Many years ago TA was the first model that was ever presented to me when I began studying counselling (part of my post-graduate training as a Health Visitor in the UK). It has been probably one of the most useful models I have come across, and I still sing the praises of this concept that so ably simplifies the complex interactions we find ourselves in when trying to communicate. Of course it was only the beginning, but for me a great place to start.
@@johnathanparker2182 I'm a fan of Carl Rogers....The person centred approach. Self actualisation theory and self realisation. A personal journey of discovery with guidance and empathy to explore potentially risky and unsafe territory.
@OatSharpener Thanks. TA's metaphors've transformed my relationship into a vastly drama-free zone. I'll admit drama used to feel 'exhilarating' to a degree - that heightened state, with more at stake. But the stuff it blocked - the genuine intimacy, fun, love, laughter - that's since come through shows the thinness of drama like nothing else.
What I like about TA, is that it is a simple enough theory that's accessible to ordinary people who are not formal students of psychology, yet have an interest in relationship dynamics. I'm loving your series on this compelling subject!
@foolnwhat Something I hoped would come through in this video in particular is the value the positive aspects of controlling, nurturing, adapted and free styles of being. If we were Adult all the time, we'd be missing out on so much.
This is an old comment but thank you for this, I was feeling like perhaps those states weren't the best response compared to adult. But yes, everything in a case by case basis, it's more important to be aware, considerate and healthy I guess.
You have put together a really good way of teaching TA. I hope you won't mind if I say one or two things about the content. The difficulty with this teaching on ego states is that the Structural Parent and Child ego states are past. Current thinking is that Adult is Integrating Adult. This is where we integrate the best from our parents and significant others or where from our own childhood. The Integrating Adult is here and now. Therefore if we are here and now we will be in a mindful place and can decide how to act and what behaviour we need to take. When we are not mindful we can move into a regressed state and this is unhelpful for effective communication. Some people call the model which has Critical and Nurturing etc. as behaviours the Functional Model because this is how we function. We (Mountain Associates) have developed the OK Modes model which is based on the OK Corral. This clearly delineates the Structural Ego State model from the Functional Model as ours replaces the latter. In the old model of Functional Ego state it was unclear why, when Parent and Child are historical, we would want to go into those to deal with communication? We only do this if we are in script. When in Integrating Adult we are able to deal in the here and now and act appropriately. We cannot actually tell if someone is in Structural Parent or Child unless we do four types of diagnosis and we often don't have contract for this. In the work place it's not very appropriate to ask someone if this is how they did it as a child or how their parents did it! Therefore using the OK Modes model is more appropriate as we only work on two assessments: social and behavioural. For further explanation of the OK Modes model just go to our website and look under TA - though these are text descriptions and not excellently presented teaches like these.
Great Vid, interesting idea about unplugging. I often contemplate becoming a recluse as it seems the world and the people in it run on games. It seems to be the way to make and keep friendships, by being willing to play anothers games !
I really like this one best. It's helped me realize how I get myself caught up in these games in my own personal life. And now I realize sometimes I'm the one starting games and I don't really want to subject people I love to things that are such a waste of our time, life's short enough. But I've been really analyzing my own behavior lately and am learning much more about what's going on below the surface here. Really appreciate this whole series, Thanks!!!
@kendrawhisp The video isn't saying these are always the dynamics in a scenario where A constantly rejects B's 'help'. The video is just showing an example of when it is. Let's face it, sometimes B will hit on the solution. Sometimes A will bring B up to speed on what they've already tried. But when it's a constant pattern between two people, the video suggests looking at whether a game's being played.
I know this is an old vid, but I just discovered this channel and am devouring every video. It informs so many things I knew parts of with new knowledge and makes them more easily understood and conveyed, but also informs me of many things I hadn't heard of. Great all around. For example, in his Infantilization vid (I saw that and his attacking ideas vids first before diving in), both my girlfriend and I saw things that our parents had done/still do, her far more than I. But at the same time he mentioned "parentalization", but only in passing. Thinking about what that might mean, it occurred to me that she also does sometimes get thrust into the parent role, either because hers are too incompetent or unwilling to do adult things that need to be done, especially in their finances. I was confused at first how they could infantilize and parentalize at the same time...until I started watching his TA vids, and understanding the switching between ego states (at least that's what I assume is happening, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning). And now the 2nd vid above is showing me more on that, in a scary way. Not only do I think her mother switches between ego states, thus explaining the variations in behavior, but he showed how both sides can be used in a positive or negative way...and I think her mother uses the negative way of both sides of both parent and child. The worst way to handle a situation is usually what happens, and I'm beginning to understand why more deeply than just "She's a narcissist". Thanks for your easily understandable explanations, and keep up the great work.
