The Dot on 4v identification for 4v open chamber is not a good rule to go by. There are lots of quench chamber heads with dots, it just means a casting revision for 1971. The 4v closed chambers that have dots next to the 4 they have engineering part # D1AE-GA . The 1970 4v heads have no dots so are easy to identify .
I just picked up a '71 F100 Ranger with a 302 Vin for $1000 from some distant family. Popped the hood to find a 351C with the 4● heads. This gives me hope that I might get a lil more lucky and it be a closed chamber.
@@austinlane5533 Most people wanting to use the Cleavland head is better off with the 2V heads cause they are easier to work with and the 4V heads has to have a lot more carb used and more compression and a monster cam used in it before you can get the power out of them that they are capable of. Any motor that a golf ball can roll through the intake runners is going to need a lot of fuel to get the power out off it
I'm an Australian living in Sydney and I've got a minty pair of those closed chamber 2V quench heads. They are destined for my future 351C build. Thanks for mentioning us. Cheers mate
My dad sold me his 1970 Mercury Cougar with a Cleveland 2V in 1990. That engine configuration was an excellent daily driver for both city and highway. Thanks for your video.
The 2V Cleveland probably should have been closed chambered heads and a 4V intake, then the 4V a 393 or some such. The ports are honestly too big for the smaller 351 displacement.
I used to own a very rare 71' Cyclone Spoiler with the M code. The heads had the "Dot" next to the 4 on the corner of the head despite being closed chamber heads. It was an all matching numbers drivetrain with 83k original miles. And I know they were closed chamber because I had to replace the heads gaskets.
@@AutoRestoMod I saw a youtube clip a guy explained that big dot is open chamber and small dot is closed chamber. I have a 1971 M-code mach1 with closed chamber and small dot.
That information may be specific to Australia. So much Cleveland information is wrong because people take Aussie data and mix it up with North American data. The dot might not mean anything. I have had open and closed chamber 4V heads with no dot. It simply isn't a reliable sign. Get a cheap optical camera from Amazon or eBay and know for sure.
@@mcyclonegt The heads for 1970 are 4 no dot 64cc PN>DOAE. the difference in it and the 1971 head is 4 with dote and 66 cc PN: D1AZ. the M code engine was the same for 1970 and 1971 but the Chamber volume changed the compression from 11 to 1 for 1970 and 300 HP, to 10.5 for 1971 and 285 hp.
I completely lucked out on Craigslist buying a M400/C6 for $600. somebody put the Aussie 2V's and Eddlebrock performer400. (But used UMBRELLA SEALS😂) Causing that terrible misfire and sold it all to me... So I threaded and 1/2 studded/roller rocker and ported/matched them. .581 lift lunati cam. HOLY SHIIIIT!
The reason about so many heads would’ve be the the Ford engineer’s experimenting with different types of head to achieve perfection and evolve , the reason they offered so many could be so many different ways they tried so they released them to see they performed so they could keep improving, probably Ford had a vast numbers of bright engineers that were experimenting in different levels , 60’s and 70’s were a great era where people had unlimited amount of creativity could be just huge amounts of ideas to channel into a few ! All the best from Adelaide South Australia 🇦🇺
Hey mate Tim from Australia here. The Aussie closed chamber heads came off the 302 Cleveland, they are small port, 2v valves and have a 57cc chamber. They will yield around 10.7 to 1 comp depending on deck hieght. Most Aussie 2v heads have no marking in the corner.
Thank you very much for mentioning the Australian Cleveland 2V closed chamber heads. I remember hearing a little bit about them many years ago when they were first brought to the attention of American Ford lovers. To me it would seem the way to go for street Cleveland engines, if only there was a way to get them to the U.S. at a reasonable shipping rate.
The Aussie 2V head came on the 1975 to 1984/5 Clevelands , the four barrel 351 Cleveland had 2V heads but these are NOT the ones you want in the US , you want the 302 Cleveland four barrel 2V Closed Chamber heads , use US 4V valves in them on a standard US Cleveland and you get 10.5 to 11 to 1 compression as the Aussie 302 Cleveland has small chambers ! And they are worth about $100 a pair in 2023 Australia as the 302 Clevelands were seen as junk throw away motors ! And freight please about $150 us to west coast !
@@AutoRestoMod yeah, but 98% of them would be still be good cores, if a major engine reconditioner has been at them,they may need new guides installed.
To make u even crazier, Ford made some experimental 400 blocks that may have both 335 and 385 series transmission bolt patterns which may or may not be drilled and tapped. To avoid detenation on open chamber heads, use a 1975 Ford Elite Duraspark distributor. It has the high compression advance curve and electronic top with small cap. To use a 2V 400 intake on 4V heads a 1/2" aluminum spacer will raise it to the top of the head port. Also works on 3V CHI heads. You will have to cut the manifold to clear the distributor. Ain't Clevelands fun.
Thanks to my dad, I happily know nothing about them. He was a mechanic & wouldn't let anyone in our family buy "anything Cleveland". He absolutely loathed them, lol.
The 400 with the dual bolt patterns were from 1964. Look for an engine block casting starting with "D4." It was a one-year only product. Due to the fact Ford was having problems producing enough auto transmissions with the big 460 bolt patterns. I forget the name of the trannys, but they were cast iron rather than aluminum castings. In my whole life I only saw one of the D4 blocks, it was at a Ford parts show in Indianapolis right around Thanksgiving many, many years ago.
@@bobkonradi1027 The cast iron trans is the FMX and is the forerunner of the AOD. Thanks for the info on the block. The one I had was in a 1972 Mach 1 CJ with the C6 smallblock bolt pattern and that's the only one I've ever seen. Didn't think anything of it and sold it but kept the Holley Street Dominator manifold only to find out it didn't fit the rebuilt 351C. By then the block was gone. Oops.
@@psychoholicslag4801 I came up with some part #s and casting #s for our mystery dual-pattern 400 block. The part # is D3AE-6010-B. The casting #s are: D1AE-A2c or D3AE-b. The source I found said all the blocks were cast at the Michigan Casting Center. Some blocks from this source had casting flaws in the lifter gallery for blocks cast before March 2, 1977 (cast date 7c02)_ So beware if you're looking for one of them.
I just refreshed a 351 Cleveland that I raced about 20 years ago. I went a best of 8.90 1/4 mile on a 175 shot with factory iron closed chamber heads and factory crankshaft and the Chris Parker funnel web intake in a very light 81 Capri. I’ve gotten very lucky and collected bunch of Cleveland parts over the years. I’ve got two sets of 1970 Boss 302 heads in mint condition and two sets of 1971 4-V closed chamber heads in mint condition. I’ve gotten into the aftermarket Cleveland block (Clevor)and aluminum 3V CHI cylinder heads. I never would’ve thought Cleveland factory parts would become so valuable. The Cleveland platform is the baddest small block out of all the manufacturers.
My experience with the Cleveland’s comes from a 351M in a Montego wagon and a 351C 2V in a 71 Cougar. The 351M in the wagon was what it was and the car would have benefited from at least a 400 as it would have moved that big gal around a little more efficiently. The Cougar, despite being a high mileage rust bucket when it bought it, benefited from some low buck tweaks such as dual exhaust and an open element air cleaner using taller filters for the likes of a Chevy 454 truck motor. The prevalent attitude toward 2V and 4V Cleveland’s in the 80s was that the 4V heads were great for racing/high rpm applications, but the 2Vs were better for all around street/daily driving. That’s about where it stopped as Ford had brought back a HO 302 and that seemed to get all the Ford attention in the enthusiast magazines. Of course there was the FE and some 385 coverage, but the 302 was getting all the attention if you weren’t running a Chevy 350. I’d say for a Cleveland performance application now days, the aluminum heads are the best route to go if you have the money. I think there’s more potential in the American 351 2V than anyone cares to admit. While I don’t have any good street racing stories with the ole Cougar, it did impress passengers when I put the gas pedal all the way to the floor, at least when it scratched 2nd with 14 inch 245 width rear tires. And when it accidents revved past 6k, it was still pulling when the stock 2V carb had less air flow restriction from air cleaner.
I tool a 1970 351 Cleveland 2V . Just some mild updates. Aluminum intake and a Holley 600. Couldn’t believe how much power this engine made for my 17 year old mind. Put this engine in my 56 Victoria.
the Aussie 2V close chamber heads are getting hard to find now here in Australia, most of us have snapped them up years ago,( plenty of 2V open chambers though) the new trend now in the aluminum 3V heads even better again. love this segment thanks
@@fknows1 yep , just go out of city's , many country wreckers have a couple of 302 Clevelands rusting away out the back , I worked for South Sydney council back in 2005 , my job was to smash the windows on abandoned cars so we could put the sling through and put them on the flat bed off to Sims metal at mascot, I ended up grabbing every ford, Holden , Chrysler V8 before the crusher , I had 12 massive pantecs full of motors , wheelie bins of four barrel Carbies and turbos , but I remember taking 22 sets of 302 Cleveland heads into Super flow heads at Liverpool in exchange for a set of ported Big Block Oldsmobile heads I ended up bolting on my small block 403 ci Oldsmobile V8. I thought it was a good deal at the time , as they were worth about $50 a set at the time . Wish I kept them !
@@JosephCowen-ru7upcool! I"ll ask Benny what he did with the heads, and if he remembers you, I'm sure he will still remember that many heads from 18 yrs ago, and yes clevelands were still fairly plentiful 18 yrs ago
I modified my 1978 351m heads to accept 7/16 stud mount rockers, 1.7 ratio Boss steel rockers from Comp. Ported them and had them milled. Also put forged flat top zero deck pistons and FULL ROLLER valvetrain with a Howards Rattler cam. Block was milled as well. Its not in the truck yet(4x2 F250) I think it will be a contender.
Isky made a very good bolt on kit to convert to adjustable drive-train. Three eighths into the head, seven sixteenth on the business end. Teflon pyshrod guide plates were provided also.
I bought a set of 302 Aussie Cleveland Heads. They heads were cheap, shipping was not. They were still a lot cheaper than a set of aluminum heads. Planning to send them in for machine work (machine down the pedestals and add screw in studs and guide plates). My understanding is that the only reason the 2V closed chamber heads exist is because they de stroked the 351 to make a 302 cleveland which in turn drastically lowered the compression ratio. To help mitigate this, they created the 2V closed chamber heads for their 302 Cleveland. Thus, my understanding is that the 2V closed chamber heads ONLY came on the 302 clevelands. But the Aussies were quick to swap out their 351 open chamber heads for the 302 closed chamber heads for a bump in compression.
