You want damage? Well we’re taking away 5% of your attack speed if you do. Enjoy jumping in place for 3.5 seconds for that Sunder to only get staggered out midway through the animation!
probably 200 of my 260 hours of gameplay was on warrior so i feel like i know a thing or two. i actually dont mind the attacks becoming slower. the power fantasy of warrior IS big and slow but when you hit something you HIT something. the issue is not enough tank to accompany the slowness. this seems pretty obvious based on node design on the warrior tree. theres literally a node that makes you virtually impossible to stun, but disables your roll. make warrior tanky again and everything else pretty much gets fixed. the fact that warrior is actually the squishiest class in the game is its biggest issue.
Sit and watch range with 3x damage, destroying a Full screen with L.A and 5 attacks per Seconnd. Maybe The marauder and Duelist, change that game for us
It shouldn’t be a thing id be more forgiving if ggg hadn’t had 10 years experience in arpg’s. This shouldn’t be the shit you should be mentioning even in early access when the very company has had years of this feedback and experience
The best way to scale sunder speed tho is skill speed. U can get 22% easily from the tree (12 if u dont wanna spend an anoint in 10% skill speed), plus 20% more from onslaught (easy unique helmet). It feels pretty nice with that
even if you're only throwing perfect strike at heavy stunned enemies, half the uniques in the game have stun animations that move them approximately 500 feet across the screen, it's really obnoxious
Yes! Also perfect strike for me seems to randomly sometimes miss. Like I am holding the mouse on the target but my character does not turn 100% the right way and just attacks next to the enemy instead of on it.
Yeah this is just infuriating. We aren't even the best at stunning, in spite of the mechanic seemingly being designed with warrior 2h mace in mind... Yet you are actively punished by short stuns and 1/3 of the stun window being wasted. Absolute nonsense how anti-warrior this game is. That said, still loving warrior (almost done A3 normal campaign). They are clunky, slow, squishy, but I can't help but enjoy it.
@@magikarp2063I've noticed this since A3 on normal mace swings too even if the enemies are right beside me. Perfect strike's hitbox is nonsense, randomly missing a windup attack feels awful. I've got more than enough accuracy to be 100%
You overlooked one of the biggest issues with mace skills: They all lock you in place. Sparkmage can clear the screen while moving, but auto attacking with a mace forces you to stand still. If the enemy is kiting back even slightly, you miss. One of the biggest issues is that this often forces you to need to cancel your attack to dodge roll in situation where even reduced movement would let you manually position around an enemy attack while still playing out your own attack.
It's weird that you can't move while doing mace skills EDIT: When I used quarterstaff skills they move and sort of leaps forward to mobs it's so insane it is like two groups of people made mace skills and quarter staff skills
Yeah this should probably be changed but you don't have to roll I hardly ever cancel into a roll you can cancel with block or boneshatter and act, it's faster. Maybe this is an issue with two hander only but haven't tried that yet.
Yeah locking in place is dogsh*t... else, if they have similar fluidity with Monster Hunter's Melee weapon. I believe tthe devs don't play melee at all. Imagine Switch Axe, Charged Blade, Greatsword, Dual Blades, S&S in PoE... and You play in Controller... it will be glorious.
I wouldn’t mind the locking in place IF we were playing a slower game. Which I would like. I don’t want poe2 to have atk speed creep and end up like poe1
If you play monk as (phys.) melee its the same garbage. The only reason monk is viable is because it freezes the whole screen so you do not get ragdolled all the time. Otherwise its the same garbage. Many pathing issues, permanent ragdolling around etc. GGG will never get melee viable in PoE2. They had >1ß years and did not get it fixed in poe1 either.
@@immatoll4375well, you know why? Because monk doesn't have much AOE and Physical damage nodes, and monk need to use all the buff and elements to deal mode damage - charged staff, flurry, palm and bell. And guess what, I tried use physical monk, it failed miserably, can't even kill normal mob easily. Then, I use warrior and do physical monk, means I don't increase any attack speed in general, but just level up with all those AOE and Slam nodes, because physical monk skill are almost all locked animation speed, and I kill things way easily since I have high damage, 2 bells + whirling assault = delete boss faster than any class, and bell 1 gone bell 2 is coming, then bell 1, and my whilrling assault AOE range so big I can hit 2 bells and boss without effort. And remember, NEVER EVER put any points on Stun and Dazz, put all in Physical, high Physical damage has higher chance to stun enemies than Stun rate with low physical damage. And of course you better put armour break gem on whirling assault, if not it won't do much damage.
Its not a problem if your able to do real big dmg by hit but melee dmg in poe 2 are too low. In real life getting hit by and arrow or get hit by a mace full force. I pretty sure even with a full plate your brain explode from with in but arrow will ricochet on full plate. Mace should be at least twice the dmg of all ranged weapons.
Wait, THAT'S what's causing it?! I'm over here losing my mind wondering why my movement speed wasn't adding up between my boots and character stats. That's so messed up
@@simonbrunet5605 It's kind of insane that the best warrior builds are all funneled into hammer of the gods (which you won't see until you are around cruel difficulty) or doing steelmage's warcry cheese stuff. Really telling that the entire class lacks damage. I started a new character with the pillar of the caged god unique and went for warbringer over titan 2nd time around so I could get the minus armor stuff cooking. I'm sure lategame titans are fun too, but my titan built up stun so much slower than my warbringer even with like 175%+ investment into stun buildup. My warbringer has nothing invested. My deadeye ranger would stun bosses in half the time just shitting out electric arrow spam with the boss at the opposite screen edge.
Melee with mace skills feel like GGG have gone over them with a fine comb to make sure nothing about them is good. Going from my first character as a titan strength stacker with giantsblood, to a summoner and archer, it really felt like the classes had been designed by completely different companies.
Same to me, since launch i sticked with titan until lvl 92, then i switched to monk. Experience wise totally different game. I can't even compare how much feeling of gameplay is worse for mace skills. Devs just sticked to idea of mace being slow, which is logical. But there is literally no upside to this.
@@majdan07 Maces arent slow, they are just as fast as all other weapons, the problem is reigning them back in once you start swinging... the damage is also WAY more devastating compared to other weapons just from the sheer force and weight
I think a huge problem with POE2 is GGG's philosophy on what you should and should not be able to tank. Damage scales so rapidly and defenses, both the player and mobs scale terribly. If you want to be able to tank damage you should be able to do so, however every build is focused on hyper offense currently. I don't think that energy shield is overpowered at all, just all other defenses are incredibly underpowered. I really don't like that everything at endgame is a glass cannon that is either kill in 1 shot or be killed.
even if you build all type of def on your warrior, it doesn't make sense it takes 2 sec for Sunder to pop out. A monk could just hit you 4 times in 1 sec, drop a bell, 20000 hits, stun the boss, drop another bell and KO the boss.
@@slippers8000 I know I no longer one shot I can only do 1.5 mil a combo now, but could be I am behind on loot. No loot filter on console slows you down haha.
@@vuton7670 Monk can have 2 bells on their skill line up, so they can just drop bell x2, and kill the boss. Especially since they're lightning (best element by far) or Cold (not lightning, but still has its perks with shattering frozen stuff) while warriors are pushed into fire (worst element by far).
True, i think melee should be sturdy and tank almost anything expect boss mechanic because they are slow. elemental damage one shot armor and there is not enough armor for t15map white mobs.
@@nomadraider lets start: Mapping is boring af. Making the maps massive without movement skills, great idea. Melee is bad af. But they fixed it! 🤣 Magicfind. The gameplay loop is boring af. Just look at the top builds. Thats D4 Spiritborn gameplay right there, but even more boring because you move way slower. The engine is still bad and old like POE1. When Microsoft pushes 24H2 we will have a lot of fun because the engine BSODs your system on loading screens. GGG seems unable to fix it, since it's also a bug in POE1 for 4+ months now.
GGG has to be less scared to fail...as for all apes shouting about broken economy which can be fixed with a server reset so for melee they should keep exploring and if its not good wipe and restart...and pls next time call the game beta and keep working hard as usual we will be alway here to wait for their magic😅
another thing about Heavy stun on bosses is how far away from you they fly when you do heavy stun them you lose alot of the window having to run over to them after the stun
@@laszloneumann500 Sounds like you either don't play warrior or don't realise how stupid that 'solution' is. Short stun and you want to dodge roll for the first 1second+?? Good luck getting damage in, chief.
@@laszloneumann500 pull your head out ya ass mate, rolling after them still is time you are losing the problem is the fact the boss literally flys away from you forcing you to gap close with a skill set that is clumsy to use and has alot of wind up times involved.
Wrong, its mace as weapon. Titan warrior is one of the strongest classes for a spellcaster, minion, bow or crossbow build...even as semi totem spellcaster, he works super fine. the problem is melee, and mace only melee. If you switch to quarterstaff, even a warrior can shine.
WoW has done probably the best job of balancing melee and ranged. The main thing they do is make it so that ranged has to stop to cast, while melee can keep moving while casting their skills. This allows them to design different types of boss mechanics that can hurt both melee(ex: ground AoE around the boss that melee have to step out of ) and ranged(ex: rotating beams that force everyone to keep moving) separately. From there, it's just a matter of trying to design bosses that have a similar number of anti melee and anti ranged mechanics. Unfortunately, PoE has seemingly done the opposite of this, and given ranged all the advantages; in PoE melee are the ones that must stand still to cast, while ranged can cast and move. Even if you make it so both melee and ranged can cast and move, ranged would still have the advantage due to AoE mechanics that force players out of melee range. With PoE 2's backwards melee/ranged mobility mechanics, the only real way I see to balance it is to design it in a way such that melee straight up just does more damage when it actually can stay connected to the boss. That or just make melee not really melee(like you say), where they just smash the ground in shoot out a shockwave that hits enemies at range or something like that.
Interesting insight, id honestly prefer animation/cast mehcanics on both melee and ranged. Then just dont have a group of 2 white ranged crabs kill you.
Great point, FFXIV does something similar. Melee have complete mobility with instant-cast skills and play around combos and positioning around the boss (obviously doesn't work without a tank, but the combo thing could), physical ranged are also instant-cast with complete freedom of movement but lower dps potential, and casters have higher dps potential but have to stand still to perform casts. Really good balancing I would say
they probably spent 20% of the game dev time to implement the move and cast/attack at the same time lol, they are never removing this from the game, too proud for that. POE2 is too similar to 1 and if you ask me, they can go back to the drawing board today - they did nothing to revolutionize the ARPG segment, it's all smoke and mirrors.
Perfect Strike misses 75% of time even while bosses are stunned. Alot of the angles you attack from are scuffed. Not to mention Perfect Strike wont always attack the direction your cursor is
I feel like there is no point on using other skills over Sunder for dmg. Sunder can 100% crit when consuming a broken armor, and for some reason the crit multi starts at 200% on main hand and 400% on offhand. If you take the 4 crit damage nodes in the warrior tree along going to giant's blood, the crit multi jumps to 600% on the offhand. You don't get another skill with such scaling, especially if you use giant's blood and use 2x 2h maces to nuke bosses. Even more broken seems to be "aftershock" on sunder, where sunder primarly can only hit once per wave, the aftershock proc that is basically 100% copy of the sunder can hit bosses multiple times, so you can usually oneshot bosses with just one sunder after stunning the boss and using seismic cry (if you don't invest into aftershock chance). Just needs to maximize AoE which is not an issue either while playing Titan, then the aftershock waves will overlap... No other melee skills comes close on damage. Hammer of the gods sucks on damage if people understand sunder's crit and aftershock scaling. It's just bonkers... And best of all, you don't miss with it ever, unlike with other skills, that have "opportunity costs".
Surprised Volatile Plants isn't specifically called out on this list at all, as a melee user the window between projectiles is soooo small for how much damage they do
Yup. Stupid "GOTCHA!" bombs GGG loves putting in places that are best dealt with by staying at range. Surprise surprise, melee needs to be close. The amount of particle clutter that can lead to dying to a volatile plant is too high.
my 2nd map after hitting end game was a boss map that had the Bog Witch + volite plants, I had little to no chances to damage let alone stagger her between her moves, getting back on the bike and blocked by her bones and the chaos orbs aweful.
Exactley! I say, these plants shoud be removed from the game. Every time i see them, i understand that rare mob is WAY TOO difficult for me and my play style with MONK. :( Lots of deaths just bcs of these plants, bcs i HAVE TO BE close AND HITTING the mob. :( Get these plants out of the game or nerf them. But if nerfed, then hust get rid of them.
@jacensolo1987 nah there should be stuff that poses a threat and they're fine to be lethal if you don't respect them but if you do respect them the window should be big enough to deal with the mob
I'm also quite annoyed that skills with cooldown go on cooldown if you have to dodge out of the wind-up animation, which is quite often for warrior because of the so slow attacking.
Same with when you get stunned out of an empowered attack by shouts. Shout, perfect strike or hammer... stunned by tiny attack, then lose empower. feels so bad man.
I dont thing armor is the problem, is the lack of mechanics for the warrior itself. I wouldn need 19k armor if my attacks were instant and not 2,24sec cast.
I don't think melee or warrior is the problem so much as it's the enemies. They made a new game slowed the player down (rightly so) and made top notch animations, then we hit end game and every monster is a spastic on meth attacking in massive swarms. The question isn't if they want to make a "Souls-like" or an ARPG but rather do they want an ARPG or a bullet hell shooter. Because the game goes from ARGP in campaign to bullet hell shooter in end game.
