yeah guys, let's pretend that Happy completely outmicroing Forti while Forti being able to consistently defeat Happy has nothing to do with the matchup and its balance, Kappa
This reverse-format is hands down my favorite Happy Vs Fortitude series. I usually don't care about Human Vs UD because the matchup is usually all about economy advantage, and the game is usually decided in the first 7 minutes depending on who can secure expansion earlier and/or shut down the other's expansion. You can say that the Orc Vs UD matchup is also one-dimensional in the sense that it's all about heroe levels, but at least watching a high-level DOTA match is more interesting than watching 2 compete over who can expand faster or cancel the other's expansion attempts more times. Watching Lyn and Happy microing heroes against each other at least is always exciting. But this series proves to me *conclusively* that Happy is the better player than Fortitude. Sure he lost the mirror Human match, but that is expected for two reasons: first, obviously this is Forti's best and Happy's weakest, and second because Fortitude is famously a very, veery strong Human mirror player. For instance, Infi in his prime is the greatest WC3 player by far(not even debatable, as Infi went 10-0 Vs Happy in official matchesafter Happy was already World Champion, and beat Lyn 4-0 in several BO7s). And yet, even prime Infi could do no better than going 50/50 Vs Fortitude in mirror. Some players are like that. Likewise, Happy is the better UD player overall compared to 120, but 120 goes 50/50 Vs Happy in mirror because he is just that good. Another example, most people agree that after 2008, Lyn had surpassed Grubby overall for skill, but Grubby still went 50/50 Vs Lyn in mirror until he retired, and famously defeated Lyn 3-0 in 2009 at the World e-Sports Games: e-Stars 2009 King of the Game. Lyn at that point was already considered the best Orc in the World Vs Human and especially Vs Elf(with Grub still being slightly better Vs UD), but there was still that matchup of Orc Vs Orc where Grubby was an absolute killer(and a couple months back, Grub went 3-1 Vs Fly100% on ladder and took 2 maps from Hitman as well) We can see that Happy is clearly the better player of the 2 in the Elf Vs UD matchup. This is a matchup that is clearly imbalanced in favor of UD. Happy defeating Forti here 4-0 as Human playing UD makes it clear that Happy is the better player. But to me, he beating Forti 3-2 playing as Elf is *UNBELIEVABLE* Like this matchup is heavily one-sided in favor of UD and Fortitude g4ot destroyed. Some players are just flat out better. This reminds me of when Lyn defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror right after Colorful had won WGL in 2021.🤣🤣🤣🤣 BTW, *fantastic* casting, Neo. I find the Happy fanboy song cringe-worthy, but you are the best caster of this game.
Forty misplayed badly. He needed to never fight army v army and instead just attack happy’s main. Happy has no mining and only 1 physical base so winning race is easy when u have 2 base mining and 3 physical bases
1. Hu is 7 lvl ahead which is huge 2. Hu is playing seriously while ud is goofing with solo cl mass gargs it’s called gg strat ( ghouls and gargs only it’s challenge from 2011 not a real strat 3. Man you guys hate hu for no reason:)
@@Biobin123 what a bs "forti goofing and happy playing serious". In game 4 and game 5 happy play 1 base and never expand, also never get into 50+ food even while having resources for it - he deliberately play goofy. So you lied again
I agre with you 100%. Happy is overall a better player than Fortitude. Don't get me wrong. Fortitude is a really, really good player, a top 0.04% player and he would beat both you and me in any matchup with one hand tied behind his back. But he is not on Happy's level, and his success against Happy over the past 18 months is mostly due to the patch. I've said it many times before that for *skill* ,the only player on Earth that is truly on Happy's level is Lyn and that's it. Even 120 only beats Happy so much because he is a crazy strong mirror player, but he is overall significantly below Happy in the 3 other matchups. If you put together all 4 matchups, across all maps, only Lyn has demonstrated skills comparable to Happy/s Lyn once famously defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror right after Colorful had won WGL 2021, which is an absolutely insane feat if you think about it.🤣🤣🤣🤣
@ he doesn’t care it’s not a tournament he is having fun. That’s why i believe off race big tournaments would be fun to watch everyone would play their best games
If the undead player for some reason refuses to use coil+nova combo and unholy aura, also doesn't use friends which can burrow in order to micro save them and doesn't use statues which give considerable sustain, then you aren't using the biggest strengths of undead
@garn100 how can any one refuse to use unholy aura since it's passive spell🤔 . The summary 1 undead is so difficult while humans are easy to play 2 Pala rifles is op 3 I can beat ud forti with pala rifles 😂
I think that we should have a tournament called "balance cup" where the players have to play each other's races in addition to the normal matchups. That way there can be no doubt about who is the better player overall, because the supposed imba goes both ways. happy ud vs forti hu, then reversed, until one player has a 1 or 2 game lead.
