You may be the Solution to our Insurance Dilemma!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Howdy folks! Listen I appreciate everybody’s exuberance and willingness to help. But assuming you know the details and then running off half cocked can do more damage than good. So let’s be patient, let’s take time to understand the problem, let’s come up with multiple solutions, and lets pick the best one for us, Because your help is indeed needed but we have to work together. I will start selling off what I have and setting up Crowdfunding and looking a short term line of credit for insurance from folks with deep pockets in the next week. Comment with your ideas.
[ Amazon Smile support for The Sea Chest Foundation ]
smile.amazon.c...
[ Support Seeker ]
Patrons and Other Support: wp.me/P6ivyU-1wT
Buy Anything on Amazon and support Seeker when you use this link: amzn.to/2PeHRfq
Seeker Junk Store on Amazon www.amazon.com/...
[ More ]
Volunteer goo.gl/Lo1p6y
About Us: www.svseeker.co...
FaceBook Page: / sailingvesselseeker
FaceBook Group / svseeker
Blog: www.svseeker.co...
My Old Army Buddy had the same problem on a Boat he Built and the Insurance Companies would not write it until it was all tested and in the water... So he had the US Coast Guard authorize the Launch and they tested the engines and steering of the Boat with a Fire Crew on the Boat and all needed safety extra equipment available. They even had a Tug on scene who volunteered his crew. The port loaned the Coast Guard a Lift and Crew for deployment of the boat for a steering, Engine and flotation test no charge. Since it was a non Profit LLC set up the Coast Guard assumed the deployment risk. The steering and systems check went perfect. It was finished up at the dock..... CG gave it an approval and it passed all the run up tests. Then the Insurance companies would write the policy. It was good PR and good training for the CG trainees.
Oooh, this is good
Great idea!! ..And Doug is already set up as non-profit ...would certainly be worth contacting the Coast Guard and asking. What could be better than a seal of approval from the Coast Guard?
Sounds like a plan...
Reading through the comments it appears that a lot of people don't understand the issue. The issue is that Doug needs a $3M insurance policy that will allow for Seeker to be removed from the port waters in the extremely unlikely event that she sinks. He doesn't need insurance on the boat itself, he needs insurance that will allow the port to remove her if she sinks. That is my understanding and I could be wrong, but that is what I'm pretty sure Doug is saying. It is a crazy set of circumstances all converging on Doug. The port doesn't have a shipyard, so no dry dock. To the crane operator, Seeker is just cargo that just happens to float, but to the port, she is a vessel that could sink in a place that would prevent them from conducting normal operations until removed.
It sounds like what Doug/Seeker needs is surety bond. 🤔
It really just to cover any kind of incident. The boat sinking is just one, if something goes wrong and someone gets hurt and sues it would cover that. Replacing the cost of the boat is penny's to a insurance company, settling something like a wrongful death lawsuit is much more expensive and more what they are covering for.
If the crane lowers the boat and she don't float, can't the crane just pick her right back up? The thing held together rolling down the road, its not like she'll explode on contact with water like a sodium block. Another of boats get lifted of the wet and dropped on the dry just fine.
@@otherbob23 If they dip it in and it takes on water, you could quickly exceed the rating of the crane/s used trying to get it back out. Either which way, they aren't willing to risk it without some cover.
@@mitchkronowit3633 doubtful a surety with less knowledge than Lloyds of London would take on any such venture, but they most likely would do what's called "an undertaking" which means they certify the funds are secure (either in real estate, bank accounts, securities, whatever) and sufficient to cover the "penal sum" should any incident occur (and that's usually about 1/2 the premium or less of a bond)
It has school bus engine, trans, and windows. You bought the busses with titles and vin numbers i assume. Insure it as an antique bus with hagerty. Tell them you want it value insured at 3mil because of certain modifications. Worth a shot.
That's hilarious,
@@jwatkins5155 Probably won't work, but you sir, have a brilliant mind !
my dad has hagerty for his 79 camaro they wanted pictures of his or they would have dropped him so i don’t see your plan working
The definition of insurance fraud. If anything happened, there's no WAY they would pay out.
That's funny but at this point, feloniously illegal.
If it makes you feel any better Doug I had trouble getting Renko reinsured this year and only just managed it this week after having the premiums doubled. It's getting harder and harder every year...
