Yes, but it wasn't needed any more. Sad, I know, but it was time of huge cuts in the railways and the GCR main line to London was surplus to requirements.
Even as a 24 year old born and raised in Nottingham I wish I could have been alive to see such a magnificent station. Really sad that this beauty was closed in favour of a shopping centre. Railways run in my family and it's sad to see the collapse of the GCR and the GNR.
The Station had a handful of passengers whereas the Victoria Centre gets 20 million visitors a year. We can't afford to have redundant infrastructure occupying prime sites, nor afford to keep it running making huge losses, just for the titillation of a few railway buffs. We have to move with the times and give the majority more useful buildings.
@@PreservationEnthusiast yeah it was only like that because it was deliberately rand down. The station that should have gone was Nottingham midland as the gcr was a superior line.
@@damiendye6623 No, nobody was using the GCR. It was a useless duplicate line. It needed to be smashed apart, demolished, and the land repurposed. This is exactly what happend. The Midland Station is a fine station it is Grade 2* listed.
@@PreservationEnthusiast really thats your point of view and by your handle your clearly anti railway, this line has plenty of traffic and was prime for freight which was the primary use. It was run down deliberately but yet the mml which wasnt aligned for cross country surviced even though its a duplicate of the east coast mainline is still around although curtailed. The gcr provided all the cross country routes which today go the long way around, this line is badly needed along with the didcot newbury and winchester for a backbone for traffic from southampton that blocks the mainlines to london.
@@damiendye6623 The line south of Nottingham was kept open for freight for a while. They never really made a go of it. And when you say it was "run down" they were still providing trains, but people didn't care to use them. The Victoria Centre gets more visitors, 20 million a year, than Victoria station ever got. Also you say I am anti railway... not true at all. Railways are the most efficient means of transport per passenger mile. I am all for efficient transport using non polluting non fossil fuel power such as electricity from renewable resource and hydrogen power.
You have to remember in post-war Britain modernity came first. There was little room for sentiment among city planners whose task was to modernise cities.
@@christopherbusby1726 What a biased video. It was a white elephant station on a white elephant line. Beeching was correct to close the line. Now there is a very nice and well used shopping centre.
Oh, it’s you again. With all that money you have from “Scrapping locomotives and stations” why don’t you buy yourself a life and stop wasting your time pestering railfans like myself?
I'm watching this from Australia . When I was a teenager I lived in Grantham and spent hours on Nottingham Victoria trainspotting . Didn't know how lucky I was. Thanks. regards Stephen Wallwork.
I remember standing on the top floor of the then new car park opposite during demolition and thinking one day we will need this railway, how true fast forward 50 odd years! It was the 1960's though and we were gripped with the knock down the old and rebuild in concrete mania.
Poignant memories. Watching the wrecking ball destroy our heritage. Could almost still smell the smoke steam and oil while trainspotting. How could we have allowed 46251 to be scrapped just months after it was filmed on that RCTS trip. If only the trackbed had been preserved. Thanks for posting. Fortunate are we to at least remember Vic Station.
Greetings from an American rail enthusiast. I understand the desire not to get too worked up about the demolition of Nottingham Victoria but viewing this from across the pond makes me feel a bit like Treebeard in the Two Towers: "Saruman! The wizard should know better!"
Great video! Rather sad to watch. I live in the vic centre with all that history beneath me. I think before the Victoria railway station, it was the union workhouse which is even sadder to know.
Once the envy of the world and inventor of the railway revolution during the Victorian era. Watching the last years of Nottingham’s Victoria station and its final closure in 1967, it's so heartbreaking to see the destruction of the Station, especially the wrecking ball, such a terrible shame. I think it's great to see the clock tower has survived, but why did they decide to keep it and not demolish it completely?
They occasionally left a bit of a station or other railway building as a piss take. Same with collieries, the favourite thing was to leave the pit head winding wheels at the entrance to the industrial estate that is built on the site of the mine.
The music makes it sad and it's sad to see how disgraceful of what buildings they replaced it with which today makes the clock tower surrounded by this terrible 1970's concrete structures, the station should've deserved better than this
The only railway in Britain built to Continental Load Gauge Standard and with only one Level Crossing between Sheffield and London. The wrong decision to not only close this wonderfully designed railway and then admit it only a few years later is an absolute testimony to short-sightedness. The Vic was my educational playground until i was nearly 12 years old. 😔 Nigel Dawson
You are wrong - it was built to continental gauge because they had visions of running trains through a channel tunnel when the GCR was being built.@@leeosborne3793
What a magnificent building, so sad to see it being torn apart. It was quite horrific to watch a Victorian building being smashed up, how times have changed, these days we have a greater appreciation for historic buildings.
I enjoyed seeing the station getting smashed up. The opinion was that is was a symbol of the Great Central and the memory of such a bad underused line should be erased as far as possible.
@@PreservationEnthusiast A few people share that opinion and didn’t see the point in the line as it duplicated almost exactly another line of a competitor, BUT at the same time it provided lots of people with work, some places got stations where otherwise they wouldn’t have. Pointless or not Nottingham Central station was far nicer a building than the faceless monolith that stands today.
