DOES KARATE SUCK!?? Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai - The ultimate breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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I'm from the old kyokushinkai school when Masutatsu Oyama was still alive. Without all stupid modern health and safety regulations. Kyokushinkai can't be soft it's all about very hard training and brutal methods of body and mind hardening. I have been 17 yo on summer karate camp and we used to train hard 6 hours a day . Running on the bare foot 8 kilometers on the morning before breakfast, 2 hours of conditioning and body hardening, dinner and 2 hours of sparring than breake and 1 hour technical training . After that another meal, some rest and before going bed.8 kilometers through the forest on bare foot again . That's why I love kyokushin. It's not only karate it's the way of going through the life. If you are kyokushin you will stay kyokushin for rest of your life. Osu !
Hard core!
Did you actually get to train at the Honbu Dojo under Sosai Oyama? 😃
@@hokutoshinken-chrisarmstro131 Not really, old shool here means training methods. I have never been in Japan.
OSDU!
😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥
I'm a grappler, but I've always been surprised to see people shit on Kyokushin. Those guys are hard as nails, and that goes a long way in a fight.
I mainly shit on the fact they don't allow punches to the head. If they did then I wouldn't do that (I never really understood why they ACTUALLY never punched the head until I got older.)
@@zombieexecutioner2560 It's definitely an issue, but fighting bare knuckle changes things.
@@NickKano11 It does but maybe if they learn things from Lethwei Fighters, do some Knuckle Conditioning, or Bareknuckle Boxers Maybe they can incorporate it. I plan on learning Karate but right now it's a toss up between Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, or Shito Ryu. (Only schools nearby)
@Thamster I didn't know about the punches to the face thing. I thought Kyokushin mainly focused on the body so conditioning wasn't as nesscary?
@@zombieexecutioner2560 they do allow punches to the face just not on tournament or kumite but in a street fight make no mistake everything counts punch to the face punch to the throat kick to the groin and stomp on their head when they r down dont mistake kumite from self defense they both are welcome in Kyokushin Karate
I'm a Dutchy and i agree with everything you said. I started of with Judo at the age of 7 (my mom wouldn't put me in Kyokushin just yet, my pops who trained Kyokushin when it just hit the Netherlands disagreed lol) and after 3 years of Judo i could finally start Kyokushin. It was very taxing on the body, especially the makiwara training (hitting a tree to condition knuckles). it was a circus. I got my black belt at the age of 25. After that i started doing Muay Thai and the one thing i had noticed was how much blows to the body i could take and the difference in leg techniques, Kyokushin teaches you to throw headkicks within arms' range plus the Muay Thai sparring partners didn't see it coming. It wasn't too hard to get used to the head punches since my Kyokushin dojo had "Shinken shobu" (head punches) in its curriculum. The pressure and toughness that i've gained from my Kyokushin background are still very usable in BJJ which i have been training for 7 years now. Knee on belly doesn't really do anything and the reason why Dutch fighters keep their guard up is because of the punishment they already got in Kyokushin. All of the Dutch kickboxing champs from K-1 to Glory, had training in Kyokushin techniques. gaomed toughness and it's engrained in our culture. It's the reason we still say "Osu" in every kickboxing gym all over the country. Cool vid! keep it up! Osu!
Osu
thank you for all this, I'm 4 kyu and also training dutch kickboxing, and always love hearing about the connections between the two
Similar story to mine. My dad took his 3rd Dan exam by Oyama himself and he trained me every morning and in the evening to the regular kickbox gym.
Within 6 weeks i knocked down the teacher who was a European Champion in the lower weight class with a Mawashi upclose. Brilliant.
The best man is almost 70 and still can`t beat him on technique. Unfortunately i broke my foot on an unlucky elbow and stopped after that :(.
I'm a dutchy myself and been kickboxing for alot of years now. Thing what i was wondering is that i heard people see we Dutch sparr harder in kickboxing than they do in other countries, is this hard kind of sparring something we took out of Kyokushin?
Respect++
The sheer volume of strikes they put in Kyokushin is unparalleled. The fact they don't hit to the face allows them to go full blast everywhere else.
@kevinhart46cool story bro
yeah, and it really builds fighting spirit when you can go full contact regularly without worrying about cte
They're tough but have no techniques - they are standing next to each other and exchanging body shots, without proper defense. I mean, they teach blocks like gedan barai but they seem to be impractical during an actual fight.
@@MrSaiyan333 Yeah, they are standing next to each other. And they take the hardest punches to their bodies without carying. They are conditioned to take the punches. I don't know how you can think that this is impractical in a fight. By the way you, when you can take all kinds of punches to the body without carying. You can focus sorely on defending your head. And the head is something you cannot really train to harden. Or in a nutshell: Protect your head, condition your body to take punches.
@@David_Raab Aside from dirty fighting, where you can directly kick the opponent's groin or knee? You can't condition your sternum or liver, either. Boxers also attack the body and they have more devastating punches, even wearing gloves.
As a muay thai guy that has tried TKD and boxing and sparred Kyokushin guys, I had the exact same experience.
I studied under Shigeru Oyama, Mats Oyama's student. I specifically took Kyokushin because no other gym had full contact sparring. It's not for everyone, it takes a certain kind of person that wants to do this. And the first lesson is pain, and how to deal with it.
Oh you went to World Oyama. I trained there in the Atlanta school. Shigeru was cool but all Black Belts are mediocre and the style is garbage over all.
@@realamericannegro977 Okay, world chump.
I also trained with Soshu in New York!
@@realamericannegro977 it's al about the instructor. However once soshu passed it changed
@@SangMLim I loved Soshu but it was bad even when he was alive but to be fair he wasn't there and only showed up from time to and your point is still valid. He just has dusty n words working for him in Sandy Springs.
