Trinity Doctrine is mental gymnastics ... and dependent on changing the plain meaning of words. Scripture is so simple with a Father- Son relationship rather than the mysterious, illogical, and metaphysical philosophy.
@@couriersix7326 Not one single verse states that God is three anythings. Many verses state that there is one God, and that God is one. So either Trinitarians have three 'Gods' ... or they have Jesus sitting beside himself. Stephen saw neither.
@@kerryweinholz1731 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" Kind of sounds like Jesus is referring to a Trinity.
@@couriersix7326 No. A list of three nouns isn't a Trinity - doesn't prove anything ... there's a lot of presumptions and assumptions going on to make that statement. Here are some 3-noun lists: Jack, Tom, Bill; or Mary, Martha, Lazarus; or cat, dog, cow; or sheep, Austin, calves. Now what do each of those lists tell you? Very little! Even if I precede each with 'Feed', it still doesn't give any information about their relationships, natures, habits characteristics - actually it tells you very little without context. Oh, don't ASSUME the names are of humans!
Hi, a Polish lutheran here. The Council of Pińczów simply refers to one of synods of Pińczów, that were organised in this town by calvinists in the sixteenth century (there were synods organised in other towns as well). These synods were meetings of calvinist nobility and theologians from different parts of Poland. Many of the attendees from Lesser Poland supported arianism, which eventually led to the split within the church. Too bad I don't know any resources in English to recommend.
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". . : ) . .
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 . .
May I ask, why is it so necessary to have the doctrine of the Trinity in the church? Many Trinitarians believe that they can “lose their salvation” by NOT believing in this doctrine. If belief in this doctrine was so important to God, wouldn’t one reasonably believe that He would have written it clearly in his Law? He says, do NOT add or subtract from His Law, Deut. 4:2 & 12:32. If belief in this doctrine was so necessary, wouldn’t Jesus have mentioned it? Wouldn’t it be logical to call those who deviated from the original faith of the Israelites “Heretics” vs. calling those who deny a doctrine that came much later through the counsels of Christianity? It is these later doctrines created by the Catholic Church that cause Jews to reject Jesus as their own. Jesus clearly didn’t believe that he was co-equal to God. He taught his followers that he was NOT all-powerful, that he was NOT all-knowing, that he was NOT omnipresent, and that he was NOT perfect. Jesus taught that THE name to be hallowed was his Father’s, YHWH, rather than his own. Jesus taught that he was sent by God, meaning that Jesus isn’t the sender. Jesus taught that authority had been given to him, meaning that there was an authority Giver. Jesus taught that his word was not his own, meaning that his word was from someone else besides him. Even Paul said that the Father and son are not co-equal, that the Father is above the son. The New Testament clearly says that Jesus had a god and that Jesus had a Father. When Jesus was called good-teacher, he said that God was the only One who was good. Jesus prayed to God, not to himself. Salvation is of the Jews, and when we deviate from their faith, we break God’s commandments. It is right to say that changing the definition in what God deemed to be “sin” is a sin itself. We can’t redefine sin. Jesus is king, but he’s not THE King. Do I believe he will be king in the world to come, yes, but he’ll be an earthly king who teaches us to love his Father who is THE King. Jesus was lord as king David was lord. Jesus was sent by the King as his agent. When a king sends a messenger in His name, we should receive the messenger as if he is the king himself. But how do we know if the messenger is truly from God? We use God’s law and we test the messenger. We test the messenger, because God is testing us. Does the messenger teach us to worship a new god who our ancestors didn’t know? If we say that Jesus wanted us to worship himself, then by God’s definition, Jesus would be a FALSE prophet. We follow the faith OF Jesus, not the faith ABOUT him. God gave us Israel to be our light and the guardians of His Law. When we add all of theses doctrines which cause division and people to be burned at the stake, especially HIS CHOSEN, it doesn’t please God. Jesus pre existed as all of us do; God created us all, and we all existed in God’s plan before He created us. Jesus refers to himself mostly as the son of man, which can best be translated as “human” in Hebrew. Jesus taught that obedience makes one a child of God. God calls Israel His firsborn son, and instructs Moses to tell this to Pharoah.
Dr. Cooper, would you consider doing a podcast that offered an overall critique of the Hellenization thesis? I know it doesn’t have tremendous credibility among mainstream theologians today, but I still find it cropping up in unexpected places and wish I had a more fully articulated response. Being able to answer the “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem” critique also seems fundamental to the pro-scholastic mission of J & S.
