The most important aero advantage comes from the rider position. That shows that most aero claims about the bike are tiny marginal gains. And as pt says. "Most people won't be going fast enough to see them"
There's a lot of questioning about aerodynamic. Then I see that most of the riders don't have even 300w 20min power and neither an aerodynamic position. This means that you will use the product 98% of the time where the aerodynamic doesn't allow big differences. Below 36/37kmh the frame of a bike is almost irrelevant. And most rider strungles to stay 30kmh on flat road A light bike will benefit always, accelerates faster, climbs faster, feels better. Still, I bought an Aero bike because I like how it looks and that's it
Agree 100%. I never understood why they were promoting aero bikes when they work only if you can push hard and ride at speed. Will do a aero vs lightweight specific video!
@@fede1275 I believe there's a similarity with the running community. Carbon shoes are amazing products for high level athletes. They run easy pace 4:15 and less per km. The average Joe runs at 5:45 per km. And that's how they end up destroyed in the joints by the shoes while they were not even having the benefits of a carbon shoe as they run slow. As a coach I would say: go for aero bike (performance wise) if you have 340/350w on a 20min test and already an aggressive position: 130 and more stem, slammed down. That's starting to mitigate the negatives of am Aero bike. Final comment: Sl8 aero bike? Look a the SystemSix, that's a real one guys
@@davidepetroni3137 of course, in the market there are specific products destined for a specific use. It's the brands marketing that feel the need to sell the dream and target the products to the wrong users just to widen the audience. It's really not easy to read the tests and navigate the advertisement information.
@@fede1275 next one is the final comment for real! 😅 I ride my recovery when I am in Italy (as I live abroad) with a 15 aluminium-carbon years top end bike. 135 watts. Guess the surprise... Same exact 28kmh as my full aero bike. And I don't feel like backwards when crossing an overpass
I think you nailed the whole thing here. What specilized is claiming is that the Sl8 is the fastest in all conditions, meaning not only in straight head wind. In other words they have changed the reference conditions for their claims and this is fully aligned with your findings on your own bikes.
Conditions are very important. Was in a race which went along a summit rd for 30km about 7yrs ago on my old carbon bike designed in 2008, so not particularly aero. Anway had my box section rims on, as that's all I had back then. We went down a fast descent to a saddle- 70 to 85kph usually, but got hit by this super strong side wind. Many guys riding their fancy deep section carbon wheels, were blown from right to left and no matter how much the tried couldn't stop themselves going off the side of the road with some falling off and tumbling into the grass. Even I struggled a bit fighting the wind, but due to my non-aero setup was able to continue albeit at 30 to 40kph but much better than 0kph compared to the guys standing beside their bikes, dusting themselves off! In that circumstance my bike was much more aero from the side at least!
For the amateur cyclist the difference between bikes in terms of speed is negligible. I just upgraded to an tarmac sl6 with electronic gears and disc brakes. It feels great riding it but speed is roughly the same.
You made a really good point about extra turbulence on an Aero frame, I thought I was crazy. I bought an Aero bike about a month ago with 55mm rims and it felt very very quick and smooth until it got windy and then it felt very very unstable. I bought smaller rims and it still feels unstable in certain conditions. Now I'm thinking I should buy a more lightweight bike paired with zipp 353 nsw's.
It really depends on the conditions, yes and using the right tool for the job. In my opinion aero bikes are fun and the speed is addictive, but their drawbacks need to be known and understood. Really they are bikes for hard efforts at high speeds on the flats. Anything else an all-around bike is better. Marketing pushed aero bikes for everyone, not great.
Bike manufacturers will always do their best to sell you something they just came up with, they only care about how much money they will get from you not how fast you will go.
Like all other industries, it’s not specific to bikes. They’re businesses trying to sell things, they’re not your mates. Cyclists seem to think they have a special relationship with the industry
@@dh7314 I don't think I have a special relationship with bike manufacturers, but I will spend my money within reason and not fall for anything that comes my way. Lately it seems like the industry is moving towards ripping off cyclists as much as they can thinking they are all dentists.
When they brought out the SL7 they changed the geometry, by making the head tube significantly shorter. The SL6 was one of the best handling bikes and much more comfy. Regarding to the fact, that about 70% is about position of the rider, you get your aero win there. But for most consumers, a head tube of 133mm in size M is unrideable without spacers. If you add them to your SL7/8 you will loose your advantage. And if anybody is lucky to have the SL6 rim brake version (especially the ultralight version), he will have a phenomenal light and well handling bike.
awesome bike design with input from a few top world tour riders. compare to the colnag, Pino, Willer ....? expensive fore sure. if people have the cash they can buy it for sure and it all just depenses on your budget. we can buy anthing we like i guess.