I trained kyokushin, after training in shotokan to a reasonably high level, in Japan back in the Golden Era of K1. It’s amazing to me that people can still say “kyokushin sucks due to lack of head punches” given the sheer number of champions to come from kyokushin backgrounds. As you briefly mentioned, it takes very little boxing cross training to correct for bad habits in the ring, and kyokushin itself addressed this internally with their Team Ichigeki, for those who wanted to test their skills in a kickboxing arena. The other thing karate gives over Thai kickboxing, for those with high athleticism and high fight IQs, is complex “surprise” techniques. For most of us, however, the fancy stuff is superfluous but it is always fun to train.
I train in Japan in both Kudo and MMA but my backround is Kyokushin. I love these videos that actually articulate why I love the style. It's the mental toughness and conditioning that makes it such a useful style to learn.
If you ever come to NYC hmu. I want to train in kudo but I'm stuck in nyc for the time being.
Thank you so much for bringing up head trauma!! It is such an overlooked aspect of training that needs to have more light shed on it. Thanks man and thanks for this channel!
Absolutely! Thank you for the positivity! It's a huge part of combat sports that still goes widely ignored. The research on amateur boxers and brain damage was shocking that I saw.
I wanted to learn Kyokushin so badly, but it is very difficult to find a school that teaches it.
My Judo instructor is a Kyokushin black belt that trained in Japan under Oyama (doesn't teach it, he only teaches Judo) and although he is older now, he had reputation for being a beast back in the day. He would have boxers and the like come and try to fight him and mess with him out on the street and at his gym because my instructor was “the karate guy”. He would beat the living dog s*** out of them.
There is a possibility that another style has a school in your area, which is also "Knockdown/full contact"-based. Kyokushin has some offspins, like Enshin, Seidokaikan, Ashihara. Or maybe Shidokan, Yoshukai.
Having both kyokushin and judo in your arsenal is an extremely well rounded combination.
Sad that your instructor doesn't teach both, he must have a lot of experience and secrets on how to combine them the most effectivly.
But after you are competent in judo you can crostrain in boxing which is also a very good combination
@@DamienOzFrank Why do you pick boxing as the alternative instead of Muay Thai?
@@kaen4299 just a time invested mentality
To get good at muay thai it takes a lot longer, of course you will also be more deadly but to have a good base in boxing is time very well spent especially if you focus on grappling as the real weapon
I went today to try a free class for kyokushin karate and it was hard and i got a little discouraged but after class the instructor spoke with me and he motivated me so i signed up and i got my uniform OSU! 🥋
Congratulations and enjoy the journey!
@@inside_fighting thank you! Osu 🥋
Great summary of kyokushin karate. I can reaffirm that its conditioning, the mental toughness, the never give up (osu ni seishin) are there.
Nice video. I've practiced Kyokushin since the early 70's. No head punches is really a "tournament rule". In the dojo they were allowed.
Means you dont respect the founder of Kyokushin who banned head punches
"Shell fighter" is probably the perfect description of what Mas Oyama wanted his students to be
Great post! I went from Kenpo to Muay Thai and Boxing. However, being older, I can feel the effects of taking head shots. I find the conditioning aspect really appealing and I would like to be able to continue training into my 70s--something I don't see happening with boxing or Muay Thai.
Part of the reason i love the system so much. It's something to think about.
@@inside_fighting There is alot of styles of karate some are better than others most people that talk crap about a martial art have never even faught someone good at that art the funny thing about the style you are talking about is they use no strategy they just stand there and beat the crap out of each other like in the old days of boxing.
I trained Muay Thai for 8 years and then transitioned to kyokushin in honor of my uncles death who was a black belt and coming from a pure Thai fighter to kyokushin let me tell you kyokushin is no slouch it’s just as brutal and violent and devastating
Your reason for transitioning is beautiful. 🙏🏼
I feel like Muay Thai fighters hate karate for me I went to my friends gym and I do karate and boxing mixed with judo we sparred and he got me good until I realized I could block his kicks and when he tried to clinch me he was surprised by karate takedowns
Very true. This is probably due to lack of keeping an opened mind ☝️ Learning other striking styles
@@thunderkatz4219actually it's arrogant muay thai and kickboxing practitioners say that but the thais from thailand are very respectful and never shame or talk down on other styles, so westerners do it not the thais
Great explanation from someone who can actually fight...all the respect. I have been practicing martial arts and combat sports for 17 years now, and Kyoskushin was a style that I have practiced a lot and even competed in it. I totally agree with your remarks regarding its pluses because afterwards I saw the benefits of this style in kickboxing, boxing ( the form of the straight punches and body shoots and not to mention that toughness that you slowly get used to) and even in Judo ( not from a technical perspective but from a physical one - basically you are already used with the grind). So thank you for the insight because I am actually sick of wannabes like IcyMike or other youtubers who are not actual fighters.
I really thing that combining kyokushin with judo is as deadly as it gets.
The bull fighting aspect the video talked about pairs perfectly to a well timed judo throw which are imo a fight ender if done right and the ground fighting in judo still is on par with wrestlers and bjj players
About cross training different martial arts, I trained at a branch of a large kyokushin organization and my sensei mixed it up quite a bit. Having us learn boxing techniques and a bit of judo is super valuable, and I didn't even have to look outside my own dojo. Most at my school weren't just training kyokushin even while they were competing at a fairly high level, judo, bjj and muay thai are all fairly common for kyokushin guys to train concurrently
Sound similar to Jon Blummings's kyokushin budokai - has the judo elements in that
The guy who invented Kudo (Karate + Judo) used to be a Kyokushin guy. To this day Kudo is one of the best martial arts ever because its already an Mixed Martial Art. The only thing not allowed in Kudo is bites or eye poking or nuts kicking. Headbutts are allowed even while wrestling on the floor.
It is funny that everybody gym/dojo of the people in internet is different than the real life ones. It is like the internet people has more hardcore gyms than real life dojos.
Interestingly Mas Oyama the founder of kyokushin was a black belt in judo and also trained boxing.
