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Bra Ike you made is very SIMPLE, u broke it down to the simplest form for everyone to understand. You didnt need all the political jargon...thank you...
Here is a question Pen, please ask Rutendo if he does acknowledge Zanu's bad governance is the reason why there is mass migration into SA? Because the Zim situation and tribal hate in the country is not on Sanctions
Ask Rutendo why he has so many solutions for South Africa's problems but doesn't want to go back home and apply that big brain of his to his country's problems, the guy doesn't even want to go home to vote.
My question is do these guys really think Africa will be 'liberated' or stable with Integration? Shouldn't we try to push for segration? Get one country to share a similar way of life and culture. Clearly pan Africanism has not worked as a concept the outputs is horrendous to say the least. There is no accountability, listening to Rutendo all Zim problems start with SA and ends with SA. My question is: 1. Is integration (pan Africanism) as concept working for South Africa or Africa? 2. Are Zim actually able to find solutions to their own problems instead of blaming everyone even dbsa or sabc. I mean Pen talks a lot about an alternative to SA media that's what you guys have done with podcasts. Why isn't there a Zim podcaster doing the samething creating the alternative.
@@NinohBrown Integration has been shoved down our throats globally as something desirable and anyone who dares question it as the best way to structure our societies is immediately attacked as being a racist and/or xenophobe. It's a fact that societies that are homogenous in terms of language, cultures, ethnicities and a possess a single shared national identity tend to be more socially cohesive. Look at Japan, The Scandanavian countries, China, etc. Pan-Africanism will never work, too much variation in language, and culture in Africa. We are already contending with tribalism in S.A, now imagine if we tried integrating all these different tribes and cultures into one.
As a foreigner I am grateful to South Africa bcoz there is no other country that would have allowed me to accomplish what I have living as a free Black Man...South African people and institutions have welcomed me and I dont consider them hostile or irrational...People must also understand that South Africa is a Post-Colonial State and there is a limit to its capacity given its own challenges...SA has done a lot more for Africans than other African Countries have or would have done...SA doesn't have infinite capacity so people have to deal with that at some point
As a foreigner, I agree with you 100 percent. Also I think it's important to state that these two do not represent everyone. Rutendo and Ike do not represent everyone.
How I wish Politicians would fix the country so people don’t feel threatened anymore. I wish that we would live in harmony. I love myself so much that I see myself in every black person.
As a foreigner, I feel incredibly grateful to South Africa. This country has bestowed upon us a valuable gift: protection, education, and freedom that many of us lacked in our home countries. I strongly believe that history should be made mandatory in education systems worldwide. By learning about the past, we can educate ourselves and avoid repeating the same mistakes. History has the power to guide us and save us from a lot of unnecessary trouble. Thank you, South Africa, for being a beacon of hope and opportunity for so many of us.
My only concern is why are you QUIET when the other foreigners are doing all these things that South Africans are labelling and painting you blacker than black? Why don't you call out and shame your brothers who are not seen as Africans in South Africa. You need to be seen to be doing something not just praise South Africa!
China and other African countries was sanctioned as well but you'll never hear Chinese those other African countries pointing fingers, only the Zimbabweans and why are they all flocking to SA
South Africans were in their country fighting their struggle, our uncles and aunts were ducking bullets, didn't pack their bags , Zimbabweans are fighting their struggle on social media in foreign lands and hope for change, can't even go for few days to go vote, this blackmail by Zimbabweans around history doesn't hold any waters, if you love your country that much you'll fight for it like South Africans did
You were given freedom not independence…you won the wrong war hence the economy is still in the hands of the oppressor and you have nothing to show for it
Ike speaks about practical issues that we from the ghettos of SA relate very well with , while Rutendo is speaking more from an academic and research led narrative , but we need more of these conversations , and the facilitator has done his homework.
Rutendo is starting to sound like that friend who plugged you with a job and start feeling entitled to your salary forever , we can't be held hostage by history and entitlement
I cant even buy a house in my own country let alone get an RDP so a Zimbabwean is entitled to my rights as a citizen of South Africa. Basically Retendo is saying we owe Zimbabweans every thing we have. A South African has no right to own rights. Zimbabwean saved us so we owe them our Constitutional rights.
Sit down gentlemen the episode wasn't about history lessons. It was about the issue of foreigners in our country. Your Rutendo guy was tweaking history for benefit anyway
As a Zimbabwean who lives in Zimbabwe I think Ike is on point Zimbabweans should just come back home and deal with our economy and leave South Africans to deal with their challenges. Ordinary South Africans don't owe anyone anything
I agree. They voted to chase farmers out and destroy an economy, just like we are doing. If you vote for this you must suffer. Don't chase farmers out and then come to their country looking for food. Rather watch your brother's doing exactly the same in our criminally run junk status.
It's not that easy, I think what South African should've done is make a case to lift all those sanctions cause you guys might not have the resources, that would go a long way in balancing both states.
Well done to you for being open minded enough to allow yourself to be taught at your adulthood stage... Check the comments people are more angry and emotional than allowing themselves to learn
When Zimbabwe Mozambique opens its mouth it's all lies to push a narrative. Everything coming out of Zimbabwe is anti white yet tell white South Africa and the world where is white Rhodesia today? Now we must fund these people, keep dreaming. If South Africa doesn't get ab immediate handel on a "never ending liberation struggle" against South Africa it's going to be far worse than apartheid! The international community ALREADY pushing a successful regime change, if the come into our borders where does black South Africa go then?
According to him it's South Africans fault hebanna this guy instead of fighting for your own country he sat more than an hour hour saying South Africa this South Africa that
Rutendo debate is aimed at blaming RSA for Zim problems, we do not owe Zimbabwe a cent, this debate is out of context, are we now in a history class or the issue of foreigners in RSA? to be precise not only Zim but all foreigners at large.
He will not talk of migration koz it's his uncles the Shona who are in power looting and mismanaging the economy him he is a beneficiary of the system he will never say anything bad about them unomsangano enhlokweni yakhe
Zimbabweans tend to look down on South Africans, they have this condescending attitude towards us and continue to call us lazy yet they are enjoying the fruits of our labour
The country doesnt belong to you because you have an ID. We all belong to SA with our mixed heritage. Africa is one and let that sink in your head. You rather love and embrace whites and indians and hate those who look like you and related to you😂😂
Uyazi i was surprised to see Ike in the driving mood cruising so well he really didn't disappoint like Rutendo who had no points at all.Rutendo went overdrive trying to obscure the burning issue of immigration.there is this lie that Zanu and Mugabe contributed in assisting ANC to fight the Apartheid government it really irritates me because Zanu even arrested some MK comrades for having links with Zapu
Ike won this debate. Rutendo is smart, but does not have a sufficient argument as to why Zimbabweans and other illegal foreigners should be in South Africa. We have to be for South Africans first. No other country in the world allows illegal foreigners to do what they want in their country except for South Africa.
I am from Botswana, we too are tired of Zimbabweans. Truly. We are tired of their crimes. Harassing our women. We are tired. Ike is right that there are certain crimes that you know right away are perpetuated by Zims. I support the put South Africans first movement. You can't be oppressed by other Africans in your own country.
What's confusing me is that Zimbabweans have so many answers for South Africa (how South african economy should be structured) yet they can't solve Zimbabwean' economic situation... HAI ngeke bafwethu ake nizame okunye. Why study South African problems in such a way that you can even come up with solutions but can't come up with solutions for your own economy...
Angola Played such a huge role in the liberation struggle of Namibia..and thats why until today an Angolan is not seen as a foreigner in Namibia..personally as a child of someone who was raised in refugee camps..My father taught me to show gratitude and love to the people of Angola,Tanzania ,Zambia and Cuba..they went out of their way for Namibia 🇳🇦🇳🇦….and we shall pass on that gratitude to many of our generations to come.
