Dungeons & Dragons: Which edition is best?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Have you seen those arguments about the different editions of Dungeons and Dragons?
Which one is best? Is 1st edition AD&D best? Or maybe 4th edition? Do you have a favorite edition?
Aten breaks down the different editions and versions of Dungeons & Dragons from its first inception "Chainmail" from 1971 until the most recent 5th edition.
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This video is getting a lot of down votes. Those darn 4e players I guess? :p I'm truly grateful for all of the positive upvotes and engaging comments! It's been very interesting to hear everyone's feedback and I'll definitely need to discuss these different versions more with a future upload! Thanks!
I'm assuming, based on subsequent remarks, that the comment about 4e players was made in fun. Speaking as one who self-identifies as a non-judgmental 4er.
@@7thsealord888 yeah im just teasing, i mean this video has received a bunch of down votes but the upvotes are by far much greater. And a rules system can't really be used an excuse for not roleplaying. I love the 1980s TSR ,marvel superheroes game and generally people hate it so its all subjective.
@@welovettrpgs People will downvote for the dumbest reasons, and unless they comment and explain why they downvoted you may never know. Internet, amirite? 🤷♂
4E was by a long shot the best balanced system, and you can see the echoes of it in 5E (and many 5E DMs backport features such as 'bloodied' and 'minions') - but there were aspects of it that made it hard to run high level combats ... mainly just too many buffs and debuffs to keep track of.
I think they had a changing of the guard at some point with 4E, and the new guys really didn't buy into the whole 'balance is a good thing' philosophy, which is a huge missed opportunity.
I want the character creation balance - and encounter design - of 4E, and really simple/fast combats.... but they might be diametrically opposed goals. 😕
@@Merlinstergandaldore some people take the game way too seriously lol
'Best' is, of course, subjective as you say - but my personal favourite is 1st Edition Advanced. It sings to me more than any of the others, but that doesn't suggest I dislike the others. Each adds something different or interesting. I actively run 1e, 5e, and Old School Essentials and enjoy them all for different reasons, but 1e is the one I love the most.
You are everywhere, Mage's Musings! ;-) Hello again, friend. heh
@@KabukiKid Like a bad penny, I always turn up! 😁
Bravo, of course I moved to d100 in the 80s
But still run 1st 2nd and maybe 3rd for grognards and newbies
Presently running Traveller 5, a hero system spy game and Coc
4e is in my opinion still the best edition.
The ease of encounter building and varying enemies, characters that feel like something more than just the "ordinary people" even at low levels, opportunities and abilities martial classes can have, as well as the classes it has that have not been seen elsewhere i.e. Seeker, Warlord and Avenger.
All tied neatly to easy to read system that once you know how to work with, combat becomes faster than 5e, 3.5(or PF) and much more cinematic, including the skill challenges that make scenes like escaping from the city or invading a stronghold much more tied to a narrative while being guided by the skill tests.
Even beyond 4e, we still use minions, bloodied etc. in other non-D&D games and it makes sharing information much easier among the group.
I'll do a video about 4e in the future. I'm glad you enjoy that edition and nobody should shame you for that. And my opinions are all subjective truths, not objective truths. I do think you pointed out one of the problems though with 4e (and 5e) is characters are very much supposed to feel like ordinary people at first. It's like people who want to play 5E exploit builds such as the "Coffee-lock." If you've already "won the game" before you start then what's the point in even playing? 4e (and in many ways 5E) would be great rules systems for a Marvel Superheroes game (which btw I really enjoyed the original TSR Marvel Superheroes RPG from the 80s, even though others slam it and I have never been a big fan of comic books) but D&D should never be comparable to a Superhuman superpowered killing machine until after a long journey of working and building your creation. It's something called "The Hero's Journey." Anyway, D&D has always offered different styles of gaming for different people's tastes and that's a good thing. Thanks for stopping by and checking out the videos!
@@welovettrpgs Though if you can make a strength 20+ human or a spell-slinging dwarf at level 1, Isn't he already quite "super human"?
I've always viewed all of the player character's as something more, no PC is ever just a guy, unless the player specifically asks for it.
Also, powerful characters can also have heroes' journeys.(edit: i.e. Heracles)
@@Eemi_Seppala Hi, unless a person forms their opinions based on faulty information (like they were the victim of propaganda from others with an agenda) nobody has the right to ever tell them they are wrong. Subjective truths. And nothing you have said is wrong. So I hope you didn't feel that way. Like I say in the video, I'm just glad we're all enjoying the hobby. Best wishes!
I agree
Whatever edition you’re playing is a good one.
I’ve since the 1AD&D game skipping 4th. I still DM and play 3.5. We also play 5e.
Yes the new 5e is a dumb name
I think it's a marketing thing so people dont think they have to stop buying current 5e stuff for the next year.
I've been calling it 5😱EEEEE!
I've played D&D Starting with Holmes up to 5e. For my current needs, as a solitary player (no DM), BX is perfect. Less is more. My most successful campaign was with AD&D2e. Not because of the rules but because of the stability of the group. With 5e I almost beat my 2e record but Covid threw a wrench into the group's cohesion.
I dont think I'll ever top the group(s) and time I DMed with 2E AD&D, but that remains to be seen. My current 5E group is great and I have 2 players from previous groups (one player from my long standing campaign in the late 80s and one from my long campaign in the latter half of the 90s.) I have been DMing my current group using Fantasy Grounds VTT which has allowed my players (who are all spread out across the country) to meet virtually.