So it should be no surprise to see people crostrain
I think you can make a future video about the technical differences between Kyokushin Karate and Muay Thai if you want to. I mean things like they way they throw kicks and knee strikes as well as the other stuff in Kyokushin which don't exist in Muay Thai (e.g. throws and open-hand strikes). There is a lot of casual viewers who claim that Kyokushin Karate is just Japanese Muay Thai, but that doesn't make sense because no Muay Thai organzation has a public claim like that. I have seen Kyokushin matches and Muay Thai matches before. They don't look very identical to each other if you ask me. It's quite a very common misconception on the internet for some reason.
Yes they are very different especially in how they approach kicking and also the self defense aspects because kyokushin had the traditional elements as well. Great idea.
It's probably because people thought that even Kickboxing that was established around 1950-1960(older than kyokushin) by a Karate Master Tatsuo Yamada was still a copied version of Muaythai because he competed against muaythai fighters in 1950 and lost and then combined Karate with Muaythai and established his own version of art and called it kickboxing but most muaythai fighters would understand that it's a muaythai without elbows and knees and most of those kicks just picked up from the 5 Major kinds and 7 Minor kinds of Muaythai kicks from the old muaythai table.
And Kyokushin founded in 1964 by Korean-Japanese Mas.Oyama officially the international Karate organization.
Don't you guys think its a little weird???
I guess that's what most people thought about kyokushin.
I'm not talking about kickboxing because everyone known that was a karate+Muaythai.
@@onalonan That failure of traditional Karate in 1950s might've been avoidable if they weren't forced by sportive changes to discard /full-contact/freestyle types of sparring (e.g. Bogu Kumite and Jissen Kumite) because of the introduction of point kumite. Check out the freestyle match between Chinzo Machida (Shotokan Karate) and Cristiano Rosa (Muay Thai) for example. The title for the video is "Karate VS Muay Thai! Chinzo Machida's first MMA Fight!" and it's available on this website. The reason he managed to knocked him down twice with well-timed counters (reverse punch with blitz footwork) and then finished him up by kicking his ribs when he was downed is because he practiced practical Karate in freestyle sparring with real hits before that match.
And yes, Tatsuo Yamada was interested in Muay Thai because he wanted to perform Karate matches with full-contact rules since sport Karate did not allow them to hit each other directly. But Mas Oyama opened his own dojo named Oyama Dojo (form of Goju Ryu Karate) since 1953.
Very excited to see someone with a very relevant level of experience in Muay Thai, BJJ, AND Kyokushin. Subbed.
Looking forward to more of your insights.
Thank you for bringing more balance to the conversation.
Thank you sir 🙏🏼 lots more videos coming!
totally agree! the perfect example for your point is the Davit Kiria VS Andy Ristie Kickboxing match. Also, its quite common to see Muay Thai guys getting caught by surprise with Karate kicks which come from very different angles.
Excellent martial art breakdown, I have trained taekwondo, kyokushin, bjj, boxing and I can confirm that you are telling the truth ... good work 👏 OSU
I agree with all your points. Having trained in both Muay Thai and Kyokushin. Kyokushin has a standardised curriculum and all classes follow a similar format with sparring at the end. Muay Thai really depends on the coach you have and what skills and techniques he wants to cover. Plus I have definitely sparred more doing Kyokushin than Muay Thai. Muay Thai has become very popular and unless you are in a fighters class where there is lots of sparring most Muay Thai classes cover more bag punching, technique , fitness then sparring.
Completely agree. That’s been my personal experience! Thank you for watching.
Actually Kyokushin does have grappling, its goshin jitsu, but i believe it depends on what you want, and also, probably would be a lot more specific on bjj
Fantastic video. Can't wait to see more great content. Big fan of both Karate & Muay Thai
Kyokushin and shotokan karateka here. Good explanations. As far as body conditioning goes check out the okinawan karateka.
You dont come across as your typical egotistical online bjj guy. You are a suthentic martial artist and You won my subscription to your channel. Keep up the good work.
Thank you sir! I very much appreciate that. I love all martial arts and we can all learn from each other is how I see it. Glad you subbed!
When I trained we did open hand strikes to the face; palmstrikes can do damage. We also did WAKO kickboxing. I got my 2nd degree black belt from Daniel Tiger Schulmann when he was transitioning his system from World Oyama to K1 rules style kickboxing. Prior to that I had Goju Ryu.
@Cobra Kai K1 rules is modified Japanese Kickboxing rules limiting clinch time & no throws created in 1993 by Seidokaikan. The first competitors in K1 were Kyokushin karateka from Seidokaikan & World Oyama. TSK was one of the World Oyama dojo that made the transition to the new rules. Prior to that I was training at Amato's Karate & Weapons under Victor Buddy Amato who sponsored the first Japanese Kickboxing match in NJ in the 1970s. Amato was instructor level in Kardojitsu, & Isshin-Ryu. The difference between Japanese Kickboxing vs K1 is that K1 limited clinching time & disallowed throws.
@Cobra Kai when you were training did you learn kata? I think it was late 1999 early 2000 when they got rid of kata.
Thank you Ilan, for such a balanced, informed, and well considered post. I do BJJ and Kyokushin ( in my 50s) and have long felt they both offer a great balance between physicality and safety. Subscribed, and looking forward to more of your videos.
Thank you Elliot! Looking forward to making more videos!
I’ve been contemplating adding Kyukoshin once or twice a week to my BJJ training. I’m worried that my body might start suffering. Im 43, and wondering how you feel in your 50’s doing both?
I was the sparring partner of Andy Hug and a very close friend. He was the real deal and such a nice guy. Greetings from switzerland.
Amazing to hear you had the opportunity to know him and spar with him.
We lived in the same house. I went to Japan twice to be in the corner at his fights. Such a good and humble person he was. I would have lots of stories to tell ;-) ..... Have a great day
@@latestarter9542 I miss that katateka ,he put kyokushin to another level
Rest in peace, osu.
