The P53 Enfield and Mk III Snider-Enfield: Firepower Compared
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
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For your Martini and Snider needs email Martyn at xringservices@yahoo.com
And for further reading on all British Victorian (and earlier) arms stop by the British Militaria Forum and say hello. britishmilitari...
1:36 That has to be the most satisfying firing sound I have heard in a long, long time.
I agree
I don't know what it is about it, but you're absolutely right.
The computer editing that multiplies you for a visual is absolutely unique to your channel and is a great tool for understanding!!! Please continue with videos like this. I enjoy them quite a bit.
Glad you do. They take a ton of work and I am happy to hear that you appreciate them. Thank you!
Once again outstanding and educational video. I really enjoy how the quality of you're videos has improved since you started.
Glad to hear! Thanks!
Get in!!! He's back! Always a good day when " Fighting Mac" comes back! Awesome stuff happening !
So true, haha
An excellent video with clever effects. Quoting Kipling on the Snider "A blue ringed hole in the forehead and the back of the scull completely missing"
Yes, about the Campaign in the Ashanti.
The guns & regalia with mountains behind you...Your channel Sir is majestic to say the least.
Thank you!
Oh daaamn, I really thought about this years ago, about the "point of change between the original reloading proccess with gunpowder directly to the basic bullet creation", for me is such a MASSIVE change, all that time reloading one single shoot now was reduced, such an amazing improvement
Such a good videos, really great job man
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers.
Another very entertaining and well presented video. I am amazed by how you managed to find so many actors in all identical to you. My compliments to the many of you!
It takes a while but you can dredge them up from time to time.
You know what the Sassenach say: "All those Highlanders look the same."
“This, of course, was the Snider”... that episode was the first time I heard of you, and have been hooked ever since... so many beautiful guns, not enough time or money to buy them all!
Ok, I've used that line a bit too much..... is that what you are saying?... :-)
It's that line that introduced me to your channel and have been a faithful subscriber henceforth...
Stunning scenery in the background.
Another excellent job and video!!!! I hope you know how much appreciation goes into your videos by us the viewers! Thank you very much
Thank you Sam.
Outstanding video. The reading of the text over a great CGI effort was wonderful.
Cheers! Glad you enjoyed it.
A great video. Fascinating how things used to be done. Thank you.
Cheers!
The scenery in your videos never ceases to amaze me
Great video again Rob, cheers from England.
Thank you!
Thank you for all you do to make your channel great. I have had Snider lust for years and wanted a companion for my trapdoor, and your videos pushed me over the edge. I bought a mint Snider from your country and all the things I need to make it talk again. I love BPCR! Thanks again.
Nice! Many happy hours with the Snider, for sure!
Your videos are beyond any superlative. Brilliant, outstanding, excellent, superb, even epic are shamefully insubstantial. Keep it up. I hope you have patented the RobMac cloning machine! :D
Thank you John. Very kind of you to say so.
Great video. It’s kind of amazing to think how much warfare changed in the course of a single lifespan in the mid-to-late 19th century. A young private joining in 1850 would have trained with a P1842 musket, and potentially retired as a staff sergeant in the 1890s leading men armed with magazine-fed, bolt action Lee Metfords.
I agree. Although that would be some career!... 45 years! Unbelievable though, the amount of change... Beginning in fancy coatees and shakos with all the trimmings and ending up lying on the ground behind a rock on the NW Frontier dressed in khaki, giving magazine fire to the onrushing enemy..... Now, please don't take this the wrong way,.... :-)..... as a Staff Sergeant, technically he would not be "leading men" as you describe.... he'd be on the staff of the Battalion.... he'd be the RQMS, or the Orderly Room Sergeant, or the one of the many other positions within the unit. Now as a Colour Sergeant or the Sergeant Major, you could make a very good case for leadership... Cheers!
britishmuzzleloaders Ooops, I was thinking of a sergeant major, but couldn’t remember the correct title. And yes, it’s a stretch for an NCO. Some officers did it, though. Lord Garnet Wolseley comes to mind.
Love these videos you put out my man.
Thanks!
Very informative. The band music title and players name would be a nice addition to the description.
Holy crap this video must of taken a load of effort well done!
Cheers!
Excellent work! As always interesting comparisons and history lessons mixed. Thank you.
Thank you!