@@welovettrpgs Cool. The 5e D&D group didn't transition to VTT. I have a new group using VTT. We play anything but D&D alternating GMs and RPGs. I like the format. Not always the same person GMing. It's fun to be a player.
My best are AD&D and B/X followed closely by BECMI and 3e. They all do a great job of what they were intended to do and I'll play any version. I found over the years the most important factor is who you're playing with.
Love the Grenadier mini artwork, I grew up with that as well. Decades pater I found out they were located one town over in Springfield PA.
"...12-hour marathon sessions..." More like half- or three-quarter marathons, but yeah, having a proper amount of time to really get into a good gaming session was _so_ nice. That's one of the things I miss from "the good old days," one of the luxuries we had that we didn't realize were luxuries, like eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. Ah, well, "youth is wasted on the young" as Oscar Wilde said. Or was it George Bernard Shaw?
I completely agree with you about which edition is the best edition. Although I mostly played _AD&D_ and _AD&D 2nd Ed.,_ the most "D&D" I played was actually a system by Bard Games called _Arcanum._ It was extremely similar to actual D&D, but had some rules that seemed to make more sense than some of the D&D rules, so we went with it. And it was great for generating lots of fun sessions, some of them those half- and three-quarter and even full marathons aforementioned. I played _AD&D_ and _AD&D 2nd Ed_ before, during and after "the _Arcanum_ years" and it all feels the same in my memory: sword-and-sorcery fantasy role-playing gaming with minor differences in settings and rules, but the same overall effect of enjoyment.
Ok you won me over with the Oscar Wilde / George Bernard Shaw reference. lol So many weekends we would start playing on Friday night after school and dinner and maybe take a break Saturday afternoon and get back to playing until the we hours Sunday morning. My players learned the "Aten Exploit" which was "If we keep Aten awake too long he starts getting really generous with the treasure."
That AD&D player handbook has seen some wars.
it has, weird thing is my 2nd edition core books are in worse shape than my first edition books. I think the the binding on the 1st edition was done better, maybe.
@@welovettrpgs
The slice came off of mine, I had to fix it with tape. And the thread came loose and some pages are flyers now.
Still, the books saw some heavy use, for years, from multiple people. All in all, they were quite sturdy. And they opened up to let easy photocopy.
@@welovettrpgs Yeah, those 1e books were printed by a company that did school books, so they were built for battle! ;-) Definitely better quality than what came later. Even the "1.5e" books, like The Unearthed Arcana weren't printed as well as the original 1e stuff.
I've always taken ideas from other DnD games and other TTRPGS to create the game I want.
I never play rules as written, in any edition.
I started on 3.5E then went to 4E, 1E and at last 5E. With my players we keep going back to 4E because that the edition that we enjoy the most, but it’s true all edition has cons and pros, and the best part its to apply what you really like from other editions to the edition that you play.
agreed!
4E is much better designed, because it's much better balanced. But I think that's actually one of the reasons it struggled.
Grognards didn't like it because of the balance because it meant that there wasn't really any point in investing years of figuring out what all the 'trap' options were - since there (kind of, maybe) weren't any. So they had nobody to lord it over.
(It's notable that the grognards of the time would wax lyrical over how great the last 3.5 supplement (Tome of Battle) was ... but the irony of that is that Tome of Battle basically introduced the concept of encounter powers. And thus 4E is basically a love letter from WotC to ToB). -> 4E is basically D&D where every class got hit with the ToB hammer, but in a standardised way.
And a lot of newbies struggled because it was balanced - and thus pretty much every class had the same complexity - so there wasn't really any good entry classes. WotC tried to fix this (IIRC) by making alternative fighter classes that didn't really do very much except have auras.
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But the encounters ... those were _fantastic_. With something like 8 different roles to pick from you could (in theory, not that anyone ever did) play approx 500 battles against goblins, and no two battles would be the same (so long as you picked 1-3 different roles each time but never picking the exact same combination). Playing once a week you could basically play ten years without running into repeats. (Hopefully though you'd out-level goblins pretty quickly). Goblin artillery would play differently than goblin sneaks, and they could have battlefield control and soldiers and all sorts of other options.
But then somehow they managed to also make the terrain of the battlefield unique and interesting in almost every encounter, in ways that I haven't seen before or after. So even if you did somehow play the same combo (say for instance artillery plus soldiers) each battle would feel different because of the terrain. (This is the one where we bum rushed them and pushed all their artillery over the cliff, this is the one where we channeled their soldiers through a choke point and used powers X, Y and Z to get one of our strikers up close and personal so he could blenderise their artillery)
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Also FWIW had the best magic item crafting system - without the grotesque abuses of 3.5 and without the absurd reluctance of 5E to award any treasure at all.
I liked the summary of all the editions.
''Thank You!
6:53 I knew that was coming but also you are right! You have a new subscriber.
Thank you Frank!
Haven't played all the version but have books from them all except original d&d, know most the mechanics. . . Personal I think 2nd edition is the best. It has by far the most content but I also like how the books presented themselves. Each campaign setting had so much depth as they really took the time to flesh out what they had started on in 1st. . The player customization and equipment that was/is available if you are still playing it 😂. 3rd was alright but mostly rebrand and sling products in a cash grab, which I feel is still kind of happening. Much like magic I feel there's been a power creep which takes away from the role playing aspects in the lower level. Although level progression was different I always felt it was justified as a fighter is going to learn his trade a lot easier then a magician who in later levels, gathering components, can be the basis for an adventure. Even with characters at high levels, a beholder is just as terrifying or at least possesses a much bigger threat. Just my opinion.