It’s really useful to have things I kind of hashed out by myself over a long time clarified like this. Also interesting to recognize the life positions of a lot of people I’m close with suddenly and realize ways that makes sense of what seems like sudden and confusing personality changes… like people in an arrogant position tend to stick to their guns, people in a futile position will always wind up on the victim side even if it means going hard in the opposite direction of previous stances they held, people in a depressive position like me may change positions a lot to conform with the latest information they’ve gained but only after grappling with it and usually fail to apply it to themselves. I’m OK, You’re OK position is a more balanced state of being since the few people I see who are there, are open to change but never dramatically, and aren’t prone to self-destructive behaviors as a result of compliance.
Theramin... Each of these videos are eye opening for me in MANY relationships. From casual acquaintances, to my relationship with my parents and significant others, even to my peers, elders, and teachers. Thank you.
@ChaoticSupernova I kind of structured the series on the hoof as I was filling in the video description to the trailer - just started writing the tltes for TA videos I hadn't done but wanted to do. The first three were planned, then two extra. But people'll be bloody sick of TA if I go on after that! ;8)
Man....i've been in so many arguements and fights because i understood what was going on and i remained in the Adult state. Didn't know this entire proccess had a name. It can be really tiring seeing right through this while the other party keeps leeching energy. Either that or my autism doesn't care about other people's emotional well being.
@FilthyIcon Thanks Filthy. ;8) I do want to keep a fairly steady momentum with the series. Next episode'll have a slightly bigger gap before uploading due to time factors this coming week.
Very well done. It`s interesting how by spending a bit of time working on yourself you can see your own faults and those in others as well. BUT the important thing is to realize that we all have issues and no to take it so personally; often times they aren`t doing it on purpose and don`t even realize what they are doing. That is what helps me. Another great video. Cheers! Papa
@CounsellingResource Thank you. I think TA has some incredibly valuable thinking tools to offer - even when I'm not using TA terms explicitly with clients, it informs my relationship dynamic/responses hugely.
@kendrawhisp 'if i asked someone to help me, and they said well what do you think you should do, id say i dont have a scoobies, what do you think' -And I'd say, 'I don't know'. If you wanted my help, I'd expect you to give me at least some input on what you'd already tried, etc. Without that I'm in danger of wasting my time going through a ton of Yes, buts.
I don't know how good a model TA is for normal interactions, but it is a great model for Sitcom plots. I can think of several episodes of several shows where the plot is that there is a parallel transaction going on that one party does not enjoy, and in the end it is resolved via a split transaction.
Can't tell you how much this has helped me. Thank you so much for putting these videos up. Plus it's no hardship to listen to such a lovely voice ;-) Thanks again.
though people are entitled to their opinion, through my experience, I think that "i don't like that painting" and statements like it can also be the starting points of games or discounts. criticism of art is a slippery one for sure though. I have had friends say statements that are seemingly less harmless than that but because I have been in their games before and had time to reflect, I catch them, call them out and the game ends up being diffused.
lowlowseesee Yes, I think as we get to know people well, we often get to know the 'preludes' to their games - the discount hasn't come yet, but it's just round the corner. There's a person in my life who often begins games by wandering down memory lane, inviting me to accompany them into their nostalgia - then a little ways down the path comes the discount. As you point out, when we pick up on these patterns, our eyes are open much sooner in the exchange.
TheraminTrees exactly. especially since as you mentioned in the vid, the exchanges happen so fast. I always have the best success in getting someone to reconsider an idea or change their mind, when I get to know them. sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes years. thanks for taking the time to reply my friend, hope all is well.
TheraminTrees exactly. especially since as you mentioned in the vid, the exchanges happen so fast. I always have the best success in getting someone to reconsider an idea or change their mind, when I get to know them. sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes years. thanks for taking the time to reply my friend, hope all is well.
This is amazing, and I find it extremely fascinating. I have a very poor relationship with my older sister. It seems to me that every time we are in each other's company for more than an hour or so, each of us ends up misunderstanding the other, perceiving a grievous insult, and becoming quite upset. Each of us feels certain that the one of us is being completely reasonable, while the other is being unbelievably difficult. The fact that our perceptions are so mirrored makes it hard to solve!
@tinySpectacle 'TA also seems like it might be a good way to reveal the psychology of characters in fiction.' -Hey Lo ;8) I thought I'd replied to this! I wanted to say I can completely see the value to literature that you highlight - a way of analysing characters/interactions from the readers' point of view, as well as constructing them from the writers' side. As you say, especially with the split gamey stuff and those juicy ulterior motives.
