Faust final trio - Caruso-Farrar-Journet & McCormack-Melba-Sammarco (1910)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Here's an interesting comparison: the Faust final trio (Alerte! Alerte! Ou vous ete perdus!) with Enrico Caruso, Geraldine Farrar, and Marcel Journet, 12 January 1910 Victor recording, and the final trio with John McCormack, Nellie Melba, and Mario Sammarco, 11 May 1910 HMV recording.
Two things to note: First of all, Caruso's voice was so large he was made to stand several feet away from Farrar and Journet, who were much closer to the recording horn than he was (this was a common occurrence when Caruso recorded with other artists). McCormack had a much smaller voice so he stood extremely close to the horn when recording. Second of all, Farrar's voice was considerably larger than Melba's. Therefore the difference between the sizes of Caruso and McCormack's voices may not be as apparent as it would be live, but it is still obvious that Caruso produced a far more powerful sound.
The reason I posted this was to address the people who think one can't judge Caruso's greatness based on 'those old acoustic recordings.' The point is, some of John McCormack's best recordings (such as this one) were ACOUSTIC, made during the same time Caruso was recording for Victor. Tito Schipa is another example. In my opinion, his GREATEST recordings were made with HMV in the years between 1913 and 1921, all ACOUSTIC. No one ever complains that we cant judge McCormack and Schipa's greatness based on 'those old acoustic recordings,' so why complain about judging Caruso?
Enjoy the recordings, and I hope you find my argument valid, or at least interesting. Feel free to contribute to the discussion if you want to put your 2 cents worth in this matter.
Both recordings are fantastic, each in its own way. Caruso and McCormick were both head, shoulders, tuchus, knees, and feet better than Pavarotti. Melba's purity of tone is amazing. Journet, Farrar, and Sammarco were further proof that their era really was part of the Golden Age. (The Golden Age IMHO ran from the beginning of time to about 1940. Then came the Silver Age, the next 25-28 years thereafter. Then the Lead Age, some 47 years old and still going.
People must listen beyond the static. If static and scratches is all they can hear, maybe they are just really shallow people who don't deserve to experience the magic of Caruso's voice =)
...although great artists/singers lacked Caruso's glorious voice. Perhaps that's why people don't dwell on the issues of judging their acoustic recordings as much as with Caruso? My point is even with these so called 'old recordings', you can still tell Caruso was the greatest. Just the way he sings, how he is able to convey the passion at the core of every human soul, but which very few are able to express to others. On top of that the greatest tenor voice-yes I can tell even with old records.
True
I'm 78 years old and have been listening to singers for a long time and I must say that it is very hard to judge from these old recordings. My uncle, who was a trained singer, heard Caruso, Melba and Journet and said they were terrific.There's no living person who actually heard these singers so we have to be content with the opinion of those who did hear them. Thanks for posting.
I listened to the Melba one as a boy 65 years ago and now I find this one!
Farrars voice was certainly NOT bigger than Melbas. My singing teaching in the early 1960s had heard Melba in Australia before 1920 and said it was a huge voice. Melba used Marchesis technique and sang loud when necessary-ie forte in the score
Stephen Collins
Melba did not use Marchesi's technique. That technique was not so good as people think. If you listen to Marchesi students and Melba there is a marked difference in technique. Melba was taught at school by a lady who was a student of Garcia and an Italian gentleman in Melbourne after that. Marchesi supposedly just did some polishing up. Melba however was great.
HoneyBee are you sure ? So why does Suzanne Adams , another marchesi student also sound very similar to Melba. So much so that people are confused on who’s on the mapelson cylinders. Marchesi was also a student of Garcia.
The most interesting aspect of this posting is the clear difference between Melba, who shows herself as a Lyric Coloratura in this excerpt, and Farrar who is clearly a spinto soprano. Very interesting. Thank you so much for the posting.
Farrar is a wonderful singer ( sounds a bit like Melba ) but Melba knocks her out of the court, hands down
Stephen Collins
Stephen, in 1910, the time of these two recordings Melba was almost 49 while Farrar only 28 years old. Geraldine voice sounds much more fresher than Melba's.