@@willswheels283 From what you are saying it seems we should pay for people to have jobs out of the public purse just to keep them busy. Regardless of how many people are using the services they provide. That sounds a recipe for economic disaster to me. BR was losing millions pre Beeching. Much of this wastage was later cut out. As for the building, I would rather have a building that is used rather than derelict wasteland with debatedly better aesthetics. The Victoria centre is used by 20 million people a year rather than the handful that used Victoria Station.
@@PreservationEnthusiast And from what you are saying you want an argument…well I’m not giving you the pleasure sir! All I meant was that it was sad to see a nice building wasted for the sake of a square ugly shopping centre. These days it would not have been allowed to be bulldozed completely, but incorporated into a useful purpose. Enough said from me.
Travelled to Fareham changing at Basingstoke when I was a child to see my grandparents from Nottingham Victoria on a few occasions in the early sixties. Victoria made the Midland Station look like a regional station. No comparison. The architecture was of the best of the Victorian era. It's such a shame.
If you read the George Dow incredible volumes of the history and infrastructure of the Great Central Railway it is specifically mentioned that the line was built to Continental Load Gauge in the hope that this would be an absolute genius of forethought in its construction. Only British loaded trains were ever used but the facility was in place should the dream of the Great Central using their innovative engineering being used for that purpose ever be fulfilled.
Very interesting collection of films. Architecturally, Nottingham Victoria was equal to London Marylebone as GCR's greatest station. A great pity it closed, but for many years BR had managed decline of the GCR as a 'duplicate route' in order to prioritise investment in (in this case) the Midland Main Line instead. The dreadful decision to wreck the whole lot except for the clock tower was of course nothing to do with BR. In the context of those times, it's little surprise that town planners and developers briefed architects to come up with a bold showpiece 'statement' for the city centre. A generation or two on, the outcome might have been to repurpose the fabric of the station minus just the ugliest/ grubbiest bits - rather like Manchester Central - who knows?
There was a good reason for this. Many trains changed locos there, but there were no depots in the vicinity. The Great Central did have one to the south, between the station and the crossing of the Trent, but Nottingham City Council imposed very high business rates, so the Great Central built a new depot at Annesley, some seven miles north. With the tunnels being heavily used, even after the Beeching report of 1963, there were few spare light engine paths, so locos were turned in the station, and possibly received minor servicing from time to time. That explains why there were so many non-platform tracks for storing locos, rolling stock, etc.
@@andrewtaylor5984 a lot of the locos were off colwick for local traffic ,Annesley had locos mainly used for the semi fast to Marylebone Scots,jubes,brits and black 5s..there was also 9fs on the windcutters,I lived near that route so I know a lot about it
I had not forgotten Colwick. I have heard that after the regional boundary changes of 1958, Annesley and Colwick did not always see eye to eye. Were the three trains to London and return workings the only regular passenger turns from Annesley? Colwick did have local passenger workings until the GC was run down, but then took over the London trains at the beginning of 1966, when Annesley closed. I gather that the transfer of Colwick to the LM Region, was not well received, as many enginemen still there had been LNER employees, and regarded LMS stock as inferior. N.B. I have never lived in the area, but I have been trying to reconstruct, for a non-railway enthusiast, the downfall of the line. I am reasonably certain that if the line had remained under ER control, it would have remained open. All that was needed was for regional managers to get their heads together and co-ordinate operations.
Swift. He should have been very swiftly given his marching orders. What an appalling abomination of a "replacement" for the magnificent Victoria station . . . .
This was the "Brave New World" which was going sweep away everything that existed prior to WW2 and replace it all with bland, grey, drab and miserable concrete box edifices. 1960s architecture was everywhere, and the movement continued well into the 1970s, but I cannot recall anyone I knew who ever said their lives had been bettered by it all, and where is most of today's misery? Dead right, in all those 1960s and '70s concrete tower blocks. By the end of the '70s a new movement was apparent, and a lot of dark and gloomy Victorian and post Victorian buildings were being cleaned (mild acid and grit blasting) to reveal what they truly looked like. Gone was the grime and gloomy appearance to reveal bright and colourful brick and stonework. York railway station, Leeds City Hall and countless others all emerged from the scaffolding and shuttering to reveal a clean face that no one in living memory had seen before. It just needed time for the right people with the right vision, and the right technology to do the job effectively. Sadly for Nottingham Victoria, that all came too late. The same is true for many of our old buildings, and then of course, there was a lot of money changing hands, and a lot of people grew fat on the profits they made. Never have I heard anyone refer to the eradication of a railway station as being a "Godsend" - That's almost like saying we're done with you, be gone foul beast, completely forgetting that the railways were prime movers in the building of modern Britain. Also to be borne in mind was Ernest Marples and his "Roads Lobby" which sought to take trade away from the railways and put it onto the roads, even urging "Mobilisation Of The Masses" which sought to get everyone into personal transport (cars and motorcycles in the main), and we all know where that has left us today - In a brave new world, and all snarled up.
