My heart goes out to you and the victims (not saying you are that kind of victim but a victim of indoctrination) that were told by the elders to forgive their rapist or be excommunicated which, as you know, is a thing that makes you a pariah in the society you live in, including your own family. I knew a girl that got involved with the Philadelphia Church and was abused so badly that she took her own life. Different sects, same abuse. I wish you all well on your travels in the reality we live in. :)
Hope you're doing alright and not went too crazy. It's such a disservice that religions folks do to children. They're not really taught how to operate life without strict rules and a god watching you. Once that's gone...there's a fair amount that can't handle having to think for themselves
My heart goes out to all mormon children around here (Utah), but especially the FLDS ones. "God" forbid they discover they are gay at some point, their family life is just over if they come out.
I gotta give the caller credit. He sounds like he has enough integrity to admit he has a lot to think about. He seems pretty self aware compared to many of the other callers.
@Mouse_007 that's true. I still think it's good he can question, but at some point one has to figure out where they stand in general and not be swayed into such life changing beliefs so easily.
@@c.guydubois8270 It is because he honestly does not know how to answer these questions which perplex his untested mind. He is green as a skeptic. It takes time to battle down the wall of delusion for certain people stuck in a bad habit of blind faith.
@@mrsnakesmrnot8499 yes , I came out of belief 30+ years past. Tolerance for the same old BS is wearing thin. I'll try to be more charitable in the future.... Thanks He proudly claims to be educated with a degree in English. That entails comprehension skills. 🎵Dumb de dum dum dumb🎵
Several times throughout this call, I felt that the questions he was asking, and the way that he walked right into several logical fallacies and then graciously acknowledged that his position was fallacious- it seemed like he was almost a plant, put there by the show hosts for entertainment value. (He’s also my favourite caller ever, because I am an ex-Mormon with 40+ years under the control of the Corporation, and about 5 on the outside).
I was a Mormon most of life and that’s what made me an atheist. I started to deconstruct the religion and then religion as a whole. I figured if millions of people can believe the nonsense of Mormonism then it should be no different of a mentality with religion in general. People always say Mormonism is crazy and weird, but in reality it’s no different than any other religious belief.
I think the difference here is that Mormonism is a very clear and obvious fabrication. It hasn't got the veil of time to hide it's origins but stands 'naked' as it were, trying to claim it's fully dressed. We know for a fact who wrote the book, when, how and why. We can actually look at the progress of his bank balance. 🤣 Unsophisticated people may be unable to distinguish social pressure and custom from real evidence, and thus fall prey to established religion but it takes a special sort of determined blindness to fall for a cult con of that nature.
These people that say Mormonism is crazy...are Christians that don't realise their own bullshit. They think the exact same way about every other religion.
I just read the Bible and boom... This is incoherent bullshit breaking every law of logic, physics, chemistry and biology. It's not just special pleading, its suspending reality to believe in something for which there is no evidence.
Joseph seems like he stole the ideas of other people. Some of whom have been dead for centuries. He was a conman. Similar to L. RON. I was also a Mormon. I noticed what you mentioned. When you deconstruct Mormonism and compare it to previous religions, like the catholics, many of the same indoctrination tactics and control mechanisms were repeated.
That wasn't just a challenge to Jeff's faith, it was a total dissection of it! At least he was honest enough to concede he felt like the previous caller defending voodoo.
I do that with the Mormon Elders and Sisters that come by my house. They go into logic lock when they try to defend their book. The conversations usually go like this: Me: "The Book of Mormon is racist because it said that white people settled the Americas and it was their sin that turned their skin to brown and black." Them: "Yeah, well, actually, that has since been changed through Apostolic Revelation to our current Prophet.." Me: "So Joseph Smith got it wrong in the Book of Mormon then?" Them: (slight panic) "Uh, no, he's our Prophet, he gave us the true word." Me: (smiling evilly) "Okay, then Joseph Smith had it right and your current Prophet had it wrong. Therefore the Book of Mormon is racist per my first point." Them: (now you can see the panic in their eyes) "No! That's not it at all! We've had Apostolic Revelation!" Me: (grinning like the Cheshire Cat) "Ok, so then your current leaders have it right and Joseph Smith has it wrong." (You can see gears grinding to a halt behind their eyes now) "You see, you can't have it both ways. Either Joseph Smith is wrong or your current leaders are wrong. So who's wrong here? Them: "We need to be going now..."
I was baptised as a Mormon when I was 17. I only lasted 9 months. As soon as I started to question things and think critically nothing made sense. Especially when the priest told me to be more childlike and to stop questioning everything.
Mormon "priests" are not authority figures. You mean "Bishop" or someone else. You never got too involved or you would have known that (which is a good thing...).
Mark Twain described the Book of Mormon as “ chloroform in print.” Read his travel book Roughing It for the chapters covering his visit to Salt Lake Lake City when Mormonism was a new thing. The story of Brigham Young’s troubles following the gift of a tin whistle for one of his myriad children is unforgettable.
That was a great call! It's always so encouraging and heartwarming when a caller really listens, asks genuine questions and cares about truth and consistency and empathy for fellow humans and isn't stuck clinging to ways to avoid cognitive dissonance! I hope Jeff finds all that truth he seems willing to seek!
I had some Mormons on the door step the other day and was having a conversation. I asked why The Book of Mormon was written when they already had The Bible. He said it was as we became more attuned we needed a new book. So the question that I asked was, If The Bible is the word of God and God created us, why didn't he create us to have the full understanding right from the start? He said he didn't know and would need to go back and get advice, I haven't seen him since.