I admit I'm a Melba tragic, but to me there is no comparison. The Melba trio has drive and excitement, with a tempo that slows for the great moments. The other recording is dull, plodding and flat, with the singers not relating to each other at all.
Yes, I guess mostly for profit, but if he hadn't been so well known, who would buy them...
I suppose that's why people tend to judge Caruso's recordings more harshly - 'he is supposed to be the greatest tenor of all times - so why are the recordings to bad?'
Illogic, of course, but if people envision perfection and then don't hear it immediately in the recordings with all the scratchings, they are like to judge harder. If they would persist and listen repeatedly, they would hear perfection...
Oh yes they certainly were the same companies. "HMV" after all stands for "His Master's Voice" which was always written underneath Nipper on Victor records. One example of European HMV recordings being released on RCA Victor would be the 1939 Gigli/Albanese "Boheme" which I have on I think 18 12" 78s; the RCA Victor American or Canadian release.
Why are these records listed in exactly the opposite order from that in which they are posted?
Good comparison and I think you make a valid point, Theo. One could also ask why have there been so many efforts to restore Caruso's voice - in comparison to McCormack's and the voices of other contemporaries? - I remember the first time I heard Caruso (bought an LP in the beginning of the 70ies). I was completely overwhelmed by the power of his voice and his empathy. I had never heard a voice like that. And I didn't even like opera at the time :-)
Unlike what German opera singer says, I think that Caruso and Journet stood farther away from horn (“microphone”). Perhaps, little bit too far. Both had powerful voices, while Geraldine sang directly to horn. This is why you can hear her very clearly and louder. It does not mean I dare to criticize your opinion because Geraldine Farrar was a great and beautiful soprano. I heard that Caruso was even more than very sympathetic to her and later to Claudia Muzio as well. Caruso in private life was a romantic man. Also, in 1910, (the time of these two recordings) Melba was 49 while Farrar only 28 years old. Geraldine voice sounds much more fresher than Melba's. 21 years age difference is clearly visible here...
@tomfroekjaer With great respect (and please believe that respect is genuine, for I enjoy your videos and am very grateful that you post them), neither Caruso nor any other person has achieved perfection, and certainly not on recordings. However, Caruso clearly made great efforts to strive toward perfection, and it was that prodigious spending of himself to such a noble goal that made him the great man and singer he became.
In the end, it is the Farrar-Caruso-Journet trio that moves me. And it is because of Farrar, not Caruso. That's what my ears, my body, my heart tells me. Who am I to argue?
I slightly disagree. Why? Read my comment somewhere here.
Farrar is definitely the stand out !!
Thanks for sharing, Theo. A most interesting comparison.
Love the sweet, radiant voice of Melba!! Thank u so much for sharing this operatic gem!
@meltzerboy Melba and Farrar probably had similarly-sized voices, though Melba's was so finely focused that it carried better. Anyway, this is one of Farrar's better records. Her tone sounds full and soaring.
Records aren't always fair to singers. Mario Sammarco was a very celebrated figure in his own time, but this is far from a good showing for him.
4 years ago I wrote a note here - what language were they singing - the first, the Sammanco version is obviously Italian - the second one, with Journey is the original French - I can't get used to Faust in any other language than French. (Jun 29, 2015)
Oh wow I'm an idiot. I knew the 'His Master's Voice' and Nipper the dog was the logo for Victor, just didn't realize HMV stood for the same thing...
I didn't know they were the same company, thanks for pointing that out. I assumed because looking at the info I saw they didn't record with the Victor orchestra on 'HMV' recordings.
tutti meravigliosi !!!!!!
addio bel passato !
******************************************infiniti
Yes, we can never fully judge any of the singers from the early 20th century, but my point was that we can't judge McCormack and Schipa (at least in their primes) any more than we can judge Caruso, and yet people don't seem to pick on them nearly as much. But its a good point you make, if they were hailed as the 'greatest tenor ever', it would probably be different.
