I'm sure that everything you mentioned about Sade, his use of humor, the way he addressed philosophy, sexuality, and overall taboos is why Angela Carter was so into his work. one can see how those two particular creative views/perceptions of people and art intersect, and how Carter's form of transgression picks up on where Sade left off for his time. just my thoughts, tho! Sade is very hit or miss for me, particularly because of how repetitive he can get. but I don't think that takes away from what he's bringing to the table! he's a must read for anyone interested in philosophy, morality, human sexuality and taboos.
Yeah I think the repetition is a big setback. If I ever become an academic I would be interested to see if the University would let me teach a course on his philosophy. It's a very neglected topic, probably because of all the explicit sexuality and violence! But it would be an interesting course to teach, and certainly would provoke discussion.
His best book. Fantastic. Really funny too. Plus, it explicitly spells out his politics. His characters are just hysterical. His gross parts, I think were in there to keep religious cranks from reading his philosophy which might actually empower them. But even that's part of his theatrics. He was a genius. I don't think his sadism was real. I think he's up there with Shakespeare.
I got my hands on an abridged translation when I was 12 years old. I love it, one of the best books out there. I wholly concur with your view that he was a genius. And I see nowadays people actually believe that stuck-up religious individuals, members of clergy etc are moral and trustworthy. Whenever they hear crap coming out of their pasts about affairs, violence, corruption and that sort of thing, a lot of people outraged. I'm sitting here thinking "what, are you f**king surprised?! Don't people read Sade anymore?". Whenever there is talk of someone who is "a respectable pillar of the community, family-oriented, upstanding religious person", I know that their closets are full of skeletons.
Fascinating. You're a true critic - you take the subject seriously, and treat criticism creatively. It never occurred to me to read Sade. Might have to now...
Thanks I appreciate that :) You should definitely give him a try. I think Juliette is a must read, but given that it's 1200 pages it's also quite the commitment. But she is a much more entertaining heroine than Justine. :P
Justine, Juliette, The Philosophy of the Bedroom and The 120 Days of Sodome are Sade’s explicit and brutal works, as abundant in pornography and torture as in nihilist philosophy. His other works are average tragedies for the time. For me Justine and Philosophy of the Bedroom are the best start for every beginner, since Juliette is very long and Sodome incomplete. Pasolini’s Salo and perhaps Marquis by Roland Topor are the two best cinematic adaptations of Sade’s work.
I wouldn't fully agree, though I think those are great novels, Aline and Valcour is also excellent and while it's more moderate in content, the philosophy is perhaps a bit deeper, because he's less jaded by that point. Thank you for your thoughts. :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall , unfortunately I could only read a very shortened version of Aline et Valcour in Spanish and the bit about the voyages to the utopian and dystopian lands visited by one of the characters, surely the most interesting parts, were not included in the edition. Thanks for the recommendation. I will try to find an English translation.
The English writer Samuel Richardson (1689-1761) published a very well known novel called "Pamela; or, Virtue Rewarded" in 1740. Sade's "Justine; or, The Misfortunes of Virtue" may be considered a reaction to, or rather, a rejection of Richardson's novel as the themes of the two works are in contrast to one another.
Nice work. I've read Justine but not Juliette. It's interesting from a philosophical point of view to look at the way the major French Philosophes regarded Nature. Voltaire regarded it has a basically well ordered rational universe presided over by a benign deity. (After the Lisbon earthquake he wasn't so sure.) Rousseau thought that Nature was good, and that society corrupted man So he advocated a return to Nature. Diderot saw Nature as ruled by indeterminacy, and unlike Voltaire, he reveled in it. And then along came De Sade who turned all this on its head. Nature, de Sade agreed, has to be followed, and to do something contrary to Nature is both foolish, unnatural and wrong. But Nature is evil. (At least as the word "evil" is used in common parlance .) Morality goes against Nature, and rewards "virtue" which is a denial of reality. Therefore, being "unnatural" Morality is "evil" and those who follow it are either fools or hiding their evil deeds behind it. Q.E.D.
Thanks, Joshua. I'm new to your channel but I like your work. I'm surprised you get so few comments. Have you ever thought of doing some reviews of Diderot or Voltaire ? I'd like to hear your views on Jacques The Fatalist and on Candide or Micromegas by Voltaire.