You got it mate, only our 302 Cleveland and although the 302 was made here until about 1982 I'm not sure the 302's built after 1976 ish didn't go to the open chamber design. So all Aussie 302 heads may not be equal. Any Aussies got more info on this?
One thing I always found interesting, the Ford Cleveland heads actually came out before the Cleveland engine. The Boss 302 engine had Cleveland 4V heads and was available for the 1969 model year, The cleveland engine wasn't available until the 1970 model year.
just the mention of "Cleveland" makes my heart skip a few. I have a 3 speed '68 F100 that had a '70 2v, holley street dominator intake and a Q-jet. It was that way when I bought it. I can tell you some stories that you wouldn't believe. Will say that they don't make drum brakes that could stop it very quick. finally retired it back in 97 after it had sat until the valve started sticking. The 302 HO out of my 84 GT became my test mule. Wanted a real sleeper and created a Clevor with those magic Aussie heads. Never forget the machinist calling to question what the heck it was as none of the numbers matched his book. In process of installing disc brakes in between raising a family and working myself to a grave. That engine taught me to respect a dual point distributor. Pull on a plug wire that has a break at idle and see how long you laugh. Love the older Ford Stuff!!!!
Thank you for mentioning the Aussie 351 Clev’O , I’ve an Aussie delivered 1979 F100 with the Aussie made 351 Clev’O and yes in Australia they are holy ! I tried to buy parts from Auto Krafters for my made in Brazil 67-72 Bumpside Bronco and 79 F100 but you guys don’t ship internationally I was pretty disappointed so I am buying from CJ’s and LMC Truck ! Cheers
as a ford guy if i was going to build a 351 i would look at after marked heads because from what i have seen in vids, there are lots of goodies if you look for them
FYI the dot doesn’t mean open chamber. I have just had my 71 351c rebuild it has 4v closed chamber heads1 has a 4 with a dot the other has a 4 only both are closed chamber heads. Don’t know why or what the dot is for but with or without it will go fast Ricky Bobby!!! 😎
Have you heard about the racers that use to cut up cleveland heads and weld them back together to make a high flowing head for the inline 300 and supposedly make 625 hp?
Yes. I know that has been a thing. ruclips.net/video/RUfw5FBGlAk/видео.html Starting at 9:20ish the video shows the head (s?) and custom intake. Lee Shepard is the racer that did at least one of them and ran it in a Pinto drag car.
@@AutoRestoMod im thinking of paying homage to those racers and getting a set of aluminum Cleveland heads from promaxx and building it for one of my 300s and maybe find a torino to put it in… cause i like torinos and they may have more engine bay for it… ill find out for sure soon
There were actually quite a few successful drag racers over the years that used the Cleveland heads to make the inline 6 cylinder FORD engines. They typically ran in modified production classes. However, has anyone here seen the Ford V-12 engine that uses Cleveland heads ? It’s right here on RUclips. I think The Horsepower Monster and Fuel Junkie Racing have also posted videos on it. It’s a creation done by Jan Baker just up the road from me here in Georgia. It’s a 552 cubic inch V-12 all hand fabricated by Jan. He used two Windsor blocks with the front two cylinders cut off of block number 1 and the rear two cylinders cut off of block number 2. He aligned both blocks and welded them together. It’s a odd fire engine with two distributors operating independently, one for each cylinder bank. Three Cleveland 4- V closed chamber heads were cut into sections and welded together as needed. A billet 120 degree crank with a three and a half inch stroke was custom made by Henry Velasco. Other components include a set of 5.565” long Howards connecting rods, 12 custom 4.090” bore Arias pistons and more. The heads got a mild porting job and use 2.19” intake and 1.76” exhaust valves. Three different steel intake manifolds were fabricated. The first shakedown dyno runs were done in 2015 using TWO RARE FORD- AUTOLITE INLINE FOUR BARREL CARBS. They ran way too rich on 93 octane pump fuel for the 10.5 compression ratio. It made only 604 horsepower and 491 torque with many problems. By end of the first dyno session, they pulled 697 horsepower and 576 torque. In 2017 using three Holley four barrel carbs and a different cam profile they pulled 872 hp @ 7200 rpm’s and 669 lb / ft of torque @ 6000 rpm’s. They ran it on up to 8000 rpm’s and it was still making 811 horsepower 😱. In later dyno testing the little V-12 was making over 1000 horsepower !!! Not too shabby for a home made engine. Mr. Baker plans to install it in his GT-40 Mark 1. That’s about all I can remember. For the full story, just check it out online. I would love to own one of these Ford V-12’s and I think the demand for more would be huge. Smart investors should get behind the man and make a shit load more. Clevelands with eight cylinders RULE. A 12 cylinder Cleveland would dominate world wide. KICKING ASS ON A GLOBAL SCALE 🏁🇺🇸👌 in a unique FORD 🏆
The worst heads actually by far are the m heads. The exhaust port is severely restricted and cannot be ported efficiently due to the water jacket surrounding the exhaust valve guide. You’d be better off with 2v heads than m heads. Also note worthy is the boss 4v heads came with 2.25 intake valves not 2.19.
For those really low buck clevors, I think the 351/400M heads are nearly identical to 351C 2bbl heads. I used 5.0L Ford short blocks from 1986 HO motors. They usually re-ri ged very well. The factory 1986 forged pistons had no valve notches or dish, pure plain flat-tops. Flycut a little for big cam lift, re ring, ready to go!
I have a 71 351C 4v with 4v closed chamber heads with number 4 and raised dot to the right of the number 4 on the top corner of the head. D1AE casting. Apparently Ford had a few ways of designating 4V closed chamber heads.
Those heads were used in 73 as well. I had 2 sets over the years. I could have sold many sets of them if I had them to some late model stock car racres. They had a valve size rule that made that head good for them.
Hi i just watched your video about clevo heads now here is a head scratcher 4 you i have 1969 d block with 302 crank and rods with a 3v close chambered heads all matching numbers to the block but here in Australia all ford heads say this combination never existed typical ford down under cheers
Jeff I'm trying to figure out were you keep all that Ford knowledge in your brain .I have been a Ford guy my hole life.I would love to have a least 1/4 of you Ford smarts .Thanks for all your great info.
Wow, thanks my wife said much the same think a few months ago. I was helping her with RRS-USA tech questions and just stood there answering. She stopped and looked at me and asked "don't you need to look that up?" I said "I can, but I know I'm right." SHE looked it up and I was right LOL.
Somewhere on RUclips they did a bench flow head shootout on these Cleveland heads and the 2V heads with a 1970 castings on them are better than 4V open chambered they flow more and on the dino they made more horsepower up to 5000 RPM more than any other head look it up.. I took the set that I have and had the heads shaved 10,000 at a machine shop to raise the compression and OMG hold on tight. I'm afraid to race a 351 boss cuz I'm worried I'll beat him and I don't want to insult those heads that he's running but I think these 2v will out run it in a quarter mile
The Aussie 2V closed chamber came about because we made 302 Clevelands here as well, as a smaller displacement V8 option that could use a 6-cylinder drivetrain. The heads, rods and crank were cast here exclusively. The rods are longer at 6.030" and when used with a special piston, you can make a long-rod 351. The Aussie 2V heads aren't anything special flow-wise, being pretty poorly machined and cast in the ports. A light cleanup and rounding in the bowls will give around 200cfm, good for 400hp. There are some really nice CNC-ported ones done by Pavtek that are up around 270, with unshrouded chambers and a nice finish. They claim 505 hp with a set of these, not bad at all.
Paw performance Auto Warehousel used to sell a kit in the 80s for a 302 to put Cleveland heads on a 302 Windsor block I bet they were just buying them in Australia and resell them here in the states
Totally wrong. You don`t make a V8 to run a 6cyl. The 302 was for ppl who wanted a V8 but not a high-performance race car V8 like a 351 GT-HO Falcon. Now, flow-wise you don`t need to run a 4V to race & 2V set up properly is better than 4V on Aussie racetracks & street/1/4 mile. The Bathurst race teams went from 4V to 2V. Brock got caught using 4V valves when 2V was the rules. I already put up with clowns saying 2V = 2bbl carby only & there are no 2V valves - 4V valves or 2V heads & 4V heads.
@@rodneyjones4890 ok what drivetrain do the early 351 cars have vs the 302? An imported Toploader and 9" is much more expensive than a locally made single rail and BW 75/78. Therefore, the early 302s used the same drivetrain as the 250 6-cylinder, eliminating the need for specially imported parts. Later 302/351s did use the single rail/BW drivetrain but the 351s still got their own special ratios. So how am I "totally wrong"? I think your comprehension of my statement is what is wrong.
My understanding is that 4 dot heads were a revision of the water passages for the 1970 1/2 model year to make the engine less likely to ping. The revision also lowered compression slightly from 11:1 (4) for 1969 1/2 to 10.7:1 (4 dot) for 1970 1/2. I think the confusion comes from the fact that by 1972 the large port 4 dot heads were made with open chambers to handle the lower octane fuel that was mandated. Here in Oz, we had the 10.7:1 4 dot heads through to 1973, but after that we had the 2 open chamber heads for the 351 and closed chamber small port heads for the 302.
You are wrong, actually the smaller Cleveland 2.75" main journal wears bearings less than the bigger 3.00" main bearing size. Same goes for the Chevy 2.1" rod bearing size wears less than a Cleveland 2.311 rod bearing size. There is a reason the aftermarket blocks have mostly run the Cleveland 2.75" main bearing and not the 3" bearing and typically aftermarket strokers have Chevy 2.1 bearings and not Cleveland/Windsor rod sizes. Its due to bearing speed and less weight too.
@@AutoRestoMod well sir, I would go with what the aftermarket manufactures like DART, World Products and the FMS BOSS block say and do. Also just to point out, a chevy rod does not have the correct rod offset for a Cleveland or Windsor so the rod angle is not optimum even though it benefits from the 2.10 rod bearing size.