The "burning" feels good, but after I became an atheist, I found I can cause the same burning, usually at will. The feelings of the spirit are a product of the mind.
"September Dawn" is a must see movie about the mormons murdering 120 settlers traveling to california in the middle 1800's and taking a vow to never discuss it, even amoung themselves. It is in my top three movies that I must see alone due to the inability to hold back my tears. Incredably moving movie based on an actual event.
"Is there anything you couldn't believe based on faith," is my favorite line of reasoning I've learned from AXP since my deconversion. It always seems to come down to this point anytime I deal with people in my life questioning my deconversion.
Probably one of the best arguments about faith. Let's embrace doubt/skepticism and embrace what we can test and verify. Stay away from "religion" (i.e. what we can't test or verify).
@@theundone777This is my favorite detail that I feel makes it really obvious that Christianity is mythology that evolved from older mythology. The whole "there were 13(?) Canaanite deities who each had a tribe they were in charge of" thing made it finally make sense why God has a "chosen people". I've always thought that was a weird detail to have in your religion, even before I was atheist. Why would God have a favorite people when he created everyone? Why put that in the holy book of a religion you're trying to spread to everyone? I feel like the pantheon beginning also has something to do with why Christianity claims to be monotheistic, but it's usually polytheistic, but there could be another reason for that. I haven't exactly followed the evolutionary line of Christianity to see why we have the father, son, and holy Ghost, and almost every sect is more Jesus-centric than God-centric. Having the focus on Jesus always seemed strange to me, too, when God is supposed to be the only god.
My dad is probably the most famous Mormonism attacker, we get recognized in grocery stores and people know our last name. This state is a cult. Utah is insane.
@@nelsondnazariotorres8732 Nothing violent or outright hostile, just sometimes people try to convince us of getting some lost faith back in our lives, or convincing to come join them to their ward, stuff like that. Mostly ostracism, I’ve tried to keep it pretty secret that I’m atheist for most of my life until recently where I just don’t care and I’m sick of hiding.
@@O.Reagano is there any Atheist societies in Utah ? Not to meet and discuss atheism , that would be absurd , but to just go and have a beer , and get some support .
@@michellebrown4903 I think I’ve met maybe 20 atheists (that I know of) in Utah. There’s probably a minor MINOR community somewhere, I’d guess SLC but I’ve never heard of one honestly :/
@@O.ReaganoI’m an exmo. Raised in Utah and actively rabidly Mormon for over 35 years. I’m an atheist. There are a bunch of us around in SLC (I live here now). A lot. There are Oasis (secular humanists) groups across the Wasatch front. In Salt Lake and Summit county, Mormons are now in the minority. The government is still absolutely majority Mormon for the state (lots of work to do in that regard). I just wanted to let you know there are a lot more of us than you are probably aware of.
faith has always been such an arrogant concept to me. Even when sceptics can get believers to admit that saying "I believe on faith" is not a reliable path to the truth, they still see value in faith because they are also believe that their faith is special and the truth of the world. How convenient.
I will give this guy credit. He was able to understand the logical fallacies and how his beliefs don't fully align with logic, etc. I don't think you changed his mind, but you might have given him something to consider.
One of the oldest scams is to collect tithe from fools by telling them that they're born in sin & there's a better place after death, but to be saved a spot they must repent & believe the story that a dude was sacrificed 2000 years ago to forgive their sins.
I’m overjoyed in my decision to EXIT that CULT at 18 when I volunteered for the USAF. Uncle Sam sent me to the country of Turkey…that experience taught me that All faiths are about mind/body control and nothing more or less.
jeff here seems far more hopeful than 99.99% of the other callers iv heard here and other similer shows, when getting him to the problem with his faith and religion he doesint completly shut his brain down or run from the point, i like jeff, theres hope for jeff.
Mormonism, and maybe religion in general really breaks your brain. You get all caught up in the circular reasoning of the thing, and then when you finally allow yourself to think something outside of that circle, the whole thing comes crashing down. Getting out is like being in a tragic accident where you have to learn to walk again, but in this case you have to completely rewire how you reason in daily life, because the method you've become so accustomed to no longer makes sense to you anymore. It's quite an arduous and painful process.
Place your guess on whether our "Assault with a Deadly Weapon" Jim or the "Racqueteering" Pokey wil have the guts to show up to the live stream this Saturday. There's a poll on my Community page.
I grew up Mormon (never believed it, got away as soon as I could). There is a good reason Aliester Crowley was fascinated with Joseph Smith. He followed the example of Joseph Smith (and others) in the process of building his own cult.
At least Crowley's primary axiom was "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. So long as it hurt no one." I'm an atheist but if all religions included this axiom then at least their adherents would have some degree of free choice.
Neppy the Convict alias Owersmem Brontwtwn claims that the question begging 'fine tuning' argument proves that there is an omnipotent deity, despite the fact that an omnipotent deity would have no need for fine tuning. Such a deity could command that life be created that would find conditions on the planet Venus to be ideal and it would be so!