@ZebaSzp Absolutely - another kind of Switch! In theory any combination of V, P and R Switches are possible. Like A rescuing B, feeling sorry for them going to all that fruitless effort: 'Aw .... well, you tried.'
@Hythloday71 'It seems to be the way to make and keep friendships, by being willing to play anothers games!' -I think there's a lot of truth to that. And it would be interesting to see correlations between particular games and particular people who play them in one's life. TA's transformed some personal relationships that where previously destructive. But also led to a lot of unplugging from intractable game-playing.
I had an interaction with someone who, when they seemed to be giving up on trying to defend their claim, gave me an "I'm sure you're a real smart fella (but)" sort of line. Nevermind that we were probably in some game in the discussion already, but that line made me aware of that slippery feel that I think you were talking about.
I see a lot of comments who find this helpful because it gives them some textbook answer for why other people in their lives are so difficult. Not a lot in the way of people self-reflecting, but I guess it's a human compulsion to put down others for the sake of making yourself feel better.
@Fiskepudding127 There was a game listed in "Games People Play" by Eric Berne called "I was only trying to help" Where someone's advice is continually rejected and the payoff is a feeling of bewilderment at the ingratitude of the person on the receiving end of the advice. It is very possible that your friend is playing "yes but". The exit listed in the book for "yes but" is "That is a tough one, what do you think you should do?" but also states that for the most part the game is harmless.
I like these videos and channel. I find TA (and your presentation of it) rather valuable, informative, effective, and mutually enhancing. Kudos. Funny really how many views and subscribers this channel has in comparison to those with millions. - "[look at a Society's art and you'll see its popularly held beliefs and values.]" [ paraphrased, someone other than me said that first. ]
I've seen this sort of thing with many people. You get those who either try to take responsibility for absolutely everything, and people who try to pawn responsibility for things on to you at every opportunity.They have tricks they employ to get that result, most of which could be seen as attempts to affirm parent or child status respectively. Parent and child seem to correspond to dominant/submissive roles, too, which is the way I always thought about it before I saw your first vid on TA..
Helped me learn my psychology lessons better. There are lot of negative parenting figures around, right from childhood to this stage of life, at home and workplace. We need to learn to deal with them by reaching the adult stage ( by being firm, but not agressive or exploitatory), unlike our persecutors. Sometimes we have to take out the positive nurturing parent in us.
Ye, I can see that analogy. And I guess a further analogy with that movie comes in the idea of being caught in a dream within a dream - so that one should be wary of escaping one game only to find oneself in another.
Meh... I'm pretty sure if I was having a conversation and I said "I THINK WE'RE IN A GAME" they'de probably think I was mental. "WE HAVE TO DEFEAT THE GAME MASTER!" Other than that, though, interestng stuff. What I was wondering, though, is if there is a way to come back from the final response in that game, ie. "You're a great help!" "Shutup you idiot"
Very interesting. Though my experience with the 'Why don't you... / Yes, but...' game is that, I as the 'Yes, but...'-Person just want to vent and complain and have someone tell me 'Well, that certainly sucks!/I feel ya!' until I've processed my frustration and am ready to actually look for solutions. It's hard - for me, too - not to fall right into solution seeking when others complain to you, but with practice I'm getting better at just vibing with the other person until they actually directly ask me to help them find a solution, or I ask: 'So, do you know what to do about it yet?' We often forget that feelings take time and that it's okay to sit with them for a while instead of instantly trying to 'solve' them.
Offering one's personal skills to the world at large - a painting, a project at work, etc. - without /demanding/ for approval comes to mind. I've never taken a psychology course in my life, though, so there are probably other things I haven't thought of.
@porrophagus It could get immobilising couldn't it - the potential for endless analysis. Speaking personally, I've found it's come naturally with experience/practice. Like juggling - especially like juggling with two significantly different weights, where at the start the heavy one gets more attention. Eventually, with practice, the body finds its equilibrium. I've found the same to be true of information processing when it comes to juggling acting and observing.
@spanky1113 Thanks Spanky. I often think a kind of mist descends around games - we've played them so many times, but still feel so surprised that things went that way again.
I had the switch happen quite a few times already with someone, "well your great help" I see as his classic move. I replied your the one asking for help, he went silent and dammn did that felt good
@TheraminTrees Thanks for your response. I never noticed the mic noise. These new videos certainly are pretty. Lately I've been trying to figure out what the payoff is for making RUclips videos. I personally can't work up the motivation to make more. RUclips seems to entertain but not educate...