The 1970 M code engine had 300 hp with 11-1 compression and 64 cc chambers , the 1971 M code rated 285 hp 10.5 Compression and 66 cc Chambers. These heads are the ones that have closed chamber and a Dot.
@@AutoRestoMod The head with 4 and Dot and 66 cc Chamber are the ones that Ford milled down and installed guide plates and screw in studs! Used on Boss 351!
Boss 302 heads watered through the manifold Cleveland watered through the block but can be easily modified to work on Windsor blocks. Edelbrock makes a manifold to work called E Boss for both 302 and 351 W
4300 carbs scare the hell out of me. Had one that always stuck at WOT. A friend borrowed another buddy's truck, turned a corner foot to the mat....wound up creating a new entranceway of a house. Police didn't believe that the throttle stuck.
@@paulkeogh1191 They will physically fit yes, except as you say in the ports which completely negates the ability to use 2v manifolds with 4v heads and vice versa. They can't work with leaky ports on the intake side and the exhaust side would leak like a sieve. That's why the aftermarket manifolds and even headers are specific to either 2v or 4v. Which was my initial point; you must use 2v manifolds with 2v heads and 4v manifolds with 4v heads.
It does work.4v manifold on 2v heads was reported to give 10hp even with the mismatch a little blend8 g of head port would help..Going the other way doesn't
@@paulkeogh1191 I could see that. It would be kind of like putting a 4bbl carb on your 2v manifold with an adapter plate and I suppose the bigger runners would get you something but the head ports are still the same size and the potential vacuum leaks would make it a PITA. It would be easier and probably more efficient to just add an aftermarket manifold sized for the 2v heads.
Those closed chamber 2V Australian heads are off the 302 Cleveland. Yes that's right 302 Cleveland, a Australia only engine. They have 54cc chambers. I have them on a 351C with flat top pistons and they are very sharp off the mark but you need to get your distributor advance set up right or you can get detonation.
Good info, thank you. We heard that the closed-chamber Boss 351 heads had overheating issues, possibly leading to warping and/or cracking. This was due to uneven heating of the combustion chambers, because of the cooler quench area... if memory serves us.
@@AutoRestoMod Perhaps, you'd think detonation would kill it before anything else. The compression ratio on these was insanely high, especially for the first year of no-lead gas.
I purchased many years back a pair of 2v closed chamber heads from a machine shop that were reworked for a fella that never returned to get them. The machine shop had them for over 10 years. I used the machine shop for many years because they were the best in the area till the man died and left it to his sons then screw up city after. The day i got those 2v cleveland heads i had took in a set of 351 m truck heads and block for machining boring etc. That i was building for a 79 bronco that had been in my family since new. He found one of my m heads was cracked and then that's when he told me that he had the cleveland heads that he had for years and i said how much and he said get them outta my way then i ask if he had a 4bbl cleveland intake and he said i have tons of cleveland and m stuff just and took me out to a semi trailer out back and unlocked it and it was slap full of ford stuff even several mel engines 462 lincoln and smaller 429 stuff anything just a ford lovers dream. Got my engine built with flat tops and a what was called rv cam for better torque, hedman hedders and back in the bronco with a new holley 4bbl basically stock. Taking that m block smogger 2bbl open chamber slouch to a tire roasting sob and i drove it another 20 years. Believe it or not the bronco maybe got 8 mpg well after it got 12 to 15 with it's c6 limited slip stock 350 gears. I bought the 462"s with their transmissions after he died and wished i could have bought the whole damn trailer. I freshened up one of the 462's and put it in a 66 short bed f-100 it was a screamer.. Parts for mel's are now very expensive 350 to 400 bucks for a water pump for say.
Love your work but the DOT doesn't mean open or closed. I'm in Oz and have 2v closed chamber with 4 V valves and we call them 3Vs they work really well love the 351 c
@@S_C_A_R_F_A_C_E the combustion chamber is not circular. Kinda diamond shaped. (Known as a "poly angle"). the 4V intake ports can swallow a golf ball, but the 2v's are the same size as the open chamber heads, Which are better for street racing. All the American production 2Barrel Cleveland/400 heads were low compression. but the Aussie's were closed and that is the important part.
Great info! Doing research on 351C. Have a 95 Cobra that I do DE's Open track events. Think a 351c in it would be awesome. Had 2 top loaders that I sold and now I'm mad I did. The car is in peace's and I want to do a old school build. My father had a 66 stang with top loader when I was growing up. My first car was a 66 also. He had the old school hurst shifter and "T" handle. Want to use those cars for inspiration. Anyways, any short comings for one of these motors on a road course. Not looking for big power. My current engine is maybe 250hp to the wheels. The thing I like about it is that motor will grow with me as I want more power. A 351c can make all the power I could ever possibly want.
Johnny d from Australia, I own a rare xa gt falcon , all matching numbers, it has 4v with a dot heads on it and they are closed chambers, I know this because I rebuilt the engine myself as I am a mechanic these heads are very commen here in au they sell for about a thousand dollars au
Great vid, thanks. I have the Aussie 302 closed chamber heads on a 351 C and having a few issues. Running a Comp cam 218/224@050 and im getting 195 psi across the left bank and 210 psi across the right bank. Any clues whats going on? I didnt build it. Is the way I bought it. Cheers and love your work 🙂
I had heard about the dot next to the "4" meaning an open chamber head. Curiously, I have a set of 4V heads from a '71 Mach 1 that I used to own. One head has the dot, one doesn't. Both heads are closed chamber. Any ideas?
Beats me. I'd look at the casting numbers on the heads as well as the date stamps the lifter valley. Since the chamber is not milled but cast, it can't be a casting mistake. email me some photos of the part number on the underside of the intake runner on both heads and the date codes from both. as well as a picture of the chambers, I am VERY curious. jford@autorestomod.com
The D3Ze heads were very misunderstood. The smaller valves actually worked quite well. It's also very easy to know if you have a boss 302 head.... water jackets on the intake face of the head... its a can't miss. I don't know... a lot of things he said I disagree with. Ive owned a lot of cleveland motors. The hardest running, highest revving heads were open chamber heads. They unshroud the valves and increase headflow by 20 to 30 cfm. Also, quench extinguushes the flame front so you have a quicker burn but it's incomplete and inefficient. An open chamber is a cleaner and more efficient design... anyways....
@@dennisrobinson8008 yes especially on exhaust.. I never benched my heads but lots of cleveland racers I know say the trade off of quench for flow is better than even. Ford had emissions in mind when they designed the open chamber heads. It's a much cleaner, complete burn without the quench... thus more power. Key to running open heads is zero or if your daring positive deck. I mill my heads .030 and get them down to about 66 to 67cc, zero deck, flat top with a single relief and you're in the mid to high 9's in compression. That's why the iron 2v head is so competitive with that eddy head. That's a good chamber... with a lot of fake news...lol.
Thanks mate we're beginning to wonder what the dots were for lol. It doesn't seem like there was much reasoning to it. Or at least reasoning that we can see.
So, I have a '73 Mach 1 with the 351C 2V engine, and I assume it has dished pistons. I was told when I bought the car the engine had been rebuilt and updated with hardened valve seats. The engine runs good, although it does have a mild, what seems like harmonic vibration up around 2600-2800 RPM. Replacing the harmonic balancer didn't cure it. Anyway it runs good other than that, and I just go to cruise in's with it. However, visions of mods tend to dance in my head. I used to have a '73 Gran Torino with the four bolt main block, and the early close chamber 4V heads. It ran great, had lots of top end power. But these days I'm reading that the smaller 2V heads are better for the street, and a couple of manufacturers offer 4V intakes that will fit the 2V heads. So I'm trying to decide my next step... I suppose my wallet will determine how far I go lol. But my son's '92 LX 5.0 is wearing me out! .
Hot tip. If you order forged pistons for a thirty-thousanth over-bore on a 351 Cleveland, you'll get dished pistons, so as to keep the same compression ratio. Flat-tops will bump it up, which is what you want.
Its the other way around here in Australia. 4V CC heads here are very hard to come by and expensive if you can find them. Our specific 2V CC heads are easy and reasonably cheap to find as they were original made for the Australian 302C. They needed small chambers to raise the compression with the smaller stroke. Aussie made 351 2V engines had normal open chambers.
@@AutoRestoMod We also had the worlds fastest four door car in the world, the mighty 1970 GT HO phase 3 ford Falcon. 145mph top speed . you now need a million if you want to buy a good one, if you can find one!
@@AutoRestoMod Yes because so many were thrown aways in the 70-80's nobody wanted them unless they kept their engines stock, anybody building performance street engines used the modified 2V aussie heads, many 4V are buried in tips or peoples back yards
Enjoyed the Enthusiasm but I didn’t enjoy the miss information might want to rehash this video….. The 74 4v big port heads with the open chambers and 2v small valves are very much not junk!! they actually flow the most air of all the Cleveland iron heads on a 4” bore you can and will make good power with those just get the comp up with some better pistons and some milling etc etc. (True they are harder to get really high compression with, but they are still a good and capable head not POS you Portray in this video) Actually the worst thing you can do is put 4v 2.19/2.23 in the 2v small port head it ruins the short turn and you go backwards. The 3” mains is not a desirable size in racing at higher rpm it’s known to trap the oil between the bearings and crank for to long heating the oil up hence why the 9.2” deck 351c used 2.75” and nascar ended up going even smaller if I’m not mistaken.
Yep, back in the 80s I have a C power 71 pinto drag car. I called the company that made them and let them know if they supplied a set of those "tongue" plates for me to test and they worked, I would pay for them and be let everybody know... They said they couldn't do that so that was the end of discussion... I believe the company was MPG.
@@claytonsherman2094 As I recall MPG was the manufacturer. They advertised in all the car magazines. Why they Could'nt supply you with the restrictor plates(assuming you were to pay for them), does'nt make sense If one is handy with a torch, they could easily be replicated in light sheet medal.
@@jeromebreeding3302 Yep, that was when they first came out (first time I heard about them). Gave them a call and asked it they would consider sending a set for me to try. Told them if they worked I would gladly pay for them and let all my C motored racers about them. They wouldn't do it. O well, never did try them...
The Ford 302 351C Cleveland 220cc 64cc Hydraulic Roller. Assembled Cylinder Heads. Could you inject explanation of these heads and expectations using these heads? Thanks
All 2V heads are essentially the same with chambers within 1 cc and the 351M has a water port on the intake face. The 2V's will easily flow 250+ CFM on the intake and 220 on the exhaust.