It's such a stupid argument. He's saying that there's some god who happens to care about the conditions of this particular one planet out of potentially trillions. And that god is going to set our one planet in some specific way so that it's not "1° closer or father" from the sun, for whatever he means. [And he doesn't know anything about it.] And that got is going to stop the wind on our planet to be a constant 300 mph, as if that was the default "setting". And we are "fine tuned" to make sure we don't have no feet or no emotion or no mouth. And all these stupid "what ifs" as if some supernatural being was the one personally making all these things the way it is. The REASON why none of those are "fine tuned" parameter is that we know NATURALISTCLY why those things are the way it is. IF our earth was in any of the way that Pokey says for NO reason, then THAT would be an evidence for god. Pokey is SO bad at making the fine tuning argument, we says things like, "what if there was no water". Guess what, for the first few hundred millions years on earth, there was no water. And for the first few billions years, earth was NOT hospitable. There wasn't even enough oxygen. But Pokey has NO understanding of this but thinks he does. He's so pathetic that he probably couldn't even keep his chiropractic license.
@@queuecee The "trillions" you mention testifies of God's awesome majesty. If God only created our solar system, he'd be a puny God. Humanity is the apple of God's eye and he surrounded us with the LANDSCAPING of the cosmos to show us just how much he adores those he created in his image & likeness. All of the 100's of fine-tuning entities that are required to be within a certain range PROVES GOD. There's just too many to have arrived at a certain range by CHANCE from NOTHING to do so without God being there to FINE TUNE EACH OF THEM so that life could not only exist and survive, but THRIVE. You're debunked.
Neppy the Convict, alias Orwensen Bworten, regurgitates the same 'ol fallacious spam and maintains their perfect record of zero sound arguments for any God existing.
I almost think this was some athiest calling in and having with a character. His wonderful reveal of The Rock being one of the things he truly loves. It'd be like a Rabbi calling in and professing his love of Bad Boys II. It's so adorably quirky with that Midwest accent.
The Convict Neppy, alias Wrensceston Dwanson, offers up another serving of fallacies and maintains their perfect record of zero sound arguments for a God.
NEPy: Slanders atheists in every thread When someone fights back: NEPy: Literally reports them to YT for personal attacks despite making thousands of them himself
No, I rpt them if they mention my true or not past. I don't mind the usual name-calling but the other is un-needed harassment that's beyond the pale and everybody knows it. I'm the biggest enemy anybody could have, but God's my boss and he doesn't want that kind of thing from me. Jesus is our example or should be.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Speaking of harassment beyond the pail, do you remember the comment you posted to me last week saying you're glad that my idol John Lennon is burning Hell and that you hoped I'd be joining him one day?
@@Sundae_Times Wow. I said that? Send me the comment to prove it, because I didn't mean to say that and I don't think I did. Because I don't want anybody to go to hell, because it seems I ALONE know the extent of HORROR that hell truly is. I've been upset at my own walk with the Lord, because I've been watching a lot of videos on what God has shared with others, such as TRUE LIFE is the time you spend w/ the Lord in private and NOT when you worship on Sunday morning. Another Christian woman went to hell because although she "took back" her cheating husband, when she died she went to hell because she REFUSED to forgive him. The Bible is clear that if we don't forgive others, God will not forgive us.
On my first reading, at first I thought it signalled an intentional piss-take, a wink to readers with critical thinking ability. I then read further and realised the author was as stupid as the people he was trying to con...
I commented, on the originsl clip, that it was quaint that caller thought we might giggle nervously at the word "bosom". I find it hilarious that the term he used for this nervous giggle was "titter". That he thought one might be titilating yet missed the other.😂😂
The feeling of the lord = Nothing more than personal feelings found in all religions a human wants to attribute to when they yearn for a strong feeling
I used to go a mormon church sometimes when I stayed overnight with my cousins. After the big group meeting where the Pastor proselytizes (mass?), they break everyone up into different groups... at least these two churches did. Men in one, women in another, and kids together in the last one. In the kids group, I was full of questions. Mostly the "how do you know?" type. After a few questions I would always be asked to go wait outside so the rest of them could talk without me. (I think I was 10-12 or something). Didn't really mean too much to me then, it was just like being asked to sit in the hall at school. Now looking back on it though, it's a bit scary how voices that question things have to be silenced rather than answered... assumingly because there was no good answer?
Truly, the height of comedy is hearing the follower of one religion scoffing at other people's religions as if other religions are all obvious horseshit and his isn't. As Mark Twain said, "The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." Sadly, most theists seem unable (or unwilling) to connect the dots like Twain did.
I propose that we all refer to him as "the failed chiro-quacktor" from this point forward. He needs to be constantly reminded that he is a failed fraud.
Oh, I go all the way kid. I PROVE YOU'RE WRONG. No matter what you want to call the ONE-CELLED ANIMAL at the bottom of "The tree of life" it's still a species of the set of AMOEBA. You have to have a ONE-CELLED ANIMAL to transition into MULTICELLULAR ANIMALS. Of course, that's IMPOSSIBLE to happen, but that's not the topic. You're debunked by those facts. DO YOU WANNA RE-READ THEM AGAIN - DO YA WANNA - WANNA? lol
I've not had a good experience with theists claiming to VERBATIM quote me. For example, if I said, "For evolution, it doesn't matter whether life was started naturalistically or by god," they might just change the quote to ,"It doesn't matter whether life was started naturalistically or by god." They take out the very important, "for evolution," and then start the next clause as if the sentence started from, "It doesn't matter..." And they can still say that it was a VERBATIM quote, because it technically was. It just didn't convey the original meaning, the quote was cherry-picked, and it was misrepresented as if a sentence clause was the full sentence. So beware theists claiming VERBATIM quotes.
@@sideboob6851 Not just that, I show specifically how HE is being dishonest, but he just gaslights and pretends that he "got" me.🤦♂ That's some strong cognitive dissonance there... or just sheer dishonesty.
