African Mahogany vs Genuine Mahogany Tone: 5 Ways to Identify
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- #mahogany #mahoganywood #woodworking
African Mahogany vs Genuine Mahogany: 5 Ways to Identify
It's not always easy to tell the difference between Khaya Mahogany and Honduran Mahogany. Despite what some woodworkers claim, board weight or density is not a reliable indicator.
Although there are many types of mahogany wood, this video is about the two major commercially available species.
I've seen plenty of African Mahogany that looks like Genuine. I've also seen Honduras with Khaya characteristics. Often, high quality Khaya can be a cheap mahogany alternative. Unfortunately, those same desirable wood properties can make it difficult to distinguish from Genuine.
In this video, we are not giving tips on working with mahogany. Instead, we look at the visual mahogany wood properties of both African Mahogany and Genuine Mahogany, also known as Honduran or Honduras Mahogany.
Additionally, I give you five tips to help determine if the board you are looking at is Genuine or African.
The five tips in this video are an abridged version of the 8 methods we discuss on our website for distinguishing African from Honduran Mahogany tonewood.
#1. Grain. Genuine Mahogany grain tends to be fine, slight and uniform. African Mahogany grain is usually more open, erratic, and inconsistent.
#2. Figure. African tends to have more figured grain than Honduras. It can have ribbon luster, undulating roped or chatoyant grain. Genuine rarely exhibits wild figure. When it does, it’s typically tight flame or subtle curl.
#3. Color. Color is not the best indicator for this specie comparison. But, it is worth noting. Generally speaking, Honduran has a uniform, dark rich brown based color. Whereas, African exhibits color variations and has a slightly reddish hue.
#4. Dark Pencil Lines. In all honesty, I have not idea what the hell these things are called. However, when you see them consistently you are looking at Khaya. They are thin vertical lines in the board with accumulations of either dark mineral or dirt.
#5. Machining. Genuine Mahogany cuts like butter. African Khaya is prone to fuzzing and grain tear-out. The elevated silica content in Khaya interferes with cutting blades. Thus, with certain millwork-intensive projects, substituting Khaya for Genuine is a poor idea, regardless of the visual similarities between the two species.
#6. Price. How much did you pay for it? Generally speaking, Genuine is roughly twice the price of African.
#7. Name. Genuine is the premium option. Accordingly, when people pay for Genuine, they want you to know it. Thus, the board, millwork, furniture or product will be specifically identified as Genuine or Honduras. Alternatively, when a lessor mahogany is used, it’s typically referred to generically as “Mahogany.”
#8. Import Paperwork. If the wood is new stock, you can request import documentation from your supplier. CITES documents are required to bring Genuine into the United States. However, any imported woods are required to have a United States Department of Agriculture PPQ form 505 which correctly identifies the specie and country of origin. Not all suppliers will either have or provide this information but it’s worth a shot if all else fails.
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Great info!
Thanks for watching, Tonefiend!
@@CommercialForest yes! Really great piece! Thank you so much! I'll be up there soon for more wood!
Tonefiend 👍
Great job Steve! Great info. This is a question I’ve long had. And, I absolutely love your transitions 😂 you never fail to make me throughly engaged.
2019 Mildred Montag I appreciate your comments!
Wow- I learned so much from your video, thanks.
Thank you. Loved this.
Thanks Steve, it was helpful
Really informative video, Steve. I watched this video 2 times and learned more from your highlighted points about mahogany wood. Have a fine weekend.
Houndsman One
Thanks 🙏 I appreciate the feedback. RUclips counts views but there are views and “views” if you know what I mean 😝.
Whenever someone picks up something helpful, I consider it feather in my cap. See you next time Houndsman One!
Thank you for the video. I recently acquired a phenomenal amount of mahogany wood. I m3an a shot ton. Very wide and thick. Some as much as 2.5 inches thick and up to 12' long and 12" wide. It had been sitting in a warehouse for the past 40+ years. It's all rough sawn. I have a couple planers,jointer etc. I need to plane some of it I guess to determine what type but I am leaning towards genuine mahogany based on what I have learned. Anyway thanks for the info
I just finished a D-18 out of African Mahogany... the grain is almost tigered , and it pops out at you .. Its light .. but best of all... Its the best sounding guitar I own . In fact It rivals a top deluxe Martin with expensive wood costing thousands of dollars..