Same thing seems to be happening at Cannondale. They say their newer Supersix Evo (gen 4) is nearly as aero as their System Six. It's lighter, and from what I hear no less stiff but way more comfortable. So, unless they are making a newer better System Six, that model might go away
I feel the brands were not giving out the correct marketing when they wanted to sell their aero bikes. Aero for everyone even in mild climbs it's not working for the average rider that cannot sustain more than 30Km/h on the flat. Aero works if you work hard. Then they ended up with a lot of customers on sluggish bikes. Now they are pushing again lightweight bikes, but they need to tell them that they are also more aero! Crazy!
I run a carbon CX (Focus Mares from 2017) with road tires and light 45mm carbon wheels, I have put a longer stem and road pedals. I live in Hamburg, where hills are considered as mountains, and the moment I approach 30km/hr, any decent aero bike leaves me in the dust. BTW I am 1.83 in height and 90kg, and I compare myself with similar riders- I can also keep a good aero position. For places like Hamburg and around, a „lightweight“ aero bike like the Cube aero litening from 2020 onwards seems to make sense.
I agree with you 100%, it’s all marketing in my opinion, I own a Ribble Ultra SLR and absolutely love it, I live in Florida where it’s flat so it’s perfect for me here.
It was a masterpiece of bike marketing, that's for sure. Engineers I trust posit that the aero gains are entirely due to the bars. I don't personally believe Specialized' claims about how each generation is X% better than the previous one. I find it is impossible to be true in real world conditions as opposed to some single wind tunnel test unrelated to real world conditions. Anyway it is all hypothetical for me at the price they want for one.
Whilst I'm not here to back up specialized, aerodynamics is something we just cannot see. I think we will see a lot of developments in the near future that challenge our visual perceptions of what "areo" is.
Yes, because we were used to add the label "aero" to a bike that is profiled and efficient mainly at high speed in favourable wind conditions. Now it seems that the term is extended and almost overlapping to what we used to consider all-around or lightweight bikes.
At the final of day is so difficult to say the SL8 is as fast as another bikes. In my opinion is pure marketing and they’ve justified the price in this “upgrade”.
The claimed gains from SL7 to SL8 probably come mostly from the handlebars. The SL7 had a bar & stem combo with large frontal area of stem with bolts and all. The SL8 has an integrated cockpit. That's a materially smaller frontal area. Add the reduced frontal area of the headtube, and the gains from 7 to 8 are plausible.
Bingo. Precisely what I discussed with my good friend. Especially on the aero section, I wonder if those bike aero ‘experts’ are even more knowledgeable than Adrian Newey / Rory Byrne in aero? 😀 By the way, I wonder id your aero bike mimics that McLaren MP4/4? Did you root for Senna or Prost? 😂
New Roval integrated bar and stem was also major part of the SL8 aero claim. I cloud put it on my SL6 and and bike would look more or less identical to SL8. Speed sniffer i will pass 😂
The new SL8 frame doesn't look that much more aero than the SL7, but I think it is hard to tell how it'd perform in reality since you can't see the air. That being said, I think Peak Torque did a video and he said that the majority of the aero gains came from the new handlebar. If true, maybe SL7 owners should just upgrade their bars if they really care about the marginal benefit and save $5-10k :P
Yes, I saw Peak Torque video and I agree with his remarks. However I believe, same as per the SL7, that the SL8 should be just called an all around bike, same as the the Colnago V4RS, Enve Melee, Cannondale SuperSix. With this low profile frames the aero advantage (or disadvantage depending on the conditions) are much lower than true aero bikes like the SystemSix, Ultra, S5 and so on.
It seems to be a case of the venge being old enough to now be outdone in weight and aerodynamics by the sl8 designed around newer UCI rules and the new handlebar. This is probably why they keep using the venge as the comparison. I have no doubt that the new aero bikes are faster in a straight flat than the sl8 and no one from specialized has claimed otherwise. Cannondale also admits that the systemsix is still more aero than the supersix
Yes, maybe it is like that. By why keep calling the SL8 an aero bike? Same as the Colnago V4RS, they are all-around bikes, definitely not something like a Venge, SystemSix, Ultra or Foil.