Ive played on and off since 1984. I prefer 4th and 5th. What I like about 4th is what everyone else hated...more wargame type mechanics less role playing theatrics. To ME it did remind me more of how my group played 1st edition....we were all about encounters and battles.
I like 5th for hooks and all...stories have gotten better so I still dont use a lot of theatrics.....shut up and roll dice....lol ....thats what i prefer.
I like and still play 3.5e. Unlike 4 and 5e, there's no level cap. It's also much easier (to me, at least) to customize characters to your liking. To be able to craft your own epic spells, to go beyond the standard norm of the game, to become so powerful as to rival deities in power and strength. That's MY game
WotC really should have taken the route as Pazio and continued working off 3.5 instead of what they did by trying to create a new / different game using D&D names and calling it D&D.
I like 4th edition a lot. It gets a bad rap. Sure it isn’t like the others but there are some really good things about it and a good game master can make any edition shine. My favorite edition due to nostalgia is 1e. Yep I’m old lol
Im planning on a video all about 4th edition. Honestly, isnt a bad game. It just isnt D&D. They went out of their way to make it not D&D. Thats the only issue. They could rebrand it as something other than D&D and it would be fine.
I grew up with AD&D. And had stopped by the time 4th rolled out. I just got back into revisiting my youth recently. Without the ton of friends i had.
I gotta say I'm liking 5th edition so far (even though i liked adding an armor system: making it easy to hit someone unless they block or tank the hit with armor).
I'm liking the game being more open and inviting to people. You can explore moral and intellectual dilemmas better with 5th.
Great insights and totally agree. We played the basic set at school in late 70s then in our teens and 20s ADnD 1e. So when we came back to it as a VTT in lockdown to keep in touch with our old group (now scattered between UK and Australia), we just dug out our old rulebooks and carried on. My younger friends love 5e and find THACO frankly baffling (and the old artwork hilarious) but it's your friends that make the game enjoyable so if it works and you're having fun then all is well in the dungeon.
Welcome back! Even if it took a pandemic! I love the old artwork! Did you see my Erol Otus video? Thanks for sharing your story!
@@welovettrpgs I'll look that up. And your vid also reminded me that our DnD club at school got closed down after parents complained about our devil worshipping activities. You have to laugh at the insanity of it now but Stranger Things it certainly was not! Darren
I started in 1977. I was interested in 4th Edition because it seemed to be the most cohesive and deliberate design of the game (which I still hold to be true). It didn’t have the Winchester Mystery House feel of the previous rulesets, and it seemed that maybe there would be an unprecedented balance between character classes.
I was surprised to see how little it felt like D&D to me. I still think the design was very good, even if it seemed a departure from the feel of previous editions. It left me wondering if wonky rules and poor balance were an integral part of D&D.
These days, I think one of the key dynamics is the emphasis on character build rather than gameplay. I loved the customization introduced in 3E, but it became the focus of the game, rather than heading out and finding adventure.
I think every edition has been a great game in its own right. I’m currently designing a rules-lite homebrew that finds a balance between customization and easy game play (and with nothing but D6’s). It will be a fun game, too, because sharing adventures with friends is always a good time.
4e to my understanding really isnt dnd. I think it's pretty well accepted that they were trying to copy warhammer? I think it's cool though whatever version anyone enjoys. Thanks for stopping by!
You left out the BECMI set, but that is forgivable, since it is basically just B/X plus more. heh Oh man... your story about your friend's mom burning his stuff happened to a guy in our group too. It was right after 60 Minutes did that segment on D&D that was extremely poorly researched, sadly. Pretty sure it was in 1985. The Mazes & Monsters movie didn't help, either. Anyway, he still came over my house and we still played D&D, but he just told his mom we were doing other stuff to soothe her and not have her worry. He even ended up buying another PHB and just kept it on a shelf at my house where we played. Crazy times.
Oh... and as for what version I love... it's basically an amalgam of B/X and AD&D 1e. It's where we started and we took bits from each version that we liked most. We still play that version to this day. heh Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy is about as close as I have seen to what we already do, so I had to buy those books just for fun and to read. :-) Excellent stuff!
oh yeah ill definitely do a video on the Satanic Panic!
keep it up, awesome content ! (3.5 I miss all those Prestige Classes, but 5.0 too because it's light and easy to learn for new players)
Thanks!
My favorite edition is 3.5/Pathfinder, but I really do think that 5E is the best edition ever. WotC really showed that they learned from the 4th/Pathfinder debacle. It is a good blend of the best parts of all the previous editions. It has customization without being overwhelming like 3/3.5. It has simplicity without being too bare bones like early editions. It has class balance without being boringly homogenous like 4th. There are some great things about 4th Edition; it was easier to be a DM planning battles in 4th.
Fourth edition isn't D&D. They slapped the name D&D on it but that doesn't change the fact it isn't D&D. They literally went out of their way to make it not D&D, even going so far as to completely screw up decades of official lore which 5E is mostly trying to correct. 4E would have been a fine game if they had just called it something other than D&D and it might even still be popular as an alternative fantasy wargame.
have played since the basic box set, always really enjoyed 2nd and loved skills and powers rules, but played all versions apart from 4th, we moved to pathfinder and stuck there but have played 5e, and Pathfinder 2e as well, favs are Skill and Powers 2e AD&D, 3.5, and Pathfinder 1e, but all are fun
Well, I hate to say it, but in light of all the recent incidents, this video is "which edition *was* best" because Hasbro and WOTC are dead to me, and I really don't care what they do in the future. So the only D&D that counts is what we've already got, which is honestly all we ever needed in the first place. I've only played 1e and 3e, and I have to go with 3, if only for the d20 system, which fixed so much of what was broken.
