In the books, the idea that Jessica was Leto's concubine and not his wife is more strongly emphasized. This is a world where marriage is about strategic alliances and is accepted as such. Jessica and Chani also have a telling discussion in which Jessica reminds Chani that even though neither of them were married, history will call them "wives."
Unfortunately they destroyed Chani in this adaptation. Good thing she has almost no presence in Messiah because her character is fanfiction lvl bad here.
Yeah I feel like both movies mention it.... but if you didn't already know that, it'd be easy to miss. Dune Part 1 has Leto saying "I should've married you" to Jessica. Dune Part 2 has Jessica saying to Paul that her sister reminds him to save his hand for a strategic alliance.... overall it could've been made slightly more obvious I think. Mass movie audiences are pretty dumb unfortunately.... you kind of have to spoon feed them things for them to understand.
"How do you get off?" This is explained in the book, and in at least one RUclips video (posted by Giant Freakin Robot). The basic notion is that being forced to travel on the surface and carry riders is very exhausting for a worm, and eventually it slows down. When it's moving slowly enough everyone jumps off -- with the person controlling the worm last to jump -- and the worm then sinks down into the sand to sulk and recover. After that another thumper is planted to call another worm and the cycle continues until the journey is complete. The Fremen actually measure long distances in "thumpers" which is the count of how many worms have to be captured and ridden to exhaustion to travel all the way to a destination.
In the book Chani expected Paul to marry for political advantage. In the throne room scene, both Paul and Jessica told Chani that he would never love or touch the Princess. It was just business. In fact Chani was pretty much treated as Empress in everything but name.
Regarding that line of "there are no sides" From the Bene Gesserit point of view, they play all the angles so if you are on all sides, there are no sides, just different plans of "yours"
Exactly. Thats why she makes the point at the end to call her "Reverend Mother" as in... yes I lost, but you, a Bene Gesserit, are still key, so the order continues.
The reason the Laansrad (the other family houses) did not accept his ascendency to the throne was because they saw this as an opportunity to ascend the throne themselves, they still didn't understand the power and capability of the fremen and assumed that they were just stranded on the planet and they could just take over arrakis themselves. There's another reason but it might be a spoiler for part 3.
I thought in the in the book the guild told everyone to go home (or lose the ability to return home) because Paul had the ability to permanently destroy the spice and the makers. All the battle of the Jihad happens on the resisting landsraad planets because the guild would only transport Paul’s forces
@Niven110 yes it does happen. Because Paul has the ability to kill all worms and that would leave the spice guild without the means to travel and bend space. I was talking about the families in my first comment.
She stayed as a rear guard spy-She took Paul’s place, as he wanted to stay to avoid going South. She made it possible for Paul to leave. Which Paul did not want to do, but in the end felt he had to do.
Feyd defeating an Atreides veteran warrior, without a shield, is incredibly impressive. The Atreides legions were considered the greatest fighters in the galaxy, aside from the Fremen unbeknownst to them at the time.
That's also Landville. He was in the first part when Stilgar came to visit Leto. He's the one that says "Hey stop right there!" and also he's the one who orders "Shields" when they land on Arrakis before opening the doors.
The Kwisatz Haderach was expected from the crossing of the Atreides and Harkonnen bloodlines. Jessica was supposed to have a girl who would be mated with Feyd-Rautha; however, Leto wanted a son, and Jessica chose not to deny him. Surprise!
@@gualacheesesteak In Part 1, as she is walking back to her ship after testing Paul, Reverend Mother Mohiam says to Jessica "You were told to bear only daughters! But you, in your pride, thought you could produce the Kwisatz Hederach." So at least that part is explained.
Reverend Mothers _are_ Bene Gesserit, so they know the Voice. That's how Stilgar recognized her skills at the end of the first movie, calling her a 'weirding woman'. So the culture is a fascinating mix of ancient philosophy/propaganda (depending who you ask) and modern 'secular' resistance to the Harkonnen oppression.
Remember, the bene gesserit aren’t the only ones that can create the Reverend mothers. It’s hinted in the lore that the Fremen already had the equivalents of Reverend Mothers but the Bene Gesserit still infiltrated and manipulated their religion and culture
The hooks pry up the sandworm's outer scales and expose the tender undersides to the abrasive effects of the sand. As a result, the worm turns its body to keep sand out from under the plates, and that is how a Fremen controls the worm's progress and keeps it from diving deeper under the sand.
1:06 and the emperor said: it needs more cowbells Having read the book and seen the older movie I went into this one blind as to the cast I didn't want to know anything . So I was seriously freaked when I saw that it was Christopher Walken playing the emperor. You see several years ago he starred in the music video by Fatboy slim called weapons of choice. In it there are several references to Dune. Such as walk without rhythm or you'll attract a worm. Great reaction I love the book and movie and you did it proud.
The emperor was told that the Atridies were popular with the other houses. It was the bene gessart who wanted them wiped out because they were hard to control. So they put the idea in the emperors head of Atridies popularity. Knowing this woukd trigger his jealousy and wipe them out.
This was only in the movie adaptation. In the book, the Bene Gesserit were not part of the Emperor’s conspiracy to destroy House Atreides. They were aware of what was coming, but they were not active participants.
Also, the Atriedes were the only House in the Empire that could field warriors that were a match for the Emperor's Sardukar legions. That, plus their popularity, made them a threat to overtake the Emperor. On the opposite side, the Harkonen's were becoming absurdly wealthy due to control of Arrakis, and therefore Spice, so their wealth alone was also threatening the Emperors power. By having them war like this, he weakens both significantly.
@@KS-xk2sothat’s also why Leto wanted the fremen to join. Fremen fighters that had Duncan Idaho on the ropes. And let’s not forget the fremen sent the sardukar running
@@SunsetRoguethere’s also the spacing guild wanting Paul dead. Though the irony of the matter was that Mohiam said Jessica and Paul were under their protection, though I would think Mohiam was trying to keep the guild’s involvement hidden
The Freman's Reverend Mother belonged to the Lost Bene Gesserits whose existence became known again only to the Sisterhood during the Harkonnen occupation of Dune. Lady Fenring when she was based on Dune made contact with Ramallo, hence how the Mohiam and Sisterhood could keep tabs on Dune. Mohiam and Ramallo were friends before Ramallo disappeared. While in both Dune adaptations, the Baron is revealed to be Paul's grandpa, what is not mentioned is the grandma---Reverend Mohiam.
Who knows, the Fremen had limited prescience ability (centuries to millennia of exposure to spice) and their equivalent to reverend mothers (Syedina/wild reverend mothers) even before the Bene Gesserit infiltrated their culture. They may have foreseen some basic vision of Paul’s coming.
Best movie of 2024. Best theater experience anyone has ever had in decades. The chairs shook when the worms were on screen and the entire audience is silent when the credits role. This is Empire Strikes Back and The Two Towers of our era.
Geidi Prime orbits a "dark star" whose light cannot carry color. Thus you get black, white and shades of grey. You'll notice there are colors from indoor lighting.
If you remember in the first movie, the Bene Gesserit woman that made him do the whole box thing.... she told him he inherited a lot of power. He said "because I'm a duke's son?" and she said "No. Because you are Jessica's son." She was telling him that not only would he inherit the Atreides from his father....but also the Harkonnen from his mother.
Remember that the Bene Gesserit are moving in the shadows, their breeding program is done secretly. Jessica was assigned to be with Duke Leto by the Reverend Mother Mohiam. What is hinted is that Lady Jessica's teacher was her mother and also part of the secret breeding program. The goal of the Bene Gesserit is to create the Kwisatz Haderach but maintain control of him, to train him to keep their power. However, the Kwisatz Haderach is going to be too powerful to control. As the end happens, Paul becomes the most powerful being in the Universe, fully aware of the future, what is happening and what is going to happen as well as the scion of House Atreides and now Harkonnen. The remaining houses of the Landsraad all see him as too powerful now and all see an opportunity to take control of spice. But also Paul has shortcomings too. He can see the future but the Bene Gesserit have ways to cloud the future as they plot to manipulate him or eliminate him.
The Dune prequel series Dune: Prophecy starts in 2 weeks on HBO. (Nov 17th). It's set 10,000 years before these movies and tells the story of The Bene Geserit order. Will you guys consider reacting to it when it premiers?😊
Thanks for all the support guys! Like & Subscribe to catch some of your favorite shows and movies with us! Check out our Dune: Part 1 Reaction - ruclips.net/video/6WzLLa-iSDM/видео.html Link to our Instagram - instagram.com/macreact
In the books, Paul Maud'dib's rise takes years-long enough for Paul and Chani to marry and have a child. Jessica gives birth to Alia, who is a toddler when the Emperor comes to Arakkis.