They were thinking, " let's build something which is used by 20 million people a year rather than something that is used by 20 thousand people a year."
I find this heart breaking as it was as if it was planned to be replaced by a huge shopping centre, the government really did a corker with allowing a railway murderer to be as cruel to the railways. From this, it shows how british engineering and construction of the station to its great glory, my question would be "what if the government didnt employ Dr Beeching, would we have all our lines remain or would their be station closures?" Nottingham was proud to have 2 stations and destined to 2 of the many London stations. Would of been great to have seen Nottingham Victoria, would of been interesting what current train operators would of stopped here Virgin? Chiltern? Maybe another Stagecoach? Who knows... Though great videography
With or without Beeching it was likely that the GCML was going to be closed. As soon as the LMR came into ownership of the line and Nottingham Victoria, the LMR was effectively at rivalry with itself with services sharing destinations. Keeping both lines open was uneconomic, with the Midland infrastructure being far superior and connected to a far wider network and list of destinations. This was not something the GCML could compete with. As soon as the Railways Act of 1923 came into effect, the GCML became nothing more than a secondary line to every operator that ran it and less of a priority. To the LNER and later Eastern Region, it was secondary to the ECML, and to the LMR it was secondary to the MML. With a lack of infrastructure and hardship of the ability to connect to other lines (let's not forget that in Nottingham alone, the GCML was 30ft higher than the Midland), the GCML was effectively destined for eventual betterment. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it was saved however. Beeching's deputy did admit that the closure of the GCML was the greatest mistake of the report, even though the reasons at the time were clear, it couldn't have been saved purely for foresight into what would be needed decades ahead of time. Would like to think Chiltern could have made something of it. They seem to care about the essence of a station's heritage. Connecting the GCML to Moor Street would have been something I'd love to have seen. :)
@@nottinghamvictoriastation331 The big mistake was transferring the station to the London Midland Region early in 1958. There was a vast amount of traffic passing through the station until then, even though not all the pre-war London trains had been reinstated. Even in 1963, traffic was queuing to pass through the tunnels at each end.
They did no better when they built the Broadmarsh shopping centre, what a right pigs ear that was. And as for the flats they built in Nottingham centre they're still a right eye sore.
It was LM Regions decision to run it down, just like it was the WR Regions in doing the same with the Somerset & Dorset. It was British Railways, under and the Government of the day. They were the owners. Such a shame so much lost.
British Railways adopted a "One city, one region," policy in the fifties, with the obvious exception of London. The London Midland Region gained control of the line early in 1958, but even for some years before that, it was running trains on behalf of the Eastern Region. It was fact that whenever a line was transferred from one region to another, the receiving region made every effort to get rid of its acquisition. Take, for instance, the Somerset and Dorset line, which changed hands at the same time as the Great Central. The Western Region had no use for its part. There used to be a regular fertiliser train from Avonmouth to Blandford Forum. The direct route was the S & D. The Western Region diverted this train to run via Bath, Salisbury, and Bournemouth. When the direct route from Salisbury to Bournemouth closed, the train ran via Southampton! In 1963, the Western Region took over the entire Southern system west of Salisbury. What happened? Trains to North Devon and Cornwall were curtailed at Exeter, and passengers for stations beyond had to change into high-density DMUs. Ilfracombe, Bude, and Padstow all lost their railways, whilst the Great Western branch to Newquay survived. At the same time, the Western Region surrendered its entire system north of Banbury to the London Midland Region. Within days, that region announced its intention to close Birmingham Snow Hill, once the Euston electrification was complete. Snow Hill had been resignalled only two years earlier. There was an extensive local network, which could never have been handled at New Street, most of which was withdrawn.
Both these lines suffered because they were transferred from one region to another, under BR's "one city, one region" policy. The Great Central was historically LNER, and was part of the Eastern Region on nationalisation. In 1958, most of the line was transferred to the London Midland Region, who had no use for the line. Most of the GC traffic was not even transferred to other routes; it was withdrawn completely. The Manchester to Woodhead section had by then been transferred to the LM Region, followed by the section south from Heath Junction, where the Chesterfield loop diverged. Marylebone Station and its approaches were transferred to the Western Region. The London GC shed at Neasden, originally part of the Eastern Region, later received a London Midland Region code, but was administered by the Western Region! The Somerset and Dorset was less chaotic; the Bristol-Bath-Templecombe section was administered by the LMS after 1930, and by the London Midland Region from 1948. Fate struck early in 1958. On the same day that the GC was transferred to the LMR, the northern end of the S&D was transferred to the Western Region. That region had no use for the line. The section south from Templecombe remained under Southern Region control. The crunch came at the end of the summer of 1962. From then on, there would be no more long-distance trains to Bournemouth, the lifeblood of the line. All that remained was a local service, serving small towns only, and freight traffic had dwindled. The service which existed in the two months prior to closure in March 1966 was farcical, and could hardly have been profitable. In the early seventies, Bristol to Bournemouth was the most profitable coach service in the country not serving London. The S&D surely could have been saved if managed properly.
