25 yrs ago when i was a soldier went to Messene to put out a fire and stayed there for +2 days . The ruins of the ancient city are far and wide , i couldnt believe that there was once such a big city .
I have traveled to Greece many times. Sparta today is a very lovely small city. The Peloponnese region has many historical areas. I urge people to visit.
Sparta today was a new development built in the 1830s. The original city is north of modern Sparta and had long since become an empty husk as the political center of Laconia moved to Mystras. IE: that Sparta isn’t Sparta proper. The real Sparta is a ruin.
@@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes Aren't most cities like that though? And even if Sparta was continuously inhabited by people from then until now it would have been a completely different city than the one it was at ancient times sense Spartans were more practical people than for example the Athenians and didn't build any major monument like the Parthenon that would have survived until the modern era.
There used to be a legendary landrace marijuana strain from the same region said to have a super trippy stone and red colouration, but I've heard that crackdowns in enforcement over the years and rural blight have all but lead to its extinction
hey Ron would u know what time of year greece would have weather n temperatures like the southern california "coast"....like cali in late October- april? the cali coast weather is keeping me alive.....there's always channel islands n dasani water etc.
@@starman1144 Spartans not building monumental buildings didn't have anything to do with practical thinking but with being poor and disinterest of elite to engage in these works of art
One of the best moments in the history of Ancient Greece was in 369 when the Theban general Epaminondas invaded the Peloponnese and helped to free the Helots of Messene and re-established the Messene state and helped to build the fortress city of Messene around Mt. Ithome. To guard Messene from ever being enslaved again. At the same time Epaminondas called for the descendants of Messenian exiles to return to Messene. All Spartan efforts to conquer and re-enslave The Messenians failed and more than 3+ centuries of subjugation were ended and after at least 3 lost wars to Sparta Messene was free. I should point out that it is commonly thought Epaminondas liberated Messene, it appears that actually shortly after the disastrous Spartan defeat at Leuktra the Helots of Messene revolted so by the time Epaminondas invaded another Messenian war was on; what Epaminondas did was to complete the process and aid in the building of the city of Messene and setting up the re-founded state.
@@HistorywithCy love to here it!! I’ve actually just started reading Donald Kagan’s one volume history on the peloponnesian war! Excited for that! But also loving the videos on these less covered wars in Greek history. Keep it up man
Yeah Kagan's book, the Landmark Thucydides and a couple of Paul Rahe's books are the main sources I'll be using. I should have it out in the next 48 hours, stay tuned and thanks for taking interest in this stuff!
Good video. It reminds me of the novel "Spartan" by Valerio Massimo Manfredi, the story of a warrior named Talos. Talos is born into a family of the Spartan warrior nobility, but he is crippled and so he is abandoned as a baby on mount Taygetus. A helot shepherd saves him, raises him as his own son and Talos becomes a rebel, fighting against Sparta to free the enslaved Messenians. The history of Sparta is a cautionary tale against the dangers of obsession and narrow-mindedness. The Spartans were good at war, but they weren't good at anything else. They were doomed to extinction, like the dinosaurs or the mammoths, as soon as the "environment" where they thrived disappeared. One day you could make a video about Sparta under Roman rule. It would be really funny.
Actually Sparta lasted well into the Roman empire days. They never really bent the knee to Philip or Alexander. They were no more doomed than any other Greek city state
@@alessandrodelogu7931 And all Greece bent the knee to Macedon... with one exception, Sparta. They were warned...then threatened and they dared Macedon to move. Sparta had no walls...and yet and Still...Macedon did not attack...neither did any Greek city. That's why they became a tourist attraction...the Roman's had Major Respect.
@@bigalsnow8199 Philip and Alexander judged that they were so irrelevant that they were ignored- a dangerous thorn in worthless bush. Why such love a society that murdered their slaves for sport?
Slaves??? Actually the article just explained how they became Slaves. They lost a war. In those days everyone knew that if you chose to go to war and lost...you might become Slaves forever. They made the choice. What was it that the Macedonian general said to Sparta? Oh yeah..." if we are forced to go into your city, and if you fight and lose...your children will become Slaves forever.. What was Spartas answer? Oh yeah. They gave a one word answer..." IF"... The general walked his army home.