That won't really prove anything because we don't know amount of dedication each player puts to off races. Ultimately a better prepared player will win.
@@arhael3594 actually, it can prove smth if it organized correctly. Having 3 events switching races: UD to HU, HU to UD, Orc to Elf, Elf to Orc at first; UD to Orc, Orc to UD, HU to Elf, Elf to HU second; UD to Elf, Elf to UD, HU to Orc, Orc to HU third. If mu correlation is higher than player correlatiion its a sign of imbalance in lower-than-tops level. Have to bring strong players for each race for that, and solid prize pool for 3 events, but its possible
They did this in the original show cup that Happy went 50-0 in. No one wants to pay for it cause it’s Happy being even more dominant and then you can even use UD imbal as an excuse.
no “coil nova/ud op” /“i’m tired of seeing happy win”/“boring” balance whine today is so refreshing XD the emperor strikes back with the weapons of his enemies!
Nope he never said it. He even tried to play hu and lost bunch mmr went back to ud. One thing you might not know happy always plays seriously even against low mmr players and for fun matches. If you look forty is goofing going for solo cl with gargs max cleave and etc.
That forth game is some of the best Wc3 I've ever seen. The Zeppelin micro, the Phoenix. My jaw was on the floor. Also I know Neo doesn't appreciate balance discussions, but I think we need to address the elephant in the room. Getting trashed like that is a statement, Humans have an edge over UD in the match up. I think if Human gets a slight nerf, Fortitude will probably not be on such equal footing to Happy anymore.
They traided wins and losses recetnly, but after this game, I think Happy is a way better player. Fortitude seems to excel in current meta - attacking undead mine. Once a good counter is figured out - he will probably start losing again. I think, Happy has better feeling for the whole game and better adaptability. I doubt fenix control and occupying chokepoints behind undead mine is something he really practices. But he did it so well... Amazing game sense and problem solving in real time.
"Not even Azgalor could have won this game." Well, we'll never know... but I'd like to think he would have single-handedly turned the tide. Thumbs up if you still believe.
I hope happy haters and human lovers can appreciate the imbalance in pally riffle and human vs ud rivarly and To any1 really thinking Forti is the better player…. What this guys does vs humans and vs Pally riffle is so RIDICULOS,
The closer we have is the all the random cups with increasing money which Forti Infi and most recently Happy won (when Happy won though it was all Western players and Lawliet)
@ Solo cl mass gargs and ghouls isn’t a real strategy… pali rifles is countered by fl for example he could have gone that it’s counter known for over 14 years
![WC3 | $700 Play all 5 | [UD] Happy vs Fortitude [HU] | Don't Force Me Cup #185](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eh03dn4zf_o/mqdefault.jpg)
![WC3 | $700 Play all 5 | [UD] Happy vs Fortitude [HU] | Don't Force Me Cup #185](/img/tr.png)
![WC3 | WB Final | [UD] Happy vs Life [NE] | B Cup Season 15](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/URY8ti745dM/mqdefault.jpg)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
yeah guys, let's pretend that Happy completely outmicroing Forti while Forti being able to consistently defeat Happy has nothing to do with the matchup and its balance, Kappa
It's confirmed. UD is too weak. Happy won so easily with Human
Fortitude realize he plays Warcraft 3 on easy mode with Human x)
Bro do you see what "strategy" forti played? 😅
This reverse-format is hands down my favorite Happy Vs Fortitude series. I usually don't care about Human Vs UD because the matchup is usually all about economy advantage, and the game is usually decided in the first 7 minutes depending on who can secure expansion earlier and/or shut down the other's expansion. You can say that the Orc Vs UD matchup is also one-dimensional in the sense that it's all about heroe levels, but at least watching a high-level DOTA match is more interesting than watching 2 compete over who can expand faster or cancel the other's expansion attempts more times. Watching Lyn and Happy microing heroes against each other at least is always exciting.