@@fede1275 Exactly, as Millicente and also you said in the video: It's all down to interpretation - new version might be faster due to the following things: more aerodynamic integrated handlebar (better Cd and also better A), flatter stem, which forces you in a lower, more aerodynamic position, despite similar stack and reach between Venge and this one. And because body produces main drag, the position is most important (far more than frame). Frame is also thinner (so lower "A" in CdA, this might reduce a bit of an advantage of aero shape of the Venge). I believe that these claims are not only frame-specific, but consider whole package, also a cyclist, riding the bike and this one has quite aggressive geometry (as you explained, don't look only reach and stack, but also angles, like stem angle, seat tube angle...). Moreover, wheels are most probably more aerodynamic than those wheels on the older Venge... (they put 80 mm in the back, most probably they are also wider...). And tires are most probably better also, so they might take them into account? Said that, I think all this is negligible for us mortals :) Not mentioning the outrageous price. At the end, Venge still looks much better :)
bike weight and rider body position over aero every day of the week for the average rider.....and RE body position i'd personally say comfort over trying to contort yourself into a pro position makes for a far more enjoyable ride. But that's for us average joes. Aero for the pro's of course who ride at warp speed and can justify the marginal gains.
Lol..great content..but i dont understand all the fuss about one bike.if you like the bike and money isnt an issue then buy it..if you dont like it or consider it too expensive then dont buy it..folks have options....i think the hate and the fussin isnt about the actual bike itself but about the hefty pricetag..ive learned in life everything isnt for everybody..get what you like and can afford...its just that simple..
Actually the SL8 is as close as possible to my ideal bike design, apart from discs. In this video I don't question the price or the engineering choices, but its marketing positioning. This is a great all-around bike that is portrayed as an aero bike. After the marketing had been feeding aero for such a long time, everyone feel the need to attach the aero tag regardless.
Hilarious Unless your one of the top riders in the world where fractions of seconds matter all the hype on bikes being faster is laughable. The only thing that will make a bike faster is the one that is doing the necessary training protocols and implementing with the intention to improve upon muscular endurance in regards to sustained power for performance . Think about it let’s put a pro on a 1000$ used bike and a solid cyclist on an sl8 and see who is faster on a 15 mile ride. Honestly most that will buy and ride these bikes that are not sponsored are not riding that fast anyhow . I see drs and wealthy guys in Beverly Hills daily riding 10-15 k bikes and rarely riding faster then 18 mph as I typically ride 19-25 mph on flats 270-340 wts and cruise past most of them constantly .
I agree, but at rhe same time we all want to dream of being a pro rider. I would just want to know from marketing the correct spec and feature of a product, while things seem to be mixed up too much in the industry.
I ride a Tarmac SL7 and I’m sometimes faster on an old CAAD12 alloy rim brake bike. A bit lighter than the Tar SL7. If I ride in the drops and the conditions are right my average time is faster. Body position, level of fitness, terrain, watts per kilo, power output etc is so important. It’s not what you ride it’s how you ride. I think we will see a return to the more traditional round tubing with a touch of aero and steer away from the marketing BS. Top Tier SL8 $18’000 AUD. Ultra/SRAM Force $11,000 AUD way to much. The profit margin is to big
That's very true. But overall I am not against marketing and expensive builds. I am just concerned when good marketing becomes absurd and tries too hard.
@@fede1275 I forgot to say I bought the Tarmac SL7 Expert in a sale 33% off. When the SL8 came in. I’m glad I didn’t pay full price. It’s worth about the deducted price I’d say 👍
How about the claim from a certain wheel maker that under the right condition, their wheel produces NEGATIVE drag coefficient... or LIFT. Pu those wheels on this bike and you won't have to pedal. 😂👍
Lightweight aero bikes have been around for ages. You don't need 2 bikes anymore. If you really believe aero makes a difference 😂 bike people are funny, so much hate for other brands. Fyi I don't own a specialized but when canyon releases their new "faster" ultimate I'll be waiting for your video....
@@fede1275 it's all nonsense. Aero bikes are useless for most people unless pro when we are talking about seconds making a difference. . People buy aero but can't hold an aero position for more than 5 minutes. Buy a bike that handles well, or geometry suits you so you can be in a aero position indefinitely, or is comfortable to ride etc. Dont buy for aero gains it's all marketing for ANY brand.
@@MarcraM82 I still get a lot of fun riding the aero bike I have, but we need to be conscious of its characteristics and purpose. It's to go fast while ridden hard on the flat!
A Lamborghini Countach looks aerodynamic, but it’s about as aerodynamic as a brick. To imply that it’s just marketing is an insult to the people who work so hard to create SL8.