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but make sure that from now on your guests have decent mics. I had to turn my phone's speaker volume all the way to max just to hear him. The dude also has a weird way of talking, which made listening to him all the more awkward. Why even have a guest speaker at all? Just present the info yourself.
He’s trying to support a fellow content creator. What’s wrong with that? Also everyone has their own accents and they can’t do anything about and even if they can they probably like it or they wouldn’t be speaking in it.
Would you consider covering Alexander and the aftermath? Like Gaugamela, mysterious death and body snatching, Wars of the Diadochi, Seleucids, Ptolemy, story of Zenobia et al?? 💕💕💕Love your work 💕💕💕
Actually, it's all coming up. Don't know if I'll get to Zenobia but hope to get into the other topics you mentioned after I do some stuff on the Peloponnesian War. Stay tuned and thanks for the suggestions!
Thank you for your video! Excellent work! The Messenian Wars are usually the first story that greek children learn. Also, by time, you learn that Athens and Sparta were not major powerhouses not even during the Peloponnesian War... Instead, they mastered the art of propaganda in order to inspire fear to their "allies" and mainly to their slave populations. Before Macedon of course, the "big bad wolf" was always Thessaly and you can easily see that by counting the representatives who voted in the Delphic Amphictyony.
Thanks! Yeah, slowly branching out. I always planned on covering other areas in more depth, just never got around to it. This year though you'll see a lot of new topics for the channel... more Greek/Hellenistic kingdoms, early Roman, Parthian and more of the Mediterranean, plus in depth coverage on topics related to the Achaemenids and the Bronze Age, the latter which I'll constantly be revisiting. Stay tuned and for watching, really appreciate it!
Thanks! I hope to this summer, yes though I have half a script on pre-Inca South America that I might release before then. Stay tuned and thanks for watching!
Without an understanding of plate tectonics, sizeable earthquakes, that killed many, really must've seemed like the wrath of gods. I can't begin to imagine!
The saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" didn't work very well this time. Sparta had no friends and kept their enemies too close. Sparta had allies but that isn't friendship.
🇬🇷The name given in Western languages to the most strictly peninsular part of the current Balkan Peninsula derives from the denomination of Graeci, under which the Romans (like the Italics in general) knew its inhabitants in historical times. The origin of this ethnic group is not entirely sure, some connecting it, on the basis of a passage of Aristotle that reflects ancient etymologies, with the supposed Γραικοί inhabitants in the surroundings of Dodona in Epirus, others with the inhabitants of Γραῖα, name of two towns , in Boeotia and Euboea. Entirely distinct is the name of Hellas (‛Ελλάς, ethnic" Ελληνες) with which the ancient Greeks called their homeland, and which, at first specific to a small region of Thessaly, then extended in degrees, some of which can be found ( Hellas and Argos, in the Odyssey), to the whole peninsula inhabited in ancient times by the Greeks. The two names Hellas and Greece thus coexisted throughout ancient times, one in indigenous usage, the other in Latin, except the official name of Greece when it became a Roman province, which was Achaea. Then the second was maintained geographically and culturally throughout the Western Middle Ages, and is still in force today in the languages that drew it from Latin (Grèce, Griechenland, Greece). darkened and decayed with the extinction of ancient civilization, replaced in places by Romania, which reflects the Roman imperial continuity in the Byzantine denominations; the name of Ρωμαῖοι in Byzantium itself, Rūm in the Muslim Near East, united the Byzantines all , and the inhabitants of the land that once belonged to the Hellenes. The ancient glorious name rose again with the rise to freedom and state unity of the neo-Greek nation, which as a symbol of alleged traditional and ethnic continuity took the official name of ‛Ελλάς and the ethnic name of" Ελληνες; renewing, with a geographically expanded content after the Balkan wars and ethnically very complex and modified for centuries, the ancient indigenous denominations.