In both looks and sound . It's a great sounding wood ... with a lot of tone ....
I've heard the pencil marks called "rays" thanks for the info!
I selected ultra-light mahogany for my LP build I'm ordering. I'm doing all the hardware myself. They have Honduran, but I am concerned about weight. I already own 2 LP's that are boat anchors. One is a Japanese built African m, and the other a 78' Gibson that lives up to 70's Gibson weight issues. Regardless I played for years onstage with it and became used to it.
I want this new 59' spec build to reflect the weight of the original Gibsons, which were light. And just wanted to know what a lighter LP felt like. Honestly I can't tell the difference in sound of my Honduran vs. African mahogany guitars, other than their dramatically different pickups. Different fretboards too, one ebony and the other rosewood.
I am Steve and I approve this video!
Good tips 👍
Alejandro Cantu thanks for watching and commenting!
The weight and density should make it extremely easy when it comes to musical instruments, but you broke it down perfectly with your expertise. *When it comes to guitars, if a guitar is sold as mahogany but you pick it up and it's lightweight, you know you have an African variety especially based on where that guitar was made.*
Every mahogany guitar I own is dense and extremely heavy compared to other very popular woods, *but sometimes you get a mahogany guitar that is as light as basswood!*
Typically, a guitarist used to mahogany that picks up a lightweight mahogany guitar will not be happy about it.
Thanks. I don't think we've ever had mahjogany as light as basswood but it definitely has a wide range of density.
@@CommercialForest yes I was exaggerating but there's still a sense of ridiculous lightness to some. I just got a 24-fret mahogany neck and body Alexi Laiho style V.
It's so light it sort of feels like the wood fibers are aerated like basswood. The more I look at what graining is visible, pick it up and hold it in various positions the more I can feel it's certainly a Mahogany but an exotic breed like Khaya and the pieces in my guitar are somewhat light and it has a borderline hollow feel to both the body and neck.
*I have to strip the paint and clearcoat off the neck today though so once I get to the bare wood, I'll be 100% certain about many things, not just the wood breed used!*
Oddly, I have had some pear wood instruments, and this thing has greatly felt like one of those super strong fruit woods. The pearwood necks tend to feel hollow but there's almost no poring as I'm sure you know, and fruit trees produce some of the toughest lumber.
@@JonDeth We brought in some figured pearwood slabs a few years ago, One was 20" wide x 18 feet long. It was insanely dense. Needed a forklift to flip it over.
@@CommercialForest it seems like it would be an interesting experience and the instrument 1 of a kind top of the line, but I am in the Midwest and ordering specialty lumber is beyond my budget distance lol.
Fortunately, I can get furniture grade poplar for under $20 to build most any size and shape body, so it'll have to do for now. Eventually, I will have my CNC mill doing most of the work, so the day may come I can get something exotic going on.
Great job
AX Workshop Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.😀
Since I don't know anything about this topic, it was very interesting.
karen4you thanks Karen! I appreciate the feedback!
oh, yeah.. "subscribed!" :)
Beautiful vlog 🎄 Great job, and super like 🌺 Always full supported ❤️ Waiting to visit 👍Thanks for good sharing
DHV VLOG thanks for watching. See you around!
Hey Steve! Dave here from MLP. Good vid! For me, the distinct "ribbon" striping that seems to move when you walk past it (there's a word for that) is really evident in much African mahog. I don't see such ribbon or "moving" effect in genuine..
I just recently learned Gibson makes their guitars out of both mahogany and African mahogany.
Good color
Thanks Steve. But if I already purchased african instead of the genuine, then what are disadvantages? I assume none and it can be a less expensive alternative. Pls correct if i am wrong.
Absolutely! After we posted this we heard from a number of luthiers who prefer African over Genuine. There is nothing to worry about in using African Mahogany for a build. We just want to help people differentiate these two similar-looking species. Thanks for watching!