West Africans flooding our borders? Africa is about to find itself in a huge war. Everywhere globalism as back fired, and you keep pushing anti white nonsense for what Latin Europe not white People do . The time is a ALREADY here as blacks are rising up against each other because of west Africa
We have been carrying Zimbabweans for 30years now, sacrificing our children future.We get arrogance, infrastructure destruction,betrayal, entertainment..Yet no Zimbabweans are pushing nor fighting their struggle, but happy and wanting our citizenship taking our Governoment to court😢
They have no pride shame... they want to be something they are not so badly... they must go home... we are busy dealing with ANC bona they love ANC... they taking us back... go home and vote. Finish n klaar.
Why do you get bothered by other Africans in your country? , there are plenty of South Africans here in Zambia we are not bothered because we do not view it as okay to hate or wish for any fellow African to feel unwelcomed, I feel other countries need to start being hostile towards you south africans in their countries, make sure you do not need any other African countries for anything! Yall should be worried about the whites who have always been in your countries stealing from you since time in memorial yet you are here complaining about other countries working in your countries its disgusting that most of you feel so independent & better than other African countries we should have left yall alone during apartheid. Yall are lazy and ungrateful chasing foreigners whole give all South Africans jobs and degrees its just ridiculous and appalling.
I feel grateful as a Kenyan to have had the opportunity to hear the diverse perspectives of Icke Khumalo and Rutendo Matinyarare. Their insightful ideas highlight the significance of history in understanding our present challenges. While acknowledging our past, it's essential not to dwell on it excessively, recognizing that today's issues differ somewhat from those of the past. As Africans in the 21st century, we must approach our challenges comprehensively as a continent. With the advancements in technology and access to information, we have the tools to enhance our economies and formulate effective policies. It's crucial to utilize these resources wisely, ensuring they're not squandered through corruption and mismanagement. Furthermore, we should move away from the culture of blaming others for our setbacks. While recognizing past mistakes is important, dwelling on them serves no purpose. Instead, we should focus on reclaiming our self-reliance and working towards prosperity. I envision a unified Africa where countries collaborate, share ideas, capital, and resources for mutual benefit.
Great history debate. We understand history is needed for context. But please address current issue's facing Zimbabwe & South Africa with illegal immigration.
ANC headquarters was based in Zambia & our country was independent from 1964 yet Rutendo underplays its role & overestimates Zim' s role that was only independent since 1980. Tanzania & Angola was also a frontline state with Zambia but we dont have this level of entitlement on SA! Let SA live please geez!
@@zakhemabaso6644 eswatini & Lesotho are indirectly province's of S.A. your population works here so if I were you I'll keep quiet cause the spotlight will be on you and you will wish you never say what you said we owe you big( O)
All that this conversation showed me is that people feel we owe them our lives! We are nothing without them. So they can do as they please. That's why we are not speaking about the current situation but stating the lies that happened over 40 years ago.
yet you have south africans in europe , china , amerika and even other african coutnries...there are many boers in sadc....so we will continue to come to SA whether you like it or not
My uncle is a MK veterans he said in Zimbabwe his friends were killed by Zimbabwean. He said they hated south africans in exil they treated us less than humans. This guy Rutendo is a liar
The ignancy in here is Horrible The white Opp ressors are loving these comments by Black people Rutendo is partially responsible for getting sanctions lifted in Zim, and some of you dare to call him a liar… smh shame shame shame
It is a strategy, they train you to dominate the discussion and talk too long so that the opponent and the interviewer does not get the chance to question you. You control the narrative.
@@jabulilemlaka6253Because the solution starts with free and fair elections in Zim, something ZANU PF will never accept. And he makes it a point to not touch even the low hanging fruit.
Our immigration policy is ok but ur climbing crocodile in Limpopo river so immigration policy won’t apply to illegal foreigners as crocodiles can’t stamp passports 😂
This is epic. Let's have an audience next time that will have a chance to ask questions. And journalists. Also try to establish order coz there is more of a quarrel than dialogue.
I agree with my South African brother our Zimbabweans brothers must start concentrating to free their country and go back to fight their evil government than rather live on easy street
That’s all we are preaching and want from Zim, if that day happens I will personally help Zim achieve that. But folding arms with no cause of action, isn’t going to liberate Zim.
"The Only borders that irritate people seems to be South Africa's borders"... Author Unknown... But without even listening to the conversation, African, Pakistani, Chinese, European Countries, where their so called 'leaders' and making their countries seemingly not a conducive place to stay in or a happy place to be, must start making their countries attractive for their citizens to return... Cause it is not being Xenophobic, but facts are facts, cause we are competing for basic and other economic opportunities, especially in the small business sector. The entire JHB CBD small business sector has been overly flooded by non South Africans - and those small businesses for the most part does not employ any South Africans... And the level of criminal activities conducted by many many many of these folk is insurmountable... Why does everyone not all flock to Zimbabwe for example, or to Botswana, so that South Africa can get a bit of a breather to find its own footing.
The reason why the South African boarder seems to irritate people is tantamount to why the American boarders irritate people... South Africa is one of the few countries that have resources and the level of education many seek for, also South Africa has adopted western culture, is a well spoken country in English amongst many, provides benefits to foreigners and unlike America (of which I currently reside for the past 4 years) is much more easier to enter more than many African countries! Our government does not take priority to South African people, but cares more about the housing of people seeking refugee and using them as commodities to suit their own personal agendas. We cannot deny the fact that there's many illegal foreigners (I'd argue more than documented foreigners) in our country and they benefit alot more than our own people. This is a fight bigger than us, we need true intervention.
@@TheBoringGuySAthis is really sad for us ordinary citizens of SA. What do u of Gayton Mackenzie who’s vocal about these issues and he put all SAns first?
Problem we have is a 1 way traffic to our strenuous economy also with the crimes these people create and I am 1 of those South Africans who say hell to borderless Africa.
Ike, thank you for representing us the ordinary South African so well. Haaayi wena Rutendo you are high on something i believe because this 'sense of entitlement' is sickening 💔 it's giving a not woke person vibe😢... You can't still be holding on to history like the ANC is... heal my brother from the ancient wounds, and go back to your own countries (all foreigners) and deal with your own struggles for the sake of your children and leave us alone to deal with ours as you can clearly see that we are engulfed by our own troubles... South Africa can not house the whole of Africa, it does not have unlimited resources as you can clearly see because you 🙄 live here, even if we maybe owed you for what your countries did for us a loooong time ago when they did, we surely must have paid our debt now. Ike said something very important that even if our people ran to other countries for refuge it was but only a few of them NOT the entire SA bathong. Don't be helping our government with it's porous laws to oppress the people of this country. ALL FOREIGNERS MUST JUST GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES EXCEPT FOR THOSE COMING HERE WITH SCARCE SKILLS.
Yeah, i did not expect him to have the patience to entertain the well spoken time wasting Rutendo. Unfortunately the history doesn't help the current situation
To the Minister and Ministry....Can Home affairs create platforms where we can report Foreigners with identity documents.....Please Please...so that they can produce documentation
@penual - Please ask the two gentlemen this questions: Health and Social Services: How can South Africa's health and social service systems accommodate both the needs of its own citizens and the foreign population, particularly in terms of access, affordability, and quality?
I believe part of the solution is for people like Ike to use his influence to force the government to de-register and remove a lot of the foreign funded NGOs who push a human rights agenda that destabilises society.
Rutendo creates stories, if Ike focused on clarifying his mentally created history, the interview was not going to discuss any relevant current issues. Ike swayed the interview to mention the current challenges. Ww all know history and we are talking about current issues.
Rutendo is campaigning for Mnangakwa ZanuPF right now and saying he is a best leader for Zimbabwe, it is mind boggling that he lives in South Africa, alot of Zimbabweans are complaining about ZanuPF but still vote for them
I worked as a casual in Fast food industry in Cape Town with many other young South Africans years today you won't find much South Africans, doing these jobs last night my way home I found a young gentlemen about 20 years old scrounging in garbage for food, I drove past turned around gave him some canned food I had in my car he was so grateful for the little I shared extremely well spoken, I have nothing against Foreigners but we have to ask who is gonna look out for our people? Over heard a Pakistani looking from someone to work 8 to 5 Monday to Sunday for R400 Rands a week? If we don't take those jobs we lazy?