47:20 The Baron wasn't lying at that moment - the Emperor did (illegally, I might add) attack Arrakis with his Sardaukar forces. He was not supposed to destroy the power balance in that way, it was understood that Arrakis would be ruled in his stead by one of the Great Houses of the Landsraad at all times, thereby splitting control of Spice production between the Emperor and the Great Houses.
And that is part of the failure of the Faufreluches political system; it is all about balance and harmony where eveything and everyone is in their place. The moment something or someone puts the system out of balance, it can threaten to topple the entire system. In this case, the Atreides was getting more influence politically due to Leto's charisma, and their power was increasing due to the army being within a hair of being as good as the Sarudaukar. It needed to be delt with quickly and quietly asit was undermining House Corrino's power and influence.
The Landsraat, the united political group of the Great Houses, are used to being the ones to decide who the emperor is. Paul popping up out of nowhere claiming the throne would be rejected off hand. However, with Paul and the Fremen willing to fight to keep the throne, the Great Houses are gonna fall in line pretty quicklike. Don't forget, spice is needed for space travel. Paul controls all spice so his army can travel at will to anywhere, but the Houses are stuck on their home worlds, without the aid of the other houses. The Bene Gesserit knew the kwizatz Haderach was to be a male, that is why they commanded all their acolytes used for breeding to have daughters. The Bene Gesserit would go to each Great House and obtain "a sample" as needed, during the whole process of genetic engineering. The combination of Harkonnen and Atreides families was to be the last step in birthing the Kwizatz Haderach. Jessica having a male child threw off hundreds of years of planning by one generation.
Just to add, Paul took the throne via a military coup using an armed force of Fremen who are generally viewed as native savages by the Landsraad. If Paul had gone to the Landsraad and pled his case they very well could have united with him against the Emperor but he chose a very different path that bypassed any semblance of government.
@@obelisk21 You brought up an interesting alternative course of action Paul could have taken. That path would probably end up with the Emperor dethroned and exiled or dead for his crime. But it could also happen that the Landsraad would then choose someone else, not Paul, to be the new Emperor. The fanatics among the Fremen wouldn’t get their holy war.
@@obelisk21 then again, with Paul's ability to see future paths, maybe he already saw that path either wouldn't work at all or would be even worse than the path chosen. OR, leaning into Paul actually being the bad guy, that path simply wasn't as efficient or quick.
Love that you guys do the films justice in terms of reaction length. I legit saw a Dune reaction that was 30 minutes total including intro/discussion... crazy
15:53 Dune parts 1 and 2 were shown in different types of Imax theaters. The best ones were the the theaters with either 70mm or GT Laser projectors and 1.43.1 aspect ratio screens. I bought tickets for Dune part 2 for Austin, TX and drove there from Wyoming (about 1000 miles). However, I was delayed and missed the show. So I then drove to Branson, Missouri (another 600 miles) to see it in a GT Laser/1.43:1 theater. It was definitely worth it. And the explosion on this scene was absolutely amazing with the sound system.
What you saw, the Harkonen target the Fremen ambushed in the desert, was a Spice Harvester-Anytime you find outworlders in Arrakis’ desert 🏜️, it’s for Spice Harvesting, smuggling Spice, or in the case of the Harkonens, hunting the Fremen as well.
The Bene Gesserit at the end who says there are no sides, was pointing out very accurately that that Paul's side had a Bene Gesserit advisor just the same. They don't lose because they have a representative on every side so regardless of how it plays out their order continues to be advisors and manipulators to those in power.
Dune Part Two! On Mac Reacts! How have I not hopped onto your Dune Part One reaction with this one actor from Moon Knight! It's so awesomely intense and remote! Can't' wait to get the six books and dive in! What a stellar cast! I gotta hop onto a set of reactions of yours I've spontaneously been bingeing on! BRB when I see Dune Part Two stream somewhere!
56:18 she’s saying that all of this conflict was being orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit in a way that they never really “lose”, it’s just part of their plans that have been panning out over millennia
Jessica didn't say she was pregnant because her destiny was to either die or become Reverend Mother. Either way, the child 'dies' so it's a moot point. By going through with it the fetus became 'awakened' just like Jessica, thus opening her eyes and communicating like a full-grown adult
For reference... the old Bene Gesserit lady that tested Paul... is his Grandmother. As Lady Fenring was tasked wih preserving a bloodline, so was the Emperor's truthsayer tasked in her youth. Yes she is Jessica's mother. 🤔😮
That’s according to Frank Herbert’s son, Brian. I read somewhere that Frank stated that Jessica’s mother was an unknown Bene Gesserit named Tanidia Nerus. He never intended her to be Mohiam. It doesn’t even work from a logical perspective to be considered canon. After drinking the Water Of Life, both Paul and Jessica easily saw their genetic past. Through Other Memory, they would know who was Jessica’s mother. The fact they never acknowledged this revelation about Mohiam the way they did for the Baron in the novel means that Mohiam was not their ancestor. If Frank wanted this family link, he would have mentioned it somewhere in his book series. He never did and Brian disregarded what his father established.
@@SunsetRogue that's your interpretation, according to the estate, they were notes to the effect Mohiam was the mother, Tanidia Nerus just an alias, to further disguise the origin. As expected of the Bene Gesserit...
The reason this didn’t feel like a “sequal” is because it isn’t. It’s part 2. The first movie covers roughly the 1st half of the first book. This movie is the 2nd of the same book. Regarding the other houses, it’s never really covered in the movies but briefly mentioned. There is a congress of sorts, The Landsrad, that is made up of the other houses. Their purpose is to act as a sort of check to the emperors power. Jessica never knew she was the daughter of the Baron because she was taken by the Bene Gesserit at an extremely young age. Also , I don’t think it’s ever said outright but it’s strongly hinted that Giaus Helen Mohiam (sp?) is her mother. The reason the Bene Gesserit were upset with Jessica for her having a son, is because she was instructed to have a daughter that could then be paired with Fayd Rautha and hopefully produce the Kwizatz Haderach. But Jessica loved the Duke and gave him the son he wanted. The Bene Gesserit want to manage his arrival so they can control him and rule. The whole “prophecy” thing seems to line up because it was indeed a superstition planted by an arm of the Bene Gesserit known as the Missionaria Protectiva (sp?). It is a tool used by the order to manage populations and to help any sister who may become stranded or separated. They have done this on hundreds of worlds. The reason that they were shocked to find out Jessica was pregnant is because drinking the water of life while pregnant is huge no no. It has the same effect on the fetus as the mother. So in effect the fetus absorbs the personalities and powers of all the previous reverend mothers before ever developing a personality or moral compass of their own. Very dangerous. It’s called abomination and is expressly forbidden.
46:30, the Kwitzach Haderach was always meant to be a man. But the Bene Gesserit planned to control him. But Paul being an Atreides he is too strong willed and can’t be controlled.
Realize that being the Fremen Reverand Mother makes Jessica the equivalent of the woman who tested Paul with the gom-jabar. The agents of the Bene Gesserit among the Fremen appear to have taught their techniques to the Fremen women.
Excellent reaction! This is how it's supposed to be done. Let the film breathe, let the plot's emotions hit you, and drop banger comments periodically to let the viewer know you get what's going on, and are feeling it! Bravo! New subscriber!
This film is so well done and so beautiful, I love the contrast and in a way the death of Paul and the birth of the Kwisatz Haderach, I Think Timothée performed the duality so well how as Paul he doubted he questioned but then after drinking the water of life he was sure of himself he knew what had to be done
12:04 Ok, I'm going to try to explain this while avoiding spoilers... The Water of Life gave Alia the same awareness as an adult has. It also gave her all the memories Jessica has, and the memories that the Reverend Mother passed on to Jessica. So Alia is a fully conscious person inside Jessica's womb. Alia also has all the abilities of a full Reverend Mother. One of the things that pissed off fans of the novel was that Dune part 2 did not use motion capture to give us the 3-year old Alia with an adult's brain telling adult jokes that the novel gave us.
The Baron didn’t know Jessica is his daughter. When he was young he allowed himself to be seduced by a Bene Gesserit. I say allowed because Baron Harkonnen preferred teenage boys in the novel. That Bene Gesserit secretly got impregnated to secure his genetic bloodline for their breeding program, just as Lady Fenring had done with Feyd-Rautha in this movie.
Just because Paul does not see himself as the prophesied messiah does not mean that he is not the one who will deliver the Fremen from their "bondage."
@@Musabre, Paul's only ambition was to get revenge for the deaths of his entire family. However, his becoming the Kwisatz Haderach showed him that following this path was the only way to prevent more horrors.
