I would definitely welcome Maxine back to the fold. Cindy, Terry, Maxine and Rhona was the first En Vogue concert I had ever attended. I will always love the ladies..EV5, EV4 or EV3...En Vogue fan forever.
YES to Maxine coming back!!!! 🎼Excellent Episode!🎹 I also keep EV in my playlists along with SWV, Destiny's Child, The Pointer Sisters, Labelle, and The Clark Sisters. 🎶 I wonder if the Shindellas and Flo should pull some influences from EV and The Spice Girls. 🎵 I'd love to see them push the envelope.
While we love the MJG, this notion that they were the same due to their predilection for persona led costuming simply isn’t true. The Spice Girls were not the brainchild of a particular artist and their production style - as the MJG were with Rick James - the SG were initially brought together under the auspices of a father-son management team. Said team couldn’t control the group, who would ditch the Herberts, write most of the material to constitute their debut, seek out their label and future manager on their own. This was unheard of in the British music industry of 1994/1995, mostly driven my male vocal groups. This part of their origin story is usually and purposefully omitted by some today to push a narrative that the SG were pre-fab pop puppets when they were anything but the sort. I’ve written a book on these ladies here if you are curious for a proper deep dive: Record Redux: Spice Girls (2nd Edition) available via Amazon.
I do hope Maxine comes back to the group! She could juggle her solo & group career. I'm still holding out hope for an eventual EV5 reunion. I used to be a huge Spice Girls fan back in the day. I'm so glad that Mel B was able to keep her Afro-centric style throughout the groups' career without compromising herself. My favorite album of theirs is their third one "Forever" because it leaned more into hip-hop and r&b than the other two. I find a bunch of the background vocal arrangements on the album to be interesting like on Wasting My Time, Holler, Weekend Love, etc. I know the version of that album they were planning before Geri left was VERY different but I do wonder what she would've sounded like on the album we got had she stayed. Also, their 3rd album is actually VERY pivotal to music history cause Rodney stated in an interview that the SG introduced with the the UK Garage music which influenced his work on Brandy's Full Moon album and Michael Jackson's Invincible album. I do think the SG and EV needed what the other group had. EV need a better marketing machine, they should've had a bunch of campaigns, even more magazine covers (a major group named in En Vogue should've been on the cover of several covers of Vogue magazine), & such. (I know Dawn said in an interview she was telling the others they should have their on like lipstick line but apparently they disagreed) Imo SG, as a whole, needed the vocals & dancing EV have.
Respectfully disagree. En Vogue might have more technical prowess, but make no mistake, the Spice Girls were (and are) more than capable of handling themselves on and off the record. And dance? I think the Spice Girls are far superior dancers as any of their choreography would attest; four of the five of them were formally trained. I’d also like to direct you to any of their actual concerts and their 2012 Olympics performance. I think both groups are who and what they are and that’s contributed to their rich and varied journeys respectively.
@@TheQHBlend1 EV not only had more technical vocal prowess they had natural vocal abilities. They set the standard for all those 90's girl groups and even til today. If you look at their live performances EV was singing in unison, 2, 3, and 4 part harmonies (sometimes with no backing tracks) whilst dancing in high heels. Both vocal arrangements and choreography were intricate. I've seen/heard just about every SG concert from the '97 Istanbul concert special to their 2019 reunion tour and saw the Olympics performance live and many times afterwards. From what I've seen, they sung a bunch of 2-3 part harmonies, not as intricate. They did get better when Geri left but was nothing like many of the other girl groups and boy bands I've grown up with. As far as dance, even when Geri left the group and it was just the 4 formally trained members their choreography got better but wasn't as intricate as it could've been. Which might have to do with the fact that Mel B was their choreographer (no shade cause she can dance her ass off) instead of them having a choreographer like Frank Gatson, Fatima Robinson, Laurie-Ann Gibson, etc. Love both groups but like I stated before they could've used aspects of what the other group had so we can just agree to disagree....
@@JamaicanFlava Melanie B was never their choreographer actually. Personally, I don’t think Frank Gatson is the upper echelon of choreographers, respectfully, but I digress. I think you are approaching this solely from the R&B girl group perspective, as such, I think you’ve made some comments/missed some things about the SG that EV lacks imho. Which is why, for me, I think its best to take these groups as they are, see where there is some influence and move forward. That the SG are actual songwriters puts them in a wholly different class than EV occupies as only occasional songwriters, they’re moreso interpreters. Further, the SG had a balance of voice, lyric and production where the SG worked with each voice from most technical to least and that sound was singular for them. But as you said, I think we can agree to disagree due to our differing perspectives. Cheers though.