"The Names Roman, Hellen, and Graikos in the Middle Byzantine Period" "This paper examines the collective identity of the Byzantines through the scholarly literature of the Middle Period on the basis of the collective nouns nation (ethnos), natio (genos), race (fylon-fyli) and the comprehensive main names Roman, He!len, Graecos. For the former, it is noted that they refer to population groups whose members have common features or a common reference point , eg. common descent from a place or an ancestor. The term "nation" is of particular interest, because in modern times it has political connotations, as it is used to denote peoples who haνe political consciousness. The word, while long standing in the sources, as it is mentioned already in the Homeric poetry, lacks political connotations in the Byzantine sources, These are traced mainly in the name Roman, while the name Hellen bears, primarily cultural load. The name Graecos serves as a synonym of Hellen, as it refers to the Greek language and Greek culture. After the schism of 1054, it denotes the Greek and Greek-speaking Orthodox Christian, in particular. These three terms, these three names, however by the end of the Middle Byzantine period represent a single set of distinct but inseparable components, which after a long process END UP BEING MUTUALLY DETERMINED." Theodora Papadopolou, pp.101, [Hellene, Romios, Greek: Collective Identifications and Identities]” Eurasia Publications, 2018
"The present paper presents my ongoing research on this subject based on detailed examination of the concept of Greek self-identification through the evidence provided by Greek books of various texts published until 1821, and other primary sources. More than 700 books have been examined. Approximately half of these provide us with useful information about the way individual and collective identity was defined. The research examines the use of the terms Έλλην (Hellene), Γραικός (Greek), and Ρωμαίος (Roman), Ελλάς (Hellas) and πατρίς (homeland), which under certain circumstances may or may not have a slightly different connotation throughout these four hundred years. For obvious reasons this paper presents only the quantitative results without entering into an extensive theoretical discussion. The sources show that the word Ελλάς is used both as a narrow and wider geographical term, but mostly in the much broader sense, as a synonym of πατρίς, the homeland of all Greeks, regardless of whether they were resident in Greece, in other places of the Ottoman empire, in the Venetian state, or wherever else in Europe. Πατρίς is also used in the same way. It signifies either the geographical region where persons were born and raised, or their homeland (that is Ελλάς) in general. The details presented in the paper show that "Έλλην" (Hellene) may have been the most frequently used term of self-identification during the second half of the 18th and early 19th century, but that equally applies to all periods from the mid 15th century onwards, with the references of Έλλην encountered in the sources BEING DOUBLE OR TRIPLE that of Γραικός or Ρωμαίος More specifically in the period examined, that is from the mid of the 15th century to the end of the 16th, in 63 texts we have 96 references to Έλληνες (in the sense of modern Greeks) and the derivatives of the word (as Έλληνικóv), 34 to Γραικοί and only 9 to Ρωμαίοι. In the 17th century, we encounter 102 references to Έλληνες , 43 to Γραικοί and 56 to Ρωμαίοι, which is a substantial increase in the use of the term. Finally, in the 18th century and the first 20 years of the 19th, in 175 texts there were 617 references to Έλληνες, 204 to Γραικοί and 133 to Ρωμαίοι. It is also clear in the examined texts that, despite personal preferences, both clerics and laymen had no problem in using the term Έλλην. In fact, we often see the three terms used by the same person within the same text, or, alternatively, in different texts, AS SYNONYMS. Even when there was a noticeable unwillingness of someone to call the modern Greeks ΄Ελληνες, there was a clear understanding that they were descendants of the ancient Greeks, even though they did not share the same religion. The sense of national identity, therefore, long pre-existed the period of the modern Greek Enlightenment and was not established through its influence." Eleni Aggelomati Tsougkaraki, pp 264-265, (2018) [Hellene, Romios, Greek: Collective Identifications and Identities]” Eurasia Publications.
@@vandare6913 This is that glorious information I so long to find, to hear what native populous called themselves in their own native tongue. I am on a quest to find the original people of the (homeland) as described, at the very beginnings of the peoples that would eventually be known as "Greek". In my limited and humbly base opportunity as a curious American, I have yet to find such an explanation as thorough and cited as your response. I am also running the written terms through translate, to at a minimum, simulate some concept of pronunciation. Incredibly absolutely fascinating! THANK YOU!
Really, whats with the Uploads of things at least RELATED to stuff Ive been thinking about. First it was a Video about Gudea a few days after I was thinking about him, then when I've been watching Yale Lectures on RUclips about Ancient Greece starting with their Prehistory and the Mycenean's? a video about Sparta revolving around the 'Dark Ages'
Sparta did nothing at Marathon and the battle of the 300 was brave but really had no bearing on the defeat of the Persians in that war. The Athenians are the reason Greece withstood both attacks.