I really enjoy this series. You are very correct in saying heresy helps form good theology, because these videos make me notice I take for granted a lot of the core, mainstream beliefs today without questioning their origin or codification like The Word of God meaning God's spoken words, Jesus, and the bible.
Regardless of what the 'times' were like, they had the Spirit same as we do today...the Spirit does not lead people to murder. Proverbs 17:15 "He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD."
29:19 MS writing does not say the “logos” was created at “conception”. It states what is said in the Hebrew / Greek Scriptures. It’s not MS being “philosophical”. It seem YOU are the one doing so…
You spent a lot of time denouncing the character of Servetus yet when it gets to Calvin, you said he doesn't have a choice. How does a Christian not know not to murder others for different beliefs?
Dr also says that Michael Seretus was not humble and thus incorrect able on the premise that Calvin was Right and Servetus was in error!? This Dr is so bias!! The Hebrews worshipped and we're widely known to only worship The One True God and thus one true God tells one and ALL who he is through the prophets such as Isaiah 9v6 etc etc. Adolf Harnack was correct!! And if one reads the prophets in The Holy book, one will clearly see. The trinitarian doctrin entered at the council of Nicea by comprise, and it's provable and proven.. However, people such as this choose to disregard The all sufficient and sovereign word of God. Logos is Greek and Daves (I think I've spelt this wrong) is Hebrew and they have very different meanings/understandings behind them. For a greater understanding please check out the RUclips channel "Monarchian", God is walking on water youtube channel and check out the evidence on Monarchianism being orthodox and not the false trinity doctrine. Greek brought in their philosophy instead of just trusting the simplicity of the word of God. Born Again Barbarian youtube channel is also one to check out❤
🕆 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.🕆 Let the Holy Spirit guide you this day according to these verses from the bible. Let God’s Peace and Grace be with you (To The Reader). Praise God always. Amen,.,. 🕆🙏🙌
Off topic BUT could you break down where your subscribers come from? By country? I know you're busy but...I'm keen to know, outside US. I also wonder if you would be interested in subtitles, I could do German, I think most guys in Germany wouldn't be fluent enough to follow. Also I have friends in Philippines where we desperately need more Lutheran resources. Cheers
31:00 Your discussion of Servetus's beliefs (both Arian and Sabellian) reminds me of Swedenborgianism or early Mormonism. Some people read the Book of Mormon as teaching a type of modalism where Jesus is a separate body that the Father took on at the Incarnation ("And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son"). It differs from Sabellian modalism in that Christ's body exists permanently after the Incarnation, separately from the Father's body, even though both are manifestations of a single person (so Joseph Smith described the Father and Son as two "personages" that could appear at the same time, even though the BOM portrayal of Christ refers to himself as both the Father and the Son). Ronald Huggins has an article online making the case that Joseph got this view from Swedenborg, before Joseph/the LDS's later move to polytheism. I hope you have time to talk about Swedenborgianism and the various eras of Mormonism in this series - I'm more familiar with the latter, but I know much less about Swedenborg.
Servetus was not an Arian, and he denounced Sabellius (though Sabellian beliefs are hard to nail down bc none of his writings survived the torch). That Servetus is not an Arian is clear in the first 5 minutes if you were to read any of his stuff. Guess that’s too hard for some….though they call themselves “academics.” Ha
Joseph Smith’s claim of seeing both the Father and the Son together came years after the Book of Mormon’s display of a modalist christology, and clearly after Smith changed his views on the so-called “Godhead”. The earliest accounts of his “first vision” (1832-1835) only have Jesus appearing to him, which is quite consistent with Book of Mormon modalism.
I love how they always try to paint Servetus as bad as they can and make excuses for Calvin's murder of this godly saint. Seemingly, they can not help themselves.
47:09 Isn’t it great, he gets all his information about these groups he is against, from those who are also against them. Never seems to go to the actual groups information… Seems to be how most of these “commenters” do… they don’t study for themselves, just regurgitate old hatred’s of people “his” group or those he agrees with in some form, persecuted.
It would be fun to draw correlations between Reformation heretics/Anabaptists and later revolutionary (Marxist and proto-Marxist/French) movements. I sense we're largely dealing with the same ideas -- Marx seemed to want to emphasize a connection to the peasant wars. The influence of Yoder on Hippie thought, etc
Bullcrap. Marxist nonsense is rooted in anarchy, atheism, and judaism. Unitarians have historically been pacifists who acknowledged complete separation of Church and State. When the Church and State became one, then the religious doctrine of the State became mandatory. Papist Religion, Judaism------both are hypocrites who love the World and not God.