I guess it's the marketing message that does not do justice to the SL8 engineers. They created an all-around bike that possibly performs better in most situations. Why then do the jump and push the bike almost as their fastest and most aero ever? Where they wrong when they tested the Venge or the SystemSix in the wind tunnel? Has physics changed? Would the SL8 be faster than even more profiled bikes than Ribble Ultra or Scott Foil or a TT bike? Who is right or wrong? Personally I like lightweight bikes more, but I don't like mixed messages.
@@dblock8829 Since forever, bikes get lighter, stiffer, and more areo every year. At present time, they should weigh about 3 kg, have no compliance left at all and be practically unvisible to the air. Nothing like that has came to be, as you know. We are talking marginal gains under very specific conditions, as Fede elaborated on in the video. Example: I swapped from a Cube gravel bike (aluminum) to a semi-aero Pinarello, and at training speeds around 30 km/h it was a gain of 1 km/h if I am generous. Maybe at higher speeds this gets amplified, but on the other hand, if you go race speed, it will be mostly in a gruppetto, where areo is nothing all of a sudden. Who is in need of backing up their bold claims is the industry. But they don’t, because they can’t. Everybody would be interested. But it’s always only some broad statement, no details given. Which, as a prospective buyer, I appreciate and feel good about my purchase, but has no value for an engineer.
@@dblock8829 of course, but logic should be applied a bit more when we look at marketing claims. You see the progression of frame shapes between lightweight bikes to TT bikes and we do draw conclusions when a new product is launched and the claims seems to go in a different direction.
Most of your opinions on this video are wrong and it's as dishonest as specialized's marketing. First of all, you can't see aero. Secondly, aero bikes shine in crosswinds, they might be less stable, but are statistically faster. And finally, specialized didn't get the ideia for the speed sniffer from that TCR with the add on. Specialized had an oversized front on their Triathlon bike from like 2007
Of course I am wrong, as everyone else in the subject. Let's change the name to Cannonale: were they wrong to say the SystemSix is the fastest? Would now say thew SuperSix is even faster? It always depends on the circumstances. Would you ride a grand tour on a TT bike? Would you ride a TT on a lightweight bike? I am just saying it is the wrong marketing to say the SL8 is the fastest of all.
@@fede1275 They didn't say the SuperSix was faster on the flat than the SystemSix. They said it was faster uphill. The Cda os the SystemSix is still lower according to their white paper.
A lot of riders don’t have much of an aerodynamic body to go with the aerodynamic bikes. As for me, I’ll take lightweight all day.
The most important aero advantage comes from the rider position. That shows that most aero claims about the bike are tiny marginal gains. And as pt says. "Most people won't be going fast enough to see them"
weight savings can always be felt though!
There's a lot of questioning about aerodynamic. Then I see that most of the riders don't have even 300w 20min power and neither an aerodynamic position. This means that you will use the product 98% of the time where the aerodynamic doesn't allow big differences. Below 36/37kmh the frame of a bike is almost irrelevant. And most rider strungles to stay 30kmh on flat road
A light bike will benefit always, accelerates faster, climbs faster, feels better. Still, I bought an Aero bike because I like how it looks and that's it
Agree 100%. I never understood why they were promoting aero bikes when they work only if you can push hard and ride at speed. Will do a aero vs lightweight specific video!
@@fede1275 I believe there's a similarity with the running community. Carbon shoes are amazing products for high level athletes. They run easy pace 4:15 and less per km. The average Joe runs at 5:45 per km. And that's how they end up destroyed in the joints by the shoes while they were not even having the benefits of a carbon shoe as they run slow.
As a coach I would say: go for aero bike (performance wise) if you have 340/350w on a 20min test and already an aggressive position: 130 and more stem, slammed down. That's starting to mitigate the negatives of am Aero bike. Final comment: Sl8 aero bike? Look a the SystemSix, that's a real one guys
@@davidepetroni3137 of course, in the market there are specific products destined for a specific use. It's the brands marketing that feel the need to sell the dream and target the products to the wrong users just to widen the audience. It's really not easy to read the tests and navigate the advertisement information.
@@fede1275 next one is the final comment for real! 😅
I ride my recovery when I am in Italy (as I live abroad) with a 15 aluminium-carbon years top end bike. 135 watts.
Guess the surprise... Same exact 28kmh as my full aero bike. And I don't feel like backwards when crossing an overpass
I think you nailed the whole thing here. What specilized is claiming is that the Sl8 is the fastest in all conditions, meaning not only in straight head wind. In other words they have changed the reference conditions for their claims and this is fully aligned with your findings on your own bikes.