The decline in birth rate doesn't surprise me from what I have heard. When very young I began learning about Greek society from my father, - who was a most devoted student of ancient history. His over-riding passion however were the Romans. That within Greek society, the role of all men was the militia and over-riding devotion to the state. It's training, indoctrination, and life-long devotion to it earned Greece and most especially Sparta the fierce reputation and success so respected and feared throughout the known world. This obviously came at a huge cost. One most notably to the idea of family. I was told that intercourse with women was more of an obligation or duty. It's practice as one of sex was always and routinely among the ranks. It was expected and encouraged. This was thought to create a bonding and a camaraderie that would make a superior fighting unit. Sex with women was seen merely as a necessary procreative function. I don't know what if this may be true, but it would explain the birth-rate problem. This if true must have greatly strained a social structure so removed from otherwise normal and necessary development. How in this way did it last as long as it did ? Military life, it's meaning, goals, and expectations began for boys at a very young age, and basically lasted a lifetime.
@@avet4521 their impact? You mean like practicing infanticide, enforced homosexuality, slavery of fellow Greeks and collaborating with the Persians? It’s very telling that both Philip II and his son Alexander had nothing but contempt for the Spartans.
@@nomanor7987 How about governing. They created the Republic, in fact America's government was based off the Spartan model. (Edited to resolve spelling error)
@@avet4521 the republic comes from Res Publica from Ancient Rome, not Sparta. Sparta was a monarchy, not a republic… in fact it had not one, but two Kings.
@@nomanor7987 I'm sorry, but no that's not correct. Yes Rome did have a Republic, for a while. And yes Sparta did have 2 kings, however America's government model isn't based on the Roman model, it's based off Sparta. Checks and balances comes from Sparta, citizen first, politician 2nd, these are Spartan contributions. Look deeper than sources who hate Sparta if you want to have a hope of understanding Sparta.
I'm disappointed in this video which does a lot to whitewash the vicious treatment that Messinia suffered under Spartan rule. The Helots were not serfs, they were slaves and the Spartans had a dedicated eugenics program designed to kill any helot that seemed "too strong". Graduating to becoming a Spartiate involved literally hunting down and killing a Helot in the night. Sparta had an entire caste of non-citizens built out of the offspring of the Helot women they had raped. To downplay all of this while talking of the conflict between Messinia and Sparta and to likewise handwave the war that finally broke them free from Sparta is disappointing to see from a channel that usually does so much better.
@@HistorywithCy Fair enough! And looking at said video I even made a comment there praising you for talking about it. While I still feel an aside to talk about what Sparta did to the Helots would still be worth doing I take back my previous comment. Thank you.
He refers to them as state owned slaves. I think that's sufficient. The video can't focus on every aspect of history, it has to cut some things. It doesn't have time to go into detail about all that.
25 yrs ago when i was a soldier went to Messene to put out a fire and stayed there for +2 days . The ruins of the ancient city are far and wide , i couldnt believe that there was once such a big city .
It must be something truly wonderful to see.. very thought provoking i'm sure.
So nice to see videos that go outside the classical period of Greek history. Thank you!
My pleasure, thanks for watching and more on the way, stay tuned!
I have traveled to Greece many times. Sparta today is a very lovely small city. The Peloponnese region has many historical areas. I urge people to visit.
Sparta today was a new development built in the 1830s. The original city is north of modern Sparta and had long since become an empty husk as the political center of Laconia moved to Mystras. IE: that Sparta isn’t Sparta proper. The real Sparta is a ruin.
@@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes Aren't most cities like that though? And even if Sparta was continuously inhabited by people from then until now it would have been a completely different city than the one it was at ancient times sense Spartans were more practical people than for example the Athenians and didn't build any major monument like the Parthenon that would have survived until the modern era.
There used to be a legendary landrace marijuana strain from the same region said to have a super trippy stone and red colouration, but I've heard that crackdowns in enforcement over the years and rural blight have all but lead to its extinction
hey Ron would u know what time of year greece would have weather n temperatures like the southern california "coast"....like cali in late October- april? the cali coast weather is keeping me alive.....there's always channel islands n dasani water etc.
@@starman1144 Spartans not building monumental buildings didn't have anything to do with practical thinking but with being poor and disinterest of elite to engage in these works of art
History with Cy: the joy of my week! Thanks for posting!
You're welcome, thanks for watching! More on the way, stay tuned!