@@LeeCarlson The mistake here is to assume everything Paul sees/knows IS the only way forward. His "becoming the Kwisatz Haderach showed him that following this path was the only way to prevent more horrors", to quote you, is only true if you accept Paul's word as gospel. Part of the danger and the warning of Dune is accepting what charismatic leaders say and blindly following them. For all WE know, Paul was wrong, and the horrors that he perpetrated were a result of his decisions, not inevitable. There's no real way of knowing, which is the problem. If the fremen are told that the only way out is to follow paul, and for the most part it seems like it's true, they choose to follow him through all the massacres across the galaxy. But it's just as plausible that Paul's way IS the horror. Chani in Denis' version of the story is the dissenting voice of reason pushing back against the blind fanaticism of Paul's followers.
@@Musabre@Musabre, since Paul IS the only prescient of his ability, we must assume he is correct. The proof of this comes in the later books, where he relies on his prophecies to move through his physical environment. As I have said, Villeneuve is telling HIS story more than he is telling Herbert's.
@@LeeCarlson That's a fallacy. His ability to navigate his immediate future through his 'sight' doesn't prove without any shred of doubt that his ultimate vision for humanity is the correct or just one. Assuming he is correct essentially 'just because' is the exact thing poeple should NOT do. Ultimately we have no way of knowing if all of the nightmare future that comes about via his guidance HAD to happen at all. Im aware of the events of the later books, and it still doesn't solve the problem of Paul's possible fallibility.
Regarding your discussion @ 1:05:00 remember that in the first film when Paul successfully passes the Gom Jabbar test given by the Reverend Mother, she says to him: "You inherit too much power." "Because I'm a Duke's son?" Paul asks. "Because you are Jessica's son. You have more than one birthright boy" she replies. So yes, the Reverend Mother knew all the time and Dune Part One gave us a clue.
It’s Villeneuve’s fault that the Great Houses don’t seem smart. In the first novel, Paul’s threat to destroy all the spice on the planet was enough to get everyone to obey him. The director didn’t emphasize enough how crucial the spice is for humanity’s existence, not as much as Frank Herbert had stressed. Villeneuve mentioned that spice is required by the Navigators for space travel, but he never addressed the fact that spice, though greatly beneficial to one’s health, is also highly addictive. Withdrawal from it is fatal. The destruction of the spice supply would stop interstellar travel and strand people on various planets. It would also cause the deaths of millions (at the very least) who were addicted to it. They would die, literally, without a regular supply. In the book, the Great Houses (and the Spacing Guild) took Paul seriously and accepted him, because they knew the galaxy wide catastrophe he could unleash if they resisted. Another thing Villeneuve did that was different from the novel (and a weaker alternative) was the reason why Paul changed his mind and went all in on starting a holy war after wanting to avoid it throughout the movie. Villeneuve’s adaptation had Paul impulsively doing a 180 after the Great Houses reject him as Emperor. As I mentioned, his control of the spice was the only bargaining chip he ever needed to get his way. In the novel, Paul and Chani were a united couple. Villeneuve weakened their relationship and made you wonder why Paul would bother staying with her when she was often so distrustful and disagreeable with him. Since he became an important Fremen prophet and leader, he could have easily found a better, more supportive love interest. Anyway, in the book Paul and Chani were on the same wavelength and were raising their infant son (Paul’s rise among the Fremen took years, not months). Chani knew Paul’s marriage to Princess Irulan would be in name only and would help legitimize his claim to the throne. Their son was killed during a Sardaukar attack. It was that horrible loss and grief that changed Paul’s mind and gradually turned him cold, cold enough to allow the Fremen extremists their desired jihad, not because the Great Houses said nope to him as their new Emperor. The movie made Paul’s decision to bring war to thousands of planets in the Imperium a flippant one.
I do love both dune movies, but I agree, Villeneuve diverges from the books in ways I don't like, If chani is meant to represent the perspective of warning of false prophets and how dangerous a charismatic leader can be, how does she then have children with paul, she is very influential on paul, and how he thinks about his actions and the universe around him, so how does that relationship now manifest if she thinks him to be a false prophet tyrant. And as you said, the threat of losing access to spice is a literal existential crisis for all of humanity, Villeneuve seems to forget that.
10:50 About the Voice: It is important to understand that the Bene Gesserit have a branch called the Missionaria Protectiva. Their role is to manipulate religions to benefit the Bene Gesserit. It is almost certain that a Missionaria Protectiva agent traveled to Arrakis and manipulated Fremen religion. The most likely scenario is that the agentmanipulated the Fremen religion to include a new position in their faith: the Reverend Mother. To keep the Fremen from knowing about the Missionaria Protectiva, the agent likely trained the Fremen woman in Bene Gesserit techniques but did not share her memories with the Fremen during the Water of Life ceremony. The agent would have taught the Fremen Reverend Mother how to use the Voice. When it was time for the Reverend Mother to pass on her memories to a new Reverend Mother, it was likely the new Reverend Mother learned how to use the Voice from the memories of the previous Reverend Mother.
Worms are usually smaller and slower than that. It was implied that they had ways to shoot hooks from a distance with all sorts of riggings to climb. Which would also imply ways to get down again. The prophecies aren't real. Paul is intentionally acting them out because what's left of his family dies if he doesn't, and he would never get revenge on the Harkonnens and Emperor. He's backed into a corner. The story is a tragedy in the Greek style (the name Atreides is meant to invoke Atreus, the house of Agamemnon of The Iliad). Only some of the other houses resist Paul. It's a feudal society. Not very orderly. The Emperor is just the most powerful warlord among many, not a government per se. Paul takes that place by conquest, but ambitious people won't just accept that on tradition. They want to try him. But he does gain huge advantages with a lot of people with the marriage, which is why he did it. Why the "friends" of the Atreides didn't respond to the original massacre: Political friends mostly aren't real friends, and real friends still have to protect themselves and their own families. They didn't want to be next on the list. And you're correct, Muad'Dib would have seemed weird, and deviated from the Duke Leto who had inspired their friendship. They wouldn't want to reward a local population taking monopoly control of the most crucial commodity in the universe, even if it pained them to be against the son of someone they liked.
So a thing to add: House Harkonnen had only gained control over Arrakis a mere half century prior to the events of the book. In the span of fifty years they amassed enough wealth to become a Great House. This is why their military is so trash. They have the wealth to hire and transport vast amounts of troops, something no other House can afford to do, which is why most other Houses tend to go for the quality route instead of the quantity one. Also, Sandworms don't mate. Yeah, you heard me right. Actually, Sandworms are basically the equivalent of jellyfish, ie. they are giant colonies of microorganisms called sandtrout. Final thing! I promise. The Kwisach Haderach can *only* be a man. It can't be a woman. Its not that the reverend mother didnt want it at all, its just that she wanted that power to be under Bene Genesserit control.
our white sun emits the full color spectrum of light, so a black sun would absorb the color spectrum-which is why they filmed the fight scene of Geidi Prime with infrared cameras
The kwizats haderach is specifically a male reverend mother with the ability to see down the memories of both male and female lines. The problem is every male that tried to go through the spice agony died. And with Jessica, her mother was more than likely a sister. The BG has the family records of every sister. They just don’t tell them in case they want to have a sister be paired with a relative to set up a dominance in a genetic trait
The reason the great houses don't acknowledge Paul is because he used atomics which is a big no no in this universe. There is something called the Great Convention that takes atomics completely off limits.
I wish we got to see both the Fenrings in this movie. Or even a scene with lady Margot and the Baron since she is supposed to be the emperor’s closest friend, and she was sent to get the details about the attack, and seduce Feyd for the BG. In the book, the count and lady Fenring helps each other on their own missions for the emperor and BG respectively. The funny thing is that the count was a potential KH, but he was a genetic eunuch. Something that most people outside of the BG are aware of. And while the count and his wife are with the Baron, Feyd tries to charm Margot, only for the Baron to try and make Feyd stop since he was worried count Fenring would kill him on the spot. Meanwhile Margot’s mission was to get impregnated by Feyd to preserve the blood line.
This is because Parts 1 and 2 ARE part of the same book. Villeneuve split the original novel at the break that Frank Herbert put in the novel. I still don't know how Villeneuve plans to continue this for Dune Messiah.
From all I've seen on this so far, assuming the quotes are accurate, Denis is treating the third movie as its own thing and not trying specifically to make the movies a 'trilogy' like most franchises, which bodes well for adapting Messiah for sure. It needs to stand alone and not just be a 'part 3' in my opinion.
@@Musabre, considering that Dune Messiah was the second book, his work is not a trilogy but a series of movies. I am also looking forward to seeing where he goes from here, other than completely distorting Herbert's story.
There's a Dune tabletop game. And in that game, people back stab each other's ALL the time. It's only natural for big houses ignoring Paul. Just like how real players will react.
I've always been an atheists my whole life, the worm riding scene was the closest thing to rapture I've felt. This movie Is so good it's scary how easy it is to fall to the propaganda of a charismatic leader, Ironic as it is currently in our society.
