I think it can be safely assumed that any time a maester talks about Visenya’s motivations or who she does or does not like they have no clue what they’re talking about. Visenya’s actions throughout the story reflect a woman loyal to her family that would do anything to protect them and their goals, but the maesters portray her as a cold, constantly bitter and jealous woman- first towards Rhaenys, and then towards Aenys. That’s in spite of the fact she committed horrific war crimes in Dorne to avenge the former and (harshly) counseled the latter to grow a spine and save their dynasty. Martin makes it pretty clear that the way the maesters talk about her is colored by their own biases, so I’d say that when they declare she “didn’t like Tianna,” they just didn’t know what they were talking about. They don’t cite any specific examples of hostility between them- was she particularly cold to her? Well, she’s cold to EVERYONE, so that means nothing. Fantastic video.
Tyanna was the main reason Maegor came into power. Maegor was forced to require her help again and again. First with his wounds(trial of the seven), then with the High Septon of Oldtown who suddenly died(shadow baby), then with Rhaena’s kids because Rhaena herself didn’t know where they were hidden. Maegor made peace with Rhaena and made Tyanna find the kids with either a glass candle or a warg.
I've seen some people saying that the reason, supposedly, for the deformity of Maegor's children is because of the blood magic that Visenya made for him to be born. and these monster babies were just a consequence of Visenya's actions so that the Targaryen lineage continued (through her blood) But this theory is incredible too!! first video that i watch but i already love your channel.
Since reading F&B I have had similar thoughts about Tyanna using Visenya's life force to bring back Maegor. Similar to Dany "the price is too high" is found out later.
just noticed the new intro... i have truly loved seeing your content evolve over that past year since i subbed. love how you do actual literary/character analysis and have cool ideas, and not just dry lore dumps lol keep it up!!!!
My only issue with this theory is that Maegor's first wife, Ceryse Hightower, never conceived either. They tried for many years and keep in mind that this was waay before Tyanna came into the picture. You could say that she was barren, but I find that unlikely. She was 23 when she married Maegor and she never got pregnant, despite being married for years. I think he was infertile from the very beginning due to his unnatural birth. It's heavily implied that Visenya used blood magic to have a son who would keep the Targaryen dynasty going, but conceiving a child using magic has never given the best results in ASOIAF... I think the sacrifice was Aegon the Uncrowned. He was his nephew so he's still Maegor kin. I think his undeserved death paid for Maegor's lingering life.
He was infertile or at least not very fertile (let's not forget that Maegor got married at 13 with Ceryse the first years wouldn't produce heirs either way), but he also did have three stillborn kids after, so something happened in the meantime and the only thing that happened was Tyanna. Considering the way things are worded for Alys Rivers [Was she in truth a witch who lay with demons, bringing forth dead children as payment for the knowledge they gave her?], they "brought forth" stillborn for this reason exactly as a sacrifice, there wasn't any way he would have a kid under normal circumstances, but the fact that he had three stillborn, only after he was healed, is very sus.
χαῖρε! Glad we got a new vid. I was starting to get worried. I can't help but notice the "speaking to rats and spiders" line, which is also seen in HOTD where the same animals represent "secret knowledge"/"Prophecy"/"Clairvoyance". It can be read both literally (She's has awesome, witchy "beast speech"), and/or figuratively in that she talks to a network of spies, maesters, etc...Knowledge is power and women have always been associated with the wisdom of the Pharmakon (φάρμακον). "All medicine is poison, when given in the proper measure.", and many "poisons" can be medicine. Sounds like he was in a "drug-induced" state, which was then reversed with an "antidote". Maegor was their Meat Puppet all the while, mayhaps? Cheers & Tschuss!
I was finishing my thesis and I am gonna have a presentation in 2-3 weeks, that's why I do not upload as often don't worry too much, from November I will upload more often. Spiders specifically are always connected to prophesy and knowledge in the series, which is why I never really vibed with the "Larys is a skinchanger" theory, I think it was symbolic more than anything, same as Varys. With Tyanna tho, my girl is sus.