But this series proves to me *conclusively* that Happy is the better player than Fortitude. Sure he lost the mirror Human match, but that is expected for two reasons: first, obviously this is Forti's best and Happy's weakest, and second because Fortitude is famously a very, veery strong Human mirror player. For instance, Infi in his prime is the greatest WC3 player by far(not even debatable, as Infi went 10-0 Vs Happy in official matchesafter Happy was already World Champion, and beat Lyn 4-0 in several BO7s). And yet, even prime Infi could do no better than going 50/50 Vs Fortitude in mirror. Some players are like that. Likewise, Happy is the better UD player overall compared to 120, but 120 goes 50/50 Vs Happy in mirror because he is just that good. Another example, most people agree that after 2008, Lyn had surpassed Grubby overall for skill, but Grubby still went 50/50 Vs Lyn in mirror until he retired, and famously defeated Lyn 3-0 in 2009 at the World e-Sports Games: e-Stars 2009 King of the Game. Lyn at that point was already considered the best Orc in the World Vs Human and especially Vs Elf(with Grub still being slightly better Vs UD), but there was still that matchup of Orc Vs Orc where Grubby was an absolute killer(and a couple months back, Grub went 3-1 Vs Fly100% on ladder and took 2 maps from Hitman as well)
We can see that Happy is clearly the better player of the 2 in the Elf Vs UD matchup. This is a matchup that is clearly imbalanced in favor of UD. Happy defeating Forti here 4-0 as Human playing UD makes it clear that Happy is the better player. But to me, he beating Forti 3-2 playing as Elf is *UNBELIEVABLE* Like this matchup is heavily one-sided in favor of UD and Fortitude g4ot destroyed.
Some players are just flat out better. This reminds me of when Lyn defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror right after Colorful had won WGL in 2021.🤣🤣🤣🤣
BTW, *fantastic* casting, Neo. I find the Happy fanboy song cringe-worthy, but you are the best caster of this game.
That 4th game was one of the coolest games i have ever seen… just wow
1:02:20 UD 50 supply vs Human 28 supply, UD 2 base mining vs Human 0 base income, Human wins.
Forty misplayed badly. He needed to never fight army v army and instead just attack happy’s main. Happy has no mining and only 1 physical base so winning race is easy when u have 2 base mining and 3 physical bases
1. Hu is 7 lvl ahead which is huge
2. Hu is playing seriously while ud is goofing with solo cl mass gargs it’s called gg strat ( ghouls and gargs only it’s challenge from 2011 not a real strat
3. Man you guys hate hu for no reason:)
@@Biobin123 what a bs "forti goofing and happy playing serious". In game 4 and game 5 happy play 1 base and never expand, also never get into 50+ food even while having resources for it - he deliberately play goofy. So you lied again
@@Biobin123 actually in all games
Nerf UD!
double surround with rifles (270ms) vs pitlord and dk with aura (352ms). This is the few levels of difference
yeahp will lol
It looked incredibly cool)
I agre with you 100%. Happy is overall a better player than Fortitude. Don't get me wrong. Fortitude is a really, really good player, a top 0.04% player and he would beat both you and me in any matchup with one hand tied behind his back. But he is not on Happy's level, and his success against Happy over the past 18 months is mostly due to the patch.