It’s always bothered me how flippantly reformed trinitarians speak about Michael Servetus, a man far superior in genius than any of them. I notice how you demean Servetus’ character calling him arrogant and abrasive, so as to tear down any of his beliefs. That he learned the truth about the nature of God in just a year is a testament to what Jesus said: that this is a mystery which has not been revealed to the wise and prudent but to babes. So it seems you are the arrogant one who knows better than Christ, that a man must be well learned and educated in order to grasp a truth Jesus said a small child could understand. However, reading “On the Errors of the Trinity” will show you just how educated Servetus was. It’s a brilliant theological work, unmatched in the 16th century. You snicker at him having to flee for his life from city to city. Jesus had no home when he was born nor in his ministry. Would you snicker at him? Servetus had the courage of his convictions and was burned alive over them. You call that stubbornness. And as much as you may not want it to be, he is still very much relevant to today. Truth is always relevant.
Arrogance? Are you kidding?! A man of such education, experience, etc and you think he “made” up his mind in a year. You are adding a lot that is not documented. Why not just read what he published and compare to the Bible????
So I am enjoying this erudite series, however by the standards of this podcast it's pretty clear that I am a heretic, just as well this isn't the 1590s. So IMO the doctrine of the Trinity has a lot going for it, but the problem is limiting God the Father to only having one son! Why would he do that if his mercy is infinite? What about all the other planets that may have intelligent life in this infinite universe? Or supposing that the human race is wiped out and in a few million years another intelligent life form arises on the planet? Or what about all the other inspired teachers of mankind who have appeared to be 'full of God' in no lesser way than Jesus Christ! In some ways the more pragmatic Trinity of Christ, his Gospel and his Church, seems more useful, certainly less devisive...
Calvin was not in an untenable political situation. Calvin, if he was half the exegete that many in the reformed camp claim that he was, he would have known what the scriptural punishment for heresy was.
Servetus was condemned and rejected everywhere he went for his unorthodox theologies on the Trinity. Its easy for someone to type stuff like this from the end of the history of the situation from an armchair with no influence, about his lack of exegesis. I'm not a Calvinist, but this is an extremely unfair observation.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 .
Dr Cooper... I've always characterized the Servetus incident as... "Servetus burning himself" because Calvin warned him sternly but also with a hint of a humane plea (I've heard of multiple correspondences where the tone got more aggressive by Calvin-which is to be expected. To publicly disregard the orders and request of Geneva and Calvin is the same as Saddam Hussein or some other world challenger subjugating America). In this case it was even worse, He specifically chased after his own destruction... And when someone does that, then pity and mercy on Servatus would only serve to bring scoffing upon Calvin and Geneva. And from your description of Servetus' demeanor, it brings to mind something of David Bentley Hart's demure humility. But apparently even Hart doesn't "hold a candle" to Servetus.
Trinity Doctrine is mental gymnastics ... and dependent on changing the plain meaning of words. Scripture is so simple with a Father- Son relationship rather than the mysterious, illogical, and metaphysical philosophy.
You have to reject and twist SO many scriptural verses that reference Jesus and the Holy Spirit's divinity to not come to a Trinitarian view of God.
@@couriersix7326 Not one single verse states that God is three anythings. Many verses state that there is one God, and that God is one. So either Trinitarians have three 'Gods' ... or they have Jesus sitting beside himself. Stephen saw neither.
@@kerryweinholz1731 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" Kind of sounds like Jesus is referring to a Trinity.
@@couriersix7326 No. A list of three nouns isn't a Trinity - doesn't prove anything ... there's a lot of presumptions and assumptions going on to make that statement. Here are some 3-noun lists: Jack, Tom, Bill; or Mary, Martha, Lazarus; or cat, dog, cow; or sheep, Austin, calves. Now what do each of those lists tell you? Very little! Even if I precede each with 'Feed', it still doesn't give any information about their relationships, natures, habits characteristics - actually it tells you very little without context. Oh, don't ASSUME the names are of humans!
@@kerryweinholz1731Except this isn't a mere list of nouns, these are thr names you are to Baptize for. Why would you baptize in anyone's name but God?