I think a key moment was me on merc getting a combo skill and trying it out. The lightning one that u then detonate? By the time i did that, the damage was mediocre and I could have done 4x the damage in less time by spamming galvanic shot.
Yeah, it makes no sense to me that GGG made the campaign with this slower, more challenging and more interesting combat and then just put in the PoE 1 endgame mess where if you're not instantly screen-clearing then you're getting merc'd by ultrafast packs of kamikaze death-effect mobs.
@@BlankerWitt1 if only, that issue starts already in second half of act 3, everything from that point is zoom zoom swarms that require screen wide clear playstyle
Barb/Warrior melee is one of only areas that D4 poops all over POE on. Barb/Warrior melee in POE2 is the most unsatisfying version I have tried so far.
I don't think it's unsatisfying. When you armor break a boss, stun them, and then basically one-shot them with Sunder + Aftershocks, it's one of the most satisfying feelings ever. The problem is more the lack of clearspeed for general content, the constant stuns, the need to setup a basic combo for 5sec and the missing tankiness. For me, it's more about the fact that the warrior has too many frustration points, rather than the combos themselves being unsatisfying. One reason why warrior feels bad is that monk feels 1000% smoother to play in comparison.
@@TimoNausch100% this. Other classes get to smoothly transition from going fast to hitting hard. Titan and warbringer only get to shine when the stars align or they have 400% increased aoe. My warbringer didnt feel good until i gave up on melee all together for clear and now i just use a crossbow, warcrys, and totems for clearing. I only melee once every 3 maps to instakill a boss and it's so much better.
I have a dual wield 2h warrior in endgame. What's ironic is I end up using a ranged playstyle coz if I melee everything face to face, I get erased easy.
Yes, I'm playing a full strength gemling. I was using bone storm against most bosses until I saw a video about shield wall and now I mostly use earthquake/shield wall (which hits anything on the screen I don't actually have to be in melee)
do you know whats even more criminal ? the support gems for Herald of Ash compared to Herald of Thunder or Cold... its LITERALLY 2 DIFFERENT DESIGN TEAMS LIKE WTF, why can Thunder and Cold Heralds support so much and you can increase their dmg but Herald of Ash has to work TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY and only be supported by like 10 gems of which half are "coming soon" and of the other half 3 are playable... wtf is this shit and lets not even get started with giants blood... 3 times... THREE TIMES THE ATTRIBUTE REQUIREMENTS, that shit should be 2.5 times AT MOST
I think the Giant's Blood restriction is fine. What isn't is that warriors feel compelled to take Giant's Blood. That means one handed maces are too weak in comparison. As GGG themselves say, if everyone feels they have to take X, there's a major balance issue at play. And, in this case, I don't think it is that Giant's Blood is too strong, but rather, that the standard 1h mace is too weak.
@@Axterix13 One handed maces being weak (due to minimum attack time) is one part of it. The other is that a shield just feels mandatory with how weak the other defensive options are on the warrior's side of the tree (lol armor). People aren't even taking Giant's Blood for the fantasy of wielding two giant hammers, it's just so they can go sword and board.
Also it seems that you miss a lot of attacks even with 100% estimated accuracy. Even though you are supposed to have no penalties within 2m. And this isn't even against enemies with evasion, it's nearly all enemies. I've had situations where I miss around 20-25% of my attacks. It's frustrating when you pair it with the long attack times and even more so when you get knocked around in the middle of your attacks too.
I think accuracy is bugged, i had 94% at some point and started missing a lot, i felt like 1 in 3 attacks were just missing, got back to 100% and it was alright.
@ ‘supposedly’ the accuracy shown in the attacks is not accounting for enemy evasion, which we have no way of knowing how much, if any, they have, which unless the have the evasion tag I feel they shouldn’t have any evasion at all, but anyways..it seems like the enemy can still ‘dodge’ our attacks regardless of our accuracy unless you have that one node where you can’t crit but enemies can’t evade you anymore. Which should NOT be mandatory to feel ‘normal’.
I had an awful experience with this in act 3 normal yesterday. I had 94% accuracy and was missing 2-3 attacks on every mob in aggorat and doriyanis map. I got lucky crafting a good accuracy ring but had to sacrifice a lot of resistances for it. WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME TO EQUIP ACCCURACY RINGS OR INCREASE DEX ON A MELEE TANK CHARACTER😭😭
Armour and life are a big problem for Warrior survivability right now but I'd add that sometimes monsters just make you feel helpless. I'll start a breach and get surrounded but since my skills take so long to use I can get stunned or staggered out of the animations and die because I can't attack. Carn's quote of "I have to consult with my lawyer before I attack and then he gets back to me 7 business days later" resonated with me so much. The staggered out of animation doesn't even take much. Like 4 monsters hitting me mid stampede can be enough. And the rag dolling feels fucking awful, I've done the slam of Stampede and just got sent like 10 feet away from the monsters from a rag doll or deflection. I'm constantly worried now they'll nerf Hammer of the Gods and I'll have zero enjoyment out of warrior and have to build something new.
I'm honestly confused why they even want ragdolling to be a thing, it honestly only detracts from the game and adds absolutely nothing but suffering. It's unavoidable, unlike the water blobs from the river hags, which for some odd reason some people are having a hard time with and die to it, but yeah, ragdolling has no good reason to be in a game genre like ARPGs, where you're supposed to have full control over your character at basically all times. I'd love to ask Jonathan why he thinks ragdolling belongs in PoE2, his answer being probably something like "I just love seeing people dying to bullshit"
@@banishedbr I disagree. My 640 strength titan shouldn't get staggered by a group of enemies like that. If I got slammed by a boss a stun makes sense, but 4 normal mobs shouldn't be a big deal.
This is so infuriating. I'm a warrior with 650 STR holding a thick and large shield but when I'm surrounded by even the smallest monsters I freeze and die... Try stampede nope stunned. Try leaping out... Nope I was stunned and sat on my ass. A warcry to give me some space... Nope they're back on you before your warcry animation ends
@@Robotlien Some pushiness is good to have in limited degree. So creatures feel like actual entities in the world. But there should be mechanics for melee and strength based chars to resist anything significant (or remove it in general, the serious pushing you around). Like those delirium mobs, which are also pretty small. Spawn out of nowhere, sprint tackle you to the other end of the map. The water blobs are funny lol I have never died to them, I even wondered what actually happens when I encountered them during the campaign. They are easy to avoid even on my slow ass mace melee char...
missing with melee with 100% accuracy feels horrible. Being forced to take the keystone for never missing but never getting critical hits isn't good design. missing a perfectly timed and aimed perfect strike is shit, accuracy and random chance to miss in an action rpg is an old school game mechanic that hasn't ever felt good in a non turn based system.
Also do you find that even with that notable you still sometimes miss? It might just be me but I feel like a lot of melee just misses no matter what at times, like it's a strange hitbox issue?
Also about perfect strike, even if you are not radgolled 10 feet way from the monster, 1/4 times the hitbox of the monster is so fkin bad, you land it on the monster, and that not proc, you don't hit the monster, even if you are sniffing his ass and well positionned
Before launch GGG said this game would be slow paced and melee would be king. In reality the monsters are running faster than the speed of light and melee have 0 defences and no damage. This game is not even close to be complete. They shouldnt have launched the early access at all in this state.
If they look at the well reasoned feedback, and act appropriately, it's a good thing. Remains to be seen though. Until I see different, I expect it to turn into full on PoE 1 speed meta.
@@WhatsTheTakeaway nah nah, just those ones that speed out of fucking nowhere where and if you haven't already thrown damage they stick to you no matter your movement speed or dodgerolling
Honestly, the Mace skills are so bad, I feel like they should have left Warrior out of EA at the start. They definitely need a rework. Hopefully Axe and Sword skills are much better, when we get them. What exactly does GGG think the benefit of Mace skills is? Stun? Needs more work if that is the case. It's not damage. You can get more damage from bow skills and spells, for sure. It's not a big, beefy, stun-proof character. ES and/or Evasion characters are tankier and less likely to get stunned. I'm at a loss as to why someone would actually choose to use Mace skills, other than "I like to hit things with a big stick".
The reason is, I didn't know how bad it is before the release and it's what I went with. (and haven't given up yet, +time investment to do new char...)
It feels like there is two different games. You have the new style which includes slower pace, warrior HP/Armour and acts 1-3, second is basically POE1 ES/mana/Archmage 5secs boss fights. I hope they lean into the new style. If they buff HP/Armour instead of nerfing ES, we basically have POE1 with Dodge Roll, WASD and Active Block.
The core underlining problem with melee is that melee needs to put in 10x the effort for 10% of the results. You can talk about x y or z being fine but that's because you put in such disproportionate effort. I can say I have no problems with performance but i have a ultimate PC does that mean that performance in POE is fine?
"10x the effort for 10% of the results" is a great way to explain Warrior gameplay. It can be fun, but at the same time exhausting when each engagement requires so much work. There are so many mob types and modifiers that are difficult to deal with on Warrior. I hardly have to care about anything on my Ranger.
I generally disagree, its less that it takes more effort is that its more unsafe in many more situations. If an armor warr was twice as tanky as a wizard in robes (which we could probably agree makes thematical sense) then warr would be completely fine. Instead you are half as tanky aswell as the added "cast" time of your skills.
Yeah poe has a lot coding problems, had the same issues with poe1 4 years ago than with this game in the same pc xD they copy pasted a lot of the motor and code of the game. I can feel it cause it does the same bottleneck to my cpu xD and people is laggin the server with their build lol, thats just bad coding. You dont let code game change server latency lol wtf
I think the main problem is warrior need to trade offence to defence most of the time in order to stay alive, and with high defence he deal peanut damage, with low defence he can die from peanuts mobs attack.
yep, not sure how anyone can argue with this especially when watching ziz playing spark during his interview vids. Zero effort screen clearing, energy shield and hp not even moving.
My biggest problem is that they said multiple times that "melee is really good now" The only good thing about it is perfect strike and Hammer of the gods having insane dmg multipliers.
My only issue to add, when you stun an enemy it feels good and impactful, but many enemies getting physically moved farther away than my currently winding up attack feels terrible. So you typically roll out of your new attack to reposition just to get there in time for the stun to be ending. It also causes situations where I stun enemies thinking they are dead just for them to come racing behind me. I feel they want stun to give you space by pushing enemies back, but it feels terrible when I just want to finish killing something. It will probably remain annoying even when we get sword and axe attacks.
Any build where you have to stand near mobs, you have an issue. You get swamped, blocked/stunned, not able to dodge and you die. Boss fights are worse.
98.4% of all monsters having some form of homing projectiles, aoe auras or ground effects that damage you in melee range is another problem that should be brought up, especially since all melee skills lock you in place, and dodge rolling away results in no damage and the skill going on cooldown.
I would love it if they just come out and nerf auto attack to force you to use other skills KEKW that would be a certified GGG moment. Also the biggest problem with the melee is that "+X seconds total attack time" values does not scale with attack speed. Even you have tons of attack speed your sunder will still take 2+ seconds to go out.
Probably not gonna happen with the way Early Access has been marketed thus far, but Mace skills zero trade was an amazing campaign experience. But after finishing Act 3 Cruel and reaching about level 67-70, the game just kind of falls apart. There are foundational mechanics and design choices that should probably just not be a part of PoE2, at least at this time. (1) Movement speed bonuses should be removed from affixes. The hidden -10% to movement speed from armor chests should also be removed or negated once you meet some other benchmark such as 1.5x attribute requirement (it should also be visible). Small 5-10% movement speed bonuses could probably be on Ascendancy points for certain classes. Having player characters move at an expected speed helps a lot with mob and boss balance. Attack speed should likewise be gated to the passive tree or perhaps the occasional unique item. (2) Trade should not be a part of EA at all and probably not a part of PoE2 based on the campaign design (the most finished component of the game). Trade cheats the experience for the player and discourages anyone at GGG from designing engaging bosses. This is especially true at the top end of content. If I don't know how to kill a boss, my best option is to trade the access to it for guaranteed return. If I do know how to kill a boss, but cannot reliably do so on my build, I should sell the fragments. If my build can trivialize the boss then I should buy fragments and kill the boss in less than ten seconds for profit. So you see almost no one is actually playing the boss you spent hundreds of hours designing and creating assets for; why keep doing it? If I am a player and I want to take on harder content such as a boss I haven't defeated, in trade league, my best option is to grind currency (not gear) until I can purchase what I need to trivialize that content; probably by selling boss access fragments. This is a just a job with extra steps. Without trade I would have to uuhhh... play the game. (3) Other skills should be brought in line with Maces. Probably the most simple combo every mace-user has right now is Stun Buildup Skill + BoneShatter, but this isn't useful for bossing which necessitates at least 3 skills. This is probably the simplest Warrior build, but Totems and Warcries remain useful. Monk is in a similar state. Every other weapon/skill class has degenerated into 1 or 2 button mob deleters. A lot of this is due to the movement speed arms race caused by (1). (4) Accuracy makes no sense in current design. It has common systems based RPG problem of: I swung my sword at the monster, the render on screen agrees I hit the monster, but the dice rolling machine backstage says I didn't, so I don't. However if I play a ranger I gain accuracy as I level and never have to care about it. If I play a spellcaster then the game simply agrees that where I sent the fireball is where it hit without further checks. Why is melee the only one doing accuracy dice rolls that matter? If I have no accuracy and I shoot an arrow or sling a fireball, there should be no guarantee that it ends up where I intended. Have it drift by a few degrees and this drift is greater the more inaccurate I am. This turns accuracy into a defensive affix that allows me to stand further from my targets. This also lends itself well to minions being a playstyle that makes sense. 'I want to sling spells but don't want to worry about accuracy.' There will be nothing to distinguish between PoE1 or PoE2 within ~3 years of full launch if (1) speed and (2) money are not addressed. You will have simply wasted a lot of time and (real) money hyping up what will eventually degenerate into PoE1 with new paint anyways (and is already doing).
