Kiesel VS .Strandberg* | Headless Hardware Shootout | Guitar Craft
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Hello internet!
Rob from A Minor Error with a new video comparing the hardware of two very popular headless guitar manufacturers...Kiesel and Strandberg. Both of these companies offer a well made guitar, but there are some large differences between the two companies.
First off, Kiesel currently doesn't offer a tremolo system for a multi scale guitar. Kiesel relies mostly on Hip Shot hardware, and currently Hip Shot doesn't make a tremolo for a multi scale. This is where Strandberg is the clear winner, and part of reason why my main guitar for leads is a Strandberg and not a Kiesel currently.
Kiesel however is a full custom shop guitar manufacturer which means when you order one direct you can customize all aspects of the guitar to any wood, color, multi scale or traditional scale lengths. The Hip Shot hardware on my Kiesel Vader VM7 is very reliable and very well made. It isn't as cosmetically appealing in my opinion though, and if you have to have a tremolo on your multi scale guitar, that will be a deal breaker.
The Strandberg's system is proprietary from them and it's very well made. Both the fixed bridge and the tremolo system is well made with high quality aluminum components, and it's been designed to replace components as they wear. I have had some problems with reliability gigging my OS Boden Original on older strings. The nut would all of a sudden loose the ability to hold the string in place and then the string would break all together. I also have a problem on string changes with my Boden Metal 8 in that strings won't clear the gap between the nut and the small silver disc inside the locking nut.
At the end of the day, I love both of these brands and find that they both are offering something that the other company isn't. The customization of ordering a brand new Kiesel is undeniably cool and the Hip Shot hardware is as dependable as anything I've ever played. On the flip side, Strandberg guitars are offering a tremolo with a multi scale guitar that really no other major brands are offering. The endure neck, and body design is also so comfortable and unique.
0:00 - Intro
0:52 - Kiesel Guitars
2:54 - Strandberg Guitars
4:37 - Differences and Problems
8:05 - Conclusions
#kiesel #strandberg #shootout
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello internet...my name is is Rob Craft and welcome to my youtube channel!
'A Minor Error' is the creative home for all things I do in music: instrumental progressive metal music, product reviews, tip videos and free music lessons. Leave me a comment or question, I try and reply to all comments within a day!
I'm a Berklee College of Music Grad and I've been based out of Philly teaching and gigging in music for the over the last 10 years in various bands. I play guitar, trumpet, bass, piano and ukulele and offer online private music lessons. Send me an email to aminorerrorrocks@gmail.com if you're interested in booking a zoom lesson.
Stop by my bandcamp to buy tabs from my songs and videos.
Follow me on all the socials:
Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/7Ijy3...
Bandcamp: aminorerror.bandcamp.com
Instagram: / aminorerror
Facebook: / aminorerrorrocks
Great video! About the discs, they're not needed on the wound strings. I took mine out of the 6th, 7th, and 8th strings. They're really there for the plain strings so they don't snap when you tighten them down. Also, about the 0 fret. I had a Classic 6 that would ping like crazy, but I never really used it because I wasn't inspired to play it. However, my Original 8 has the grooves, but doesn't ping at all. Maybe the grooves have dug in far enough to where the string doesn't pop out anymore? Who knows.
Hey dude, thanks for coming back and checking out my newest video! I'm def gonna take your tip and take them out on my 8 string on the lower strings. I've been lucky to not have any 0 fret ping on any of my guitars!
As a builder I find these types of videos very helpful. Things like "not double locking", fiddly nut lock designs, "traditional strap button locations", and tonal differences between a nut and a zero fret. As a player for 40+ years, I'm all too familiar with that last one, but not all builders might be. Excessive zero fret wear is indicative of a poor material choice for the zero fret, such as nickel silver fret wire as opposed to stainless steel. I prefer a metal nut with no tonal differences and no wear issues, such as a Floyd rose or a Steinberger.
Thanks for watching! Kiesel doesn't do the zero fret thing so that doesn't really apply to them. Strandberg uses stainless steel frets on all of their guitars and they've long used a harder stainless steel fret for the 0 fret to help with premature wear and tear.