One of the best moments in the history of Ancient Greece was in 369 when the Theban general Epaminondas invaded the Peloponnese and helped to free the Helots of Messene and re-established the Messene state and helped to build the fortress city of Messene around Mt. Ithome. To guard Messene from ever being enslaved again. At the same time Epaminondas called for the descendants of Messenian exiles to return to Messene. All Spartan efforts to conquer and re-enslave The Messenians failed and more than 3+ centuries of subjugation were ended and after at least 3 lost wars to Sparta Messene was free.
I should point out that it is commonly thought Epaminondas liberated Messene, it appears that actually shortly after the disastrous Spartan defeat at Leuktra the Helots of Messene revolted so by the time Epaminondas invaded another Messenian war was on; what Epaminondas did was to complete the process and aid in the building of the city of Messene and setting up the re-founded state.
WanaxTV sounds like a vampire overdosing on Xanax
Oh special guest, I spent far too long checking my sound settings.
Always wanted to know more about these wars
Thanks for watching, more smaller conflicts to come along with a large one - Peloponnesian War - to come!
@@HistorywithCy love to here it!! I’ve actually just started reading Donald Kagan’s one volume history on the peloponnesian war! Excited for that! But also loving the videos on these less covered wars in Greek history. Keep it up man
Yeah Kagan's book, the Landmark Thucydides and a couple of Paul Rahe's books are the main sources I'll be using. I should have it out in the next 48 hours, stay tuned and thanks for taking interest in this stuff!
Thanks Cy. Nicely done. Deeper info on ancient Sparta's beginnings and development than usual.
thank you for Greece, amazing video !!!❤❤❤
Loving the content my friend. Thank you again 🙂
No problem, thanks for watching! Lot's more on the way, stay tuned!
Good video. It reminds me of the novel "Spartan" by Valerio Massimo Manfredi, the story of a warrior named Talos. Talos is born into a family of the Spartan warrior nobility, but he is crippled and so he is abandoned as a baby on mount Taygetus. A helot shepherd saves him, raises him as his own son and Talos becomes a rebel, fighting against Sparta to free the enslaved Messenians.
The history of Sparta is a cautionary tale against the dangers of obsession and narrow-mindedness. The Spartans were good at war, but they weren't good at anything else. They were doomed to extinction, like the dinosaurs or the mammoths, as soon as the "environment" where they thrived disappeared. One day you could make a video about Sparta under Roman rule. It would be really funny.
Actually Sparta lasted well into the Roman empire days. They never really bent the knee to Philip or Alexander. They were no more doomed than any other Greek city state
@@bigalsnow8199 they became a tourist attraction for Roman travellers.
@@alessandrodelogu7931
And all Greece bent the knee to Macedon... with one exception, Sparta. They were warned...then threatened and they dared Macedon to move. Sparta had no walls...and yet and Still...Macedon did not attack...neither did any Greek city.
That's why they became a tourist attraction...the Roman's had Major Respect.
@@bigalsnow8199 Philip and Alexander judged that they were so irrelevant that they were ignored- a dangerous thorn in worthless bush. Why such love a society that murdered their slaves for sport?
Slaves??? Actually the article just explained how they became Slaves. They lost a war. In those days everyone knew that if you chose to go to war and lost...you might become Slaves forever. They made the choice.
What was it that the Macedonian general said to Sparta? Oh yeah..." if we are forced to go into your city, and if you fight and lose...your children will become Slaves forever..
What was Spartas answer? Oh yeah. They gave a one word answer..." IF"...
The general walked his army home.
Wanax has a similar inflection to the Count from Sesame Street
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but make sure that from now on your guests have decent mics. I had to turn my phone's speaker volume all the way to max just to hear him. The dude also has a weird way of talking, which made listening to him all the more awkward. Why even have a guest speaker at all? Just present the info yourself.
The guest's mic didn't bother me personally, but the way he was speaking clashed with the bgm.
he does have a strange diction and i cannot tell if it's an accent of if it's something he forced on himself.
He’s trying to support a fellow content creator. What’s wrong with that? Also everyone has their own accents and they can’t do anything about and even if they can they probably like it or they wouldn’t be speaking in it.
This one was great! A lot of interesting information, about a fairly uncommon topic. Lovely work Cy!