Agree wholeheartedly with point (4). Accuracy as a stat really only belongs to board games and turn based games as a way to simulate your character not hitting perfectly all the time. In ARPGs you, the player, are the one aiming your attack yourself, so it feels bad for the game to say "nope, your damage is zero now because you rolled a nat 1" even if you can successfully pass the player skill check. To add insult to injury, monster slams in PoE2 don't need accuracy (i.e. can't be avoided) by default. To avoid it, you need to physically move out of the attack radius. But when it comes to player slam attacks, all of a sudden you need accuracy. Their old reasoning of "attack builds need to deal with accuracy, spell builds need to deal with mana" doesn't apply in PoE2 either because attack builds somehow still need to deal with mana as well as accuracy.
Accuracy rating is also an issue. Even at 100% chance to hit within 2M you still miss often. They should just remove the stat and give everything a 100% chance to hit unless the mob has the evasive modifier.
I agree with you, but currently there's an ability called "Resolute Technique" in the passive tree near warrior start that makes it so you always hit but you forgoe critical hits entirely. After getting the ability the game has become much easier as warrior as you don't have to deal with accuracy stat and evasive enemies mean nothing to you. If you were using Sunder, you can replace it with "Hammer of the Gods" for a similar effect.
accuracy on AOE attacks makes 0 sense. or if we want to keep accuracy spells should have some limiting factor, because as it seems the only one is mana, which is kinda fake since they already invest into mana via int and other nodes. looks as relevant as accuracy on monk
1., Resolute technique 2. Theres a node giving you accuracy for STR stacking towards merc side of skilltree If u cant solve accuracy, thats a skill issue
The idea behind mele is cool, but the way mobs act at higher level, as you said, high on crack, just doesn't work. You can't have a +1 sec wind up attack while getting zerg-rushed from all directions
This game is only 'dark souls-like' if you're playing warrior. I've to constantly evade, wait patiently for a window and know when to hit and counter attack. Every other class has been a breeze. I still think Warrior has been a fun class to play, but its just not competitive or efficient.
Been playing Warrior Titan since release, and it is complete misery in endgame. I have invested +30 divine orbs into my setup which gives me 12k armor, 4.2k life, 75% block and obviously capped resistances. I still cannot do T15 maps consistently if I want to engage with any league mechanics (which is where all the currency/rare monsters are). The number one thing to increase the fun on melee is just to make it tanky again. We can handle killing stuff slower than everyone else, but dying more than any other class on top of that is just exhausting. One avenue to make you tanky is EHP, which can come from fixing the way armor is calculated and giving the biggest armor base + to max res as implicit and have access to more max res on the tree. Flat phys reduction mods or max res mods on more pieces of armor gear would also help a ton. Another avenue to make you tanky is to give you faster movement. This means removing less attack speed nodes from the passive tree and having skills speed scale from weapon speed better (and not from movement speed like with Stampede). This means removing the heavy movement penalty from armor gear. The last avenue to make you more tanky is movement restriction. This comes in the form, as you mentioned, of being ragdolled, and "gravity" from strength is a great solution. It also comes from movement restricting mods like slow and freeze, and the solution to these is to have charm slot 2 and 3 be unlocked through campaign quests or endgame content and reworking charms to be actual solution to problems (fixing not working on dot effects or there being no counter to curses).
Switch to "totems", and use your dual wild 2-h to get +7 to skills per hand. you loose block, but with all 3 totems nodes, you kill off screen. You can push totems skills this way to maximum 40 level (with amu and gloves) and they hit hard. And of course, aim the 50% of life == Energy shild level 1 body armor. Like all build, energy shild wins.
Not to knock your suggestion, but the solution to "melee and armor sucks" is not to just play something else :) I want to bonk and the game won't let me :)
I don't think any defensive measure even ES alone is effective enough to survive in hard maps. They, for some reason, didn't want anyone to be too tanky. The moment I'm in a crowded event like breach or even ritual sometimes, the moment I'm surrounded I'm dead. Other classes mostly survive it because they kill really fast.
If you want to be a tanky warrior you need to get the svalinn shield on a warbringer with cloak of flame and as many +max fire res cores as you can muster. It's better than 30k armor and costs one ex.
The fix for melee is super easy, the devs are just too stubborn. Ranged has a natural advantage of being ranged, that should be goal of a ranged character, playing around your distance to deal as much damage as possible from a perfectly safe distance, and that's okay, that should include lower access to aoes unless there is a cost involved, that should include increased wind ups and casting animations, and so on... currently the game is the EXACT opposite, a warrior currently is worse at every single aspect of the game, for no reason, no reason. Warrior IS playable, warrior is NOT clunky as many people say (ignoring the fact you get pushed around), the problem of warrior is the lack of game balance around numbers and how other spells work. As some people like to say "warrior is the only one playing PoE 2". My suggestion for a class like warrior is pretty simple: make them POWERFUL. You shouldn't be afraid to take damage, you shouldn't be afraid of a lot of things, it's that simple, even if it costs making the game on the easy side for a tanky build, it doesn't matter, if the player has chosen to spec into a warrior/tanky archetype you SHOULD be a god around monsters, period. A ranger/mage get to move so fast and delete screens so fast that trivializes any other incentives, and warrior just tries to compete for the same niche and it upsets people, you should have a massive variation in performance, a ranger should be safe, a ranger should have a good single target dps, but a warrior shouldn't be afraid of monsters, a warrior should be one stunning bosses constantly (currently he's not even that better compared to others, why?!)... you should add massive distinction among archetypes and weapons and how stats work to support those choices, instead this is feeling a lot like PoE 1 and if that's to be case we'll just care about clearing screen as fast as possible and the "meta" will always be surronding this samey way of playing, if you could ACTUALLY build your character and choose someone who is more reliable defensily, who is more aggressive and tanky, someone who can clear small group of large monsters easier, that should be warrior, whereas ranger should kite everything, be safe, kill at a distance, mages should crowd control, have access to powerful nukes, and play around casting times for powerful effects... the game is completely upside down, mages are cocaine addicts and warriors are turtle slow.
Beyond the Armor buff, I have to wonder if they're going to change much on Warrior at all if he's merely "okay" overall. Alkaizer predicted that all the other classes are much more likely to get nerfed to Warriors level than vice versa.
@@brofstI would, everyone says they don’t want it to be Poe 1 yet everyone is trying to make their builds Poe 1 builds. I think this is just cope and nerfing everything to war levels will make a significant portion of the player base leave Remember the devs “intended” for use to play with multiple skills combining into one another, the only class that is doing that right now is monk, all others are using 1-3 active skills and the rest passive buffs. People unironically don’t understand what they want from the game based on the gap in what people say they want vs how they play the game
@@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274 Plus, nerfing all the classes to warriors level without making the necessary systemic changes would honestly be a bit outrageous and illogical. Monsters move at POE 1 speeds while doing more damage and with a fraction of the defensive options of poe 1. I think the GGG devs are competent enough to realize that nerfing everything is not balance
Trial of Sekhemas is horrific on melee as well, the honour mechanic seems designed to tell tanky and melee builds to not even try unless you severely overlevel it or change your entire build. And with the gating of ascendancy behind it and the rarity of the coins and losing them on death, just a total kick in the jewels. It's also glaring when I watch a ranged player do the same content, and how they just run and spam one button and everything dies for an entire screen meanwhile as a warrior you're constantly dodging, using combos, and setting up cooldowns to do worse. It's like you're playing on hard mode.
There is a notable between Warrior and Mercenary that gives 3 Stun Threshold per 1 Strength, and there's also a notable near warrior that gives a % of armor on gear to Stun Threshold. But I do agree that it'd be really nice if stun threshold reduced how much monsters can displace you and how much you can displace them.
The 'upsides must have downsides' mentality never appealed to me and is completely dumb in my book. Pulling that off with something as significant to melee gameplay as attack speed is absolutely not thought out well.
I think a very important thing that no one is talking about is that mace is the only weapon which doesn’t get an improved auto attack. Maybe the maces you get later have their own better auto attack but having the same bonk from the beggining of the game while ppl are shooting lighting, poison and monk is blasting away with combo basic attacks.. just feelsbad
I agree with the points made in the video. Some thoughts on tweaks: -Make armor work on all projectiles, including spells (plate would certainly take the sting off a fireball or ice shard irl). -Allow for movement, albeit reduced, during long wind-ups. -Reduce mana with a purpose, such as, lowering trash clearing ability's mana cost, but keeping abilities in boss/sustain fights still pricey enough such that the efficiency mechanic is still a factor. -Give all characters base evasion (and adjust evasion stacking builds accordingly) such that armor will take away from it a little, but not entirely (e.g. you have a default 20% evasion and with max heavy armor you've lost 8%, but you still have 12% evasion)...or toss in a passive or two up front that gives extra evasion based on armor over a certain threshold. Thanks for the vid, feedback is crucial for a game's success!
Warrior and Maces should be 30% faster with hits and animations. Warrior skills are sooooo slooooow that before you hit you are already dead because 20 monsters rushed at you already. Armor should not have negative scaling with bigger hits. If armor is giving you a 30% reduction then so be it no matter how hard the hit was. Mana cost is another issue with Warrior and Monk because these classes don't stack intelligence which means a big mana pool.
there's this weird design missmatch where your single target as warrior requires you to stand still but also your defensive options are really, really bad vs single target enemies. Like, if you invest a lot into armor+block+hp it can feel good mapping even on 17-18 tier maps... but single target is kinda just painful rn.
Mana should be for spells or special type abilities like warcry's, etc. IMO accuracy should be for ranged attacks only. Remove the movement speed penalty for armour. Throw out the amour formula and have it act just like elemental resistances. If they are concerned about being too tanky for bosses with armour, give them overwhelm like elemental pen. This game is extremely punishing for being at close range... give melee a break for goodness sakes.
I don't think armour working like resistances can scale in a comparable way with evasion and energy shield. Each stat has its own defence that should be relatively equal for scaling (es is currently stronger than the others)
I agree with the big problem in going for a slower playstyle for poe2 and long combos, it feels like we are trying to play that way but GGG put poe1 monsters into poe2. And we are seeing the players adjusting to this problem by finding ways to make builds that play more like poe1 builds, one click screen wipes. Melee needs adjusting but so do some of the enemies.
the way warrior is right now has no place in a game that poe2 is currently, it feels like they were trying to make the game with a much slower pace than poe1 and then realised too late that its boring or something, the maps are literally the same insane fuckfest filled with crazy modifiers just like poe1 and the warrior class cant handle it
Warrior can handle it... just take any skill that has 400% attack damage at lvl 17, give it cold infusion and freeze buildup and take herald of ice, now get the ring that shatters chilled enemies, yes i know thats the Ice Strike Monk build but i want to clear breaches (the only good farm in endgame) while also clearing screen because they removed the armorbreakexplosion chaining like it is currently happening on Ice Strike Monk xD
@felixmustermann790 so play every single warrior the same way? Please, this may be one aspect to fixing some issues, but this type of fix is not for everyone. Variety and utility need to be the focus vs defaulting to the other thing that works.
They started endgame in 2024. It was a rushed job, and undercooked. This next month will be very telling on whether the vision will remain, or if they will throw in the towel on the souls arpg.
I enjoyed all 6 acts with warrior i loved making it a souls game. Ill probably only ever play melee builds , sadly endgame really just requires a "click and everything dies" build which im really not dying about.. armour is something they need to fix asap
It’s utter bs how bad they have made mace skills. I started Titan and was stubborn about it for the first week. The Ranger, Witch and Merc I’ve played since have all felt like easy mode in comparison. It was so bad I turned my Titan into a minion build running ES.
My titan is a fire mage, but I did this intentionally from the start to see if I can find broken things with 50% better passives on magic things. Gemling does ok in mace skills because of strength stacking, and can use bone shards for backup ranged attack. It's sad that the best mace user isn't the pure strength class
As someone who almost quit the game over Melee (Got severely depressed for about a week) before switching to totems I think the entire problem is a design problem. Playing with Melee and Mace skills specifically they all have large delays or wind ups it's over choreographed and designed more like your playing a boss but without the damage If you imagine attack lines you can easily see what i mean, Boss attacks have a huge wind up give some sort of indicate where the attacks going to do damage to give you time to move before the attack, Mace skills are all designed in the same way and it just feels terrible.
perfect strike definately has targeting issues. my warrior was setup with exploding bolts and perfect strike where i converted all fire damage into cold so i could freeze enemies, my experience is that once the enemy is frozen it no longer highlights them and auto targets at them so you were very likely to completely whiff the hit on a the target even though you were standing next to them and they were frozen
Im okay with stampeede going weird, but i dropped my 90 lvl titan cuz it cant live boss autoattack with 10 div gear, so im perma dark souls 1 hp no hit run mode.