I have a 72 gran torino sport with the 351cj eng. I have 251,000+ miles on the original engine and am thinking of rebuilding it. I have been told with the stock heads I can't get the power I want, 400'450 hp. Which heads would you recommend as it will be a street car not a racer.
I would lean toward the 1970 4V head, but know that you will need to muck with cam timing to run today's fuels. More to the point I'd poke it out to a 383 to really take advantage of the heds.
I have a 351c in my Mach 1 with no stamping on neither corners of the heads however the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner but now it has me thinking what heads they really are off of. 🤷🏻♂️
He didn't talk about the 351m 400cid heads , like what you would find on a 77 f150 4×4 short box ...are thay junk?...my engine has a 2bbl ....us it worth rebuilding....right now the engine runs good but it's old and iam thinking about rebuilding it ..but if it's a junk engine then I doant know
Again the dot was to the right of the number 4 on my closed chamber 3514V heads. I have photos of the heads because I rebuilt the engine and verified they are closed chamber Your video of 4v open chamber heads has the dot to the left of the number 4. Maybe that's the difference?
Your nuts. The small valve 4v d3ve AA head is the best flowing Cleveland head period. I’ve built numerous engines with these heads. The last one made 511 hp at 6700. With 9.5 compression.
Lol maybe i was a bit harsh. The d3 head is nothing to sneeze at. I’m hoping to do a all out street engine with these heads see what i can get. The last street motor surprised me.
@@jesse75 Im helping a Friend right now with stock eliminator car. He’s using these heads and 550+ hp now. We hope to gain another 25hp but under the rules.
I have never heard of the bigger journal crankshaft as a advantage? They have more surface area & it creates greater bearing speed witch is more friction & more heat?
Actually Jesse is correct. The outside of a larger circle (bike wheel) will travel faster at the same RPM than the smaller circle does (bike hub). i.e. it'll travel farther in the same amount of time. For instance bigger tires will make your speedometer register slow. That was one of the issues with the 351W because it had such a huge main bearing whereas the Cleveland had a much smaller main bearing and was less likely to spin the bearing. My two cents. Either way clean oil should make it live for whatever you're doing.
That is what you read but have no hands on experience with. It is known when Ford motorsport came out with the Nascar block, Windsor deck height but with Cleveland main bearing size. The Cleveland gets its main bearing size from the FE. A fully groved bearing works good in a Cleveland block. I have built super stock racing engines both Cleveland blocks and Windsor and motorsport blocks. Comparable track rules, engines all ran nearly same times in the same car. This was done at the short track at Monroe Washington. At a long track maybe there would be an advantage. But having bigger mains never that fact showing a difference. One thing I did find changing from a Cleveland rod to a Windsor rod length picked up some torque and speed when coming out of a corner.
If you are putting together a strong street motor 4-500hp, it is best to stick with your 2V heads. Look at your valve sizes, back in the day the Chevy boys were putting the same size to make their double hump heads hotter. Do a little porting to match your intake runners. Also, you will want to do some machine work to the block to help oiling. I bought a Ford Engines book that had specifics about the builds for CanAm & Pantera engines and followed when I built mine. I could save you a lot of time and just sell you mine. 🤑 Too many projects, not enuff time.
Has anyone ever investigated hogging out a 4V Cleveland head to 1969 Boss 302 valve sizes (2.23/1.73)? It seems like that would be a killer combo, kinda "secret weapon" style, on a 351 block with a 383 stroker kit installed!
Not in my experience; the head I had in my lap was a DOAE head and it doesn't have the dot. I am almost positive that Ford did that starting in 1971 as the closed chamber head was still in use on the "M" VIN code engines. After 1971 all heads were open chamber, but Ford didn't remove the dot, I'd like to see a picture of the head you are talking about.
I heard the "dot" = "open chamber" thing a few years ago. What I've found from looking at numerous 4V heads in the meantime is that it's more a rule of thumb than a guarantee. It seems to be accurate in the majority of cases, but for some reason Ford wasn't 100% consistent with it.
@@AutoRestoMod you are mistaken on the "dot". It has no significance in determining open or closed chamber. Sorry, but you are propagating misinformation.
Aussie here, have had cars with both our locally made (Geelong engine plant, Victoria) 351C and the unique to Australia 302C. Ford Australia took a good design and made it a little better. Sadly, we don't make cars of any make anymore due to crummy cheap imports.
Hi man , me Fred from the Netherlands , can you tell me what pistons , aftermarket cylinderheads, cam , intake and carb. I need to make my 1979 Lincoln Mark V grow some balls ? I need power !! hope to hear from ya
If it's a big block engine like a 460 , you'll want to get a set of after-market four sixty heads for it. Update the cam to a roller High performance grind. I set of hyperutectic pistons in a flat top configuration should do the trick.
So what kind of Information you got on the 260?? If I can make 250hp with mine I’ll cut a back flip!! I have a Holley 4bbl vac secondary, 600, an old school Weiand intake and a Comp cam. ( I don’t have the cam card in front of me I’m at work on lunch break 🤷♂️). I’m installing a 3:55 ring gear in the ole 8in and fixing the peg leg with a mini spool. Will it explode violently?? Probably. But I have another chunk so, I’ll have another one to explode.
@@AutoRestoMod running well and strong ISH’ is all I’m going for on this build at this point. I’ll be on the look out for a 302 to make it a little more stout down the road. It’s in a 2dr comet, so it’s fairly light.
Last time I checked I still have a set of Cleveland cylinder heads on my engine in the shop. And a pair on a shelf. And a pair on another Cleveland in Texas that I own. There's still a pretty big following for these out there.
I have tried but there is no consensus.. And I can't find any original engineering information to know how and why they did the dot and when they did it
The Dot on 4v identification for 4v open chamber is not a good rule to go by. There are lots of quench chamber heads with dots, it just means a casting revision for 1971. The 4v closed chambers that have dots next to the 4 they have engineering part # D1AE-GA . The 1970 4v heads have no dots so are easy to identify .
I agree and own a pair of quench chamber with a 4 dot.
I just picked up a '71 F100 Ranger with a 302 Vin for $1000 from some distant family.
Popped the hood to find a 351C with the 4● heads.
This gives me hope that I might get a lil more lucky and it be a closed chamber.
@@austinlane5533
Most people wanting to use the Cleavland head is better off with the 2V heads cause they are easier to work with and the 4V heads has to have a lot more carb used and more compression and a monster cam used in it before you can get the power out of them that they are capable of.
Any motor that a golf ball can roll through the intake runners is going to need a lot of fuel to get the power out off it
Ditto to this.
I'm an Australian living in Sydney and I've got a minty pair of those closed chamber 2V quench heads. They are destined for my future 351C build.
Thanks for mentioning us.
Cheers mate
The 1971 Boss 351 had an 11.7:1 compression from the factory. I bought one back in 1983
My dad sold me his 1970 Mercury Cougar with a Cleveland 2V in 1990. That engine configuration was an excellent daily driver for both city and highway. Thanks for your video.
The 2V Cleveland probably should have been closed chambered heads and a 4V intake, then the 4V a 393 or some such. The ports are honestly too big for the smaller 351 displacement.
I used to own a very rare 71' Cyclone Spoiler with the M code. The heads had the "Dot" next to the 4 on the corner of the head despite being closed chamber heads. It was an all matching numbers drivetrain with 83k original miles. And I know they were closed chamber because I had to replace the heads gaskets.
This is interesting. I wonder if there was a foundry issue in casting heads.
@@AutoRestoMod I saw a youtube clip a guy explained that big dot is open chamber and small dot is closed chamber. I have a 1971 M-code mach1 with closed chamber and small dot.
That information may be specific to Australia. So much Cleveland information is wrong because people take Aussie data and mix it up with North American data. The dot might not mean anything. I have had open and closed chamber 4V heads with no dot. It simply isn't a reliable sign. Get a cheap optical camera from Amazon or eBay and know for sure.
@@mcyclonegt The heads for 1970 are 4 no dot 64cc PN>DOAE. the difference in it and the 1971 head is 4 with dote and 66 cc PN: D1AZ. the M code engine was the same for 1970 and 1971 but the Chamber volume changed the compression from 11 to 1 for 1970 and 300 HP, to 10.5 for 1971 and 285 hp.
I got 302 and i there Is 4 cylinder head but no dot what does this mean. is 351
I completely lucked out on Craigslist buying a M400/C6 for $600. somebody put the Aussie 2V's and Eddlebrock performer400. (But used UMBRELLA SEALS😂) Causing that terrible misfire and sold it all to me... So I threaded and 1/2 studded/roller rocker and ported/matched them. .581 lift lunati cam. HOLY SHIIIIT!
Nice!
The reason about so many heads would’ve be the the Ford engineer’s experimenting with different types of head to achieve perfection and evolve , the reason they offered so many could be so many different ways they tried so they released them to see they performed so they could keep improving, probably Ford had a vast numbers of bright engineers that were experimenting in different levels , 60’s and 70’s were a great era where people had unlimited amount of creativity could be just huge amounts of ideas to channel into a few ! All the best from Adelaide South Australia 🇦🇺
Hey mate Tim from Australia here. The Aussie closed chamber heads came off the 302 Cleveland, they are small port, 2v valves and have a 57cc chamber. They will yield around 10.7 to 1 comp depending on deck hieght. Most Aussie 2v heads have no marking in the corner.
I have a set of those heads on my 351 Cleveland in my 69 Wagon. Really love the way they run.
Thank you very much for mentioning the Australian Cleveland 2V closed chamber heads. I remember hearing a little bit about them many years ago when they were first brought to the attention of American Ford lovers. To me it would seem the way to go for street Cleveland engines, if only there was a way to get them to the U.S. at a reasonable shipping rate.
Shipping is the big issue, thst and good cores. The newest of those heads is 30 plus years old.
@@AutoRestoMod How can we identify a set of Auzzie 2V closed chamber heads?