That's a good point. A lot of guys' careers end after a while with some of the combat sports. They start really young, but retire due to a lot of injuries. You don't really hear that much with styles like Karate or Taekwondo. My instructor is in his 40s, and he's still doing Taekwondo.
that worked for me as an inspirational video, to continue Kyokushin, thanks man!
That makes me really happy to hear! Never stop. It’s a great style.
I train Kyokushin under Kyohiko Hioki who was a student under Mas Oyama himself. I do other stuff and while I'm not a particularly good Karateka, the observations you make are right in line with Hioki's style of teaching. Kyokushin sparring rule set is designed to turn you into a tank, so you can keep a protective frame/shell over your head, come in and deliver these Star Platinum body punches, Thai fighter leg kicks, and tenderize your opponent before doing a knock out. The open hand strikes are regularly practiced in Kihon, and while it's emphasized you can switch targets with your punches, the ability to head kick at close range is this trump card that shouldn't be under estimated. Super cool video.
Didn't know Star Platinum practiced Kyokushin 😎
Hioki as in the dojo in phoenix az? I was watching this vid because I’m thinking of going there that’s crazy
Wow Kyokushin never thought of it that way. It makes sense if you want to be tank without brain damage go Kyokushin. I now think it's the same level as wrestling for base in MMA I want my kids to have no brain damage but still the toughest, really mindblown thanks for sharing your wisdom
Make them join kyokushin it will mould them into strong educated adults
I agree with everything you said in the video. I trained in kickboxing for a 2 years, boxing for three years, Muay Thai for a little over a year, and I’ve switched through several clubs. Now, I’ve found my place in Kyokushin karate. As you mentioned, the best conditioning and strengthening is in Kyokushin. I’ve always wanted to try it, but it wasn’t available in my country. As soon as the club opened, with a trainer from abroad, I came to try it out, and the training is tougher than anywhere else I’ve been. I think that Kyokushin plus boxing is an excellent combination for everything. You did a great job on the video, all compliments to you once again!
First video? Absolutely loved it! Though it's hard to find Kyokushin in my area. I'm an American Kenpo guy which is stylistically the opposite of Kyokushin (a whole lot of fast precise hits) but if I learned Kyokushin I could probably do the Kenpo techniques more fearlessly.
so glad you liked it! Jeff Speakman in the perfect weapon is one of my favorite martial arts guys and martial arts movies ever.
@@inside_fighting Oh yeah. Very underrated!
Great video. I did kyokushin for 10+ years and I transitioned to kickboxing - it was hard at first but I once I got boxing fundamentals down it was pretty sweet.
That being said, I do prefer Shidokan rules (2 rounds of Kyokushin rules with clinches and throws, 2 rounds of Kickboxing and 1 round of MMA).
Agreed. Kyokushin gives you a unique skill set
@@inside_fighting I'd say this against kk though and please correct me if im wrong: I have no desire to return to kk ever since kickboxing, though I still try to live by the kk spirit, which is very different than bjj or judo practitioners who dabbled in mma.
I like your take on the no head punch rule, but I'd say Kyokushin has not been producing as many great kickboxers as it used to. It is fading away from being the largest martial arts org and hugely successful in early kickboxing world, to quite unknown especially in the age of mma. I do think the rule is to blame here. I just dont know what can be done to fix it.
@@dababy4182 yea i train kyokushin strictly for the conditioning and enjoyment. It’s really a subset for me but not my primary martial art.
I take it for what it is.
As a sole system with no cross training the no head punching can be very bad but with even a bit of cross training it’s solved and becomes one of the toughest striking styles.
Mma is dominated by trends so that’s why you don’t see it there but i don’t think that indicates anything toward its efficacy.
@@inside_fighting Agreed. One great thing (you mentioned in the video) about Kyokushin is most of the instructors know how to teach, and has a belt system and set curriculum mostly drafted and revised over the years from Japan. Can't say that about many Muay Thai gyms these days - not saying the instructors are bad fighters but high likelihood to be bad teachers.
This is probably the best video on Kyokushin on RUclips. Great work
You have a kickass channel so i appreciate that brother 🙏🏼
At 55 I still train Kyokushin full contact, I also still train with guys 20 to 30 years younger than me. On a side note we will put in mouth guards and boxing gloves for kickboxing. I think it absolutely is a necessity to understand range management. Our club will go up to a local Muay Thai gym. Their Kru (coach) has mentioned multiple times that we are the only "karate guys" that they invite based off our conditioning. He also has had us there to run a conditioning class and help train guys when they are getting ready for a fight. Mental toughness is something we train each class. Osu
I love the fact that I don't have to experience head trauma when training. I also love that you included Matsui vs Kazumi sparring in your video.
I have been training muay thai for many years now but I have always liked Kyokushin from an outsider point of view, it looks super strong and some of the kicks are incredible, I am very lucky that right across my Muay Thai gym there is a Kyokushin dojo, I guess this video was what I needed to enter a different door a few times a week. Thanks
I’m really glad to hear that. It will compliment your training greatly and only make you better. It takes time to adjust coming from Muay Thai (i had a transition phase) but in the end of the day it made me better
@@inside_fighting hey, thanks for answering back. Do you think it is possible to train both at the same time or will that make my style weird in both ? 😆
@@patricioferraggi505 i think if you already have a foundation with Muay Thai and it’s ingrained in you then kyokushin will be a good addition. I wouldn’t recommend both for a beginner but as you said it’s been many years. There is a lot of overlap also. It’s great for conditioning and also adding a strong kicking arsenal as well as really cleaning up your fork for bareknuckle punches
Trained Kyokushin as a kid then switched to Enshin Karate then switched to MT. One thing MY fought me is to keep my hands on the phone and be able to control distance a little better with my punches (to the head) Kyokushin wants you to be much closer for low kicks and body shots but with Enshin, it’s all about being able to grab a hold of your opponent and control the shoulders to fire knees (and if you can, round house) from various angles while pulling you off balance.