@@TheQHBlend1Mel B has stated in several interviews that she was their choreographer, so if she wasn't then who was? I mean regardless of what you think about Frank, he has given EV some amazing choreography (even to other artists) but I respect your opinion, did list 2 more of choreographers lol. I can see why you think that I'm approaching this from an R&B gg perspective but really I was doing so from a 90's gg perspective in general seeing as having intricate harmonies & choreography isn't relative to just R&B acts . Agreed SG were dope songwriters but they also had more opportunity (or at least felt like) to do so than EV. Who knows how good EV would've been as songwriters had they not been as dependent on Foster-McElroy (at least Dawn got to do a bunch of dope co writing on Lucy Pearl's album). I don't think that SG always had a great balance like you mentioned, yes they worked with all of their voices but it didn't always have fruitful results (mainly cause of Geri's vocals). I do, however, think they really got that balance on their last album working with Rodney Jerkins, LaShawn Daniels, and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis who all are/ were (R.I.P LaShawn) able to bring about the best out of a singer's vocals. In conclusion, my comments came from a place feeling like both groups could've done better, in certain areas. But you're right though it's probably best to just take the groups as they were/are. Yes cheers to being able to have a respectful discussion, I've had my fair share of the opposite on here lol.
@@JamaicanFlava Priscilla Samuels (who did Istanbul), Darrin Henson (who did Christmas in Spiceworld) and Paul Roberts (who did Spice World 2019) to name just three. This isn’t to say Melanie B didn’t offer up steps, but she was never the principal choreographer on the whole. Additionally, despite Geri being the least technical of the five, do not undersell her. Her contralto brought texture to the Spice Girls harmony and it did shift when she left, very much in how the harmony shifted again when Victoria didn’t do the last tour. Geri has her own unique vocal profile. Also, the Spice Girls were about a balance between precision and improvisation; if everything was choreographed, vocally or otherwise, there would have been no room for the Spice Girls to grow as artists, as a unit and eventually in their own solo careers. This isn’t to say that they didn’t move as unit because they did have that sort of vibe too when they wanted to, they could do both. TBC, I’ve written extensively about the Girls and I’m hip to “Forever,” a solid pop album. But with that said, one cannot undervalue previous pieces like “2 Become 1,” “Take Me Home,” “Something Kinda Funny,” “The Lady is a Vamp,” “Too Much” or “Walk of Life.” It’s always cool to chat with people. Feel free to give me a follow on IG (@ retromodernfly) and check out my “Forever” piece here: albumism.com/features/spice-girls-forever-turns-20-anniversary-retrospective
I would definitely welcome Maxine back to the fold. Cindy, Terry, Maxine and Rhona was the first En Vogue concert I had ever attended. I will always love the ladies..EV5, EV4 or EV3...En Vogue fan forever.
YES to Maxine coming back!!!! 🎼Excellent Episode!🎹 I also keep EV in my playlists along with SWV, Destiny's Child, The Pointer Sisters, Labelle, and The Clark Sisters. 🎶 I wonder if the Shindellas and Flo should pull some influences from EV and The Spice Girls. 🎵 I'd love to see them push the envelope.
You guys need to check out Cleo's performance of Don't Let Go on The Voice UK - she absolutely killed it!
Shoutout to the Mary Jane Girls the original spice girls 😉
While we love the MJG, this notion that they were the same due to their predilection for persona led costuming simply isn’t true. The Spice Girls were not the brainchild of a particular artist and their production style - as the MJG were with Rick James - the SG were initially brought together under the auspices of a father-son management team. Said team couldn’t control the group, who would ditch the Herberts, write most of the material to constitute their debut, seek out their label and future manager on their own. This was unheard of in the British music industry of 1994/1995, mostly driven my male vocal groups. This part of their origin story is usually and purposefully omitted by some today to push a narrative that the SG were pre-fab pop puppets when they were anything but the sort.
I’ve written a book on these ladies here if you are curious for a proper deep dive: Record Redux: Spice Girls (2nd Edition) available via Amazon.
I do hope Maxine comes back to the group! She could juggle her solo & group career. I'm still holding out hope for an eventual EV5 reunion.
I used to be a huge Spice Girls fan back in the day. I'm so glad that Mel B was able to keep her Afro-centric style throughout the groups' career without compromising herself. My favorite album of theirs is their third one "Forever" because it leaned more into hip-hop and r&b than the other two. I find a bunch of the background vocal arrangements on the album to be interesting like on Wasting My Time, Holler, Weekend Love, etc. I know the version of that album they were planning before Geri left was VERY different but I do wonder what she would've sounded like on the album we got had she stayed.
Also, their 3rd album is actually VERY pivotal to music history cause Rodney stated in an interview that the SG introduced with the the UK Garage music which influenced his work on Brandy's Full Moon album and Michael Jackson's Invincible album.
I do think the SG and EV needed what the other group had. EV need a better marketing machine, they should've had a bunch of campaigns, even more magazine covers (a major group named in En Vogue should've been on the cover of several covers of Vogue magazine), & such. (I know Dawn said in an interview she was telling the others they should have their on like lipstick line but apparently they disagreed)
Imo SG, as a whole, needed the vocals & dancing EV have.