Conditions are very important. Was in a race which went along a summit rd for 30km about 7yrs ago on my old carbon bike designed in 2008, so not particularly aero. Anway had my box section rims on, as that's all I had back then. We went down a fast descent to a saddle- 70 to 85kph usually, but got hit by this super strong side wind. Many guys riding their fancy deep section carbon wheels, were blown from right to left and no matter how much the tried couldn't stop themselves going off the side of the road with some falling off and tumbling into the grass. Even I struggled a bit fighting the wind, but due to my non-aero setup was able to continue albeit at 30 to 40kph but much better than 0kph compared to the guys standing beside their bikes, dusting themselves off! In that circumstance my bike was much more aero from the side at least!
For the amateur cyclist the difference between bikes in terms of speed is negligible. I just upgraded to an tarmac sl6 with electronic gears and disc brakes. It feels great riding it but speed is roughly the same.
You made a really good point about extra turbulence on an Aero frame, I thought I was crazy. I bought an Aero bike about a month ago with 55mm rims and it felt very very quick and smooth until it got windy and then it felt very very unstable. I bought smaller rims and it still feels unstable in certain conditions. Now I'm thinking I should buy a more lightweight bike paired with zipp 353 nsw's.
It really depends on the conditions, yes and using the right tool for the job. In my opinion aero bikes are fun and the speed is addictive, but their drawbacks need to be known and understood. Really they are bikes for hard efforts at high speeds on the flats. Anything else an all-around bike is better. Marketing pushed aero bikes for everyone, not great.
I don’t pay any attention to marketing hype as they’re in it for the money and not for the benefit of the consumer. Great video as always 👌🏾
Bike manufacturers will always do their best to sell you something they just came up with, they only care about how much money they will get from you not how fast you will go.
Like all other industries, it’s not specific to bikes. They’re businesses trying to sell things, they’re not your mates. Cyclists seem to think they have a special relationship with the industry
@@dh7314 I don't think I have a special relationship with bike manufacturers, but I will spend my money within reason and not fall for anything that comes my way. Lately it seems like the industry is moving towards ripping off cyclists as much as they can thinking they are all dentists.
I am a new and happy owner of a SL8 and I must say this video hits the point right on the head. I really enjoyed this, great content!
Thank you and congratulations for your new SL8!
Agree with you mate. Aero has gone out of fashion and Cervelo’s S5 offerings of years gone by look like ancient relics of a bygone era
And when the Tour is won on an R5, they paint in yellow the S5? Weird 😂
When they brought out the SL7 they changed the geometry, by making the head tube significantly shorter. The SL6 was one of the best handling bikes and much more comfy. Regarding to the fact, that about 70% is about position of the rider, you get your aero win there. But for most consumers, a head tube of 133mm in size M is unrideable without spacers. If you add them to your SL7/8 you will loose your advantage. And if anybody is lucky to have the SL6 rim brake version (especially the ultralight version), he will have a phenomenal light and well handling bike.
Yes, great point. Definitely SL7 and SL8 have very race geometry indeed.
And I bought my wife an used Bianchi Oltre XR4 with rim brakes and mechanical shifting. She says the best bike she's ever ridden.@@fede1275
Irrespective of the bike the shape and position of the rider is the greatest aerodynamic impedance
Finally, a sensible real world review. Thank you!
awesome bike design with input from a few top world tour riders. compare to the colnag, Pino, Willer ....? expensive fore sure. if people have the cash they can buy it for sure and it all just depenses on your budget. we can buy anthing we like i guess.
Same thing seems to be happening at Cannondale. They say their newer Supersix Evo (gen 4) is nearly as aero as their System Six. It's lighter, and from what I hear no less stiff but way more comfortable. So, unless they are making a newer better System Six, that model might go away
I feel the brands were not giving out the correct marketing when they wanted to sell their aero bikes. Aero for everyone even in mild climbs it's not working for the average rider that cannot sustain more than 30Km/h on the flat. Aero works if you work hard. Then they ended up with a lot of customers on sluggish bikes. Now they are pushing again lightweight bikes, but they need to tell them that they are also more aero! Crazy!