@@frankmorlock1403 I'm glad you like the channel. I've not read any Diderot, but I have read Voltaire. Candide is one of my favourites, not only is it funny but it pokes fun at Leibniz, who is one of my favourite philosophers. I see Voltaire doing to Leibniz as similar to what I think Sade is doing with Rousseau. Rousseau and Lebniz have this positive outlook on life (but in very different ways) and Sade and Voltaire turn their ideas on their heads! I might do something on Candide in the future. I would have to re-read it though... but that's hardly a chore! :)
If you think "The 120 Days of Sodom" is the most gruesome book ever written, try to get a copy of Samuel R. Delany's "Hogg". Im sure your opinion will change after you read Delany's novel.
I just looked at the wikipedia page for that. It looks terrifying to say the least. Can't say anything about Sodom though, since I haven't read it yet. Juliette though, that's quite horrific! :P
"You shouldn't take Sade too serious." That's an understatement. One thing I learned from Sade is that he was very sarcastic and manic a lot of times. Hence the over exaggeration. Whenever he disliked something, be in an idea, or an act, or a political point, he'd grossly exaggerate it to the ridiculous, but when discussing his own philosophy or things he enjoyed, he would be matter-of-fact about it. His evil characters were obscenely evil and his nice characters were just "nice" I really enjoyed 120 days, because I felt it very funny at multiple points. The bad guys were terrible and the good ones were innocent fodder. All to feed a point about power and politics that, for the modern day audience, would still resonate in light of the Epstein Island issue, among other notorious human trafficking violations. And after reading it, and Sades other works, I could see the two types of people who either accepted or ignored to various degrees that heinous evil like that exists in the world, but nobody can deny that it exists. And more to the point, and to sum this all up, Sade presents a compelling argument for his nihilistic beliefs. I can understand why, knowing what Sade knew, and how he presents his perspective, that he would think as he does. And he doesn't seem irrational. Even if you don't agree with Sade, none can deny the aspects of existence which he focuses on, and I feel like I'm better off having read his library because it presented a lot of challenges to my own beliefs and how I view the world. Communication understandable between a 17th century Frenchman and a 21st century American. Both looking at evil like "yeah, bro...that's fucked." "Right?"
There's no one who comes close to De Sade when it comes to depravity,I mean just compare Juliette to that joke fifty shades,which I find risible how people can be shocked by it,imagine if they read De Sade,they'd probably have a heart attack.Personally I've never understood how someone can be shocked by literature.120 Days is the funniest book I've ever read.
Just finnished it an hour ago! I was clickbaited to read it since I was expecting a lot of violence, torture and murder, since I already read Justine and 120 days in Sodom, but got tricked into a philosophy and anthropology study on human behaviour and laws of nature that got me very veeery pleased. One thing that I find interesting is at chosing partners, Noircieul tells from the beggining that he doesn't love Juliette and neither should she be tricked by that and she has to follow her own greed and acknowledge companionship once the ones who are around her are adding value to her own purposes. Also it covers the topic of life and death beautifully in a way that death is just us getting back to nature and takes out all the symbolism and romanticism behind any religious credo might have make us believe in first place. I also liked the point on the difference among what he calls the laws of nature and the laws of men I always feel that I am breaking the Matrix when reading Sade 🚀
I came for the gothic horror recommendations but stayed for this video 😂 not many people are out there reviewing Sade. I have Justine and 120 Days Of Sodom but haven't had the guts to read them yet. Looks like I should buy a copy of this too and put it in my tbr. Great videos! I subscribed 👍
Haha yeah, Sade is tough going! I haven't read Sodom yet, but Justine isn't a bad place to start, although Justine is a bit of a sap in comparison to Juliette! :P
As someone who has read Salo (and the infamous yet artistically beautiful film adaptation), I will say that structurally it is the most bizarre novel I have ever read and yes, it's as disturbing as all you have heard. But, can't say I regret the experience. Just don't know if I would go back to that film and novel anytime soon. But yeah Joshua: your thoughts would be worth hearing.
You encapsulate aspects I deemed irrelevant to a degree, while I consider erotica worthless Eros, logic and pathos are terms I sort of express in narratives I express, cause anything can be erotica, the vile man grabbed me by the neck etc.