Also, in my opinion the MT low kick and middle kick is less effective than that of a typical Kyokushin kick. Has to do with the way MT sets up the left foot (if you are kicking with the right) and the way the Kyokushin rotates over the kick before contact. Trained with Nickolas Pettas / Francisco Fihlo and Glaube Petosa (prior to the 2000 K1) and fought in Sabaki challenge. No fights in MT except during training. In street fight I think, Enshin (or Kyokushin) might be more effective than MT all though, running away is what I’d chose lol
Great video I really love the points you made. One point I would like to add is that
This type karate seem more extreme and has a higher barrier of entry. So I don’t think it’s something everyone should try if they are not prepared for that type of intensity.
I disagree. What is the point of practicing MA if you are not gonna test it with sparing??? Why bother?
I love kyokushin, kyokushin is verry strong type af martial arts
It's good to see a for real realistic fighter here. You're not the only one but you are a rare breed.
Love your content and commentary. It's very rare that I agree with someone on pretty much everything martial arts and fighting.
You are a connaisseur, my man.
That’s great to appreciated 🙏🏼 very glad you found the channel.
@@inside_fighting me too. I have a feeling you will be big if you continue with this quality stuff.
You are saying word for word exactly what I have been saying for years 🤣 everything, from the technical points, the importance of the durability this training builds, to the part about head trauma.
Great minds think alike or we have conversed at some point on Reddit/elsewhere😜
Osu, good video :)
I trained Kyokushin, eventually earned my 3rd degree, and it's no joke. I was knocked out cold by a blackbelt in 10 seconds in the first fight of my 1st degree test. I dropped my hands and he clipped me with a roundhouse to the back of my head. I woke up a few seconds later and completed the test in a daze. That said, it's a fighting art, not a self-defense art. I retired from Karate a few years ago for personal reasons (I'm 67) but my teacher is still at it at 86. His teacher was Shigeru Oyama whose teacher was Mas Oyama.
Wow that sounds like an amazing journey
I started my training in 1970 .. training was out of this world. two years into training I went for my first grading. and I persisted of the next 15 years.. during this time many students came and left ,, moving to Shoto and other styles. I am still a Shito Ryu practitioner.. Then Kyokushin was referred to as bush karateka.. yet I never came across any of these styles that could block our mawashi or stop our ashibarai.. I joined other styles as by then I was friends with most styles sensei in our town.. Keeping an open mind often gives you better insight on your own weaknesses and you learn how to overcome these..at least it worked well for me...your observations are honest and I enjoyed this... one thing I still see as a other styles shortcoming,, is the lack of hand and foot conditioning.. these are after all the base weapons of Karate.
You really earned this sub. Very clear, honest and open minded in your opinions. I wish everybody commenting martial arts had this approach. Cheers!
Muay Thai is different in the states, as is Kyokushin, however in terms of dropping hands/boxing by nature it teaches you bad habits out of the gate. If you're not gifted athletically Muay Thai teaches you better basics that are competitive with other arts. Case in point, more pro MMA fighters use Muay Thai techniques with success, as opposed to Kyokushin.
Another benefit of kyokushin ruleset is that it pretty much guarantees that a fast knockout is almost impossible. This teaches you patient and endurance, and not to try to end the fight early by being a knockout artist.
What a fantastic summary.
Apart from so much else, it's the first time I've ever seen (12m) anyone point out the value of wrist angle and landing seiken (first two knuckles) that Kyokushin (uniquely?) teaches.
All the conditioning and (humble but) tough attitude that one learns, it is the conditioning of knuckles (pressups always on the knuckles) that makes a vast difference.
I have seen guys really hurt their wrists and break hands in fights (blaming it on no gloves or bandages, and it amazes me that they don't just learn to land properly. I could hit someone as hard as I like on the head as many times as I like and never feel it (even though it's decades since I trained) because correct fist conditioning is ingrained. What's more, I don't have to hit you very hard for you to feel it because there is no "spongyiness" in my wrist or fist... and, like a stilleto heel pushing into, say, soft wood where a flat heel doesn't... my two knuckles going in with no give in the wrist sends the impact stratospheric. Reduce the surface area of contact and exponentially increase the degree of impact. This means I don't even have to hit hard to make you think I'm hitting VERY hard.
Really great video. Right on. Kyokushin has kept me out of so much trouble simply because my ego has long ago been knocked out of me, I know where I stand, I can simply look at a guy and know precisely where I stand with him without having to make it messy -- because through Kyokushin, you learn to see how a person moves in their ordinary life to know them intimately in the first second. Your analysis has been perfect. Well done.
I have always been prejudiced against Karate, but as a result of this video and my research, I find it more logical to start Kyokuskin Karate rather than Muay Thai. I would rather be punched in the body with bare hands than be punched in the head all the time. At the end of the day, I think I can defend myself and neutralize myself much more easily against the average person on the street when necessary.
Great video, thanks from Kyokushin!
Hi thank you very much for sharing your experience and knowledge with us!
Just want to add about the "consistent training up to 70s and 80s", I believe most traditional/ancient martial arts are like that, including many kungfu styles. The recent martial arts are more like sports and "staged arts", however, the old martial arts are "survival arts".
I agree with this. As they became more westernized and popular they lost some of it.
You should have over a million subs, I dig this content. I'm run a dojo and I dont feel like I've learned enough and these vids help me out a lot
That’s really appreciated man! Hopefully it grows 😀
Thanks! Great point about the shell fighting, didn't think about it. Kyokushin practitioners don't practice blocking or dodging punches to the head, but we do practice counters a whole freaking lot. For example, if you're fighting a guy with longer limbs, you have to let him strike first, otherwise, you'll just walk into his punches/kicks.