I remember Nottingham Victoria Station and the Moulin Rouge cinema not far away. I recall the old market too with its beautiful ironwork. Nottingham was a lovely city, the Queen of the Midlands. Now it's a shithole that is best avoided.
The shopping centre is used by 20 million people a year. Victoria station was used by almost nobody. A trickle of passengers a day. It is fitting that the Station was demolished and replaced by something useful.
@@majorberk4647 Actually listing is done on a National level by the deosrtment of the Secretary of State of culture, media, and sport. Or by Historic England in the case of parks and monuments. There are national guidelines and guidance, so nothing to do with Nottingham itself.
@@PreservationEnthusiast shame they couldn’t have repurposed more of the building in a similar way to Central Station in Manchester for example which i think the council chose to invest in .
@@majorberk4647 GMex or whatever they call it now is a good example of great reuse of a structure, but Nottingham Victoria platform canopy was not attractive and set in a vast low level hole. It would have been difficult to repurpose in the same useful way as GMex.
Steamloco scrapper does not realise that the station WAS well used until the London Midland Region withdrew the London-Manchester trains at the beginning of 1960. Until then the GC offered a better service to London than the Midland. There were major protests at the decision to withdraw the main line service and replace them with three trains to London taking nearly three hours. Steamloco scrapper obviously could not care less. Steamloco scrapper also hates duplicated facilities; he is not aware that the when the Victoria Centre was opened, the Broad Marsh centre was already there.
A master piece which survived war, and yet destroyed by fools for a shopping centre, with the help of labour will also be destroyed criminals all off them.
State ... Corporate vandalism. I am old enough to have travelled from Victoria station to St Pancras on many occasions 😢 Think how much traffic it would carry today running up the spine of the country?
They could have build over the lines and kept the station, and Notts council could of bought The City of Nottingham steam locomotive for £2500, they said they could not afford it,look how they waste money criminal
Always wondered why they didn’t ’New Street’ style and build a smaller Broadmarsh style shopping centre over the top of Victoria and build what became Victoria Centre with the flats and everything down on the Broadmarsh site. The alignment of the Great Central at least down as far as Aylesbury would have been prime for electrification and high speed 125-140mph as an alternative to the shambles HS2 has become. And with a few lines comes off to Birmingham at Rugby etc ideal. And a new alignment and terminal at London.
The writing was on the wall when the tories had earmarked the lot for closure we are luck to have any rail network at all as am sure Marples would have killed it all off if he could have.
@@damiendye6623 is that what your cyrstal ball say's?? stick to the facts ....and remember the tories stopped the madness in 1970 when heath got in, now what?
Dont forgot that it was the 'Conservatives' who started the wanton destruction of our railways - Marples, Beeching. Check the history books for yourself.
@@22whizzo56 british rail could not even tell you how many people it employed, something had to be done.Beeching was set on to do a report which he did as chairman . when complete no real action was took, enter labour,1965. they did not close all of beechings lines but they did closed 100's of miles not in the report, After the cull labour than gave beeching an award, liebour not tory, LABOUR closed 99% of the lines, liebour closed all the pits in the 60's and saved none in the 90's .liebour did not start the NHS either. You my friend need to check history
@@bobtudbury8505 You, my friend, need to take off your biased blinkers, go back to school & take a course in history. In particular, the history of Britain in the 1960s & 1970s.
So so depressing😢 why couldent have been east midlands Station. Rubbish at the side of these perfectly engineered station. Iconic to nottingham. Took one idiot with no thought for the people of nottingham just the pocket of the govermant at that time 😢😢
How can you , !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! abase, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, with thy granger ,of this stunningly outstanding work of( ART) in (brick )(stone )( cast iron) , you Morrons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Just one word describes the closure of such a wonderful station, criminal. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, but it wasn't needed any more. Sad, I know, but it was time of huge cuts in the railways and the GCR main line to London was surplus to requirements.
This saddens my heart the good days are gone and never coming back.
Even as a 24 year old born and raised in Nottingham I wish I could have been alive to see such a magnificent station. Really sad that this beauty was closed in favour of a shopping centre. Railways run in my family and it's sad to see the collapse of the GCR and the GNR.
The Station had a handful of passengers whereas the Victoria Centre gets 20 million visitors a year. We can't afford to have redundant infrastructure occupying prime sites, nor afford to keep it running making huge losses, just for the titillation of a few railway buffs. We have to move with the times and give the majority more useful buildings.
@@PreservationEnthusiast yeah it was only like that because it was deliberately rand down. The station that should have gone was Nottingham midland as the gcr was a superior line.
@@damiendye6623 No, nobody was using the GCR. It was a useless duplicate line. It needed to be smashed apart, demolished, and the land repurposed. This is exactly what happend.
The Midland Station is a fine station it is Grade 2* listed.
@@PreservationEnthusiast really thats your point of view and by your handle your clearly anti railway, this line has plenty of traffic and was prime for freight which was the primary use.
It was run down deliberately but yet the mml which wasnt aligned for cross country surviced even though its a duplicate of the east coast mainline is still around although curtailed.