I've said it many times before that for *skill* ,the only player on Earth that is truly on Happy's level is Lyn and that's it. Even 120 only beats Happy so much because he is a crazy strong mirror player, but he is overall significantly below Happy in the 3 other matchups.
If you put together all 4 matchups, across all maps, only Lyn has demonstrated skills comparable to Happy/s Lyn once famously defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror right after Colorful had won WGL 2021, which is an absolutely insane feat if you think about it.🤣🤣🤣🤣
thats why Happy is the best
Cause he plays seriously even showmatches ? Forty is goofing or you believe he seriously thinks solo cl with gargs only is best strat? :)
@@Biobin123 forti could add 1 spider with web and won the game
@ he doesn’t care it’s not a tournament he is having fun. That’s why i believe off race big tournaments would be fun to watch everyone would play their best games
you clearly have no idea about the game.
The best...with pala rifle
Honestly, playing humen versus undead seems so easy and simple.
If the undead player for some reason refuses to use coil+nova combo and unholy aura, also doesn't use friends which can burrow in order to micro save them and doesn't use statues which give considerable sustain, then you aren't using the biggest strengths of undead
@garn100 how can any one refuse to use unholy aura since it's passive spell🤔 .
The summary
1 undead is so difficult while humans are easy to play
2 Pala rifles is op
3 I can beat ud forti with pala rifles 😂
All the human players punching the air right now LOL
Game 4 is amazing! At some point it looked like there is absolutely no hope for one of the players, but he turned the tide! Bravo!
Game 4 was absolutely amazing
the 4º game was a masterpiece!
Damn that long game with the pheonix clutch was insane :D
Happy is so fucking good. His understanding of the game is on another level.
I think that we should have a tournament called "balance cup" where the players have to play each other's races in addition to the normal matchups. That way there can be no doubt about who is the better player overall, because the supposed imba goes both ways. happy ud vs forti hu, then reversed, until one player has a 1 or 2 game lead.
That won't really prove anything because we don't know amount of dedication each player puts to off races. Ultimately a better prepared player will win.
@@arhael3594 actually, it can prove smth if it organized correctly. Having 3 events switching races: UD to HU, HU to UD, Orc to Elf, Elf to Orc at first; UD to Orc, Orc to UD, HU to Elf, Elf to HU second; UD to Elf, Elf to UD, HU to Orc, Orc to HU third. If mu correlation is higher than player correlatiion its a sign of imbalance in lower-than-tops level. Have to bring strong players for each race for that, and solid prize pool for 3 events, but its possible
That will only work if there is good prize money. T1 tournament of off race would be great to watch
They did this in the original show cup that Happy went 50-0 in. No one wants to pay for it cause it’s Happy being even more dominant and then you can even use UD imbal as an excuse.
@@horderob2025this assumes that people don't have innate talents or better knowledge of certain match ups. Each race has different play styles
no “coil nova/ud op” /“i’m tired of seeing happy win”/“boring” balance whine today is so refreshing XD the emperor strikes back with the weapons of his enemies!
I think Happy alreadfy said before - Human is the most OP race.
Nope he never said it. He even tried to play hu and lost bunch mmr went back to ud.
One thing you might not know happy always plays seriously even against low mmr players and for fun matches. If you look forty is goofing going for solo cl with gargs max cleave and etc.
@@Biobin123 there are separate mmr for each race/random, he couldn't lose his UD mmr because he went off race
@@ArtemKo___
I never said he lost his ud mmr so i don’t know why you are telling me that… besides he has quite a few accounts
That forth game is some of the best Wc3 I've ever seen. The Zeppelin micro, the Phoenix. My jaw was on the floor. Also I know Neo doesn't appreciate balance discussions, but I think we need to address the elephant in the room. Getting trashed like that is a statement, Humans have an edge over UD in the match up. I think if Human gets a slight nerf, Fortitude will probably not be on such equal footing to Happy anymore.