I was really upset ... disgusted when WotC purchased TSR and took control of D&D. I was living in Seattle working at a family owned game store at the time. Personally am not a fan of Magic the Gathering at all. I think the direction of things was very predictable. They always wanted to turn D&D into a mass marketed money making commodity. And why not, that's what a business does however in the process they forgot that D&D was never created for the masses. D&D was a small niche nerdy thinking person's game. What I wish is a smaller company dedicated to the integrity of the game had purchased TSR. However now that I have 20+ years to reflect on this there's no telling where it might be now, if it would even exist. There are some great retro clones out there that do a great job of duplicating early D&D editions but with a better presentation. On this channel I'll be covering lots of TTRPGs from all my gaming experiences.
Truth. The best edition is the edition you and your friends have fun playing.
Thanks!
I love 5e, it was the edition I sterted with and will probably be the one I stay with. But learning about other editions and seeing what makes them unique helps me understand WHY things are done they way they're done in 5e, I even take rules from those editions and incorporate them in my regular games.
Best is that mustache!
haha thanks!
2nd AD&D and a good DM.
Good point, without a good DM even the best system could seem terrible.
I play basic 1 and 2 edition I also play chivalry and socery 2 edition plus others have you played chivalry and socery it's chunky but alot of fun yah I remember kids at my church just stared I was like God knows it's a game you should too lol anyways like your channel keep up the good work
Thank you very much!!
Great take.
thank you!
The best version of Dungeons and Dragons is the one you hate. Yeah, that one. Stop lying to yourself, everyone knows you're just being a contrarian!
haha. The thing is, 4th edition isn't Dungeon & Dragons, it just uses the names. It's most closer to Chainmail from 1971, the rules on which D&D sprang from. 4th edition went in the wrong direction and tried to emulate MMORPGs and was a huge step backwards. I'm so glad they moved past it. However as stated in my video, that's just my subjective truth and I'm not gonna shame anyone for liking any edition even 4th. Everyone is welcome to have their own preferences and I think that's great.
I own almost all the versions of the game. And, I have played even more. My favorite? BECMI for quick play with at least some new players. AD&D otherwise. All the versions had issues. They all had great & bad players and good & bad DM's. So, there is no "right answer."
All that said this is the last time I will ever be able to forward that type of statement. Because WotC/Hasbro have not been good actors towards the players, DMs, fans of the Game, outside content creators, etc. So, I am done. I will not overlook their bad faith. Since my only power is in my money: I will not buy, run or play future versions of the game at this point.
WotC buying D&D was one of the worst days. I live near them and this isnt a recent thing. There's no point in time when they didnt suck. I'm surprised its lasted even this long.
Great concept. Keep going. 😊
thanks!
The answer is basic/expert.
haha
4th Edition. Done.
thats great you enjoy 4th. Somebody had to!
I have never seen so many people have so many probelms running games since 5th
I started with 1st edition, had the player book and DMG and was running games, even before I diacovered modules and Dragon Magazine, and though we made a few technical errors, we had no problems I have been a forever GM since 78,lol
In my opinion, 5th is unweidlly, bloated and so full of power jumps, if I wanted to run a Conan on steroids, there are better systems
I only run 5th, to snare new players and introduce them to other systems,
I have an opinion about the players with problems but it's not necessarily correct and it would just make people upset with me so I'll keep it to myself. :)
@@welovettrpgs lol, I think a lot of newer players are coming from pop culture and videongames and expect more pop less culture, lol
Agree with the power jumps, Also one issue is for people that started with 5E the DMG sucks and gives no real instructions on how to run the game, there is more on describing the multiverse than how to properly run an adventure.
I love all editions (not really played the first though) as I've had great memories of each. Whichever edition came out, we relished and made the best of it. I guess I have more fondness of the products of 2nd edition. 3rd edition was great fun, especially with Oriental Adventures, as it was the first time I got involved in a gaming group at a games store. Fourth edition was good to play, although it was very board-gamey and despite having plenty of action choices, it limited imagination. Also it marked a major change in its style and character choices as it clearly was designed to appeal to the Warcraft crowd at the time. Now 5th edition was great during the first half of the decade of its release and I still think it is decent as the rules are more streamlined and simple, but PCs ended up becoming over-powered too quickly and the increasing number of options for players is getting too overwhelming for its own good. I've stopped being a DM for D&D 5th edition for various reasons. However I did discover a 5th edition OGL for Middle Earth and its safe to say that I think it's the best version of the game (to me at least) because it had restraint.
Yes, most of my fond memories are with 2nd edition too but that's why I'm building new ones with my current group. Thanks for watching!
From 3e it's been a spiral down dive 😢
I tend to agree but then look who has owned it since then, which is why I was against them ever buying it. On the other hand if they hadnt bought it would D&D still even be around? I bet it would and it might be owned by some small company that respected the games origins and did think they could get rick off it.
@@welovettrpgs "de dulce y agrax" or a bittersweet/Pyrric victory... But I think it was LOTR trilogy the origin of the demise, plus the rising popularity of isekai mangas.