@@CommercialForest thanks again
I couldn’t tell in the video, does the African mahogany have the consistent pencil marks or is it the genuine mahogany?
I typically associate the pencil lines with African more than Genuine. However, it's not a hard & fast rule. More of a clue.
How we differentiate desi mhogany and african mhogany plant
Sinker Honduran has all kinds of figure, red dark brown, ribbon, dark lines etc. So does regular old growth Honduran. So I guess it depends on what the source was.
The soil conditions play a huge part in what the tree (& ultimately Lumber) looks like.
I have about 10 Mahogany trees in my Dad's farm in Brazil that they're about 22 years old now. I wanna sell them to music factories, would you mind giving me a few tips?
Eddu13 Great question!
I would first start with seeing what the local and national regulations & Global regulations are.
On one hand, they are your trees. On the other hand, the global community has a big say in if & how certain species can be processed/sold (and where). For example, you may be able to sell them to local factories, but not international. You may not be able to cut them at all.
Ironically, in some places you can’t sell them but destroying the forest and creating a cow 🐄 pasture is no problem at all. 🤪
Regardless of whether or not any regulation makes sense to you personally, your first priority should be make sure any options you are considering abide by all local & national regulations.
To do that you should first determine the exact species of Mahogany that you have. Different rules apply to different species.
Good luck my friend!
@@CommercialForest I already found out that I can sell them because I planted them, though it kinda hurt my heart to cut them but I need the money and I will plant more of them and other species that are rare such as the Brazilian rosewood (this one i know I can't sell and it'sa gorgeous tree when it blossoms).
I do need to see what type of mahogany they are.
Your transitions though... 😂
Heidi Ondich FYI - I said star wipe before I even realized that I don’t actually have a star wipe 💫
African has what I was told are "switchbacks" undulating directional differences in grain.
ethics101 That’s interesting. I pulled up some pictures & think I see what you’re talking about. For the most part you need to be looking at flat sawn mahogany. I’m trying to envision whether or not that is limited to African mahogany but at a minimum, I’d say it’s definitely more common!
Which one best mahogany sir?
Different people have different opinions. If price is the only measure, Genuine Mahogany is best.
What is the latin or scientific name of genuine mahogany?
@@robertjleter "Swietenia macrophylla" is the scientific name for genuine mahogany. It is also the same name for what comes out of Cuba, who was the "mother" nation of genuine mahogany.
Good day Steve, my name is Shammah please do you have any contacts for African mahogany manufacturers in Africa , please if you do share with me I’d be so grateful.. thanks 🙏🏽
imgur.com/gallery/CsbfLtB
Can you tell me what kind of Mahogany this is? It's just sold as African mahogany but he didn't say which one. It's extremely heavy and dense.
@Billy McCatty Powell It's pink. Here I'll upload a short video so you can see it.
@Billy McCatty Powell See ruclips.net/video/PWpJdmEBVV4/видео.html
@Billy McCatty Powell You're probably right. The workers at the place I got it from are all from South America. Anyway, let me when you see it so I can delete it.
Why do you call it "Genuine" Mahogany? There is no such thing. There's no tree out there called a "Genuine Mahogany".
It’s just a trade name that’s taken root over the years. Most woods have multiple common names & 1 scientific one (that only botanists use 😆 )
You keep throwing around the term "GENUINE Mahogany" without truly defining it.
Genuine Mahogany is just another name for Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla)
African Mahogany *is* "genuine" mahogany.
It's actually not mahogany at all....completely different species. That doesn't make it bad, my favorite guitar is made from "African Mahogany", just saying.
@@Nightbreed82 If you're going to go down to the species level, then pretty much no one uses "genuine" mahogany, because the OG mahogany is Cuban mahogany and that is hasn't been exported out of Cuba for over 70 years buddy.
@@katalysis that's another topic. I'm not going down any level, I was merely correcting you....."buddy". But you are right that no one uses "genuine" mahogany today....which contradicts your first statement btw. Kinda my point.
@@Nightbreed82 the cuban version was also named Swietenia macrophylla,, just as the Houduran tree is. So yeah, it's the same thing, scientifically.
@@katalysis "buddy" comment. getting froggy over species of trees? LOL.