The main reason is probably for profit - Caruso is much more popular among the general public than any of his contemporaries (though not in a 'bad cult' kind of way like Pavarotti is). Another reason is perhaps to satisfy curiosity - Caruso's voice had ravishing luxurious overtones (based on firsthand accounts) which could never have been captured on recording; people have been trying to restore those for almost a century! I suppose one can't really say that for Schipa and McCormack, who...
Both recordings are too much dominated by the soprano. Both McCormack and Caruso are hardly heard.
Both recordings are great in their own right, however, you are comparing a 50 year old Melba with a 28 year old Farrar. Melba has the experience that comes only with time and Farrar has a more youthful sound. I think the version with Farrar might sound better if they backed her away a bit from the recording horn, as her voice does seem a bit harsh at times.
Combos like the world has not heard in 100 years, not just one but 2 beyond incredible.
Yet in our dumbed down times true quality is treated deserted for pop dumb.
You're probably correct, Melba may have stood further from the horn to avoid drowning out McCormack. Farrar of course didn't have to worry about drowning out Caruso.
@Nicholas Ennos, in 1924 all performers were singing to electric microphones, so the volume of their voices could be adjusted according to surrounding "atmosphere". Caruso is the singer of acoustic era only...
@@johnfalstaff2270 Wrong. This is acoustic as well. There are only 4 electric Melba sides, and the farewell performance. Electric recording became widespread in 1925.
@@MrRicksStudio, read carefully what I wrote. Why did you delete your previous senseless comment? Before 1924, every recording was an acoustic one. After that all switched to electric. Caruso was unfortunate leaving us in 1921, so there is no even one electric record of his voice. Melba, after retiring from the stage was still concerting until very late age. I did not like her heavy and gloomy voice. You can think what ever you want about her.
@@johnfalstaff2270 Your comment is still incorrect and absurd. Acoustic recording continued into 1924. It was late in 1924 when electric recording began at the Victor studios. Trust me - you have nothing to teach me. So find someone else to “try to correct”.
@@MrRicksStudio, do not insist like a boring boob. One year or another makes no difference today, 100 years later. No one can try to correct me. Why did you remove your initial post? Because you were wrong. Find someone else to argue
Great comparison.
I understand what you are saying.
I guess someone with so strong a general claim as the "greatest tenor ever" is just picked apart more. You don't hear McCormack being hailed as the greatest tenor ever nearly so much (and certainly not Schipa.) If they were I'm sure they'd have similar detractors. It's true of course that we can't FULLY judge the greatness of any of these turn of century singers, I guess. Anyway great video thanks
Hear, hear !
Covent Garden wasn't the Faustspielhaus for nothing! This is also seriously good : ruclips.net/video/Mr0d_PYKDMI/видео.html
Sorry that's the 1938 "Boheme."
Artists don't appreciate being scaled to each other for good reasons. It might even be considered vulgar. Nellie Melba has a beautifully formed Bel Canto which can hardly be fully realized in a 1910 recording while Geraldine Farrar has perhaps greater strength, power and expression. Both are just beautiful. I wish I could have been there in each case.
Both versions are thrilling!!! Oh , but , how I love Caruso and Farrar.
In der "Vor-Mikrofon-Ära" sind
*Höhen* und *Tiefen* besonders
problematisch wiederzugeben
Wie die Restauration immer besser
wurde, ist auch ihre Wiedergabe zu
pflegen: Die Übertragungs-Kette ist
so stark wie das schwächste Glied!
EQUALIZER Variante
'Caruso EQ Referenz'
(update Einstellung!)
*©2024* HL, Germany.
-01,0 dB (60Hz)
-12,9 dB (230Hz)
-15,0 dB (910Hz)
-15,0 dB (4kHz)
+15,0 dB (14kHz)
Die kleine Mühe der EQ-
Einstellung lohnt sich....
Probieren Sie bitte mit Handy-
Steuerung die o a. EQ-Angabe
Es *ergibt einen besseren Ton.*
Sprung fast "Mono zu Stereo"!