The Aussie 2V head came on the 1975 to 1984/5 Clevelands , the four barrel 351 Cleveland had 2V heads but these are NOT the ones you want in the US , you want the 302 Cleveland four barrel 2V Closed Chamber heads , use US 4V valves in them on a standard US Cleveland and you get 10.5 to 11 to 1 compression as the Aussie 302 Cleveland has small chambers ! And they are worth about $100 a pair in 2023 Australia as the 302 Clevelands were seen as junk throw away motors ! And freight please about $150 us to west coast !
@@AutoRestoMod yeah, but 98% of them would be still be good cores, if a major engine reconditioner has been at them,they may need new guides installed.
To make u even crazier, Ford made some experimental 400 blocks that may have both 335 and 385 series transmission bolt patterns which may or may not be drilled and tapped.
To avoid detenation on open chamber heads, use a 1975 Ford Elite Duraspark distributor. It has the high compression advance curve and electronic top with small cap.
To use a 2V 400 intake on 4V heads a 1/2" aluminum spacer will raise it to the top of the head port. Also works on 3V CHI heads. You will have to cut the manifold to clear the distributor.
Ain't Clevelands fun.
Thanks to my dad, I happily know nothing about them. He was a mechanic & wouldn't let anyone in our family buy "anything Cleveland". He absolutely loathed them, lol.
Nice info!
The 400 with the dual bolt patterns were from 1964. Look for an engine block casting starting with "D4." It was a one-year only product. Due to the fact Ford was having problems producing enough auto transmissions with the big 460 bolt patterns. I forget the name of the trannys, but they were cast iron rather than aluminum castings. In my whole life I only saw one of the D4 blocks, it was at a Ford parts show in Indianapolis right around Thanksgiving many, many years ago.
@@bobkonradi1027 The cast iron trans is the FMX and is the forerunner of the AOD. Thanks for the info on the block. The one I had was in a 1972 Mach 1 CJ with the C6 smallblock bolt pattern and that's the only one I've ever seen. Didn't think anything of it and sold it but kept the Holley Street Dominator manifold only to find out it didn't fit the rebuilt 351C. By then the block was gone. Oops.
@@psychoholicslag4801 I came up with some part #s and casting #s for our mystery dual-pattern 400 block. The part # is D3AE-6010-B. The casting #s are: D1AE-A2c or D3AE-b. The source I found said all the blocks were cast at the Michigan Casting Center. Some blocks from this source had casting flaws in the lifter gallery for blocks cast before March 2, 1977 (cast date 7c02)_ So beware if you're looking for one of them.
Thanks so much for posting this video. I really enjoyed seeing the 351c content and learning more about my 72 mustangs engine.
You are welcome
I just refreshed a 351 Cleveland that I raced about 20 years ago. I went a best of 8.90 1/4 mile on a 175 shot with factory iron closed chamber heads and factory crankshaft and the Chris Parker funnel web intake in a very light 81 Capri. I’ve gotten very lucky and collected bunch of Cleveland parts over the years. I’ve got two sets of 1970 Boss 302 heads in mint condition and two sets of 1971 4-V closed chamber heads in mint condition. I’ve gotten into the aftermarket Cleveland block (Clevor)and aluminum 3V CHI cylinder heads. I never would’ve thought Cleveland factory parts would become so valuable. The Cleveland platform is the baddest small block out of all the manufacturers.
My experience with the Cleveland’s comes from a 351M in a Montego wagon and a 351C 2V in a 71 Cougar. The 351M in the wagon was what it was and the car would have benefited from at least a 400 as it would have moved that big gal around a little more efficiently. The Cougar, despite being a high mileage rust bucket when it bought it, benefited from some low buck tweaks such as dual exhaust and an open element air cleaner using taller filters for the likes of a Chevy 454 truck motor. The prevalent attitude toward 2V and 4V Cleveland’s in the 80s was that the 4V heads were great for racing/high rpm applications, but the 2Vs were better for all around street/daily driving. That’s about where it stopped as Ford had brought back a HO 302 and that seemed to get all the Ford attention in the enthusiast magazines. Of course there was the FE and some 385 coverage, but the 302 was getting all the attention if you weren’t running a Chevy 350. I’d say for a Cleveland performance application now days, the aluminum heads are the best route to go if you have the money. I think there’s more potential in the American 351 2V than anyone cares to admit. While I don’t have any good street racing stories with the ole Cougar, it did impress passengers when I put the gas pedal all the way to the floor, at least when it scratched 2nd with 14 inch 245 width rear tires. And when it accidents revved past 6k, it was still pulling when the stock 2V carb had less air flow restriction from air cleaner.
I tool a 1970 351 Cleveland 2V . Just some mild updates. Aluminum intake and a Holley 600. Couldn’t believe how much power this engine made for my 17 year old mind. Put this engine in my 56 Victoria.
The braille mark is golden, thanks, also the 302 Australian Cleveland.
Love my Aussie heads. Wish I had more!
the Aussie 2V close chamber heads are getting hard to find now here in Australia, most of us have snapped them up years ago,( plenty of 2V open chambers though) the new trend now in the aluminum 3V heads even better again.
love this segment thanks
The 3V is the way to go now for sure.
Crap every wrecker has an old 302 Cleveland hanging around , sure 351c may be hard but not as good as 302 C small chamber 2v heads
@@JosephCowen-ru7up if you can still find cleveland 302 2v close chamber heads at the wreckers your doing well
@@fknows1 yep , just go out of city's , many country wreckers have a couple of 302 Clevelands rusting away out the back , I worked for South Sydney council back in 2005 , my job was to smash the windows on abandoned cars so we could put the sling through and put them on the flat bed off to Sims metal at mascot, I ended up grabbing every ford, Holden , Chrysler V8 before the crusher , I had 12 massive pantecs full of motors , wheelie bins of four barrel Carbies and turbos , but I remember taking 22 sets of 302 Cleveland heads into Super flow heads at Liverpool in exchange for a set of ported Big Block Oldsmobile heads I ended up bolting on my small block 403 ci Oldsmobile V8. I thought it was a good deal at the time , as they were worth about $50 a set at the time . Wish I kept them !
@@JosephCowen-ru7upcool! I"ll ask Benny what he did with the heads, and if he remembers you, I'm sure he will still remember that many heads from 18 yrs ago, and yes
clevelands were still fairly plentiful 18 yrs ago
I modified my 1978 351m heads to accept 7/16 stud mount rockers, 1.7 ratio Boss steel rockers from Comp. Ported them and had them milled. Also put forged flat top zero deck pistons and FULL ROLLER valvetrain with a Howards Rattler cam. Block was milled as well. Its not in the truck yet(4x2 F250) I think it will be a contender.
Isky made a very good bolt on kit to convert to adjustable drive-train. Three eighths into the head, seven sixteenth on the business end. Teflon pyshrod guide plates were provided also.
I bought a set of 302 Aussie Cleveland Heads. They heads were cheap, shipping was not. They were still a lot cheaper than a set of aluminum heads. Planning to send them in for machine work (machine down the pedestals and add screw in studs and guide plates). My understanding is that the only reason the 2V closed chamber heads exist is because they de stroked the 351 to make a 302 cleveland which in turn drastically lowered the compression ratio. To help mitigate this, they created the 2V closed chamber heads for their 302 Cleveland. Thus, my understanding is that the 2V closed chamber heads ONLY came on the 302 clevelands. But the Aussies were quick to swap out their 351 open chamber heads for the 302 closed chamber heads for a bump in compression.
That is spot on.
You got it mate, only our 302 Cleveland and
although the 302 was made here until about 1982
I'm not sure the 302's built after 1976 ish didn't
go to the open chamber design.
So all Aussie 302 heads may not be equal.
Any Aussies got more info on this?
Then came the M400 Block😉 the Aussie 2v's are the answer to this smogged motor! The Mechanically Efficient Tall Deck Stroker Cleveland. By Ford🇺🇸
@@imanenigma3348 They still used the closed chamber on the 302 until the end.
One thing I always found interesting, the Ford Cleveland heads actually came out before the Cleveland engine. The Boss 302 engine had Cleveland 4V heads and was available for the 1969 model year, The cleveland engine wasn't available until the 1970 model year.
Very true. The Boss 302 head as a better response to the poorly performing 302 tunnel port heads.
The Boss 302 was too much of a good thing. The head's flowed more than the displacement could handle.
I believe the 1969 boss 302 heads had 2.23 intake and 1.71 exhaust valves. In 1970 there were 2.19 intake 1.71 exhaust.
@@snugj5957you are nuts if you think a 302 “Hipo” is going to run with a boss 302
I really enjoy these technical/historical lectures! Mahalo, man.
Malaho bradda!
just the mention of "Cleveland" makes my heart skip a few. I have a 3 speed '68 F100 that had a '70 2v, holley street dominator intake and a Q-jet. It was that way when I bought it. I can tell you some stories that you wouldn't believe. Will say that they don't make drum brakes that could stop it very quick. finally retired it back in 97 after it had sat until the valve started sticking. The 302 HO out of my 84 GT became my test mule. Wanted a real sleeper and created a Clevor with those magic Aussie heads. Never forget the machinist calling to question what the heck it was as none of the numbers matched his book. In process of installing disc brakes in between raising a family and working myself to a grave. That engine taught me to respect a dual point distributor. Pull on a plug wire that has a break at idle and see how long you laugh. Love the older Ford Stuff!!!!
Great stuff Lee!
Thank you for mentioning the Aussie 351 Clev’O , I’ve an Aussie delivered 1979 F100 with the Aussie made 351 Clev’O and yes in Australia they are holy ! I tried to buy parts from Auto Krafters for my made in Brazil 67-72 Bumpside Bronco and 79 F100 but you guys don’t ship internationally I was pretty disappointed so I am buying from CJ’s and LMC Truck !
Cheers
as a ford guy if i was going to build a 351 i would look at after marked heads because from what i have seen in vids, there are lots of goodies if you look for them
FYI the dot doesn’t mean open chamber. I have just had my 71 351c rebuild it has 4v closed chamber heads1 has a 4 with a dot the other has a 4 only both are closed chamber heads. Don’t know why or what the dot is for but with or without it will go fast Ricky Bobby!!! 😎
Happy to own both the 4V Quench heads from 1970 and the Big open chamber heads. Paid $50 bucks for them back in 1979.
Have you heard about the racers that use to cut up cleveland heads and weld them back together to make a high flowing head for the inline 300 and supposedly make 625 hp?