> auto attack is your best single target I feel this a lot, I basically used auto attack for single target through the entirety of the campaign. Why does it have the fastest base attack speed on warrior, have a comparatively insane atk dmg ratio and automatically get lesser + greater jeweler orbs applied to it? (he needs it though, his other skills suck in comparison)
I really wish Melee skills came with an innate bonus Fortification after striking an enemy. Melee skills should NEVER lock you in to place. If anything, melee skills should be the most flexible with movement, with ranger attack benefiting from distance with the caveat of having slow to activate skills.
Look they have only had 13 years to make melee good. Give them some time. I'm sure it will be fine. I mean they said they needed to make an entire new game to make melee better. Look how that turned out.
They need to take a look at how Destroyer plays in lost ark. Slow/charge up skills, big damage, nothing "gets in your way", high defense, lots of super armor built into skills (no getting pushed around/CC'd.)
If they're going to force you to be slow with mace warrior via no sources of atkspeed and locked minimum animation times, they need to give some damage reduction and stun threshold buff/immunity during that unremovable windup
🤣Getting body-blocked and pushed around by rolling beetles while you have Titan's blood and hulking forms. They also need to reconsider the added flat attack times that are not scalable by any means on some of the skills. Consider how a Stormweaver could fire 40+ projectiles each second, and a single projectile could deal more damage than a sunder that takes 3 seconds to channel.
A big issue with melee for me is that you can't move while doing your attacks (perfect strike is the worst offender for this). I think you should be able to run and do all your melee attacks at the same time, makes sense thematically as well.
Absolutely, charge attacks should have extreme hyperarmor and some damage reduction to compensate that you have to stand still, and also to play up the tank power fantasy
so the way you fix stun threshold is support gem called "Unbreakable". it gives 200% stun threshold when using the skill. you stop getting stunned. i think bigger the problem is that damage isn't high enough for DPS oriented melee and as a result, aliment application is based off total damage so it is difficult to apply aliments to the boss such as "Stun" and "Daze". Melee in this game seems design around doing burst damage in short time window ->stunning the boss->more damage // boss goes invul to stun for like 10 seconds, rince & repeat. This logic also applies to freeze and eletrocute.
I've actually had stampede ricochet me right back into a Sanctum trap and almost kill me when I was low level, lol. Perfect strike is also very easy to interrupt and forces you to stand still so long that it can be very dangerous to use in some situations. I think regardless of whether other skills are too strong, a lot of warrior skills just feel bad to use in the endgame. It's just not damage numbers that are the issue.
Yeah. it's still early. However, it's interesting that it is melee that is the one with serious issues. Not magic, not ranged, not minions, just melee. And yeah, monk is not melee.
They talked a big game about how melee is good though. And how the game isn't like PoE 1 in terms of speed, visual clarity and nuking entire screens of monsters. When it is in fact, clear speed meta and designed around it. With the mob density, especially in some content, and their speed. (not really a problem for most besides melee) Well, I was expecting it, since on the big stream they were suddenly pandering to the PoE 1 "I wanna be light speed and nuke screens with 1 button" crowd. And posting teasers of skills that had full screen AoE with horrible visibility, like cluster grenade.
Warrior definitely needs to be looked at and inspected.... I looked forward to playing a Melee class for the first time and INSTA Nope'd from that and Rolled my comfortable Minion build... Melee needs help... GGG it's a problem...
Frankly, I think Mace skills need one thing to work with their huge fixed execution time: Hyper Armor. Put 90-95% all damage reduction (and stun/status buildup) along with stagger/stun immunity on all those 'fixed additional time to execute' skills and you turn something that makes them useless into a high skill tanking technique. Oh boss is going to do it's big slam? Free damage opening for Mace user. Wall of projectiles? Leap slam through with the Hyper Armor up so it doesn't matter. That kind of thing would give Mace a distinct role in letting players essentially 'parry' attacks that way and justify the execution speed limiters. Heck, some people might actually avoid increased attack/skill speed for more armor frames.
Even with the gap close that we have now, melee just doesn't feel like it flows well for warrior/mace. You gotta dodge roll out of attacks like you're playing Monster Hunter or something. And the dodge roll slows you down, or get you stuck on mobs or other obstructions, then you get hit more. Every skill seems to have huge wind ups and exit animations and it just feels meh
My biggest problem with melee is that you have to be close to enemies, end kill everything in 1hit and run away from the corpses or you are dead, even if you wont die to melee mobs you die to ranged mobs because while surrounded, stuck in animation everything ranged blasts you for free uncontested. This also applys to monk, but less.
I actually like the big wind ups for mace attacks and assume things like swords, daggers and even axes will be quicker, but I think to balance that the mace skills need quite a damage bump across the board. This would also require armour to get a bit of a buff so that you can tank the hits a bit more while winding up as well. I do like the idea of a class of weapons and skills being that big wind up, big damage though so I hope they do balance it that way as well.
It really feels like shit when physical damage is gated behind accuracy while magical damage is not. Hammer of the Gods (A "KINETIC IMPACT") should not have an accuracy rating. It's too long of a fucking cooldown, it's super fucking hard to land on bosses that dash around 40 fucking times AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT BULLSHIT, YOU STILL NEED TO WIN THE ACCURACY CHECK FOR A FUCKING KINETIC IMPACT?!?!?!?!?!?!
they always state that poe 2 was mainly made because melee needs to be fixed. Now we got this diabolical melee gameplay on warrior/mace specifically. started warrior back on 6 and it was one of the worst game time I experienced.
6:18 the ragdoll issue is particularly bad when playing co-op because it seems like other players are treated as 'large monsters' in that they can push you around. The hitboxes get stuck on each other because the momentum of each player is trying to push the other a different way and if I happen to be in the way of my buddies monk combo I am just along for the ride at that point.
The current viable warrior builds: storm wave/ice strike monk hammer of the gods chronomancer shout warbringer to keep the mobs away from you energy shield nightrobe Kripp copewarrior
Warrior can run Herald of Ice funnily enough, just support stampede with Cold Infusion, Glaciation and Cold Penetration, the unique ring and during breaches the screen will explode just like for monks Warrior even had their own Ice Strike Monk fun, Armorbreakexplosions used to behave like Herald of Ice with infinite chaining, but it got nerfed because its "unintentional", so Ice Strike Monk will be nerfed
wouldn't mind some kind of dark souls hyper armour system or something for when you're winding up big attacks, and maybe some baseline splash/overkill stuff to help w impact
65% armour is not even a thing. It is a lie on the character sheet. Only important number is the amount of armour you have. 65% number does not mean anything.
What were you even expecting, these are dogshit stats. I would agree that there are issues with the avalable defences outside of es and maybe evasion but cmon, with those stats you have a lot of room to grow.
the raw stat of defense is just not here, I am able to make my warrior with 5k armor, 4k life, 5k ES, 75% block chance and still die occasionally in T15 map because the monsters keep pushing me and stuck me
The best to play warrior is to not use melee at all. Also its typical of GGG to make melee bad for 5 leagues in a row, just to buff it so its just as good as ranged characters, and then nerf it the next league 😅 it feels like nobody on the dev team play melee at all 😔
May I add: sekhema's trials are insane for true melee, so you'll end up getting your ascendancy points later than when you need them (or never). Not enough ways to generate endurance charges and underwhelming skills that make use of them. Stun threshold hard to understand compared to the full stun immunity available in PoE1.
This might not have bothered other people as much as it bothered me but I utterly loathe that I can't stack Earthquakes on one spot. If I want to do a second earthquake in the 14 seconds since I made the first one, I need to go through the, not small effort as melee, effort of moving and putting another one.
This bothered me, and the fact that it takes a lifetime for it to actually go off. Even with the fast forward gem, it's actually an extremely unplayable skill unless you like running in circles
@@Ascension88 Earthquake becomes very powerful once you have a good amount of AoE + aftershocks, it just blows half a screen + herald of ash, you can reduce the explosion even further with passive tree nodes. Earthquake is strong when there's a lot of monsters but rolling slam is still the most powerful to down a rare or boss or smaller groups, it just has a lot of insane multipliers + damage when they get stunned. The tremors gem can make a single earthquake explode like 5/6 times a row, it is clunky the fact you can't attack the same spot to trigger multiple of them, but a little bit to the side already works, they should fix it because it's just an unnecessary annoyance, probably not even intended. Also roling slam's aftershocks are bugged, it doesn't do any damage.
You want damage? Well we’re taking away 5% of your attack speed if you do. Enjoy jumping in place for 3.5 seconds for that Sunder to only get staggered out midway through the animation!
You get staggered lucky I just get insta killed mid animation by any various chaos spewing projectile mobs.
probably 200 of my 260 hours of gameplay was on warrior so i feel like i know a thing or two. i actually dont mind the attacks becoming slower. the power fantasy of warrior IS big and slow but when you hit something you HIT something. the issue is not enough tank to accompany the slowness. this seems pretty obvious based on node design on the warrior tree. theres literally a node that makes you virtually impossible to stun, but disables your roll.
make warrior tanky again and everything else pretty much gets fixed. the fact that warrior is actually the squishiest class in the game is its biggest issue.
Sit and watch range with 3x damage, destroying a Full screen with L.A and 5 attacks per Seconnd. Maybe The marauder and Duelist, change that game for us
It shouldn’t be a thing id be more forgiving if ggg hadn’t had 10 years experience in arpg’s. This shouldn’t be the shit you should be mentioning even in early access when the very company has had years of this feedback and experience
The best way to scale sunder speed tho is skill speed. U can get 22% easily from the tree (12 if u dont wanna spend an anoint in 10% skill speed), plus 20% more from onslaught (easy unique helmet). It feels pretty nice with that
even if you're only throwing perfect strike at heavy stunned enemies, half the uniques in the game have stun animations that move them approximately 500 feet across the screen, it's really obnoxious
My exact issue even in campaign. Makes range that much more advantageous in a vacuum
Ye, surprised no talking head mentioned this
Yes! Also perfect strike for me seems to randomly sometimes miss. Like I am holding the mouse on the target but my character does not turn 100% the right way and just attacks next to the enemy instead of on it.
Yeah this is just infuriating. We aren't even the best at stunning, in spite of the mechanic seemingly being designed with warrior 2h mace in mind... Yet you are actively punished by short stuns and 1/3 of the stun window being wasted. Absolute nonsense how anti-warrior this game is.
That said, still loving warrior (almost done A3 normal campaign). They are clunky, slow, squishy, but I can't help but enjoy it.
@@magikarp2063I've noticed this since A3 on normal mace swings too even if the enemies are right beside me. Perfect strike's hitbox is nonsense, randomly missing a windup attack feels awful. I've got more than enough accuracy to be 100%
You overlooked one of the biggest issues with mace skills: They all lock you in place.
Sparkmage can clear the screen while moving, but auto attacking with a mace forces you to stand still. If the enemy is kiting back even slightly, you miss.
One of the biggest issues is that this often forces you to need to cancel your attack to dodge roll in situation where even reduced movement would let you manually position around an enemy attack while still playing out your own attack.
This is it.
It's weird that you can't move while doing mace skills
EDIT: When I used quarterstaff skills they move and sort of leaps forward to mobs it's so insane it is like two groups of people made mace skills and quarter staff skills
Yeah this should probably be changed but you don't have to roll I hardly ever cancel into a roll you can cancel with block or boneshatter and act, it's faster. Maybe this is an issue with two hander only but haven't tried that yet.
Yeah locking in place is dogsh*t... else, if they have similar fluidity with Monster Hunter's Melee weapon. I believe tthe devs don't play melee at all. Imagine Switch Axe, Charged Blade, Greatsword, Dual Blades, S&S in PoE... and You play in Controller... it will be glorious.
I wouldn’t mind the locking in place IF we were playing a slower game. Which I would like. I don’t want poe2 to have atk speed creep and end up like poe1
Warrior's melee = "oh man, this is strong"
Monk's Melee = "wtf!, warrior sucks"
Exato
Monk is more magey tho than monk I want a fist monk Kung fu style
Exactly my experience lol I’m playing Marvel rivals til they hopefully fix it
If you play monk as (phys.) melee its the same garbage. The only reason monk is viable is because it freezes the whole screen so you do not get ragdolled all the time. Otherwise its the same garbage. Many pathing issues, permanent ragdolling around etc. GGG will never get melee viable in PoE2. They had >1ß years and did not get it fixed in poe1 either.
@@immatoll4375well, you know why? Because monk doesn't have much AOE and Physical damage nodes, and monk need to use all the buff and elements to deal mode damage - charged staff, flurry, palm and bell. And guess what, I tried use physical monk, it failed miserably, can't even kill normal mob easily.
Then, I use warrior and do physical monk, means I don't increase any attack speed in general, but just level up with all those AOE and Slam nodes, because physical monk skill are almost all locked animation speed, and I kill things way easily since I have high damage, 2 bells + whirling assault = delete boss faster than any class, and bell 1 gone bell 2 is coming, then bell 1, and my whilrling assault AOE range so big I can hit 2 bells and boss without effort.
And remember, NEVER EVER put any points on Stun and Dazz, put all in Physical, high Physical damage has higher chance to stun enemies than Stun rate with low physical damage.
And of course you better put armour break gem on whirling assault, if not it won't do much damage.