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED Hey FloBloJoKeBoi! I'm amazed that you still have the temerity to show up here after that completely humiliating flogging that QueCee gave you in that debate and here in the comments since the debate.
You're no challenge. Give me one fact that proves a Godless reality or shut up and admit that you're no challenge to me or any other competent Christian. All us Christians have are stories? It's not a "STORY" that new anatomy (evolution) NEVER HAPPENS. Based on that fact, I can predict that all offspring from this moment forward in any human, plant or animal will only have anatomy IDENTICAL to the entirety of their ancestry ALL THE WAY BACK TO ADAM & EVE!!! It's no "STORY" that NOTHING of the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism has EVER BEEN OBSERVED (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy). Anybody else?
@@borthwrenblanston6632 If I told you I was the second coming of Jesus, would you believe me? No. But you can't prove I'm not the second coming of Jesus, meaning I am in fact the second coming of Jesus. You can't prove a negative.
As someone who escaped Mormonism in his 40s, my heart really goes out to Jeff. The church has perfected the science of indoctrination
My heart goes out to you and the victims (not saying you are that kind of victim but a victim of indoctrination) that were told by the elders to forgive their rapist or be excommunicated which, as you know, is a thing that makes you a pariah in the society you live in, including your own family.
I knew a girl that got involved with the Philadelphia Church and was abused so badly that she took her own life. Different sects, same abuse.
I wish you all well on your travels in the reality we live in. :)
Hope you're doing alright and not went too crazy.
It's such a disservice that religions folks do to children. They're not really taught how to operate life without strict rules and a god watching you.
Once that's gone...there's a fair amount that can't handle having to think for themselves
jeff seems like a thoroughly decent fella - stupid - but decent
My heart goes out to all mormon children around here (Utah), but especially the FLDS ones. "God" forbid they discover they are gay at some point, their family life is just over if they come out.
I think JW gives them a run for their money.
"What does that feel like?" "A burning in my bosom"
What an unfortunate time to get heartburn
indigestion I guess
Tits on fire,lol.
I gotta give the caller credit. He sounds like he has enough integrity to admit he has a lot to think about. He seems pretty self aware compared to many of the other callers.
Not really he said he became Mormon when he moved to Utah
I don't see how that negates what Renacujo said at all @@melodygarrison7531
he seems like a person who is easily influenced or takes on the beliefs of the people around him.
@Mouse_007 that's true. I still think it's good he can question, but at some point one has to figure out where they stand in general and not be swayed into such life changing beliefs so easily.
@renacuajo4916 Absolutely. I like where his mind was headed at times during the conversation. I hope he keeps thinking and talking to people .
Defending Joseph Smith: An Attorney's Worst Nightmare.
I laughed at that
I got the image of Phoenix Wright being called in to defend him, and running away screaming.
I think he defended himself 😂
🤣🤣🤣
Or a security company.
This is probably my favorite caller ever. A good guy, and an honest guy…
About as honest as a congenital liar can be.
Doesn't answer the questions asked and constantly interrupts ...
@@c.guydubois8270 It is because he honestly does not know how to answer these questions which perplex his untested mind. He is green as a skeptic. It takes time to battle down the wall of delusion for certain people stuck in a bad habit of blind faith.
@@mrsnakesmrnot8499 yes , I came out of belief 30+ years past. Tolerance for the same old BS is wearing thin. I'll try to be more charitable in the future.... Thanks
He proudly claims to be educated with a degree in English. That entails comprehension skills.
🎵Dumb de dum dum dumb🎵
@@mrsnakesmrnot8499He is not a skeptic in any sense of the word.
I love Jeff’s reaction to something new is “ooh” he gives me kind midwestern neighbor vibes
when it hits him that he's completely in error and he goes "ope" it's absolutely confirmed.
Easy come, easy go. No big loss either way. Except for this: weather vane Jeff, with his garbage epistemology in tow, votes.
It's a little bit like Ned Flanders.
@@ArenHill EXACTLY I just blanked on his name for some reason lol
At least he has an open mind. Perhaps too much so, but it sure beats the opposite.
This caller sounded like he was an actor playing Ned Flanders from the Simpsons.
Hahaha ! Yup.
Several times throughout this call, I felt that the questions he was asking, and the way that he walked right into several logical fallacies and then graciously acknowledged that his position was fallacious- it seemed like he was almost a plant, put there by the show hosts for entertainment value. (He’s also my favourite caller ever, because I am an ex-Mormon with 40+ years under the control of the Corporation, and about 5 on the outside).
I felt the same. Seemed perfectly packaged for a conversion, when in reality, it would be a messy affair.
I was a Mormon most of life and that’s what made me an atheist. I started to deconstruct the religion and then religion as a whole. I figured if millions of people can believe the nonsense of Mormonism then it should be no different of a mentality with religion in general. People always say Mormonism is crazy and weird, but in reality it’s no different than any other religious belief.
I think the difference here is that Mormonism is a very clear and obvious fabrication. It hasn't got the veil of time to hide it's origins but stands 'naked' as it were, trying to claim it's fully dressed. We know for a fact who wrote the book, when, how and why. We can actually look at the progress of his bank balance. 🤣
Unsophisticated people may be unable to distinguish social pressure and custom from real evidence, and thus fall prey to established religion but it takes a special sort of determined blindness to fall for a cult con of that nature.
These people that say Mormonism is crazy...are Christians that don't realise their own bullshit.
They think the exact same way about every other religion.
I just read the Bible and boom... This is incoherent bullshit breaking every law of logic, physics, chemistry and biology. It's not just special pleading, its suspending reality to believe in something for which there is no evidence.
