I live in Australia and I remember this guy, read a couple of ABC news articles about his stories when he just got back in Australia, it was like reading a thriller. Taiwan has been on the ABC news quite frequently since last year and there’s definitely an increased awareness of the tension and the threat Taiwan is facing over here. I’ve come across quite a few strangers whom I happened to talk to on the streets or cafes said to me that they were really worried about Taiwan when they found out I was Taiwanese. A few weeks ago, I got chatting to a lady at a cafe. When she was leaving she came over to my table and said to me that she prayed for Taiwan everyday. I was deeply moved.
I am really glad that the West has finally found out the truth about China now. Before 2016, whenever I read articles about China from TIME magazine,I usually felt like there were some misconceptions and illusions about China in those articles. Even before 2020, some articles were not so accurate about China,especially when Trump were saying negative things about China,which were quite true. Of course I knew why TIME didn’t buy what Trump had said.But TIME also had some illusions about China as well. I am not surprised what this journalist had been through,though it was still quite terrifying. And I think most Taiwanese won’t be surprised either😂😂😂. I am really glad the West has finally started to know the reality. It’s beneficial to the whole world. And what a cute and sweet lady,by the way~~❤️
i really doubt Aussie can pick Taiwanese out from other Asian. Not a wise way using false information to fight CCP propaganda. You can make yourself as bad as CCP
@@chingtiwang more guests like Michael would be nice. It would help to expand people’s exposure to opinions outside Taiwan (although I know translating and subtitles are a lot of work 😅)
I have never been that kinda person who comment under RUclips although have been watching 百靈果 for long, listening to all sorts of topics in all sorts of shows Clicking into the show and expecting everything about China, democracy, censorship, political stance but Hong Kong and the Movement (allow me to say this but not Protest). As a Hongkonger, I am thankful and touched, if not grateful that you guys have brought up the topic 百靈果，謝謝你們開展了這個對很多香港人來說很重要也很深刻的議題。至少對我來說，只要還一個（群）人還記得這個議題，就很感動了 Thank you so much for even merely mentioning the topic and support for us…. 謝謝你們！❤
And I really wanna show my support and appreciation to 百靈果 for providing such an informative channel and content for everyone out there! Keep up the work and hope that I could be at TW for watching you guys on stage for the premiere IRL someday after TW opens up her border to HK people😢
17:15 Just something to note, Japan didn't officially hand over Taiwan to China at end of WW2. They've only declared defeat and "gave up" their colonies. It's the KMT and majority of the Taiwanese at the time had the idea of the unification in their head.
Hi Maria, thanks for watching. Most of our contents are in Mandarin. There is a comedy serie we made called "Tough Bobas" depicting Taiwan China relationship. :)
According to ‘Treaty of San Francisco’, the formal treaty that Japan signed to end the WWII , Japan gave up the dominion on Taiwan and no specifically which country to hand over.
关于【踩红线】的标准的模糊，我觉得其实是中国政府故意为之的： 试着假想（如果你倒霉就会遇到真实的案例）：存在某个你根本不知道“什么时候发脾气“+”抓不到发脾气的理由“+”有时候不给理由，有时候给的理由却很模糊“的惯老板-- 越是故意给你找不到踩红线的标准，越是给你不知道为什么“发脾气”，你越容易小心谨慎，不给别人惹麻烦，乖乖按照老板默认的方式走，他连自己花时间去教训你都不需要 类似上述的现象，在统治时间很久了的极权国家很容易出现：你有时候骂政府是不会有事的，但是当他：【1.突然想要】【2.极权国家进入极权政府难以处理、又很麻烦--可以理解成”威胁统治正当性”--的困境时期】【3.有人特地故意举报踩红线，而这个举报带来的惩罚（或者其他处理手段）的效果，刚好符合极权政府中上下各权力阶层的利益】【4.觉得你的社会影响力可以威胁他们的政治正当性/合法性】4种情况的其中几种的时候，基本你很容易要付出“踩红线的代价”。苏联后期的社会大致上是类似这样。不过这些讲法比较简单，下面有有一个我自己的理解，作为参考“踩红线事务”的注意事项和判断【出事】的标准。 要踩红线后“出事”，得看背景、话题、出/不出事的效果、对你个人的“期望”......： a. 不涉及政治的生活抱怨基本很少有事，或者有事情的机率不高（机率哦，也就是说：你不lucky还是会有事）；涉及政治的生活抱怨（注：这就要看极权政府认为那些生活的事务“是高度政治化/和政治紧密相关”的）出事的几率会提高 b. 你的“档案身份”（男/女，国籍，种族，宗教，岁数，所在单位，社会地位，政治倾向{这个档案栏目在中国的一些资料、填表中是存在的}....）+个人心理（这个超级重要），作为判断要不要让你“出事”的【背景】标准，对极权政府要不要花时间来【惩戒你】【说服你】【引导你】【恐吓你】【其他】来说是极度重要的 c. 期间的社会情况：看看中国就知道了--就言论管制来说，防疫后比起防疫前的更常见、针对言论管制的政策和法律规章也比起防疫前更多；言论封锁的趋势，在习近平上台后和习近平上台前也是明显对比；奥运会前和期间，言论管制行为会增加，结束后会“稍微”减少。 d. 效果：这个要根据b.因素做前提来决定。以极权政府的角度来说：管你哪里人，商人是必须要【吸收】【引导】【说服】的对象，因为如果商人反我，而我反了商人，我会赚不了钱，他亏多少我不知道，可是我亏多少我很在乎；但是，如果商人反我，而我反了商人，对于我来说，有比起【引导】你的好处，更大/必要的好处，我就会反了你。这个好处和利益是极权政府自己设定的标准，外界不一定看得出。如果今天说服刘晓波相信“六四镇压是有必要的”这个命题，而说服他这个命题带来的效果，是有比起不说服他，有更大的好处，中国政府妥妥去做。 e. 成本：用高科技达成有效的言论管制（有效的“标准”一般是：不会威胁到政府权威性）肯定是最棒的，但是用高科技达成极度恐怖和夸张的言论管制肯定是最危险的，必须“收放自如”，让人有发泄口，“安抚民心”；低效果，高效率的言论管制是不需要的 | 高效果，高效率的言论管制是需要的 | 高效果，低效率的言论管制，需要提升效率 | 低效果，低效率就代表我不需要花时间在言论管制了，直接镇压比较快 有些是个人经验，有些事个人的研究理解。供参考