I am correct in saying Matinyarare's intro is referring to immigration during an " ARMS STRUGGLE" in SA. Only a handful of SAns went into exile to various African countries due to the apartheid regime. This is not the type of immigration exodus that SA is seeing today. Most Africans are entering SA today with the INTENTION to grab opportunities from SAns NOT to replan/calculate ways on how to go back to their countries and fight for change. The immigration situation in SA today cannot be compared to what Rutendo is talking about..
This is a very informative conversation. I don't think there's a country in the African continent that would accept foreign nationals to take over major cities, perpetuate human trafficking, drug dealing, dominate the general labour force and commit heinous crimes.
Ike is an advocate, his argument capabilities are clear and well structured. Benson is a good historian, talking about the past... The current situation seemed out of his reach.
Summing up what Rutendo is saying Zimbos are never going to fight their leaders they came to repay themselves for helping SA indefinitely🤔 interesting.
They never really helped 😅. Mugabe refused to helped SA many times they say. This guy is not entirely telling the truth. He's taking glory in what other African countries did. Open your eyes please SA. You owe nothing to these people.
Please dont judge Zimbabweans based on this guys views, he represents The Zimbabweans government, not the the ordinary Zimbabweans in South Africa, we are grateful that you allowed us to stay, and we dont feel entitled at all ,we are at the mercy of your generosity, Thank you South Africa
From my conversation with immigrants working in SA, they say that they want EFF to win so that the borders can be open. So I would think that, that is what they are waiting for.
Absolutely! That's pretty much what it is in a nutshell and that's what SAns are saying over and over but they continue to be invalidated and called names.
This is only true when you expect your government to provide everything for you. South Africans really are children of the failing ANC. Look at all the biggest empires of the world; You cant become one without foreigners. So comrade, I would adopt anyone as long as they contribute to the empowerment of my family. e.g British Common Wealth, China, UNITED STATES of A and EU.
The only solution and remedy to this problem of foreigners this is the take responsibility of their own countries regardless of which country they come from
As an Angolan ur brothers I love to see this kind of respectful conversation I would like to see more of this, and in some points I understand the Southafrican side coz in Angola happens similar things our brothers from Congo some of them migrate there to do crime is hurts twice coz they r our brothers.
@@mandlenkosihlazo977 It abit difficult coz of the politics u need to be really persistent but is full of opportunity, nowadays Is full of people from Senegal, Eritrea, Mali they r on the grocery store business and people from Congo man They r Angolan too they are day since day 1 ahahahahaha
Ghana and Nigeria experienced the same where they actually mass deported each other, each country has limited resources for its citizens, bringing a whole continent into that one country creates a big problem, Where I live it’s a war zone at night , typing this now an illegal mining explosion just went off
Isaac he knows very well about the current issues but he chooses to act as though they dont exist because acknowledging the issues honestly and truthfully would be an admission of guilt
I understand Ike very well 🤔🤞🏾🙏🏾as South African we never had any problems with our foreign brothers up until they see us as lazy people to be fed with drugs, crime and human trafficking etc. Anyway Thanks Penuel and your guest Ike and Rutendo this was greatest debate we need more please 🙏🏾🤞🏾🙌🏾
Ike is massive, he represented us well. Penuel please defend Ike on his time too. Rutendo gets more time, and he chows Ike's time too with interfering on every sentence Ike makes. However, this conversation made me appreciate South Africa more, and also learn history and see how more we can be united as Africans.
That history is irrelevant to the topic: South Africans didn't migrate to African countries but it was cadres who were deployed for military training...not mass migration
for you to have this half freedom of yours a lot of african countries which you now treat like scum sacrifised themselves for the cause of a free Africa but it seems like that was all in vain as south africans are cowards . you would rather lick the feet of your colonizer rthan help and stand with the guys who helped you when you were oppressed. Nothing lasts forever my man and we as the next generation in zimbabwe wont forget , you seem to forget you are still colonized rock bottom is coming and no one in africa is going to help you , you have shown your true colours
if south africa was under sanctions you would migrate into other countries....by the way there are MANY south africans living abroad, in canada, amerika, europe, and we have many of YOUR RACIST BOERS, in our countries.....so i dont know what you are talking about...
From the first day I saw that mans posts on Twitter I was this is the man who has facts. Especially like back then because I can relate with a lot Ike said.
This is the most civil debate I have ever seen. No unnecessary emotions (anger etc.) raised from the participants. They could all laugh together and air their different opinions.
@@honordiamond2548Oh give over. He was just more articulate. Put his argument forward better and tried to be factual where possible. Ike tried to get personal.
What an informative session. The debate was interesting and educational in various ways. Looking forward to more engaging discussions like this one. Thanks to you to host both Ike and Rutendo. There's still hope in Africa!
INTERVIEWER is fear guy for both of them and I like that thank you too beside nice conversation for African learn from our brothers here thank you again
The main issue with SOME foreigners in South Africa is that not only are they jealous of South Africa they dont believe it is allowed to be a sovereign nation because they think we owe them something yet they are unable to hold their governments accountable to provide a comfortable life they see us living here - The "ubuntu" we had in SA for the whole world is what now put us in this position to be called xenophobic in our own country- Also Notice how Rutendo can only speak about history - these guys are stuck in the past , because they have absolutely nothing to show for what they built in their countries today ! Arg no man !
I don’t think you understand the meaning of ‘context’ in a debate. And you certainly failed to grasp the Pan African message from Rutendo. Remove the hate in your heart, the real enemy wants this division in Africa.
@@FictionHubZA look, I 100% support the fact that illegal foreigners need to be arrested and deported. As someone who came here by the book I can tell you now it’s not an easy process but it’s a process that must be followed. I also hate criminality and don’t condone criminal behaviour of any kind. That being said, sometimes it does feel like SA’ns just don’t like other Africans even ones that are here through proper means and contribute to society.
Most of them carry this notion that South Africa owes rhem something. I dont know where this thing comes from because it was ordinary South Africans in townships that fought the apartheid regime pitting their bodies on the line. They carry this notion that they helped us and we are indebted to them.
@@nqobizithajacobsingini7580 Where are you from? You have to see the source of the problem. If Africans bring crime and other unwanted things then all of them will be seen as such. The impact of uncontrolled illegal immigration affects them all as a group. But if we only allow those who are successful and clean then all these stereotypes would disappear. Don't blame the reaction. Blame the source of the conflict.
I can not say for sure that he's misleading with his history but I get where you are coming from Ike could've done better with countering some historical "facts"
Growing up in Durban Point, I had the opportunity to experience a vibrant community filled with diversity. Unfortunately, like many foreigner kids, I witnessed the negative impact of crime and drug-related issues. It's crucial for all of us, regardless of our background, to join forces in the fight against crime. We must report those individuals who are ungrateful for the opportunities provided by this country and are contributing to criminal activities. Together, we can create a safer environment and build a better future for everyone. Let's stand united against crime and work towards a brighter tomorrow.
These points being debated are so irrelevant.We dont want a history lesson.We want know why Zimbabweans are in SA in numbers but they are so clever, but cant even change the situation in their country of birth.
This was interesting. Two intelligent men, well informed in history and present issues. The only problem I have was that the present issues addressed by Adv Ike were pushed aside by Rutendo in a manner that suggested they are justified because Zim helped South Africa. If people are hijacking jobs from South Africans by taking pay cuts, Rutendo never said anything on that. He is only talking history, history and history! It's not a solution. I think they should be given topics so they focus on them and not get off topic to express irrelevant knowledge.