I run a carbon CX (Focus Mares from 2017) with road tires and light 45mm carbon wheels, I have put a longer stem and road pedals. I live in Hamburg, where hills are considered as mountains, and the moment I approach 30km/hr, any decent aero bike leaves me in the dust. BTW I am 1.83 in height and 90kg, and I compare myself with similar riders- I can also keep a good aero position. For places like Hamburg and around, a „lightweight“ aero bike like the Cube aero litening from 2020 onwards seems to make sense.
I agree with you 100%, it’s all marketing in my opinion, I own a Ribble Ultra SLR and absolutely love it, I live in Florida where it’s flat so it’s perfect for me here.
Absolutely, the right tool for the job!
It was a masterpiece of bike marketing, that's for sure. Engineers I trust posit that the aero gains are entirely due to the bars. I don't personally believe Specialized' claims about how each generation is X% better than the previous one. I find it is impossible to be true in real world conditions as opposed to some single wind tunnel test unrelated to real world conditions. Anyway it is all hypothetical for me at the price they want for one.
Yep, Throw those integrated bars on a Venge and we're back in business again
Yes, definitely the bars are pointed out by many as very aero.
Whilst I'm not here to back up specialized, aerodynamics is something we just cannot see. I think we will see a lot of developments in the near future that challenge our visual perceptions of what "areo" is.
Yes, because we were used to add the label "aero" to a bike that is profiled and efficient mainly at high speed in favourable wind conditions. Now it seems that the term is extended and almost overlapping to what we used to consider all-around or lightweight bikes.
40yrs bike mech, 15 yrs pro mech, utter utter overpriced clunkers, what's happening
Lol… D-day landing. Love it. :)
Good video !!
Yes. as a lighter rider, a lightweight non-aero frame suits me. Fast uphill and I’m less likely to be blown off-course on one too.
I think you need to get a pitot tube power meter setup and do the tests
Will do when I reach 400Km/h. I am not far...
At the final of day is so difficult to say the SL8 is as fast as another bikes. In my opinion is pure marketing and they’ve justified the price in this “upgrade”.
The claimed gains from SL7 to SL8 probably come mostly from the handlebars. The SL7 had a bar & stem combo with large frontal area of stem with bolts and all. The SL8 has an integrated cockpit. That's a materially smaller frontal area. Add the reduced frontal area of the headtube, and the gains from 7 to 8 are plausible.
Then imagine a Venge with the new handlebar 😂🚀
That is exactly what I thought.
I think the word aero can be interchanged with the word marketing in all of Specialized bikes
And for most of other manufacturers too!
Bingo. Precisely what I discussed with my good friend. Especially on the aero section, I wonder if those bike aero ‘experts’ are even more knowledgeable than Adrian Newey / Rory Byrne in aero? 😀
By the way, I wonder id your aero bike mimics that McLaren MP4/4? Did you root for Senna or Prost? 😂
At that time I could not believe how successful Senna was and I almost got annoyed. Then I realised he had been the most talented driver ever.
New Roval integrated bar and stem was also major part of the SL8 aero claim. I cloud put it on my SL6 and and bike would look more or less identical to SL8. Speed sniffer i will pass 😂
The new SL8 frame doesn't look that much more aero than the SL7, but I think it is hard to tell how it'd perform in reality since you can't see the air. That being said, I think Peak Torque did a video and he said that the majority of the aero gains came from the new handlebar. If true, maybe SL7 owners should just upgrade their bars if they really care about the marginal benefit and save $5-10k :P
Yes, I saw Peak Torque video and I agree with his remarks. However I believe, same as per the SL7, that the SL8 should be just called an all around bike, same as the the Colnago V4RS, Enve Melee, Cannondale SuperSix. With this low profile frames the aero advantage (or disadvantage depending on the conditions) are much lower than true aero bikes like the SystemSix, Ultra, S5 and so on.
Becoz big brand love to bullsh*t their way. Basic marketing tactics. Mostly is about the rider than the ride.
It seems to be a case of the venge being old enough to now be outdone in weight and aerodynamics by the sl8 designed around newer UCI rules and the new handlebar. This is probably why they keep using the venge as the comparison. I have no doubt that the new aero bikes are faster in a straight flat than the sl8 and no one from specialized has claimed otherwise. Cannondale also admits that the systemsix is still more aero than the supersix
Yes, maybe it is like that. By why keep calling the SL8 an aero bike? Same as the Colnago V4RS, they are all-around bikes, definitely not something like a Venge, SystemSix, Ultra or Foil.