Great interview. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks Kylie and Ken! Takeaway of this interview: History does repeat itself over and over again. I've always think that China is basically going through everything that Taiwan has gone through, by a lag of about 20-30 years. However, China probably will never have the chance to transition into a democracy. There was a chance, and Taiwan was lucky enough to grab it and ran with it. China had a chance, but the leader nip it in the bud. Maybe in an alternative universe things are different and there are hope. What Australia and the rest of the world is going through waking up with the reality with China, is what Taiwan has gone through too, by lag of about 20 years. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. 以往發生的事，將來還會發生; 先前做過的事，將來也必再做。日光之下，根本沒有新事。 人可以指著哪件事說：“看啊，這是新事”? 所謂的新事在我們以前早就有了。 過去的事無人記得，將來的事後人也不記得。 3:44 The Great Escape 6:02 I think it's at times like this you really appreciate your government's effort 7:50 Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I still surprised that he was able to book a flight. Because you would think China has some sort of no fly list to prevent people from escaping. Or maybe he just wouldn't clear customs if he does show up for the flight 8:53 Precedents are precedents because eventually it happened 11:53 That's the thing with China or any totalitarian regime. If you have the means, you *can* have a great life. That's how you get numb to everything. But you will wake up from the dream when the government turn on you and come knock on your door 13:00 The oblivious is always the bravest. 17:27 I don't think anyone can deny that a lot of time Japanese or the British doesn't treat the Taiwanese and HKer well. After all, they are the colonizer. The "returning" does represent a possibility of change to the better. However I do think it's more so for Taiwan compare to HK. Afterall, HK is more developed at the time of handing back. 21:30 When someone has you by the balls, it's going to be painful if you ever want to struggle out of the situation 24:06 It's exactly the same with US situation. The rhetoric may be dying down a bit, but the actions are turning up the heat. I don't think it'll ever go back to what it was 25:34 The trust level for China is at an all time low that I don't think any reasonable people nowadays would have complete trust in China when they say they are a peace loving country who would never go on the offensive 26:12 It's hard to say how much Solomon Island would get the benefit from China since all the One Belt One Road initiative is on a downward spin. However, if the government is corrupt enough, it's hard to see if the situation will self-correct. Just look at Sri Lanka 29:17 You know it's *fake* because it's too *perfect*. Nothing is ever perfect or meet your expectation 100% with no reservations. 31:31 You are not a real journalist if you just ate everything that is spoon-fed to you. Those people doesn't deserve the title. A more fitting title would be a tape recorder who just repeats what was recorded 32:35 I wouldn't use the word cynical. In my opinion a more fitting word would be "skeptical" or "suspicious". To be a good investigative journalist, you have to have a healthy dose of skepticism. 33:21 Proofs that Propaganda works is the fact that it exists, and entities spends billions to create them 37:42 Guess he never mentioned that Xi Jingping also looks like Winnie-the-Pooh lol 47:36 Cornered and injured animals will behave unexpectedly. But you can't really blame them for acting that way. They want their last fighting chance. 48:22 HK has a lot of expats. And I have to regrettably say that I have heard it from expat friends complaining about how the students makes a mess of HK, while they do have the privilege to just leave at will 55:27 Personal opinion on China is that although you can never be sure on how things would turn, but the probability of a collapse has been steadily raising for years. In the past, when activities resumes and trade resumes, there is a chance that China recovers. But the current geo-political situation is basically a headwind for them, and that continues to increase the probability of a disaster 58:12 People are so forgetful, just like the saying, 好了傷疤忘了痛. It's part of human coping mechanism but it can work against you, especially if you are prevented to talk about it 1:00:50 So envious. Working for foreign company in Japan is a dream for many... (don't work for Japanese companies thought, you'll most likely regret it... it's just culturally too different) 1:05: 17 Yeah but Ken, that's like also asking why people who grew up under democracy has fascinations about fascism and extremism. Personally I feel like a lot of time it's just the right moment with right incidents and you just get suck into it 1:09:29 Well, a private plane to Australia did worked for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, hahahaha
Just something trivial….some people in Australia do think saying “piss off” is swearing. I personally don’t consider it a swear word but it is quite a strong word and can be considered rough or rude. I would only say “I’m pissed off” to people I know well in private so I can understand why Michael asked if he could swear before he said he was pissed off.
The best way to know a place and its people is to go there and live there for at least 6 months. I never trust any news and interviews only if I have been there.