Yes. I know that has been a thing. ruclips.net/video/RUfw5FBGlAk/видео.html Starting at 9:20ish the video shows the head (s?) and custom intake. Lee Shepard is the racer that did at least one of them and ran it in a Pinto drag car.
@@AutoRestoMod im thinking of paying homage to those racers and getting a set of aluminum Cleveland heads from promaxx and building it for one of my 300s and maybe find a torino to put it in… cause i like torinos and they may have more engine bay for it… ill find out for sure soon
There were actually quite a few successful drag racers over the years that used the Cleveland heads to make the inline 6 cylinder FORD engines. They typically ran in modified production classes.
However, has anyone here seen the Ford V-12 engine that uses Cleveland heads ? It’s right here on RUclips. I think The Horsepower Monster and Fuel Junkie Racing have also posted videos on it.
It’s a creation done by Jan Baker just up the road from me here in Georgia. It’s a 552 cubic inch V-12 all hand fabricated by Jan. He used two Windsor blocks with the front two cylinders cut off of block number 1 and the rear two cylinders cut off of block number 2. He aligned both blocks and welded them together. It’s a odd fire engine with two distributors operating independently, one for each cylinder bank.
Three Cleveland 4- V closed chamber heads were cut into sections and welded together as needed. A billet 120 degree crank with a three and a half inch stroke was custom made by Henry Velasco.
Other components include a set of 5.565” long Howards connecting rods, 12 custom 4.090” bore Arias pistons and more. The heads got a mild porting job and use 2.19” intake and 1.76” exhaust valves.
Three different steel intake manifolds were fabricated. The first shakedown dyno runs were done in 2015 using TWO RARE FORD- AUTOLITE INLINE FOUR BARREL CARBS. They ran way too rich on 93 octane pump fuel for the 10.5 compression ratio. It made only 604 horsepower and 491 torque with many problems. By end of the first dyno session, they pulled 697 horsepower and 576 torque.
In 2017 using three Holley four barrel carbs and a different cam profile they pulled 872 hp @ 7200 rpm’s and 669 lb / ft of torque @ 6000 rpm’s. They ran it on up to 8000 rpm’s and it was still making 811 horsepower 😱. In later dyno testing the little V-12 was making over 1000 horsepower !!!
Not too shabby for a home made engine. Mr. Baker plans to install it in his GT-40 Mark 1.
That’s about all I can remember. For the full story, just check it out online. I would love to own one of these Ford V-12’s and I think the demand for more would be huge. Smart investors should get behind the man and make a shit load more.
Clevelands with eight cylinders RULE. A 12 cylinder Cleveland would dominate world wide. KICKING ASS ON A GLOBAL SCALE 🏁🇺🇸👌 in a unique FORD 🏆
The worst heads actually by far are the m heads. The exhaust port is severely restricted and cannot be ported efficiently due to the water jacket surrounding the exhaust valve guide. You’d be better off with 2v heads than m heads. Also note worthy is the boss 4v heads came with 2.25 intake valves not 2.19.
For those really low buck clevors, I think the 351/400M heads are nearly identical to 351C 2bbl heads. I used 5.0L Ford short blocks from 1986 HO motors. They usually re-ri ged very well. The factory 1986 forged pistons had no valve notches or dish, pure plain flat-tops. Flycut a little for big cam lift, re ring, ready to go!
How did they run?
I have a 71 351C 4v with 4v closed chamber heads with number 4 and raised dot to the right of the number 4 on the top corner of the head. D1AE casting. Apparently Ford had a few ways of designating 4V closed chamber heads.
We're still not completely sure what the. was all about. That seems to be something of a argument in the Cleveland market lol
Those heads were used in 73 as well. I had 2 sets over the years. I could have sold many sets of them if I had them to some late model stock car racres. They had a valve size rule that made that head good for them.
I have been a 302 Windsor guy, from childhood, though when you start talking "Ford", I'm like a fly near a bug zapper, "it's so beautiful 😍" splat !!!
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAaaaaametoo.
Hi i just watched your video about clevo heads now here is a head scratcher 4 you i have 1969 d block with 302 crank and rods with a 3v close chambered heads all matching numbers to the block but here in Australia all ford heads say this combination never existed typical ford down under cheers
Kind of the like the dot no dot thing...
Jeff I'm trying to figure out were you keep all that Ford knowledge in your brain .I have been a Ford guy my hole life.I would love to have a least 1/4 of you Ford smarts .Thanks for all your great info.
Wow, thanks my wife said much the same think a few months ago. I was helping her with RRS-USA tech questions and just stood there answering. She stopped and looked at me and asked "don't you need to look that up?" I said "I can, but I know I'm right." SHE looked it up and I was right LOL.
Somewhere on RUclips they did a bench flow head shootout on these Cleveland heads and the 2V heads with a 1970 castings on them are better than 4V open chambered they flow more and on the dino they made more horsepower up to 5000 RPM more than any other head look it up.. I took the set that I have and had the heads shaved 10,000 at a machine shop to raise the compression and OMG hold on tight. I'm afraid to race a 351 boss cuz I'm worried I'll beat him and I don't want to insult those heads that he's running but I think these 2v will out run it in a quarter mile
The Aussie 2V closed chamber came about because we made 302 Clevelands here as well, as a smaller displacement V8 option that could use a 6-cylinder drivetrain. The heads, rods and crank were cast here exclusively. The rods are longer at 6.030" and when used with a special piston, you can make a long-rod 351.
The Aussie 2V heads aren't anything special flow-wise, being pretty poorly machined and cast in the ports. A light cleanup and rounding in the bowls will give around 200cfm, good for 400hp. There are some really nice CNC-ported ones done by Pavtek that are up around 270, with unshrouded chambers and a nice finish. They claim 505 hp with a set of these, not bad at all.
Paw performance Auto Warehousel used to sell a kit in the 80s for a 302 to put Cleveland heads on a 302 Windsor block I bet they were just buying them in Australia and resell them here in the states
Totally wrong. You don`t make a V8 to run a 6cyl. The 302 was for ppl who wanted a V8 but not a high-performance race car V8 like a 351 GT-HO Falcon. Now, flow-wise you don`t need to run a 4V to race & 2V set up properly is better than 4V on Aussie racetracks & street/1/4 mile. The Bathurst race teams went from 4V to 2V. Brock got caught using 4V valves when 2V was the rules. I already put up with clowns saying 2V = 2bbl carby only & there are no 2V valves - 4V valves or 2V heads & 4V heads.
@@rodneyjones4890 ok what drivetrain do the early 351 cars have vs the 302? An imported Toploader and 9" is much more expensive than a locally made single rail and BW 75/78. Therefore, the early 302s used the same drivetrain as the 250 6-cylinder, eliminating the need for specially imported parts. Later 302/351s did use the single rail/BW drivetrain but the 351s still got their own special ratios. So how am I "totally wrong"? I think your comprehension of my statement is what is wrong.
@@gergatron7000 STOP trying to outsmart me when the engine is part of the drivetrain. They don`t build a V8 to run 6cyl !!
@@rodneyjones4890 ok I'll stop outsmarting you.
My understanding is that 4 dot heads were a revision of the water passages for the 1970 1/2 model year to make the engine less likely to ping. The revision also lowered compression slightly from 11:1 (4) for 1969 1/2 to 10.7:1 (4 dot) for 1970 1/2.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that by 1972 the large port 4 dot heads were made with open chambers to handle the lower octane fuel that was mandated.
Here in Oz, we had the 10.7:1 4 dot heads through to 1973, but after that we had the 2 open chamber heads for the 351 and closed chamber small port heads for the 302.
You are wrong, actually the smaller Cleveland 2.75" main journal wears bearings less than the bigger 3.00" main bearing size. Same goes for the Chevy 2.1" rod bearing size wears less than a Cleveland 2.311 rod bearing size. There is a reason the aftermarket blocks have mostly run the Cleveland 2.75" main bearing and not the 3" bearing and typically aftermarket strokers have Chevy 2.1 bearings and not Cleveland/Windsor rod sizes. Its due to bearing speed and less weight too.
Thanks for the info. I had heard it the other way around from an engine builder YEARS ago.
@@AutoRestoMod well sir, I would go with what the aftermarket manufactures like DART, World Products and the FMS BOSS block say and do. Also just to point out, a chevy rod does not have the correct rod offset for a Cleveland or Windsor so the rod angle is not optimum even though it benefits from the 2.10 rod bearing size.
@@AutoRestoMod Even the aftermarket "POND" 427 FE block uses Cleveland main bearings.
The 1970 M code engine had 300 hp with 11-1 compression and 64 cc chambers , the 1971 M code rated 285 hp 10.5 Compression and 66 cc Chambers. These heads are the ones that have closed chamber and a Dot.
That sounds logical
@@AutoRestoMod The head with 4 and Dot and 66 cc Chamber are the ones that Ford milled down and installed guide plates and screw in studs! Used on Boss 351!
BOSS 351 had 11.7 compression and the 70 M engine had 11.0 , had a Boss 302 , a 70 M 71 4 v fun engines
Nice. Enough compression to make good na horsepower.
Boss 302 heads watered through the manifold Cleveland watered through the block but can be easily modified to work on Windsor blocks. Edelbrock makes a manifold to work called E Boss for both 302 and 351 W
Thanks for the info!
Just bought a 67 custom ford
Surprised to find a 351 Cleveland. Just got it running
4300 carbs scare the hell out of me.
Had one that always stuck at WOT.
A friend borrowed another buddy's truck, turned a corner foot to the mat....wound up creating a new entranceway of a house.
Police didn't believe that the throttle stuck.
A quick mention that 2v and 4v manifolds do NOT interchange. If you have 2v heads you must have 2V manifolds and vice versa. Just FYI
Good point!
They do fit just have a mismatch port area
@@paulkeogh1191 They will physically fit yes, except as you say in the ports which completely negates the ability to use 2v manifolds with 4v heads and vice versa. They can't work with leaky ports on the intake side and the exhaust side would leak like a sieve. That's why the aftermarket manifolds and even headers are specific to either 2v or 4v. Which was my initial point; you must use 2v manifolds with 2v heads and 4v manifolds with 4v heads.