I like how Ike is outlining socioeconomic factors that are currently sabotaging our economy. On the other side Rudento is focusing on history that doesn't bult to this debate. Big to Ike
He is living in past. It's gone...... that's why its called History. In South Africa... we live for now.....preparing for our children's future. Makasiyeke thina ngeHis story yakhe.
Especially the Ndebele people who have never known independence in Zimbabwe,the Rutendo just lies and speaks positive of ZANU,who have never done a single good thing
@wandamaze2867 we have always welcomed all people living here 1st…we are saying our capacity is limited now. If Sa is Xenophobic you would’ve never even entered the country. Zim ndebeles are regarded as foreigners cause we still have boarders unfortunately and when it comes December time you all go back to Zim to see your families.
@wandamaze2867but Ndebele people want to come back to Sa it is not a problem…the problem is the resources we have and the bad economy now that we have. Stop letting the news poison into thinking that SA people hate Zim people.
Ike...i like it when you mentioned that Zimbabweans they label them selves as refugees but come December and April Easter holidays they go back home.....what type of refugee have free movement as they wish ?? Kumnandi emzantsi....
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Bra Ike you made is very SIMPLE, u broke it down to the simplest form for everyone to understand. You didnt need all the political jargon...thank you...
Here is a question Pen, please ask Rutendo if he does acknowledge Zanu's bad governance is the reason why there is mass migration into SA? Because the Zim situation and tribal hate in the country is not on Sanctions
Ask Rutendo why he has so many solutions for South Africa's problems but doesn't want to go back home and apply that big brain of his to his country's problems, the guy doesn't even want to go home to vote.
My question is do these guys really think Africa will be 'liberated' or stable with Integration? Shouldn't we try to push for segration? Get one country to share a similar way of life and culture.
Clearly pan Africanism has not worked as a concept the outputs is horrendous to say the least. There is no accountability, listening to Rutendo all Zim problems start with SA and ends with SA.
My question is:
1. Is integration (pan Africanism) as concept working for South Africa or Africa?
2. Are Zim actually able to find solutions to their own problems instead of blaming everyone even dbsa or sabc. I mean Pen talks a lot about an alternative to SA media that's what you guys have done with podcasts. Why isn't there a Zim podcaster doing the samething creating the alternative.
@@NinohBrown Integration has been shoved down our throats globally as something desirable and anyone who dares question it as the best way to structure our societies is immediately attacked as being a racist and/or xenophobe. It's a fact that societies that are homogenous in terms of language, cultures, ethnicities and a possess a single shared national identity tend to be more socially cohesive. Look at Japan, The Scandanavian countries, China, etc. Pan-Africanism will never work, too much variation in language, and culture in Africa. We are already contending with tribalism in S.A, now imagine if we tried integrating all these different tribes and cultures into one.
As a foreigner I am grateful to South Africa bcoz there is no other country that would have allowed me to accomplish what I have living as a free Black Man...South African people and institutions have welcomed me and I dont consider them hostile or irrational...People must also understand that South Africa is a Post-Colonial State and there is a limit to its capacity given its own challenges...SA has done a lot more for Africans than other African Countries have or would have done...SA doesn't have infinite capacity so people have to deal with that at some point
Thank you!
Tell them pls
As a foreigner, I agree with you 100 percent. Also I think it's important to state that these two do not represent everyone. Rutendo and Ike do not represent everyone.
Well said, thank you 🙏🏻
How I wish Politicians would fix the country so people don’t feel threatened anymore. I wish that we would live in harmony. I love myself so much that I see myself in every black person.
As a foreigner, what is happening in SA other countries wnt tolerate it i dnt blame south africans when they are angry .
I hate all foreigners living our country
That is true
GO TO YOUR COUNTRY THEN
The must remove the really enemies and that are the colonizers not the Africans!
Thank you for bringing that South African advocate who is so clear and honest about the South African situation.
😊😊
100 million dollars every day? This Rutando is smoking something strong.
Rutendo is good at addressing history but not current issues. He says nothing about part-time refugees who go home Easter and Christmas.
lol part-time refugees 😂
😂😂😂
I think what he is saying, is difficult for you to understand.
Rutendo is a clown. He just reads history and comes to these podcasts to talk nonsense. The guy doesn’t believe Friday comes before Saturday.
It's everybody's fault but Zimbabwe 😅
As a foreigner, I feel incredibly grateful to South Africa. This country has bestowed upon us a valuable gift: protection, education, and freedom that many of us lacked in our home countries. I strongly believe that history should be made mandatory in education systems worldwide. By learning about the past, we can educate ourselves and avoid repeating the same mistakes. History has the power to guide us and save us from a lot of unnecessary trouble. Thank you, South Africa, for being a beacon of hope and opportunity for so many of us.
No sense of intitlement in your response, you're a brother of mine, and I wish the best for you and your family
BOT
My only concern is why are you QUIET when the other foreigners are doing all these things that South Africans are labelling and painting you blacker than black? Why don't you call out and shame your brothers who are not seen as Africans in South Africa. You need to be seen to be doing something not just praise South Africa!
China and other African countries was sanctioned as well but you'll never hear Chinese those other African countries pointing fingers, only the Zimbabweans and why are they all flocking to SA
@maxwellmabuza1988 so true hey..
South Africans were in their country fighting their struggle, our uncles and aunts were ducking bullets, didn't pack their bags , Zimbabweans are fighting their struggle on social media in foreign lands and hope for change, can't even go for few days to go vote, this blackmail by Zimbabweans around history doesn't hold any waters, if you love your country that much you'll fight for it like South Africans did
Exe me bruu wat did South Africans for kahle kahle
And wat did we achieve
You were given freedom not independence…you won the wrong war hence the economy is still in the hands of the oppressor and you have nothing to show for it
100 percent true , what they doing is really pathetic
Ducking bullets indeed but according to Rutendo Zimbabwe liberated SA 😂😂😂
South Africans don't owe Zimbabweans a cent. Zimbabweans must work together and build Zimbabwe for themselves.
I like Ike Khumalo, he represented us ordinary South Africans very well. I didn’t know him before this debate and now I want to know more about him…
He is a member of operation dudula
@@siyanomagqwathekane3581nope he left operation Dudula he said it has been infiltrated by ppl looking for money
@@kimjongun1777 poor judgement?
Ike is been there through and through, he is consistence since started.
That's how I felt after watching, an interview between Penuel and Gayton, I love this Penuel, he is doing better job than Sabc🙄👌
Ike speaks about practical issues that we from the ghettos of SA relate very well with , while Rutendo is speaking more from an academic and research led narrative , but we need more of these conversations , and the facilitator has done his homework.
Well put
true rutendo talking history and war we have a problem now and that's what Ike talking
Very very true
Rutendo or whatever that immigrant is called , speaks from a ZANU PF perspective. He insults our people each time he opens that mouth.
@@thetower5184history is the study of the past, present and future events... Food for thought
As a 🇨🇲, I will always be grateful for South Africa. The most friendly country in the world in my opinion
I wish to visit Duala some day
How many countries have you traveled to ??😢
@seanmikaeel90s50 Things are bad. But we take it for granted things are really bad out there.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 bruh like really
Too friendly for own good hey.😢I would even say it's detrimental to an extent.
We need strong black men like IKE to come out and challenge this situation, it’s already out of hand. I have so much respect him.
Rutendo is starting to sound like that friend who plugged you with a job and start feeling entitled to your salary forever , we can't be held hostage by history and entitlement
Ahhhhhh🤣😂
😂
Lol😂😂😂
😂😂😂
I cant even buy a house in my own country let alone get an RDP so a Zimbabwean is entitled to my rights as a citizen of South Africa. Basically Retendo is saying we owe Zimbabweans every thing we have. A South African has no right to own rights. Zimbabwean saved us so we owe them our Constitutional rights.