Would you consider covering Alexander and the aftermath? Like Gaugamela, mysterious death and body snatching, Wars of the Diadochi, Seleucids, Ptolemy, story of Zenobia et al?? 💕💕💕Love your work 💕💕💕
Actually, it's all coming up. Don't know if I'll get to Zenobia but hope to get into the other topics you mentioned after I do some stuff on the Peloponnesian War. Stay tuned and thanks for the suggestions!
@@HistorywithCy Wonderful 👏 (I always have to throw Zenobia in with hope someone will someday cover her story properly 😉). Look forward to the rest 🙏💕
@@buttercxpdraws8101 Thank you!
thank you for making these! love them so much!
Good video Cy. Thanks again! 😄
This was awesome! Fascinating!! Thank you 🙏 🙏🙏
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it and more on the way!
Thank you for your video! Excellent work! The Messenian Wars are usually the first story that greek children learn. Also, by time, you learn that Athens and Sparta were not major powerhouses not even during the Peloponnesian War... Instead, they mastered the art of propaganda in order to inspire fear to their "allies" and mainly to their slave populations. Before Macedon of course, the "big bad wolf" was always Thessaly and you can easily see that by counting the representatives who voted in the Delphic Amphictyony.
Thanks for yet another excellent History lesson!
My pleasure, thanks for watching! More on the way, stay tuned!
I'm only seeing this in May but I'm guessing it was the Halloween Special and thats why your friend is doing the spooky ghost voice?
Who is the narrator on this video? Dracula? 😂
Good stuff, Cy! Kind of feels odd to see you branch out into Greek history!😂 But I like it.👍
Thanks! Yeah, slowly branching out. I always planned on covering other areas in more depth, just never got around to it. This year though you'll see a lot of new topics for the channel... more Greek/Hellenistic kingdoms, early Roman, Parthian and more of the Mediterranean, plus in depth coverage on topics related to the Achaemenids and the Bronze Age, the latter which I'll constantly be revisiting. Stay tuned and for watching, really appreciate it!
Great vid. I love ancient Greece history
👍👍👍Great vid, as always😃... when will you take us back to meso America??
Thanks! I hope to this summer, yes though I have half a script on pre-Inca South America that I might release before then. Stay tuned and thanks for watching!
Namaste🙏 have a good day😊
I must say your videos are really useful for video game development.
✅✅✅✅✅✅✅
Brilliant!
Thank you!
Without an understanding of plate tectonics, sizeable earthquakes, that killed many, really must've seemed like the wrath of gods. I can't begin to imagine!
Very nice video
Thanks!
The saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" didn't work very well this time. Sparta had no friends and kept their enemies too close. Sparta had allies but that isn't friendship.
More bronze age please
Will do!
Great collab! I love your of your channels!
Please do a video about Dacians
Thank you..
You're welcome!
🇬🇷The name given in Western languages to the most strictly peninsular part of the current Balkan Peninsula derives from the denomination of Graeci, under which the Romans (like the Italics in general) knew its inhabitants in historical times. The origin of this ethnic group is not entirely sure, some connecting it, on the basis of a passage of Aristotle that reflects ancient etymologies, with the supposed Γραικοί inhabitants in the surroundings of Dodona in Epirus, others with the inhabitants of Γραῖα, name of two towns , in Boeotia and Euboea. Entirely distinct is the name of Hellas (‛Ελλάς, ethnic" Ελληνες) with which the ancient Greeks called their homeland, and which, at first specific to a small region of Thessaly, then extended in degrees, some of which can be found ( Hellas and Argos, in the Odyssey), to the whole peninsula inhabited in ancient times by the Greeks. The two names Hellas and Greece thus coexisted throughout ancient times, one in indigenous usage, the other in Latin, except the official name of Greece when it became a Roman province, which was Achaea. Then the second was maintained geographically and culturally throughout the Western Middle Ages, and is still in force today in the languages that drew it from Latin (Grèce, Griechenland, Greece). darkened and decayed with the extinction of ancient civilization, replaced in places by Romania, which reflects the Roman imperial continuity in the Byzantine denominations; the name of Ρωμαῖοι in Byzantium itself, Rūm in the Muslim Near East, united the Byzantines all , and the inhabitants of the land that once belonged to the Hellenes. The ancient glorious name rose again with the rise to freedom and state unity of the neo-Greek nation, which as a symbol of alleged traditional and ethnic continuity took the official name of ‛Ελλάς and the ethnic name of" Ελληνες; renewing, with a geographically expanded content after the Balkan wars and ethnically very complex and modified for centuries, the ancient indigenous denominations.