@@fede1275 Exactly, as Millicente and also you said in the video: It's all down to interpretation - new version might be faster due to the following things: more aerodynamic integrated handlebar (better Cd and also better A), flatter stem, which forces you in a lower, more aerodynamic position, despite similar stack and reach between Venge and this one. And because body produces main drag, the position is most important (far more than frame). Frame is also thinner (so lower "A" in CdA, this might reduce a bit of an advantage of aero shape of the Venge). I believe that these claims are not only frame-specific, but consider whole package, also a cyclist, riding the bike and this one has quite aggressive geometry (as you explained, don't look only reach and stack, but also angles, like stem angle, seat tube angle...). Moreover, wheels are most probably more aerodynamic than those wheels on the older Venge... (they put 80 mm in the back, most probably they are also wider...). And tires are most probably better also, so they might take them into account? Said that, I think all this is negligible for us mortals :) Not mentioning the outrageous price. At the end, Venge still looks much better :)
I guess you can now ride these on the Motorway they're so fast! or am i falling for Bulls Hit.
I am just curious as to why you are not into colnago or other italian bike manufacturers?
@charlesmansplaining I see. Did you have an italian bike before?
Just cost vs benefit at the moment. My dream bike is a Dogma F rim brakes.
@@fede1275 I see. Thank you, pinarello should notice and give you one. I like your videos keep at it
@@melbexdeleon8951 I hope they do 😄
bike weight and rider body position over aero every day of the week for the average rider.....and RE body position i'd personally say comfort over trying to contort yourself into a pro position makes for a far more enjoyable ride. But that's for us average joes. Aero for the pro's of course who ride at warp speed and can justify the marginal gains.
Lol..great content..but i dont understand all the fuss about one bike.if you like the bike and money isnt an issue then buy it..if you dont like it or consider it too expensive then dont buy it..folks have options....i think the hate and the fussin isnt about the actual bike itself but about the hefty pricetag..ive learned in life everything isnt for everybody..get what you like and can afford...its just that simple..
Actually the SL8 is as close as possible to my ideal bike design, apart from discs. In this video I don't question the price or the engineering choices, but its marketing positioning. This is a great all-around bike that is portrayed as an aero bike. After the marketing had been feeding aero for such a long time, everyone feel the need to attach the aero tag regardless.
Hilarious
Unless your one of the top riders in the world where fractions of seconds matter all the hype on bikes being faster is laughable. The only thing that will make a bike faster is the one that is doing the necessary training protocols and implementing with the intention to improve upon muscular endurance in regards to sustained power for performance .
Think about it let’s put a pro on a 1000$ used bike and a solid cyclist on an sl8 and see who is faster on a 15 mile ride.
Honestly most that will buy and ride these bikes that are not sponsored are not riding that fast anyhow . I see drs and wealthy guys in Beverly Hills daily riding 10-15 k bikes and rarely riding faster then 18 mph as I typically ride 19-25 mph on flats 270-340 wts and cruise past most of them constantly .
I agree, but at rhe same time we all want to dream of being a pro rider. I would just want to know from marketing the correct spec and feature of a product, while things seem to be mixed up too much in the industry.
SL8 aerodynamics improved by creating a frame with a “Roman Nose”😂
I am already a speed sniffer 😂😂
Good idea. Nose peice. Could be a hit!
I ride a Tarmac SL7 and I’m sometimes faster on an old CAAD12 alloy rim brake bike. A bit lighter than the Tar SL7.
If I ride in the drops and the conditions are right my average time is faster. Body position, level of fitness, terrain, watts per kilo, power output etc is so important.
It’s not what you ride it’s how you ride.
I think we will see a return to the more traditional round tubing with a touch of aero and steer away from the marketing BS. Top Tier
SL8 $18’000 AUD. Ultra/SRAM Force $11,000 AUD way to much. The profit margin is to big
That's very true. But overall I am not against marketing and expensive builds. I am just concerned when good marketing becomes absurd and tries too hard.
@@fede1275 I forgot to say I bought the Tarmac SL7 Expert in a sale 33% off. When the SL8 came in. I’m glad I didn’t pay full price. It’s worth about the deducted price I’d say 👍
@@sapiens7821 sounds like a good deal!
How about the claim from a certain wheel maker that under the right condition, their wheel produces NEGATIVE drag coefficient... or LIFT. Pu those wheels on this bike and you won't have to pedal. 😂👍
I believe I can fly... 😂
The sl8 looks ugly. They've really left the plantation on this one. Sworks buyers will upgrade no matter what Specialized sells.
Maybe it really sworks...
You dont even need to make good bikes these days, you just need a good marketing department.
Perfect strategy!