Joseph seems like he stole the ideas of other people. Some of whom have been dead for centuries. He was a conman. Similar to L. RON. I was also a Mormon. I noticed what you mentioned. When you deconstruct Mormonism and compare it to previous religions, like the catholics, many of the same indoctrination tactics and control mechanisms were repeated.
Same
“I’m a Mormon” was a multi-billion dollar advertising campaign by the Mormon church from like 2004-2013
I am 50 and just left the church, after being born into it. I have no idea how this came up in my feed, but I'm here for it.
🥳🎉❤️
welcome to the club
Google knows all!
@@TheGunguy461 For real, man!
Have you been watching science videos recently?
That wasn't just a challenge to Jeff's faith, it was a total dissection of it! At least he was honest enough to concede he felt like the previous caller defending voodoo.
but Jeff Has the true faith! And he just has faith that his faith is true! Checkmate atheists!
I do that with the Mormon Elders and Sisters that come by my house. They go into logic lock when they try to defend their book. The conversations usually go like this:
Me: "The Book of Mormon is racist because it said that white people settled the Americas and it was their sin that turned their skin to brown and black."
Them: "Yeah, well, actually, that has since been changed through Apostolic Revelation to our current Prophet.."
Me: "So Joseph Smith got it wrong in the Book of Mormon then?"
Them: (slight panic) "Uh, no, he's our Prophet, he gave us the true word."
Me: (smiling evilly) "Okay, then Joseph Smith had it right and your current Prophet had it wrong. Therefore the Book of Mormon is racist per my first point."
Them: (now you can see the panic in their eyes) "No! That's not it at all! We've had Apostolic Revelation!"
Me: (grinning like the Cheshire Cat) "Ok, so then your current leaders have it right and Joseph Smith has it wrong." (You can see gears grinding to a halt behind their eyes now) "You see, you can't have it both ways. Either Joseph Smith is wrong or your current leaders are wrong. So who's wrong here?
Them: "We need to be going now..."
@@dieseljester3466 I just tell them to fuck off or I'll let my dog out.
You can just hear Jeff's brain lock up over the "Reformed Egyptian" logic.
I was baptised as a Mormon when I was 17. I only lasted 9 months. As soon as I started to question things and think critically nothing made sense. Especially when the priest told me to be more childlike and to stop questioning everything.
Mormon "priests" are not authority figures. You mean "Bishop" or someone else. You never got too involved or you would have known that (which is a good thing...).
13:45 this is hilarious. He has no idea how nearly identical Hubbard and Smith are 😅😅😅
Mark Twain described the Book of Mormon as “ chloroform in print.” Read his travel book Roughing It for the chapters covering his visit to Salt Lake Lake City when Mormonism was a new thing. The story of Brigham Young’s troubles following the gift of a tin whistle for one of his myriad children is unforgettable.
Well it has the "Book of Ether" and it came to pass that thou shall fall asleep while reading it.
That was a great call! It's always so encouraging and heartwarming when a caller really listens, asks genuine questions and cares about truth and consistency and empathy for fellow humans and isn't stuck clinging to ways to avoid cognitive dissonance! I hope Jeff finds all that truth he seems willing to seek!
Agree!
I had some Mormons on the door step the other day and was having a conversation. I asked why The Book of Mormon was written when they already had The Bible. He said it was as we became more attuned we needed a new book. So the question that I asked was, If The Bible is the word of God and God created us, why didn't he create us to have the full understanding right from the start? He said he didn't know and would need to go back and get advice, I haven't seen him since.
This is the best Eugene Levy impression I've ever heard. Adored every second of this.
The South Park episode about Joeseph Smith/Mormons is HILARIOUS!!!!
I applaud Jeff for being respectful and rational when presented with information that clearly contradicted his beliefs.
The holy spirit feels like a burning in the chest? Sounds more like a case of heartburn.
The "burning" feels good, but after I became an atheist, I found I can cause the same burning, usually at will. The feelings of the spirit are a product of the mind.
swallowing so much delusion in such large gulps will do that
At least it's not a burning in the pants lol
"September Dawn" is a must see movie about the mormons murdering 120 settlers traveling to california in the middle 1800's and taking a vow to never discuss it, even amoung themselves. It is in my top three movies that I must see alone due to the inability to hold back my tears. Incredably moving movie based on an actual event.
Don't forget the Mountain Meadows Massacre... I get pissed off even typing that name
Truth withstands scrutiny. Jeff is at least open to the idea that he could be wrong.
🤣Defending Joseph Smith🤣🤣
"Is there anything you couldn't believe based on faith," is my favorite line of reasoning I've learned from AXP since my deconversion. It always seems to come down to this point anytime I deal with people in my life questioning my deconversion.
A Mormon with a unique perspective is an oxymoron
An ant with a distinct personality 😂
Think you mean oxymormon
@@Esteban45696beat me to it!
oxymormon would be a funny play on words, but I see you are not joking. yes indeed, oxymoron is correct 👍
He read The Book of Mormon and came away thinking it was A-OK????😆
and he saw the play first! baffling.
Probably one of the best arguments about faith. Let's embrace doubt/skepticism and embrace what we can test and verify. Stay away from "religion" (i.e. what we can't test or verify).
This is my favourite caller by far, he seems like genuinely such a nice guy, I hope he's doing well
Wait until this Mormon finds out he believes in the same God as Muslims.
We, Latter-day Saints believe we ALL believe in the same God, there's only one God.