Interesting i have like you a old steel boat 😅 32 fot … twin engine (penta 🤣) and it’s no brand and no problems at all to get insurance for .. and the cost is 250 us$ /year and it fully insured for a value of 50 000 us$ .. but this is in Sweden 🇸🇪 😄
It's a rort
Yup, 23’ one design open keelboat in the UK. It’s got harder and harder to find a company that’ll provide cover at all over the last 5 years and the price has increased avg 25% per annum during that period.
That and the cost of mooring servicing are beginning to make me question whether I can keep justifying it. The mooring service nailed me just a hair under £700 this year. That’s only the ground tackle etc, not the annual mooring rental which is a shade more than the service per annum. 🤬
@@robm.4512
Ohh shit i did think Sweden was expensive:-) hmm the fee to be at my dock with power and water the cost is 350 us$ /year and the insurance is 250 us$ /year this for a steel boat 14 x3 m 7 ton
@@robm.4512 greedy corporations just want more and more and more and moreAND MORE AND MORE, never going to stop, the plebs will suffer everytime...Oh and these greedy corporations are backed by politicians and the LAW, why? because the politicians are the greedy corporations... its infuriating..
Good luck! A traffic jam on the road from an accident is an inconvenience and has costs involved to many. A potential traffic jam at multi modal logistics hub that has a huge economic impact to OK is a big deal. It’s hard for the average person to grasp the idea that you’re not at a marina with a bunch of pleasure craft:) I hope it works out.
Build a swimming pool around it. Fill it with river water. Then claim it's already in the river.
Had not considered that. : )
Haha, was my thought, too.
Just like those Gambling Boats had to be floating in Mo. So they dug a ditch and carved out the land under the boat, filled with river water. BINGO What would happen if it rolled into the river outside the Port. By itself -you know Gravity did it!!
😂 This idea is symbolic gold. If it hinders based on how stuff is on paper, you overcome based on how stuff is on paper.
Some piles of dirt and some tarps and you could make your own river.
This part of the saga is the most interesting so far (and I've been watching since you were folding the hull steel). I keep wondering, why would a company give you insurance... and I guess the answer is an expectation of financial return. So how would one assess the risk in order to set the reward? Do the insurers ask questions like:
Was the boat built to designs that were drawn up by a naval architect, are deviations from design documented?
Where is the COG in relation to the COB, have ship stability calculations been performed?
Were the welds below the waterline done by a professional with certifications and training, can an inspection on the welds be done that could certify them after the fact?
Is the steel the hull is constructed from from a known good source?
What else do they ask? At what point has the ship taken on to much water to for the crane to no longer be able lift it free from the water (is there such a point at all) or is the risk mostly during the transit from where the crane releases to where the boat is no longer in danger of blocking commerce if it sinks? I'd love to hear you talk more candidly about this process once the situation is resolved. If you do a gofundme like approach I'd contribute $100 to a 30 day bond. I'd have to be a billionaire in order to risk the whole 3 million as I can't fathom the risk however infinitesimal it might be. Interesting stuff.
Well, when a guys motto is "safety third" and boo hoo's anybody who suggests smart, safe ways to operate and does it publicly on practically every single video then it's no wonder he's having a hard time finding reputable insurance at any cost :P
@@randogame4438 Insurance companies are professional entities, I doubt they care at all about Doug and any of his personality traits. I suspect they are more concerned with entrenched due process. I'm interested in the facts of this whole debacle. If they did review the build footage and that influenced their decisions, well that would be interesting information as well.
Just wait till the coast guard gets a hold of the boat.
I asked this question long ago about drawings, weld inspection and fire suppression systems and was laughed off saying us Navy guys were too cautious. Imagine if NASSCO shipyard in San Diego started allowing folks off the street to weld on the hull of the ships they built, and didn’t at least do NDT inspections of those welds.
I’m not sure because it’s none of my business but if she is to be registered as commercial vessel and not a pleasure craft the rules and regulations get really tight. Usually the magic number is 75’ or larger before the heavy regulations hit.
It’s why so many ships from cruise ships to commercial aren’t US flagged vessels, and why so many of those ships go to South America and other places for refurbishment, because the US commercial craft laws are so strict (if SV Seeker is registered commercial.)
I get it the port wants to be covered if something happens, no dishonor in doing their job right, lot of people need that port for employment, if she sunk at the pier it would effect a lot of people, but even when SV Seeker gets past that “marker” there will be more hoops, and more insurance requirements but that’s all part of it.
Sorry 30 years in the Navy, I’ve pulled enough fishermen and sailors out of the ocean, just do it right and take your time.