Der Eintrag wird ergänzt, weil es sehr unterschiedliche EQ gibt. Er bezieht sich hier auf eine kostenlose *'Bass Booster App' 🎧 - ohne* das Zuschalten des BASS BOOST. Die meisten gehen ja mit Bluetooth in ihrem Gerät/Handy richtig um: Audio-Output Stereo, 'Advanced settings' überprüfen, *'Compatibility* Mode' der *App* und evtl 'Sound Field FLAT' Ihrer Anlage (den BBoost nicht - oder vorsichtig verwenden).
Auf *Artikulation* und Instrumente achten; dann wird der Effekt deutlich: differenzierterer Klang - trotz nur Aufnahmehorn - ohne Mikro. "Ohr des Dionysios". Es ist *beeindruckend!*
Modulation mit 'Bass Booster App':
Der Klangcharakter der Stimmen wird dadurch nicht geändert. Weil jedoch die mMn. *kaum hörbaren* Obertonanteile >>2kHz crescendo-verstärkt werden, gewinnt die Wiedergabe stark an Brillanz (selbst die Akustik wirkt realer) und *Text* ist besser verständlich. Eine 'Zeitreise'..
*EQ-Regelung* ist *KEINE* Änderung einer mgl. zugrunde liegenden Restauration. Sie wirkt wie z.B. eine 'Kirchenorgel stimmen' oder eine 'OhrBrille' und kann (bei alten Aufnahmen fast stets) zu brillanterem Kontrast der Wiedergabe führen. Das Schöne ist, dass es ohne großen Aufwand erreicht wird. Wer die Musikanlage vom Handy aus (Bluetooth Audio) steuert, sollte damit keine Probleme haben. Intensität der BBooster-(EQ) App bitte *vollständig* nutzen; Gesamtlautstärke ggf auf der externen Anlage einstellen!
Es ist NICHT leicht, mittels eines EQ eine merkliche Besserung der Klangqualität antiker Aufnahmen zu finden! Hierzu gibt's *kein* Preset. Die angegebene Präzisionseinstellung© hat hunderte Stunden meist kleiner Schritte der Verfeinerung erfordert (durch Abgleich vieler historischer Aufnahmen u. a. von ECaruso, LTetrazzini, Orgel, Violine, Klavier usw. - mit WFurtwängler, ATatum, KRichter, ACortot, SFiorentino etc), um alle Praxistests zu bestehen. Insofern ist nur *exakte, genaueste* ! Befolgung wirklich zielführend in "die 1. Reihe".
@rupepill You are right. If perfection is defined as an absolute, it is hardly attainable by anyone in arts. That would correspond to definition 2. in a brilliant wikipedia article on "perfection":
1. which is complete - which contains all the requisite parts;
2. which is so good that nothing of the kind could be better;
3. which has attained its purpose.
I fully agree with you that Caruso was striving for perfection and part of that was singing his heart and soul to the fullest of his abilities
The Italian version is forgotten already here are the lyrics,
MEFISTOFELE
All’erta, all’erta, o più tempo non è!
Se tardate ancor, salvarvi non potrò!
MARGHERITA
Vedi tu il demon, il demon là, nell’ombra?
Fissa su noi l’occhio infernal!
Scacciarlo dêi da questo santo asil!
MEFISTOFELE
Lasciam queste mura, l’aurora apparì.
Con l’unghia sonora non odi i
destrier
che battono il suol?
Vien, non tardar;
forse a salvarla hai tempo ancora!
MARGHERITA
Signor, soccorri a me!
FAUST
Vieni!
MARGHERITA
O Dio,te solo imploro!
FAUST
Vieni, fuggiam!
MARGHERITA
O del ciel angeli immortali,
deh, mi guidate con voi lassù!
Dio giusto, a te m’abbandono!
Buon Dio, m’accorda il tuo perdono!
FAUST
Dêi, venir, io lo vo’!
MEFISTOFELE
Ci affrettiam!
FAUST
Vien, fuggiam di qua,
già sorge il sol!
MEFISTOFELE
L’ora suona; già spunta il dì!