Another thing to mention is the HIDDEN reduced movement speed on full armour body/shield, like why did they do this again? Please remove these.
All armors and shields have it, but yeah, the more "heavier" (aka more armour focused) the gear is, the more you're penalized.
Its not a problem if your able to do real big dmg by hit but melee dmg in poe 2 are too low. In real life getting hit by and arrow or get hit by a mace full force. I pretty sure even with a full plate your brain explode from with in but arrow will ricochet on full plate. Mace should be at least twice the dmg of all ranged weapons.
Came to the comments to say this. I have no idea why that reduction is a thing, let alone why it's hidden from the player in the way that it is.
Wait, THAT'S what's causing it?! I'm over here losing my mind wondering why my movement speed wasn't adding up between my boots and character stats. That's so messed up
@@simonbrunet5605 It's kind of insane that the best warrior builds are all funneled into hammer of the gods (which you won't see until you are around cruel difficulty) or doing steelmage's warcry cheese stuff. Really telling that the entire class lacks damage. I started a new character with the pillar of the caged god unique and went for warbringer over titan 2nd time around so I could get the minus armor stuff cooking. I'm sure lategame titans are fun too, but my titan built up stun so much slower than my warbringer even with like 175%+ investment into stun buildup. My warbringer has nothing invested. My deadeye ranger would stun bosses in half the time just shitting out electric arrow spam with the boss at the opposite screen edge.
Melee with mace skills feel like GGG have gone over them with a fine comb to make sure nothing about them is good.
Going from my first character as a titan strength stacker with giantsblood, to a summoner and archer, it really felt like the classes had been designed by completely different companies.
Same to me, since launch i sticked with titan until lvl 92, then i switched to monk. Experience wise totally different game. I can't even compare how much feeling of gameplay is worse for mace skills. Devs just sticked to idea of mace being slow, which is logical. But there is literally no upside to this.
@@majdan07 at least we have the damge - random spark killing boss instanly in less than you swing sunder video appears - well...
Try minions. Buttery smooth and your minions block 90% damage
@@hangender You meant they block in doors and corridors, indeed buttery smooth
@@majdan07 Maces arent slow, they are just as fast as all other weapons, the problem is reigning them back in once you start swinging... the damage is also WAY more devastating compared to other weapons just from the sheer force and weight
I think a huge problem with POE2 is GGG's philosophy on what you should and should not be able to tank. Damage scales so rapidly and defenses, both the player and mobs scale terribly. If you want to be able to tank damage you should be able to do so, however every build is focused on hyper offense currently. I don't think that energy shield is overpowered at all, just all other defenses are incredibly underpowered. I really don't like that everything at endgame is a glass cannon that is either kill in 1 shot or be killed.
even if you build all type of def on your warrior, it doesn't make sense it takes 2 sec for Sunder to pop out.
A monk could just hit you 4 times in 1 sec, drop a bell, 20000 hits, stun the boss, drop another bell and KO the boss.
@@vuton7670 i mean thats what im doing with sunder, stun with rolling slam and 1 shot sunder.
@@slippers8000 I know I no longer one shot I can only do 1.5 mil a combo now, but could be I am behind on loot. No loot filter on console slows you down haha.
This problem is literally what they said they were designing PoE2 around solving... super disappointing tbh
@@vuton7670 Monk can have 2 bells on their skill line up, so they can just drop bell x2, and kill the boss. Especially since they're lightning (best element by far) or Cold (not lightning, but still has its perks with shattering frozen stuff) while warriors are pushed into fire (worst element by far).
Life is bad, armor is bad, mace is bad, move speed for armor is bad, animations for mace melee are bad.
Pretty much.
Want to enjoy your Warrior? Put down the mace and pick up a crossbow.
@@michaelwh8 Crossbow has maybe one good skill
The irony is PoE 2 was spawned from a goal of fixing Melee and it released even more broken then it was in poe 1 😂
But GGG cant make mistakes.
They are the best and infallible!
@@Karonar No one is saying this, also instead. point out what you want changed instead of pointless shit like this
True, i think melee should be sturdy and tank almost anything expect boss mechanic because they are slow. elemental damage one shot armor and there is not enough armor for t15map white mobs.
@@nomadraider lets start:
Mapping is boring af. Making the maps massive without movement skills, great idea.
Melee is bad af. But they fixed it! 🤣
Magicfind.
The gameplay loop is boring af. Just look at the top builds. Thats D4 Spiritborn gameplay right there, but even more boring because you move way slower.
The engine is still bad and old like POE1. When Microsoft pushes 24H2 we will have a lot of fun because the engine BSODs your system on loading screens. GGG seems unable to fix it, since it's also a bug in POE1 for 4+ months now.
GGG has to be less scared to fail...as for all apes shouting about broken economy which can be fixed with a server reset so for melee they should keep exploring and if its not good wipe and restart...and pls next time call the game beta and keep working hard as usual we will be alway here to wait for their magic😅
another thing about Heavy stun on bosses is how far away from you they fly when you do heavy stun them you lose alot of the window having to run over to them after the stun
Yeeah trying to fit your war cry, hammer of gods and perfect strike when u lose a second walking to the boss who flew their whole body length away.
Also the duration is pathetic. You have enough time to move back into melee range, warcry, maybe get 1-2 perfect strikes
Git gud, just literally roll after them when you hgeavy stun. It can surprise you once but if you fuk it up more times, thats literally a skill issue
@@laszloneumann500 Sounds like you either don't play warrior or don't realise how stupid that 'solution' is.
Short stun and you want to dodge roll for the first 1second+?? Good luck getting damage in, chief.
@@laszloneumann500 pull your head out ya ass mate, rolling after them still is time you are losing the problem is the fact the boss literally flys away from you forcing you to gap close with a skill set that is clumsy to use and has alot of wind up times involved.
Warrior being slowest, weakest and the least tankiest class is pure proof that GGG can't test internally for shit
Wrong, its mace as weapon.
Titan warrior is one of the strongest classes for a spellcaster, minion, bow or crossbow build...even as semi totem spellcaster, he works super fine.
the problem is melee, and mace only melee. If you switch to quarterstaff, even a warrior can shine.
@@aqvamarek5316 Sooo it's good for everything but its primary function. Amazing.
Monk is the King of Melee. Not that there is much competition, but still.
what is Warrior king of?
@@vuton7670 king of Dodge Roll
@@vuton7670 Total deaths
@@vuton7670 King of getting consistently stuck in tar somehow every single time he winds up one of his attacks.
@@vuton7670 king of totems, for now Chieftain/druid coming soon
WoW has done probably the best job of balancing melee and ranged. The main thing they do is make it so that ranged has to stop to cast, while melee can keep moving while casting their skills. This allows them to design different types of boss mechanics that can hurt both melee(ex: ground AoE around the boss that melee have to step out of ) and ranged(ex: rotating beams that force everyone to keep moving) separately. From there, it's just a matter of trying to design bosses that have a similar number of anti melee and anti ranged mechanics.
Unfortunately, PoE has seemingly done the opposite of this, and given ranged all the advantages; in PoE melee are the ones that must stand still to cast, while ranged can cast and move. Even if you make it so both melee and ranged can cast and move, ranged would still have the advantage due to AoE mechanics that force players out of melee range. With PoE 2's backwards melee/ranged mobility mechanics, the only real way I see to balance it is to design it in a way such that melee straight up just does more damage when it actually can stay connected to the boss. That or just make melee not really melee(like you say), where they just smash the ground in shoot out a shockwave that hits enemies at range or something like that.
Interesting insight, id honestly prefer animation/cast mehcanics on both melee and ranged.
Then just dont have a group of 2 white ranged crabs kill you.
Great point, FFXIV does something similar. Melee have complete mobility with instant-cast skills and play around combos and positioning around the boss (obviously doesn't work without a tank, but the combo thing could), physical ranged are also instant-cast with complete freedom of movement but lower dps potential, and casters have higher dps potential but have to stand still to perform casts. Really good balancing I would say
Lol ranged is still better in wow
they probably spent 20% of the game dev time to implement the move and cast/attack at the same time lol, they are never removing this from the game, too proud for that. POE2 is too similar to 1 and if you ask me, they can go back to the drawing board today - they did nothing to revolutionize the ARPG segment, it's all smoke and mirrors.
Melee can already do what you describe with earthquake and shield wall.
It's aoe melee, and can hit anything on the screen with the right passives.
Perfect Strike misses 75% of time even while bosses are stunned. Alot of the angles you attack from are scuffed. Not to mention Perfect Strike wont always attack the direction your cursor is
I feel like there is no point on using other skills over Sunder for dmg. Sunder can 100% crit when consuming a broken armor, and for some reason the crit multi starts at 200% on main hand and 400% on offhand. If you take the 4 crit damage nodes in the warrior tree along going to giant's blood, the crit multi jumps to 600% on the offhand. You don't get another skill with such scaling, especially if you use giant's blood and use 2x 2h maces to nuke bosses.
Even more broken seems to be "aftershock" on sunder, where sunder primarly can only hit once per wave, the aftershock proc that is basically 100% copy of the sunder can hit bosses multiple times, so you can usually oneshot bosses with just one sunder after stunning the boss and using seismic cry (if you don't invest into aftershock chance). Just needs to maximize AoE which is not an issue either while playing Titan, then the aftershock waves will overlap...
No other melee skills comes close on damage. Hammer of the gods sucks on damage if people understand sunder's crit and aftershock scaling. It's just bonkers... And best of all, you don't miss with it ever, unlike with other skills, that have "opportunity costs".
@@Kankipappaperfect strike ignites can hit for millions. It's the only other option. I think it's the better option for warbringer.
Yeah, that auto aim is terrible. Should be able to disable it. Every now and then I shoot my sunder in a terrible direction.
@@Kankipappa great info! My Warrior is 2x mace was wondering what skills to use.
Surprised Volatile Plants isn't specifically called out on this list at all, as a melee user the window between projectiles is soooo small for how much damage they do
Yup. Stupid "GOTCHA!" bombs GGG loves putting in places that are best dealt with by staying at range. Surprise surprise, melee needs to be close. The amount of particle clutter that can lead to dying to a volatile plant is too high.
my 2nd map after hitting end game was a boss map that had the Bog Witch + volite plants, I had little to no chances to damage let alone stagger her between her moves, getting back on the bike and blocked by her bones and the chaos orbs aweful.
Exactley! I say, these plants shoud be removed from the game. Every time i see them, i understand that rare mob is WAY TOO difficult for me and my play style with MONK. :( Lots of deaths just bcs of these plants, bcs i HAVE TO BE close AND HITTING the mob. :(
Get these plants out of the game or nerf them. But if nerfed, then hust get rid of them.
@@fivedudesYou need like 8 atlas points to get the node that gives bosses these modifiers
@jacensolo1987 nah there should be stuff that poses a threat and they're fine to be lethal if you don't respect them but if you do respect them the window should be big enough to deal with the mob
I'm also quite annoyed that skills with cooldown go on cooldown if you have to dodge out of the wind-up animation, which is quite often for warrior because of the so slow attacking.
Same with when you get stunned out of an empowered attack by shouts. Shout, perfect strike or hammer... stunned by tiny attack, then lose empower. feels so bad man.
Man, I was fucking PROMISED that melee would be AMAZING in this game.
The state of armor in particular makes me MAD.
I dont thing armor is the problem, is the lack of mechanics for the warrior itself. I wouldn need 19k armor if my attacks were instant and not 2,24sec cast.
It's almost as if GGG learned nothing from melee in PoE1
just play gemling with tempest flurry entire screen and boss melt faster then you can imagine
It was trolling from ggg😂
@@jamessunderlandseventh7410 It's not like PoE has any actual melee for them to learn from.
I don't think melee or warrior is the problem so much as it's the enemies. They made a new game slowed the player down (rightly so) and made top notch animations, then we hit end game and every monster is a spastic on meth attacking in massive swarms. The question isn't if they want to make a "Souls-like" or an ARPG but rather do they want an ARPG or a bullet hell shooter.
Because the game goes from ARGP in campaign to bullet hell shooter in end game.
That is insulting to bullet hells as those are actually designed well
I think a key moment was me on merc getting a combo skill and trying it out. The lightning one that u then detonate? By the time i did that, the damage was mediocre and I could have done 4x the damage in less time by spamming galvanic shot.
Yeah, it makes no sense to me that GGG made the campaign with this slower, more challenging and more interesting combat and then just put in the PoE 1 endgame mess where if you're not instantly screen-clearing then you're getting merc'd by ultrafast packs of kamikaze death-effect mobs.
POE 2 in campaign.
POE 1 in end game.
@@BlankerWitt1 if only, that issue starts already in second half of act 3, everything from that point is zoom zoom swarms that require screen wide clear playstyle
Barb/Warrior melee is one of only areas that D4 poops all over POE on.
Barb/Warrior melee in POE2 is the most unsatisfying version I have tried so far.
Warrior is not a Barbarian. Marauder is.
I don't think it's unsatisfying. When you armor break a boss, stun them, and then basically one-shot them with Sunder + Aftershocks, it's one of the most satisfying feelings ever.
The problem is more the lack of clearspeed for general content, the constant stuns, the need to setup a basic combo for 5sec and the missing tankiness.
For me, it's more about the fact that the warrior has too many frustration points, rather than the combos themselves being unsatisfying. One reason why warrior feels bad is that monk feels 1000% smoother to play in comparison.