@@WFCinSC Well, it's called "Due Diligence" and I'd be surprised if they didn't take a look at how this thing was built "This guy has never welded before and in five minutes he was able to weld all this!" wouldn't inspire confidence in me. But hey, as Doug says "you just live in fear".
your going to have insurance problems getting down the river because you are way underpowered with only a single engine. a boat that big at drift down the river could do some real damage to bridges
Lloyd's turning you down, I've seen them offer stupidly high premiums and some crazy terms, but I've never seen them flat out say "no thanks"
Probably most boats are designed by naval architects and have plan approval etc
The only way Lloyds would have insured is they had been ‘involved’ from the start and it had been built to approved standards and complied with those standards. I am not knocking Doug and his teams efforts for a magnificent achievement just stating how it is.
@@normanboyes4983 well put
@@normanboyes4983 Yea, there is a reason most people dont take on projects like this. The paperwork and red tape can be too much for one or two people to deal with. I mean, imagine you wanted to do something like this in Los Angeles, good luck lol. But you might have a chance in Oklahoma, worst case, they can move the boat somewhere else.
I had real trouble getting a modern standard production GRP outboard catamaran insured in the Caribbean and many companies that reinsure through Lloyds would not quote.
Have Seeker placed on a Flattop barge on her keels. Float it out and turn the barge into a floating drydock. Sink the barge, float Seeker away and then refloat the barge. Technically you are not putting the boat in the water but on a barge for transport.
Came here to type this exact thing. They have the barges that can pick up distressed boats way bigger than Seeker.
The only way this would work is to hire a company to bring a submersible barge, he needs the insurance they already have.
Turning a barge into a floating drydock would take a shipyard 12 to 18 months. Nevermind DOT and Coast Guard approval. The best thing would to have a viral sort of fundraiser where the bond was raised and when not needed would be used for Doug's research projects.
Might be on to something there
Maybe just buy a barge, then sink it when out at sea, re float, and donate to (fill in gap here no idea who would want a barge)
Isn't seeker on a trailer? Slip way..... hehe
Happy to see your progress after following you for many years. Very curious what the next chapter on the water will be like. 👍👍👍
Try to contact more insurance companies dealing with that kind of stuff. And do it personal or on the phone. We had conversations with about 20 companies before we found the perfect match for our needs that would insure our boat (70ft liveaboard retired fishing vessel) without requiring tremendous amounts of money or extensive surveys. They are out there. About 10 turned us down right away. Another 7 after detailed conversations. We had offers from 3 while 2 of them required pre-insurance surveys. We are located in germany and therefore not of great help. Keep it up!
I believe you meant a Letter of Credit (LOC) rather than a Line of Credit. A letter of credit can be issued, for example, by a well established bank to a well deserving customer. The bank then guarantees payment to the insurance company or whomever needs the guarantee in case certain things/conditions happen...all legally spelled out in the guarantee the bank issues. The bank relies on their customer's financial strength to back the Letter of Credit. Your benefactor would only be "on the hook" for the bank's cost of issuing their guarantee (usually a percentage of the LOC) unless something does go wrong with the launch and then only to the extent of the insurance company's loss on a claim...if the guarantee is written properly. The insurance company usually supplies the legal wording for the Letter of Credit guarantee to meet their needs. The nice thing about the LOC is that, depending on the credit worthiness of the "borrower" (he who backs the LOC) the bank may rely on their customer's financial strength (unsecured), some liquid assets, stocks, and/or bonds or a combination to issue the LOC.
In hindsight, maybe "Safety 3rd" not the best project mantra prior to obtaining insurance? 1. Have a Naval Architect perform a stability analysis 2. register and flag the vessel with "flag of convenience" in jurisdiction with least onerous statutory requirements 3. Engage with MWS (marine Warranty surveyor) restricted to the operation of lifting, floating the vessel key side, assist tug ratings, incline test, load line etc. Try obtaining a CAR (construction all risks) policy that encompasses the reverse engineering, stability analysis and certification, final assembly and commissioning, USCG certification key side. Im surprised a resourceful broker cannot find underwriter to support you, assuming of course you perform some due diligence on the design as per above. Good luck
It's not a matter of getting the boat itself insured. It's insurance for the use of the port to put it in the water.
@@pamike4873 the requirement is for insurance for the activity and the vessel / parties / owners would be named to identify the risk, which is why I suggested a CAR policy may be a solution in lieu of it being a USCG (or other recognized 3rd party) certification of the vessel. The port will carry its own insurance but this policy would not cover liability of the owner or the 3rd party lifting company. This is all pretty basic industry practice
Wish I could help. I just gave my captain a pretty big loan today so I’m sort of tapped at the moment… but I REALLY admire your spirit and tenacity. Remember: persistence breaks down resistance, always has, always will. Keep at it!