I’m not really much of a metal guy so I’m not exactly the target audience of headless guitars, but the strandberg’s ergonomic system always interested me. I instantly ordered the sälen jazz as soon as I saw it (from Sweetwater since they do their own QC) and it was wonderful. It’s built very well, plays incredibly, and most importantly is comfortable, which I can’t say for any guitar besides it now thanks to carpal tunnel that I developed 2 years ago. The endurneck alone would have been enough for me to consider strandberg as my only choice, but it’s also got all the upsides of the headless system, and I’m very happy with what I got.
Ironically I’ve gotten into bass a lot recently so it’s sat around collecting dust more than it usually would, but until we get a 6 string strandberg bass I’m going to have to wait for that purchase as well. When it comes to ergonomics strandberg is king, and frankly that is now the most important thing for me at this point. Thank god they also sound good.
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment, I def agree about the ergonomics 1000%. That's a good call about ordering from Sweetwater, I get all mine from Musicians Friend and they def don't do a good job making sure guitars are on the level before shipping them out. The bass looks really cool but I haven't had a chance to play one. Joe Calderone of Arch Echo plays bass on my original music and he just got one in and has been laying down bass tracks on the Strandberg bass and I'm loving the tone so far. Can't wait to get out the new stuff I've been recording, hope you stop back in check it out.
i love the scale on the strandbergs. most brands have very aggressive frets. strandbergs fit well for smaller hands
Thanks for watching, I def agree!
I really love my Vader. I don't play multiscale buy I have heard jeff kiesel mention that he doesn't feel like there is a multuscale trem that works well enough to put on his guitars, and that he doesn't wanna take your money for a bridge he doesn't believe in. I would definitely like to see him find a bridge he would feel comfortable putting on his guitars for those that want a multiscale with a trem. Great video! Liked and subscribed
Thanks for the kind words and the sub! I've gotten a bunch of comments to take a look at Sophia tremolo's, there's a couple great smaller companies using those right now. IMO I wish Jeff would consider going with a multi scale tremolo, I'd def buy one! I'm kinda surprised Hipshot hasn't put one out yet either, hopefully that'll change sometime soon!
@@aminorerror I have seen a Kiesel with multi scale trem on RUclips. Perhaps a prototype? But looks like it is coming.
@@gingataff Yes! They just announced a multi scale tremolo bridge for the headless guitars (this video is over a year old). I just put out a new video talking about how exciting it is that there's some other companies innovating. Thanks for watching, here's the new video:
ruclips.net/video/cb3xdULHLDg/видео.html
I agree 100% on strandberg stealing business from kiesel with the multiscale trem option, tbh Rob that’s the main reason why I bought my prog 6, 2 yrs ago, been waiting 5 yrs and got tired of waiting for a multiscale trem from kiesel lol. If they would of had that as an option I’d be on my 3rd kiesel and it would have a multiscale trem. Either way both guitars are amazing, I do prefer kiesel just because of the customizing options. As for the endurneck I’m take it or leave it. Another great review! I think you hit every point perfectly on the pros and cons vs each brand. By far the best video review between the 2 brand I’ve seen to date imo.
Thanks for coming back and leaving a comment! Appreciate your support for my content and kind words! I'm surprised your not more of a fan of the endurneck although I get it's not for everyone. For me it really helps me play longer with less pressure on my wrist. Hopefully Hipshot will come out with a multi scale tremolo system SOMETIME soon. Honestly I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to release it.
@@aminorerror for my experience personally, between my 6 string kiesel and my prog 6 there’s not a big difference in fatigue when playing for me, when I had my prog7 for the short while I did, I did notice a difference between that more with fatigue compared to my Kiesel VM7. I think the multi scale and neck profile definitely lends itself to playing longer and having less stress and fatigue when playing on a 7 string in my experience, but on the 6 it never notice a real difference with fatigue tbh. I would love to get a prog 7 again for that reason.
Keep up the great content!
Brudda i am really looking forward to this one, i own a headless Kiesel and want a Strandberg, never held one in my hands
Thanks dude! As always, just giving my honest opinions on the two different companies. Hope this video helps you make your choice in the future.
@@aminorerror im sure it will!
Amazing video. What kind of fretboard did you get on your vader?