@@TimoNausch100% this. Other classes get to smoothly transition from going fast to hitting hard. Titan and warbringer only get to shine when the stars align or they have 400% increased aoe. My warbringer didnt feel good until i gave up on melee all together for clear and now i just use a crossbow, warcrys, and totems for clearing. I only melee once every 3 maps to instakill a boss and it's so much better.
I have a dual wield 2h warrior in endgame. What's ironic is I end up using a ranged playstyle coz if I melee everything face to face, I get erased easy.
I saw duel wield fire balls throwing build warrior more and more recently.
Use 2h and shield. Block is very helpful defensive layer
Yes, I'm playing a full strength gemling.
I was using bone storm against most bosses until I saw a video about shield wall and now I mostly use earthquake/shield wall (which hits anything on the screen I don't actually have to be in melee)
do you know whats even more criminal ? the support gems for Herald of Ash compared to Herald of Thunder or Cold... its LITERALLY 2 DIFFERENT DESIGN TEAMS LIKE WTF, why can Thunder and Cold Heralds support so much and you can increase their dmg but Herald of Ash has to work TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY and only be supported by like 10 gems of which half are "coming soon" and of the other half 3 are playable... wtf is this shit
and lets not even get started with giants blood... 3 times... THREE TIMES THE ATTRIBUTE REQUIREMENTS, that shit should be 2.5 times AT MOST
Yeah, especially when co op, good luck try to deal overkill damage.
Fr. Hoa is a crippled version
I think the Giant's Blood restriction is fine. What isn't is that warriors feel compelled to take Giant's Blood. That means one handed maces are too weak in comparison. As GGG themselves say, if everyone feels they have to take X, there's a major balance issue at play. And, in this case, I don't think it is that Giant's Blood is too strong, but rather, that the standard 1h mace is too weak.
Giant's blood is easy to afford on gemling.
But it's unfortunate that the best mace and armour users aren't even the pure strength base class.
@@Axterix13 One handed maces being weak (due to minimum attack time) is one part of it. The other is that a shield just feels mandatory with how weak the other defensive options are on the warrior's side of the tree (lol armor). People aren't even taking Giant's Blood for the fantasy of wielding two giant hammers, it's just so they can go sword and board.
Also it seems that you miss a lot of attacks even with 100% estimated accuracy. Even though you are supposed to have no penalties within 2m. And this isn't even against enemies with evasion, it's nearly all enemies. I've had situations where I miss around 20-25% of my attacks. It's frustrating when you pair it with the long attack times and even more so when you get knocked around in the middle of your attacks too.
I think accuracy is bugged, i had 94% at some point and started missing a lot, i felt like 1 in 3 attacks were just missing, got back to 100% and it was alright.
@ ‘supposedly’ the accuracy shown in the attacks is not accounting for enemy evasion, which we have no way of knowing how much, if any, they have, which unless the have the evasion tag I feel they shouldn’t have any evasion at all, but anyways..it seems like the enemy can still ‘dodge’ our attacks regardless of our accuracy unless you have that one node where you can’t crit but enemies can’t evade you anymore. Which should NOT be mandatory to feel ‘normal’.
I had an awful experience with this in act 3 normal yesterday. I had 94% accuracy and was missing 2-3 attacks on every mob in aggorat and doriyanis map. I got lucky crafting a good accuracy ring but had to sacrifice a lot of resistances for it. WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME TO EQUIP ACCCURACY RINGS OR INCREASE DEX ON A MELEE TANK CHARACTER😭😭
@ yeah I noticed that too, soon as I got to Aggorat enemies seemed way harder for no reason.
Armour and life are a big problem for Warrior survivability right now but I'd add that sometimes monsters just make you feel helpless. I'll start a breach and get surrounded but since my skills take so long to use I can get stunned or staggered out of the animations and die because I can't attack. Carn's quote of "I have to consult with my lawyer before I attack and then he gets back to me 7 business days later" resonated with me so much. The staggered out of animation doesn't even take much. Like 4 monsters hitting me mid stampede can be enough. And the rag dolling feels fucking awful, I've done the slam of Stampede and just got sent like 10 feet away from the monsters from a rag doll or deflection. I'm constantly worried now they'll nerf Hammer of the Gods and I'll have zero enjoyment out of warrior and have to build something new.
I'm honestly confused why they even want ragdolling to be a thing, it honestly only detracts from the game and adds absolutely nothing but suffering. It's unavoidable, unlike the water blobs from the river hags, which for some odd reason some people are having a hard time with and die to it, but yeah, ragdolling has no good reason to be in a game genre like ARPGs, where you're supposed to have full control over your character at basically all times.
I'd love to ask Jonathan why he thinks ragdolling belongs in PoE2, his answer being probably something like "I just love seeing people dying to bullshit"
it should be like that, but WHEN YOU SLAM it should BE A SLAM, not 3 quick staff attcks
@@banishedbr I disagree. My 640 strength titan shouldn't get staggered by a group of enemies like that. If I got slammed by a boss a stun makes sense, but 4 normal mobs shouldn't be a big deal.
This is so infuriating. I'm a warrior with 650 STR holding a thick and large shield but when I'm surrounded by even the smallest monsters I freeze and die...
Try stampede nope stunned.
Try leaping out... Nope I was stunned and sat on my ass.
A warcry to give me some space... Nope they're back on you before your warcry animation ends
@@Robotlien Some pushiness is good to have in limited degree. So creatures feel like actual entities in the world. But there should be mechanics for melee and strength based chars to resist anything significant (or remove it in general, the serious pushing you around).
Like those delirium mobs, which are also pretty small. Spawn out of nowhere, sprint tackle you to the other end of the map.
The water blobs are funny lol I have never died to them, I even wondered what actually happens when I encountered them during the campaign. They are easy to avoid even on my slow ass mace melee char...
Getting smacked around is the most annoying part of melee its so frustrating. Great video, good points!
missing with melee with 100% accuracy feels horrible. Being forced to take the keystone for never missing but never getting critical hits isn't good design. missing a perfectly timed and aimed perfect strike is shit, accuracy and random chance to miss in an action rpg is an old school game mechanic that hasn't ever felt good in a non turn based system.
Also do you find that even with that notable you still sometimes miss? It might just be me but I feel like a lot of melee just misses no matter what at times, like it's a strange hitbox issue?
Also about perfect strike, even if you are not radgolled 10 feet way from the monster, 1/4 times the hitbox of the monster is so fkin bad, you land it on the monster, and that not proc, you don't hit the monster, even if you are sniffing his ass and well positionned
Before launch GGG said this game would be slow paced and melee would be king. In reality the monsters are running faster than the speed of light and melee have 0 defences and no damage. This game is not even close to be complete. They shouldnt have launched the early access at all in this state.
true
If they look at the well reasoned feedback, and act appropriately, it's a good thing. Remains to be seen though. Until I see different, I expect it to turn into full on PoE 1 speed meta.
When it comes to melee, I wonder if any of the devs ever played theirselves before the release.
It seems to me melee skills should be instant cast, and spells should have the windup, considering the relative safety of spellcasting.
That'd be my preference. Would also require removing those ludicrously fast mobs too - they don't belong in the game!
@RickCarleton Maybe a few fast mobs but not the whole bestiary lol
@@WhatsTheTakeaway nah nah, just those ones that speed out of fucking nowhere where and if you haven't already thrown damage they stick to you no matter your movement speed or dodgerolling
This is how dark souls balances melee vs magic. At least one of the things they use to balance them
finnaly someone talks about the clunkyness of mace! doing your stampede, got body blocked and suddenly it runs backwards, its just feels sad..
or it can roll you directly into aoe damage in the ground or a bomb exploding in that moment xD is funny
Rat casts block, sry mister huge muscle man warrior.
Honestly, the Mace skills are so bad, I feel like they should have left Warrior out of EA at the start. They definitely need a rework. Hopefully Axe and Sword skills are much better, when we get them.
What exactly does GGG think the benefit of Mace skills is? Stun? Needs more work if that is the case. It's not damage. You can get more damage from bow skills and spells, for sure. It's not a big, beefy, stun-proof character. ES and/or Evasion characters are tankier and less likely to get stunned. I'm at a loss as to why someone would actually choose to use Mace skills, other than "I like to hit things with a big stick".
The reason is, I didn't know how bad it is before the release and it's what I went with. (and haven't given up yet, +time investment to do new char...)
It feels like there is two different games. You have the new style which includes slower pace, warrior HP/Armour and acts 1-3, second is basically POE1 ES/mana/Archmage 5secs boss fights. I hope they lean into the new style. If they buff HP/Armour instead of nerfing ES, we basically have POE1 with Dodge Roll, WASD and Active Block.
Yeah... sadly I am leaning into direction that it will go even more towards PoE 1. But we will see.
i quote jonathan from ggg: "Melee is going to be VERY strong"
He has been saying that for years in poe, has some inate hatred towards melee.
He meant it literally. I mean, you need a lot of strength for that 3x requirement on Giant's Blood ;)
@@selenang2006it's really hard to deny with all the obvious limitations they impose upon it
The core underlining problem with melee is that melee needs to put in 10x the effort for 10% of the results. You can talk about x y or z being fine but that's because you put in such disproportionate effort. I can say I have no problems with performance but i have a ultimate PC does that mean that performance in POE is fine?
"10x the effort for 10% of the results" is a great way to explain Warrior gameplay. It can be fun, but at the same time exhausting when each engagement requires so much work. There are so many mob types and modifiers that are difficult to deal with on Warrior. I hardly have to care about anything on my Ranger.
I generally disagree, its less that it takes more effort is that its more unsafe in many more situations.
If an armor warr was twice as tanky as a wizard in robes (which we could probably agree makes thematical sense) then warr would be completely fine.
Instead you are half as tanky aswell as the added "cast" time of your skills.
Yeah poe has a lot coding problems, had the same issues with poe1 4 years ago than with this game in the same pc xD they copy pasted a lot of the motor and code of the game. I can feel it cause it does the same bottleneck to my cpu xD and people is laggin the server with their build lol, thats just bad coding. You dont let code game change server latency lol wtf
I think the main problem is warrior need to trade offence to defence most of the time in order to stay alive, and with high defence he deal peanut damage, with low defence he can die from peanuts mobs attack.
yep, not sure how anyone can argue with this especially when watching ziz playing spark during his interview vids. Zero effort screen clearing, energy shield and hp not even moving.
My biggest problem is that they said multiple times that "melee is really good now"
The only good thing about it is perfect strike and Hammer of the gods having insane dmg multipliers.
Which are both incredibly lame skills mechanically
My only issue to add, when you stun an enemy it feels good and impactful, but many enemies getting physically moved farther away than my currently winding up attack feels terrible. So you typically roll out of your new attack to reposition just to get there in time for the stun to be ending. It also causes situations where I stun enemies thinking they are dead just for them to come racing behind me. I feel they want stun to give you space by pushing enemies back, but it feels terrible when I just want to finish killing something. It will probably remain annoying even when we get sword and axe attacks.
Any build where you have to stand near mobs, you have an issue. You get swamped, blocked/stunned, not able to dodge and you die. Boss fights are worse.
98.4% of all monsters having some form of homing projectiles, aoe auras or ground effects that damage you in melee range is another problem that should be brought up, especially since all melee skills lock you in place, and dodge rolling away results in no damage and the skill going on cooldown.
I would love it if they just come out and nerf auto attack to force you to use other skills KEKW that would be a certified GGG moment. Also the biggest problem with the melee is that "+X seconds total attack time" values does not scale with attack speed. Even you have tons of attack speed your sunder will still take 2+ seconds to go out.
03:00 EXACTLY what was happening to me yesterday, I was surprised the neighbors didn't knock on my door asking me who I was yelling at.
Probably not gonna happen with the way Early Access has been marketed thus far, but Mace skills zero trade was an amazing campaign experience. But after finishing Act 3 Cruel and reaching about level 67-70, the game just kind of falls apart. There are foundational mechanics and design choices that should probably just not be a part of PoE2, at least at this time.
(1) Movement speed bonuses should be removed from affixes. The hidden -10% to movement speed from armor chests should also be removed or negated once you meet some other benchmark such as 1.5x attribute requirement (it should also be visible). Small 5-10% movement speed bonuses could probably be on Ascendancy points for certain classes. Having player characters move at an expected speed helps a lot with mob and boss balance. Attack speed should likewise be gated to the passive tree or perhaps the occasional unique item.
(2) Trade should not be a part of EA at all and probably not a part of PoE2 based on the campaign design (the most finished component of the game). Trade cheats the experience for the player and discourages anyone at GGG from designing engaging bosses. This is especially true at the top end of content. If I don't know how to kill a boss, my best option is to trade the access to it for guaranteed return. If I do know how to kill a boss, but cannot reliably do so on my build, I should sell the fragments. If my build can trivialize the boss then I should buy fragments and kill the boss in less than ten seconds for profit. So you see almost no one is actually playing the boss you spent hundreds of hours designing and creating assets for; why keep doing it? If I am a player and I want to take on harder content such as a boss I haven't defeated, in trade league, my best option is to grind currency (not gear) until I can purchase what I need to trivialize that content; probably by selling boss access fragments. This is a just a job with extra steps. Without trade I would have to uuhhh... play the game.