My Cap once told me "stick and stay, make it pay".
What I don’t understand is: why don’t you need insurance once the boat is on the water? What happens if you collide with another boat and destroy it? Or cause death or injury?
Boat collisions happen all the time.
@@Waldopepper1962 hits nail on head
What happens if you cross the lane of traffic while texting on your phone and you kill a whole family? Not operating a vehicle is your best option because no amount of insurance is going to bring those children back from the dead. Life is a risk. You either live with it, or hide and wait to die.
@@SVSeeker not a good comparison. I’m not manoeuvring a 50 tonne sledge hammer around other fragile boats.
Not being in a position to cover damages you may inflict on other boats with your giant floating sledgehammer is frankly ignorant.
@@djlord9189 So we should all be more like you. Fearful and boring?
@@SVSeeker it’s called being responsible
Doug it sounds to me like you need captive insurance. Basically you become self insured.
Places like Bermuda and the Cayman Islands have captive managers that could help you with this.
Essentially you are self insured. Your viewers could put the necessary capital into the SV seeker captive and would get their money back if there are no claims.
Obviously this is a very basic overview but you should look it up.
Thanks, and that is what we are doing. Essentially someone with deep pockets get a Line of Credit from there bank and the crane operators then know if anything happens, they have the money available to clean it up.
@@SVSeeker You are correct in the way you are being self insured. There are however advantages of doing the captive and you may want to consider it to ensure your awesome boat in the future. Instead of paying premiums to an insurance company you were paid to your own captive and you would get your premium back if there are no claims
Are they gone let it sink before they lift it back up , I don't think so, that limit the damage ?
@@Kebekwoodcraft7375 not good enough for them.
@@Kebekwoodcraft7375 It is only about potential damage to others, mostly potentially halting operations at the crane or even worse the entire port.
Always wonder if this was going to be an issue. Also cannot complete the electrical at a different place because you then you have to take the pilot house off again.
Real pirates would show up at the lift with cutlass in hand, and wave it in the face of the crane operator and say "Arrrrhhhh this cutlass be my insurance policy ladee, it underwrites me whole operation!". .... Thank goodness you're not a real pirate.
I suspect there are a couple of concerns with the party's involved. If the boat is lifted in slings and has a structural issue...it could block the Watco crane site and bring cargo transfer to a stop and create a substancial loss of income. Once in the water...if there is a fuel leak, etc...the environmental cleanup would cost a fortune...and again potentially shut down the port during cleanup.
Just to work on a boat in a marina...many marinas require significant insurance for fuel spills etc.
While I often casually wondered about the internal structure of a folded steel hull with few ribs...the structure obviously held up to being a self supported trailer with all the flexing and such during transport...but it seems an unproven one off design of a vessel of this size. So I can understand hesitation by various insurance companies.
A solution will be found...but I suspect it may take some time.
What are the odds that there is someone in the area building the largest bathtub in their front yard willing to help us out here and give Doug’s boat a float test.
I must say I'm a bit envious You're so close to being in the water... I've been dreaming of learning to sail and sailing for 20 years wish I lived near the coast
Been thinking about this all day. I've been asked to carry liability insurance for my business to work in certain high value places, which seems very similar. I would ask if general liability insurance would be sufficient, and then I would try to get it for the Seachest Foundation. You don't actually need to insure the boat, you need to insure the operations of the non-profit.
When my partners and I were starting our auto repair shop we needed garage keepers insurance. All the places asked how many cars we work on a month?... Well I don't know we are just starting. How much is the average vehicle in your shop worth? Don't know. You can probably figure how that went. Finally, Nationwide wrote a policy for us, it was cheaper than we guessed insurance would cost, did it all over the phone no inspections. My father needed insurance for his business as he had some radio equipment on a grain elevator, in case he caused damage to the elevator. he battled for months and finally I told him my story. 20 min phone call while he was standing at my shop, he had nationwide insurance. Not a sponsor but they solved many problems for us.
Get a 100 people a handful of rollers and a gentle shore line and launch the boat outside of the port, job done Lloyds can suck it. Boats launch all the time without the strings of bureaucracy due to a shipping Corp.
Turned down by Lloyd's of London.... Ouch.
Gotta be a first
Could you do the insurance for this self build experimental boat on the same lines as I assume the movie industry use? In some ways this boat is a movie star in its own right and the movie side of this is 100% relevant. It’s a entertainment pursuit too. Much of what is used in the movie industry is for short term movie use, and must involve lots of one offs.