Counter punches to the body and counter punches to the face are pretty similar (they're still punches), so they should work no problem.
On the bare knuckle punching, I remember training with a guy who did construction work. He kept telling me to hit him harder (in the stomach, we did conditioning). I hit him so hard my wrist bent and it did nothing to him. Then I remembered what my sempai told me about punching with the first 2 knuckles, so punched him with just the knuckles one or two times and he immediately backed off and asked to go lighter.
I think, although there are disadvantages to removing strikes to the head, there is just as much to gain. Just like taekwondo creates some of the best kickers out there because that's all they do, kyokushin creates some of the toughest bastards out there cause they beat the crap out of each other.
Another point I saw someone make (not sure how valid it is though, since I don't know how Muay Thay training goes), is that you can start fighting almost immediately with kyokushin, which is definitely true. For example, you can teach a newbie how to punch and immediately pair him up with someone to practice sparring with just that one punch. Then you add another punch, a kick, and so on. Not sure if other martial arts have a longer waiting time, but the waiting time for sparring is very low in kyokushin.
Also, for people getting into martial arts (doing it on an amateur level), getting punched in the head is a bad idea. Even if you want to do mma or a bunch of other styles, kyokushin is a great stand up springboard style since it teaches you almost everything with little to no head injuries and toughens you up, which is arguably the most important thing new fighters need to do.
Just started Kyokushin. Great video, Ossu!
Much appreciated. Glad to hear you are on your kyokushin journey.
How’s it going?
@simplyragez-_-1767 well, in terms of graduation and competitions nothing great, there were a few setbacks. However i got to meet and train with all my idols that are alive. Met 3 world Kyokushin Champions, Shihan Filho, Shihan Feitosa and Sensei Ewerton and also got to learn and train with Shihan Semmy Schilt. All that happened this year.
@@oversipelio983 that’s fire bro keep grinding
@@simplyragez-_-1767 will do! Have a great day.
Great video! I started out in the karate world and it’s been very challenging to explain how and why people shouldn’t laugh at it. I gave up defending it because I realized I was just coming off as biased every time.
Next time I will just show someone this video. Thanks for uploading.
Glad to hear it has value to you. People just follow trends and believe whatever is popular. AKA its easy to hate on karate nowadays... but when you actually train with good karateka you realize quickly it has value.
Kyokushin VS. Muay Thai is popularized with Ryu VS. Sagat of The Street Fighter series.
Great analysis. You deserve more subscribers. Subbed. Hope you will share more of your insights in future vids
Great video man! I'm thinking of getting into that type of Karate, because I developed tinnitus from all the punches I took to the head, when I trained boxing. I really want some hard sparring, without the head trauma.
Same position i was in. I recommend it. You won’t regret it.
I started Kyokushin and am loving it. Luckily, there is also a Dutch Kickboxing gym in my area, so the plan is to eventually sprinkle that in a few times a month to get some better head movement.
You got the dream situation if that’s the case
@@inside_fighting Benefits of a big city. Keep up the good work!
Didn't realize this was a brand new channel. Glad for the few people out there who recognize the benefits of various arts and don't just go dumping on other people's stuff. You got a new sub!
Really appreciate that! I tend to be interested in all martial arts. I am like a kid when it comes to this stuff even after all these years.
@@inside_fighting Likewise! And while I'm still a beginner in alot of ways I've found having an eclectic fighting background is an advantage it really confuses people!
I’ve had a longtime pet theory that when people criticize a martial art, they aren’t really criticizing it so much as they trying to reaffirm their own choice of martial art/taste.
I’ve noticed, for example, that Judo (which has seemingly become much more niche in the States since the rise of BJJ), Kyokushin, Savate, etc. etc. always seem to have “something unforgivably wrong” with them in a lot of online circles.
Rarely-if ever-do we see people discarding all of BJJ because the takedown level is pretty doodoo on average. We never see people discarding boxing because it lacks kicks. We never see people saying wrestling is useless because there are no submissions.
The online martial arts community I think has one of the largest intellectual gaps in it I have ever seen. On one hand you have super smart, open minded guys who are willing to take a crack at whatever and extract what they like from it. On the other hand are dudes who train one or two things-perhaps well, perhaps not-and then allow youtube fight compilations and UFC to determine the rest of their martial arts worldview.
It really seems to me that Boxing, wrestling, BJJ, and Muay Thai take far less of a beating online not because they are necessarily “better,” but because they are more accessible to people and they at least think they understand them more.
I’ve just personally run across so many people even offline in growing numbers since the 2010’s that will immediately write off anything vaguely “exotic” sounding unless it’s Muay Thai. It’s really baffling to me how inconsistent people can be with their judgements and how fanatically devoted people can get when trying to prove their martial art is “the most right.”
This isn’t to say all arts are created equally useful, I think some are certainly more practical than others. It’s just the willingness to write off whole arts for a hole or two and then conveniently ignore the holes in one’s own practice. At current date with so much good information out there it strikes me as bizarre and sad how narrow minded folks can be about this stuff.
Amazing insight and i couldn’t agree more to be honest. A lot of it comes from insecurity or just buying in to trends.
Great video, it opened my mind. I'll do Kyokushin next
this karate style, is the only one who can fight against a boxer using only hands. Is the one of the few styles that have answer to a close combat situations
Kyokushin has such a great cadence. Also kicks I don't see often in muay thai. I do both
This was a very good video. Well done. Hope you put out more material.
Thank you 🙏🏼 i definitely will be making more videos!
@@inside_fighting I've never trained in kyokushin or any of its offshoots. Probably wouldn't start now (I'm 61) because of the inherent rigidity of traditional karate but I can definitely see where this sort of thing would be effective. Especially when paired with a year of western boxing. I always felt that even the TKD I trained in during the 70s actually helped make my boxing punches be more penetrating. I would not want to revert to that method of training though. Too much like Japanese military academy.
