no idea about his lack of a queen, although I do have a vague recollection of having heard the story before. I'd certainly never heard the scandalous story of his mistress holding court with him as queen in all but name. Since George was going to divorce her anyway, it seems absolutely barbaric to deprive her of her freedom and her love, especially since he was carrying on with his mistress the whole time. And to think that this reprobate of a king was preferred over all those Catholics that were in the line of succession ahead of him seems particularly perverse. I wonder if Sophia knew what she was giving up? Did she know that George was Heir apparent to England when they married?
I know. The Hanoverians in general are a bit glossed over which is a shame, as they're fascinating. It wasn't really clear until Queen Anne's son died in 1700 that the throne would go to them, so no, I don't think Sophia Dorothea would have realised she could have been Queen of England some day.
The Catholics ( and not as many as is usually suggested) who were passed over were not all an ethical improvement over their cousin George. At least one was a bigamist. George was far from the only prince who viewed the marital bonds as elastic personally, but not so for their wives.
Were there any offspring of the three daughters?
Margarethe Gertrud (1701-1726), who married Albrecht Wolfgang, Count of Schaumburg-Lippe had one son who died without issue. The other sisters married, but neither had a child.
I think calling their love lives messy is a little bit melodramatic, they were two royals pressured into marrying for bloodlines who both, seemingly, met the loves of their lives after the fact.
If this story played out today, they would have divorced, gone their separate ways and lived happily ever after with their preferred partners. It is only the context of the situation that turns this into a tragedy.
Hmm, we can agree to disagree here. I think years of infidelity on both sides, a murdered lover, a locked up Princess and a quasi-consort who was never acknowledged as a wife and whose children by the King had to be passed off as her nieces is very messy indeed.
@@HistoryCalling - I totally agree.
I think the murder alone bumps it up to the messy category, never mind all the secret children and locked up divorcee-princess-queen
@@claire2088 have to.agree Charles and Diana did simply divorce, and her lovers were not killed, and he didn't imprison her. and look at the ongoing ripples of that scandal!
Just Imagine what would/could have happened to Diana, had she lived 300 years earlier…
But it's terribly unfair he got to live free and dandy publically parading around the double chinned walrus woman while she was imprisoned alone
Yup, that's the 17th/18th centuries for you. Not a good era for gender equality at all :-(
“double chinned walrus woman” had me dying😭😭
That
Mesalina was plane to a fault
It males sense they'd have a divorce rather than annulment - Germanic and Nordic areas had more "liberal", female forward laws. :)
Hi history calling I am a Muslim and I was going to ask my dad tells me that Spain was once a Muslim country was it a fully Muslims country or half divided with catholics and with Cathrine of Aragon family trying to kill them or something for example like Isabel of castle was she a horrible person who killed loads of Jews and Muslims in Spain love to know your answer thanks
Hi Raumann, I'm sorry I don't know anything about Spain's religious history other than the fact that it's been traditionally Catholic for many centuries. Probably Google could give you the answer you seek though.
Hello Raumaan, so, before Spain was a Muslim country, it was a Christian country (though likely mixed with a few pagan religions that still prevailed), in the 8th Century, the Iberian Peninsula was invaded by Muslims, and Christians escaped North to the Asturias (now northern Spain). The next hundred years were a continuing period of Christians and Muslims fighting, but also some peaceful periods during which they shared cultural aspects. Portugal eventually became a fully Christian country in 1143, when Dom Afonso Henriques signed a treaty with a Alfonso VII of Leon (one of the kingdoms which occupied modern day Spain), in which the latter recognised Portugal as its own country, independent from Leon.
In Spain, there was a Christian expansion (the so called Christian Reconquest, which also occurred in Portugal, though it ended much sooner there), and smaller kingdoms like Leon, Castile, Aragon and Galiza shared a language and culture, but had different rulers. As for the Muslims, they migrated south, occupying what is now southern Spain. And so it stayed till the 15th century (though some of the kingdoms in northern Spain assimilated and became joint).