This seems really useful! I'm not very experienced with socializing but I know I've fallen into some of the gimmicks you describe. I'll definitely check out that book you mentioned. :3
Question for the author: In the "why don't you, yes but" scenario, if B's response a dismissive "That's nice..." response, indicating a lack of interest in A's concern, what position does come from, P, A, or C? Also, what does the inquisitive response "What do you mean "You cant do the essay"?" count as? If B is fundamentally questioning the premise of A's defeatist statement, how does that fit in to the paradigm? I hope I'm not getting ahead of the video series, it's great so far!
mm I think would be a good idea to add some examples of what a game is beyond "why don't you, yes but" game, so the viewers could more closely relate it to their personal experiences.
@1aaronaaron1 There's more than a whiff of it in lots of those kinds of exchanges that I've seen - ad hoc evasions/obstacles thrown up against suggestions to prevent action: ie honest investigation.
@TheraminTrees It reminded me of the music from a game named "Fable", so I wondered if this was taken from that, or if this was someone else. I like it though :) Is there somewhere I could download it? Great video btw. Last year year I attended a course in conflict management, where we learnd about the Drama Triangle, and how it worked in practice. I like how this videos explain this situation through the usage of the "parent", "adult" and "child" mentalities. Are there more videos about this?
Very good work, research and explaining. Beeing kind of a modern 'prodigal son' with ' P- ' in a proximity controlled social env., i combed trough the internet & libraries to find methods to cope with my surroundings. Your Videos where one of those findings who helped me evaluate a lot of the theory i read & understand my social contacts. So thanks for that :) Question: Is there a relation between the willingness to change your state (i.g.: From (A) to (P)) & the social proximity of the 2?
1) Ok, thanks for the quick response. I appreciate it. So if I understand correctly, Adult to Adult is complimentary, as well as any other ego state to the same ego state. 2) I enjoyed your videos. Informative and interesting.
Possibly this has been addressed here, but how do you keep from going into an infinite regress, examining every aspect of every action you and others do? How do you consider the transactions while keeping a flowing and natural relationship with your partners? By the way, you've been an intense influence on my life. I find myself referring to your work in discussions often.
Being egocentric wild or inconsiderate is just a mal adaptation like fearful and rebellious. Overprotective nurturing is not actually nurturing, it’s controlling
Is the "Ian Stewart" in your description the same one who co-authored "Figments of Reality" with Cohen and the series "The Science of Discworld" with Cohen and Terry Pratchett?
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
![imaginary defects | when dogmas label us flawed [cc]](/img/1.gif)
I watch these about once every six months so I don't lose hold of what I've learned.
It's the new year. Time to watch all of these again
I feel the same about self-compassion. It "slips" a bit a the year goes by so every January I refresh
Many years ago TA was the first model that was ever presented to me when I began studying counselling (part of my post-graduate training as a Health Visitor in the UK). It has been probably one of the most useful models I have come
across, and I still sing the praises of this concept that so ably simplifies the complex interactions we find ourselves in when trying to communicate. Of course it was only the beginning, but for me a great place to start.
Are there any other models you liked?
@@johnathanparker2182 I'm a fan of Carl Rogers....The person centred approach. Self actualisation theory and self realisation. A personal journey of discovery with guidance and empathy to explore potentially risky and unsafe territory.
@@viviencounsellmitchell7466 Uff, seems interesting. Thanks for the reply!
It’s 2021 and I’m still watching this series regularly.
Me too. 2022.
@@dmrenterprizes4101 That's awesome.
@@dmrenterprizes4101 Located in South Florida?
@@Frankienoname0 No. Kingston, Jamaica.
It’s 2023 and I just found this incredible information!
@OatSharpener Thanks. TA's metaphors've transformed my relationship into a vastly drama-free zone. I'll admit drama used to feel 'exhilarating' to a degree - that heightened state, with more at stake. But the stuff it blocked - the genuine intimacy, fun, love, laughter - that's since come through shows the thinness of drama like nothing else.
This may prove to be among the most valuable series on RUclips.
10/10
What I like about TA, is that it is a simple enough theory that's accessible to ordinary people who are not formal students of psychology, yet have an interest in relationship dynamics. I'm loving your series on this compelling subject!
A complex subject , beatifully presented - especially the persecutor/victim /rescuer ever-changing positions within a destructive relationship
@foolnwhat Something I hoped would come through in this video in particular is the value the positive aspects of controlling, nurturing, adapted and free styles of being. If we were Adult all the time, we'd be missing out on so much.