The presented calculations are indeed a proof of the staggering rate of fire increase! Another excellent video :D
Cheers!
Victory in the campaign of 68` I think you will find lies with Harry Flashman VC......
Well chosen.
Excellent Rob. Loved the volley fx.
Cheers!
Excellent video again Rob but (27 degrees C ) I wish ? Last time I took my Snider hunting was 45 C midday didn't get under 30 C at night but saying that its still better than the cold you have to cope with over there - Cheers
Like I said, at this time of year, in my part of the world, it's a bit of a heat wave.... :-)
Am in the only one who constantly hears The British Grenadiers March while watching britishmuzzleloaders even when it's not playing?
Huh? What? I can't hear you,... they're playing the British Grenadiers....
Just reading about the indian mutiny and getting interested in the P53 :D Your video is right in time :) ! Really cool.
Fascinating topic!
Excellent video! Very interesting and educational era of history!
Thank you!
Awesome video Rob! Keep up the great work
Thanks Matt.
Thanks for another excellent video, you put so much into your videos it is amazing your truly are inspiring! I was thinking of getting a Snider but opted out for a 45-70 Trapdoor "American girl here" anyway but also a southern girl and the Enfield was used Among the CSA in the war between the states, so I think I will save up and get a P53 , they are excellent rifles a friend of mine has one, make a wonderful hunting in to days world. Can take just about about anything in North America with it.
There isn't much that a 500+ gr bullet can't do...
I have a old Lyman Hawken rifle .58 cal and a 1863 Remington Contract repo .58 cal. I normally shoot ball in the hawken and mini in the musket rifle. But last year I was hunting with the hawken decided I wanted to use the mini in it 530 gr with 60 gr of 2FG, well a deer walked out I pulled down on him he never moved bang flop. This coming up year I plan on using the contract rifle some, but also the trapdoor if I go through with it, Iv got it on layaway now really considering asking them to put the funds paid in toward that .577 Snider I watched your reloading videos its a easy gun to reload for.
Happy Acts of Union Day!
An Excellent Presentation Good Sir !!!
Thank you.
Good work Rob. Greasy paws is another reason for the Enfield round to have gone to pure bees wax other than the interaction between lead and fats in storage. Have you tried a bees wax round in a cold barrel in your winter?
I have.... it was junk. Accuracy suffered and they were extremely hard to ram as I use a .564 bullet. I will get a .55 mould and try it there... more windage, easier loading.
Being photographed with your arm directly across the muzzle. Dear, dear.
Yeah,... dear, dear....
Oh man, I wish the local reenactment troupe here will invite you here in the Philippines and be one of those Spanish Colonial officers in the Philippine revolution reeneactment, the handlebar moustache really does it hahahaha
Huzzah! This is top-flight research! You would be a great reference for museums, historians, and re-enactment.
I like how you measured the rate of firing using a pre-loaded first round, as would be done in battle.
The time advantage of the Snider would have been even greater if they had to fire from prone.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers.
I love this concept! But I miss the Ross twins and of course private MacKenzie!
Robert of Flanders I was going to comment on how smooth & regular Pvt Mackenzie is in getting off his shots.
Indeed he was! But I think the Ross twins are quicker!
They'll be back... :-)
Splendid video, glad to be a subscriber. Every time I watch one of your videos I wish I lived up north. I would trade you for that 27°C right now... STL approximately 30°C today, most annoying.
Glad to have you along! Thanks!
Snider and Martini Henry...3 cheers .
Curious your thoughts on this, what would you consider to be the better muzzleloading conversion? the Snider or the US-Trapdoor?
The Snider only because it can handle coiled cartridges better. With drawn cartridge cases, both are about equal.
The real advantage with the 45-70 is the ballistics... much flatter trajectory and therefore longer point blank range. The terminal effects of the 577 Snider are somewhat more fearsome.
The Springfield Trapdoor was a small generation beyond the Snider in being essentially a new build around a more modern 'small bore' .45 bullet and a 1:20 twist to suit. The Snider really was an Enfield rifle musket with a breech loading addition and retaining the infantry 1:78 twist. The subsequent Martini Henry then leap frogged the Springfield. In actions where there were units with Sniders and others with Martini Henrys the higher trajectory and slower loading of the Snider did allow enemies to approach closer to Snider troops but they still stopped them. Personally I would choose the Snider over the Springfield in action.The Metford bullet was far more effective than the Springfield's.