Thanks for watching and commenting! It's a Zebrawood finger board, and I got seriously lucky with a great cut of wood on my guitar. Kiesel makes such a solid instrument, you really can't go wrong.
now that kiesel has multiscale trems for both headless and non headless guitars, I'd like to see an update. I have a Vader 7 multiscale with trem build saved on the online builder....just waiting to pull the trigger. lol II have a multiscale 8 zeus from them, and I love it.
Thanks for watching, it's def in my plans to check one out in the next year! I've talked to a few people (they are Kiesel artists but still) who say the hipshot trem is solid so I guess take that with a grain of salt. The obvious issue is you won't be able to return it if you don't like it or it doesn't perform well. Good luck!
Your concerns with the Strandberg hardware have been addressed with the NX line. If you can get ahold of one, they are a significant improvement
Thanks for watching and commenting, I just got an Prog NX 7 in for review and I def agree! The nut is much improved, as is the bridge.
They cheapened up a lot of stuff on the NX line. Plus you can get a Vader neck through for a grand less than a Strandberg
I have 3 Kiesel Vaders. One hard tail and 2 with tremolo. My BIGGEST complaint is the way that Kiesel bevels the edges of the frets allows both the E and the e to slip off easily during playing. I am considering refretting all of them. I noticed that Strandbergs have a better finish on the edges of their frets, so my next guitar may be a Strandberg.
Sorry to hear about the fretting out issues you're having with your Kiesel's! The Strandberg's I've all played don't have that issue, but I have ran into the most severe fret sprout that it borders on straight up bad fret work in general. I think you'll be happy with a Strandy, but I'd recommend buying one only if you can potentially return it if you get a dud. Thanks for watching and commenting too, best of luck!
@@lotechrevolt4513 He was talking about the problem of the guitar being overly easy to fret out, and if that's the case there's not really anything you can do to fix that issue. The fret spout I talked about can be fixed of course, but IMO they shouldn't have that issue to begin with. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hey Rob I meant to ask -- any initial thoughts on Ibanez throwing their hat into the headless arena? I'm hearing some kind of questionable stuff regarding their application of fanned frets, though I'm interested in hearing how their tuning system fares to Strandberg's. I guess it won't be long before Jackson, Fender, and everyone else have their own headless offering LOL?! Just kidding, I know that ain't happenin' LOL..
Hi Steve! I'm stoked Ibanez is FINALLY jumping into the headless market, IDK what took them so damn long though! I don't have any experience with any multi scale Ibanez guitars and haven't played the new headless ones yet either, but I hope QC is on point. I'm a big Ibanez fan, but I'm not sure the new headless designs are really my cup o' tea. They did a great job selecting some great artists to help promote them so I'm hoping it's successful and maybe I'll be able to get my hands on one eventually!
@@aminorerror Well they're definitely not going to win any awards for some of their aesthetic choices right out of the gate LOL, which is surprising to me because Ibanez is usually great in that category! I'll be interested to see if they add trem models and make any innovations of their own. I'm honestly surprised they didn't do more themselves initially; they're usually ahead of the curve, not behind. Just my opinion, of course..!! :) :P
I'm def surprised they don't have any tremolo models yet, even though they're rolling out the headless thing for the first time. When I personally think Ibanez, I think guitars with arguably the best tremolo system out there so I really hope they come up with one to go along with it. I'd love to see some Prestige range guitars in 7 string setups with a tremolo, that would be sick! Only time will tell....
Thanks for the video. I have a Kiesel Headless Delos with trem and have been curious how Strandberg compares. I find the tuning stability to be really good on the Kiesel, but I have had occasional issues with the high E string slipping at the nut.
Hi! Thanks for watching and commenting, I haven't had a chance to play a trem equipped Kiesel yet so I'm curious how the hipshot stuff compares too actually! I've had that same slippage problem on my fixed bridge Vader with the Hipshot hardware. Not real sure of a fix either, and it's pretty inconsistent with the slippage so I'm not sure about the fix either. Congrats on the Delos, those looks sick! Like I said in the video here, the Strandberg hardware is totally on the level though, and being able to get a multiscale with a tremolo really is cool.