The gcr provided all the cross country routes which today go the long way around, this line is badly needed along with the didcot newbury and winchester for a backbone for traffic from southampton that blocks the mainlines to london.
@@damiendye6623 The line south of Nottingham was kept open for freight for a while. They never really made a go of it. And when you say it was "run down" they were still providing trains, but people didn't care to use them.
The Victoria Centre gets more visitors, 20 million a year, than Victoria station ever got.
Also you say I am anti railway... not true at all. Railways are the most efficient means of transport per passenger mile. I am all for efficient transport using non polluting non fossil fuel power such as electricity from renewable resource and hydrogen power.
It breaks my heart seeing that beautiful building being destroyed. They should have kept the facade and incorporated it into the victoria centre.
I totally agree....
There's no way I could have sent the wrecking ball into that.
Heartbreaking to see them killing one of the finest stations ever built, then building a concrete eyesore in it's place.
Total agreement.........
You have to remember in post-war Britain modernity came first. There was little room for sentiment among city planners whose task was to modernise cities.
@@christopherbusby1726 What a biased video. It was a white elephant station on a white elephant line. Beeching was correct to close the line. Now there is a very nice and well used shopping centre.
Oh, it’s you again. With all that money you have from “Scrapping locomotives and stations” why don’t you buy yourself a life and stop wasting your time pestering railfans like myself?
@@PreservationEnthusiast I'm guessing you don't live in Nottingham!
I'm watching this from Australia . When I was a teenager I lived in Grantham and spent hours on Nottingham Victoria trainspotting . Didn't know how lucky I was.
Thanks. regards Stephen Wallwork.
very very good thanks to all involved in this, thanks again
I remember standing on the top floor of the then new car park opposite during demolition and thinking one day we will need this railway, how true fast forward 50 odd years! It was the 1960's though and we were gripped with the knock down the old and rebuild in concrete mania.
Poignant memories. Watching the wrecking ball destroy our heritage. Could almost still smell the smoke steam and oil while trainspotting. How could we have allowed 46251 to be scrapped just months after it was filmed on that RCTS trip. If only the trackbed had been preserved. Thanks for posting. Fortunate are we to at least remember Vic Station.
Greetings from an American rail enthusiast. I understand the desire not to get too worked up about the demolition of Nottingham Victoria but viewing this from across the pond makes me feel a bit like Treebeard in the Two Towers: "Saruman! The wizard should know better!"
Great video! Rather sad to watch. I live in the vic centre with all that history beneath me. I think before the Victoria railway station, it was the union workhouse which is even sadder to know.
People were so much happier in those days of steam and just simplicity.
Once the envy of the world and inventor of the railway revolution during the Victorian era. Watching the last years of Nottingham’s Victoria station and its final closure in 1967, it's so heartbreaking to see the destruction of the Station, especially the wrecking ball, such a terrible shame.
I think it's great to see the clock tower has survived, but why did they decide to keep it and not demolish it completely?
They occasionally left a bit of a station or other railway building as a piss take. Same with collieries, the favourite thing was to leave the pit head winding
wheels at the entrance to the industrial estate that is built on the site of the mine.
The music makes it sad and it's sad to see how disgraceful of what buildings they replaced it with which today makes the clock tower surrounded by this terrible 1970's concrete structures, the station should've deserved better than this
The only railway in Britain built to Continental Load Gauge Standard and with only one Level Crossing between Sheffield and London. The wrong decision to not only close this wonderfully designed railway and then admit it only a few years later is an absolute testimony to short-sightedness. The Vic was my educational playground until i was nearly 12 years old. 😔 Nigel Dawson
It WASN'T built to "continental" loading gauge. Only UK sized trains could ever use it.
You are wrong - it was built to continental gauge because they had visions of running trains through a channel tunnel when the GCR was being built.@@leeosborne3793
Absolute vandalism by a nasty Tory money hungry self- centered Tory government
What a magnificent building, so sad to see it being torn apart.
It was quite horrific to watch a Victorian building being smashed up, how times have changed, these days we have a greater appreciation for historic buildings.
I enjoyed seeing the station getting smashed up. The opinion was that is was a symbol of the Great Central and the memory of such a bad underused line should be erased as far as possible.
@@PreservationEnthusiast A few people share that opinion and didn’t see the point in the line as it duplicated almost exactly another line of a competitor, BUT at the same time it provided lots of people with work, some places got stations where otherwise they wouldn’t have.
Pointless or not Nottingham Central station was far nicer a building than the faceless monolith that stands today.
@@willswheels283 From what you are saying it seems we should pay for people to have jobs out of the public purse just to keep them busy. Regardless of how many people are using the services they provide. That sounds a recipe for economic disaster to me. BR was losing millions pre Beeching. Much of this wastage was later cut out.
As for the building, I would rather have a building that is used rather than derelict wasteland with debatedly better aesthetics. The Victoria centre is used by 20 million people a year rather than the handful that used Victoria Station.
@@PreservationEnthusiast And from what you are saying you want an argument…well I’m not giving you the pleasure sir!
All I meant was that it was sad to see a nice building wasted for the sake of a square ugly shopping centre.