Maybe they saw all your videos and actually made the decision based on those. Could that be it? Could they have a problem with the welding?
I don't get it, so if someone helps out like your suggesting and if something does happen they're on the hook for the cleanup and lost of revenue to the port? That's a tall order to fill on good faith. Good luck with that.
As a fisherman we have group insurance "FV Vessels" have you checked to see if there is a "RV Vessels group"
The first thing that popped into my head was making some sort of hold harmless contract. Which was quickly followed by, that's just not going to work for this. Collateral damage, and post incident remediation, don't get covered by that.
Hopefully this will resolve quickly.
Ghrey
Amazing that people think they are so entitled to send nasty emails to companies about a subject that they have absolutely no clue of the details nor what's going on. I'm mean, don't they realize they can create a lot more problems to Doug and other people by doing stuff like that? Just use your brain and have some common sense people.
Unfortunately, some of the people I see commenting on this channel, but more so in the FB group are rollicking in a kind of renegade, caveman mentality that seems to be embraced if not encouraged. These are exactly the kind of people I would expect to act out this way.
Buy or rent an old wore out / cheap barge, load Seeker as cargo and float away from the port to a safe area out of the main channel.
Sink the barge with Seeker detached and move Seeker away from sunken barge.
Use your scuba equipment, big air compressor and rented pumps to refloat the barge for selling or returning to get $ back.
if all else fails, this is exactly what i/we (others) need to consider doing. we will start a limited marine salvage llc. pool some quick front funds. hire a cameraperson (doug) and get the adventure back in action. then we are going on the discover channel. i grew up on a barge that would slowly sink to the waterline. that is how we parked it. then we would pump it out to refloat it when needed. it was quite labor some but remember_ it was a barge. all the pieces could fall into place
Yeah, or the barge could become a reef?
@@lucky13farms99 Rivers don't have reef's; becomes underwater obstruction, if left in the river.
@@jhoncho4x4 Bingo, and the liability for blocking a waterway would be enormous.
Doug, is there another area along the water way that can be utilized? Drive out the Port, have the cranes ready…. Looks like an area is close by on Bird Creek but I do not know the depth…trying to help Doug, it’s been a long haul!
Hey Doug, did you see post below by Reno Flames? His friend has a home-made boat and was in the same predicament...Coast Guard authorized deployment and assumed risks at no charge!...Check it out below!
I can remember when everyone was asking how is he going to get that to the ocean. I guess everyone should of been asking how are you going to get that insured to be allows to put it in the water.
Would they do a bond? Depending on how you have the ownership of Seeker, I wonder if you could just do a commercial general liability policy with a 3 million dollar rider and have seeker listed as an asset of the company or non profit you have set up.
Doug mentioned they are extremely expensive. For example, even at 10%, a $3 million surety bond would cost $300,000.
Well done Doug. Keep your chin up and "get it done". You've taught yourself welding, fabricating, casting, 3d printing, CNC milling and numerous other things. You've done things most people wouldn't dream of doing. The next step on your journey is insurance bullshit. I've every faith that you'll smash that bit, like all the other bits over the last ten years.
I have a suggestion. Double check your local applicable code concerning the distinction between a Motor Sailing Vessel and a Sailing Vessel. Could you pull the Motor and go in the regulatory side door?
With no sail mast and no motor, you could call it a barge?
Doug, good to see that you're still in high spirits. Hopefully all will work out!
Good luck.
It will. It's always just a matter of not quitting.
This is what happens when there's video evidence of how the boat was built😂Maybe thing's aren't up to their standards.What if you say pranked an accident while loading or it sinking after???
We've considered some doozies. Are you going to pay attention this time?
@@SVSeeker what
So, how long can the boat be at the port before you've gotta take it back to the house?
Well, dang it. Time to build a port facility by way of the internet
The port the internet built.
Hi Doug, sorry to hear about the issues with insurance, but congratulations for getting to port and getting where you are. I remember well the feeling when the building era ends and the boat bit begins. Best of luck getting insurance. Shame there is not a big enough slip way near you that a high tide could do the job, then remove wheels after. But I know you will find a way. Incidentally I can only get 3rd party insurance. These insurance companies want all the money and no risk nowadays. Take care and don’t let the buggers get you down!
So close yet so far, it will happen soon. Amazing work all around, dreams inspire others and everyone who took place in this project has fed that inspiration. A grateful community is watching.