I love how in the Fremen culture the worms are described in male terms, and the sandstorms as female. They're the two main factors that influence Fremen life so it makes sense
In the first part, the worm also stopped in front of Paul. So it shouldn't be a problem to climb up. The other houses do not accept Paul Atreides as emperor because he threatens their power structures and the stable status quo. Paul embodies a new, unpredictable force that seems alien and dangerous to the aristocratic and political elites of Landsraad. In the end, they accepted his claim to the title of emperor because they had no choice.
Lol the ending makes me laugh in react vids, like, what more did you expect them to show? It's all spelled out at the end there. Anything more would need hours of coverage, (or a third movie...... ;) ;) ;) ) . Such a great ending shot with chani , the music, and the desert.
Villeneuve changed much from the book because he is trying to tell this story visually with little dialogue. The book is dialogue heavy and you miss so much from the story. You don't see anything about the Spice guild or the Spacing guild or the politics going on behind the scenes. The Harkonnen are the bad guys but Villeneuve choose to make them more of a typical movie villain. It works but to someone who knows the book and the story it is a bit sad to see the important things skipped over. This is much like how the Lord of the Rings movies hit book nerds. In the end Villeneuve has the same issue that Herbert had in the books. Paul is not a hero and the Fremen are the demons of the galaxy. That is why Herbert came out with the other books and why they need a 3rd and or 4th movie to tell the story completely. The end of this movie is very bleak. The galaxy is about to burn and billions will die all under the name Paul Atreides.
“Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives.”
You 2 caught most important points, and asked good questions... The answers are in the book, which you really should read! Some very good audiobook readings you can hear here on YT.
So if you remember how they sent a bene gesserit to study feyd rautha, she came back pregnant. This was most likely how Jessica came to be. They make these female babies strategically and they become bene gesserit as well.
Imagine how things would had turned out if the Bene Gesserit didn’t try so hard to manipulate everything and everyone. Their plans ends up backfiring so badly in their face. They didn’t account that Jessica would defy them by giving birth to a boy instead of having a girl. Oops lol.
Great reaction. What most people seem to forget is that Jessica was never married to Paul's father. Buit they were a loving couple. In the book. The end is different. Chani knows the deal. She will be Paul's mate. The Princess will just have the title of wife. Denis just tacked on this ending for a little "cliff hanger" vibes. Again, Chani in the movie played a bigger role than the book. She represented the doubts some of the Fremen had about Paul. I think it was a great improvement. The book was written 60 years ago. Times have changed. Especially for Females. Chani was way more modern. Thanks again for the reaction.
The family atomics were so that the imperium would have a defense against non-human enemies. And is an absolute no to use them on another great house. In fact a great family used their family atomics on selusa secudus, turning it to a hell world, and the seat of the imperium moved to the planet kaitain, and that family’s name and bloodline was wiped and black listed
The books are way more detailed than the movies. Paul's mother was supposed to have a girl to breed with tge Byron's nephew. That child was supposed to be the kwisatz haderach. Paul is an incomplete kwisatz.
@@jeromym5124, I wish they had included many things (the Mentats and the background of the Sardukat among them); however, that was not the story Villeneuve wanted to tell.
@@jeromym5124It's sadly impossible. Even if they got an older actor to dub her voice, no small child can move like an adult. Age her up or down for the screen...
A fremen will gladly give their lives to take out a bunch of enemies. And terraforming is gonna cause a lot of problems for the worms, but it is the will of the tyrant
31:26 If you listen closely, you can hear both Feyd and Lady Fenring using the Voice to one-up the other (Feyd to command. Fenring to seduce.) He never stood a chance.
How would Feyd know how to use the voice? It’s a technique the BG keeps hidden like their other techniques. Personally I wish the bits with Feyd, the Fenrings, and Feyd’s failed assassination attempt played out like the book. And apparently Thufir’s scenes would’ve played out like in the book
@ I’d like to imagine it’s largely an attempted mimicry rather than the actual voice. Since the Baron is in so tight with the Reverend Mother, the Harkonenns would absolutely try to duplicate that same level of influence. If you sound like you have the same power as the BG, folks are probably gonna listen to you.
@ the Baron isn’t exactly tight with the reverend mother. He hates the witches. Look at what he did to Dr. Yueh’s wife. She was also bene gesserit. The only importance the Baron has to her is that she is Jessica’s father. Other than that, she went to the Baron to relay that the emperor would provide troops from his sardukar.
@ In my head cannon, he would try to sound more powerful than he actually was. And it’s fun to think that Feyd had actually mastered some of the Voice third-hand. That would just up his threat level that much higher.
Dune is a cautionary tale of hero worship, of the cult of power, of placing individuals on pedestals and of those individuals believing it, Paul is not a hero, not even of his own story, as he himself would be the first to admit. indeed his entire journey is him trying to avoid his destiny (or rather the inevitable tides of society breaking free from stagnation with revolution), but eventually and reluctantly accepting it. They changed some stuff for the film (jessica, chani mostly) and lost a lot of nuance because of it, but perhaps that was inevitable in trying to make it only 3hours long :) I think they did an excellent job with these films, but really, this is perhaps the biggest case of you really need to read the book to really understand it. also Paul is NOT the bene gesserit messiah, that was supposed to be produced by jessica's daughter, but she had paul and he is something new, something different, something the bene gesserit cant control. effectively he is the narrative personification of a society striving for evolution.
Chani in the books was in love with Paul and totally devoted to his ascension to power. Chani and Jessica work together in the background for a common goal - getting Paul in leadership of the Fremen. Having her be so off program with a man she professes to love is freaking bizarre.
Sadly, we live in Girl Power world now. Changes were made to appease. So much was done wrong. The Great Houses not acknowledging Paul’s betrothal to Irulan and his ascension, the Baron being able to send an instantaneous message to the Great Houses, and of course movie Chani’s utter estrangement from book Chani
The central thesis of the Dune series can be summarized by: "do not trust charismatic leaders and do not centralize power." Frank Herbert found that too many people did not pick up on that point and wrote Dune Messiah to be more transparent in that messaging. In the film, Chani's opposition to Paul's ascendancy serves Herbert's central point and is introduced earlier so as to make that tonal shift less jarring. If Paul did not face resistance from someone in his inner circle in the film, most film goers would interpret his story as a Hero's Journey which it absolutely is not. If you don't like the narrative structure of introducing resistance so early, that's fine, but dismissing it as a "Girl Bossing" is a misread.
The thing that probably bothers me the most in this film, (both actually,) is that Jessica was the Duke's concubine, not wife--He had not taken a wife. So when we get to the end we understand that Paul could have Chani as a concubine in the way his mother was and also have a strategic marriage to the princess. I just think that could have been driven home more for the average viewer. The prophecy is constructed, so all the characters have to do is fulfill their roles in the prophecy.
Thing about it being long it needed to be longer they left out a lot of the world building they are doing two books in three films. To tell it right it needs to be two books in five movies.
In the books, the idea that Jessica was Leto's concubine and not his wife is more strongly emphasized. This is a world where marriage is about strategic alliances and is accepted as such. Jessica and Chani also have a telling discussion in which Jessica reminds Chani that even though neither of them were married, history will call them "wives."
Unfortunately they destroyed Chani in this adaptation. Good thing she has almost no presence in Messiah because her character is fanfiction lvl bad here.
Yeah I feel like both movies mention it.... but if you didn't already know that, it'd be easy to miss. Dune Part 1 has Leto saying "I should've married you" to Jessica. Dune Part 2 has Jessica saying to Paul that her sister reminds him to save his hand for a strategic alliance.... overall it could've been made slightly more obvious I think. Mass movie audiences are pretty dumb unfortunately.... you kind of have to spoon feed them things for them to understand.
@@KS-xk2soand that is one of the fulcrums on which Dune Messiah is built.
This movie in imax was an out of body experience. Audio-visual masterpiece.
It really really is. I watched it twice in IMAX
Honestly so true, watching Dune Pt. 2 in IMAX is the closest thing to a "religious experience" that I've seen in a movie theater.
"How do you get off?" This is explained in the book, and in at least one RUclips video (posted by Giant Freakin Robot). The basic notion is that being forced to travel on the surface and carry riders is very exhausting for a worm, and eventually it slows down. When it's moving slowly enough everyone jumps off -- with the person controlling the worm last to jump -- and the worm then sinks down into the sand to sulk and recover. After that another thumper is planted to call another worm and the cycle continues until the journey is complete. The Fremen actually measure long distances in "thumpers" which is the count of how many worms have to be captured and ridden to exhaustion to travel all the way to a destination.
In the book Chani expected Paul to marry for political advantage. In the throne room scene, both Paul and Jessica told Chani that he would never love or touch the Princess. It was just business. In fact Chani was pretty much treated as Empress in everything but name.
Especially because she was the future Emperor's mother.