It being faster is not the point of the bike, this bike is just for showing off. and there are better and far more beautiful bikes for that.
Lightweight aero bikes have been around for ages. You don't need 2 bikes anymore. If you really believe aero makes a difference 😂 bike people are funny, so much hate for other brands. Fyi I don't own a specialized but when canyon releases their new "faster" ultimate I'll be waiting for your video....
They already started with the new Endurace, fastest ever...!
@@fede1275 it's all nonsense. Aero bikes are useless for most people unless pro when we are talking about seconds making a difference. . People buy aero but can't hold an aero position for more than 5 minutes. Buy a bike that handles well, or geometry suits you so you can be in a aero position indefinitely, or is comfortable to ride etc. Dont buy for aero gains it's all marketing for ANY brand.
@@MarcraM82 I still get a lot of fun riding the aero bike I have, but we need to be conscious of its characteristics and purpose. It's to go fast while ridden hard on the flat!
I love this video
Please put camera on tripod instead of holding it bro
I know quality is not the best, but I feel more natural this way. If I put it on a tripod I get stuck 😖
i still love my pinarello dogma F !!!!!
Me too, in my dreams!
Italian brand bikes will never go wrong !!! Forza bici Italiano !!!!
Sell your old bikes and get the new Tarmac.
They wouldn't be enough for a third of it 😂
Sell real performance bikes for a disc brake cyclocross bike with road tires? Good one 😂
A Lamborghini Countach looks aerodynamic, but it’s about as aerodynamic as a brick. To imply that it’s just marketing is an insult to the people who work so hard to create SL8.
I guess it's the marketing message that does not do justice to the SL8 engineers. They created an all-around bike that possibly performs better in most situations. Why then do the jump and push the bike almost as their fastest and most aero ever? Where they wrong when they tested the Venge or the SystemSix in the wind tunnel? Has physics changed? Would the SL8 be faster than even more profiled bikes than Ribble Ultra or Scott Foil or a TT bike? Who is right or wrong? Personally I like lightweight bikes more, but I don't like mixed messages.
And a lot of the bike industry’s marketing claims are an insult to the customers.
Unless you have carry out an independent test to verify their claims to be untrue, then you're using speculation as fact in your comment.
@@dblock8829 Since forever, bikes get lighter, stiffer, and more areo every year. At present time, they should weigh about 3 kg, have no compliance left at all and be practically unvisible to the air. Nothing like that has came to be, as you know. We are talking marginal gains under very specific conditions, as Fede elaborated on in the video.
Example: I swapped from a Cube gravel bike (aluminum) to a semi-aero Pinarello, and at training speeds around 30 km/h it was a gain of 1 km/h if I am generous. Maybe at higher speeds this gets amplified, but on the other hand, if you go race speed, it will be mostly in a gruppetto, where areo is nothing all of a sudden.
Who is in need of backing up their bold claims is the industry. But they don’t, because they can’t. Everybody would be interested. But it’s always only some broad statement, no details given. Which, as a prospective buyer, I appreciate and feel good about my purchase, but has no value for an engineer.
@@dblock8829 of course, but logic should be applied a bit more when we look at marketing claims. You see the progression of frame shapes between lightweight bikes to TT bikes and we do draw conclusions when a new product is launched and the claims seems to go in a different direction.
Most of your opinions on this video are wrong and it's as dishonest as specialized's marketing. First of all, you can't see aero. Secondly, aero bikes shine in crosswinds, they might be less stable, but are statistically faster. And finally, specialized didn't get the ideia for the speed sniffer from that TCR with the add on. Specialized had an oversized front on their Triathlon bike from like 2007
Of course I am wrong, as everyone else in the subject. Let's change the name to Cannonale: were they wrong to say the SystemSix is the fastest? Would now say thew SuperSix is even faster? It always depends on the circumstances. Would you ride a grand tour on a TT bike? Would you ride a TT on a lightweight bike? I am just saying it is the wrong marketing to say the SL8 is the fastest of all.
@@fede1275 They didn't say the SuperSix was faster on the flat than the SystemSix. They said it was faster uphill. The Cda os the SystemSix is still lower according to their white paper.
@@DaM.1 great, then I'm arguing how the SL8 is faster than the Venge then 😄
@@fede1275 Once again, you can't see aerodynamics. New cockpit is the main difference. Frames don't matter that much
“Most of your opinions on this video are wrong” 🤓, brother…… please hear yourself talk
Still heavy, flexy pile of junk
Ridiculously overpriced of course as usual... soon those discs will rub if they arent already.