"The Names Roman, Hellen, and Graikos in the Middle Byzantine Period"
"This paper examines the collective identity of the Byzantines through the scholarly literature of the Middle Period on the basis of the collective nouns nation (ethnos), natio (genos), race (fylon-fyli) and the comprehensive main names Roman, He!len, Graecos. For the former, it is noted that they refer to population groups whose members have common features or a common reference point , eg. common descent from a place or an ancestor. The term "nation" is of particular interest, because in modern times it has political connotations, as it is used to denote peoples who haνe political consciousness. The word, while long standing in the sources, as it is mentioned already in the Homeric poetry, lacks political connotations in the Byzantine sources, These are traced mainly in the name Roman, while the name Hellen bears, primarily cultural load. The name Graecos serves as a synonym of Hellen, as it refers to the Greek language and Greek culture. After the schism of 1054, it denotes the Greek and Greek-speaking Orthodox Christian, in particular. These three terms, these three names, however by the end of the Middle Byzantine period represent a single set of distinct but inseparable components, which after a long process END UP BEING MUTUALLY DETERMINED."
Theodora Papadopolou, pp.101, [Hellene, Romios, Greek: Collective Identifications and Identities]” Eurasia Publications, 2018
"The present paper presents my ongoing research on this subject based on detailed examination of the concept of Greek self-identification through the evidence provided by Greek books of various texts published until 1821, and other primary sources. More than 700 books have been examined. Approximately half of these provide us with useful information about the way individual and collective identity was defined. The research examines the use of the terms Έλλην (Hellene), Γραικός (Greek), and Ρωμαίος (Roman), Ελλάς (Hellas) and πατρίς (homeland), which under certain circumstances may or may not have a slightly different connotation throughout these four hundred years. For obvious reasons this paper presents only the quantitative results without entering into an extensive theoretical discussion. The sources show that the word Ελλάς is used both as a narrow and wider geographical term, but mostly in the much broader sense, as a synonym of πατρίς, the homeland of all Greeks, regardless of whether they were resident in Greece, in other places of the Ottoman empire, in the Venetian state, or wherever else in Europe. Πατρίς is also used in the same way. It signifies either the geographical region where persons were born and raised, or their homeland (that is Ελλάς) in general.
The details presented in the paper show that "Έλλην" (Hellene) may have been the most frequently used term of self-identification during the second half of the 18th and early 19th century, but that equally applies to all periods from the mid 15th century onwards, with the references of Έλλην encountered in the sources BEING DOUBLE OR TRIPLE that of Γραικός or Ρωμαίος
More specifically in the period examined, that is from the mid of the 15th century to the end of the 16th, in 63 texts we have 96 references to Έλληνες (in the sense of modern Greeks) and the derivatives of the word (as Έλληνικóv), 34 to Γραικοί and only 9 to Ρωμαίοι. In the 17th century, we encounter 102 references to Έλληνες , 43 to Γραικοί and 56 to Ρωμαίοι, which is a substantial increase in the use of the term. Finally, in the 18th century and the first 20 years of the 19th, in 175 texts there were 617 references to Έλληνες, 204 to Γραικοί and 133 to Ρωμαίοι.
It is also clear in the examined texts that, despite personal preferences, both clerics and laymen had no problem in using the term Έλλην. In fact, we often see the three terms used by the same person within the same text, or, alternatively, in different texts, AS SYNONYMS. Even when there was a noticeable unwillingness of someone to call the modern Greeks ΄Ελληνες, there was a clear understanding that they were descendants of the ancient Greeks, even though they did not share the same religion. The sense of national identity, therefore, long pre-existed the period of the modern Greek Enlightenment and was not established through its influence."
Eleni Aggelomati Tsougkaraki, pp 264-265, (2018) [Hellene, Romios, Greek: Collective Identifications and Identities]” Eurasia Publications.