I would dig a pond and set that sucker in it, show to floats with no leaks, then drain it and if not its going to make a nice land museum.
Get a bull dosser, make a 40ft long by 20ft pit , then drive the seeker in it, and fill that sucker with water, then get a inspection and re apply! a lot cheaper than 3 million
Lloyd's insured the Titanic but won't insure this? Lmao. They must be pretty doubtful.
The titanic was newest ship out there built by a very experienced dock, the reason the titanic sunk is why the rules got harder, the titanic even exceeded the saftey rules of the time (thats why they thought it cant sink)
Just put it in a dry dock if it sinks in the drydock remove water lol... they have a 720-foot general dry cargo dock can this be an option?
The dry cargo dock is just a place that barges can dock to load dry cargo. There's a bridge crane that looks like it can load items like shipping containers, and I'm thinking thats the crane that will put Seeker in the water if they use a crane.
@@jameslederer7613 I wish you could just go to a public boat launch attached a dolly to the front kingpin then use a tow truck to winch it slowly into the water... Cut away the wheels and have a tow truck remove them from the water (wonder how many laws this will brake lol)
@@LunasEmpireSL To be honest, I'm not sure if that violates any laws. Is there actually a limit to the size of the boat that can be launched at a public launch? Just figure out a way to do it and get it done before anyone objects. The fines can't possibly be more than $3,000,000.
@@jameslederer7613 I have no idea I am trying to look it up and found nothing…
The only risk of using a boat launch is dragging a truck into the water, but if you use a dolly and a 60 ton tow truck it should eliminate the risk…
Years ago, during my brokers exams, I was told that Lloyds of London didn’t refuse any offer of liability, though they reserved the right to quote a massive premium. Is it possible that the department could be the issue? A shipping department might require a list of items to be completed, but a group of ‘Names’ might offer a one off policy to cover the lift and movement to a certain distance. Might be expensive though. Hope this helps.
It's almost looking like it would be useful to figure a way to just back the boat in at a ramp and then unbolt the wheels and such while in the water. If it comes to that air tools will work just fine in the water as long as the cylinders can't flood so may require a condom with the end cut off over the exhaust port. And you just want to paint the bolts with a bright white or yellow paint so they are easy to spot in the water with minimal visibility. Anyway have BCD and will travel, LOL.
My understanding is that a few years ago there was a great deal of competition in the boat insurance market and rates were cut to the bone. Then followed a number of huge claims following natural disasters, large number of companies lost money and dropped out. So lack of competition and a desire to recoup earlier losses and build contingency funds has led to rocketing rates and boats with no claims history suddenly being refused coverage.
Much respect for coming this far and still staying humble with this last obstacle I have a huge amount of respect for you sir💯💯
Doug, you designed Seeker to land on a beach with the tide to work on it. Just haul Seeker to a beach when the tide is out and Bob's your uncle.
I am not that guy. Hope you find one who can help
They need it to be in the water? Should I pray for rain... Lots of rain...?
If only 80% of the channels subscribers agreed to pay $20 into escrow you would be sorted. I don’t think many people would worry about $20 and that sum or number of $20 loans you would need could be reduced by anything you raise or any other larger donations.
To me that seems like a reasonable solution to at least try. I’d loan you $20 in a heartbeat.
I was thinking the same, hell, It's only a small possibility they'll actually need it, I'd prob go $200 for him.
That port is awesome, great people out there
A bit late to the party with this suggestion but, either buy, borrow, rent or steal a regular barge, have your vessel loaded like cargo into it sitting on blocks. Float it out past the boundary that is the issue, have Jared from the RUclips channel Adventures with purpose attach his airbags to the barge, pump water in and do a controlled sink of the barge. Float your vessel away and refloat the barge with the airbags and pump out the water. I can't promise he could help you out but, the worst thing would be a no answer. Jared could film his part for his channel and you get your boat in the water. Sounds win- win to me.
Massive failure on Dougs part and he knew better….why would he think he’d be exempt from needing insurance is a good question. Now he’s stuck in a dirt lot with an unfinished boat and no legal way to launch it…this could take months to resolve
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. It's catch 22 stuff, you would know if you had to deal with these leaches. Dough just needs to find a way around it.
lets all call Trump _ we have had enough of the Biden mindset on things..
Is there a dry dock you can crane the boat into and then get a "normal " survey ?
We found one about 400 miles up river. It's an option but an expensive one.
What about getting Seeker loaded onto a barge and towed out past the port boundary...then "add water ballast" (ie: sink) the barge out from under seeker...then pump out and refloat the barge...