@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 Those could certainly be contributing factors but the history of events is pretty clear. Magic the Gathering was created by some guys who played D&D and recognized they could cash in on the genre by dumbing it down into a card game, realizing the general public was never going to go for a game with dozens of books and so many rules it was at one time on the Guinness book of records for the most difficult game ever created. So Magic the Gathering was born in attempt to market fantasy gaming to the uncomplicated masses. And TSR ended up in so much financial trouble that WotC was able to buy them out. As soon as that happened we all knew the exact course the game was going to take.
@@welovettrpgs You expressed better than I did, but those factors I mentioned before are walking aside the lack of reading, specially the Appendix N, and nobody gives a flying duck about it. Modern fantasy makes a cellphone of magic, just like a commodity, not something mysterious, unknowable AND dangerous. Besides, it' like high education or voting, in the moment you let the less gifted get in, you have to water down everything or they get offended.
@@welovettrpgs If you think Magic is simpler than D&D, you haven't played Magic. It is not a "dumbing...down". It is a FASTER game, no doubt, but not simpler.
My favorite D&D editions are 3.5 and BECMI, I don't have much interest in any of the others.
While 2nd edition AD&D is my favorite I do think 3.5 is peak D&D.
I am going to say the best is, GURPs
I know I have some GURPS books but I don't remember playing except maybe a game or two in the 80s. I do know I recently got a few GURPS pdfs to use as reference materials for something (I forget now) I was researching. Oh wait, yeah it was the GURPS post apocalyptic materials! I'm a big fan of Gamma World and I'm getting into Mutant Crawl Classics now as well.
4e and 5e player hehe
there's no shame in that.
2E, obviously. 😛😛😛
Ill forever have a deep love for 2e.
I 'm just joshing, I agree 100% with the video. What's the best D&D? Why, the one a person is having fun with.
Otherwise yes, 2E for life for this old geek
@@anon-yw4wd Thanks!
I like the cut of your jib.
Subbed.
@@anon-yw4wd Thanks!
Okay I hear you, but 4e is the very best version.
You do you buddy!
You bought Holmes basic in 1977? Okay Mr. Vampire
D&D taught me how to make blood sacrifices to Orcus!
Just be sure to use your safety tools.
@@dustanmcarthur6658 lol I have a video planned on that topic.
@@welovettrpgs oh, I'm sure.
BECMI is the best
cool!
Apples and oranges, they all do different things
Thanks!
1E and 3E are best.
Nice video, I've played and liked all editions except 4th. I think 5th is doing a lot that is good, not perfect but neither was any edition.
Thanks! I totally agree regarding 4th. That was the results of somebody at WotC having a WOW MMORPG fever dream and tried to bring it into the world of TTRPGs.
The best version of D&D is.... Pathfinder 2e ;)
yes thats a good game! dnd 3.5 I have had several moments when ive wished i had invesated all my $ into that rather than 5e dnd. But if this channel takes off ill invest in that as i have a player in my group thats a big fan of it.
@@welovettrpgs I was being mostly tongue and cheek ... But going all the way back to '82, pretty sure Pathfinder is my favorite so far.
@@voodoochild1975az oh yeah no worries i got that you were! and ill do another video where we will look at all the other rpgs. ive got a Mutant Crawl Classics vs Gamma World video in the works even.
I came into the game BECMI and plan to leave it that way. Throughout the decades and editions, that is the one which rules my table. I gave up on hasbro's dnd after 3e but have played all the other editions over the years too. But today, BECMI is it. Run it b/x level of basic or add the options that came later. It's the only system you really need. Also the rules are all in one book if you still have it or go get the pod, Rules Cyclopedia. It's all you need and is easily made into however you like to play.
great!
My Favorite version is 2nd. My friends and I have been playing 2nd since the 80's, We tried 3rd, 4th and 5th but always came back to 2nd. 2nd to me was just so basic without being conforming and patronizing. I know some people are like "but 2nd was so lacking in rules and details and some of the rules were not accurate or obtrusive." And to that all I have to say is; that is where imagination and personal tweaks step in to play. But to each their own.
And there are some really great retro clones of 2e out there as well!
@@welovettrpgs I do a mix of first ed, second ed, and skills and powers rules for character creation, with a healthy dose of house rules to balance the editions. My current players prefer the more historical/realistic approach to some of the later editions. That's the main reason I didn't make the switch to third ed, as it felt like it was leaning more into creating characters that were more at home in anime and video games than it was into a game inspired by history and myth. I play D&D because of the convergence of history and myth.
I absolutely agree. Like you, my group have played several editions but also go back to 2nd. I guess because it's where we started playing in 89'. 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦
Couldn’t agree with you more. I’ll get some things from the fifth edition just mostly to grab ideas from maybe I’ll converted maybe I won’t.. but second edition is by far the best. Keep the faith.
@@timsoyer3840 Yes, we peeked into 5th edition with plans to just take whatever we wanted and convert it but what we discovered was; anything we found in 4th and 5th we had already created on our own, years earlier. Thats what happens with a group of very imaginative and open minded peoples.
to me, 3rd and 5th edition are the best. 1st edition doesnt make any class really feel enjoyable except for the fighter. Cant live out my sneaky thief dream or swashbuckler dream when actually playing those classes. I can play a fighter themed as a rogue or assassin or swashbuckler tho. Monks also sucked. Wizards were cool at higher levels. But kinda feels like ur doing nothing for a long time.