Now we come to Isabella of Castile and her part in the Muslim persecution. Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon married, and ruled over their territories jointly, and once they died, their heir would rule over the whole of Spain. During their reign, the Muslims were expelled from Granada, to where they had fled. They created the Spanish Inquisition, however, Ferdinand’s part in the killing and torturing of Muslims (and Jews) was much bigger than that of Isabella. She wanted lighter punishment for non Christians, but was overruled by Ferdinand and others. So, if we were to call people terrible, Ferdinand would be the target (even in other aspects he strikes me as a piece of sh**).
Hope this helped :)
@@lfgifu296 thanks by the way
@@raumaanking np, hope it helped
@@lfgifu296 by the way I was going to ask a what if question what if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were never killed and instead they got annulment from Henry the 8th and were sent away and imagine if they were both still alive during Mary’s reign what would have happened in your opinion
Sophia Dorothea and Konigmarcke remind me of Harry and Megan!!!
Not even close, not that I hold a brief for the Sussexes.
As much as I understand that royal women having affairs greatly risked the royal bloodlines, surely once an heir had been born and the royal couple are no longer in a relationship, this shouldn’t be a concern anymore. There’s just no reason beyond pure ego on the husbands part why women shouldn’t engage in discreet affairs just like men had with any resulting children being considered illegitimate
I suppose their attitude was that the only son might die and the crown might end up going to a younger, illegitimate child. Also, they wouldn't want to be paying out huge dowries for daughters who weren't theirs. It was also just a matter of personal pride and a sense of entitlement. They didn't want people to think they'd been cuckolded even though they publicly cheated on their wives and expected them to just bear it.
Who is the last king or Queen of England to be executed?
Charles I in 1649
Technically, Charles I. But if you take ‘executed’ to mean‘intentionally killed by another person’, it was George V. According to the records of his doctor, the king was intentionally given a huge overdose of morphine and cocaine specifically designed to kill him so his death could be reported in the morning newspaper
@@emilybarclay8831 Not that he wasn't dying. But you are right.
It seems that the English do not like taking names of monarchs that were not so good, i.e. John and Richard. We now see that Charles has kept his given name and is now Charles III. But, what about Charles I (executed for treason) and Charles II (died 1685)? I've heard that William may take the name of George when he ascends to the throne.
Hmm, I'd be surprised if William didn't just stick with William but time will tell I suppose. There have been other Prince Johns and Prince Richards in more recent times, but you're correct that the heir is never given those names. I don't think the royals would view Charles I's execution as legitimate though, so they probably wouldn't care about what the Cromwellians said about him.
Nothing particularly wrong with Charles II, I think.
@@edithengel2284 True. I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been another Richard. Agreed that Richard II and Richard III, weren't exactly the best, but Richard the Lionheart is still held in some esteem even though he almost bankrupted England and was only in England about 6 months of his reign. I think a modern Richard might give the name a good odor. Of course, I'm an American. But, I'm also something like 75% English ancestry. (Strong Irish, too.)
Royals ....out of touch with reality? Say it ain't so..ha
Well, just some of them some of the time (which to be fair, we could probably say about most people at different stages of their lives).
@@HistoryCalling perhaps they were the 'normal' ones....
Wtf.
Those awful Hanoverians. Should have stuck with the Stuarts. James III was a good husband
I must confess I don't know much about him and Maria Clementina.
He and his wife did not get on very well. He was much older than she; she was incredibly devout, and had a tendency to hysteria. She objected to her sons having Protestant tutors, and couldn't see that if they ever had a chance to return to power, the princes would have to show themselves open to working with people of the Protestant faith.
Sofia was stupid
Charles and Camilla should have had a morganatic marriage then?
No, it's a very old concept now. They didn't need one.
Thank you for your videos! As a German I would spell it like this: ˈt͡sɛlə :)