@@m37cdn We have been talking about that option too. The problem is finding a company that will let you sink their barge. :-)
@@SVSeeker I've seen barges along the Mississippi with cranes on them that can lift some pretty big payloads, such as the ones they used to build the new suspension bridge at Bettendorf, Ia.
The thing is still on wheels right? Is there no slipway it could accidentally slip down? :)
When there would be an old unused river ferry ramp or a military ramp to slip… I would consider this… the trailer is more or less one use only so get all the oil of and figure out a plan to pi(rat)ly slip it into the water outside the port. How big is the chance seeker will sink? I guess it will float a bit to high… may its possible to weight it more precise and du some ballast calculations … here in Germany there are a lot slipways from old ferries and for military use for amphibious bridge building tanks.
Fair play to you for owning it. I wish I had the money to put up but you gonna have to hope for someone way richer than me. Good luck, I cannot wait to see her in the water!!
Is there a local boat ramp nearby that you can back the trailer down the ramp?
First off that boat would not be launched into the water by trailer. It's gonna be moved with a boat lift that moves on wheels.
Yes, but the water is only 2 ft deep and the channel is about 200 yards long.
😂 I sure hope you were joking. This ain’t a bass boat.
@@SVSeeker But then it would be "in the water" and thought you mentioned it helped the insurance situation, if it's already in the water.
Just looking for a possible loop hole.
Crane is then picking it up out of shallow water and setting it back down into deeper water.
What about a different port? Trailer the thing down river a bit maybe? Is there a dry dock available somewhere that you could use?
Hey so I own my company Long Hull Outfitters and we have insurance for similar situations through our business insurance that might be an option for you. If your reading this Doug let me know you can get a hold of me and I can maybe help walk you through this.
Thanks I don't have a business but we are looking at a business provider now, as well as the marine route.
I love this man!! Doug you’re a role model
A real man takes responsibility for his problems!!
Good luck!!! 👍
I vote plan B!
The same approach you took when you launched the sub.
Is it possible to crane it in just outside port owned land ? There has got to be a way around what if insurance.
Damn, didn't see that coming.
It's just the next thing. This too has solutions.
We had a tricky thing with insurance, too. Nobody wanted to insure a fully custom box truck turned RV lol. A lot of insurance companies that consumers see at face level are not actually the main branch of the insurance, so we had better luck finding the parent companies and asking them. Even still, most of them wouldn't insure it. We're still waiting to hear back from State Farm, but we have our fingers crossed!! Good luck! And awesome flag!
I am sure your positive attitude and the crew's positive attitude is going to Prevail, you're going to be in the water soon
How does anyone else launch a new boat? How did Salt and Tar do it? Unfinished boat, plunk, in the water.
Also, what’s the three million dollar liability? Salvage costs?
If you hit another boat, 3 million is only the beginning. Recovery cost is a fraction of that. Same as when you own a car.
Travel lifts are like Taylor Crane. It's just a load to move and they roll the cost of insurance into the price.
@@nobodynoone2500 that makes sense. It’s just that this seems to be about just the launching. The car analogy covers all your driving all over, while Doug mentioned it was just about getting out of the port. Do you mean if you hit a boat while launching and getting out of port? Thanks.
@@ButterflyMatt it's about if it sinks and blocks the port.
who,s going to pilot the boat down river,and does doug have any ocean going experience?
Figured we'd just let it drift down and figure the rest out when we get there.
So what you are asking for is an under whiter yes
Think about what you already have ie. the boat
Now start a GoFundMe that funds an escrow account that returns the money after 90 days and anyone that can contribute will be entitled to a day aboard the SV Seeker
Just an idea
Hope it helps brother
If I wasn't in such bad shape I would like to help personally
Take care and good luck
Fare winds
In Bristol fashion
Just saying
Use the ports crane to set Seeker on one of those river barges and take it downstream and have the 2 cranes place it in the water.
That is an option.
@@laker3 Looking at that too.
@@laker3 That’s basically a floating dry dock. When I used to volunteer on a sailing brig out of Dana Point, we would take her every year up to Long Beach and raise her up for maintenance (bottom paint, zincs, you name it.) using one. I’m not sure if they have one around the Port of Catoosa, but I’d be surprised if they didn’t. The only issue is the dry dock operator may require insurance or a bond as well, but maybe not as much as $3 million. 😬
@@laker3 Same general idea/operating principle. I’m not sure what is more common around the Port of Catoosa, but whatever Doug can get his hands on to splash Seeker.