Thabk you Ike for being a voice to the voiceless. We are behind you 100%. Drug dealers have killed our boys.
on behalf of South Africans we're rooting for Ike Khumalo
Ike needs to go tp law school in zimbabwe where we learnt history that apartheid has hid to millions of SAs. Sad
Ike is dull. He sounds unread
Sit down gentlemen the episode wasn't about history lessons. It was about the issue of foreigners in our country. Your Rutendo guy was tweaking history for benefit anyway
@@tereraijaravaza8091problem u here talking about law while ur educate law in ur country can't even protect your ass
@@tereraijaravaza8091 we are not talking history we are talking current situation here...
As a Zimbabwean who lives in Zimbabwe I think Ike is on point Zimbabweans should just come back home and deal with our economy and leave South Africans to deal with their challenges. Ordinary South Africans don't owe anyone anything
Deal with the economy how😂
Yea u must take ur zim people and rule ur own country before other immigration take ur zim country.
I agree. They voted to chase farmers out and destroy an economy, just like we are doing. If you vote for this you must suffer. Don't chase farmers out and then come to their country looking for food. Rather watch your brother's doing exactly the same in our criminally run junk status.
It's not that easy, I think what South African should've done is make a case to lift all those sanctions cause you guys might not have the resources, that would go a long way in balancing both states.
Uyahlanya wena thina since I was at school the only place I know when I finish school is Joz manje uzama ukuthini wena hlala wena eZimbabwe
I've just realized how little to nothing I know about Southern African or African history, thank you Penuel for hosting these great minds
Well done to you for being open minded enough to allow yourself to be taught at your adulthood stage... Check the comments people are more angry and emotional than allowing themselves to learn
When Zimbabwe Mozambique opens its mouth it's all lies to push a narrative. Everything coming out of Zimbabwe is anti white yet tell white South Africa and the world where is white Rhodesia today? Now we must fund these people, keep dreaming. If South Africa doesn't get ab immediate handel on a "never ending liberation struggle" against South Africa it's going to be far worse than apartheid! The international community ALREADY pushing a successful regime change, if the come into our borders where does black South Africa go then?
"Its every one's fault but Zimbabweans "said Ike
According to him it's South Africans fault hebanna this guy instead of fighting for your own country he sat more than an hour hour saying South Africa this South Africa that
Rutendo debate is aimed at blaming RSA for Zim problems, we do not owe Zimbabwe a cent, this debate is out of context, are we now in a history class or the issue of foreigners in RSA? to be precise not only Zim but all foreigners at large.
Zim doesn't owe Zimbabwe billions of dollars as Rutendo claims . Neither did Zim liberated SA . Rutendo go back to Zimbabwe nd fix it
South Africa owes Zimbabwe big time.
Thank you Adv Khumalo, for being honest about South Africa and being a true patriot.
I want part 2 and please Rutendo give Khumalo a chance to speak.
Rutendo knows the history of both countries. However, he clearly avoided discussing the contemporary issue of migration.
He is trained to deflect abd was allowed to waste our time with history that is irrelevant to the current problems of illegal migration.
He spreads disinformation cause he knows the audience won't d their own research
He will not talk of migration koz it's his uncles the Shona who are in power looting and mismanaging the economy him he is a beneficiary of the system he will never say anything bad about them unomsangano enhlokweni yakhe
And he failed dismally, he made sure to run away from those questions
He's known for twisting history to suit his own narrative on Twitter
He's a liar!
Zimbabweans tend to look down on South Africans, they have this condescending attitude towards us and continue to call us lazy yet they are enjoying the fruits of our labour
The country doesnt belong to you because you have an ID. We all belong to SA with our mixed heritage. Africa is one and let that sink in your head. You rather love and embrace whites and indians and hate those who look like you and related to you😂😂
which labor baba
😂😂
@@cadencendhlovu2492 🤣😂😂
@@cadencendhlovu2492 the one we used to build this country
We have now been overcrowded, overtaken, overwhelmed, overpowered, dominated by a migration crisis
That is because you had corrupt people at the border who were accepting money to let them through.
So what
@@KofiDavid-r4y So we have 10x the competition. wheres your common sense
@ljlinen what's your point wena!
@@KofiDavid-r4ygo back to your home
This Benson guy like to quote irrelevant history! Bra Ike represented very well. Thank you bra Ike
Uyazi i was surprised to see Ike in the driving mood cruising so well he really didn't disappoint like Rutendo who had no points at all.Rutendo went overdrive trying to obscure the burning issue of immigration.there is this lie that Zanu and Mugabe contributed in assisting ANC to fight the Apartheid government it really irritates me because Zanu even arrested some MK comrades for having links with Zapu
Ike won this debate. Rutendo is smart, but does not have a sufficient argument as to why Zimbabweans and other illegal foreigners should be in South Africa. We have to be for South Africans first. No other country in the world allows illegal foreigners to do what they want in their country except for South Africa.
Rutendo just has the ability to speak beyond that it’s all lies and nonsense, regurgitating some propaganda lines is nonsense
I am from Botswana, we too are tired of Zimbabweans. Truly. We are tired of their crimes. Harassing our women. We are tired. Ike is right that there are certain crimes that you know right away are perpetuated by Zims. I support the put South Africans first movement. You can't be oppressed by other Africans in your own country.
He is not smart he only has information
What's confusing me is that Zimbabweans have so many answers for South Africa (how South african economy should be structured) yet they can't solve Zimbabwean' economic situation... HAI ngeke bafwethu ake nizame okunye. Why study South African problems in such a way that you can even come up with solutions but can't come up with solutions for your own economy...
Too much comfortability, and forget where they coming from.
Angola Played such a huge role in the liberation struggle of Namibia..and thats why until today an Angolan is not seen as a foreigner in Namibia..personally as a child of someone who was raised in refugee camps..My father taught me to show gratitude and love to the people of Angola,Tanzania ,Zambia and Cuba..they went out of their way for Namibia 🇳🇦🇳🇦….and we shall pass on that gratitude to many of our generations to come.
West Africans flooding our borders? Africa is about to find itself in a huge war. Everywhere globalism as back fired, and you keep pushing anti white nonsense for what Latin Europe not white People do . The time is a ALREADY here as blacks are rising up against each other because of west Africa
I wish we as south Africa could learn that
Passing gratitude and demanding resources are two very different things.
Ike Khumalo, is so smart.big up my brother. We love how well you presented our concerns, as South Africans.
We have been carrying Zimbabweans for 30years now, sacrificing our children future.We get arrogance, infrastructure destruction,betrayal, entertainment..Yet no Zimbabweans are pushing nor fighting their struggle, but happy and wanting our citizenship taking our Governoment to court😢
30 years 😮 cum now
Zanu people will never be thankful for what you did by accommodating us because they are the enemies pf Zimbabwean people
They have no pride shame... they want to be something they are not so badly... they must go home... we are busy dealing with ANC bona they love ANC... they taking us back... go home and vote. Finish n klaar.
Why do you get bothered by other Africans in your country? , there are plenty of South Africans here in Zambia we are not bothered because we do not view it as okay to hate or wish for any fellow African to feel unwelcomed, I feel other countries need to start being hostile towards you south africans in their countries, make sure you do not need any other African countries for anything! Yall should be worried about the whites who have always been in your countries stealing from you since time in memorial yet you are here complaining about other countries working in your countries its disgusting that most of you feel so independent & better than other African countries we should have left yall alone during apartheid. Yall are lazy and ungrateful chasing foreigners whole give all South Africans jobs and degrees its just ridiculous and appalling.
We ? What do you do that’s more than the foreigners who is working ? Mxm go sit in your cold shack alone
Ike Khumalo powerfull❤❤❤❤
I feel grateful as a Kenyan to have had the opportunity to hear the diverse perspectives of Icke Khumalo and Rutendo Matinyarare. Their insightful ideas highlight the significance of history in understanding our present challenges. While acknowledging our past, it's essential not to dwell on it excessively, recognizing that today's issues differ somewhat from those of the past.