This is an old comment but thank you for this, I was feeling like perhaps those states weren't the best response compared to adult. But yes, everything in a case by case basis, it's more important to be aware, considerate and healthy I guess.
just found this channel on my recommended what a gem
Thanks for these videos. Really brought to my attention some of the destructive behaviors I had been exhibiting. Gonna focus hard to change it.
You have put together a really good way of teaching TA. I hope you won't mind if I say one or two things about the content.
The difficulty with this teaching on ego states is that the Structural Parent and Child ego states are past. Current thinking is that Adult is Integrating Adult. This is where we integrate the best from our parents and significant others or where from our own childhood. The Integrating Adult is here and now. Therefore if we are here and now we will be in a mindful place and can decide how to act and what behaviour we need to take. When we are not mindful we can move into a regressed state and this is unhelpful for effective communication.
Some people call the model which has Critical and Nurturing etc. as behaviours the Functional Model because this is how we function. We (Mountain Associates) have developed the OK Modes model which is based on the OK Corral. This clearly delineates the Structural Ego State model from the Functional Model as ours replaces the latter. In the old model of Functional Ego state it was unclear why, when Parent and Child are historical, we would want to go into those to deal with communication? We only do this if we are in script. When in Integrating Adult we are able to deal in the here and now and act appropriately.
We cannot actually tell if someone is in Structural Parent or Child unless we do four types of diagnosis and we often don't have contract for this. In the work place it's not very appropriate to ask someone if this is how they did it as a child or how their parents did it! Therefore using the OK Modes model is more appropriate as we only work on two assessments: social and behavioural.
For further explanation of the OK Modes model just go to our website and look under TA - though these are text descriptions and not excellently presented teaches like these.
Great Vid, interesting idea about unplugging. I often contemplate becoming a recluse as it seems the world and the people in it run on games. It seems to be the way to make and keep friendships, by being willing to play anothers games !
I really like this one best. It's helped me realize how I get myself caught up in these games in my own personal life. And now I realize sometimes I'm the one starting games and I don't really want to subject people I love to things that are such a waste of our time, life's short enough. But I've been really analyzing my own behavior lately and am learning much more about what's going on below the surface here. Really appreciate this whole series, Thanks!!!
@kendrawhisp The video isn't saying these are always the dynamics in a scenario where A constantly rejects B's 'help'. The video is just showing an example of when it is. Let's face it, sometimes B will hit on the solution. Sometimes A will bring B up to speed on what they've already tried. But when it's a constant pattern between two people, the video suggests looking at whether a game's being played.
why vedio is not in english
@bandreification 'One interpretation that works some of the time.'
-This isn't clear. What one interpretation?
I know this is an old vid, but I just discovered this channel and am devouring every video. It informs so many things I knew parts of with new knowledge and makes them more easily understood and conveyed, but also informs me of many things I hadn't heard of. Great all around.
For example, in his Infantilization vid (I saw that and his attacking ideas vids first before diving in), both my girlfriend and I saw things that our parents had done/still do, her far more than I. But at the same time he mentioned "parentalization", but only in passing. Thinking about what that might mean, it occurred to me that she also does sometimes get thrust into the parent role, either because hers are too incompetent or unwilling to do adult things that need to be done, especially in their finances. I was confused at first how they could infantilize and parentalize at the same time...until I started watching his TA vids, and understanding the switching between ego states (at least that's what I assume is happening, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning). And now the 2nd vid above is showing me more on that, in a scary way. Not only do I think her mother switches between ego states, thus explaining the variations in behavior, but he showed how both sides can be used in a positive or negative way...and I think her mother uses the negative way of both sides of both parent and child. The worst way to handle a situation is usually what happens, and I'm beginning to understand why more deeply than just "She's a narcissist".
Thanks for your easily understandable explanations, and keep up the great work.
It’s really useful to have things I kind of hashed out by myself over a long time clarified like this. Also interesting to recognize the life positions of a lot of people I’m close with suddenly and realize ways that makes sense of what seems like sudden and confusing personality changes… like people in an arrogant position tend to stick to their guns, people in a futile position will always wind up on the victim side even if it means going hard in the opposite direction of previous stances they held, people in a depressive position like me may change positions a lot to conform with the latest information they’ve gained but only after grappling with it and usually fail to apply it to themselves. I’m OK, You’re OK position is a more balanced state of being since the few people I see who are there, are open to change but never dramatically, and aren’t prone to self-destructive behaviors as a result of compliance.