生活在十六世紀、三十三歲即英年早逝的法國學者波埃西（Étienne de La Boétie），在學生時代完成的習作《論自願為奴》，意想不到地成為最早討論權力如何異化人性的傑作。 在這本書中，作者只想弄明白這個問題：為什麼會有那麼多人、那麼多城鎮、那麼多民族，有時候竟能夠忍受一個獨夫暴君的為所欲為？ 億萬民眾何以低著腦袋、戴著枷鎖，奴隸般地屈從？ 他的結論是：是人民自我奴化，自割脖子。「他們可以選擇做臣民，也可以選擇做自由人；他們可以拒絕自由，戴上枷鎖，認同其不幸，或者繼續其不幸。」 波埃西進而揭示了暴政的構成及其運行的奧秘：「獨裁者高高在上，他手下有五、六個心腹，這些人手下還有五、六百個下屬，然後有五、六千個爪牙，一直往下形成一張巨網，所有人都被網羅在其中。」
Mike是澳洲人，他「回去」澳洲總領館是尋求領事保護 (consular assistance), 而不是庇護(asylum). 前面是對內，後者是對外
I live in Australia and I remember this guy, read a couple of ABC news articles about his stories when he just got back in Australia, it was like reading a thriller. Taiwan has been on the ABC news quite frequently since last year and there’s definitely an increased awareness of the tension and the threat Taiwan is facing over here. I’ve come across quite a few strangers whom I happened to talk to on the streets or cafes said to me that they were really worried about Taiwan when they found out I was Taiwanese. A few weeks ago, I got chatting to a lady at a cafe. When she was leaving she came over to my table and said to me that she prayed for Taiwan everyday. I was deeply moved.
你是槓精嗎
I am really glad that the West has finally found out the truth about China now.
Before 2016, whenever I read articles about China from TIME magazine,I usually felt like there were some misconceptions and illusions about China in those articles. Even before 2020, some articles were not so accurate about China,especially when Trump were saying negative things about China,which were quite true. Of course I knew why TIME didn’t buy what Trump had said.But TIME also had some illusions about China as well.
I am not surprised what this journalist had been through,though it was still quite terrifying. And I think most Taiwanese won’t be surprised either😂😂😂.
I am really glad the West has finally started to know the reality. It’s beneficial to the whole world.
And what a cute and sweet lady,by the way~~❤️
Good to hear
When she was leaving she came over to my table and said to me that she prayed for Taiwan everyday.？？？？？还可以再虚假一点吗
i really doubt Aussie can pick Taiwanese out from other Asian. Not a wise way using false information to fight CCP propaganda. You can make yourself as bad as CCP
聽到香港外商對 "反送中" 的反應 , 想起太陽花學運時 , 在台外商要我們像少年拍一樣 , 學習與老虎相處 , 當時在音帝大地 "大腸花論壇" 的年輕人反嗆 , 到底有沒有看過電影啊 ?, 最後少年與老虎分道揚鑣耶 ! 感謝太陽花 !
区别在于老虎是讲原则的(不符合人类的道德，但结尾看到林子自己就走了)，现实里这个国家哪有原则，朝令夕改，没有下限啊😅
台湾一定要保住，这是希望！自由不是免费的。大陆还没到那一刻，估计应该很快了吧！加油
超讚
其他頻道看不到這種優質面談❤
等等又會出現一些「主持 expert」來批評KK訪談不夠仔細、表現太聒噪、不夠中立等等。。。
好喜歡這次的專訪，受訪者好真誠，採訪者做足功課，讓整個訪談既輕鬆又有深度（然後英文採訪真的會把凱莉變得有氣質.....，真的）
收
谢谢百灵果。我们当然可以去看英文的消息，但是在大陆媒体集体缺席的情况下，台湾视角的观点真的很重要。谢谢你们。
謝謝你
你如果把这个节目当成真的政论节目来看就要被骗了，这个节目充满了断章取义，也许是故意的也许是源自主持人本身的偏见。
每个人都是主观的，获取信息不是让你听从谁，而是让你看看别人在说什么@@phagyauto160