Regarding that line of "there are no sides" From the Bene Gesserit point of view, they play all the angles so if you are on all sides, there are no sides, just different plans of "yours"
Exactly. Thats why she makes the point at the end to call her "Reverend Mother" as in... yes I lost, but you, a Bene Gesserit, are still key, so the order continues.
The reason the Laansrad (the other family houses) did not accept his ascendency to the throne was because they saw this as an opportunity to ascend the throne themselves, they still didn't understand the power and capability of the fremen and assumed that they were just stranded on the planet and they could just take over arrakis themselves. There's another reason but it might be a spoiler for part 3.
I thought in the in the book the guild told everyone to go home (or lose the ability to return home) because Paul had the ability to permanently destroy the spice and the makers. All the battle of the Jihad happens on the resisting landsraad planets because the guild would only transport Paul’s forces
@Niven110 yes it does happen. Because Paul has the ability to kill all worms and that would leave the spice guild without the means to travel and bend space. I was talking about the families in my first comment.
She stayed as a rear guard spy-She took Paul’s place, as he wanted to stay to avoid going South.
She made it possible for Paul to leave. Which Paul did not want to do, but in the end felt he had to do.
Feyd defeating an Atreides veteran warrior, without a shield, is incredibly impressive. The Atreides legions were considered the greatest fighters in the galaxy, aside from the Fremen unbeknownst to them at the time.
That's also Landville. He was in the first part when Stilgar came to visit Leto. He's the one that says "Hey stop right there!" and also he's the one who orders "Shields" when they land on Arrakis before opening the doors.
And aside from the Sardaukar, the Emperor's personal army, which was considered the most formidable until the Atreides legions started rivaling them.
The Kwisatz Haderach was expected from the crossing of the Atreides and Harkonnen bloodlines. Jessica was supposed to have a girl who would be mated with Feyd-Rautha; however, Leto wanted a son, and Jessica chose not to deny him. Surprise!
Oh wow thanks for the info, I don’t think they say this in the movies right?
@@gualacheesesteak In Part 1, as she is walking back to her ship after testing Paul, Reverend Mother Mohiam says to Jessica "You were told to bear only daughters! But you, in your pride, thought you could produce the Kwisatz Hederach." So at least that part is explained.
Reverend Mothers _are_ Bene Gesserit, so they know the Voice. That's how Stilgar recognized her skills at the end of the first movie, calling her a 'weirding woman'. So the culture is a fascinating mix of ancient philosophy/propaganda (depending who you ask) and modern 'secular' resistance to the Harkonnen oppression.
Remember, the bene gesserit aren’t the only ones that can create the Reverend mothers. It’s hinted in the lore that the Fremen already had the equivalents of Reverend Mothers but the Bene Gesserit still infiltrated and manipulated their religion and culture
The hooks pry up the sandworm's outer scales and expose the tender undersides to the abrasive effects of the sand. As a result, the worm turns its body to keep sand out from under the plates, and that is how a Fremen controls the worm's progress and keeps it from diving deeper under the sand.
This is absolutely one of my top favorite movie series... Watching you guys react is like watching a great movie with good friends... TY
1:06 and the emperor said: it needs more cowbells
Having read the book and seen the older movie I went into this one blind as to the cast I didn't want to know anything . So I was seriously freaked when I saw that it was Christopher Walken playing the emperor.
You see several years ago he starred in the music video by Fatboy slim called weapons of choice. In it there are several references to Dune. Such as walk without rhythm or you'll attract a worm.
Great reaction I love the book and movie and you did it proud.
The emperor was told that the Atridies were popular with the other houses. It was the bene gessart who wanted them wiped out because they were hard to control. So they put the idea in the emperors head of Atridies popularity. Knowing this woukd trigger his jealousy and wipe them out.
This was only in the movie adaptation. In the book, the Bene Gesserit were not part of the Emperor’s conspiracy to destroy House Atreides. They were aware of what was coming, but they were not active participants.
Also, the Atriedes were the only House in the Empire that could field warriors that were a match for the Emperor's Sardukar legions. That, plus their popularity, made them a threat to overtake the Emperor. On the opposite side, the Harkonen's were becoming absurdly wealthy due to control of Arrakis, and therefore Spice, so their wealth alone was also threatening the Emperors power. By having them war like this, he weakens both significantly.
@@KS-xk2sothat’s also why Leto wanted the fremen to join. Fremen fighters that had Duncan Idaho on the ropes. And let’s not forget the fremen sent the sardukar running
@@SunsetRoguethere’s also the spacing guild wanting Paul dead. Though the irony of the matter was that Mohiam said Jessica and Paul were under their protection, though I would think Mohiam was trying to keep the guild’s involvement hidden
The Freman's Reverend Mother belonged to the Lost Bene Gesserits whose existence became known again only to the Sisterhood during the Harkonnen occupation of Dune. Lady Fenring when she was based on Dune made contact with Ramallo, hence how the Mohiam and Sisterhood could keep tabs on Dune. Mohiam and Ramallo were friends before Ramallo disappeared. While in both Dune adaptations, the Baron is revealed to be Paul's grandpa, what is not mentioned is the grandma---Reverend Mohiam.
The grandma thing isn't canon, the books after the first 6 don't count.
Without the Bene Gesserit having come to Arrakis in the first place, there would never have been a prophecy.
Who knows, the Fremen had limited prescience ability (centuries to millennia of exposure to spice) and their equivalent to reverend mothers (Syedina/wild reverend mothers) even before the Bene Gesserit infiltrated their culture. They may have foreseen some basic vision of Paul’s coming.
Best movie of 2024. Best theater experience anyone has ever had in decades. The chairs shook when the worms were on screen and the entire audience is silent when the credits role. This is Empire Strikes Back and The Two Towers of our era.
damn this movie is 2024? I almost thought is 2023.
This and The Wild Robot need to sweep the Oscars
@The_Caracal You need to calm down.
@@darrel7589 You need to calm up.
Geidi Prime orbits a "dark star" whose light cannot carry color. Thus you get black, white and shades of grey. You'll notice there are colors from indoor lighting.
It one of the additions that wasn’t in the books that I love
If you remember in the first movie, the Bene Gesserit woman that made him do the whole box thing.... she told him he inherited a lot of power. He said "because I'm a duke's son?" and she said "No. Because you are Jessica's son." She was telling him that not only would he inherit the Atreides from his father....but also the Harkonnen from his mother.
Great reaction and discussion, thank you!
Remember that the Bene Gesserit are moving in the shadows, their breeding program is done secretly. Jessica was assigned to be with Duke Leto by the Reverend Mother Mohiam. What is hinted is that Lady Jessica's teacher was her mother and also part of the secret breeding program. The goal of the Bene Gesserit is to create the Kwisatz Haderach but maintain control of him, to train him to keep their power. However, the Kwisatz Haderach is going to be too powerful to control.
As the end happens, Paul becomes the most powerful being in the Universe, fully aware of the future, what is happening and what is going to happen as well as the scion of House Atreides and now Harkonnen. The remaining houses of the Landsraad all see him as too powerful now and all see an opportunity to take control of spice. But also Paul has shortcomings too. He can see the future but the Bene Gesserit have ways to cloud the future as they plot to manipulate him or eliminate him.
The Dune prequel series Dune: Prophecy starts in 2 weeks on HBO. (Nov 17th). It's set 10,000 years before these movies and tells the story of The Bene Geserit order. Will you guys consider reacting to it when it premiers?😊
Gonna be so dog shit in comparison, no Denis = no real passion
Wow thanks for the info ! Will definitely be tuning in 🔥
Once Paul cracked the shield wall around Arrakeen, the worms were able to enter and create all of the havoc needed.
Thanks for all the support guys!
Like & Subscribe to catch some of your favorite shows and movies with us!
Check out our Dune: Part 1 Reaction - ruclips.net/video/6WzLLa-iSDM/видео.html
Link to our Instagram - instagram.com/macreact
I’m happy to see you guys are back on the regular, and I hope all is well with you! I’m like you as far as Dune movies go. New, but now a big fan!
In the books, Paul Maud'dib's rise takes years-long enough for Paul and Chani to marry and have a child. Jessica gives birth to Alia, who is a toddler when the Emperor comes to Arakkis.
3yo Alia would have been literally impossible to cast. No toddler actor moves like an adult. I like the age-her-down solution.
47:20 The Baron wasn't lying at that moment - the Emperor did (illegally, I might add) attack Arrakis with his Sardaukar forces. He was not supposed to destroy the power balance in that way, it was understood that Arrakis would be ruled in his stead by one of the Great Houses of the Landsraad at all times, thereby splitting control of Spice production between the Emperor and the Great Houses.
And that is part of the failure of the Faufreluches political system; it is all about balance and harmony where eveything and everyone is in their place. The moment something or someone puts the system out of balance, it can threaten to topple the entire system. In this case, the Atreides was getting more influence politically due to Leto's charisma, and their power was increasing due to the army being within a hair of being as good as the Sarudaukar. It needed to be delt with quickly and quietly asit was undermining House Corrino's power and influence.