Subscribed and hit the bell button. Thanks for being the first to talk about the consequences of MT and box for getting hit on the head. As an intellectual worker who happens to value his neurons, but also enjoys martial arts, I have never chosen to do either combat sport (box/MT)... There's just a lot of bravado of youngsters consistently hitting themselves on their heads with huge gloves all the time to see who's tougher in those gyms. Karate (Shoto-kan) keeps me fit and supple with my body. Certainly not as tough as a combat sports practitioner, but better than most ordinary people. From the self-defense point of view, I think Shoto-kan is enough (though not ideal perhaps) to deal with an average unarmed aggressor in a confrontation (most of what I've seen are not elite fighters)... anything beyond that kind of aggressor, I think you're better off not even trying (even if you are a pro fighter). I have never seen the point of doing MT if you're not going to become a fighter of some sort. I think most people underestimate karate out of ignorance or prejudice from what they see in competitions. What they don't seem to understand is that those elite point karate competitors can also deliver light-speed KOs, just let them cross-train and adapt to a full contact style and they can match up anywhere.
Looking forward to your anecdote about Shoto-kan
Agreed with everything you have said. Looking forward to making a video about shotokan.
I train kyokushin. You get punched in the face quite a bit. You can't be that close, going that hard without some 'mistakes'. You learn to keep your hands if you train properly
I started with Yoshukai Karate at 14, which from a sparring perspective, is the same as Kyokushin. It's definitely a great base for any fighter and in my experience it;s the only style that teaches you how to deal with streetfight conditions of knuckle to skin
Ving Tsun (Wing Chun) is my base style... I learned the old ways! At 11 years old No gloves. No mats, No gear.... just the hardwood floor, and walls reinforced with wood to keep from being launched through the wall.
Martial Arts = Military Arts when learned in its truest form. ALL MARTIAL ARTS FORMS ARE DEADLY WHEN TAUGHT IN ITS TRUE FORM!
In my younger years, I took a Karate class in college as a GPA Booster.lol. I've easily destroyed most many Black belts easily with my Ving Tsun, so this should be easy right? Well guess what....I was very very Lucky to walk into a Karate DOJO that still taught the old ways .... just like VING TSUN. I learned a valuable lesson. I was EXTREMELY fortunate to have an opportunity to learn Karate in its unwatered down state ...."Not for the faint of heart". I learned ISSHIN RYU KARATE-DO in the old way.... BRUTAL. If you Train hard enough and long enough...your white belt will eventually look BLACK... stained with blood, sweat, tears, and perhaps somebody else's Blood...a Real Black Belt!
ALL Martial Arts Systems are very deadly if it's not watered-down.
Be careful with speaking down to Traditional Martial Arts. The un watered-down versions are born out of war and people being decimated. Trust me you do not want to fight anybody that learned the unwater-down version of ANY System of fighting. Unfortunately, some people are jerks and will show no mercy to someone claiming there combat "sport" training is more effective. Be Humble Respectful and don't speak down on any style....For Real!
Bro, you cracked me up when you said, "A Kick just came" hahahaha
You reminded me the impression when we put on boxing gloves, starting the fight, and I felt like I was in a featherbed. No hard bone to bone hits, no pain.
Daaaaamn, that guy in the white gi at the end of the video is BADASS!!!!
Good stuff! I think you would mess your hands up constantly and ultimately cause permanent damage if you punched people in the head without gloves on and the uber conditioning required would almost certainly guarantee you wouldn't be able to hold a cup of coffee at 60.
Boxing brain fog is real and dangerous and I don't think a lot of fighters even realize it's happening.
Kyokushin is the perfect karate as a base to compliment dutch kickboxing, muay thai and peekaboo. Great points!
In the same way BJJ is the strongest base, with the best longevity to train for judo sambo or even MMA, Kyokushin is the striking equivalent.
Thank you for the video! I was between doing sambo or Kyokushin and perhaps mixing with Judo. I think your video is really helpful.
Yo llevo 2 años en boxeo y he tenido varias peleas amateur. Soy antofagastino y me fui a entrenar al único centro deportivo de mi ciudad, collao dojo; y que quieres que te diga? Es un estilo buenísimo, y la facilidad que me da practicarlo ya teniendo la base de boxeo es buenísima. Yo al menos combine el estilo, tengo una guardia cerrada y combino rodillazos con mawashi geris entre la guardia y combinaciones de puño rápidas para presionar, y no me genera un desgaste físico en lo absoluto. Pues cuando era boxeador hacía bastante cardio y también me daban muy duro, hasta dejarme sangrando. Me encanta el karate Kyokushinkai, lo que mas me complica son las patadas altas que dan y los kata, que para mi son muy técnicos. Pero lo demás se adapta perfectamente a mi forma de pelear. Llevo 2 meses practicando Kyokushinkai. Solo les digo que si tienen la oportunidad de aprender este estilo, háganlo, y si lo combinan con kickboxing o con box queda mucho mejor aún.
It is the style not the fighter. Thank you for pointing out this superbly important understanding. Osu!
So I ended up finding a Shidokan dojo- an offshoot of Kyokushin that incorporates grappling. Towards the end of the first class they were showing how to set up an Uchi Mata from strikes. Can't wait to mix in my Judo with striking :D
That’s the best combo. Lucky you found a school
@@inside_fighting I know right? They’re literally the only dojo in Australia, and it’s down the road from work 😁
I like the thing you said about the grading system. Some styles don't have that, so you're unsure if your really getting anywhere. I get why some people don't really care for it, but I like knowing that I'm at a certain level visually. I can compare it to how I was before and measure my own skills.
I feel the same way. It’s a bit of a guide and it also feels like an achievement when you test for it and earn it. Especially in kyokushin.