@@phagyauto160那你說說看中立的觀點啊
@@SP-vo4vy 孟晚舟一样可以接受访问笑谈“逃出加拿大”，你们预设立场，把全世界所有国家都在做的事情用不同的态度去看待。除此之外，这个节目也不讨论五眼国家对中国的情报渗透，单方面看热闹式的塑造中共很可怕的氛围，所以这并不是个专业的政论节目，改名叫民主的傲慢与偏见更合适。
結尾小狗的故事真是畫龍點睛。雖然Michael說是人們更在乎小狗的故事 > 與政治相關的事。但其實人們關心政治，正是因為政治關係到我們生活中的這些小事。簡單說，人們關心政治的目的，不過就是為了維護生活中的小確幸。
我自己臺灣國小念完就在國外生活長大了, 但我一直都有養成看台灣新聞跟台灣youtuber的習慣, 我也知道台灣媒體報的很多都是帶風向, 我也會做中英文報導交叉對比資料可信度, 我覺得以國外尤其是以歐美西方國家媒體還有社會的角度來說, 的確我們比台灣人急得跳腳, 其中很大一部份的外國人的確是不太清楚台灣跟中國之間的相處型態, 也很難以台灣人的角度來看待這件已經疲勞轟炸台灣人70年以上的威脅了
但是有一小部分的外國專業人士是很清楚兩邊的心態的, 他們一樣跳腳的原因, 是因為台灣國防感覺沒有落實, 基層人員到高層似乎都沒有做好戰爭的準備, 所以他們才想要搧風點火希望讓台灣有點危機感, 因為台灣一直都生活在舒適圈, 卻沒有積極的應對這些威脅, 真正有危機意識的台灣人卻又不在權力核心, 其他基層台灣人也無法有效團結起來形成一股勢力, 雖然最近來說是有發現一些這樣的台灣人有在行動, 但規模不夠大, 裡面的人才也不夠多, 不足以應付隨時可能發生的衝突
雖然現在國軍有因應政府跟社會的聲音進行部分改革, 但成效如何還需要再觀察, 我希望是一次改到位, 但看到刺槍術這種東西還沒被改掉, 告訴了我國軍內部高層的老古板們似乎還是沒有想要改變的意思, 如果他們真心沒有覺得自己方向有問題然後放下面子去改變, 那台灣不管改幾次都沒有太大的作用, 政府跟軍方也有明顯的默契認知問題, 可能蔡英文真的在軍隊裡沒有掌握住真正的軍隊老大, 才導致政府儘管有心想改, 軍方卻玩這種上有政策下有對策的遊戲打發掉, 讓政府表面上看起來有面子, 可以跟社會交代得過去, 但背地裡這軍隊依舊是他們的天下, 他們就是懶得改, 一改要多做好多東西, 多好多責任, 甚至可能很多單位跟人事分配都有問題, 他們利益分贓不均就會軍方內部派系起衝突, 我覺得這些才是問題所在, 也不是總統下令就能改掉的
雖然我還是了解台灣人有多老神在在, 但說穿了也是一種無奈, 大家都知道如果打來了就是沒得躲, 就是要硬著頭皮跟對方幹然後存活, 有這層的認知才導致很多台灣人老神在在, 但其實老神在在分兩種, 一種是"躲也沒用努力也沒用, 來了就認了", 一種是"隨時都有可以發現這件事, 我計算了一下知道我自己可以怎麼存活, 怎麼安頓家人, 怎麼拿到武器, 怎麼盡可能的造成對方損傷"
這兩種老神在在很不同, 前一種是沒計畫, 來了就擋一下, 死了就死了的態度, 後一種則是認知到自己可以做什麼, 大概可以撐到什麼地步都有大約計算過, 甚至也計算過如果失敗的後果, 然後計畫完了, 自己才老神在在的看著局勢發展在一邊調整計畫, 目前我覺得台灣普遍都是第一種, 這種心態才危險, 雖然大家暫時可以放鬆不用多想, 但我覺得這種心態根本溫水煮青蛙, 而且是自己煮自己
希望台灣人平常自己就可以多鍛鍊自己, 至少家裡附近防空洞在哪, 有空襲時要怎麼安頓家裡人這些都要大概計算過, 這樣你還能老神在在才是真正的老神在在, 而不是那種認命認死的老神在在
我覺得國外的擔心還是比較真實的, 因為我有發現台灣國防部居然會刻意壓住一些中共的軍事行動的消息, 來安定台灣社會, 但這些消息卻都被日本第一時間發現並報導出來, 導致台灣還要從日本那裡得到解放軍的觀察跟行動, 這是一個很大的警訊, 台灣國防部居然不願意公開這些消息, 只為了不造成社會恐慌, 我覺得台灣軍方真的是有很大的問題, 這種問題很有可能變成解放軍入侵的隙縫, 我覺得台灣人還是需要提高警覺
说一堆没用的。。。
字太多，不看！台灣的事情幹你屁事？拿外國護照，挺台灣，挺台獨？別人的小孩死不完？兩岸開戰，請問你上戰場嗎？就知道煽風點火，說風涼話！
中肯，按讚了
上面的粉紅回家去，乖
@@user-ru6rr5do8z 台灣今天的民主化也有海外台灣人幫忙努力才做到的，那些想要終止國民黨專政而被通緝最後流放海外的，都是我們這些人接待他們的
不要說到台獨就跳腳，中華民國當年靠海外勢力靠的最慘你都不說，只因為台獨不對你立場就唉唉叫，怎麼不去看看孫中山多少次都是靠海外勢力，最後才一把火從海外燒回中國，推翻滿清的?
我這次我會回去投賴清德，開戰我會看我在哪一邊做什麼事的價值最大，然後做對台灣利益最大化的事，海外不是只有國民黨票而已，你們已經老了，年輕人不是投柯文哲就是賴清德，認清現實吧
從11:45開始全神貫注盯著字幕看有沒狗勾的消息，終於在最後等到他們順利重逢了，超開心❤
11:36 金句必須標註出來
Everyone! He knew it wasn't my fault but of course he blamed me. That's what your partner do.
人的记忆很短暂，尤其是中国人。封城期间我们几个小伙伴一起抱团准备雅思，结果封城结束了只有我一个人去考试了。
As a Chinese studying in the States now, I wish you good luck!
考雅思/托福這關，就夠刷掉一大票人了。
祝你能快點潤出來
希望你早點出國留學
谢谢大家，我已经收到美国大学的录取，期待新生活。
這集好看耶 從頭看到尾~
而且他講英文口音也蠻好聽的
感覺KEN跟凱莉英文也有進步XD
Michael's Aussie accent is not very strong. :)
我們很努力練英文ＸＤＤ
@@chingtiwang more guests like Michael would be nice. It would help to expand people’s exposure to opinions outside Taiwan (although I know translating and subtitles are a lot of work 😅)
The best episode in a long time.