The Landsraat, the united political group of the Great Houses, are used to being the ones to decide who the emperor is. Paul popping up out of nowhere claiming the throne
would be rejected off hand. However, with Paul and the Fremen willing to fight to keep the throne, the Great Houses are gonna fall in line pretty quicklike. Don't forget, spice
is needed for space travel. Paul controls all spice so his army can travel at will to anywhere, but the Houses are stuck on their home worlds, without the aid of the other houses.
The Bene Gesserit knew the kwizatz Haderach was to be a male, that is why they commanded all their acolytes used for breeding to have daughters. The Bene Gesserit would
go to each Great House and obtain "a sample" as needed, during the whole process of genetic engineering. The combination of Harkonnen and Atreides families was to be the
last step in birthing the Kwizatz Haderach. Jessica having a male child threw off hundreds of years of planning by one generation.
Just to add, Paul took the throne via a military coup using an armed force of Fremen who are generally viewed as native savages by the Landsraad. If Paul had gone to the Landsraad and pled his case they very well could have united with him against the Emperor but he chose a very different path that bypassed any semblance of government.
@@obelisk21 You brought up an interesting alternative course of action Paul could have taken. That path would probably end up with the Emperor dethroned and exiled or dead for his crime. But it could also happen that the Landsraad would then choose someone else, not Paul, to be the new Emperor. The fanatics among the Fremen wouldn’t get their holy war.
@@obelisk21 then again, with Paul's ability to see future paths, maybe he already saw that path either wouldn't work at all or would be even worse than the path chosen. OR, leaning into Paul actually being the bad guy, that path simply wasn't as efficient or quick.
Love that you guys do the films justice in terms of reaction length. I legit saw a Dune reaction that was 30 minutes total including intro/discussion... crazy
In the books Paul's holy war leads to ~60 billion dead in just 12 years. His reign is the bloodiest in all of history, so far.
Why did you feel the need to post spoilers? You should delete your comment. Now.
My 2 favorite people just made my Tuesday a whole lot better ❤❤❤
Incredible movie. I have read the book and liked the first part, but this second one is much better. Absolutely masterpiece.
15:53 Dune parts 1 and 2 were shown in different types of Imax theaters. The best ones were the the theaters with either 70mm or GT Laser projectors and 1.43.1 aspect ratio screens.
I bought tickets for Dune part 2 for Austin, TX and drove there from Wyoming (about 1000 miles). However, I was delayed and missed the show. So I then drove to Branson, Missouri (another 600 miles) to see it in a GT Laser/1.43:1 theater.
It was definitely worth it. And the explosion on this scene was absolutely amazing with the sound system.
What you saw, the Harkonen target the Fremen ambushed in the desert, was a Spice Harvester-Anytime you find outworlders in Arrakis’ desert 🏜️, it’s for Spice Harvesting, smuggling Spice, or in the case of the Harkonens, hunting the Fremen as well.
The Bene Gesserit at the end who says there are no sides, was pointing out very accurately that that Paul's side had a Bene Gesserit advisor just the same. They don't lose because they have a representative on every side so regardless of how it plays out their order continues to be advisors and manipulators to those in power.
Dune Part Two! On Mac Reacts! How have I not hopped onto your Dune Part One reaction with this one actor from Moon Knight! It's so awesomely intense and remote! Can't' wait to get the six books and dive in! What a stellar cast! I gotta hop onto a set of reactions of yours I've spontaneously been bingeing on! BRB when I see Dune Part Two stream somewhere!
The amount of times I have watched this.. lol. So happy to see this upload.
56:18 she’s saying that all of this conflict was being orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit in a way that they never really “lose”, it’s just part of their plans that have been panning out over millennia
Jessica didn't say she was pregnant because her destiny was to either die or become Reverend Mother. Either way, the child 'dies' so it's a moot point. By going through with it the fetus became 'awakened' just like Jessica, thus opening her eyes and communicating like a full-grown adult
For reference... the old Bene Gesserit lady that tested Paul... is his Grandmother. As Lady Fenring was tasked wih preserving a bloodline, so was the Emperor's truthsayer tasked in her youth. Yes she is Jessica's mother. 🤔😮
That’s according to Frank Herbert’s son, Brian. I read somewhere that Frank stated that Jessica’s mother was an unknown Bene Gesserit named Tanidia Nerus. He never intended her to be Mohiam.
It doesn’t even work from a logical perspective to be considered canon. After drinking the Water Of Life, both Paul and Jessica easily saw their genetic past. Through Other Memory, they would know who was Jessica’s mother. The fact they never acknowledged this revelation about Mohiam the way they did for the Baron in the novel means that Mohiam was not their ancestor. If Frank wanted this family link, he would have mentioned it somewhere in his book series. He never did and Brian disregarded what his father established.
@@SunsetRogue that's your interpretation, according to the estate, they were notes to the effect Mohiam was the mother, Tanidia Nerus just an alias, to further disguise the origin. As expected of the Bene Gesserit...
Ooo those pesky Bene Gesserit!! 😆
@@SunsetRogue some valid points 👍
@@Hoopyfrood345 Thank you.
The reason this didn’t feel like a “sequal” is because it isn’t. It’s part 2.
The first movie covers roughly the 1st half of the first book. This movie is the 2nd of the same book.
Regarding the other houses, it’s never really covered in the movies but briefly mentioned. There is a congress of sorts, The Landsrad, that is made up of the other houses. Their purpose is to act as a sort of check to the emperors power.
Jessica never knew she was the daughter of the Baron because she was taken by the Bene Gesserit at an extremely young age. Also , I don’t think it’s ever said outright but it’s strongly hinted that Giaus Helen Mohiam (sp?) is her mother.
The reason the Bene Gesserit were upset with Jessica for her having a son, is because she was instructed to have a daughter that could then be paired with Fayd Rautha and hopefully produce the Kwizatz Haderach. But Jessica loved the Duke and gave him the son he wanted. The Bene Gesserit want to manage his arrival so they can control him and rule.
The whole “prophecy” thing seems to line up because it was indeed a superstition planted by an arm of the Bene Gesserit known as the Missionaria Protectiva (sp?). It is a tool used by the order to manage populations and to help any sister who may become stranded or separated. They have done this on hundreds of worlds.
The reason that they were shocked to find out Jessica was pregnant is because drinking the water of life while pregnant is huge no no. It has the same effect on the fetus as the mother. So in effect the fetus absorbs the personalities and powers of all the previous reverend mothers before ever developing a personality or moral compass of their own. Very dangerous. It’s called abomination and is expressly forbidden.
46:30, the Kwitzach Haderach was always meant to be a man. But the Bene Gesserit planned to control him. But Paul being an Atreides he is too strong willed and can’t be controlled.
Realize that being the Fremen Reverand Mother makes Jessica the equivalent of the woman who tested Paul with the gom-jabar. The agents of the Bene Gesserit among the Fremen appear to have taught their techniques to the Fremen women.
Excellent reaction! This is how it's supposed to be done. Let the film breathe, let the plot's emotions hit you, and drop banger comments periodically to let the viewer know you get what's going on, and are feeling it! Bravo! New subscriber!
This film is so well done and so beautiful, I love the contrast and in a way the death of Paul and the birth of the Kwisatz Haderach, I Think Timothée performed the duality so well how as Paul he doubted he questioned but then after drinking the water of life he was sure of himself he knew what had to be done
"What gonna happen to the baby" well the sequels are great. Lets just say that
12:04 Ok, I'm going to try to explain this while avoiding spoilers...
The Water of Life gave Alia the same awareness as an adult has. It also gave her all the memories Jessica has, and the memories that the Reverend Mother passed on to Jessica.
So Alia is a fully conscious person inside Jessica's womb.
Alia also has all the abilities of a full Reverend Mother.
One of the things that pissed off fans of the novel was that Dune part 2 did not use motion capture to give us the 3-year old Alia with an adult's brain telling adult jokes that the novel gave us.
The Baron didn’t know Jessica is his daughter. When he was young he allowed himself to be seduced by a Bene Gesserit. I say allowed because Baron Harkonnen preferred teenage boys in the novel. That Bene Gesserit secretly got impregnated to secure his genetic bloodline for their breeding program, just as Lady Fenring had done with Feyd-Rautha in this movie.
Fiiinaalllyyyyy 🎉🎉
Saw this in IMAX opening weekend and it was one of the best movie experiences of my life.
32:43 Fun fact, the second kiss was improvised by Austin Butler.
Just because Paul does not see himself as the prophesied messiah does not mean that he is not the one who will deliver the Fremen from their "bondage."
It's just a shame that in order for that to happen they have to become the unwitting pawns in Paul's (questionable) ambitions.