@@aminorerror Yeah it seems pretty random. It can be fine for months, and will then will suddenly start slipping. Other times it's been immediately evident during a string change because it will keep slipping as I tune it up. I prefer to not overtighten the screws at the nut, but I have tried to tighten the high E as much as possible at times and it still slipped. I've also tried doubling back the end of the string into the slot so it has more surface area to tighten. Everything I have done has ultimately given inconsistent results, so I'm not sure what the best fix is.
Nuts dude, yours is def much worse than mine although I'll have to admit I've been tightening it a bit more than ideal to keep it locked in. I've also had problems with slippage just before a string break on my Berg's too so idk if it's just because of the headless design? Never had a problem like that with any Ibanez locking nut.
u didnt do a review on how to afford these two fantastic axe!
Hahaha that's the real trick isn't it! lol
I own two Strandbergs: Original 7 and Standard NX6. From my experience the O7 is a spectacular playing guitar! The NX6 has it's advantages with the newer hardware but the build quality feels 'off' when compared to the O7. When I got my O7 I had to do a single setup and hardly had to do much else with it since then. I will admit the hardware on the old models are a little clunky which thankfully hasn't been a major issue besides needing to tune every once in a while. The standard NX6 is overall fine, I find myself always needing to adjust the height of the strings to my liking almost every time I wanna play it, and the newer hardware is less clunky than the old one.
As for Kiesel, almost every guitar I tried by them have been very nice. They're builds are quality.
The NX Indo Strandy's have def had some QC problems but if you can get a good one the quality is right there with the OS line. I've only ever played one OS guitar and it was outstanding but I wonder how that factory did on consistency, they might have been putting out some duds too. Thanks for watching, I've got two new strandy reviews in the works, hope you'll stop back when they're out. Rock on!
Finally able to watch this.
First of all, awesome video, awesome production and presentation.
Secondly. One of my honest impressions after watching this. When you were talking about the Strandberg and the silver rivet issues at the lock nut or whatever. And also the issues in general. I might be a bit upset to spend that level of money on an instrument and it feature those minor issues. Somewhat dulls my excitement on the Strandberg. Would you still recommend one? And do you know if Ola has updated any of the hardware since your particular model? Not sure if some of this was alleviated recently or if they're still being made the same way.
Also, i don't think you mentioned this in particular, it's something I'm just curious about. Since i own a Kiesel, i can 100% attest to the quality of the fretboard, fretwork, it's absolutely befitting of custom shop level work. The best playing guitar I've owned and maybe ever held. Does the Strandberg stand up? Id think so, but I've seen various kinds of review online, some were skeptical of where their guitars are now produced, is it an Indonesian factory?
Then real quick wanna add a note about Kiesels lately, if anyone else is reading... my buddy just ordered his second one, gonna be a $3000 buckeye lightspeed lol. But. Kiesel rn is completely blown up with business. Their build times used to be 12-16 weeks, i got mine in right under 10 weeks, but now, my buddy got quoted 20-23 weeks. Also they had a price increase in January and they're having another in July. Since you made the point about kiesels being spec'd out for $2200, i just wanted to mention that the kind of options you'll be able to get for that price is decreasing because of their absurd level of business, and also because inflation is retarded and so is California. However it's still probably the best most affordable, most customizable custom shop guitar money can buy. Theyre just starting to get really big for their britches.
Anyway tho again much respect, loved the informative vid on this topic! For the record i do wish kiesel would do SOMETHING with the head part...i know its headless but... damn do something succinct and suave like Ola did haha
Thanks for coming back and checking out the video!
The issues I was talking about with the hardware hasn't been on every Strandberg I've played, it's kinda like weird quirks on specific guitars. The silver rivet isn't a problem when I restring my OS Boden, or on other Strandberg's I've played, but it is a problem on my Metal 8.
IMO the strandberg build quality is there...IF you get a good one. It's really the fret sprout issue that I've talked about that's been the recurring issue on half of the Indo made models, so I'd recommend only buying if you can potentially return it. That said, the Fusion, Classic and OS Boden (Korean made) are all up to Kiesel level and the Prog that I recently tested was an amazing guitar, if it wasn't for the damn fret sprout. The overall build quality, tone, and ergonomic design is unmatched.