謝謝你們訪問外國人（澳洲），讓我們了解外國人是如何看待中國與臺灣，很棒，希望可以繼續邀請外國人上節目，很謝謝。
節目真好看，看了十分鐘的版本，意猶未盡，來看一個多小時的。
謝謝你
很棒的專訪，很訝異其它國家記者會相信中國大外宣那套，可見不少台灣人也會相信
洪秀柱就信。
@@a0917294561 她是拿了不少好處吧
看看王局那一期，中国需要大外宣么lol
感覺凱莉用英文就突然變得很有氣質，9:30那段打斷KEN的方式好像沒有在中文訪談中看過XDDD
Stephen 竟然沒有剪掉😅
I have never been that kinda person who comment under RUclips although have been watching 百靈果 for long, listening to all sorts of topics in all sorts of shows
Clicking into the show and expecting everything about China, democracy, censorship, political stance but Hong Kong and the Movement (allow me to say this but not Protest). As a Hongkonger, I am thankful and touched, if not grateful that you guys have brought up the topic
百靈果，謝謝你們開展了這個對很多香港人來說很重要也很深刻的議題。至少對我來說，只要還一個（群）人還記得這個議題，就很感動了
Thank you so much for even merely mentioning the topic and support for us….
謝謝你們！❤
And I really wanna show my support and appreciation to 百靈果 for providing such an informative channel and content for everyone out there! Keep up the work and hope that I could be at TW for watching you guys on stage for the premiere IRL someday after TW opens up her border to HK people😢
See you soon ❤
現在好多香港人 來台北住社會住宅 信義區新大樓 有社區公園那種遊樂設施
完成今日份的英語聽力練習了哈哈🤣
年度任務 1/1
他和他说的一些朋友们真的都是很敬业的记者。
这是我觉得kk最重要的一集之一。我是中国来的人。
中國小粉紅會說你是台灣人假裝中國人。
@@kwoo24 嗯，不过其实这个采访中国人比台湾人更感兴趣。
@@ghgggg914 真的嗎？怎麼說？
@@kwoo24 畢竟香港、新疆、疫情等等，雖然跟台灣人也有極大的關係，但對對岸的人來說，這是真正意義上的家務事
@@cheney4636 香港 新疆 跟台灣不相關吧? 疫情倒是有關
我看到威秀寶寶17歲的廣告直覺是 威秀寶寶再一年就會變成可以抽菸喝酒開車的威秀寶寶
喝酒開車不管幾歲都不可以喔！
哈哈哈哈《論標點符號的重要性》如果改成「抽菸、喝酒、開車」會不會好一點😂
@@user-oc2uc8xw7i 我想看到邊喝酒開車邊嗑藥抽菸的威秀寶寶形象看看
某方面來說 感謝這COVID 讓澳洲大多數人終於看清中共！不然 就像這記者一樣，大多澳洲人在疫情前對中共態度還是somewhat positive! 即便是新疆 and 反送中議題這麼大！果然還是要到中共經濟制裁澳洲 他們才會有切身之痛
Thank you all for mentioning and talking about HK. Interesting.
我正在練英聽
這內容真的太棒了🤩
17:15 Just something to note, Japan didn't officially hand over Taiwan to China at end of WW2. They've only declared defeat and "gave up" their colonies. It's the KMT and majority of the Taiwanese at the time had the idea of the unification in their head.
是的～ 請看舊金山條約第二條
中華民國是代替聯合國管理台灣(治權)，實質上各國也不想插手，但又遲遲不蓋棺定論、偷留一手，才會導致現在的爭議
以美國的立場，美國的第一島鏈是不含其他外島的，協防 only 本島。
聽到他講去新疆那段
讓我完全想起Adam Fletcher的書"從車諾比到北韓，12個瘋狂的冒險故事"
他們去北韓旅遊的那一段...
In fact, Japanese people are very talkative when you talk to them in Japanese
有趣又有深度的訪談，在台灣電視或RUclips 都難得一見，年輕一代還是有優秀的人才，比那些不斷在「強調自己有多資深的記者」好太多！
謝謝百靈果～真的很棒很重要的採訪👍👍👍👍
What an interesting interview. Love to hear more about similar subjects, not sure if you have done more in the past I just discovered your channel.
Hi Maria, thanks for watching. Most of our contents are in Mandarin. There is a comedy serie we made called "Tough Bobas" depicting Taiwan China relationship. :)
According to ‘Treaty of San Francisco’, the formal treaty that Japan signed to end the WWII , Japan gave up the dominion on Taiwan and no specifically which country to hand over.
Wow it's a great interview 😉
這集實在應該要幫高調
儘管「無聲的入侵：中國因素在澳洲」（Silent Invasion: China's Influence in Australia）揭露了中國對澳洲的滲透謀略作為，是否許多澳洲人可能上不夠警惕？
的確是的。
好喜歡這集！
今天早上才跟同樣來自Tasmania的伴侶拌嘴，對他抱怨了一堆事，對於Mike說伴侶就是這樣特別有感，根本在說我XDDD
一集根本不夠，能不能有第二集！ 我認真的。
是不是要等KK去日本佈道看會不會有續集
Awesome episode 👏!
亞果出任務真實版…(不過亞果好像就是真實事件XD
Thank you so much. It is really a nice and decent interview.