Hi, a Polish lutheran here. The Council of Pińczów simply refers to one of synods of Pińczów, that were organised in this town by calvinists in the sixteenth century (there were synods organised in other towns as well). These synods were meetings of calvinist nobility and theologians from different parts of Poland. Many of the attendees from Lesser Poland supported arianism, which eventually led to the split within the church. Too bad I don't know any resources in English to recommend.
Thank you! That's very helpful.
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
: )
. .
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
- Acts 3:19
.
.
May I ask, why is it so necessary to have the doctrine of the Trinity in the church? Many Trinitarians believe that they can “lose their salvation” by NOT believing in this doctrine. If belief in this doctrine was so important to God, wouldn’t one reasonably believe that He would have written it clearly in his Law? He says, do NOT add or subtract from His Law, Deut. 4:2 & 12:32. If belief in this doctrine was so necessary, wouldn’t Jesus have mentioned it? Wouldn’t it be logical to call those who deviated from the original faith of the Israelites “Heretics” vs. calling those who deny a doctrine that came much later through the counsels of Christianity? It is these later doctrines created by the Catholic Church that cause Jews to reject Jesus as their own. Jesus clearly didn’t believe that he was co-equal to God. He taught his followers that he was NOT all-powerful, that he was NOT all-knowing, that he was NOT omnipresent, and that he was NOT perfect. Jesus taught that THE name to be hallowed was his Father’s, YHWH, rather than his own. Jesus taught that he was sent by God, meaning that Jesus isn’t the sender. Jesus taught that authority had been given to him, meaning that there was an authority Giver. Jesus taught that his word was not his own, meaning that his word was from someone else besides him. Even Paul said that the Father and son are not co-equal, that the Father is above the son. The New Testament clearly says that Jesus had a god and that Jesus had a Father. When Jesus was called good-teacher, he said that God was the only One who was good. Jesus prayed to God, not to himself. Salvation is of the Jews, and when we deviate from their faith, we break God’s commandments. It is right to say that changing the definition in what God deemed to be “sin” is a sin itself. We can’t redefine sin. Jesus is king, but he’s not THE King. Do I believe he will be king in the world to come, yes, but he’ll be an earthly king who teaches us to love his Father who is THE King. Jesus was lord as king David was lord. Jesus was sent by the King as his agent. When a king sends a messenger in His name, we should receive the messenger as if he is the king himself. But how do we know if the messenger is truly from God? We use God’s law and we test the messenger. We test the messenger, because God is testing us. Does the messenger teach us to worship a new god who our ancestors didn’t know? If we say that Jesus wanted us to worship himself, then by God’s definition, Jesus would be a FALSE prophet. We follow the faith OF Jesus, not the faith ABOUT him. God gave us Israel to be our light and the guardians of His Law. When we add all of theses doctrines which cause division and people to be burned at the stake, especially HIS CHOSEN, it doesn’t please God. Jesus pre existed as all of us do; God created us all, and we all existed in God’s plan before He created us. Jesus refers to himself mostly as the son of man, which can best be translated as “human” in Hebrew. Jesus taught that obedience makes one a child of God. God calls Israel His firsborn son, and instructs Moses to tell this to Pharoah.
Dr. Cooper, would you consider doing a podcast that offered an overall critique of the Hellenization thesis? I know it doesn’t have tremendous credibility among mainstream theologians today, but I still find it cropping up in unexpected places and wish I had a more fully articulated response. Being able to answer the “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem” critique also seems fundamental to the pro-scholastic mission of J & S.
@@kylewest9415 What’s wrong with embracing Athens? Clearly the church fathers did.
I really enjoy this series. You are very correct in saying heresy helps form good theology, because these videos make me notice I take for granted a lot of the core, mainstream beliefs today without questioning their origin or codification like The Word of God meaning God's spoken words, Jesus, and the bible.
Regardless of what the 'times' were like, they had the Spirit same as we do today...the Spirit does not lead people to murder.
Proverbs 17:15
"He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD."
Powerful and cogent point.
29:19 MS writing does not say the “logos” was created at “conception”. It states what is said in the Hebrew / Greek Scriptures. It’s not MS being “philosophical”. It seem YOU are the one doing so…
You spent a lot of time denouncing the character of Servetus yet when it gets to Calvin, you said he doesn't have a choice.
How does a Christian not know not to murder others for different beliefs?
Dr also says that Michael Seretus was not humble and thus incorrect able on the premise that Calvin was Right and Servetus was in error!?
This Dr is so bias!!
The Hebrews worshipped and we're widely known to only worship The One True God and thus one true God tells one and ALL who he is through the prophets such as Isaiah 9v6 etc etc.