Già spunta il sol, fuggiam!
FAUST
Margherita!
Thanks for the comparison. One trick which sometimes works is to listen to the recording from another room. This tends to eliminate hearing a lot of the scratches. To be honest, I like both the same as each interpretation has its own uniqueness.
It is good to get an idea of Melba in the more dramatic parts of the role - her intonation even allowing for early recording is better than Farrar's. Her singing style reflects the late 1800s. Harder for us to appreciate now perhaps, but singers such as Mary Garden who heard Melba live said how amazing her singing could be.
SENCILLAMENTE MARAVILLOSO
MARAVILLOSAS VOCES
Melba is the most amazing and wonderful singer EVER
Steve
Since Victor and HMV were the pretty well the same companies (Victor recordings when released in Europe were on HMV and vice-versa for European recordings released in the US) I would think these were not recordings released to compete with each other as in the way Victor and Columbia recordings did. I agree with your comments; that's some lame argument Mingo (where's the do?) fans use to say why Mingo shouldn't be compared to Caruso!
You're insulting Domingo for no high C on a video with John McCormack in it? Caruso ducked most C's in his career as well...
Being a lover of opera:excellente done!
NELLI MELBA REMEK ÉNEKSNŐ VOLT,.. volt egy film az életéről igazi sztár volt,,,,
Another thing to note, or an unanswered question: Why was the baritone Sammarco cast as the basso cantante Mefisto?
Zriter59 Escritor Good question. But Gounod's Méphistophélèles is quite high for a bass, even edging into baritone turf in the character's three arias. In Sammarco's day, baritones were expected to have some richness and depth of sound, and to carry full sonority all the way down the bass staff.
Non importa il volume o il colore...ognuno ha il suo...e ogni orecchio recepisce in modo diverso....quello che conta è come l'artista esprime il personaggio....il fraseggio...l'intonazione.....la pronuncia....
When there were singers who had both talent and character. They were known the world over. Nowadays who ever hears of any opera singer?
Granted I've never much cared for Melba. Her voice has always struck me as thin and tinny. But I hadn't expected Farrar to sound richer, as she does here. Journet is, predictably, excellent. Caruso is better than McCormack but the latter is barely audible on the previous record. Caruso of course has a much bigger and richer voice than McCormack's, but the Irish tenor's technique at his best could very well have made this one of his best roles --
Would have loved to hear this in French
I have listened to many duets of Caruso with the ladies. It is obvious, being a gentleman, he always was further from the recording horn. even in the trio's and quartets, same thing. No doubt his voice carried with volume and penitration.
Ian Kaye
No one has mentioned the famous story about the Melba-Mc version, so here it is. he was late for the session causing a great row with Nellie so that neither were in their best voice. John sounds like he is standing outside with the horses rather than Sammarco
@GermanOperaSinger -Yes,small things amuse small minds. Very well said GOS.
Потрясающе! Бесподобно!
The second record is by far the best. All three singers sound much richer and fuller than their counterparts in the other version.
AUS DER GOLDENEN ÄRA
I love the rendition by Bjorling, Moore and Dickson also.
There is no doubt melba had a wonderful natural VOICE with great beauty .however, trained OPERA singers KNOW she sang her middle high notes with a raised LARYNX instead of level or slightly lowered larynx. This gave her at times sounding like a tugboat whistle. If she opened the back of her throat and lowered her LARYNX even slightly, she would have had a more rounded tone with more projection and beauty .Both TENORS obviously allowed both Sopranos to be closer to the microphone (horn) not only for polightness, but because in those days Sopranos at the METROPOLITAN where almost always the featured performers. In Italy, the TENORS where the featured performers at that time.
Ian KAYE
Beautifully sung.TY GOS for this great post.
MARVELOUS BOTH CASTS!!!
What language are they singing?? It's obviously not French, not italian either!!!
Lingua opera
Donde está Caruso?
Magistral!!!
All Stars vs. Bush Leagues!
Is there a version where you just have the Caruso/Farrar?
where can i find the sheet music to this beautiful piece?