Best video since the start of the build!
agreed, building part was fun but this is hilarious
Outside thought. For all you've done for Tulsa and OK, what if Tulsa mayor or OK governor back you?
I have shallow pockets but I'm donating and praying - praying especially for some deep pockets to meet up with an insurer who would like a boatload of great publicity for helping to launch the SV Seeker.
It would be cheaper to buy waterfront property and launch it from there. Do you know anyone with waterfront property on that river?
Being retired Jan and I have 3 dollars. How about a million people with $3 each. Just coming up with a potential solution. Love the channel. Jan and Ron
Just back it in at the boat ramp... lol
Doug i have been watching this build for over 3 years and have went back into the archives to the delivery of the plate steel! If i had 3 million just in my savings i would back your boat well past the bouis! Wow what a delima! Just wait till dark and just put it in and go!!! Im as pissed as you! They all lnew it was coming wth!!
The best i can do is help you find another port. Or bring my backhoe to a beach we can push it off on sand or dig out dry dock on the beach, then flood it and sail out at high tide.
Is this just a Port of Catoosa issue or is it the same everywhere? Any chance on moving the boat further downstream with less red tape?
Hope you have documentation from LoL's refusal (ironic abbreviation huh ? he he); you may want to frame it later ! So for $3M liability they'll insure you for a full month, week, day, or is it by the hours required to move it that far ? If so by the hours/minutes required, could you expedite by using the LM Tender to move you across the line sooner to another dock or mooring ?
If Lloyds of London is balking at insuring, either they have seriously tightened their actuaries or that boat looks unproven to the sea-worth inspector. And I think you said this, but once it’s floating that changes everything.
Sending positive vibes!!! I have like 300 bucks I could cheap in!!! Stay blessed..
the simplest solution would be used the harbor crane. if not there is a solution, pay a fee to put the seeker back on the road and bring it to a place to launch it with its wheels. you can put a trailer hitch behind your pole trailer and make a road train to back up the boat very far in the water. find professional divers to remove axles in the water. I saw a place near the port which seems perfect, the place "33 landing" there is a widening of the river and allows not to block traffic
That place is 4 times further. And I would never hire divers to take that much fun away from me.
@@SVSeeker yes I understand, but do you have the authorization to use the edge of the water which belongs to the territory of the port? I am sure you have follower divers ready to help you for free
I sucks that it comes to this, but it illustrates one of the biggest problems in the world today, an absence of risk!
BTW, I've sent you every million I have, rounded down.
Use some rollers no crane
..?
Greetings from
Australia 🇦🇺 and our motherland
UK 🇬🇧
Did you end up finding a policy? Did you look for a marine builders risk or something else?
So if you find a big enough crane barge near the port and they would lift you the port would not need any insurance from you ?
:)
There is not a drydock that could be used in your area? Or even a rail type ramp at a boatyard near by? I'm sure you already thought of that, my heart goes out to you! Good luck!
Have you checked out Tokio Marine HCC? They handle specialty insurance. We actually have our Cyber Attack policy through them at my company.
*Avoid Lloyd's of London like the plague.* Any number of boat/ship policies are MUCH less costly at other companies.
hope you get it sorted, must be very frustrating
Hi guys I think you may need to consider moving to another launch site preferably on private land (maybe farmers field?) without any government or corporate interference. Forget about the crane push her in the river on logs with a big f-in dozer or dig a big hole put seeker in then dig out the dam. Hell I'll come down and help ya!
If I had that kind of money I would definitely help you out. Good luck.
Is there a dry dock nearby that the boat could be craned into or backed down into? The gates could be opened, flooding the dock and the port would not be involved in the launching.
Not nearby that we have found yet. ...but we're still looking. A deck barge would work too.
You seem so smart but can’t figure out how to turn on CC for us that can’t hear
Cant you just load it on to a freighter and have them drop it in the Ocean out side of US territorial waters?? That way it is only listed as cargo?
Open water is a hell of a place to drop an untested, experimental, one-off ship built by someone who's most memorable motto is "Saftey Third" :-D
Sort of a "Trial By Water"
I have absolutely nothing but respect for Doug his Team and crew. And I have full confidence in his abilities. But even the most experienced ship Builders, Captains and crews make mistakes. It seems like it would be best to find and solve any potential issues in a harbor, or at least within range of land/ help if needed.
Anyway Doug if you are reading this I am wishing you the best! I've been watching your progress since 2011 and I would be glad do donate a little money to a patreon if you were in need.
I'm not rich by any means but with enough of your subscribers donating it could make a difference.