I think that as far as high-ranking Maesters are concerned, they have an ultimate goal, and they were not fans of the Targaryens for sure. Let's not forget that maesters were heavily involved in Summerhall. Are EVERY maester aware of everything, no obviously, but denying that maesters are as shady as hell as the ranking is going up, is not on par with what we see.
@CompanyOfTheCat this is tin foil..what if there IS a Valyrian steel sword wrapped up in the Iron throne. That last night Maegor was alive he accidentally scratched himself on it, it killed him because he's a wight and he just collapsed onto the other swords.
@@CompanyOfTheCat okay, check this out... Tyanna was tied to the magic that brought Maegor out of his trial by combat coma. When Maegor killed her, a clock started ticking on him. Again he's up on the throne his heart just stops, he falls onto the blades.
@@Guinnessdrnkr1234 oh I never thought of that. Nobody wanted Rhaena off Dragon Stone more than her brother! Especially after she lost those dragon eggs. It would have been so easy to approach Androw and tell him that all the answers to his problems are in a vial of poison.
Wonderful Video😍 I love these dark Grey Characters in Martin's World. Can't wait to see your Euron Video, I am so excited, how far are you in the Script or reread? Although Kingsblood is powerful, I think it depends on the Person who wants something from Magic what the Sacrifice is. In Daenerys Case it is her child, in Stannis Case, it is his Seed (a.k.a. future Children) and finally for the Dragon eggs to be hatched Mirri Maaz Duur was sacrificed. So it depends on who wants something because Daenerys wanted to hatch the Eggs and used someone who practised Magic as a Sacrifice, I think it is safe to say that Daenerys neither loved nor cared for Mirri after she killed her Son and didn't even bring Drogo back. But it does work, the Eggs hatch and the Dragons are back in the World. And as far as I understood it, Thorros gave a little bit of his own Life every time he resurrected Beric and Beric gave his own Life, which he didn't even value anymore, for Catelyn Stark. So ... I think the Sacrifice is very aligned with the Person who has to sacrifice, in our Case that would probably have been Alys and Visenya. And during your Video, I got an idea. There is a Hint that Melissandre is much older than she looks like. At the End of Season 5/6, we see that in the Show when she takes off her Ruby. and when she dies, she does so, because she takes off her Ruby and lets time take her Life. So what if, to either Heal or resurrect Jon Melissandre uses her own magical extended Lifespan as a Sacrifice? I mean it could work, we saw it working with Thorros and Beric and with Catelyn. After that Sacrifice she ages and dies at the End because of her true Age, just as she did in the Show.
100% the sacrifice depends on the occasion, we have seen, relatives and magic users mostly. I think the king's blood means magical blood and not literal king, after all the ancient kings were kings because they had magic. As for Mel, I can see her sacrificing herself in the end, for what I am not sure, but I don't think it would be for Jon's resurrection, mostly because I think Mel would be useful in the long run and I imagine she will see the falling of the wall, etc.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Okay, I meant her ... Immortality? That she sacrificed that, not her whole Life just the Immortality ... You are from Greece, right? Is Greek a very complicated Language? Maybe I should try to learn it, maybe we could understand each other better then... at least you would be able to point out my mistakes😅
Maegor suffer from some head injury with fighting with the Faith. Fighting over the throne. That woman poison his Wives so they miscarries his children.
ΟΚ, αυτο βγαζει νόημα. Οταν η Τυάννα του ειπε ότι ηταν υπεύθυνη που δεν μπορουσε να κανει παιδια έλεγε την αλήθεια. Απλά το βιβλίο δεν ηταν ακριβές για το πως το έκανε.
I think it can be safely assumed that any time a maester talks about Visenya’s motivations or who she does or does not like they have no clue what they’re talking about.
Visenya’s actions throughout the story reflect a woman loyal to her family that would do anything to protect them and their goals, but the maesters portray her as a cold, constantly bitter and jealous woman- first towards Rhaenys, and then towards Aenys. That’s in spite of the fact she committed horrific war crimes in Dorne to avenge the former and (harshly) counseled the latter to grow a spine and save their dynasty.