It does work.4v manifold on 2v heads was reported to give 10hp even with the mismatch a little blend8 g of head port would help..Going the other way doesn't
@@paulkeogh1191 I could see that. It would be kind of like putting a 4bbl carb on your 2v manifold with an adapter plate and I suppose the bigger runners would get you something but the head ports are still the same size and the potential vacuum leaks would make it a PITA. It would be easier and probably more efficient to just add an aftermarket manifold sized for the 2v heads.
Those closed chamber 2V Australian heads are off the 302 Cleveland.
Yes that's right 302 Cleveland, a Australia only engine. They have 54cc chambers. I have them on a 351C with flat top pistons and they are very sharp off the mark but you need to get your distributor advance set up right or you can get detonation.
Good info, thank you.
We heard that the closed-chamber Boss 351 heads had overheating issues, possibly leading to warping and/or cracking. This was due to uneven heating of the combustion chambers, because of the cooler quench area... if memory serves us.
That may be true. I think it might have been more to do with the 11:1 pistons and possibly people putting regular in there rather than high test gas.
@@AutoRestoMod Perhaps, you'd think detonation would kill it before anything else. The compression ratio on these was insanely high, especially for the first year of no-lead gas.
You heard?? All of these myths regurgitated by people who NEVER daily drove or raced 4V Cleveland. Smh
I purchased many years back a pair of 2v closed chamber heads from a machine shop that were reworked for a fella that never returned to get them. The machine shop had them for over 10 years. I used the machine shop for many years because they were the best in the area till the man died and left it to his sons then screw up city after. The day i got those 2v cleveland heads i had took in a set of 351 m truck heads and block for machining boring etc. That i was building for a 79 bronco that had been in my family since new. He found one of my m heads was cracked and then that's when he told me that he had the cleveland heads that he had for years and i said how much and he said get them outta my way then i ask if he had a 4bbl cleveland intake and he said i have tons of cleveland and m stuff just and took me out to a semi trailer out back and unlocked it and it was slap full of ford stuff even several mel engines 462 lincoln and smaller 429 stuff anything just a ford lovers dream. Got my engine built with flat tops and a what was called rv cam for better torque, hedman hedders and back in the bronco with a new holley 4bbl basically stock. Taking that m block smogger 2bbl open chamber slouch to a tire roasting sob and i drove it another 20 years. Believe it or not the bronco maybe got 8 mpg well after it got 12 to 15 with it's c6 limited slip stock 350 gears. I bought the 462"s with their transmissions after he died and wished i could have bought the whole damn trailer. I freshened up one of the 462's and put it in a 66 short bed f-100 it was a screamer.. Parts for mel's are now very expensive 350 to 400 bucks for a water pump for say.
Trick question, none of them suck. They don't crack, and the worse ones flow better than the best factory small block Chevy or Ford.
Any more that is true, with the new 3V aluminum heads even a 351M can haul the mail.
Love your work but the DOT doesn't mean open or closed. I'm in Oz and have 2v closed chamber with 4 V valves and we call them 3Vs they work really well love the 351 c
I've been going over this for a little while so what do the dots mean lol?
Very interesting stuff. But for those of us who hate having money in our pockets, how about something on the 429/460. lol
Well, I think we can manage that. But it will be a bit before I want to bore y'all again.
Easy to tell which adults got enough attention as a kid and those that didn't.
LOL
Yup.. Aussie 2v's on a M400. I have in my 56F100.
How can I identify a set of Aussie 2v closed chamber heads?
@@S_C_A_R_F_A_C_E the combustion chamber is not circular. Kinda diamond shaped. (Known as a "poly angle"). the 4V intake ports can swallow a golf ball, but the 2v's are the same size as the open chamber heads, Which are better for street racing.
All the American production 2Barrel Cleveland/400 heads were low compression. but the Aussie's were closed and that is the important part.
I have a pair of the 70 close chamber Cleveland heads. NOS :) Never been used
Great info! Doing research on 351C. Have a 95 Cobra that I do DE's Open track events. Think a 351c in it would be awesome. Had 2 top loaders that I sold and now I'm mad I did. The car is in peace's and I want to do a old school build.
My father had a 66 stang with top loader when I was growing up. My first car was a 66 also.
He had the old school hurst shifter and "T" handle. Want to use those cars for inspiration.
Anyways, any short comings for one of these motors on a road course. Not looking for big power. My current engine is maybe 250hp to the wheels.
The thing I like about it is that motor will grow with me as I want more power. A 351c can make all the power I could ever possibly want.
Johnny d from Australia, I own a rare xa gt falcon , all matching numbers, it has 4v with a dot heads on it and they are closed chambers, I know this because I rebuilt the engine myself as I am a mechanic these heads are very commen here in au they sell for about a thousand dollars au
Great vid, thanks. I have the Aussie 302 closed chamber heads on a 351 C and having a few issues. Running a Comp cam 218/224@050 and im getting 195 psi across the left bank and 210 psi across the right bank. Any clues whats going on? I didnt build it. Is the way I bought it. Cheers and love your work 🙂
The Cleveland is one the best and most interesting small block Ford V8’s ever!
Have you considered reviewing the current aftermarket aluminum cylinder head offerings for the 335 series engines?
i will have to watch this again after i look at the pix i took when changing valve cover gaskets,i didnt know what to look for
Hope you find gold!
The closed chamber 2V's
Were 302 clevelands built in Australia between 72 an 1982
Yup.
I had heard about the dot next to the "4" meaning an open chamber head. Curiously, I have a set of 4V heads from a '71 Mach 1 that I used to own. One head has the dot, one doesn't. Both heads are closed chamber. Any ideas?
Beats me. I'd look at the casting numbers on the heads as well as the date stamps the lifter valley. Since the chamber is not milled but cast, it can't be a casting mistake. email me some photos of the part number on the underside of the intake runner on both heads and the date codes from both. as well as a picture of the chambers, I am VERY curious. jford@autorestomod.com
I have a 71 torino with a 351c with a dot and a 4 but these are closed chamber heads that dot doesn't mean open or closed chamber thanks.
The D3Ze heads were very misunderstood. The smaller valves actually worked quite well. It's also very easy to know if you have a boss 302 head.... water jackets on the intake face of the head... its a can't miss. I don't know... a lot of things he said I disagree with. Ive owned a lot of cleveland motors. The hardest running, highest revving heads were open chamber heads. They unshroud the valves and increase headflow by 20 to 30 cfm. Also, quench extinguushes the flame front so you have a quicker burn but it's incomplete and inefficient. An open chamber is a cleaner and more efficient design... anyways....
The flow numbers i had on 4v Cleveland heads was 275cfm@.600. So the open chamber does even more?
@@dennisrobinson8008 yes especially on exhaust.. I never benched my heads but lots of cleveland racers I know say the trade off of quench for flow is better than even. Ford had emissions in mind when they designed the open chamber heads. It's a much cleaner, complete burn without the quench... thus more power. Key to running open heads is zero or if your daring positive deck. I mill my heads .030 and get them down to about 66 to 67cc, zero deck, flat top with a single relief and you're in the mid to high 9's in compression. That's why the iron 2v head is so competitive with that eddy head. That's a good chamber... with a lot of fake news...lol.
G'Day. I am an Aussie and i own a 72 Ford Falcon XA GT 351 all original and it has the big port 4 dot Heads and they are closed chamber.
Thanks mate we're beginning to wonder what the dots were for lol. It doesn't seem like there was much reasoning to it. Or at least reasoning that we can see.
So, I have a '73 Mach 1 with the 351C 2V engine, and I assume it has dished pistons. I was told when I bought the car the engine had been rebuilt and updated with hardened valve seats. The engine runs good, although it does have a mild, what seems like harmonic vibration up around 2600-2800 RPM. Replacing the harmonic balancer didn't cure it. Anyway it runs good other than that, and I just go to cruise in's with it. However, visions of mods tend to dance in my head. I used to have a '73 Gran Torino with the four bolt main block, and the early close chamber 4V heads. It ran great, had lots of top end power. But these days I'm reading that the smaller 2V heads are better for the street, and a couple of manufacturers offer 4V intakes that will fit the 2V heads. So I'm trying to decide my next step... I suppose my wallet will determine how far I go lol. But my son's '92 LX 5.0 is wearing me out!
.
The Aussie heads are a good head to use, but honestly, the aftermarket aluminum stuff is where it is at.
Vibrations ? Motor mounts ? Transmission mount ?
@@cammontreuil7509 possibly, haven't checked those.
Hot tip. If you order forged pistons for a thirty-thousanth over-bore on a 351 Cleveland, you'll get dished pistons, so as to keep the same compression ratio. Flat-tops will bump it up, which is what you want.
@@aguyinnc2865 ever find out where the vibration came from ?
Its the other way around here in Australia. 4V CC heads here are very hard to come by and expensive if you can find them. Our specific 2V CC heads are easy and reasonably cheap to find as they were original made for the Australian 302C. They needed small chambers to raise the compression with the smaller stroke. Aussie made 351 2V engines had normal open chambers.
Interesting! I was not aware that the 351 4V heads were an issue in Oz.
Aussie 302 heads are the best.Small.port closed chamber
@@AutoRestoMod We also had the worlds fastest four door car in the world, the mighty 1970 GT HO phase 3 ford Falcon. 145mph top speed . you now need a million if you want to buy a good one, if you can find one!
@@AutoRestoMod Yes because so many were thrown aways in the 70-80's nobody wanted them unless they kept their engines stock, anybody building performance street engines used the modified 2V aussie heads, many 4V are buried in tips or peoples back yards
Great information 👍 👌 👏
Appreciate it!
Enjoyed the Enthusiasm but I didn’t enjoy the miss information might want to rehash this video…..
The 74 4v big port heads with the open chambers and 2v small valves are very much not junk!! they actually flow the most air of all the Cleveland iron heads on a 4” bore you can and will make good power with those just get the comp up with some better pistons and some milling etc etc.
(True they are harder to get really high compression with, but they are still a good and capable head not POS you Portray in this video)
Actually the worst thing you can do is put 4v 2.19/2.23 in the 2v small port head it ruins the short turn and you go backwards.
The 3” mains is not a desirable size in racing at higher rpm it’s known to trap the oil between the bearings and crank for to long heating the oil up hence why the 9.2” deck 351c used 2.75” and nascar ended up going even smaller if I’m not mistaken.
At one time, you could get restrictor plates for intake and exhaust, giving better port velocity on 4bbl. heads.