Nice Bokeh! Looking forward to the success of this channel~
Good production value goes a long way 😎
thanks for the great in depth explanation.... SUBSCRIBED...you deserve it
I'm probably gonna be the odd one here in this comment section, but I train in Dutch Kickboxing to supplement my BJJ Training. Dutch Style kickboxing comes from Japanese style Kickboxing which incorporated Kyokushin Karate and Muay Thai, Then around the 1970's a few Dutchmen went to Japan to learn the new Kickboxing Style and brought it back to The Netherlands in Holland. But over the years they refined the style by adding more Western Boxing into the Mix, Hence we have fighters like Ernesto Hoost, Rico Verhooven, Alistair Overeem, Bas Rutten and his Student Duane "Bang" Ludwig and the legendary Ramon Dekkers.
So yes I feel Karate and Muay Thai are both good in their own ways and have their pros and cons. However in case of my story with Kickboxing started out in TKD as a Child, Then went to BJJ along with training in BJJ I decided to train in Muay Thai. When I moved to my most recent Gym we started our affiliation with Duane Ludwig's "Bang Muay Thai" Team and mostly train in the Dutch Style however one of my Coaches is trained in Muay Thai and incorporates the Elbows, sweeps and clinching into the Dutch Style as we believe to learn both.
To add Duane also tells us to always try to throw a punch with both front Knuckles to build a good punching habit with and without gloves, Also to we train in open hand strikes similar to old school Pancrase like Bas Rutten due to Bas Rutten being apart of our team and affiliation.
However my final response will be learn both and similar to Bruce Lee take what is useful and make it your own.
Sir,this is the first vdo I saw from your channel and I subscribed immediately,I'm a Kyokushinkai and I started my Martial Arts journey with Kyokushin.I do Muay Thai,boxing, wrestling and little grappling at the moment and I can say the toughness and durability I got from Kyokushin training at a young age helps me a lot in my other combat training and my coaches and training partner admires my fighting spirit.
You're an inspiration for me coz I want to have similar martial arts experience like your with proper bjj and sambo training.
Will be looking forward for more knowledgeable videos like this one.
OSU!
Looking forward to showing techniques with you Arik! Glad you found the channel!
@@inside_fighting could you do a breakdown with TKD? I do ITF version. Also have you ever sparred an ITF tkd fighter? And what are your takes on it?
@@astonwrath6879 i had a friend who was an ITF black belt. He was quite a good fighter. Much better than WTF guys i trained with. He had better punches, more stable and had pretty good conditioning and movement. I think ITF is much better than WTF personally.
@@inside_fighting yes, but how would you say its strengths are compared to these two arts mentioned in your video, sir? And what would you are its weaknesses? *bows respectfully *
@@astonwrath6879 for me the strengths are really light footwork, in and out movement, incredible kicks and amazing timing.
Downsides are that the sparring and competition involves breaks after hits in most cases, low guard for many, lack of hand combinations and not everyone is well conditioned.
i really wanna get into kyokushin because i don't wanna get the CTE associated with boxing and kickboxing
Whats holding you back?
@@inside_fighting i currently live in a rural area with few sports in general. i plan on moving to a city and i've been hankering on picking up kyokushin, bjj, and judo to become a complete fighter.
@@JohnDoe-mp1yn I’d definitely start with any one of those. All good choices and you can always build on them
You are so good. Clear, rational, well argued.
Thank you for the clip, very well articulated. Looking forward to more clips
Can you imagine a sport that mixed Kyokushin with sumo? It would add hits to the face in the way of palmstrikes and slaps, it would add throws, it would be openweight and they would have to be very aware of the ring to not be thrown out...
Probably would be less about conditioning, but that ruleset would make some scary fighters too
That's essentially Shooto (shoot fighting, shoot boxing). Ringouts was by grabbing the rope, which caused a point to be deducted. In gyms with just mats it was going out the circle.
@@kevionrogers2605 sounds good, but i was thinking more of a "you step out, you loose" to force them to be more agresive and aware of the ring
Great video! Just subscribed. Greetings from Singapore! Osu!
Great video here! Answered all my questions I had as a Muay Thai fighter
I've been doing combat sports since I was a kid and I've been knocked around a TON but the only serious concussion I've ever gotten was when I was holding pads for a kyokushin black belt and he kicked me in the chest pad so hard my head snapped back and I was wearing sunglasses inside for a week. I've trained with pro fighters, pro bareknuckle boxers, you name it. I have never been hit as hard in my life. Through the title boxing chest guard. The guy was 155 pounds. He once kicked me in the head and the entire side of my head was numb and I couldn't hear out of that ear for a few minutes. I've been around pro thai boxers and I have never seen someone hit as hard as people in Kyokushin.
This comment is 🔥 there is something about kyokushin that’s just different
I'm surprised not more Kyokushin fighters die or quit after getting (severely) injured if it's full contact bare knuckle fights all the time. Also I would've liked a more deep dive into comparison of techniques between Kyokushin and Karate.
Thing is, there's a Shinken Shobu rule set where head punches/elbows, throws and takedowns are allowed. It's not bare knuckle though, small MMA style gloves are used.
love hearing about your perspective and how you broke it down, i shall sub for more
I know this is out of point but I also learned how to punch properly in Shotokan/sport karate. You punch with the two knuckles after the thumb. To condition them you do pushups with them. I punched heavy bags with bare knuckles and occasionally sparred with kick-boxers but did not get hurt by low kicks
muay thai teaches you how to defend and take punches to the face and obviously how to knock someone out, something fundamental that kyokushin doesn't teach.
Thank you for all the insights.
Thank you for watching Eli 🙏🏼
On a side note, kyokushin punches are body only for good reasons, and by no means mean that a kyokushinka couldn't easily aim at the head or raise the hands higher too.
Totally agree with you. I’m from Puerto Rico and I practice kyokushin, Kenpo and other martial arts and whatever I was sparring every body says that I absorb anything they throw at me like it was nothing. So they concentrate on trying to hitting my face… 😂