(3) Other skills should be brought in line with Maces. Probably the most simple combo every mace-user has right now is Stun Buildup Skill + BoneShatter, but this isn't useful for bossing which necessitates at least 3 skills. This is probably the simplest Warrior build, but Totems and Warcries remain useful. Monk is in a similar state. Every other weapon/skill class has degenerated into 1 or 2 button mob deleters. A lot of this is due to the movement speed arms race caused by (1).
(4) Accuracy makes no sense in current design. It has common systems based RPG problem of: I swung my sword at the monster, the render on screen agrees I hit the monster, but the dice rolling machine backstage says I didn't, so I don't. However if I play a ranger I gain accuracy as I level and never have to care about it. If I play a spellcaster then the game simply agrees that where I sent the fireball is where it hit without further checks. Why is melee the only one doing accuracy dice rolls that matter? If I have no accuracy and I shoot an arrow or sling a fireball, there should be no guarantee that it ends up where I intended. Have it drift by a few degrees and this drift is greater the more inaccurate I am. This turns accuracy into a defensive affix that allows me to stand further from my targets. This also lends itself well to minions being a playstyle that makes sense. 'I want to sling spells but don't want to worry about accuracy.'
There will be nothing to distinguish between PoE1 or PoE2 within ~3 years of full launch if (1) speed and (2) money are not addressed. You will have simply wasted a lot of time and (real) money hyping up what will eventually degenerate into PoE1 with new paint anyways (and is already doing).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts in detail. I really support a lot of them and haven't really thought about some others (accuracy). Thanks
Agree wholeheartedly with point (4). Accuracy as a stat really only belongs to board games and turn based games as a way to simulate your character not hitting perfectly all the time. In ARPGs you, the player, are the one aiming your attack yourself, so it feels bad for the game to say "nope, your damage is zero now because you rolled a nat 1" even if you can successfully pass the player skill check.
To add insult to injury, monster slams in PoE2 don't need accuracy (i.e. can't be avoided) by default. To avoid it, you need to physically move out of the attack radius. But when it comes to player slam attacks, all of a sudden you need accuracy.
Their old reasoning of "attack builds need to deal with accuracy, spell builds need to deal with mana" doesn't apply in PoE2 either because attack builds somehow still need to deal with mana as well as accuracy.
It's so funny how the vision goes against almost every single poe1 mechanic they cv pasted into it
Accuracy rating is also an issue. Even at 100% chance to hit within 2M you still miss often. They should just remove the stat and give everything a 100% chance to hit unless the mob has the evasive modifier.
I actually wonder does Slam have miss chance, I mean it's AOE.
I agree with you, but currently there's an ability called "Resolute Technique" in the passive tree near warrior start that makes it so you always hit but you forgoe critical hits entirely.
After getting the ability the game has become much easier as warrior as you don't have to deal with accuracy stat and evasive enemies mean nothing to you. If you were using Sunder, you can replace it with "Hammer of the Gods" for a similar effect.
Accuracy does not make sence in melee skills, in ranged skills i understand
accuracy on AOE attacks makes 0 sense. or if we want to keep accuracy spells should have some limiting factor, because as it seems the only one is mana, which is kinda fake since they already invest into mana via int and other nodes. looks as relevant as accuracy on monk
1., Resolute technique
2. Theres a node giving you accuracy for STR stacking towards merc side of skilltree
If u cant solve accuracy, thats a skill issue
The idea behind mele is cool, but the way mobs act at higher level, as you said, high on crack, just doesn't work. You can't have a +1 sec wind up attack while getting zerg-rushed from all directions
This game is only 'dark souls-like' if you're playing warrior. I've to constantly evade, wait patiently for a window and know when to hit and counter attack. Every other class has been a breeze. I still think Warrior has been a fun class to play, but its just not competitive or efficient.
i agree, first day was amazing. got into end game as a warrior, I quit once I got into maps.
played a monk and was like "THIS is melee".
Endgame is not DS like, there are swarms of enemies on meth that will rush you down in one second. Compain is so much better designed.
It's not fun in late game. It's just frustrating 95% of the time. Because everything is designed to crap on it hard.
Been playing Warrior Titan since release, and it is complete misery in endgame.
I have invested +30 divine orbs into my setup which gives me 12k armor, 4.2k life, 75% block and obviously capped resistances. I still cannot do T15 maps consistently if I want to engage with any league mechanics (which is where all the currency/rare monsters are).
The number one thing to increase the fun on melee is just to make it tanky again. We can handle killing stuff slower than everyone else, but dying more than any other class on top of that is just exhausting.
One avenue to make you tanky is EHP, which can come from fixing the way armor is calculated and giving the biggest armor base + to max res as implicit and have access to more max res on the tree. Flat phys reduction mods or max res mods on more pieces of armor gear would also help a ton.
Another avenue to make you tanky is to give you faster movement. This means removing less attack speed nodes from the passive tree and having skills speed scale from weapon speed better (and not from movement speed like with Stampede). This means removing the heavy movement penalty from armor gear.
The last avenue to make you more tanky is movement restriction. This comes in the form, as you mentioned, of being ragdolled, and "gravity" from strength is a great solution. It also comes from movement restricting mods like slow and freeze, and the solution to these is to have charm slot 2 and 3 be unlocked through campaign quests or endgame content and reworking charms to be actual solution to problems (fixing not working on dot effects or there being no counter to curses).
100% this, it's not even fun once you play a monk build
Switch to "totems", and use your dual wild 2-h to get +7 to skills per hand. you loose block, but with all 3 totems nodes, you kill off screen.
You can push totems skills this way to maximum 40 level (with amu and gloves) and they hit hard.
And of course, aim the 50% of life == Energy shild level 1 body armor. Like all build, energy shild wins.
Not to knock your suggestion, but the solution to "melee and armor sucks" is not to just play something else :)
I want to bonk and the game won't let me :)
I don't think any defensive measure even ES alone is effective enough to survive in hard maps. They, for some reason, didn't want anyone to be too tanky. The moment I'm in a crowded event like breach or even ritual sometimes, the moment I'm surrounded I'm dead. Other classes mostly survive it because they kill really fast.
If you want to be a tanky warrior you need to get the svalinn shield on a warbringer with cloak of flame and as many +max fire res cores as you can muster. It's better than 30k armor and costs one ex.
The fix for melee is super easy, the devs are just too stubborn. Ranged has a natural advantage of being ranged, that should be goal of a ranged character, playing around your distance to deal as much damage as possible from a perfectly safe distance, and that's okay, that should include lower access to aoes unless there is a cost involved, that should include increased wind ups and casting animations, and so on... currently the game is the EXACT opposite, a warrior currently is worse at every single aspect of the game, for no reason, no reason. Warrior IS playable, warrior is NOT clunky as many people say (ignoring the fact you get pushed around), the problem of warrior is the lack of game balance around numbers and how other spells work. As some people like to say "warrior is the only one playing PoE 2".
My suggestion for a class like warrior is pretty simple: make them POWERFUL. You shouldn't be afraid to take damage, you shouldn't be afraid of a lot of things, it's that simple, even if it costs making the game on the easy side for a tanky build, it doesn't matter, if the player has chosen to spec into a warrior/tanky archetype you SHOULD be a god around monsters, period. A ranger/mage get to move so fast and delete screens so fast that trivializes any other incentives, and warrior just tries to compete for the same niche and it upsets people, you should have a massive variation in performance, a ranger should be safe, a ranger should have a good single target dps, but a warrior shouldn't be afraid of monsters, a warrior should be one stunning bosses constantly (currently he's not even that better compared to others, why?!)... you should add massive distinction among archetypes and weapons and how stats work to support those choices, instead this is feeling a lot like PoE 1 and if that's to be case we'll just care about clearing screen as fast as possible and the "meta" will always be surronding this samey way of playing, if you could ACTUALLY build your character and choose someone who is more reliable defensily, who is more aggressive and tanky, someone who can clear small group of large monsters easier, that should be warrior, whereas ranger should kite everything, be safe, kill at a distance, mages should crowd control, have access to powerful nukes, and play around casting times for powerful effects... the game is completely upside down, mages are cocaine addicts and warriors are turtle slow.
Beyond the Armor buff, I have to wonder if they're going to change much on Warrior at all if he's merely "okay" overall. Alkaizer predicted that all the other classes are much more likely to get nerfed to Warriors level than vice versa.
Honestly I wouldn't hate this; I don't want another poe1
If GGG decide to nerf all the ES node in skill tree by half then every class should feel the pain of being a warrior
@@brofstI would, everyone says they don’t want it to be Poe 1 yet everyone is trying to make their builds Poe 1 builds.
I think this is just cope and nerfing everything to war levels will make a significant portion of the player base leave
Remember the devs “intended” for use to play with multiple skills combining into one another, the only class that is doing that right now is monk, all others are using 1-3 active skills and the rest passive buffs.
People unironically don’t understand what they want from the game based on the gap in what people say they want vs how they play the game
@@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274 Plus, nerfing all the classes to warriors level without making the necessary systemic changes would honestly be a bit outrageous and illogical. Monsters move at POE 1 speeds while doing more damage and with a fraction of the defensive options of poe 1. I think the GGG devs are competent enough to realize that nerfing everything is not balance
@@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274 Warrior uses combos too. So thats not really an excuse. Monk is 1000% going to get nerfed.
Trial of Sekhemas is horrific on melee as well, the honour mechanic seems designed to tell tanky and melee builds to not even try unless you severely overlevel it or change your entire build. And with the gating of ascendancy behind it and the rarity of the coins and losing them on death, just a total kick in the jewels. It's also glaring when I watch a ranged player do the same content, and how they just run and spam one button and everything dies for an entire screen meanwhile as a warrior you're constantly dodging, using combos, and setting up cooldowns to do worse. It's like you're playing on hard mode.
There is a notable between Warrior and Mercenary that gives 3 Stun Threshold per 1 Strength, and there's also a notable near warrior that gives a % of armor on gear to Stun Threshold. But I do agree that it'd be really nice if stun threshold reduced how much monsters can displace you and how much you can displace them.
Yes, however the warrior has so many different things to invest in, one does not simply get everything that they need.
The 'upsides must have downsides' mentality never appealed to me and is completely dumb in my book. Pulling that off with something as significant to melee gameplay as attack speed is absolutely not thought out well.
I think a very important thing that no one is talking about is that mace is the only weapon which doesn’t get an improved auto attack. Maybe the maces you get later have their own better auto attack but having the same bonk from the beggining of the game while ppl are shooting lighting, poison and monk is blasting away with combo basic attacks.. just feelsbad
ridiculous lel
The basic bonk would be a lot better if it setup payoff skills more often.
I agree with the points made in the video. Some thoughts on tweaks:
-Make armor work on all projectiles, including spells (plate would certainly take the sting off a fireball or ice shard irl).
-Allow for movement, albeit reduced, during long wind-ups.
-Reduce mana with a purpose, such as, lowering trash clearing ability's mana cost, but keeping abilities in boss/sustain fights still pricey enough such that the efficiency mechanic is still a factor.
-Give all characters base evasion (and adjust evasion stacking builds accordingly) such that armor will take away from it a little, but not entirely (e.g. you have a default 20% evasion and with max heavy armor you've lost 8%, but you still have 12% evasion)...or toss in a passive or two up front that gives extra evasion based on armor over a certain threshold.
Thanks for the vid, feedback is crucial for a game's success!
Warrior and Maces should be 30% faster with hits and animations.
Warrior skills are sooooo slooooow that before you hit you are already dead because 20 monsters rushed at you already.
Armor should not have negative scaling with bigger hits. If armor is giving you a 30% reduction then so be it no matter how hard the hit was.
Mana cost is another issue with Warrior and Monk because these classes don't stack intelligence which means a big mana pool.
there's this weird design missmatch where your single target as warrior requires you to stand still but also your defensive options are really, really bad vs single target enemies. Like, if you invest a lot into armor+block+hp it can feel good mapping even on 17-18 tier maps... but single target is kinda just painful rn.
I mean, the block is doing the heavy lifting there. So basically everyone should use a shield.
As a new PoE player, I've never felt something worse than trying to play mace skills. By far the worst in any arpg.
Stampede needs to go through units. It is BEYOND DUMB that you go around mobs like you are afraid to hurt them.
Mana should be for spells or special type abilities like warcry's, etc. IMO accuracy should be for ranged attacks only. Remove the movement speed penalty for armour. Throw out the amour formula and have it act just like elemental resistances. If they are concerned about being too tanky for bosses with armour, give them overwhelm like elemental pen. This game is extremely punishing for being at close range... give melee a break for goodness sakes.
I don't think armour working like resistances can scale in a comparable way with evasion and energy shield.
Each stat has its own defence that should be relatively equal for scaling (es is currently stronger than the others)
I agree with the big problem in going for a slower playstyle for poe2 and long combos, it feels like we are trying to play that way but GGG put poe1 monsters into poe2. And we are seeing the players adjusting to this problem by finding ways to make builds that play more like poe1 builds, one click screen wipes. Melee needs adjusting but so do some of the enemies.
the way warrior is right now has no place in a game that poe2 is currently, it feels like they were trying to make the game with a much slower pace than poe1 and then realised too late that its boring or something, the maps are literally the same insane fuckfest filled with crazy modifiers just like poe1 and the warrior class cant handle it
yep is another char for another game not for the meta in this game.