2nd edition is great. but still lacking. Thieves and monks are better. But still not quite where the should be. fighters and magic users are great tho. Races were implemented well.
3rd edition is where truly each class was useful and hit on a lot of player fantasies. Wanna be that stealthy anime assassin? you can. Wanna be a strong mysterious monk? very possible. Any type of fighter is still possible and magic users are still great and with more diversity.
5th edition makes it even more possible to live out ur dream fantasy character. Buuuut, the mechanics are super simple. Which is kind of a downside to me.
So i gotta say 3rd edition is the best edition
Wotc versions are nothing more than superheroes and super powers aimed at mmo players. BECMI or AD&D 2E are my preferred versions.
I have a lot of complaints about how incredibly "durable" 5E PCs are. My players really have no idea how many times I've performed stress tests on the rules to see what might kill them and they have always survived. When I read on reddit people whining about their character dying all I can think is someone must have really really screwed up.
@@welovettrpgs I've tried running some 5E games and even played in a number of them and I've never seen a pc die. The game master literally has to throw an absurd amount of things their way or just outright cheat to kill a pc and that strips the fun out of the game if the gm is doing that.
Whenever I run BECMI and AD&D 2E I always tell the players especially if they're coming from 5E be prepared to play smart or die that the older versions are not forgiving of stupidity. Also the lack of powers to fall back on makes the games tougher which I like.
5E characters are easy to kill at early levels. Bugbears. 😊
@@Gumby-vx7ki They're even easier to kill when you just say no to 5E and play a real Dungeons and Dragons game lol.
Agree. Totally true
Thank you. I don’t know why people conflate “I don’t like it” with some sort of moral or personal offense.
“Like game. Play game. Have fun. The end.”
My least favorite system to RUN is 5e because I could never figure out how to challenge the party without getting into the mindset of trying to outright kill the party, and that just wasn’t fun for me. Also, combat took way too long.
My favorite system to run at the moment is probably EZd6. Basic Fantasy RPG is second, and Castles & Crusades is third. I REALLY want to run Numenéra soon, and had a blast doing a one shot of Shadowdark. I ran a PC in a one shot of Dungeon World with my one group, and it was fun, but Powered by the Apocalypse isn’t a system I think I’d enjoy running. One day I’ll try Low Fantasy Gaming as well.
The best version of D&D is whatever game you play, even if it’s not.
im totally in love with most everything Monte Cook has ever created. Look for my upcoming sci fi meets fantasy video where I talk about his Arcana of the Ancients for 5 E game materials. I love it. Also yes I absolutely agree that 5e is way too soft on players and wow yet there's still people trying to get away with exploit builds.
@@welovettrpgs I will look forward to it! I just reviewed Cypher System, and am working on my Numenéra review now. Monte Cook’s design language is PHENOMENAL.
If the CR system made any sense, or if short rests weren’t a thing, 5e would be more challenging without being punishing. In the end a challenge is all I want to provide and I could never crack 5e’s code to provide it. I’ve seen it done, but my brain just isn’t wired for its design.
Also, outlaw the tiny hut spell, dang it.
The best edition is the one that made you smile when you think back. Which ever version that was.
yup that too
Love this response. Play it your way. Never let anyone; tell you how to have fun, playing make believe with a rules framework.
Except 4th ;)
@@dt534 even the 4th. It is the one which led Matt Mercer likes.
I started with Mentzer BECMI Red Basic box set with a golden (orange) dragon on the cover in the '80s - before moving to 1e AD&D and a little of 2e AD&D in the 90s then stupidly sold off all of my books in the 90s. Only came back to TTRPGs in 2013. The tale end of the 4th Ed D&D era and was an early member of Roll20. Played mostly 'Basic D&D' - now am focused on Basic Fantasy RPG as the game GM - but play in a range of rulesets. Great coverage on the editions in this video. Love that awesome message at the end. I chose Basic Fantasy RPG because it's not about 'editions' but more an era of playstyle for me. Flexibility and endless adaptability. ;)
Ive lost so many rpg games over the years from moving, had some stolen, loaned some out never saw them again. I'm trying to rebuild my collection now. I really regret selling off all my James Bond RPG and d6 Star Wars books as I had literally every book available from both pof those.
That's what I started on too. Good times!
100% agree.
Play what you want, how you want, with who you want.
The best game (of D&D or other RPG) is the one you play and enjoy.
Edition wars is pointless.
I find it strange that D&D has a tendency to change mechanics with each edition. Many other games just tidy up the rules, pop in some new art, and reformat. Ending up with a new edition. (Call Of Cthulhu 1st edition scenarios can easily be used with 7th edition rules with some minor maths.) I think this may be the way 5E is going.
Agreed. 1st and 2nd edition AD&D were mostly compatible. 3rd and 3.5 were mostly compatible but it's been a mess otherwise.
@@welovettrpgs aye.
I think we're at the point now though of trying to reinvent the wheel.
Also, there are so many other games out there and thanks to the internet they are easy to find/buy/try.
It ain't 1981 again.
TSR fostered the edition wars when 2e came out. I hated it, because it was à la carte, expensive, and so many people wouldn't play anymore unless you used "the real rules." That ticked me off, plus I hated the binder format. So I basically got ostracized by 2e, as mixing and matching rule sets fell out of favor, and showing off your wallet size with the latest and greatest everything became the norm. But that was the '80's. And a lot of my (former) rpg friends called me immature for still playing D&D anyway.