关于【踩红线】的标准的模糊，我觉得其实是中国政府故意为之的：
试着假想（如果你倒霉就会遇到真实的案例）：存在某个你根本不知道“什么时候发脾气“+”抓不到发脾气的理由“+”有时候不给理由，有时候给的理由却很模糊“的惯老板--
越是故意给你找不到踩红线的标准，越是给你不知道为什么“发脾气”，你越容易小心谨慎，不给别人惹麻烦，乖乖按照老板默认的方式走，他连自己花时间去教训你都不需要
类似上述的现象，在统治时间很久了的极权国家很容易出现：你有时候骂政府是不会有事的，但是当他：【1.突然想要】【2.极权国家进入极权政府难以处理、又很麻烦--可以理解成”威胁统治正当性”--的困境时期】【3.有人特地故意举报踩红线，而这个举报带来的惩罚（或者其他处理手段）的效果，刚好符合极权政府中上下各权力阶层的利益】【4.觉得你的社会影响力可以威胁他们的政治正当性/合法性】4种情况的其中几种的时候，基本你很容易要付出“踩红线的代价”。苏联后期的社会大致上是类似这样。不过这些讲法比较简单，下面有有一个我自己的理解，作为参考“踩红线事务”的注意事项和判断【出事】的标准。
要踩红线后“出事”，得看背景、话题、出/不出事的效果、对你个人的“期望”......：
a. 不涉及政治的生活抱怨基本很少有事，或者有事情的机率不高（机率哦，也就是说：你不lucky还是会有事）；涉及政治的生活抱怨（注：这就要看极权政府认为那些生活的事务“是高度政治化/和政治紧密相关”的）出事的几率会提高
b. 你的“档案身份”（男/女，国籍，种族，宗教，岁数，所在单位，社会地位，政治倾向{这个档案栏目在中国的一些资料、填表中是存在的}....）+个人心理（这个超级重要），作为判断要不要让你“出事”的【背景】标准，对极权政府要不要花时间来【惩戒你】【说服你】【引导你】【恐吓你】【其他】来说是极度重要的
c. 期间的社会情况：看看中国就知道了--就言论管制来说，防疫后比起防疫前的更常见、针对言论管制的政策和法律规章也比起防疫前更多；言论封锁的趋势，在习近平上台后和习近平上台前也是明显对比；奥运会前和期间，言论管制行为会增加，结束后会“稍微”减少。
d. 效果：这个要根据b.因素做前提来决定。以极权政府的角度来说：管你哪里人，商人是必须要【吸收】【引导】【说服】的对象，因为如果商人反我，而我反了商人，我会赚不了钱，他亏多少我不知道，可是我亏多少我很在乎；但是，如果商人反我，而我反了商人，对于我来说，有比起【引导】你的好处，更大/必要的好处，我就会反了你。这个好处和利益是极权政府自己设定的标准，外界不一定看得出。如果今天说服刘晓波相信“六四镇压是有必要的”这个命题，而说服他这个命题带来的效果，是有比起不说服他，有更大的好处，中国政府妥妥去做。
e. 成本：用高科技达成有效的言论管制（有效的“标准”一般是：不会威胁到政府权威性）肯定是最棒的，但是用高科技达成极度恐怖和夸张的言论管制肯定是最危险的，必须“收放自如”，让人有发泄口，“安抚民心”；低效果，高效率的言论管制是不需要的 | 高效果，高效率的言论管制是需要的 | 高效果，低效率的言论管制，需要提升效率 | 低效果，低效率就代表我不需要花时间在言论管制了，直接镇压比较快
有些是个人经验，有些事个人的研究理解。供参考
謝謝你的分享
很熟悉，其實台灣的上一輩就是這樣過生活的
47:58就是一個例子，讓人民無法判断【出事】的标准
@@Gdd-dg9ym 我一直对台湾的白色恐怖时期没什么研究。我有点好奇，如果你有相关资料的话可以介绍我吗？我有时间就会去看
@@felatorng424 其實估狗就有了，網上資料很多，我的感想是，當政府想要消滅的對象不是一般百姓，而是上升到知識分子醫生老師，表示政府不是在隱藏什麼滔天大事，就是爛到不行了，把可用之人殺掉是滅國的行為是吧?
…对香港访谈那部分感觉很牵强 受访者比两位主持人要中立很多 （because he knew more）
我基本上每年都去香港两三次 社会并不是像你们想象那样改变的. 你们一直想象回归后香港就变得很差 但其实极大部分普通人生活照常 甚至少了腐败和黑社会 意识形态的收缩也只是19年运动后才发生巨变.
很喜欢贵节目 只是觉得两位对中国总有负面的且笃定的预设立场 maybe对不是真的了解的事情 可以中立的采访来宾
love the interview overall！🫶🏼
不要期望他们改变，这种偏见使得他们的节目有点扭曲
中天去新疆的話，也會很欣然接受大外宣，所以記者不一定代表個人。而是媒體派去的
Will be great if you are able to invite /interview Bill Birtles from ABC news currently stationed in Taipei
那本書真的很有趣，書中提到的剛好我這幾年跟某些朋友相處聽到的大外宣，一摸一樣，推薦大家看
不知道字幕是誰上的，但我很感謝他
我們花錢找翻譯然後麻煩夥伴幫忙上
Amazing Content!!
還以為是澳洲的電台採訪，二位主持英語沒有什麼口音，尤其是女主持，節目很精彩，會去看Mike 的這本書
精彩的訪談
果然是華語最自由的電台
今天是英語喔（誤😂
Great interview. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks Kylie and Ken!
Takeaway of this interview: History does repeat itself over and over again. I've always think that China is basically going through everything that Taiwan has gone through, by a lag of about 20-30 years. However, China probably will never have the chance to transition into a democracy. There was a chance, and Taiwan was lucky enough to grab it and ran with it. China had a chance, but the leader nip it in the bud. Maybe in an alternative universe things are different and there are hope. What Australia and the rest of the world is going through waking up with the reality with China, is what Taiwan has gone through too, by lag of about 20 years.