Martin makes it pretty clear that the way the maesters talk about her is colored by their own biases, so I’d say that when they declare she “didn’t like Tianna,” they just didn’t know what they were talking about. They don’t cite any specific examples of hostility between them- was she particularly cold to her? Well, she’s cold to EVERYONE, so that means nothing.
Fantastic video.
Tyanna was the main reason Maegor came into power. Maegor was forced to require her help again and again. First with his wounds(trial of the seven), then with the High Septon of Oldtown who suddenly died(shadow baby), then with Rhaena’s kids because Rhaena herself didn’t know where they were hidden. Maegor made peace with Rhaena and made Tyanna find the kids with either a glass candle or a warg.
I've seen some people saying that the reason, supposedly, for the deformity of Maegor's children is because of the blood magic that Visenya made for him to be born. and these monster babies were just a consequence of Visenya's actions so that the Targaryen lineage continued (through her blood)
But this theory is incredible too!! first video that i watch but i already love your channel.
Since reading F&B I have had similar thoughts about Tyanna using Visenya's life force to bring back Maegor. Similar to Dany "the price is too high" is found out later.
I had never put together the Alys, Alys and Tyanna parallels, but you are correct I think. Damn!
Love the fact that you still come up with fresh theories! Keep up the good work
just noticed the new intro... i have truly loved seeing your content evolve over that past year since i subbed. love how you do actual literary/character analysis and have cool ideas, and not just dry lore dumps lol keep it up!!!!
Thank you!!! I am glad there are people who enjoy them 😊
Great analysis! Interesting points! Well done
Anything about Maegor the Hunk is PERFECT in my book 😉
The thiiirst 😂
Great video as always!
My only issue with this theory is that Maegor's first wife, Ceryse Hightower, never conceived either. They tried for many years and keep in mind that this was waay before Tyanna came into the picture. You could say that she was barren, but I find that unlikely. She was 23 when she married Maegor and she never got pregnant, despite being married for years.
I think he was infertile from the very beginning due to his unnatural birth. It's heavily implied that Visenya used blood magic to have a son who would keep the Targaryen dynasty going, but conceiving a child using magic has never given the best results in ASOIAF...
I think the sacrifice was Aegon the Uncrowned. He was his nephew so he's still Maegor kin. I think his undeserved death paid for Maegor's lingering life.
He was infertile or at least not very fertile (let's not forget that Maegor got married at 13 with Ceryse the first years wouldn't produce heirs either way), but he also did have three stillborn kids after, so something happened in the meantime and the only thing that happened was Tyanna.
Considering the way things are worded for Alys Rivers [Was she in truth a witch who lay with demons, bringing forth dead children as payment for the knowledge they gave her?], they "brought forth" stillborn for this reason exactly as a sacrifice, there wasn't any way he would have a kid under normal circumstances, but the fact that he had three stillborn, only after he was healed, is very sus.
Maegor's first wife was barren but NOT Maegor.
@@CompanyOfTheCat 13 years olds can impregnate women.!
χαῖρε! Glad we got a new vid. I was starting to get worried. I can't help but notice the "speaking to rats and spiders" line, which is also seen in HOTD where the same animals represent "secret knowledge"/"Prophecy"/"Clairvoyance". It can be read both literally (She's has awesome, witchy "beast speech"), and/or figuratively in that she talks to a network of spies, maesters, etc...Knowledge is power and women have always been associated with the wisdom of the Pharmakon (φάρμακον). "All medicine is poison, when given in the proper measure.", and many "poisons" can be medicine. Sounds like he was in a "drug-induced" state, which was then reversed with an "antidote". Maegor was their Meat Puppet all the while, mayhaps? Cheers & Tschuss!
I was finishing my thesis and I am gonna have a presentation in 2-3 weeks, that's why I do not upload as often don't worry too much, from November I will upload more often.
Spiders specifically are always connected to prophesy and knowledge in the series, which is why I never really vibed with the "Larys is a skinchanger" theory, I think it was symbolic more than anything, same as Varys. With Tyanna tho, my girl is sus.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Good luck at your presentation!
This is such a cool video, definitely subscribing!