Your videos are like therapy for me. I'm addicted. Please keep learning and imparting your knowledge!!!!! It is desperately needed.
Theramin... Each of these videos are eye opening for me in MANY relationships. From casual acquaintances, to my relationship with my parents and significant others, even to my peers, elders, and teachers.
Thank you.
@ChaoticSupernova I kind of structured the series on the hoof as I was filling in the video description to the trailer - just started writing the tltes for TA videos I hadn't done but wanted to do. The first three were planned, then two extra. But people'll be bloody sick of TA if I go on after that! ;8)
Man....i've been in so many arguements and fights because i understood what was going on and i remained in the Adult state. Didn't know this entire proccess had a name.
It can be really tiring seeing right through this while the other party keeps leeching energy.
Either that or my autism doesn't care about other people's emotional well being.
This channel is such a gem.
It's 2024 and I'm so glad I found this channel
Absolutely love these videos. Trying to understand human behavior can often be exhausting. This explains it so simply. Thank you 🙏😁
I've read "Games People Play." Your structuring of explaining ego states and games have made my reading easier.
These videos are so amazing. Very well packaged and informative. I can't stop watching them
@FilthyIcon Thanks Filthy. ;8) I do want to keep a fairly steady momentum with the series. Next episode'll have a slightly bigger gap before uploading due to time factors this coming week.
Very well done. It`s interesting how by spending a bit of time working on yourself you can see your own faults and those in others as well. BUT the important thing is to realize that we all have issues and no to take it so personally; often times they aren`t doing it on purpose and don`t even realize what they are doing.
That is what helps me. Another great video.
Cheers!
Papa
@CounsellingResource Thank you. I think TA has some incredibly valuable thinking tools to offer - even when I'm not using TA terms explicitly with clients, it informs my relationship dynamic/responses hugely.
@kendrawhisp 'if i asked someone to help me, and they said well what do you think you should do, id say i dont have a scoobies, what do you think'
-And I'd say, 'I don't know'. If you wanted my help, I'd expect you to give me at least some input on what you'd already tried, etc. Without that I'm in danger of wasting my time going through a ton of Yes, buts.
I don't know how good a model TA is for normal interactions, but it is a great model for Sitcom plots. I can think of several episodes of several shows where the plot is that there is a parallel transaction going on that one party does not enjoy, and in the end it is resolved via a split transaction.
Theramin Trees, you are AWESOME!!! I won't miss a video of yours. Keep up the good work. Please post the third video quickly :)
Can't tell you how much this has helped me. Thank you so much for putting these videos up. Plus it's no hardship to listen to such a lovely voice ;-) Thanks again.
though people are entitled to their opinion, through my experience, I think that "i don't like that painting" and statements like it can also be the starting points of games or discounts. criticism of art is a slippery one for sure though. I have had friends say statements that are seemingly less harmless than that but because I have been in their games before and had time to reflect, I catch them, call them out and the game ends up being diffused.
lowlowseesee Yes, I think as we get to know people well, we often get to know the 'preludes' to their games - the discount hasn't come yet, but it's just round the corner. There's a person in my life who often begins games by wandering down memory lane, inviting me to accompany them into their nostalgia - then a little ways down the path comes the discount. As you point out, when we pick up on these patterns, our eyes are open much sooner in the exchange.
TheraminTrees exactly. especially since as you mentioned in the vid, the exchanges happen so fast. I always have the best success in getting someone to reconsider an idea or change their mind, when I get to know them. sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes years. thanks for taking the time to reply my friend, hope all is well.
TheraminTrees exactly. especially since as you mentioned in the vid, the exchanges happen so fast. I always have the best success in getting someone to reconsider an idea or change their mind, when I get to know them. sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes years. thanks for taking the time to reply my friend, hope all is well.
Thank You Theramin, These are not only interesting but incredibly helpful.
Awesome, insightful well explained videos, you should do this full time!
Everybody should watch this video and think about themselves... Thank you, Theramintrees!
I need this video years ago. But now is good too. Thank you, very informative.
This is amazing, and I find it extremely fascinating. I have a very poor relationship with my older sister. It seems to me that every time we are in each other's company for more than an hour or so, each of us ends up misunderstanding the other, perceiving a grievous insult, and becoming quite upset. Each of us feels certain that the one of us is being completely reasonable, while the other is being unbelievably difficult. The fact that our perceptions are so mirrored makes it hard to solve!
@tinySpectacle 'TA also seems like it might be a good way to reveal the psychology of characters in fiction.'