Adolf Harnack was correct!! And if one reads the prophets in The Holy book, one will clearly see.
The trinitarian doctrin entered at the council of Nicea by comprise, and it's provable and proven.. However, people such as this choose to disregard The all sufficient and sovereign word of God.
Logos is Greek and Daves (I think I've spelt this wrong) is Hebrew and they have very different meanings/understandings behind them. For a greater understanding please check out the RUclips channel "Monarchian", God is walking on water youtube channel and check out the evidence on Monarchianism being orthodox and not the false trinity doctrine.
Greek brought in their philosophy instead of just trusting the simplicity of the word of God.
Born Again Barbarian youtube channel is also one to check out❤
Am currently trying explain Quakerism in a simple way to my students. Would love to hear a talk from you on Quakerism.
Enjoying this series. Greetings from New Zealand
🕆 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.🕆
Let the Holy Spirit guide you this day according to these verses from the bible. Let God’s Peace and Grace be with you (To The Reader). Praise God always. Amen,.,. 🕆🙏🙌
Off topic BUT could you break down where your subscribers come from? By country? I know you're busy but...I'm keen to know, outside US. I also wonder if you would be interested in subtitles, I could do German, I think most guys in Germany wouldn't be fluent enough to follow. Also I have friends in Philippines where we desperately need more Lutheran resources. Cheers
31:00 Your discussion of Servetus's beliefs (both Arian and Sabellian) reminds me of Swedenborgianism or early Mormonism. Some people read the Book of Mormon as teaching a type of modalism where Jesus is a separate body that the Father took on at the Incarnation ("And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son"). It differs from Sabellian modalism in that Christ's body exists permanently after the Incarnation, separately from the Father's body, even though both are manifestations of a single person (so Joseph Smith described the Father and Son as two "personages" that could appear at the same time, even though the BOM portrayal of Christ refers to himself as both the Father and the Son). Ronald Huggins has an article online making the case that Joseph got this view from Swedenborg, before Joseph/the LDS's later move to polytheism.
I hope you have time to talk about Swedenborgianism and the various eras of Mormonism in this series - I'm more familiar with the latter, but I know much less about Swedenborg.
Servetus was not an Arian, and he denounced Sabellius (though Sabellian beliefs are hard to nail down bc none of his writings survived the torch).
That Servetus is not an Arian is clear in the first 5 minutes if you were to read any of his stuff. Guess that’s too hard for some….though they call themselves “academics.” Ha
Joseph Smith’s claim of seeing both the Father and the Son together came years after the Book of Mormon’s display of a modalist christology, and clearly after Smith changed his views on the so-called “Godhead”. The earliest accounts of his “first vision” (1832-1835) only have Jesus appearing to him, which is quite consistent with Book of Mormon modalism.
Are you ok with Servatus being burned at the stake?
He’ll say no, but then he’ll say that was the culture of Christendom back then.
Because ya know murder has always been ok in God’s eyes….
I love how they always try to paint Servetus as bad as they can and make excuses for Calvin's murder of this godly saint. Seemingly, they can not help themselves.
Thank you, very educational.
49:23 and thats what the actual Greek says. There are TWO different terms to describe the TWO different “gods”…
50:12 worship is to be directed to Jehovah God alone. CORRECT. And when those went to bow “in worship” to Jesus, he said don’t do that…
47:09 Isn’t it great, he gets all his information about these groups he is against, from those who are also against them. Never seems to go to the actual groups information… Seems to be how most of these “commenters” do… they don’t study for themselves, just regurgitate old hatred’s of people “his” group or those he agrees with in some form, persecuted.
It would be fun to draw correlations between Reformation heretics/Anabaptists and later revolutionary (Marxist and proto-Marxist/French) movements. I sense we're largely dealing with the same ideas -- Marx seemed to want to emphasize a connection to the peasant wars. The influence of Yoder on Hippie thought, etc
@@rullion451 Anabaptist thought was cited as a foundational influence on Marx, by himself. He didn't shy away from taking pride in that.
Do you have a source for this?
Bullcrap. Marxist nonsense is rooted in anarchy, atheism, and judaism. Unitarians have historically been pacifists who acknowledged complete separation of Church and State. When the Church and State became one, then the religious doctrine of the State became mandatory. Papist Religion, Judaism------both are hypocrites who love the World and not God.
It’s always bothered me how flippantly reformed trinitarians speak about Michael Servetus, a man far superior in genius than any of them.