"getting a rise out of people"..."at times it was pretty hard going..." You couldn't have put it better Joshua LOL I have a copy somewhere of DeSade's "20 Days Of Sodom". I've never read it. Do you think Thackery's Becky Sharpe was influenced by Juliette?
I haven't read Sodom yet myself; partly because it's not a complete novel and so most of it is just short sections outlining the scenes rather than fully finished prose. I probably will read it at some point though; I'm a completionist, so I have to! :P I think you might be right there about Becky Sharp. Even if it wasn't directly influenced it is definitely a similar kind of story. You even have her friend Amelia, who seems like she might fit more into the "Justine" archetype!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Sade never got to finish Sodom. The premise is that some powerful people decide to do a "retreat" of sorts in a palace for 4 months, barricading themselves in with some victims who are supposed to be subjected to worse and worse treatments as time goes on. He wrote the first month (which is pretty horrific), and for the rest he only managed to write the outline. I don't remember there being philosophy in it, though, and that makes it much less interesting to me. "Philosophy in the bedroom" is finished, that's much more interesting.
I came across this author while I was at half price books i haven’t read any of his books before I decided to grab 2 of his books which are the 120 days of sodom and Juliette they both sound interesting to read. Which one should I read first?
No one has a right to abortion of any kind Just as no one has a right to stop anyone from doing so. Because rights are simply an assertion of intent, “rights” are only in our minds .
I'm sure that everything you mentioned about Sade, his use of humor, the way he addressed philosophy, sexuality, and overall taboos is why Angela Carter was so into his work. one can see how those two particular creative views/perceptions of people and art intersect, and how Carter's form of transgression picks up on where Sade left off for his time. just my thoughts, tho!
Sade is very hit or miss for me, particularly because of how repetitive he can get. but I don't think that takes away from what he's bringing to the table! he's a must read for anyone interested in philosophy, morality, human sexuality and taboos.
Yeah I think the repetition is a big setback. If I ever become an academic I would be interested to see if the University would let me teach a course on his philosophy. It's a very neglected topic, probably because of all the explicit sexuality and violence! But it would be an interesting course to teach, and certainly would provoke discussion.
His best book. Fantastic. Really funny too. Plus, it explicitly spells out his politics. His characters are just hysterical.
His gross parts, I think were in there to keep religious cranks from reading his philosophy which might actually empower them. But even that's part of his theatrics.
He was a genius. I don't think his sadism was real. I think he's up there with Shakespeare.
I got my hands on an abridged translation when I was 12 years old. I love it, one of the best books out there. I wholly concur with your view that he was a genius. And I see nowadays people actually believe that stuck-up religious individuals, members of clergy etc are moral and trustworthy. Whenever they hear crap coming out of their pasts about affairs, violence, corruption and that sort of thing, a lot of people outraged. I'm sitting here thinking "what, are you f**king surprised?! Don't people read Sade anymore?". Whenever there is talk of someone who is "a respectable pillar of the community, family-oriented, upstanding religious person", I know that their closets are full of skeletons.
Fascinating. You're a true critic - you take the subject seriously, and treat criticism creatively. It never occurred to me to read Sade. Might have to now...
Thanks I appreciate that :) You should definitely give him a try. I think Juliette is a must read, but given that it's 1200 pages it's also quite the commitment. But she is a much more entertaining heroine than Justine. :P
Juliette is very assertive
Looks like Marquis De Sade was a progressive guy
Justine, Juliette, The Philosophy of the Bedroom and The 120 Days of Sodome are Sade’s explicit and brutal works, as abundant in pornography and torture as in nihilist philosophy. His other works are average tragedies for the time. For me Justine and Philosophy of the Bedroom are the best start for every beginner, since Juliette is very long and Sodome incomplete. Pasolini’s Salo and perhaps Marquis by Roland Topor are the two best cinematic adaptations of Sade’s work.
I wouldn't fully agree, though I think those are great novels, Aline and Valcour is also excellent and while it's more moderate in content, the philosophy is perhaps a bit deeper, because he's less jaded by that point. Thank you for your thoughts. :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall , unfortunately I could only read a very shortened version of Aline et Valcour in Spanish and the bit about the voyages to the utopian and dystopian lands visited by one of the characters, surely the most interesting parts, were not included in the edition. Thanks for the recommendation. I will try to find an English translation.