Wait until they find out that Yahweh was one of many gods in the Canaanite pantheon, he was a war/storm God and he had a wife-god named Asharah.
@@MrArtist7777really? Except the word Elohim in the Bible is plural. It refers to multiple gods.
@theundone777 yeah! Yahweh was just one of them
@@theundone777This is my favorite detail that I feel makes it really obvious that Christianity is mythology that evolved from older mythology. The whole "there were 13(?) Canaanite deities who each had a tribe they were in charge of" thing made it finally make sense why God has a "chosen people". I've always thought that was a weird detail to have in your religion, even before I was atheist. Why would God have a favorite people when he created everyone? Why put that in the holy book of a religion you're trying to spread to everyone?
I feel like the pantheon beginning also has something to do with why Christianity claims to be monotheistic, but it's usually polytheistic, but there could be another reason for that. I haven't exactly followed the evolutionary line of Christianity to see why we have the father, son, and holy Ghost, and almost every sect is more Jesus-centric than God-centric. Having the focus on Jesus always seemed strange to me, too, when God is supposed to be the only god.
This guy saying 'darn' is probably the most extreme thing he's ever done in his life.
Great call! He was able to listen and reason! Nice change of pace 😅
My dad is probably the most famous Mormonism attacker, we get recognized in grocery stores and people know our last name. This state is a cult. Utah is insane.
Are you approached or do you recieve pushback in any way ?
@@nelsondnazariotorres8732 Nothing violent or outright hostile, just sometimes people try to convince us of getting some lost faith back in our lives, or convincing to come join them to their ward, stuff like that.
Mostly ostracism, I’ve tried to keep it pretty secret that I’m atheist for most of my life until recently where I just don’t care and I’m sick of hiding.
@@O.Reagano is there any Atheist societies in Utah ? Not to meet and discuss atheism , that would be absurd , but to just go and have a beer , and get some support .
@@michellebrown4903 I think I’ve met maybe 20 atheists (that I know of) in Utah.
There’s probably a minor MINOR community somewhere, I’d guess SLC but I’ve never heard of one honestly :/
@@O.ReaganoI’m an exmo. Raised in Utah and actively rabidly Mormon for over 35 years. I’m an atheist. There are a bunch of us around in SLC (I live here now). A lot. There are Oasis (secular humanists) groups across the Wasatch front. In Salt Lake and Summit county, Mormons are now in the minority.
The government is still absolutely majority Mormon for the state (lots of work to do in that regard). I just wanted to let you know there are a lot more of us than you are probably aware of.
"I'm no dummy" - is a mormon.
😂
Mormon, best described by removing the second "m."
Hey go easy on Jeff lol
He's right. It's not a question of intelligence. It's a result of daily brainwashing.
What’s really sad is that 17 million people actually believe this rubbish
17 MILLION! Letting that sink in…
You can guarantee those numbers will be significantly inflated.
@@peterkotara Say 1 million people…Still, let that sink in.
@@never_board 😂 Indeed.
17? More like 4 billion. There is nothing specially different about Mormonism
The musical was absolutely hilarious and brilliant, saw it here in Sydney. 😅
I would like so much to be able to write songs like that.
My absolute favorite memory of New York was seeing that play on Broadway. I'm from Utah, so of course ALL the jokes landed
Congratulations on 410k Subscribers AXP ❤❤❤
faith has always been such an arrogant concept to me. Even when sceptics can get believers to admit that saying "I believe on faith" is not a reliable path to the truth, they still see value in faith because they are also believe that their faith is special and the truth of the world. How convenient.
Wow! So nice to see one of these that the caller is open to actually thinking.
Conversations like this helped wake me up from mormonism. Good on you Jeff.
I will give this guy credit. He was able to understand the logical fallacies and how his beliefs don't fully align with logic, etc. I don't think you changed his mind, but you might have given him something to consider.
NEPy: Slanders atheists on twitter
When someone says something back: "I'M BEING PERSECUTED!"
Who? And is that related to this video somehow? 🤔
Florida Boy: "Never mind all the science, my book says a thing."
The laugh at 12:54 is more gold than gold plates.
This is like Flanders calling in
Look at the end of the call - I don't think Flanders would have been so open to new thoughts 🤔
"Gee, as melon-scratchers go, that's a honeydoodle!"
One of the oldest scams is to collect tithe from fools by telling them that they're born in sin & there's a better place after death, but to be saved a spot they must repent & believe the story that a dude was sacrificed 2000 years ago to forgive their sins.
Dumb dumb dumb 🎵🎶 ... Member? 🤣 I have flashbacks
Great re-upload!. I like the short versions
Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb !!!!! { South Park Mormon EP}
What a lovely conversation.
"We like to be called a 14 syllable term, not a 2 syllable word" 🙃
tbf "LDS" is also a preferred term for them. But c'mon, it's not like WE turned "mormon" into a pejorative. That was their actions!
Even LDS is 3 syllables. A 50% increase.
Otoh...
Presbyterians 5.
Episcopalians 6.
7th Day Adventists 6.
St Loony by-the-glen 6
this are the calls i watch this show for... a real conversation
Does the Satan character have an unholy ghost as a sidekick? These are adults having this conversation.
I’m overjoyed in my decision to EXIT that CULT at 18 when I volunteered for the USAF. Uncle Sam sent me to the country of Turkey…that experience taught me that All faiths are about mind/body control and nothing more or less.
jeff here seems far more hopeful than 99.99% of the other callers iv heard here and other similer shows, when getting him to the problem with his faith and religion he doesint completly shut his brain down or run from the point, i like jeff, theres hope for jeff.