As Africans in the 21st century, we must approach our challenges comprehensively as a continent. With the advancements in technology and access to information, we have the tools to enhance our economies and formulate effective policies. It's crucial to utilize these resources wisely, ensuring they're not squandered through corruption and mismanagement.
Furthermore, we should move away from the culture of blaming others for our setbacks. While recognizing past mistakes is important, dwelling on them serves no purpose. Instead, we should focus on reclaiming our self-reliance and working towards prosperity. I envision a unified Africa where countries collaborate, share ideas, capital, and resources for mutual benefit.
Great debate it was🔥🔥 Ike Khumalo for Public Protector...
Great history debate. We understand history is needed for context. But please address current issue's facing Zimbabwe & South Africa with illegal immigration.
NO AFRICAN IS ILLEGAL IN AFRICA
No matter what rutendo says we know who helped us Zambia Angola and Tanzanian and the footprint are still there.
Yes, yes, yes. Zambia and Tanzania and Angola helped South Africa immensely. And they are not coming back to South Africa demanding to be citizens.
Don't forget Eswatini where Tutus, Mandelas, and Motsepes kids went for education.
ANC headquarters was based in Zambia & our country was independent from 1964 yet Rutendo underplays its role & overestimates Zim' s role that was only independent since 1980. Tanzania & Angola was also a frontline state with Zambia but we dont have this level of entitlement on SA! Let SA live please geez!
@@zakhemabaso6644 eswatini & Lesotho are indirectly province's of S.A. your population works here so if I were you I'll keep quiet cause the spotlight will be on you and you will wish you never say what you said we owe you big( O)
@@bekisiphotshili2566you crazy n have clearly never traveled outside SA coz these countries fear SA
All that this conversation showed me is that people feel we owe them our lives! We are nothing without them. So they can do as they please. That's why we are not speaking about the current situation but stating the lies that happened over 40 years ago.
Africa and it's communism... it's why the regime Pre 94 waged a war on communism. You can't work with a communist and the DA is a prime example of it
Ike Khumalo understands the assignment ❤️🙏🏻
Held no punches 😂
What’s the assignment?Instil hate and divide each other?That Ike guy is evil and represents bad society .
@@kumbiektw😂l😂l😂😂l
@@kumbiektwThe evil one is that ZANU PF pervert that Ike is debating with. How wish he could leave our country .
@@kumbiektw we love him
Theory vs Practical. Past vs Present. Words vs actions.
Fiction Vs Reality
I hate this guy from Zimbabwe is talking nosess
Zims deserve to be in zim and fix their country
Part-time refugees who go home Easter and Christmas😂😂 chased whites out of Zim and come to work for them in SA😂😂
Exactly!
Exactly, they overstayed their welcome.
yet you have south africans in europe , china , amerika and even other african coutnries...there are many boers in sadc....so we will continue to come to SA whether you like it or not
@@fin2-em2mfwhat's your point?
Ike Khumalo we agree 100%
Rutendo is not addressing the real issues. He is talking history.
You have to know your history to move forward
@@April1999-CAN hopeful next time he will focus on the issues at hand.
He is always like this. Let him fix Zimbabwe
I thought he wil give us a solution 😮
Strategy
I support Adv Ike! The solution is clear, well received and supported!
as a foreigner myself, i owe alot to this country
You can pay us back by going back to your country, we are overcrowded we want to breath
BOT
Same as me South africa is the best country in AFRICA
Thank you so much,we appreciate
Go home and fix your home country... if you are really greatful.
My uncle is a MK veterans he said in Zimbabwe his friends were killed by Zimbabwean. He said they hated south africans in exil they treated us less than humans. This guy Rutendo is a liar
The ignancy in here is Horrible
The white Opp ressors are loving these comments by Black people
Rutendo is partially responsible for getting sanctions lifted in Zim, and some of you dare to call him a liar… smh shame shame shame
@ronaldjere5651 yeah in Zambia he said he had best time of his life
Rutendo spoke 75% of the time telling us history... he always go off topic and discuss history.
It is a strategy, they train you to dominate the discussion and talk too long so that the opponent and the interviewer does not get the chance to question you. You control the narrative.
He has no solutions for Zim but for SA
Rutendo said nothing when he was asked about the solution....😅
@@jabulilemlaka6253Because the solution starts with free and fair elections in Zim, something ZANU PF will never accept. And he makes it a point to not touch even the low hanging fruit.
@revolution475 yoo hayi. We live in a sick world. He is not a revolutionary.
Ike was interrupted so much even stopped from talking by Penuel, only to allow Rutendo to continue for a VERY long time.
Wangicika o uPenuel 😂😂😂for years njalo
This Khumalo guy spits Facts
What facts are you talking about?
South Africa MUST fix their immigration policy.
Our immigration policy is ok but ur climbing crocodile in Limpopo river so immigration policy won’t apply to illegal foreigners as crocodiles can’t stamp passports 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😢@@KedimphoNgrandma
This is epic. Let's have an audience next time that will have a chance to ask questions. And journalists. Also try to establish order coz there is more of a quarrel than dialogue.
I agree with my South African brother our Zimbabweans brothers must start concentrating to free their country and go back to fight their evil government than rather live on easy street
That’s all we are preaching and want from Zim, if that day happens I will personally help Zim achieve that. But folding arms with no cause of action, isn’t going to liberate Zim.
"The Only borders that irritate people seems to be South Africa's borders"... Author Unknown... But without even listening to the conversation, African, Pakistani, Chinese, European Countries, where their so called 'leaders' and making their countries seemingly not a conducive place to stay in or a happy place to be, must start making their countries attractive for their citizens to return... Cause it is not being Xenophobic, but facts are facts, cause we are competing for basic and other economic opportunities, especially in the small business sector. The entire JHB CBD small business sector has been overly flooded by non South Africans - and those small businesses for the most part does not employ any South Africans... And the level of criminal activities conducted by many many many of these folk is insurmountable... Why does everyone not all flock to Zimbabwe for example, or to Botswana, so that South Africa can get a bit of a breather to find its own footing.
The reason why the South African boarder seems to irritate people is tantamount to why the American boarders irritate people...
South Africa is one of the few countries that have resources and the level of education many seek for, also South Africa has adopted western culture, is a well spoken country in English amongst many, provides benefits to foreigners and unlike America (of which I currently reside for the past 4 years) is much more easier to enter more than many African countries!
Our government does not take priority to South African people, but cares more about the housing of people seeking refugee and using them as commodities to suit their own personal agendas.
We cannot deny the fact that there's many illegal foreigners (I'd argue more than documented foreigners) in our country and they benefit alot more than our own people.
This is a fight bigger than us, we need true intervention.
@@TheBoringGuySAthis is really sad for us ordinary citizens of SA. What do u of Gayton Mackenzie who’s vocal about these issues and he put all SAns first?
Problem we have is a 1 way traffic to our strenuous economy also with the crimes these people create and I am 1 of those South Africans who say hell to borderless Africa.
Great point
Ike, thank you for representing us the ordinary South African so well. Haaayi wena Rutendo you are high on something i believe because this 'sense of entitlement' is sickening 💔 it's giving a not woke person vibe😢... You can't still be holding on to history like the ANC is... heal my brother from the ancient wounds, and go back to your own countries (all foreigners) and deal with your own struggles for the sake of your children and leave us alone to deal with ours as you can clearly see that we are engulfed by our own troubles... South Africa can not house the whole of Africa, it does not have unlimited resources as you can clearly see because you 🙄 live here, even if we maybe owed you for what your countries did for us a loooong time ago when they did, we surely must have paid our debt now. Ike said something very important that even if our people ran to other countries for refuge it was but only a few of them NOT the entire SA bathong. Don't be helping our government with it's porous laws to oppress the people of this country. ALL FOREIGNERS MUST JUST GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES EXCEPT FOR THOSE COMING HERE WITH SCARCE SKILLS.
👌🏽Wow, bra Ike was so collected, normally he lets his passion get the better of him....👌🏽👌🏽I liked his interview.