I think the best forms of d&d are actually some of the retroclones from third parties. They are like improved versions of each edition
I purchased a bunch of them (all of the most well known ones and a few obscure titles) but havent had time to try any of them yet. Except Mutant Crawl Classics the Gamma World Retro clone which I really enjoy. Just not a fan of all the dice.
Castles and Crusades is a good one
My favorite edition of D&D was Mutants & Masterminds 2e. It made the d20 system presented in D&D 3e maximally flexible with regards to character customization.
In these modern times, B/X is my favourite because it is the fastest version to play. No slogging combats slowing down the adventure.
Ok...back. loved the video.
I played from 81-88...had all the books including Deities and Demigods..MM2. Had about 30 figurines I hand painted...I enjoyed it very much...but when I moved in 88, half way across the country..the people I found that played were the one that gave the game its bad reputation and name... I do miss it sometimes but I found Skyrim ES5...so I get to do more... again great video...thank you.
Thank you! Yeah the "gives the game a bad name crowd" has always been a problem and still is but without those types it is a fantastic hobby / activity and can help us all in so many positive ways. (video on that in the future) Best wishes!
For me 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition gives context to the game's history and explain how to play the classic computer games like Pools of Radiance, Eye of the Beholder, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.
Running Tomb of Horrors with 1st edition rules is like being in a medieval fair or having a 1920's Cluedo Escape Room challenge. An appreciation of the old and the roots of the hobby.
2nd Edition is essential for the foundation of almost all of the settings. Most of Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Planescape, Ravenloft and Spelljammer were founded in this edition and that is where you find the deepest world info.
2nd Edition also had the greatest monster descriptions up to date.
3rd Edition continues the theme into really deepening the quality of the lore, especially with Forgotten Realms, while also granting us some of the finest color artwork. It also founded the quite distinct Steampunk Noir setting Eberron.
4th Edition is the foundation for the board games starting with Castle Ravenloft Boardgame, starting the "Dungeons & Dragons Adventure System" board game rules that are still in use today.
While 5th Edition is the most accessible to use.
Ever play Temple Elemental Evil from early 2000s? If you can look past the bugs (though paatches are available on line) it is really one of the best computer adaptations of a D&D game.
@@welovettrpgs Yes, I finished it. I actually finished every computer game there was based on the 3rd and 3.5 ruleset and ToEE stood out. Solasta is similar but for 5e SRD.
@ 6:36 you gave me that "WOOHOO!!!" moment... I wasn't sure if you were going to tell me the right answer... my DM recently switch back to Pathfinder from 5e, which is my preference.
Thank you!
There is too much I dislike about 5th edition, ranging from monster HP bloat, the inconsistency of the CR system, how mind-bogglingly high-magic and low risk the game's systems tend to be among many other things, for me to consider it the best.
For me, the sweet spot was 2nd Edition AD&D. Not everyone had access to magic, monsters were scary but didn't feel overly bloated and all the classes felt very different from one another. It'll always be what I prefer to play.
I respect 5th edition. I love that it's brought so many into the hobby, but I don't enjoy the game itself.
Yes, those are all issues I grapple with as well and look to resolve with house rules.
Depends on what you’re looking for. 5e is perfect for introducing dnd to a wider audience whereas other editions emphasize different things
I'd like to say that some of the retextured classes in 5e took notes from classes in Palladium rpg. I'm looking at you Warlock,which "borrowed" ideas from the Witch O.C.C. Not meaning to compare apples and oranges. I've for many years have always tried to mix in a little Palladium stuff/angle within my 5e game. It was great to see my players reactions to encountering a group of Gargoyles and finding out that their much bigger,smarter and some posses good magic skills. My group learned how to parley properly that night!😆 But yeah,the version or combination there of,that you enjoy and importantly your friends enjoy is ultimately "the best one". GM DUG EDDY out.....
I played and DM 2nd, 3rd 3.5 and 5th. And honestly, 5th is my favorite. It has all the good from 3.5, but simplify. Granted sometimes too much. But like you said, I have house rules.
I started with AD&D, have played pretty much everything since at least once.
Not something that some people are likely to agree with, but my favorite is and remains D&D4. As far as I am concerned, any claims that 4 somehow impedes "real" role-play is a monstrous steaming pile of BS. Role-play is about the referee and the players, NOT the system. A major reason I like it is that spell-casting in most, if not all, other D&D versions is more bookkeeping exercise than anything else. In 4, it is basically FUN, imo.
Not liking specific D&D versions or aspects thereof is a personal thing. Putting down other people for THEIR personal choices is a lousy thing to do.
A voice of sanity. You are totally right, my favortite version of D&D is Runequest. [yes i know, but the point is still valid]. Please keep in mind that for many players, other TTrpgs are the best version [for them]. Keep an open mind, because you may be surprised that another edition [of D&D], or another ttrpg, is actually the best game for you.
Couldn't agree more, enjoy what you enjoy!👍
I found the 1st edition AFTER all the other editions (except second which I´m yet to try) And I find it to be the best. I agree everyone can play however they want. But if they´ve never tasted the beauty of advanced/Basic (OSR) taste, I believe they´re missing out.
Gold for XP, and low HD really does make a difference. It´s a completely different game. One that doesn´t require a new player to write a backstory for a character of a race they don´t understand, in a setting they know nothing about. Procedural gaming is the way to go; Before that I didn´t get as much enjoyment out of DMing. Now I love it.