I notice how you demean Servetus’ character calling him arrogant and abrasive, so as to tear down any of his beliefs.
That he learned the truth about the nature of God in just a year is a testament to what Jesus said: that this is a mystery which has not been revealed to the wise and prudent but to babes. So it seems you are the arrogant one who knows better than Christ, that a man must be well learned and educated in order to grasp a truth Jesus said a small child could understand.
However, reading “On the Errors of the Trinity” will show you just how educated Servetus was. It’s a brilliant theological work, unmatched in the 16th century.
You snicker at him having to flee for his life from city to city. Jesus had no home when he was born nor in his ministry. Would you snicker at him?
Servetus had the courage of his convictions and was burned alive over them. You call that stubbornness.
And as much as you may not want it to be, he is still very much relevant to today. Truth is always relevant.
The Lord bless you Alex.
Sympathize with Calvin the murderer over the man that was murdered? 😂
Yeah ok.
Servetus was right and Calvin was wrong.
Arrogance? Are you kidding?! A man of such education, experience, etc and you think he “made” up his mind in a year. You are adding a lot that is not documented. Why not just read what he published and compare to the Bible????
So I am enjoying this erudite series, however by the standards of this podcast it's pretty clear that I am a heretic, just as well this isn't the 1590s. So IMO the doctrine of the Trinity has a lot going for it, but the problem is limiting God the Father to only having one son! Why would he do that if his mercy is infinite? What about all the other planets that may have intelligent life in this infinite universe? Or supposing that the human race is wiped out and in a few million years another intelligent life form arises on the planet? Or what about all the other inspired teachers of mankind who have appeared to be 'full of God' in no lesser way than Jesus Christ! In some ways the more pragmatic Trinity of Christ, his Gospel and his Church, seems more useful, certainly less devisive...
34:12 you seeming criticize as “pheasant” movements, binge uneducated. Hmmm. Same as the Pharisees speaking of Jesus and his followers….
Calvin was not in an untenable political situation. Calvin, if he was half the exegete that many in the reformed camp claim that he was, he would have known what the scriptural punishment for heresy was.
For those of us who just becoming with the faith, would the punishment be condemnation?
@@lorgaraurelian4076 Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Servetus reminds me of J. N. Darby, a stubborn know it all misinformed schismatic.
Servetus was condemned and rejected everywhere he went for his unorthodox theologies on the Trinity. Its easy for someone to type stuff like this from the end of the history of the situation from an armchair with no influence, about his lack of exegesis. I'm not a Calvinist, but this is an extremely unfair observation.
@@johnnywatson4914 under what circumstances is it "fair" for a Christian to kill anyone for their beliefs, heretical or otherwise?
30:26 so you admit you don’t read actual writings of MS, but secondary commenters on MS work. WOW! Talk about being ill-informed and biased…
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
- Acts 3:19
.
Servetus hater here. You’re characterizing him as arrogant please state why.
Typical of Trinitarians, Dr Cooper misses the point of worship: worship is dependent upon the motive and reason for worship.
Dr Cooper...
I've always characterized the Servetus incident as...
"Servetus burning himself" because Calvin warned him sternly but also with a hint of a humane plea (I've heard of multiple correspondences where the tone got more aggressive by Calvin-which is to be expected. To publicly disregard the orders and request of Geneva and Calvin is the same as Saddam Hussein or some other world challenger subjugating America). In this case it was even worse, He specifically chased after his own destruction... And when someone does that, then pity and mercy on Servatus would only serve to bring scoffing upon Calvin and Geneva.
And from your description of Servetus' demeanor, it brings to mind something of David Bentley Hart's demure humility.
But apparently even Hart doesn't "hold a candle" to Servetus.
The extent some of you will go to in order to justify murder....and yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Christian?
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read here. Sure, MS tied himself up and then lit a match… 🙄
Your sure have to add a lot of “words/terms” to the Bible to justify your beliefs…
Calvin must be in hell for the murder of Servetus
Calvin didn’t murder him and told him not to come, Servetus on the other hand was calling for Calvin’s head.
@@YourBoyJohnny94 Complete lies. It seems you're ok with believing those lies because it helps you justify murder, no?
@@YourBoyJohnny94 Servetus was calling for Calvin's head?? Where's your source buddy??
So Calvin chose to side and agree with the Spanish Inquisition. No excuses fir Calvin ... just as arrogant, and maybe more so, than Servetus.