Like you said, the build time of a Kiesel and the increase in price is something to consider but you can always buy one off their available now page, and there's always some killer builds available. If you strip the guitar down you can also get one amazing work horse for under 2k which is a crazy great value.
Thanks again for your kind words and support of the channel! It really means a lot, and I've got lots of other content on the way as well as new original music!
@@aminorerror very nice informative reply 👌 I'll just be selective whenever i do eventually pick a Strandberg. And you're absolutely correct about the options on a Kiesel. Reverb also has a lot of great grabs on Kiesels, you can also Affirm loan it from Reverb, so folks can immediately get one on a fair payment plan. And i forgot you mentioned a song you wrote with the vader and the strandberg, i need to check that out! I'll be here bro, you got an awesome channel with lotsa shit i love😁
Thanks dude! Here's song links to tunes off my newest EP using just the Vader and OS Original:
ruclips.net/video/Si0BMCRfJOM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/gUZFQrY1fsU/видео.html
Kiesel for me. I mostly play hardtail so the customization and USA build quality is more on par with my interests.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I totally agree. The build quality is great and being made right here in the good ol' USA is awesome. I've got new videos going live every Monday at 9am EST, hope you'll stop back n check em out. Rock on!
I heard that the high frets access is terrible on the strandberg is it true ??
There's a tiny bit of truth there, but for the most part I'd disagree. The old Strandy neck joint can be limiting but only if you're playing fret 23 or 24. Anything lower and it's a breeze because of how ergonomic the body shape is. Strandberg also just updated the neck joint with the NX model and while I haven't had a chance to play one yet, it looks to me like that problem at the very upper end should be gone. Best of luck!
@@aminorerror thanks for your answer
The NX neck joint is the next best thing to a true neck through. Great access now.
I bought my Strandberg because it had the tremolo.
Same here!
I love my Strandberg but don’t get me wrong , they could do better hardware wise .
Update : Kiesel multiscale tremolo is available
Yep, that's true! Thanks for watching, here's my updated video:
ruclips.net/video/cb3xdULHLDg/видео.htmlsi=AprumZ2M4Gs4OdlB
Update: Kiesel now has a multi-scale trem
Thanks YES they do! This video is obviously pretty old now, I've got a current one talking about it here. Thanks for watching!
ruclips.net/video/cb3xdULHLDg/видео.html
I'm here wondering how the Ibanez Q holds up against these....
You and me both! They're on my short list of guitars to check out sooner than later. Thanks for watching
@@aminorerror pleasure sir. You got great and practical content. Would love to see you review the Quest series man. Budget wise it's a very good choice but I want a comparison done by a veteran like yourself. 🙏🙏🙏
You can get a strandberg for 1500 though so I think his value point is irrelevant
Thanks for watching, you're right you can get a Strandy for $1500 but they're the more budget models and there's obviously no customization available either. They're all mass produced guitars, and that's not the case with Kiesel.
More like 1795 before taxes.. Kiesels are in that same range depending what you want.
Im torn.... i want a strat style 7 string , headless with tremolo and kiesel headless delos is perfect but i dont like the customer service
Then the strandberg has a strat style classic 7 string but no tremolo
And i dont like the neck
But my god... its gonna cost 3 k for the headless delo 7 string with trem , bro if you know any other brand that would do a strat style 7 string headless with trem please let me know
Or im gonna have to go with the delos and hope to god the service is okay and the guitar is okay when it gets here 6 months later
I've heard all the horror stories too with Kiesel's customer support...but I think it's worth the risk. They really do make a very solid instrument, at a great price for what you're getting. If you're ordering one custom just make sure you get the sales rep on the phone and ask every single question you can possibly think of before pulling the trigger. That seems to be the root of the issues, when people wind up getting something different than expected and they always seem to default to playing hardball about it. Maybe just buy one used or off the available now page so you know exactly what you're ordering. Thanks for watching!
None who has ever played a Kiesel would even ask strand isn't even close
My subs specifically asked for this video.
Multi-scale...A great marketing bullshit!
Disagree. You've obviously never tried to go drop A or drop Ab on a 25.5" scale length. It doesn't work.