These days it would not have been allowed to be bulldozed completely, but incorporated into a useful purpose.
Enough said from me.
@@willswheels283 *Smash Victoria Station.* Death to the GCR!
Travelled to Fareham changing at Basingstoke when I was a child to see my grandparents from Nottingham Victoria on a few occasions in the early sixties. Victoria made the Midland Station look like a regional station. No comparison. The architecture was of the best of the Victorian era. It's such a shame.
If you read the George Dow incredible volumes of the history and infrastructure of the Great Central Railway it is specifically mentioned that the line was built to Continental Load Gauge in the hope that this would be an absolute genius of forethought in its construction. Only British loaded trains were ever used but the facility was in place should the dream of the Great Central using their innovative engineering being used for that purpose ever be fulfilled.
Sad beyond words.......
Very good but sad, thanks.
I was taken by the wide diesel train that pulled in. This would have been our HS2 now... Failing to safeguard old routes is the biggest crime.
Ahhh, this line was effectively HS1, HS1 as we know it would have been HS2 unless it had been built earlier as intended. 😊
A superb station with 2 wide through island platforms.
there would have been a way to reuse the building , sadly nottingham council is incompitent when it comes to planning and preserving buildings
Very interesting collection of films. Architecturally, Nottingham Victoria was equal to London Marylebone as GCR's greatest station. A great pity it closed, but for many years BR had managed decline of the GCR as a 'duplicate route' in order to prioritise investment in (in this case) the Midland Main Line instead.
The dreadful decision to wreck the whole lot except for the clock tower was of course nothing to do with BR. In the context of those times, it's little surprise that town planners and developers briefed architects to come up with a bold showpiece 'statement' for the city centre. A generation or two on, the outcome might have been to repurpose the fabric of the station minus just the ugliest/ grubbiest bits - rather like Manchester Central - who knows?
wow what an amazing building, such a shame all that was destroyed
The only station in Britain with a turntable at both ends ,victim of pure vandalism, so 😥
There was a good reason for this. Many trains changed locos there, but there were no depots in the vicinity. The Great Central did have one to the south, between the station and the crossing of the Trent, but Nottingham City Council imposed very high business rates, so the Great Central built a new depot at Annesley, some seven miles north. With the tunnels being heavily used, even after the Beeching report of 1963, there were few spare light engine paths, so locos were turned in the station, and possibly received minor servicing from time to time. That explains why there were so many non-platform tracks for storing locos, rolling stock, etc.
@@andrewtaylor5984 a lot of the locos were off colwick for local traffic ,Annesley had locos mainly used for the semi fast to
Marylebone Scots,jubes,brits and black 5s..there was also 9fs on the
windcutters,I lived near that route so I know a lot about it
I had not forgotten Colwick. I have heard that after the regional boundary changes of 1958, Annesley and Colwick did not always see eye to eye. Were the three trains to London and return workings the only regular passenger turns from Annesley? Colwick did have local passenger workings until the GC was run down, but then took over the London trains at the beginning of 1966, when Annesley closed. I gather that the transfer of Colwick to the LM Region, was not well received, as many enginemen still there had been LNER employees, and regarded LMS stock as inferior. N.B. I have never lived in the area, but I have been trying to reconstruct, for a non-railway enthusiast, the downfall of the line. I am reasonably certain that if the line had remained under ER control, it would have remained open. All that was needed was for regional managers to get their heads together and co-ordinate operations.
Swift. He should have been very swiftly given his marching orders. What an appalling abomination of a "replacement" for the magnificent Victoria station . . . .
What on earth were the planners and the architects thinking?
Brown envelopes!!
This was the "Brave New World" which was going sweep away everything that existed prior to WW2 and replace it all with bland, grey, drab and miserable concrete box edifices. 1960s architecture was everywhere, and the movement continued well into the 1970s, but I cannot recall anyone I knew who ever said their lives had been bettered by it all, and where is most of today's misery? Dead right, in all those 1960s and '70s concrete tower blocks.
By the end of the '70s a new movement was apparent, and a lot of dark and gloomy Victorian and post Victorian buildings were being cleaned (mild acid and grit blasting) to reveal what they truly looked like. Gone was the grime and gloomy appearance to reveal bright and colourful brick and stonework. York railway station, Leeds City Hall and countless others all emerged from the scaffolding and shuttering to reveal a clean face that no one in living memory had seen before. It just needed time for the right people with the right vision, and the right technology to do the job effectively. Sadly for Nottingham Victoria, that all came too late. The same is true for many of our old buildings, and then of course, there was a lot of money changing hands, and a lot of people grew fat on the profits they made. Never have I heard anyone refer to the eradication of a railway station as being a "Godsend" - That's almost like saying we're done with you, be gone foul beast, completely forgetting that the railways were prime movers in the building of modern Britain.
Also to be borne in mind was Ernest Marples and his "Roads Lobby" which sought to take trade away from the railways and put it onto the roads, even urging "Mobilisation Of The Masses" which sought to get everyone into personal transport (cars and motorcycles in the main), and we all know where that has left us today - In a brave new world, and all snarled up.