As Kipling wrote:
"A Snider squibbed in the jungle-
Somebody laughed and fled,
And the men of the First Shikaris
Picked up their Subaltern dead,
With a big blue mark in his forehead
And the back blown out of his head".
spot on again Rob. No wonder you were melting....you are used to wearing a kilt in the snow ;-)
All the best from Blighty mate and have a corking 2018
Thanks!
As always an amazing channel 💪
Thanks!
Well done Sir!
Thank you!
Well worth waiting for as usual :-)
Thanks!
Rob that was great. The history on the effectiveness of the Snider's rate of fire was eye opening to say the least. And think of the shear physical weight of the ammunition. Each Snider round would be more that the weight of 5 modern projectiles. And having read some on the effectiveness of the .577 as a military projectile, it was said there was no equal, the original for sure 1 shot drop. I'm not sure the bravery of the men on either side of the line can be understood fully today.
For terminal effects, there can be no equal, I agree. The Snider's weakness was the calibre and the trajectory inherent with it.
britishmuzzleloaders I very much agree, and then came the Martini-Henry. What a piece of kit. I watched Eric on Iraqi8888 just hammer a 30"" gong at 600 yards. With a rifle that is 140+ years old! But the first step was the Snider conversion. What a hammer, it's effectiveness set the bar mighty high for the Martini-Henry. As a learning moment: The British adopted 2 American designs in a row for their service weapons. Alan Snyder was an American, Martini was Swiss but he stole the base design of the Martini-Henry from the Providence Tool Co. /Peabody's design. Granted Martini did improve the action by changing the hammer to a striker fire but that was just the next logical progression of the rifle. Great rifles both!
11:43 The BBC called and they want their Visual Effects department back.
Haha! Someone was collecting a wage that shouldn't have been.... :-)..... I call them "hobby grade" effects... Hope you enjoyed the video!
The main advantage of sniders, it can be shot by prone or kneeling position. So you wouldn't be an easy target for your opponents. Something which hard to do with the muzzle loaders.
No, the main advantage of the Snider was it's rate of fire. Other benefits included lying down etc,...
I have my original Pattern 1853 Enfield right next to me as I watch this...
So exciting!!
Cool!
No I don't. If I did, I'd be shooting it... :-)
A another amazing video keep it up
Cheers.
Another great video sir! And yeah, those rifles are gorgeous!
Thank you!
Your starting with a round loaded made me realize that I have no idea when armies with muzzle loaders would have ordered their men to load - after all, unloading was hardly a simple process if you didn't get a chance to shoot. Was this another advantage of the metallic cartridge?
They would have loaded before going into action, beginning the advance, etc,... yes, there was an "Unload Rifles" used with the Sndier (as later rifles). I'll cover that in the Platoon Exercise video currently in production...
Beautiful rifles, beautiful scenery , fantastic video
Cheers!
new video HUZZAH!!!!!
Hey Rob. In this video, at 3:54 in, you reference a chart. Is there a printable (or purchasable) reference anywhere. Looks like it might make for a fantastic wall poster!?
Stay well.
I found by googling "Snider ammunition" and poking around a bit..
Excellent video, thanks.
Thanks!
25* yikes! your a hardy fellow Rob, and shorts too! Excellent Videography on the firing line also, having a bit of trouble with the shoe on mine, some wear in the hinge pin hole, shimmed it but it doesn't seem to close as easily as yours, I'm looking at maybe finding a replacement shoe, any ideas?
That's Centigrade, don't forget. Maybe needs a stoning on the rear or front face?
John Brown Im not well versed with the specifics of the hinge on tje snider, but thinking from a mechanic's perspective it may work to drill the hole slightly oversize, ream to a precise diameter and press in a bronze or oilite bushing and re-set the hinge pin. Just spitballing here though, no idea how much material is actually there to accommodate this
You may be right, I'll check the oversize wallow and work from there as it's only on the forward end of the hole, I'll try to post pic's of the process as I work on it, Thanks
Magnificent buddy!
Thanks Eric!
britishmuzzleloaders my pleasure brother! Keep up the great work cheers!
Another great video!
Thank!