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
以往發生的事，將來還會發生; 先前做過的事，將來也必再做。日光之下，根本沒有新事。
人可以指著哪件事說：“看啊，這是新事”? 所謂的新事在我們以前早就有了。
過去的事無人記得，將來的事後人也不記得。
3:44 The Great Escape
6:02 I think it's at times like this you really appreciate your government's effort
7:50 Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I still surprised that he was able to book a flight. Because you would think China has some sort of no fly list to prevent people from escaping. Or maybe he just wouldn't clear customs if he does show up for the flight
8:53 Precedents are precedents because eventually it happened
11:53 That's the thing with China or any totalitarian regime. If you have the means, you *can* have a great life. That's how you get numb to everything. But you will wake up from the dream when the government turn on you and come knock on your door
13:00 The oblivious is always the bravest.
17:27 I don't think anyone can deny that a lot of time Japanese or the British doesn't treat the Taiwanese and HKer well. After all, they are the colonizer. The "returning" does represent a possibility of change to the better. However I do think it's more so for Taiwan compare to HK. Afterall, HK is more developed at the time of handing back.
21:30 When someone has you by the balls, it's going to be painful if you ever want to struggle out of the situation
24:06 It's exactly the same with US situation. The rhetoric may be dying down a bit, but the actions are turning up the heat. I don't think it'll ever go back to what it was
25:34 The trust level for China is at an all time low that I don't think any reasonable people nowadays would have complete trust in China when they say they are a peace loving country who would never go on the offensive
26:12 It's hard to say how much Solomon Island would get the benefit from China since all the One Belt One Road initiative is on a downward spin. However, if the government is corrupt enough, it's hard to see if the situation will self-correct. Just look at Sri Lanka
29:17 You know it's *fake* because it's too *perfect*. Nothing is ever perfect or meet your expectation 100% with no reservations.
31:31 You are not a real journalist if you just ate everything that is spoon-fed to you. Those people doesn't deserve the title. A more fitting title would be a tape recorder who just repeats what was recorded
32:35 I wouldn't use the word cynical. In my opinion a more fitting word would be "skeptical" or "suspicious". To be a good investigative journalist, you have to have a healthy dose of skepticism.
33:21 Proofs that Propaganda works is the fact that it exists, and entities spends billions to create them
37:42 Guess he never mentioned that Xi Jingping also looks like Winnie-the-Pooh lol
47:36 Cornered and injured animals will behave unexpectedly. But you can't really blame them for acting that way. They want their last fighting chance.
48:22 HK has a lot of expats. And I have to regrettably say that I have heard it from expat friends complaining about how the students makes a mess of HK, while they do have the privilege to just leave at will
55:27 Personal opinion on China is that although you can never be sure on how things would turn, but the probability of a collapse has been steadily raising for years. In the past, when activities resumes and trade resumes, there is a chance that China recovers. But the current geo-political situation is basically a headwind for them, and that continues to increase the probability of a disaster
58:12 People are so forgetful, just like the saying, 好了傷疤忘了痛. It's part of human coping mechanism but it can work against you, especially if you are prevented to talk about it
1:00:50 So envious. Working for foreign company in Japan is a dream for many... (don't work for Japanese companies thought, you'll most likely regret it... it's just culturally too different)
1:05: 17 Yeah but Ken, that's like also asking why people who grew up under democracy has fascinations about fascism and extremism. Personally I feel like a lot of time it's just the right moment with right incidents and you just get suck into it
1:09:29 Well, a private plane to Australia did worked for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, hahahaha
can you make a playlist with your english interviews? And while you are at it, can you make more english interviews. Thanks much 😊
謝謝百靈果。。。感覺youtube中文界很缺乏這類的訪談， 尤其是以在中國的外國記者角度
精彩絕倫 想買書了
狗狗，平安團聚了！❤️
我很想多了解澳洲被中國滲透的諸多問題
很多中共线人，各个领域，甚至业余华人合唱团都有。中领馆会发钱给他们。
連澳洲政府也不清楚
因為他們也不想清楚
全世界各國學界商界政界，中國灑的錢、餵的色真的是有夠誇張的多
澳大利亚被共匪渗透很严重😢
Just something trivial….some people in Australia do think saying “piss off” is swearing. I personally don’t consider it a swear word but it is quite a strong word and can be considered rough or rude. I would only say “I’m pissed off” to people I know well in private so I can understand why Michael asked if he could swear before he said he was pissed off.
Got it!!!!
兩位主持人不知道為什麼笑這麼開心
這集好棒哦
Great interview. 👍🏻
非常精彩的一集
the whole story is just like a novel 😢
16:44 Jet Li 是李連傑哦. 當時在香港真的很紅
連杰
強國下的人們缺的不是勇氣
而是武器
我指並不是要攻擊別人啦！
只是有能力保護自己
聽到與狗見面事件我喜極而泣！
+1
为了看你们的节目，每次都忍着把广告看完
啊啊啊啊現在就想聽
可能是今年目前最重要的一集加上曹董那集~
我同時喜歡曹董 跟 柯文哲 很怪嗎
@@garishqualm344 不會吧, 因為某方面的本質應該是相同的, 都是希望台灣變更好, 我雖然稱不上"喜歡"柯P, 但是台灣政治需要不一樣的顏色,背景, 多元參與, 不然感覺就是走不出來的局.... 但是柯P作為政治家或許要再往上走就挺難的, 或是要有強大的speeking coach或禮儀coach包裝支撐... 個人魅力在政治世界還是滿重要的我覺得, 說彎了但是突然想到感覺他可以試試Bernie Sanders的路線 😅
@@Giaji 柯後面言論太崩壞了，可以理解他討厭民進黨，但因為討厭民進黨就常常在麥克風前講一堆胡說八道的東西
那跟國民黨民進黨根本沒啥不同
中國版的逃出xx蘭(亞果出任務🤣🤣🤣)
what a story, god bless
主持人們看的出來很緊張
但表現的很好
只不過可能太緊張了有時會打斷來賓的節奏
百齡果的風格一直是這樣啊 他們做的比較像是請來賓上來閒聊 並不是要訪問
好期待啊
The best way to know a place and its people is to go there and live there for at least 6 months. I never trust any news and interviews only if I have been there.