Yep, back in the 80s I have a C power 71 pinto drag car. I called the company that made them and let them know if they supplied a set of those "tongue" plates for me to test and they worked, I would pay for them and be let everybody know... They said they couldn't do that so that was the end of discussion... I believe the company was MPG.
@@claytonsherman2094 As I recall MPG was the manufacturer. They advertised in all the car magazines. Why they Could'nt supply you with the restrictor plates(assuming you were to pay for them), does'nt make sense If one is handy with a torch, they could easily be replicated in light sheet medal.
@@jeromebreeding3302 Yep, that was when they first came out (first time I heard about them). Gave them a call and asked it they would consider sending a set for me to try. Told them if they worked I would gladly pay for them and let all my C motored racers about them. They wouldn't do it. O well, never did try them...
If you want a factory looking cleveland, with plenty of hp, you cant go past a set of Scott Cook heads.
Just came across your channel and subscribed--thanks for the great videos!
You are welcome!
The Ford 302 351C Cleveland 220cc 64cc Hydraulic Roller. Assembled Cylinder Heads. Could you inject explanation of these heads and expectations using these heads? Thanks
Thanks for the info! Can you post something on the 2V Cleveland heads? Is there more than type? Any good? Or just good paperweights?
All 2V heads are essentially the same with chambers within 1 cc and the 351M has a water port on the intake face. The 2V's will easily flow 250+ CFM on the intake and 220 on the exhaust.
Psycho Slag is right. They aren't bad heads at all.
2 v head. Switching to a 1.71 exhaust valve and appropriate port work improves this head.
@@cammontreuil7509 I usually get 250 CFM @ .500 lift with 2.19 intake and 220 CFM @.500 exhaust.
I have a 72 gran torino sport with the 351cj eng. I have 251,000+ miles on the original engine and am thinking of rebuilding it. I have been told with the stock heads I can't get the power I want, 400'450 hp. Which heads would you recommend as it will be a street car not a racer.
I would lean toward the 1970 4V head, but know that you will need to muck with cam timing to run today's fuels. More to the point I'd poke it out to a 383 to really take advantage of the heds.
I have a 351c in my Mach 1 with no stamping on neither corners of the heads however the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner but now it has me thinking what heads they really are off of. 🤷🏻♂️
Pull a valve cover and check the dates in the information and there you'll know pretty quick
I have 3 sets of close chamber 2vs they Came on a Aussie 302c they make good hp
We have a set of those on our 69 Fairlane wagon and really love the way they run.
@@AutoRestoMod I got 11.1 compression with flat tops and decking the block
Not true on SBC intake valve size! The 1.94 valve was in most stock heads and the 2.02 was in the performance heads.
I stand corrected.
from my exp. the 2 bbl clev. heads are plenty big for any street application,i matched up a gasket to a 4 bbl manilfold & they scream
If you multi ultimate scream the Aussie 2V close chamber heads are the way to go.
'73 Mustang 351C-2V & C6 here.
Do the aussie heads have the "2" cast into the corner as well?
How much would you pay for a set of Aussie 2 v Cleveland closed chamber heads?
He didn't talk about the 351m 400cid heads , like what you would find on a 77 f150 4×4 short box ...are thay junk?...my engine has a 2bbl ....us it worth rebuilding....right now the engine runs good but it's old and iam thinking about rebuilding it ..but if it's a junk engine then I doant know
The 400 Cleveland.,and the 351 modified both employ the 2bbl. heads.
Again the dot was to the right of the number 4 on my closed chamber 3514V heads. I have photos of the heads because I rebuilt the engine and verified they are closed chamber Your video of 4v open chamber heads has the dot to the left of the number 4. Maybe that's the difference?
I don't know I'm a bit if we could find the engineer who came up with the. idea I would do a full interview just to He's my worried mind.
Your nuts. The small valve 4v d3ve AA head is the best flowing Cleveland head period. I’ve built numerous engines with these heads. The last one made 511 hp at 6700. With 9.5 compression.
Let's not bring my nuts into this.
Steve keep quiet about it. Or the price will go up. Keep telling people these heads are junk so we can get them cheap.
Lol maybe i was a bit harsh. The d3 head is nothing to sneeze at. I’m hoping to do a all out street engine with these heads see what i can get. The last street motor surprised me.
@@stevecleveland357 someone needs to end the myths and do it Dyno testing.
@@jesse75 Im helping a Friend right now with stock eliminator car. He’s using these heads and 550+ hp now. We hope to gain another 25hp but under the rules.
I have a set of 4V heads close chambre and in the corner there is the number 4 with the Canon ball
It is interesting to me. What are the date codes on the heads?
I have never heard of the bigger journal crankshaft as a advantage? They have more surface area & it creates greater bearing speed witch is more friction & more heat?
More lubrication and surface spins slower was what I was always told. Like a tire, the larger the tire the slower the rotation.
Actually Jesse is correct. The outside of a larger circle (bike wheel) will travel faster at the same RPM than the smaller circle does (bike hub). i.e. it'll travel farther in the same amount of time. For instance bigger tires will make your speedometer register slow. That was one of the issues with the 351W because it had such a huge main bearing whereas the Cleveland had a much smaller main bearing and was less likely to spin the bearing. My two cents. Either way clean oil should make it live for whatever you're doing.
That is what you read but have no hands on experience with.
It is known when Ford motorsport came out with the Nascar block, Windsor deck height but with Cleveland main bearing size.
The Cleveland gets its main bearing size from the FE. A fully groved bearing works good in a Cleveland block.
I have built super stock racing engines both Cleveland blocks and Windsor and motorsport blocks.
Comparable track rules, engines all ran nearly same times in the same car. This was done at the short track at Monroe Washington.
At a long track maybe there would be an advantage. But having bigger mains never that fact showing a difference.
One thing I did find changing from a Cleveland rod to a Windsor rod length picked up some torque and speed when coming out of a corner.
@@cammontreuil7509 clevland mains are smaller than windsors & 351m. Lol
@@jesseduke694 you have poor comprehension.
Unless you said that statement to verify it for yourself.
Great video!!
Good information bro
Question??? I have 73 Gran Torino with the 351c 2v heads will i need to do any block modifications to put 4v heads on that engine.
Nope you will have to have exhaust manifolds or headers and a 4V intake manifold to work with them.
If you are putting together a strong street motor 4-500hp, it is best to stick with your 2V heads. Look at your valve sizes, back in the day the Chevy boys were putting the same size to make their double hump heads hotter. Do a little porting to match your intake runners. Also, you will want to do some machine work to the block to help oiling. I bought a Ford Engines book that had specifics about the builds for CanAm & Pantera engines and followed when I built mine. I could save you a lot of time and just sell you mine. 🤑 Too many projects, not enuff time.
Did I see the new guy beat the damper on with a hammer, yes I did, I just wish I tried out for the show.
Has anyone ever investigated hogging out a 4V Cleveland head to 1969 Boss 302 valve sizes (2.23/1.73)? It seems like that would be a killer combo, kinda "secret weapon" style, on a 351 block with a 383 stroker kit installed!
4 . (Dot) heads can.be either open or closed chamber
Not in my experience; the head I had in my lap was a DOAE head and it doesn't have the dot. I am almost positive that Ford did that starting in 1971 as the closed chamber head was still in use on the "M" VIN code engines. After 1971 all heads were open chamber, but Ford didn't remove the dot, I'd like to see a picture of the head you are talking about.
@@AutoRestoMod I haven't actually seen them but I've also heard on numerous examples of the Dot being on both open and closed chamber.
I heard the "dot" = "open chamber" thing a few years ago. What I've found from looking at numerous 4V heads in the meantime is that it's more a rule of thumb than a guarantee. It seems to be accurate in the majority of cases, but for some reason Ford wasn't 100% consistent with it.
@@AutoRestoMod you are mistaken on the "dot". It has no significance in determining open or closed chamber. Sorry, but you are propagating misinformation.
Aussie here, have had cars with both our locally made (Geelong engine plant, Victoria) 351C and the unique to Australia 302C.
Ford Australia took a good design and made it a little better.
Sadly, we don't make cars of any make anymore due to crummy cheap imports.
The open chamber 4V keeps more torque from 4000 revs than the quench cousin
The Aussie heads also don’t have any markings on them
I’m having over heating problems what’s the best fan but I have also trouble space with radiator that I have
Get the TMeyer thermostat for your Cleveland.
It solved all of my overheating problems.
Make sure it has a fan shroud. Check the timing.
i have a set of the aussie closed chamber heads ,yay!!!!!!!!
Those are the bees knees mate!
Hi man , me Fred from the Netherlands , can you tell me what pistons , aftermarket cylinderheads, cam , intake and carb. I need to make my 1979 Lincoln Mark V grow some balls ? I need power !!
hope to hear from ya
If it's a big block engine like a 460 , you'll want to get a set of after-market four sixty heads for it. Update the cam to a roller High performance grind. I set of hyperutectic pistons in a flat top configuration should do the trick.
So what kind of Information you got on the 260?? If I can make 250hp with mine I’ll cut a back flip!! I have a Holley 4bbl vac secondary, 600, an old school Weiand intake and a Comp cam. ( I don’t have the cam card in front of me I’m at work on lunch break 🤷♂️). I’m installing a 3:55 ring gear in the ole 8in and fixing the peg leg with a mini spool. Will it explode violently?? Probably. But I have another chunk so, I’ll have another one to explode.
The 260 can be made to run well. But there is no substitute for cubic inches accept maybe cubic air via a turbo or supercharger.
@@AutoRestoMod running well and strong ISH’ is all I’m going for on this build at this point. I’ll be on the look out for a 302 to make it a little more stout down the road. It’s in a 2dr comet, so it’s fairly light.
The first Cobra's had 260's. Goggle how Shelby built them.
Can't you buy an aluminum 351 boss head?
This all makes a great video...... but it's really almost 35 years late.....!
Last time I checked I still have a set of Cleveland cylinder heads on my engine in the shop. And a pair on a shelf. And a pair on another Cleveland in Texas that I own. There's still a pretty big following for these out there.
You may want to find out more about the DOT.
I have tried but there is no consensus.. And I can't find any original engineering information to know how and why they did the dot and when they did it
I have a set of 351 modified heads and there is no number or letter stamped in the corner.