I have a question. When did hats with the free flowing cloth on them became no longer used or popular in military? I have heard there was a brief period at one point in the past where they were a lot more widely adopted as head gear by of most governments (maybe it was just the western world or in the New World hemisphere), but soon gone away with as soon as it appeared. Is this true or was this a misnomer? I did hear this referenced in a comment online about why there was some forms of media of American Confederate soldiers having a cap with that, you know, "Sheet," design flowing and laying down. It was some outdated military head gear, no body wanted anymore, that was laying around that he decided to wear, since it helped wipe the sweat off his face in the heat. I think the comment mentioned that was the purpose of the sheet. (It had some flaw with it though, that people quickly stopped using them. Whatever issue it had apparently it was not enough to keep coming across people wearing their own unique version of their take on the hat. I think you can find sometimes evidence of world war two Japanese units or one guy having one.)
Couldn’t tell you, sorry..... but it sounds like you are well on your way to the answer.
Thanks Rob! Another well done history lesson, but tell us, all hits below the belt? Was this Cricket ? ; )
Hahaha!
Great film yet again. Fantastic
Glad you enjoyed it.
I noted that you commented on your lube mix in the paper cartridge. Do you Know if there is any Historical mention of changing lube for ammunition destined for different climates?
There were experiments with different mixtures and such. It was found that mixed lube (fat and beeswax) had an adverse effect on the bullets after storage in hot climes. In 1859 they switched to the .55 bullet and that made the adoption of straight beeswax possible.
notification squad reporting
Thank you.
I subscribed at the moment I saw that moustache.
Thank you!
id like to see you do a comparison of the springfield trap door and the snider
One day.....
Pretty cool.Thank you for this.
Thanks
Were there ever an instance where the cap pouch was converted to hold pistol cartridges?
There was not. Pistols were, in the 1860s, the preserve of officers and Lancers (muzzleloading types). Officers bought everything themselves... including equipment.
britishmuzzleloaders Oh.
Top review👍
Great Video as always. That ammo must have cost you a fortune.
It's made by me.... not so much... have you seen the ammo videos on the Channel?
what a change to the battlefield indeed
For sure!
Mein Gott! A new video! stop the world, a gentleman is speaking.
Hope you enjoyed it!
britishmuzzleloaders You can name the difference between 4 types of Enfield rifle but you couldn't name a single one of your videos I don't enjoy.
Awesome
What video editing software do you use?
Thank you. It's just iMovie
Another beauty. Cheers.
Thank you!
Once again.......WELL DONE THAT MAN!
Thank you!
My dad and I have collected Sniders shotguns and rifles for close to 50 years here in the US. Where can I get some more info on them. I think we have 6 or 7 of them. They are very difficult to find state side.
Nice!
2 years later, and I'm now wondering why the choice of the smooth sided projectile in the P53 and the X-ring round in the Snider? Are they not surely almost the same rifle at heart?
Although the rifles were very similar, the projectiles were not. The Service round for the P53 was the smooth sided Pritchett and that for the Snider, was a grooved, hollow based and nosed version at .575 or so. The X Ring round is used as it is groove diameter, and it doesn't have a base plug. Like most breechloaders, it's best that a bullet fills the bore. There is more info in the Snider reloading vids. Cheers.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Many thanks for the detailed explanation.
How does the effective range between the two compare? For the Snider, do escaped gases at the breach affect muzzle velocity and does less barrel length because of the 'shoe' affect accuracy? If you don't know, it might make for an interesting video.
There is no escape of gas from the breech on the Snider... MV is similar. The historic bullets, and charges are very similar.
@@britishmuzzleloaders That was fast. Thank you very much for the reply. I probably ought to go watch the Snider videos again. Cheers!
Dreyse vs Chassepot vs Snider vs Winchester 1866 or Queen Vic vs the competition would be very interesting. But where would you get the Dreyse and the Chassepot?
Yes it would be! I certainly don't have access to them... I'd have to run up a remote colab with someone who does.
I'm curious. Do you know of any attempts to convert the Snider action to either the .577/450 Martini-Henry or .303 British? Hypothetically, could the Snider action be adapted for the .45-70 Government?
There were other similar conversions like the French Tabatier... using it for other newer calibres would be a bit like trying to fit a modern V-8 into a Model T.... I suppose that you could do it, but not really getting what you are looking for....
This action could be adapted to any BLACK powder cartridge. However, like Rob said, be careful what you ask for......................!