Thank you for your patience
13:33..."And see The Rock! The Rock is excellent!"
I loved that part.
When this guy said how much he loves the movie "The Rock," and that we should see it ,I was dying.
Mormonism, and maybe religion in general really breaks your brain. You get all caught up in the circular reasoning of the thing, and then when you finally allow yourself to think something outside of that circle, the whole thing comes crashing down. Getting out is like being in a tragic accident where you have to learn to walk again, but in this case you have to completely rewire how you reason in daily life, because the method you've become so accustomed to no longer makes sense to you anymore. It's quite an arduous and painful process.
man you dismantled every ounce of his argument. wow. gorgeous
Place your guess on whether our "Assault with a Deadly Weapon" Jim or the "Racqueteering" Pokey wil have the guts to show up to the live stream this Saturday.
There's a poll on my Community page.
I love this guy. Hope it all goes well for him
I grew up Mormon (never believed it, got away as soon as I could). There is a good reason Aliester Crowley was fascinated with Joseph Smith. He followed the example of Joseph Smith (and others) in the process of building his own cult.
At least Crowley's primary axiom was "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. So long as it hurt no one." I'm an atheist but if all religions included this axiom then at least their adherents would have some degree of free choice.
Respect to this caller for accepting argument.
All i can do is put my head down and just laugh out loud
I lost it when he started talking about The Rock. 🤣
Neppy the Convict alias Owersmem Brontwtwn claims that the question begging 'fine tuning' argument proves that there is an omnipotent deity, despite the fact that an omnipotent deity would have no need for fine tuning. Such a deity could command that life be created that would find conditions on the planet Venus to be ideal and it would be so!
It's such a stupid argument. He's saying that there's some god who happens to care about the conditions of this particular one planet out of potentially trillions. And that god is going to set our one planet in some specific way so that it's not "1° closer or father" from the sun, for whatever he means. [And he doesn't know anything about it.]
And that got is going to stop the wind on our planet to be a constant 300 mph, as if that was the default "setting". And we are "fine tuned" to make sure we don't have no feet or no emotion or no mouth. And all these stupid "what ifs" as if some supernatural being was the one personally making all these things the way it is.
The REASON why none of those are "fine tuned" parameter is that we know NATURALISTCLY why those things are the way it is. IF our earth was in any of the way that Pokey says for NO reason, then THAT would be an evidence for god.
Pokey is SO bad at making the fine tuning argument, we says things like, "what if there was no water". Guess what, for the first few hundred millions years on earth, there was no water. And for the first few billions years, earth was NOT hospitable. There wasn't even enough oxygen.
But Pokey has NO understanding of this but thinks he does. He's so pathetic that he probably couldn't even keep his chiropractic license.
@@queuecee The "trillions" you mention testifies of God's awesome majesty. If God only created our solar system, he'd be a puny God. Humanity is the apple of God's eye and he surrounded us with the LANDSCAPING of the cosmos to show us just how much he adores those he created in his image & likeness.
All of the 100's of fine-tuning entities that are required to be within a certain range PROVES GOD. There's just too many to have arrived at a certain range by CHANCE from NOTHING to do so without God being there to FINE TUNE EACH OF THEM so that life could not only exist and survive, but THRIVE. You're debunked.
"joseph Smith probably didn't have a Tylenol"...
Impossible to pick the best Jeff-ism
Neppy the Convict, alias Orwensen Bworten, regurgitates the same 'ol fallacious spam and maintains their perfect record of zero sound arguments for any God existing.
Good job Jeff!! Keep questioning!!
I almost think this was some athiest calling in and having with a character. His wonderful reveal of The Rock being one of the things he truly loves. It'd be like a Rabbi calling in and professing his love of Bad Boys II. It's so adorably quirky with that Midwest accent.
100%, this has to be a character
Thank you for calling Jeff.
This guy was awesome…even though he was wrong.👍🏾
Now Jeff's a person who can really be saved
The Convict Neppy, alias Wrensceston Dwanson, offers up another serving of fallacies and maintains their perfect record of zero sound arguments for a God.
Jeff's about to get in real trouble with his bishop.😄
That was surprisingly wholesome. Hope he found his way out.
his way out to what? to atheism?
@@jaromsmiss Out and away from the Mormon cult. Doesn't have to be atheism.
NEPy: Slanders atheists in every thread
When someone fights back:
NEPy: Literally reports them to YT for personal attacks despite making thousands of them himself
No, I rpt them if they mention my true or not past. I don't mind the usual name-calling but the other is un-needed harassment that's beyond the pale and everybody knows it. I'm the biggest enemy anybody could have, but God's my boss and he doesn't want that kind of thing from me. Jesus is our example or should be.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Speaking of harassment beyond the pail, do you remember the comment you posted to me last week saying you're glad that my idol John Lennon is burning Hell and that you hoped I'd be joining him one day?
@@Sundae_Times Wow. I said that? Send me the comment to prove it, because I didn't mean to say that and I don't think I did. Because I don't want anybody to go to hell, because it seems I ALONE know the extent of HORROR that hell truly is.
I've been upset at my own walk with the Lord, because I've been watching a lot of videos on what God has shared with others, such as TRUE LIFE is the time you spend w/ the Lord in private and NOT when you worship on Sunday morning. Another Christian woman went to hell because although she "took back" her cheating husband, when she died she went to hell because she REFUSED to forgive him. The Bible is clear that if we don't forgive others, God will not forgive us.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Like most of your threads, you've deleted it now. I'll send you a screenshot from Hell in a trillion plus years.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 You also said that because I don't know the Lord, I have no worth as a person. I disagree.