Well represented by Mr Khumalo 🇿🇦
Bhut Ike is a legend,no fear.
Yeah, i did not expect him to have the patience to entertain the well spoken time wasting Rutendo. Unfortunately the history doesn't help the current situation
I love RSA , it's all I know.🇿🇦🤣💪
💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
To the Minister and Ministry....Can Home affairs create platforms where we can report Foreigners with identity documents.....Please Please...so that they can produce documentation
Great show Panuel, first time listening.
The entitlement of Zimbabweans was on full display.
Rutendo was lousy in the debate, kept interrupting.
Askies ....Its Rutendos' entitlement ....... he is a bad representative of the common Zimbabwean
@@tawandamapfirakupa2876 forgive me for generalizing
@penual - Please ask the two gentlemen this questions:
Health and Social Services: How can South Africa's health and social service systems accommodate both the needs of its own citizens and the foreign population, particularly in terms of access, affordability, and quality?
I believe part of the solution is for people like Ike to use his influence to force the government to de-register and remove a lot of the foreign funded NGOs who push a human rights agenda that destabilises society.
By making tax paying citizens pay for it. Thus the push for this NHI
A very good Question @batistamanuel
Sharing is caring😊😊😊
Rutendo lies so much it is so sad that Ike and Penuel are not informed enough to challenge him
Rutendo creates stories, if Ike focused on clarifying his mentally created history, the interview was not going to discuss any relevant current issues. Ike swayed the interview to mention the current challenges.
Ww all know history and we are talking about current issues.
u fool
I agree with you Rutendo lies,i think he needs people like Taffy.
Thanks Ike ,we r very proud of you as South Africans
Rutendo is campaigning for Mnangakwa ZanuPF right now and saying he is a best leader for Zimbabwe, it is mind boggling that he lives in South Africa, alot of Zimbabweans are complaining about ZanuPF but still vote for them
I worked as a casual in Fast food industry in Cape Town with many other young South Africans years today you won't find much South Africans, doing these jobs last night my way home I found a young gentlemen about 20 years old scrounging in garbage for food, I drove past turned around gave him some canned food I had in my car he was so grateful for the little I shared extremely well spoken, I have nothing against Foreigners but we have to ask who is gonna look out for our people? Over heard a Pakistani looking from someone to work 8 to 5 Monday to Sunday for R400 Rands a week? If we don't take those jobs we lazy?
That is crazy. Working for R400 for 7 day, 9 hours a day? That amount is less than 25% of minimum wage (R1 830.25)
@@veemotaung1060 sad thing is he found someone desperate enough to work for that
I am correct in saying Matinyarare's intro is referring to immigration during an " ARMS STRUGGLE" in SA. Only a handful of SAns went into exile to various African countries due to the apartheid regime. This is not the type of immigration exodus that SA is seeing today. Most Africans are entering SA today with the INTENTION to grab opportunities from SAns NOT to replan/calculate ways on how to go back to their countries and fight for change. The immigration situation in SA today cannot be compared to what Rutendo is talking about..
Well said bra.....
True
lama kwerekwere just love lying to themselves.
@wabakwena246 my sentiments exactly, Rutendo is completely dishonest, we must compare apples with apples.
Amen
This is a very informative conversation. I don't think there's a country in the African continent that would accept foreign nationals to take over major cities, perpetuate human trafficking, drug dealing, dominate the general labour force and commit heinous crimes.
Ike Khumalo SA brains I'm proud of, brother u are intelligent.
That Khumalo guy is a Zim boy kkkkkkkkkk
After listening to Rutendo's submission, Zimboz are not interested in fixing Zim period
Exactly
You nail it at the head 🤞
I totally agree he's blaming everyone else he feels he's owed something
@@Cleo256he thinks and speak like an entitled child. When they did not contribute much in our struggle.
@@luzukombuqu4976 absolutely
Ike is an advocate, his argument capabilities are clear and well structured.
Benson is a good historian, talking about the past... The current situation seemed out of his reach.
Advocate IKE is a clearly a better historian . More factual
Both are intelligent in their own way , you don’t need to fight over anything.. it not a competition.
South Africa offered Zimbabwe a special permit for 10 years to fix their country, they still fail because their focus is to be South African citizens.
"THEY MUST GO HOME" 🙏🏾
We already home😂🇿🇦🇿🇦
You think South Africa belongs to you but you don't own any property or have title deeds: Malema
Summing up what Rutendo is saying Zimbos are never going to fight their leaders they came to repay themselves for helping SA indefinitely🤔 interesting.
They never really helped 😅. Mugabe refused to helped SA many times they say. This guy is not entirely telling the truth. He's taking glory in what other African countries did. Open your eyes please SA. You owe nothing to these people.
Please dont judge Zimbabweans based on this guys views, he represents The Zimbabweans government, not the the ordinary Zimbabweans in South Africa, we are grateful that you allowed us to stay, and we dont feel entitled at all ,we are at the mercy of your generosity, Thank you South Africa
From my conversation with immigrants working in SA, they say that they want EFF to win so that the borders can be open. So I would think that, that is what they are waiting for.
In a very basic sense it would be impossible for me to adopt children into my family when I am struggling to provide for my own children.
Absolutely! That's pretty much what it is in a nutshell and that's what SAns are saying over and over but they continue to be invalidated and called names.
Exactly my sentiment
Finish and Klaar
This is only true when you expect your government to provide everything for you. South Africans really are children of the failing ANC.
Look at all the biggest empires of the world; You cant become one without foreigners.
So comrade, I would adopt anyone as long as they contribute to the empowerment of my family. e.g British Common Wealth, China, UNITED STATES of A and EU.
Simple straight forward
The only solution and remedy to this problem of foreigners this is the take responsibility of their own countries regardless of which country they come from
Bra Ike is a patriot!!
As an Angolan ur brothers I love to see this kind of respectful conversation I would like to see more of this, and in some points I understand the Southafrican side coz in Angola happens similar things our brothers from Congo some of them migrate there to do crime is hurts twice coz they r our brothers.
How are economic opportunities in Angola.?
@@mandlenkosihlazo977 It abit difficult coz of the politics u need to be really persistent but is full of opportunity, nowadays Is full of people from Senegal, Eritrea, Mali they r on the grocery store business and people from Congo man They r Angolan too they are day since day 1 ahahahahaha
@@rubenstephan5389 Thanks bro..I need to read up on Angola.I know so little about it. Or better still visit..
Ghana and Nigeria experienced the same where they actually mass deported each other, each country has limited resources for its citizens, bringing a whole continent into that one country creates a big problem, Where I live it’s a war zone at night , typing this now an illegal mining explosion just went off
Rutendo is a history teacher however he says nothing about current issues. Well done to Ike.
Yazi, he has made me realize that his history lesson is his perspective...😮😢
Isaac he knows very well about the current issues but he chooses to act as though they dont exist because acknowledging the issues honestly and truthfully would be an admission of guilt
YA'LL TRULY DON'T GET IT.
@godpenuel Part 2 or follow up please 🙏🏿. I found that so informative and loved the passion from the gentlemen. Thank you for the platform.
Nah, Rutendo is exaggerating Zim involvement in Our struggle. He is rewriting history this one.
😅 now South Africa is a reason Zimbabwe failed, narcissistic people don't want to take responsibility. 😂. Zimbabwe work on your country
@@viriacssa2003Yeses. He played the victim card so hard. "Everyone is the problem but us."
@@viriacssa2003Yeses. He played the victim card so hard. "Everyone is the problem but us."
Are you another Ike?? I mean come on the guy is terrible at historical knowledge.
It's a shame that you say such a statement, you agree that there was involvement, at the time it was needed and it was given, soo you say thank you.
I understand Ike very well 🤔🤞🏾🙏🏾as South African we never had any problems with our foreign brothers up until they see us as lazy people to be fed with drugs, crime and human trafficking etc.