是的😂他瞎说了很多事
跪求2016西藏報導 T^T
推多點英文專訪～～～～
他說的ghost city, ghost building 我推測是在講 爛尾樓吧，南京、北韓平壤 也都有，就是他說的 用建設工程刺激經濟，換個包裝外銷 就叫 一帶一路 一貸一賂，現在各國跟對岸合作的 也都有爛尾幾億工程 跨海大橋 跨國公路，用工程去跟國家計畫請款 比同行低價得標 但錢不足以完成工程，最後捲款跑掉。
很精彩的一集 - 聽聽非美國人的觀點 (不然一堆人覺得总在舔美)。感謝你們最後問狗勾的事!!! 😀
想看他的可愛狗狗影片😂(喂!)
最後狗狗見面的那段真感人 😂
謝謝！
說英文的凱莉真的很性感欸
收
The two anadian guy that got kidnap were also named Michael. They really have a thing about person named Micheal
Too much interruptions coming from the hosts, they really needed to let the guest finish his chain of thoughts first.
Kylie’s English speaking voice is so 🔥
這個話題很好。
i want to buy the book through amazon but so unlucky cannot delivery to viet nam ... any one can help ?
男女主持人 英文講得非常流暢 沒有什麼口音 讚 !!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
are you sure???
可以說英文很流暢 但口音肯定是還有的
有口音超棒 我愛台灣人的口音
有口音怎麼了嗎?
@@gardenerh 正正相反 我覺得有口音才好 有口音意味著你精通另一項語言跟文化 這應該是該自豪的一件事 我只是反對樓主說ken跟凱莉沒什麼口音而已
與狗狗在日本相聚了♡
想找看看相聚的影片
我们的思想上有两种天然的封锁，导致我们看待万事万物总有偏颇。第一种，越是近处的事情越容易认识到其复杂性越倾向于具体事情具体分析，越是遥远的事情越难以全面认识越容易一言以蔽之甚至做断言。第二种，倾向于相信我们愿意相信的东西，质疑我们不愿意相信的东西。
45:25 這是一個傷心的轉大人的故事，很多人也認為上海不會封城，中共和外資都無法忍受帶來的經濟打擊，結果。
去脈絡的指責香港抗議活動是不公平的，同樣馬後砲的講，香港在英屬時期也沒有培養足夠的公民意識，必須由全體香港人共同承擔。戰略上一直不抗爭陪中共選假的，讓反抗勢力聚集，期待有天會選真的，也是在賭，我無法想像蔣介石不死台灣會民主化
我真的有跟巴黎的義大利人討論過中國議題，不確定但感覺上義大利官方滿吃大外宣那一套，讓我懷疑我們是不是住在平行宇宙，難不成我才是被洗腦的那一個😅
聲音好好聽❤
生活在十六世紀、三十三歲即英年早逝的法國學者波埃西（Étienne de La Boétie），在學生時代完成的習作《論自願為奴》，意想不到地成為最早討論權力如何異化人性的傑作。
在這本書中，作者只想弄明白這個問題：為什麼會有那麼多人、那麼多城鎮、那麼多民族，有時候竟能夠忍受一個獨夫暴君的為所欲為？
億萬民眾何以低著腦袋、戴著枷鎖，奴隸般地屈從？
他的結論是：是人民自我奴化，自割脖子。「他們可以選擇做臣民，也可以選擇做自由人；他們可以拒絕自由，戴上枷鎖，認同其不幸，或者繼續其不幸。」
波埃西進而揭示了暴政的構成及其運行的奧秘：「獨裁者高高在上，他手下有五、六個心腹，這些人手下還有五、六百個下屬，然後有五、六千個爪牙，一直往下形成一張巨網，所有人都被網羅在其中。」
新疆行程好像是固定的，跟祝祝姐去的感覺都一樣，但她信了這個楚門世界。
誰是祝祝姐？
你听谁说的新疆行程是固定的？
ruclips.net/video/ne3D3UUsY6M/видео.html
@@bbtrolc 他說的是中國政府安排的新疆參訪吧？你警覺性好高！
@@kwoo24 洪秀柱
就算是固定的，覺得住在有鐵絲網跟監獄門的地方OK的人，真的很噁心又冷血
如果自己去住會覺得ok嗎😡
突然想到"東京風雲"那部影集，在描述白人去東京當記者所遇到的文化衝擊~~
14:06 注: 塔斯马尼亚岛并不小，将近台湾岛的2倍。霍巴特是它的首府城市，其实并不是town，而是city。他说岛tiny估计是相对澳洲大陆而言
Michael 書已買
14:04 Hobartian (waving~~~)
这老外有一点说错了，去新疆，或者说去黑龙江、新疆、西藏、广西、云南、甘肃、内蒙古这些边境地区都需要边境证，不只是外国人，是针对所有人，至于。。你连申请都不申请就说去不了。。那就有点过分了，如果说新冠期间很严厉，那现在或者之前都是很随便的。