The English writer Samuel Richardson (1689-1761) published a very well known novel called "Pamela; or, Virtue Rewarded" in 1740. Sade's "Justine; or, The Misfortunes of Virtue" may be considered a reaction to, or rather, a rejection of Richardson's novel as the themes of the two works are in contrast to one another.
The most exciting thing I've ever read.
I wish more people watched your videos. I enjoy this channel very much; keep up the great work!
Nice work. I've read Justine but not Juliette. It's interesting from a philosophical point of view to look at the way the major French Philosophes regarded Nature. Voltaire regarded it has a basically well ordered rational universe presided over by a benign deity. (After the Lisbon earthquake he wasn't so sure.) Rousseau thought that Nature was good, and that society corrupted man So he advocated a return to Nature. Diderot saw Nature as ruled by indeterminacy, and unlike Voltaire, he reveled in it. And then along came De Sade who turned all this on its head. Nature, de Sade agreed, has to be followed, and to do something contrary to Nature is both foolish, unnatural and wrong. But Nature is evil. (At least as the word "evil" is used in common parlance .) Morality goes against Nature, and rewards "virtue" which is a denial of reality. Therefore, being "unnatural" Morality is "evil" and those who follow it are either fools or hiding their evil deeds behind it. Q.E.D.
Nice summary, couldn't have put it better myself! :D
Thanks, Joshua. I'm new to your channel but I like your work. I'm surprised you get so few comments. Have you ever thought of doing some reviews of Diderot or Voltaire ?
I'd like to hear your views on Jacques The Fatalist and on Candide or Micromegas by Voltaire.
@@frankmorlock1403 I'm glad you like the channel. I've not read any Diderot, but I have read Voltaire. Candide is one of my favourites, not only is it funny but it pokes fun at Leibniz, who is one of my favourite philosophers.
I see Voltaire doing to Leibniz as similar to what I think Sade is doing with Rousseau. Rousseau and Lebniz have this positive outlook on life (but in very different ways) and Sade and Voltaire turn their ideas on their heads!
I might do something on Candide in the future. I would have to re-read it though... but that's hardly a chore! :)
If you think "The 120 Days of Sodom" is the most gruesome book ever written, try to get a copy of Samuel R. Delany's "Hogg". Im sure your opinion will change after you read Delany's novel.
I just looked at the wikipedia page for that. It looks terrifying to say the least. Can't say anything about Sodom though, since I haven't read it yet. Juliette though, that's quite horrific! :P
Nice video!
How did you like the translation, by the by?
Never heard of this book but you just convinced me to read it! Great review as always 😍👏🏼❤️.
I personally prefer Juliette over 120 days of Sodom, which, to me, was far more repetative, maybe because the setting was in one particular place.
To be fair though, 120 days wasn't fully completed. I still actually need to read it myself though...
Such a great video! I bought a hardcover of the book and wanted a sign to read it… this is my sign
I would describe de Sadr as a feminist anti-hero.
"You shouldn't take Sade too serious."
That's an understatement. One thing I learned from Sade is that he was very sarcastic and manic a lot of times. Hence the over exaggeration. Whenever he disliked something, be in an idea, or an act, or a political point, he'd grossly exaggerate it to the ridiculous, but when discussing his own philosophy or things he enjoyed, he would be matter-of-fact about it. His evil characters were obscenely evil and his nice characters were just "nice"
I really enjoyed 120 days, because I felt it very funny at multiple points. The bad guys were terrible and the good ones were innocent fodder. All to feed a point about power and politics that, for the modern day audience, would still resonate in light of the Epstein Island issue, among other notorious human trafficking violations.
And after reading it, and Sades other works, I could see the two types of people who either accepted or ignored to various degrees that heinous evil like that exists in the world, but nobody can deny that it exists.
And more to the point, and to sum this all up, Sade presents a compelling argument for his nihilistic beliefs. I can understand why, knowing what Sade knew, and how he presents his perspective, that he would think as he does. And he doesn't seem irrational. Even if you don't agree with Sade, none can deny the aspects of existence which he focuses on, and I feel like I'm better off having read his library because it presented a lot of challenges to my own beliefs and how I view the world.