@@Musabre, Paul's only ambition was to get revenge for the deaths of his entire family. However, his becoming the Kwisatz Haderach showed him that following this path was the only way to prevent more horrors.
@@LeeCarlson The mistake here is to assume everything Paul sees/knows IS the only way forward. His "becoming the Kwisatz Haderach showed him that following this path was the only way to prevent more horrors", to quote you, is only true if you accept Paul's word as gospel. Part of the danger and the warning of Dune is accepting what charismatic leaders say and blindly following them. For all WE know, Paul was wrong, and the horrors that he perpetrated were a result of his decisions, not inevitable.
There's no real way of knowing, which is the problem. If the fremen are told that the only way out is to follow paul, and for the most part it seems like it's true, they choose to follow him through all the massacres across the galaxy. But it's just as plausible that Paul's way IS the horror.
Chani in Denis' version of the story is the dissenting voice of reason pushing back against the blind fanaticism of Paul's followers.
@@Musabre@Musabre, since Paul IS the only prescient of his ability, we must assume he is correct. The proof of this comes in the later books, where he relies on his prophecies to move through his physical environment. As I have said, Villeneuve is telling HIS story more than he is telling Herbert's.
@@LeeCarlson That's a fallacy. His ability to navigate his immediate future through his 'sight' doesn't prove without any shred of doubt that his ultimate vision for humanity is the correct or just one.
Assuming he is correct essentially 'just because' is the exact thing poeple should NOT do. Ultimately we have no way of knowing if all of the nightmare future that comes about via his guidance HAD to happen at all.
Im aware of the events of the later books, and it still doesn't solve the problem of Paul's possible fallibility.
I just want Dune 3 to open similar way - with black screen, Harkonnen voice saying some crazy shit 🤣
Regarding your discussion @ 1:05:00 remember that in the first film when Paul successfully passes the Gom Jabbar test given by the Reverend Mother, she says to him:
"You inherit too much power."
"Because I'm a Duke's son?" Paul asks.
"Because you are Jessica's son. You have more than one birthright boy" she replies.
So yes, the Reverend Mother knew all the time and Dune Part One gave us a clue.
It’s Villeneuve’s fault that the Great Houses don’t seem smart. In the first novel, Paul’s threat to destroy all the spice on the planet was enough to get everyone to obey him. The director didn’t emphasize enough how crucial the spice is for humanity’s existence, not as much as Frank Herbert had stressed.
Villeneuve mentioned that spice is required by the Navigators for space travel, but he never addressed the fact that spice, though greatly beneficial to one’s health, is also highly addictive. Withdrawal from it is fatal. The destruction of the spice supply would stop interstellar travel and strand people on various planets. It would also cause the deaths of millions (at the very least) who were addicted to it. They would die, literally, without a regular supply. In the book, the Great Houses (and the Spacing Guild) took Paul seriously and accepted him, because they knew the galaxy wide catastrophe he could unleash if they resisted.
Another thing Villeneuve did that was different from the novel (and a weaker alternative) was the reason why Paul changed his mind and went all in on starting a holy war after wanting to avoid it throughout the movie. Villeneuve’s adaptation had Paul impulsively doing a 180 after the Great Houses reject him as Emperor. As I mentioned, his control of the spice was the only bargaining chip he ever needed to get his way.
In the novel, Paul and Chani were a united couple. Villeneuve weakened their relationship and made you wonder why Paul would bother staying with her when she was often so distrustful and disagreeable with him. Since he became an important Fremen prophet and leader, he could have easily found a better, more supportive love interest. Anyway, in the book Paul and Chani were on the same wavelength and were raising their infant son (Paul’s rise among the Fremen took years, not months). Chani knew Paul’s marriage to Princess Irulan would be in name only and would help legitimize his claim to the throne.
Their son was killed during a Sardaukar attack. It was that horrible loss and grief that changed Paul’s mind and gradually turned him cold, cold enough to allow the Fremen extremists their desired jihad, not because the Great Houses said nope to him as their new Emperor. The movie made Paul’s decision to bring war to thousands of planets in the Imperium a flippant one.
I do love both dune movies, but I agree, Villeneuve diverges from the books in ways I don't like, If chani is meant to represent the perspective of warning of false prophets and how dangerous a charismatic leader can be, how does she then have children with paul, she is very influential on paul, and how he thinks about his actions and the universe around him, so how does that relationship now manifest if she thinks him to be a false prophet tyrant. And as you said, the threat of losing access to spice is a literal existential crisis for all of humanity, Villeneuve seems to forget that.
10:50 About the Voice: It is important to understand that the Bene Gesserit have a branch called the Missionaria Protectiva. Their role is to manipulate religions to benefit the Bene Gesserit.
It is almost certain that a Missionaria Protectiva agent traveled to Arrakis and manipulated Fremen religion. The most likely scenario is that the agentmanipulated the Fremen religion to include a new position in their faith: the Reverend Mother.
To keep the Fremen from knowing about the Missionaria Protectiva, the agent likely trained the Fremen woman in Bene Gesserit techniques but did not share her memories with the Fremen during the Water of Life ceremony. The agent would have taught the Fremen Reverend Mother how to use the Voice.
When it was time for the Reverend Mother to pass on her memories to a new Reverend Mother, it was likely the new Reverend Mother learned how to use the Voice from the memories of the previous Reverend Mother.
Sorry, greatest scifi ever made, not sorry.
He's talking to his Sister
Worms are usually smaller and slower than that. It was implied that they had ways to shoot hooks from a distance with all sorts of riggings to climb. Which would also imply ways to get down again.
The prophecies aren't real. Paul is intentionally acting them out because what's left of his family dies if he doesn't, and he would never get revenge on the Harkonnens and Emperor. He's backed into a corner. The story is a tragedy in the Greek style (the name Atreides is meant to invoke Atreus, the house of Agamemnon of The Iliad).
Only some of the other houses resist Paul. It's a feudal society. Not very orderly. The Emperor is just the most powerful warlord among many, not a government per se. Paul takes that place by conquest, but ambitious people won't just accept that on tradition. They want to try him. But he does gain huge advantages with a lot of people with the marriage, which is why he did it.
Why the "friends" of the Atreides didn't respond to the original massacre: Political friends mostly aren't real friends, and real friends still have to protect themselves and their own families. They didn't want to be next on the list. And you're correct, Muad'Dib would have seemed weird, and deviated from the Duke Leto who had inspired their friendship. They wouldn't want to reward a local population taking monopoly control of the most crucial commodity in the universe, even if it pained them to be against the son of someone they liked.
So a thing to add: House Harkonnen had only gained control over Arrakis a mere half century prior to the events of the book. In the span of fifty years they amassed enough wealth to become a Great House. This is why their military is so trash. They have the wealth to hire and transport vast amounts of troops, something no other House can afford to do, which is why most other Houses tend to go for the quality route instead of the quantity one.
Also, Sandworms don't mate. Yeah, you heard me right. Actually, Sandworms are basically the equivalent of jellyfish, ie. they are giant colonies of microorganisms called sandtrout.
Final thing! I promise. The Kwisach Haderach can *only* be a man. It can't be a woman. Its not that the reverend mother didnt want it at all, its just that she wanted that power to be under Bene Genesserit control.
our white sun emits the full color spectrum of light, so a black sun would absorb the color spectrum-which is why they filmed the fight scene of Geidi Prime with infrared cameras
The kwizats haderach is specifically a male reverend mother with the ability to see down the memories of both male and female lines. The problem is every male that tried to go through the spice agony died.
And with Jessica, her mother was more than likely a sister. The BG has the family records of every sister. They just don’t tell them in case they want to have a sister be paired with a relative to set up a dominance in a genetic trait
The reason the great houses don't acknowledge Paul is because he used atomics which is a big no no in this universe. There is something called the Great Convention that takes atomics completely off limits.
I wish we got to see both the Fenrings in this movie. Or even a scene with lady Margot and the Baron since she is supposed to be the emperor’s closest friend, and she was sent to get the details about the attack, and seduce Feyd for the BG.
In the book, the count and lady Fenring helps each other on their own missions for the emperor and BG respectively. The funny thing is that the count was a potential KH, but he was a genetic eunuch. Something that most people outside of the BG are aware of. And while the count and his wife are with the Baron, Feyd tries to charm Margot, only for the Baron to try and make Feyd stop since he was worried count Fenring would kill him on the spot. Meanwhile Margot’s mission was to get impregnated by Feyd to preserve the blood line.
This is because Parts 1 and 2 ARE part of the same book. Villeneuve split the original novel at the break that Frank Herbert put in the novel. I still don't know how Villeneuve plans to continue this for Dune Messiah.
From all I've seen on this so far, assuming the quotes are accurate, Denis is treating the third movie as its own thing and not trying specifically to make the movies a 'trilogy' like most franchises, which bodes well for adapting Messiah for sure. It needs to stand alone and not just be a 'part 3' in my opinion.