Got my Mark 3 in good working condition, just have to locate the pin to hold the locking lever in place, I’m using a cotter pin for now. Also looking at doing some casting instead of purchasing. My barrel seems to be around .595 is it alright to use the X Ring mold that has a .605 minie?
It all be fine. The grooves are .015 at the breech, so nominal bore diameter is over .600. Martyn's bullet will be fine. Some have experienced some difficulty in chambering though I don't know anyone personally in that boat.
I'm looking at a Snider in a local shop. Decent bore, well defined rifling.
Block wobbles a bit and the firing pin sticks way, way out of the block. Tumbler is sluggish but that's a basic lock fix.
Any ideas what's up with the block?
You have an email?
I do. It's in the "about" tab on the Channel page. Try also the Snider-Enfield FB page.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Looked in the About. Will look harder.
Went back and looked at it and got some history on the seller. Low and behold, it's a Frankenstein assembled in Afghanistan for souvenirs for US troops. Belgian barrel, lock plate stamped 1877, wrong or no proofs on the block, firing pin is probably a finishing nail, hammer for a percussion lock, etc.
Your videos got me up to speed enough to immediately spot all and everything that was wrong with it.
I used to be a living historian and they stuck me as a Confederate soldier(most couldn't do the accent so I was stuck with it lol), got to know the P 53, she was a good shooter😊
Nice!
Where did you get your snider and Enfield from?
The internet.
britishmuzzleloaders I wonder if You could advise me; i found a Snider in near immaculate condition yesterday. He wants £700 for it. Is that a bargain or too much?
I haven't the foggiest idea what Sniders are going for in the UK nowadays. It does seem a bit steep as a direct comparison to Canadian prices but that doesn't mean much. Just do a quick search to see what they go for. In the end, it's worth what you are willing to pay for it. Provenance and condition can skew things as well. Sorry I can't be more helpful... I just don't have my finger on the pulse, as it were...
Iv'e looked at more of Your Snider videos. I'm going back tomorrow to have a proper look. It does seam like a good price, thanks.
Have you thought about creating a “Discord” server? It’s a free PC and mobile text and voice chat application. A lot of other people in the genre have done it, including people like Brandon F.
I don't know what that is... to be honest, between the Channel, FB and Patreon, I don't have the time to manage another chat program...
Will we be seeing you on Full30 or just RUclips?
No decision as of yet.
I have a STHLE MKIII* marked 1917 do you know the difference between SMLE and STHLE?
There is no difference... they are the same rifle... the markings on the rifle always say ShtLE (as indeed the previous versions of the Magazine Lee enfield had only LE on the wrist) but the common nomenclature is Short, Magazine, Lee Enfield.
27 degrees Celsius is 80.6 degrees Fahrenheit (aka Freedom Units).
Quite balmy in Canada?
Yes!
Snider. Fine gun. The P53 saw service on both sides of the American Civil War. The bluebellies rated it as good as the M1861 Springfield. The butternuts said it was the best gun in the world.
By the way, good shooting.
Yes it did!
sorry if this seems too personal or out of place but what got you into military history in the first place.
Couldn't tell you... interested since I could read...
What wars were a lot of breech loaders first used in?
That's a hugely vague question.
Cl Cameron may have had his day with Magdala. He met his match in New Zealand. He got His arse handed to him on a plate. Twas Britain's Vietnam.
There certainly was extreme difficulty in that campaign.... The eventual outcome was somewhat different than Vietnam, however...
Can someone tell me what uniform he is wearing? More specifically where I can find that shirt.
It's a Canadian bush jacket from the the 1960s.. Lots of info in the "Kit" series on the Channel.
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks, mate.
I would have thought capping the enfield would be very fiddly under battle conditions, is this so?
No more than any other fine motor skill required in action... that is what drill is for... :-)
Is anyone else just jealous? Beautiful rifles. Beautiful location. Damm this man.
Someone has to do it, no?
Fantastic!
Cheers!
20 hits from standing at 100 yards. Excellent shooting. Standing isn’t easy, especially with those rifles.
Not too difficult. But still have to concentrate...
What uniform is that?
It's not. It's a Canadian bush jacket from the 1950s and a hat from the 1850s.
Sorry I sold my Snyder back in the late 80's It was a nice one.
That's too bad.