They were thinking, " let's build something which is used by 20 million people a year rather than something that is used by 20 thousand people a year."
That is heartbreaking 😢
What was the point of keeping the tower? It hardly fits in to the new construction and can't even be considered as a homage to what was there before.
I’ve felt that way …
I find this heart breaking as it was as if it was planned to be replaced by a huge shopping centre, the government really did a corker with allowing a railway murderer to be as cruel to the railways. From this, it shows how british engineering and construction of the station to its great glory, my question would be "what if the government didnt employ Dr Beeching, would we have all our lines remain or would their be station closures?" Nottingham was proud to have 2 stations and destined to 2 of the many London stations. Would of been great to have seen Nottingham Victoria, would of been interesting what current train operators would of stopped here Virgin? Chiltern? Maybe another Stagecoach? Who knows... Though great videography
With or without Beeching it was likely that the GCML was going to be closed. As soon as the LMR came into ownership of the line and Nottingham Victoria, the LMR was effectively at rivalry with itself with services sharing destinations. Keeping both lines open was uneconomic, with the Midland infrastructure being far superior and connected to a far wider network and list of destinations. This was not something the GCML could compete with. As soon as the Railways Act of 1923 came into effect, the GCML became nothing more than a secondary line to every operator that ran it and less of a priority. To the LNER and later Eastern Region, it was secondary to the ECML, and to the LMR it was secondary to the MML. With a lack of infrastructure and hardship of the ability to connect to other lines (let's not forget that in Nottingham alone, the GCML was 30ft higher than the Midland), the GCML was effectively destined for eventual betterment. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it was saved however. Beeching's deputy did admit that the closure of the GCML was the greatest mistake of the report, even though the reasons at the time were clear, it couldn't have been saved purely for foresight into what would be needed decades ahead of time. Would like to think Chiltern could have made something of it. They seem to care about the essence of a station's heritage. Connecting the GCML to Moor Street would have been something I'd love to have seen. :)
@@nottinghamvictoriastation331 The big mistake was transferring the station to the London Midland Region early in 1958. There was a vast amount of traffic passing through the station until then, even though not all the pre-war London trains had been reinstated. Even in 1963, traffic was queuing to pass through the tunnels at each end.
They did no better when they built the Broadmarsh shopping centre, what a right pigs ear that was. And as for the flats they built in Nottingham centre they're still a right eye sore.
Nottingham! Wow! Tried to take us off the map ! We will survive! Rebellion city #1
💪💪💯💯
It was LM Regions decision to run it down, just like it was the WR Regions in doing the same with the Somerset & Dorset. It was British Railways, under and the Government of the day. They were the owners. Such a shame so much lost.
British Railways adopted a "One city, one region," policy in the fifties, with the obvious exception of London. The London Midland Region gained control of the line early in 1958, but even for some years before that, it was running trains on behalf of the Eastern Region. It was fact that whenever a line was transferred from one region to another, the receiving region made every effort to get rid of its acquisition. Take, for instance, the Somerset and Dorset line, which changed hands at the same time as the Great Central. The Western Region had no use for its part. There used to be a regular fertiliser train from Avonmouth to Blandford Forum. The direct route was the S & D. The Western Region diverted this train to run via Bath, Salisbury, and Bournemouth. When the direct route from Salisbury to Bournemouth closed, the train ran via Southampton! In 1963, the Western Region took over the entire Southern system west of Salisbury. What happened? Trains to North Devon and Cornwall were curtailed at Exeter, and passengers for stations beyond had to change into high-density DMUs. Ilfracombe, Bude, and Padstow all lost their railways, whilst the Great Western branch to Newquay survived. At the same time, the Western Region surrendered its entire system north of Banbury to the London Midland Region. Within days, that region announced its intention to close Birmingham Snow Hill, once the Euston electrification was complete. Snow Hill had been resignalled only two years earlier. There was an extensive local network, which could never have been handled at New Street, most of which was withdrawn.
Both these lines suffered because they were transferred from one region to another, under BR's "one city, one region" policy. The Great Central was historically LNER, and was part of the Eastern Region on nationalisation. In 1958, most of the line was transferred to the London Midland Region, who had no use for the line. Most of the GC traffic was not even transferred to other routes; it was withdrawn completely. The Manchester to Woodhead section had by then been transferred to the LM Region, followed by the section south from Heath Junction, where the Chesterfield loop diverged. Marylebone Station and its approaches were transferred to the Western Region. The London GC shed at Neasden, originally part of the Eastern Region, later received a London Midland Region code, but was administered by the Western Region! The Somerset and Dorset was less chaotic; the Bristol-Bath-Templecombe section was administered by the LMS after 1930, and by the London Midland Region from 1948. Fate struck early in 1958. On the same day that the GC was transferred to the LMR, the northern end of the S&D was transferred to the Western Region. That region had no use for the line. The section south from Templecombe remained under Southern Region control. The crunch came at the end of the summer of 1962. From then on, there would be no more long-distance trains to Bournemouth, the lifeblood of the line. All that remained was a local service, serving small towns only, and freight traffic had dwindled. The service which existed in the two months prior to closure in March 1966 was farcical, and could hardly have been profitable. In the early seventies, Bristol to Bournemouth was the most profitable coach service in the country not serving London. The S&D surely could have been saved if managed properly.