Anyway Thanks Penuel and your guest Ike and Rutendo this was greatest debate we need more please 🙏🏾🤞🏾🙌🏾
Ike is massive, he represented us well. Penuel please defend Ike on his time too. Rutendo gets more time, and he chows Ike's time too with interfering on every sentence Ike makes. However, this conversation made me appreciate South Africa more, and also learn history and see how more we can be united as Africans.
This is such a classic Interview, Legendary actually
That history is irrelevant to the topic: South Africans didn't migrate to African countries but it was cadres who were deployed for military training...not mass migration
Not economic participation or ownership of land, but combat training!...thank you!
Thank you
for you to have this half freedom of yours a lot of african countries which you now treat like scum sacrifised themselves for the cause of a free Africa but it seems like that was all in vain as south africans are cowards . you would rather lick the feet of your colonizer rthan help and stand with the guys who helped you when you were oppressed. Nothing lasts forever my man and we as the next generation in zimbabwe wont forget , you seem to forget you are still colonized rock bottom is coming and no one in africa is going to help you , you have shown your true colours
Sample as that...
if south africa was under sanctions you would migrate into other countries....by the way there are MANY south africans living abroad, in canada, amerika, europe, and we have many of YOUR RACIST BOERS, in our countries.....so i dont know what you are talking about...
Thank you Ike once again for being a real patriot and a real South African. It was 2 against one but you prevailed.
Glad u can SEE
I thought I'm the only one who saw that, he was given less time to articulate his points.
Very true
From the first day I saw that mans posts on Twitter I was this is the man who has facts. Especially like back then because I can relate with a lot Ike said.
This is the most civil debate I have ever seen. No unnecessary emotions (anger etc.) raised from the participants. They could all laugh together and air their different opinions.
True
That is how it should be!
.... but it is not a laughing matter. Rutendo was very condescending and he wanted to take all the spotlight😡
@@honordiamond2548Oh give over. He was just more articulate. Put his argument forward better and tried to be factual where possible. Ike tried to get personal.
@@wtt747 your choice.... my choice. It ends here.
We Need Another Sit Down Like This🙏
What an informative session. The debate was interesting and educational in various ways. Looking forward to more engaging discussions like this one. Thanks to you to host both Ike and Rutendo. There's still hope in Africa!
Corruption is the Zim worst enemy not Sanctions.
keep lying to yourself....just last year it was on the news that europe extended sanctions on zim....its there google it..
INTERVIEWER is fear guy for both of them and I like that thank you too beside nice conversation for African learn from our brothers here thank you again
The main issue with SOME foreigners in South Africa is that not only are they jealous of South Africa they dont believe it is allowed to be a sovereign nation because they think we owe them something yet they are unable to hold their governments accountable to provide a comfortable life they see us living here - The "ubuntu" we had in SA for the whole world is what now put us in this position to be called xenophobic in our own country- Also Notice how Rutendo can only speak about history - these guys are stuck in the past , because they have absolutely nothing to show for what they built in their countries today ! Arg no man !
I don’t think you understand the meaning of ‘context’ in a debate. And you certainly failed to grasp the Pan African message from Rutendo. Remove the hate in your heart, the real enemy wants this division in Africa.
@@nqobizithajacobsingini7580Not hate. But we can't build for ourselves while others want to live in our house rent free.
@@FictionHubZA look, I 100% support the fact that illegal foreigners need to be arrested and deported. As someone who came here by the book I can tell you now it’s not an easy process but it’s a process that must be followed. I also hate criminality and don’t condone criminal behaviour of any kind. That being said, sometimes it does feel like SA’ns just don’t like other Africans even ones that are here through proper means and contribute to society.
Most of them carry this notion that South Africa owes rhem something. I dont know where this thing comes from because it was ordinary South Africans in townships that fought the apartheid regime pitting their bodies on the line. They carry this notion that they helped us and we are indebted to them.
@@nqobizithajacobsingini7580 Where are you from? You have to see the source of the problem. If Africans bring crime and other unwanted things then all of them will be seen as such. The impact of uncontrolled illegal immigration affects them all as a group. But if we only allow those who are successful and clean then all these stereotypes would disappear.
Don't blame the reaction. Blame the source of the conflict.
That was an enriching discussion. Well done to both.
Rutendo is a good history teacher, salute! Khumalo can debate very well. Pen truly listens more now! Great discussion gentlemen!
Ike was punching above his weight...there's a lot he could've challenged Rutendo on Rutendo is misleading with his history
I can not say for sure that he's misleading with his history but I get where you are coming from Ike could've done better with countering some historical "facts"
He rewrote history
He's hiding a lot of Zanu Pf atrocities
A comprehensive history lesson of southern African countries.👏👏👏
This is why I think you'll go down as the greatest in this SA Podcasting thing!
Podcasting is still new, wait 5 years and see who will be King or Queen
Growing up in Durban Point, I had the opportunity to experience a vibrant community filled with diversity. Unfortunately, like many foreigner kids, I witnessed the negative impact of crime and drug-related issues. It's crucial for all of us, regardless of our background, to join forces in the fight against crime. We must report those individuals who are ungrateful for the opportunities provided by this country and are contributing to criminal activities. Together, we can create a safer environment and build a better future for everyone. Let's stand united against crime and work towards a brighter tomorrow.
But first go back to your homeland and stop loitering in SA.......
❤❤❤❤❤❤🙌🏿
You said it mouthful
POINT, SOUTH BEACH IS GONE TO FOREIGNERS 💔💔
Well said
These points being debated are so irrelevant.We dont want a history lesson.We want know why Zimbabweans are in SA in numbers but they are so clever, but cant even change the situation in their country of birth.
Did you listen?
I don't think they listen
It's definitely because of incompetent government in Zim,without no doubt Zimbabweans are more clever than South Africans
Ask that again they are so clever at diagnosing what is going wrong in SA and yet they dont want to build their contries.
This was interesting. Two intelligent men, well informed in history and present issues. The only problem I have was that the present issues addressed by Adv Ike were pushed aside by Rutendo in a manner that suggested they are justified because Zim helped South Africa. If people are hijacking jobs from South Africans by taking pay cuts, Rutendo never said anything on that. He is only talking history, history and history! It's not a solution.
I think they should be given topics so they focus on them and not get off topic to express irrelevant knowledge.
I like how Ike is outlining socioeconomic factors that are currently sabotaging our economy. On the other side Rudento is focusing on history that doesn't bult to this debate. Big to Ike
He is living in past. It's gone...... that's why its called History. In South Africa... we live for now.....preparing for our children's future. Makasiyeke thina ngeHis story yakhe.
Agreed
South africans have been nothing but good to Zimbabweans, we have treated Zimbabweans way better than mnagangwa
Especially the Ndebele people who have never known independence in Zimbabwe,the Rutendo just lies and speaks positive of ZANU,who have never done a single good thing
Fact 💯
@@brianncube4650 fuseki wena nge victim mentality yakho yamasimba youre Zimbabwean when they chase tou out they chase you also Ndebele yomsuzo
@wandamaze2867 we have always welcomed all people living here 1st…we are saying our capacity is limited now.
If Sa is Xenophobic you would’ve never even entered the country.
Zim ndebeles are regarded as foreigners cause we still have boarders unfortunately and when it comes December time you all go back to Zim to see your families.
@wandamaze2867but Ndebele people want to come back to Sa it is not a problem…the problem is the resources we have and the bad economy now that we have.
Stop letting the news poison into thinking that SA people hate Zim people.
The stance that we owe people as South Africans is disturbing though😮
no wonder they are behaving this way, entitlement! South African don't owe them shit
That's ZANU PF propaganda 😅
It's ridiculous at this point!
Ike...i like it when you mentioned that Zimbabweans they label them selves as refugees but come December and April Easter holidays they go back home.....what type of refugee have free movement as they wish ?? Kumnandi emzantsi....
True 😂😂😂😂😂