Warrior can handle it... just take any skill that has 400% attack damage at lvl 17, give it cold infusion and freeze buildup and take herald of ice, now get the ring that shatters chilled enemies, yes i know thats the Ice Strike Monk build but i want to clear breaches (the only good farm in endgame) while also clearing screen because they removed the armorbreakexplosion chaining like it is currently happening on Ice Strike Monk xD
@felixmustermann790 so play every single warrior the same way? Please, this may be one aspect to fixing some issues, but this type of fix is not for everyone. Variety and utility need to be the focus vs defaulting to the other thing that works.
They started endgame in 2024. It was a rushed job, and undercooked.
This next month will be very telling on whether the vision will remain, or if they will throw in the towel on the souls arpg.
Honestly does feel like it was made for a different game. Or that devs teams for each class never shared notes during development.
I enjoyed all 6 acts with warrior i loved making it a souls game. Ill probably only ever play melee builds , sadly endgame really just requires a "click and everything dies" build which im really not dying about.. armour is something they need to fix asap
It’s utter bs how bad they have made mace skills. I started Titan and was stubborn about it for the first week. The Ranger, Witch and Merc I’ve played since have all felt like easy mode in comparison.
It was so bad I turned my Titan into a minion build running ES.
My titan is a fire mage, but I did this intentionally from the start to see if I can find broken things with 50% better passives on magic things.
Gemling does ok in mace skills because of strength stacking, and can use bone shards for backup ranged attack.
It's sad that the best mace user isn't the pure strength class
As someone who almost quit the game over Melee (Got severely depressed for about a week) before switching to totems I think the entire problem is a design problem. Playing with Melee and Mace skills specifically they all have large delays or wind ups it's over choreographed and designed more like your playing a boss but without the damage If you imagine attack lines you can easily see what i mean, Boss attacks have a huge wind up give some sort of indicate where the attacks going to do damage to give you time to move before the attack, Mace skills are all designed in the same way and it just feels terrible.
Bosses have faster attack animations than basically every mace skill.
Maybe it would be fine if you had the health of the boss and the damage, not just the wind up lol
Got severely depressed? You absolutely need help.
I made it to mid act II on cruel mode and I just can’t go on any further.
@@Ugoofy1 Yeah I pass whole cruel bosses with just autoattack and roll. sad as fu...
perfect strike definately has targeting issues. my warrior was setup with exploding bolts and perfect strike where i converted all fire damage into cold so i could freeze enemies, my experience is that once the enemy is frozen it no longer highlights them and auto targets at them so you were very likely to completely whiff the hit on a the target even though you were standing next to them and they were frozen
Im okay with stampeede going weird, but i dropped my 90 lvl titan cuz it cant live boss autoattack with 10 div gear, so im perma dark souls 1 hp no hit run mode.
I finally got my Titan to feel playable at lvl 91 and what I did was I made a Deadeye.
xdddd
> auto attack is your best single target
I feel this a lot, I basically used auto attack for single target through the entirety of the campaign. Why does it have the fastest base attack speed on warrior, have a comparatively insane atk dmg ratio and automatically get lesser + greater jeweler orbs applied to it? (he needs it though, his other skills suck in comparison)
I really wish Melee skills came with an innate bonus Fortification after striking an enemy.
Melee skills should NEVER lock you in to place. If anything, melee skills should be the most flexible with movement, with ranger attack benefiting from distance with the caveat of having slow to activate skills.
Look they have only had 13 years to make melee good. Give them some time. I'm sure it will be fine.
I mean they said they needed to make an entire new game to make melee better. Look how that turned out.
Poe 3 will fix it
They need to take a look at how Destroyer plays in lost ark. Slow/charge up skills, big damage, nothing "gets in your way", high defense, lots of super armor built into skills (no getting pushed around/CC'd.)
There's a 25% built-in miss for all melee attacks. No matter how much accuracy you have.
Does Slam still has miss chance??
Mace skills are objectively unplayable with the current game. Its like they were tested only in campaign
Agree. I firmly believe the dev's haven't played a melee character in their own game.
If they're going to force you to be slow with mace warrior via no sources of atkspeed and locked minimum animation times, they need to give some damage reduction and stun threshold buff/immunity during that unremovable windup
🤣Getting body-blocked and pushed around by rolling beetles while you have Titan's blood and hulking forms.
They also need to reconsider the added flat attack times that are not scalable by any means on some of the skills. Consider how a Stormweaver could fire 40+ projectiles each second, and a single projectile could deal more damage than a sunder that takes 3 seconds to channel.
Yeah, pretty ridiculous.
A big issue with melee for me is that you can't move while doing your attacks (perfect strike is the worst offender for this). I think you should be able to run and do all your melee attacks at the same time, makes sense thematically as well.
They need to add their own version of Dark Souls hyper armor. Maybe each skill has its own multiplier to DR/Armor/Stun Threshold on use.
Absolutely, charge attacks should have extreme hyperarmor and some damage reduction to compensate that you have to stand still, and also to play up the tank power fantasy
so the way you fix stun threshold is support gem called "Unbreakable". it gives 200% stun threshold when using the skill. you stop getting stunned. i think bigger the problem is that damage isn't high enough for DPS oriented melee and as a result, aliment application is based off total damage so it is difficult to apply aliments to the boss such as "Stun" and "Daze". Melee in this game seems design around doing burst damage in short time window ->stunning the boss->more damage // boss goes invul to stun for like 10 seconds, rince & repeat.
This logic also applies to freeze and eletrocute.
The thing I hate about the passive tree is when you get something good they take away a key part of your build like attack speed etc.
I've actually had stampede ricochet me right back into a Sanctum trap and almost kill me when I was low level, lol.
Perfect strike is also very easy to interrupt and forces you to stand still so long that it can be very dangerous to use in some situations.
I think regardless of whether other skills are too strong, a lot of warrior skills just feel bad to use in the endgame. It's just not damage numbers that are the issue.
Yeah. it's still early. However, it's interesting that it is melee that is the one with serious issues. Not magic, not ranged, not minions, just melee. And yeah, monk is not melee.
They talked a big game about how melee is good though. And how the game isn't like PoE 1 in terms of speed, visual clarity and nuking entire screens of monsters. When it is in fact, clear speed meta and designed around it. With the mob density, especially in some content, and their speed. (not really a problem for most besides melee)
Well, I was expecting it, since on the big stream they were suddenly pandering to the PoE 1 "I wanna be light speed and nuke screens with 1 button" crowd. And posting teasers of skills that had full screen AoE with horrible visibility, like cluster grenade.
If heavy armor is going to slow me down, it should make it harder for a mob to move me.
Warrior definitely needs to be looked at and inspected.... I looked forward to playing a Melee class for the first time and INSTA Nope'd from that and Rolled my comfortable Minion build... Melee needs help... GGG it's a problem...
Ice strike Invoker - great build, 100% melee.
Mace skills? All suck donkey balls. Don't know if I can ever force myself to play with them again.
Frankly, I think Mace skills need one thing to work with their huge fixed execution time: Hyper Armor. Put 90-95% all damage reduction (and stun/status buildup) along with stagger/stun immunity on all those 'fixed additional time to execute' skills and you turn something that makes them useless into a high skill tanking technique. Oh boss is going to do it's big slam? Free damage opening for Mace user. Wall of projectiles? Leap slam through with the Hyper Armor up so it doesn't matter. That kind of thing would give Mace a distinct role in letting players essentially 'parry' attacks that way and justify the execution speed limiters. Heck, some people might actually avoid increased attack/skill speed for more armor frames.
Why are mace skills so shit? Who made this? Who thinks being locked into an animation for 300 years is fun? Hello?
GGG hates melee.
Even with the gap close that we have now, melee just doesn't feel like it flows well for warrior/mace. You gotta dodge roll out of attacks like you're playing Monster Hunter or something. And the dodge roll slows you down, or get you stuck on mobs or other obstructions, then you get hit more. Every skill seems to have huge wind ups and exit animations and it just feels meh
Welcome to the 7th circle of hell, exile!
My biggest problem with melee is that you have to be close to enemies, end kill everything in 1hit and run away from the corpses or you are dead, even if you wont die to melee mobs you die to ranged mobs because while surrounded, stuck in animation everything ranged blasts you for free uncontested. This also applys to monk, but less.
Bring back the OG sunder.
I actually like the big wind ups for mace attacks and assume things like swords, daggers and even axes will be quicker, but I think to balance that the mace skills need quite a damage bump across the board. This would also require armour to get a bit of a buff so that you can tank the hits a bit more while winding up as well. I do like the idea of a class of weapons and skills being that big wind up, big damage though so I hope they do balance it that way as well.
It really feels like shit when physical damage is gated behind accuracy while magical damage is not.
Hammer of the Gods (A "KINETIC IMPACT") should not have an accuracy rating. It's too long of a fucking cooldown, it's super fucking hard to land on bosses that dash around 40 fucking times AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT BULLSHIT, YOU STILL NEED TO WIN THE ACCURACY CHECK FOR A FUCKING KINETIC IMPACT?!?!?!?!?!?!
HoG cant be evaded, so not sure what you talking about.
and the funny they dont even have to tarjet half of the time just click randomly in the screen and the spell does insane aoe damage 1 click.
they always state that poe 2 was mainly made because melee needs to be fixed. Now we got this diabolical melee gameplay on warrior/mace specifically. started warrior back on 6 and it was one of the worst game time I experienced.
Playing a melee character is great if you aren't in melee, lol
Nah man u just gotta git gut, no joke
6:18 the ragdoll issue is particularly bad when playing co-op because it seems like other players are treated as 'large monsters' in that they can push you around. The hitboxes get stuck on each other because the momentum of each player is trying to push the other a different way and if I happen to be in the way of my buddies monk combo I am just along for the ride at that point.
The current viable warrior builds:
storm wave/ice strike monk
hammer of the gods chronomancer
shout warbringer to keep the mobs away from you
energy shield nightrobe Kripp copewarrior
Bruh what? Sure hammer is a "warrior skill", but what does the monk builds got to do with warrior?
Perfect Strike / Stampede. There are probably other builds out there
@@Alejandro-xk5ej the joke went over your head
but to add to the viable warrior build list: 100 Minions infernalist
Warrior can run Herald of Ice funnily enough, just support stampede with Cold Infusion, Glaciation and Cold Penetration, the unique ring and during breaches the screen will explode just like for monks
Warrior even had their own Ice Strike Monk fun, Armorbreakexplosions used to behave like Herald of Ice with infinite chaining, but it got nerfed because its "unintentional", so Ice Strike Monk will be nerfed
I did warrior with quarterstaff physical damage, 2 bells + 1 whirling assault = mobs and boss killer
wouldn't mind some kind of dark souls hyper armour system or something for when you're winding up big attacks, and maybe some baseline splash/overkill stuff to help w impact
If i dont see atleast a 5 page balance/content added manifesto in the next week ima be really disappointed
There are a lot ani-meele things.
For instance - mob's aura. Meele NEED to go within aura and take debuff. Ranged does not care.
I mean, almost everything is hard anti-melee and a joke to ranged/attack+move.
Getting 1 shot with a 65% armour and 3000HP made me not want to play it anymore...
65% armour is not even a thing. It is a lie on the character sheet. Only important number is the amount of armour you have. 65% number does not mean anything.
What were you even expecting, these are dogshit stats. I would agree that there are issues with the avalable defences outside of es and maybe evasion but cmon, with those stats you have a lot of room to grow.
@@Alejandro-xk5ej I mean this genuinely: Stop talking. In most games that amount of armor and HP would be enough to not get one shot.
gear issue
the raw stat of defense is just not here, I am able to make my warrior with 5k armor, 4k life, 5k ES, 75% block chance and still die occasionally in T15 map because the monsters keep pushing me and stuck me
The best to play warrior is to not use melee at all. Also its typical of GGG to make melee bad for 5 leagues in a row, just to buff it so its just as good as ranged characters, and then nerf it the next league 😅 it feels like nobody on the dev team play melee at all 😔
May I add: sekhema's trials are insane for true melee, so you'll end up getting your ascendancy points later than when you need them (or never). Not enough ways to generate endurance charges and underwhelming skills that make use of them. Stun threshold hard to understand compared to the full stun immunity available in PoE1.
Sekhema is for evasion based builds, Monk does it effortless.
This might not have bothered other people as much as it bothered me but I utterly loathe that I can't stack Earthquakes on one spot. If I want to do a second earthquake in the 14 seconds since I made the first one, I need to go through the, not small effort as melee, effort of moving and putting another one.
This bothered me, and the fact that it takes a lifetime for it to actually go off. Even with the fast forward gem, it's actually an extremely unplayable skill unless you like running in circles
I'm alternating earthquake and shield wall with no issues with fast forward and other 'reduced duration' passives.
@@Ascension88 Earthquake becomes very powerful once you have a good amount of AoE + aftershocks, it just blows half a screen + herald of ash, you can reduce the explosion even further with passive tree nodes. Earthquake is strong when there's a lot of monsters but rolling slam is still the most powerful to down a rare or boss or smaller groups, it just has a lot of insane multipliers + damage when they get stunned. The tremors gem can make a single earthquake explode like 5/6 times a row, it is clunky the fact you can't attack the same spot to trigger multiple of them, but a little bit to the side already works, they should fix it because it's just an unnecessary annoyance, probably not even intended. Also roling slam's aftershocks are bugged, it doesn't do any damage.