@@andrewtaylor5984 Correct
Each year that passes there’s a growing consensus that shutting the GC ‘London Extension’ was a mistake
No, there isn't. It wasn't a mistake. It was never needed in the first place.
@ it would have been a valuable mainly freight route taking pressure off the WCML
Weren't those jubilee locos handsome from any angle
Desecration.
Presumably they designed those tower blocks with an etch a sketch
I remember Nottingham Victoria Station and the Moulin Rouge cinema not far away. I recall the old market too with its beautiful ironwork. Nottingham was a lovely city, the Queen of the Midlands. Now it's a shithole that is best avoided.
Sad for the lost past 😢
Another lovely station replaced by a soulless prefabricated eyesore
The shopping centre is used by 20 million people a year. Victoria station was used by almost nobody. A trickle of passengers a day.
It is fitting that the Station was demolished and replaced by something useful.
@@PreservationEnthusiast standards are low in Nottingham Clearly
@@majorberk4647 Actually listing is done on a National level by the deosrtment of the Secretary of State of culture, media, and sport. Or by Historic England in the case of parks and monuments. There are national guidelines and guidance, so nothing to do with Nottingham itself.
@@PreservationEnthusiast shame they couldn’t have repurposed more of the building in a similar way to Central Station in Manchester for example which i think the council chose to invest in .
@@majorberk4647 GMex or whatever they call it now is a good example of great reuse of a structure, but Nottingham Victoria platform canopy was not attractive and set in a vast low level hole. It would have been difficult to repurpose in the same useful way as GMex.
when nottingham close victoria station they did not move forward they moved backwards , has can be seen today gridlocked streets
Steamloco scrapper does not realise that the station WAS well used until the London Midland Region withdrew the London-Manchester trains at the beginning of 1960. Until then the GC offered a better service to London than the Midland. There were major protests at the decision to withdraw the main line service and replace them with three trains to London taking nearly three hours. Steamloco scrapper obviously could not care less. Steamloco scrapper also hates duplicated facilities; he is not aware that the when the Victoria Centre was opened, the Broad Marsh centre was already there.
If they had only kept the facade along with the clock tower.
He can't look people in the eye. Brown envelope anyone?
Sad days for Nottingham, and England, pure evil destruction
This line would have been very useful now. Nottingham Victoria was right in the centre of the city. Corporate vandalism.
A master piece which survived war, and yet destroyed by fools for a shopping centre, with the help of labour will also be destroyed criminals all off them.
Should of left the hole there
State ... Corporate vandalism. I am old enough to have travelled from Victoria station to St Pancras on many occasions 😢 Think how much traffic it would carry today running up the spine of the country?
Virtually none. It was always a duplicate railway, it was never needed in the first place.
They could have build over the lines and kept the station, and Notts council could of bought The City of Nottingham steam locomotive for £2500, they said they could not afford it,look how they waste money criminal
Always wondered why they didn’t ’New Street’ style and build a smaller Broadmarsh style shopping centre over the top of Victoria and build what became Victoria Centre with the flats and everything down on the Broadmarsh site. The alignment of the Great Central at least down as far as Aylesbury would have been prime for electrification and high speed 125-140mph as an alternative to the shambles HS2 has become. And with a few lines comes off to Birmingham at Rugby etc ideal. And a new alignment and terminal at London.
disgusting . labour closed all these lines and pits in the 60's . so much for the workers
The writing was on the wall when the tories had earmarked the lot for closure we are luck to have any rail network at all as am sure Marples would have killed it all off if he could have.
@@damiendye6623 is that what your cyrstal ball say's?? stick to the facts ....and remember the tories stopped the madness in 1970 when heath got in, now what?
Dont forgot that it was the 'Conservatives' who started the wanton destruction of our railways - Marples, Beeching.
Check the history books for yourself.
@@22whizzo56 british rail could not even tell you how many people it employed, something had to be done.Beeching was set on to do a report which he did as chairman . when complete no real action was took, enter labour,1965. they did not close all of beechings lines but they did closed 100's of miles not in the report, After the cull labour than gave beeching an award, liebour not tory, LABOUR closed 99% of the lines, liebour closed all the pits in the 60's and saved none in the 90's .liebour did not start the NHS either. You my friend need to check history
@@bobtudbury8505 You, my friend, need to take off your biased blinkers, go back to school & take a course in history.
In particular, the history of Britain in the 1960s & 1970s.
they didnt even have the decency to take the rubble by train!
So so depressing😢 why couldent have been east midlands Station. Rubbish at the side of these perfectly engineered station. Iconic to nottingham. Took one idiot with no thought for the people of nottingham just the pocket of the govermant at that time 😢😢
Sacrilege…😢
How can you , !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! abase, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, with thy granger ,of this stunningly outstanding work of( ART) in (brick )(stone )( cast iron) , you Morrons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.