-Hey Lo ;8) I thought I'd replied to this! I wanted to say I can completely see the value to literature that you highlight - a way of analysing characters/interactions from the readers' point of view, as well as constructing them from the writers' side. As you say, especially with the split gamey stuff and those juicy ulterior motives.
Thanks. I'd recommend 'TA Today' in the video description - very clearly written.
if i found these when i was even 20 years old my entire life would have been different and for the better... better late than never!
@ZebaSzp Absolutely - another kind of Switch! In theory any combination of V, P and R Switches are possible. Like A rescuing B, feeling sorry for them going to all that fruitless effort: 'Aw .... well, you tried.'
@Hythloday71 'It seems to be the way to make and keep friendships, by being willing to play anothers games!'
-I think there's a lot of truth to that. And it would be interesting to see correlations between particular games and particular people who play them in one's life. TA's transformed some personal relationships that where previously destructive. But also led to a lot of unplugging from intractable game-playing.
I had an interaction with someone who, when they seemed to be giving up on trying to defend their claim, gave me an "I'm sure you're a real smart fella (but)" sort of line. Nevermind that we were probably in some game in the discussion already, but that line made me aware of that slippery feel that I think you were talking about.
Thank you great upload for everyone.
@Kabitu1 I did a degree in psychology along with several years of postgrad courses - about to start another 2-year course in September.
I see a lot of comments who find this helpful because it gives them some textbook answer for why other people in their lives are so difficult. Not a lot in the way of people self-reflecting, but I guess it's a human compulsion to put down others for the sake of making yourself feel better.
@pumkinpi2 Isn't that fascinating - and so open and aware of her to share that. Wow. Fantastic!
@Fiskepudding127 There was a game listed in "Games People Play" by Eric Berne called "I was only trying to help" Where someone's advice is continually rejected and the payoff is a feeling of bewilderment at the ingratitude of the person on the receiving end of the advice. It is very possible that your friend is playing "yes but". The exit listed in the book for "yes but" is "That is a tough one, what do you think you should do?" but also states that for the most part the game is harmless.
This has really helped me out in realising how to deal with my 'friend'.
I like these videos and channel. I find TA (and your presentation of it) rather valuable, informative, effective, and mutually enhancing. Kudos.
Funny really how many views and subscribers this channel has in comparison to those with millions.
- "[look at a Society's art and you'll see its popularly held beliefs and values.]"
[ paraphrased, someone other than me said that first. ]
Thank you so much for making these videos. I can already see how they might help me in my work environment.
I've seen this sort of thing with many people. You get those who either try to take responsibility for absolutely everything, and people who try to pawn responsibility for things on to you at every opportunity.They have tricks they employ to get that result, most of which could be seen as attempts to affirm parent or child status respectively. Parent and child seem to correspond to dominant/submissive roles, too, which is the way I always thought about it before I saw your first vid on TA..
Helped me learn my psychology lessons better. There are lot of negative parenting figures around, right from childhood to this stage of life, at home and workplace. We need to learn to deal with them by reaching the adult stage ( by being firm, but not agressive or exploitatory), unlike our persecutors. Sometimes we have to take out the positive nurturing parent in us.
very interesting...look forward to the next
Very Informative ,Good Job Sir.
You blew me away. Now I need to find my house again.
Ye, I can see that analogy. And I guess a further analogy with that movie comes in the idea of being caught in a dream within a dream - so that one should be wary of escaping one game only to find oneself in another.
really useful series, thank you theramin trees, i follow your videos...
Meh... I'm pretty sure if I was having a conversation and I said "I THINK WE'RE IN A GAME" they'de probably think I was mental.
"WE HAVE TO DEFEAT THE GAME MASTER!"
Other than that, though, interestng stuff.
What I was wondering, though, is if there is a way to come back from the final response in that game, ie.
"You're a great help!"
"Shutup you idiot"
Give a genuine “thank you”
@@kevinboyle3104 My absolute favorite way of judo-flipping people’s sarcasm is to act like it’s not sarcastic. :D
great vid, reminds me of some training seminars I attended while working tech support.
Very interesting. Though my experience with the 'Why don't you... / Yes, but...' game is that, I as the 'Yes, but...'-Person just want to vent and complain and have someone tell me 'Well, that certainly sucks!/I feel ya!' until I've processed my frustration and am ready to actually look for solutions.
It's hard - for me, too - not to fall right into solution seeking when others complain to you, but with practice I'm getting better at just vibing with the other person until they actually directly ask me to help them find a solution, or I ask: 'So, do you know what to do about it yet?'
We often forget that feelings take time and that it's okay to sit with them for a while instead of instantly trying to 'solve' them.