“There’s no Maester Conspiracy”… also Aenys ages 30+ years in a couple of weeks and Maegor is left in a coma for a Month. Ridiculous Ostrich behavior
I think that as far as high-ranking Maesters are concerned, they have an ultimate goal, and they were not fans of the Targaryens for sure. Let's not forget that maesters were heavily involved in Summerhall. Are EVERY maester aware of everything, no obviously, but denying that maesters are as shady as hell as the ranking is going up, is not on par with what we see.
@CompanyOfTheCat this is tin foil..what if there IS a Valyrian steel sword wrapped up in the Iron throne. That last night Maegor was alive he accidentally scratched himself on it, it killed him because he's a wight and he just collapsed onto the other swords.
tinfoil indeed ... but 👀
@@CompanyOfTheCat okay, check this out... Tyanna was tied to the magic that brought Maegor out of his trial by combat coma. When Maegor killed her, a clock started ticking on him. Again he's up on the throne his heart just stops, he falls onto the blades.
Jaehaerys had Maegor poisoned like Septon Moon. Jaehaerys Also found a way to get the poison in Androw Farman's hands.
@@Guinnessdrnkr1234 oh I never thought of that. Nobody wanted Rhaena off Dragon Stone more than her brother! Especially after she lost those dragon eggs. It would have been so easy to approach Androw and tell him that all the answers to his problems are in a vial of poison.
@@BussinJeiber-wy1nc Androw went off script when he poisoned all of Rhaena's friends instead.
Wonderful Video😍 I love these dark Grey Characters in Martin's World. Can't wait to see your Euron Video, I am so excited, how far are you in the Script or reread?
Although Kingsblood is powerful, I think it depends on the Person who wants something from Magic what the Sacrifice is. In Daenerys Case it is her child, in Stannis Case, it is his Seed (a.k.a. future Children) and finally for the Dragon eggs to be hatched Mirri Maaz Duur was sacrificed. So it depends on who wants something because Daenerys wanted to hatch the Eggs and used someone who practised Magic as a Sacrifice, I think it is safe to say that Daenerys neither loved nor cared for Mirri after she killed her Son and didn't even bring Drogo back. But it does work, the Eggs hatch and the Dragons are back in the World. And as far as I understood it, Thorros gave a little bit of his own Life every time he resurrected Beric and Beric gave his own Life, which he didn't even value anymore, for Catelyn Stark. So ... I think the Sacrifice is very aligned with the Person who has to sacrifice, in our Case that would probably have been Alys and Visenya.
And during your Video, I got an idea. There is a Hint that Melissandre is much older than she looks like. At the End of Season 5/6, we see that in the Show when she takes off her Ruby. and when she dies, she does so, because she takes off her Ruby and lets time take her Life. So what if, to either Heal or resurrect Jon Melissandre uses her own magical extended Lifespan as a Sacrifice? I mean it could work, we saw it working with Thorros and Beric and with Catelyn. After that Sacrifice she ages and dies at the End because of her true Age, just as she did in the Show.
100% the sacrifice depends on the occasion, we have seen, relatives and magic users mostly. I think the king's blood means magical blood and not literal king, after all the ancient kings were kings because they had magic.
As for Mel, I can see her sacrificing herself in the end, for what I am not sure, but I don't think it would be for Jon's resurrection, mostly because I think Mel would be useful in the long run and I imagine she will see the falling of the wall, etc.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Okay, I meant her ... Immortality? That she sacrificed that, not her whole Life just the Immortality ... You are from Greece, right? Is Greek a very complicated Language? Maybe I should try to learn it, maybe we could understand each other better then... at least you would be able to point out my mistakes😅
Maegor suffer from some head injury with fighting with the Faith. Fighting over the throne. That woman poison his Wives so they miscarries his children.
ΟΚ, αυτο βγαζει νόημα. Οταν η Τυάννα του ειπε ότι ηταν υπεύθυνη που δεν μπορουσε να κανει παιδια έλεγε την αλήθεια. Απλά το βιβλίο δεν ηταν ακριβές για το πως το έκανε.