@@vandare6913 This is that glorious information I so long to find, to hear what native populous called themselves in their own native tongue. I am on a quest to find the original people of the (homeland) as described, at the very beginnings of the peoples that would eventually be known as "Greek". In my limited and humbly base opportunity as a curious American, I have yet to find such an explanation as thorough and cited as your response. I am also running the written terms through translate, to at a minimum, simulate some concept of pronunciation. Incredibly absolutely fascinating! THANK YOU!
If only the Spartans gave citizenship to the Perioikoi
Really, whats with the Uploads of things at least RELATED to stuff Ive been thinking about. First it was a Video about Gudea a few days after I was thinking about him, then when I've been watching Yale Lectures on RUclips about Ancient Greece starting with their Prehistory and the Mycenean's? a video about Sparta revolving around the 'Dark Ages'
Sparta did nothing at Marathon and the battle of the 300 was brave but really had no bearing on the defeat of the Persians in that war. The Athenians are the reason Greece withstood both attacks.
Ah, one of a few times the Spartans ever did anything for all time
Why is WanaxTV talking like that??
The decline in birth rate doesn't surprise me from what I have heard.
When very young I began learning about Greek society from my father, - who was a most devoted student of ancient history.
His over-riding passion however were the Romans.
That within Greek society, the role of all men was the militia and over-riding devotion to the state. It's training, indoctrination, and life-long devotion to it earned Greece and most especially Sparta the fierce reputation and success so respected and feared throughout the known world.
This obviously came at a huge cost. One most notably to the idea of family.
I was told that intercourse with women was more of an obligation or duty.
It's practice as one of sex was always and routinely among the ranks. It was expected and encouraged.
This was thought to create a bonding and a camaraderie that would make a superior fighting unit.
Sex with women was seen merely as a necessary procreative function.
I don't know what if this may be true, but it would explain the birth-rate problem.
This if true must have greatly strained a social structure so removed from otherwise normal and necessary development.
How in this way did it last as long as it did ?
Military life, it's meaning,
goals, and expectations began for boys at a very young age, and basically lasted a lifetime.
Maybe the Spartans, werent the good guys in 300, afterall.
👍
Sparta: This is SPARTA!
Several hundred years later...
Roman Empire: Hello? Sparta!
Sorry but that wanax guy made the video so much worse. Dragging out word makes makes it so boring to listen to him .
Spartans were extremely based
The Spartans are the most overrated nation in history.
Perhaps you should consider looking closer into the Spartans, and their impact on history before making that statement.
@@avet4521 their impact? You mean like practicing infanticide, enforced homosexuality, slavery of fellow Greeks and collaborating with the Persians? It’s very telling that both Philip II and his son Alexander had nothing but contempt for the Spartans.
@@nomanor7987 How about governing. They created the Republic, in fact America's government was based off the Spartan model. (Edited to resolve spelling error)
@@avet4521 the republic comes from Res Publica from Ancient Rome, not Sparta. Sparta was a monarchy, not a republic… in fact it had not one, but two Kings.
@@nomanor7987 I'm sorry, but no that's not correct. Yes Rome did have a Republic, for a while. And yes Sparta did have 2 kings, however America's government model isn't based on the Roman model, it's based off Sparta. Checks and balances comes from Sparta, citizen first, politician 2nd, these are Spartan contributions. Look deeper than sources who hate Sparta if you want to have a hope of understanding Sparta.
I'm disappointed in this video which does a lot to whitewash the vicious treatment that Messinia suffered under Spartan rule. The Helots were not serfs, they were slaves and the Spartans had a dedicated eugenics program designed to kill any helot that seemed "too strong". Graduating to becoming a Spartiate involved literally hunting down and killing a Helot in the night. Sparta had an entire caste of non-citizens built out of the offspring of the Helot women they had raped. To downplay all of this while talking of the conflict between Messinia and Sparta and to likewise handwave the war that finally broke them free from Sparta is disappointing to see from a channel that usually does so much better.
Hi, thanks for the comment. Please see the video on Sparta which goes more into this. Link in video description. Thanks.
David...move on from that.
@@HistorywithCy Fair enough! And looking at said video I even made a comment there praising you for talking about it. While I still feel an aside to talk about what Sparta did to the Helots would still be worth doing I take back my previous comment. Thank you.
He refers to them as state owned slaves. I think that's sufficient. The video can't focus on every aspect of history, it has to cut some things. It doesn't have time to go into detail about all that.