Respectfully disagree. En Vogue might have more technical prowess, but make no mistake, the Spice Girls were (and are) more than capable of handling themselves on and off the record. And dance? I think the Spice Girls are far superior dancers as any of their choreography would attest; four of the five of them were formally trained. I’d also like to direct you to any of their actual concerts and their 2012 Olympics performance. I think both groups are who and what they are and that’s contributed to their rich and varied journeys respectively.
@@TheQHBlend1
EV not only had more technical vocal prowess they had natural vocal abilities. They set the standard for all those 90's girl groups and even til today. If you look at their live performances EV was singing in unison, 2, 3, and 4 part harmonies (sometimes with no backing tracks) whilst dancing in high heels. Both vocal arrangements and choreography were intricate.
I've seen/heard just about every SG concert from the '97 Istanbul concert special to their 2019 reunion tour and saw the Olympics performance live and many times afterwards. From what I've seen, they sung a bunch of 2-3 part harmonies, not as intricate. They did get better when Geri left but was nothing like many of the other girl groups and boy bands I've grown up with.
As far as dance, even when Geri left the group and it was just the 4 formally trained members their choreography got better but wasn't as intricate as it could've been. Which might have to do with the fact that Mel B was their choreographer (no shade cause she can dance her ass off) instead of them having a choreographer like Frank Gatson, Fatima Robinson, Laurie-Ann Gibson, etc.
Love both groups but like I stated before they could've used aspects of what the other group had so we can just agree to disagree....
@@JamaicanFlava Melanie B was never their choreographer actually. Personally, I don’t think Frank Gatson is the upper echelon of choreographers, respectfully, but I digress. I think you are approaching this solely from the R&B girl group perspective, as such, I think you’ve made some comments/missed some things about the SG that EV lacks imho. Which is why, for me, I think its best to take these groups as they are, see where there is some influence and move forward. That the SG are actual songwriters puts them in a wholly different class than EV occupies as only occasional songwriters, they’re moreso interpreters. Further, the SG had a balance of voice, lyric and production where the SG worked with each voice from most technical to least and that sound was singular for them. But as you said, I think we can agree to disagree due to our differing perspectives. Cheers though.
@@TheQHBlend1Mel B has stated in several interviews that she was their choreographer, so if she wasn't then who was?
I mean regardless of what you think about Frank, he has given EV some amazing choreography (even to other artists) but I respect your opinion, did list 2 more of choreographers lol.
I can see why you think that I'm approaching this from an R&B gg perspective but really I was doing so from a 90's gg perspective in general seeing as having intricate harmonies & choreography isn't relative to just R&B acts .
Agreed SG were dope songwriters but they also had more opportunity (or at least felt like) to do so than EV. Who knows how good EV would've been as songwriters had they not been as dependent on Foster-McElroy (at least Dawn got to do a bunch of dope co writing on Lucy Pearl's album).
I don't think that SG always had a great balance like you mentioned, yes they worked with all of their voices but it didn't always have fruitful results (mainly cause of Geri's vocals). I do, however, think they really got that balance on their last album working with Rodney Jerkins, LaShawn Daniels, and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis who all are/ were (R.I.P LaShawn) able to bring about the best out of a singer's vocals.
In conclusion, my comments came from a place feeling like both groups could've done better, in certain areas. But you're right though it's probably best to just take the groups as they were/are. Yes cheers to being able to have a respectful discussion, I've had my fair share of the opposite on here lol.
@@JamaicanFlava Priscilla Samuels (who did Istanbul), Darrin Henson (who did Christmas in Spiceworld) and Paul Roberts (who did Spice World 2019) to name just three. This isn’t to say Melanie B didn’t offer up steps, but she was never the principal choreographer on the whole.
Additionally, despite Geri being the least technical of the five, do not undersell her. Her contralto brought texture to the Spice Girls harmony and it did shift when she left, very much in how the harmony shifted again when Victoria didn’t do the last tour. Geri has her own unique vocal profile.
Also, the Spice Girls were about a balance between precision and improvisation; if everything was choreographed, vocally or otherwise, there would have been no room for the Spice Girls to grow as artists, as a unit and eventually in their own solo careers. This isn’t to say that they didn’t move as unit because they did have that sort of vibe too when they wanted to, they could do both. TBC, I’ve written extensively about the Girls and I’m hip to “Forever,” a solid pop album. But with that said, one cannot undervalue previous pieces like “2 Become 1,” “Take Me Home,” “Something Kinda Funny,” “The Lady is a Vamp,” “Too Much” or “Walk of Life.”
It’s always cool to chat with people. Feel free to give me a follow on IG (@ retromodernfly) and check out my “Forever” piece here: albumism.com/features/spice-girls-forever-turns-20-anniversary-retrospective