A wonderful dialogue! ❤
"The Book of Mormon" is a fun musical, I'll agree with the caller on that one point.
great caller!
Have you noticed the angel Moroni's name is just Moron with an I on the end???
Have you noticed that a Mormon is simply a Moron with an additional ‘m’?
On my first reading, at first I thought it signalled an intentional piss-take, a wink to readers with critical thinking ability. I then read further and realised the author was as stupid as the people he was trying to con...
Clearly the angel was Italian.
I commented, on the originsl clip, that it was quaint that caller thought we might giggle nervously at the word "bosom".
I find it hilarious that the term he used for this nervous giggle was "titter".
That he thought one might be titilating yet missed the other.😂😂
This guy actually sound like a good guy
At least until you start thinking too deeply into his apostate comment.
I'd love to know where he is now.
From the seeds of doubt, and when watered with critical thinking and skepticism, a small bush of truth will grow.
The feeling of the lord = Nothing more than personal feelings found in all religions a human wants to attribute to when they yearn for a strong feeling
At least this caller was honest.
Sounds like the type of dude who with enough prodding might be persuaded into getting out of that cult
Lovely man. Honest. That’s all you can ask for.
Seems like there's Hope for this caller.
I used to go a mormon church sometimes when I stayed overnight with my cousins. After the big group meeting where the Pastor proselytizes (mass?), they break everyone up into different groups... at least these two churches did. Men in one, women in another, and kids together in the last one. In the kids group, I was full of questions. Mostly the "how do you know?" type. After a few questions I would always be asked to go wait outside so the rest of them could talk without me. (I think I was 10-12 or something). Didn't really mean too much to me then, it was just like being asked to sit in the hall at school. Now looking back on it though, it's a bit scary how voices that question things have to be silenced rather than answered... assumingly because there was no good answer?
Truly, the height of comedy is hearing the follower of one religion scoffing at other people's religions as if other religions are all obvious horseshit and his isn't. As Mark Twain said, "The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." Sadly, most theists seem unable (or unwilling) to connect the dots like Twain did.
Poor Jeff has spent his time as a Mormon tap-dancing around all the things pointed out to him here. He just didn’t want to look at them.
when asked a direct question, they can NOT answer... they always go on a tangent (story) .
"you've given me about a hundred pounds to think about here"
Jeff is like a 21st century Rumi
NEPy thinks "I'm right, you're wrong" counts as a "meticulous presentation" and is enough to debunk me.
I propose that we all refer to him as "the failed chiro-quacktor" from this point forward. He needs to be constantly reminded that he is a failed fraud.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 I purpose a slight modification: "felonious failed chiro-quacktor".
Well, he thinks, "I win, you lose," is how you win these things that he calls "debates" (they are not).
Oh, I go all the way kid. I PROVE YOU'RE WRONG. No matter what you want to call the ONE-CELLED ANIMAL at the bottom of "The tree of life" it's still a species of the set of AMOEBA. You have to have a ONE-CELLED ANIMAL to transition into MULTICELLULAR ANIMALS. Of course, that's IMPOSSIBLE to happen, but that's not the topic. You're debunked by those facts. DO YOU WANNA RE-READ THEM AGAIN - DO YA WANNA - WANNA? lol
@@queuecee Oh yes, they are debates and I always win, as I just proved..................again.
This dude seems like a good guy and he’s being very honest. He’s been lured into some very ridiculous ideas by their utility, not by their truthiness.
I've not had a good experience with theists claiming to VERBATIM quote me. For example, if I said, "For evolution, it doesn't matter whether life was started naturalistically or by god," they might just change the quote to ,"It doesn't matter whether life was started naturalistically or by god."
They take out the very important, "for evolution," and then start the next clause as if the sentence started from, "It doesn't matter..." And they can still say that it was a VERBATIM quote, because it technically was. It just didn't convey the original meaning, the quote was cherry-picked, and it was misrepresented as if a sentence clause was the full sentence.
So beware theists claiming VERBATIM quotes.
@@sideboob6851 Not just that, I show specifically how HE is being dishonest, but he just gaslights and pretends that he "got" me.🤦♂ That's some strong cognitive dissonance there... or just sheer dishonesty.
Florida thinks shouting VERBATIM automatically makes him correct.
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED Hey FloBloJoKeBoi! I'm amazed that you still have the temerity to show up here after that completely humiliating flogging that QueCee gave you in that debate and here in the comments since the debate.
You're no challenge. Give me one fact that proves a Godless reality or shut up and admit that you're no challenge to me or any other competent Christian.
All us Christians have are stories? It's not a "STORY" that new anatomy (evolution) NEVER HAPPENS. Based on that fact, I can predict that all offspring from this moment forward in any human, plant or animal will only have anatomy IDENTICAL to the entirety of their ancestry ALL THE WAY BACK TO ADAM & EVE!!!
It's no "STORY" that NOTHING of the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism has EVER BEEN OBSERVED (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy).
Anybody else?
@@borthwrenblanston6632 If I told you I was the second coming of Jesus, would you believe me? No. But you can't prove I'm not the second coming of Jesus, meaning I am in fact the second coming of Jesus. You can't prove a negative.
😂😂😂 this was the best caller. I really liked this guy though, the difference was he actually listened instead of just being defensive the whole time.
I hope the Osmonds aren't listening 😆
Great job here.