Food for thought - seriously well done.
Watched it twice, as there is sooo much great stuff in there!
This is fascinating.
Offering one's personal skills to the world at large - a painting, a project at work, etc. - without /demanding/ for approval comes to mind. I've never taken a psychology course in my life, though, so there are probably other things I haven't thought of.
Thank you! This is helpful!
Can't wait for the next video.
These exact concepts appeared in other videos you've released something like a year ago. Same examples even.
This is really useful. Cheers for makung this Theramin :)
@porrophagus It could get immobilising couldn't it - the potential for endless analysis. Speaking personally, I've found it's come naturally with experience/practice. Like juggling - especially like juggling with two significantly different weights, where at the start the heavy one gets more attention. Eventually, with practice, the body finds its equilibrium. I've found the same to be true of information processing when it comes to juggling acting and observing.
@spanky1113 Thanks Spanky. I often think a kind of mist descends around games - we've played them so many times, but still feel so surprised that things went that way again.
I had the switch happen quite a few times already with someone, "well your great help" I see as his classic move. I replied your the one asking for help, he went silent and dammn did that felt good
@TheraminTrees
Thanks for your response. I never noticed the mic noise. These new videos certainly are pretty.
Lately I've been trying to figure out what the payoff is for making RUclips videos. I personally can't work up the motivation to make more. RUclips seems to entertain but not educate...
This helped me a lot when it first came out.
@OneCatholic Thanks OneCatholic ;8)
very wise observation. nice
This seems really useful! I'm not very experienced with socializing but I know I've fallen into some of the gimmicks you describe. I'll definitely check out that book you mentioned. :3
I wonder what will happen if I immerse myself in this methodology. I might need it.
After watching the video twice, I still didn't see it. Good catch, FrozenSpector!
Most insightful
Question for the author: In the "why don't you, yes but" scenario, if B's response a dismissive "That's nice..." response, indicating a lack of interest in A's concern, what position does come from, P, A, or C?
Also, what does the inquisitive response "What do you mean "You cant do the essay"?" count as? If B is fundamentally questioning the premise of A's defeatist statement, how does that fit in to the paradigm?
I hope I'm not getting ahead of the video series, it's great so far!
Absolutely bloody brilliant👍
@Perroquet51 I agree. What say we ditch the TA and line up the dirty martinins, or what have you ;8)
excellent video! can't wait for the rest of the series =D
mm I think would be a good idea to add some examples of what a game is beyond "why don't you, yes but" game, so the viewers could more closely relate it to their personal experiences.
@1aaronaaron1 There's more than a whiff of it in lots of those kinds of exchanges that I've seen - ad hoc evasions/obstacles thrown up against suggestions to prevent action: ie honest investigation.
thank you very much for sharing such a great video
@TheraminTrees It reminded me of the music from a game named "Fable", so I wondered if this was taken from that, or if this was someone else. I like it though :) Is there somewhere I could download it?
Great video btw. Last year year I attended a course in conflict management, where we learnd about the Drama Triangle, and how it worked in practice. I like how this videos explain this situation through the usage of the "parent", "adult" and "child" mentalities. Are there more videos about this?
Very good work, research and explaining.
Beeing kind of a modern 'prodigal son' with ' P- ' in a proximity controlled social env., i combed trough the internet & libraries to find methods to cope with my surroundings. Your Videos where one of those findings who helped me evaluate a lot of the theory i read & understand my social contacts. So thanks for that :)
Question: Is there a relation between the willingness to change your state (i.g.: From (A) to (P)) & the social proximity of the 2?
This is going to be a hell of a series! How many chapters is it? 50?
Great video!
1) Ok, thanks for the quick response. I appreciate it.
So if I understand correctly, Adult to Adult is complimentary, as well as any other ego state to the same ego state.
2) I enjoyed your videos. Informative and interesting.
I think This game is good for dealing with children and also give us knowledge for our TA.
I read this a year or so ago, and man do I wish I saw this first (was still a good read).
Possibly this has been addressed here, but how do you keep from going into an infinite regress, examining every aspect of every action you and others do? How do you consider the transactions while keeping a flowing and natural relationship with your partners?
By the way, you've been an intense influence on my life. I find myself referring to your work in discussions often.
Being egocentric wild or inconsiderate is just a mal adaptation like fearful and rebellious. Overprotective nurturing is not actually nurturing, it’s controlling
Is the "Ian Stewart" in your description the same one who co-authored "Figments of Reality" with Cohen and the series "The Science of Discworld" with Cohen and Terry Pratchett?
great stuff!