@@Musabre, considering that Dune Messiah was the second book, his work is not a trilogy but a series of movies. I am also looking forward to seeing where he goes from here, other than completely distorting Herbert's story.
The other houses aren't allowed to not accept Paul. They choose rebellion by not accepting his hostile takeover from House Correno
Spice is an environmental fact of Arrakis, so every Fremen has a systemic addiction to the stuff, which is where they get their blue eyes.
Water is a deadly poison to the worms of Arrakis.
There's a Dune tabletop game. And in that game, people back stab each other's ALL the time.
It's only natural for big houses ignoring Paul. Just like how real players will react.
I've always been an atheists my whole life, the worm riding scene was the closest thing to rapture I've felt. This movie Is so good it's scary how easy it is to fall to the propaganda of a charismatic leader, Ironic as it is currently in our society.
I love how in the Fremen culture the worms are described in male terms, and the sandstorms as female. They're the two main factors that influence Fremen life so it makes sense
In the first part, the worm also stopped in front of Paul. So it shouldn't be a problem to climb up.
The other houses do not accept Paul Atreides as emperor because he threatens their power structures and the stable status quo. Paul embodies a new, unpredictable force that seems alien and dangerous to the aristocratic and political elites of Landsraad. In the end, they accepted his claim to the title of emperor because they had no choice.
Lol the ending makes me laugh in react vids, like, what more did you expect them to show? It's all spelled out at the end there. Anything more would need hours of coverage, (or a third movie...... ;) ;) ;) ) .
Such a great ending shot with chani , the music, and the desert.
Villeneuve changed much from the book because he is trying to tell this story visually with little dialogue. The book is dialogue heavy and you miss so much from the story. You don't see anything about the Spice guild or the Spacing guild or the politics going on behind the scenes. The Harkonnen are the bad guys but Villeneuve choose to make them more of a typical movie villain. It works but to someone who knows the book and the story it is a bit sad to see the important things skipped over. This is much like how the Lord of the Rings movies hit book nerds. In the end Villeneuve has the same issue that Herbert had in the books. Paul is not a hero and the Fremen are the demons of the galaxy. That is why Herbert came out with the other books and why they need a 3rd and or 4th movie to tell the story completely. The end of this movie is very bleak. The galaxy is about to burn and billions will die all under the name Paul Atreides.
“Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives.”
You 2 caught most important points, and asked good questions...
The answers are in the book, which you really should read! Some very good audiobook readings you can hear here on YT.
So if you remember how they sent a bene gesserit to study feyd rautha, she came back pregnant. This was most likely how Jessica came to be. They make these female babies strategically and they become bene gesserit as well.
Imagine how things would had turned out if the Bene Gesserit didn’t try so hard to manipulate everything and everyone. Their plans ends up backfiring so badly in their face.
They didn’t account that Jessica would defy them by giving birth to a boy instead of having a girl. Oops lol.
Allowed? They had their armies in orbit. Playing for power. Such an innocent take ^^
I watched this at best IMAX in my state, but still not enough, and repeat it 4 times.
The life of water, LMFAO🤣
Great reaction. What most people seem to forget is that Jessica was never married to Paul's father. Buit they were a loving couple. In the book. The end is different. Chani knows the deal. She will be Paul's mate. The Princess will just have the title of wife. Denis just tacked on this ending for a little "cliff hanger" vibes. Again, Chani in the movie played a bigger role than the book. She represented the doubts some of the Fremen had about Paul. I think it was a great improvement. The book was written 60 years ago. Times have changed. Especially for Females. Chani was way more modern. Thanks again for the reaction.
Word
Great reaction!
The family atomics were so that the imperium would have a defense against non-human enemies. And is an absolute no to use them on another great house. In fact a great family used their family atomics on selusa secudus, turning it to a hell world, and the seat of the imperium moved to the planet kaitain, and that family’s name and bloodline was wiped and black listed
I really wish they would’ve included count Fenring in the movie.
The books are way more detailed than the movies. Paul's mother was supposed to have a girl to breed with tge Byron's nephew. That child was supposed to be the kwisatz haderach. Paul is an incomplete kwisatz.
In the book, three-year-old Alia calls the Baron "grandfather" and then kills him. She goes on to be revered (and feared) as St. Alia of the Knife.
The one thing I wish they could have included, the murderous toddler.
@@jeromym5124, I wish they had included many things (the Mentats and the background of the Sardukat among them); however, that was not the story Villeneuve wanted to tell.
@@LeeCarlson would also have been nice if thufir hawat got his book ending too.
@@jeromym5124; however, that would have either detracted from Villeneuve's slam-bang movie or made it another hour or so in length.
@@jeromym5124It's sadly impossible. Even if they got an older actor to dub her voice, no small child can move like an adult. Age her up or down for the screen...
Dune sequel is for me the best one since I was in the theater
The ending was 🤌 I wonder if Part 3 will come out.
A fremen will gladly give their lives to take out a bunch of enemies.
And terraforming is gonna cause a lot of problems for the worms, but it is the will of the tyrant
Absolute Cinema
Hey there, we need a reaction comedy action like rush hour movies, bad boys franchises type of that movies.great reaction btw.
31:26 If you listen closely, you can hear both Feyd and Lady Fenring using the Voice to one-up the other (Feyd to command. Fenring to seduce.) He never stood a chance.
How would Feyd know how to use the voice? It’s a technique the BG keeps hidden like their other techniques. Personally I wish the bits with Feyd, the Fenrings, and Feyd’s failed assassination attempt played out like the book. And apparently Thufir’s scenes would’ve played out like in the book
@ I’d like to imagine it’s largely an attempted mimicry rather than the actual voice. Since the Baron is in so tight with the Reverend Mother, the Harkonenns would absolutely try to duplicate that same level of influence. If you sound like you have the same power as the BG, folks are probably gonna listen to you.
@ the Baron isn’t exactly tight with the reverend mother. He hates the witches. Look at what he did to Dr. Yueh’s wife. She was also bene gesserit. The only importance the Baron has to her is that she is Jessica’s father. Other than that, she went to the Baron to relay that the emperor would provide troops from his sardukar.
@ In my head cannon, he would try to sound more powerful than he actually was. And it’s fun to think that Feyd had actually mastered some of the Voice third-hand. That would just up his threat level that much higher.
FINALLY
Dune is a cautionary tale of hero worship, of the cult of power, of placing individuals on pedestals and of those individuals believing it, Paul is not a hero, not even of his own story, as he himself would be the first to admit. indeed his entire journey is him trying to avoid his destiny (or rather the inevitable tides of society breaking free from stagnation with revolution), but eventually and reluctantly accepting it. They changed some stuff for the film (jessica, chani mostly) and lost a lot of nuance because of it, but perhaps that was inevitable in trying to make it only 3hours long :) I think they did an excellent job with these films, but really, this is perhaps the biggest case of you really need to read the book to really understand it.
also Paul is NOT the bene gesserit messiah, that was supposed to be produced by jessica's daughter, but she had paul and he is something new, something different, something the bene gesserit cant control. effectively he is the narrative personification of a society striving for evolution.
Paul the reluctant messiah.
Chani in the books was in love with Paul and totally devoted to his ascension to power. Chani and Jessica work together in the background for a common goal - getting Paul in leadership of the Fremen. Having her be so off program with a man she professes to love is freaking bizarre.
If that’s the case, then it is completely different than the movie
Sadly, we live in Girl Power world now. Changes were made to appease.
So much was done wrong. The Great Houses not acknowledging Paul’s betrothal to Irulan and his ascension, the Baron being able to send an instantaneous message to the Great Houses, and of course movie Chani’s utter estrangement from book Chani
The central thesis of the Dune series can be summarized by: "do not trust charismatic leaders and do not centralize power." Frank Herbert found that too many people did not pick up on that point and wrote Dune Messiah to be more transparent in that messaging. In the film, Chani's opposition to Paul's ascendancy serves Herbert's central point and is introduced earlier so as to make that tonal shift less jarring. If Paul did not face resistance from someone in his inner circle in the film, most film goers would interpret his story as a Hero's Journey which it absolutely is not. If you don't like the narrative structure of introducing resistance so early, that's fine, but dismissing it as a "Girl Bossing" is a misread.
@@somedude7938 absolutely right
The Bene Gesserit is all about the training.
The thing that probably bothers me the most in this film, (both actually,) is that Jessica was the Duke's concubine, not wife--He had not taken a wife. So when we get to the end we understand that Paul could have Chani as a concubine in the way his mother was and also have a strategic marriage to the princess. I just think that could have been driven home more for the average viewer.
The prophecy is constructed, so all the characters have to do is fulfill their roles in the prophecy.
Thing about it being long it needed to be longer they left out a lot of the world building they are doing two books in three films. To tell it right it needs to be two books in five movies.