Communication understandable between a 17th century Frenchman and a 21st century American. Both looking at evil like "yeah, bro...that's fucked." "Right?"
Might be your wife,or kids at next sewing circle.Evil is Evil!
There's no one who comes close to De Sade when it comes to depravity,I mean just compare Juliette to that joke fifty shades,which I find risible how people can be shocked by it,imagine if they read De Sade,they'd probably have a heart attack.Personally I've never understood how someone can be shocked by literature.120 Days is the funniest book I've ever read.
Is there a translation available in Arabic?
Just finnished it an hour ago! I was clickbaited to read it since I was expecting a lot of violence, torture and murder, since I already read Justine and 120 days in Sodom, but got tricked into a philosophy and anthropology study on human behaviour and laws of nature that got me very veeery pleased. One thing that I find interesting is at chosing partners, Noircieul tells from the beggining that he doesn't love Juliette and neither should she be tricked by that and she has to follow her own greed and acknowledge companionship once the ones who are around her are adding value to her own purposes. Also it covers the topic of life and death beautifully in a way that death is just us getting back to nature and takes out all the symbolism and romanticism behind any religious credo might have make us believe in first place. I also liked the point on the difference among what he calls the laws of nature and the laws of men I always feel that I am breaking the Matrix when reading Sade 🚀
Well done on getting through it!
I came for the gothic horror recommendations but stayed for this video 😂 not many people are out there reviewing Sade. I have Justine and 120 Days Of Sodom but haven't had the guts to read them yet. Looks like I should buy a copy of this too and put it in my tbr. Great videos! I subscribed 👍
Haha yeah, Sade is tough going! I haven't read Sodom yet, but Justine isn't a bad place to start, although Justine is a bit of a sap in comparison to Juliette! :P
As someone who has read Salo (and the infamous yet artistically beautiful film adaptation), I will say that structurally it is the most bizarre novel I have ever read and yes, it's as disturbing as all you have heard. But, can't say I regret the experience. Just don't know if I would go back to that film and novel anytime soon. But yeah Joshua: your thoughts would be worth hearing.
@@zachbrehany2253 I've not read 120 days of Sodom yet, but when I do I will let you know! Also not seen the film either.
You encapsulate aspects I deemed irrelevant to a degree, while I consider erotica worthless Eros, logic and pathos are terms I sort of express in narratives I express, cause anything can be erotica, the vile man grabbed me by the neck etc.
"getting a rise out of people"..."at times it was pretty hard going..." You couldn't have put it better Joshua LOL I have a copy somewhere of DeSade's "20 Days Of Sodom". I've never read it. Do you think Thackery's Becky Sharpe was influenced by Juliette?
I haven't read Sodom yet myself; partly because it's not a complete novel and so most of it is just short sections outlining the scenes rather than fully finished prose. I probably will read it at some point though; I'm a completionist, so I have to! :P
I think you might be right there about Becky Sharp. Even if it wasn't directly influenced it is definitely a similar kind of story. You even have her friend Amelia, who seems like she might fit more into the "Justine" archetype!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Sade never got to finish Sodom. The premise is that some powerful people decide to do a "retreat" of sorts in a palace for 4 months, barricading themselves in with some victims who are supposed to be subjected to worse and worse treatments as time goes on. He wrote the first month (which is pretty horrific), and for the rest he only managed to write the outline. I don't remember there being philosophy in it, though, and that makes it much less interesting to me. "Philosophy in the bedroom" is finished, that's much more interesting.
🧐😉👍🌹
I came across this author while I was at half price books i haven’t read any of his books before I decided to grab 2 of his books which are the 120 days of sodom and Juliette they both sound interesting to read. Which one should I read first?
120 days isn't a complete book really, whereas Juliette is, so I'd go with the latter.
The thing that keeps me from taking it as satire is that he himself was documented as doing some perverted stuff of his own
This is true, although there are examples abound of people who profess to be against something in their work, but actually do it in private after all!
No one has a right to abortion of any kind
Just as no one has a right to stop anyone from doing so.
Because rights are simply an assertion of intent, “rights” are only in our minds .