Which is the OP race now?
Wow. What a double heroe surround in game 1
yeah, this IS the game of the year, for sure. (we are still in january)
oh my god, this is crazy - haha best commentator
1:02:25 - the next minute is just beautiful
That phoenix
human is not imba btw lol
Right, they're just massively better than any other race, not op lol
that fourth game is the best game ever !
Game 4 is insane commando squad againts two bases.
One of Best Games i see inmy Life.
wohaaa...
i didnt expect such outcome)
Incredible Happy match...crazy micro...HAPPY PLZ PLZ PLZ PLAY HUMANS!!
Time traveler moves chair
Timeline:....
Who thinks Happy should try pala rifle vs 120?
Spoiler block
happy's second race is human, what's forty's xp with ud?
happy's weakest offrace is human you want to say? At least were.
youtube video of the year
Fan from NEPAL ❤ HAPPY The GODLIKE
Oh my gosh happy dam, god like😂
Mass bases was good
Gargs were good
But forti should have harrassed more, going for base raze with half his troops
Good to know
Game of the year 😊
Must Watch label 😊
Game of the year for sure. I watch and love war3 since 2003, and i think that nothing can suprise me. Viva Happy
Hi all!
Haaaaapppppyyyy theeee Goooood
Why do need eco when you can farm your oponent . And there is still people which not admit why he called the emperor.
They traided wins and losses recetnly, but after this game, I think Happy is a way better player. Fortitude seems to excel in current meta - attacking undead mine. Once a good counter is figured out - he will probably start losing again. I think, Happy has better feeling for the whole game and better adaptability. I doubt fenix control and occupying chokepoints behind undead mine is something he really practices. But he did it so well... Amazing game sense and problem solving in real time.
that first match was will lol...
Happy, what a God!
I was thinking thay happy would play palladium and naga second but the other one works so good too stealing mana
thorzain would be proud of happy...... no wait...
haha
1:03:00 what a beaty
Does it mean that Happy is the best human player?
He is not a human being 😂
wtf i just see with that phoenix
"Not even Azgalor could have won this game." Well, we'll never know... but I'd like to think he would have single-handedly turned the tide. Thumbs up if you still believe.
Yes in any other matchup, not against blood mage
But but but…… coilnova op, ted fiends =gg ,ud wins easy 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺how is this possible 😂😂😂😂😂
Happyveli the Don
Happy can teach 40 to play pala rifle
Yess!
gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
♥ Best Game ♥ :D
I hope happy haters and human lovers can appreciate the imbalance in pally riffle and human vs ud rivarly and To any1 really thinking Forti is the better player…. What this guys does vs humans and vs Pally riffle is so RIDICULOS,
We need off race t1 tournaments where all players play off race but have big motivation to win ( high prize money). So everyone plays their A game
The closer we have is the all the random cups with increasing money which Forti Infi and most recently Happy won (when Happy won though it was all Western players and Lawliet)
nice game . like from Spb)))
People trying to draw balance conclusions from this match have collectively the same IQ as a flat earther lmao
Or rather, people who can't see the obvious implication of the result, have the same level of ignorance as a flat earther.
Forti needs more UD practice 😂
Forti is genius
It's Happy who is playing the Human here
@@Akram-101.0 we know still forty won while goofing vs serious happy 1 game showing how easy it’s to counter pali rifle
@@Biobin123 I don't see how forti was goofing, but I agree pala rifle did make him look helpless while trying to counter it.
How do you know that happy was serious, you wher their with him ?@Biobin123
@
Solo cl mass gargs and ghouls isn’t a real strategy… pali rifles is countered by fl for example he could have gone that it’s counter known for over 14 years