TLDR; OSR is awesome and everyone should at least give it a serious try.
There's some really great retro clones that are actually a better version of 1st and 2nd edition (just making it cleaner and more consistent) and all the old adventure modules are compatible with them.
@@welovettrpgs Yes!! I use OSRIC for general stuff and introducing new players. But still use a modified version of weapon speed factors, and armor class modifiers directly from the Adnd charts. It was a chore to go through the books the first time ngl, but I find myself flipping to the right page almost everytime. (There´s always OSCRIC for when that´s not the case :p)
I'm now at the point where the base of my game is Basic D&D/OSE. And then I grab and/or convert stuff I like from all the other editions and clones because why not?
My favourite is 1981 B/x because that is what I started with. The advantage of seeing so many editions is realising they all have terrible flaws and imbalances. Then sometimes you realise those errors were deliberate. I agree 5e is probably the best written so far, after 50 years of errata to review you would hope so
secoond edition AD&D though a huge mess probably ranks on the top of my list so much so I've considered looking into Advanced Old School Essentials, it's basically 2nd edition AD&D but written so it can be understood.
I am enjoying your videos quite a bit. Can't say I would characterize myself as a noob - I started in 1977 with the Original White Box set of rules. I am not a proponent of 5e , mostly because as I get older , I am less inclined to spend a lot of time reading rules - and I have read a lot of game rules in my time. I simply find reading letigious rules ( and people who like being letigious about rules ) pretty darned boring.
I want my players to be able to roll up a player and start playing in a short period of time. I don't believe that is possible in 5e. I have humoured my nephew and his father by playing in a 5e environment , and I simply find the amount of schlock you need to wade through to get a character up and running unenjoyable. I also dislike the fact that attributes are modified and remodified , and then modified again before you get playing.
Like most other serious TTFRPG players , we always did and still do House Rules for huge parts of our games. We steal liberally from probably a dozen different rule sets to strive for our glowing tower of TTFRPG perfection. Perhaps we'll never get there , but that really doesn't matter. As you emphasize - and I appreciate this - what matters is the enjoyment at your table. What also matters , and is necessary for a successful game , is to establish a trust between players and Referee/DM/GM. Once this is built , the specific mechanics don't mean as much as the trust that the gameworld has (mostly) comprehensive laws that the characters will discover as they play , and that the Ref will make rulings with impartiality.
Just a few thoughts.
great thoughts! And welcome aboard! gtreat to have you here!
The Satanic Panic was the best thing to happen to D&D, it made it popular and got its name into the public!
1E was Gary Gygax, 2E was Loraine Newman, 3E was WotC, 4E was video game, 5E is simplified version of the older editions! I played all but 4E, including BECMI! Back in 83, Palladium Fantasy was better than D&D and AD&D! I played 2e from 1990 to 2010!
For me the best edition of D&D is Pathfinder 1E, but it still comes in 6th in my favorite TTRPG's! All the editions of D&D have their stuff i miss, but i have never found a perfect TTRPG for me!
One of my problems with AD&D is that i have played all the classes and Kits i could have fun playing!
good for the game but bad for us kids. And apparently pretty bad for a number of adults with unresolved mental health issues.
I only have experience with 2nd edition ADnD and 3.5. I wanna try B/X (Basic Fantasy, Labyrinth Lord + AEC). Also Castles & Crusades.
Those are all great choices.
Depends. Are you talking price? Or Design. Or how many books you will need? Rules Cyclopedia is the best way to score early D&D. I'm a fan of 1edition AD&D, the OSRIC manual is likely a better idea than 3.5. but to be honest, Shadowdark leaves everything 2nd edition onwards chocking on dust. I think D&D whored itself out for sales after 1st Edition. Books for the sake of books. 5th is a waste of shelf space. 4th is only good for wargaming. and 3.5 is just a power gamer's wet dream.
All valid points. I wish we could have gotten a 2e with Gygax as he intended. 2E was my favorite but I couldnt allow a lot of added books to prevent it from becoming ridiculous. Next week I'm releasing a video about 5E I hope youll watch.
Even I'll admit that Fake D&D....um...I mean...Fourth Edition...had its interesting tidbits. And nothing's perfect. What I wish that WotC would release is a conversion manual...from any edition, to any edition. Sure, it would be a lot of work, debugging the numbers, but who wouldn't look at the D&D library, and see that there are good parts (...and...admittedly...bad ones...) in every edition...including parts that did *not* make the leap from Edition Whichever to Edition Whichever Else.
lol thats what i call 4th as well.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Which ever one you enjoy is the best.and we found house rules invaluable to our gaming...2nd edition is best by the way 🤣🤣 🤘😁🖖🇨🇦
Thanks!
Wow going the cop out answer to avoid arguments... Nevermind the fact that you're absolutely right and people on the internet just want to argue.
ha ha you had me there for a second!
3:33 the greatest irony of the satanic panic is that Gygax considered himself a Christian
To this day I'll never understand why anyone gave airtime to those satanic panic people. Seems they were the ones losing touch with reality.
BECMI Forever!
Long Live King Elmore!!
Play what you love. Love what you play.
Love Elmore! But I love Erol Otus more!
BX for the simple reason that's what I grew up playing later I got the players handbook and just combined rules
You are all wrong! RuneQuest 2nd edition is and always will be the best RPG ever!
That's right! Kids these days just dont understand!! And add Tunnels & Trolls to that as well!! BTW, I vaugley remember playing in a Runequest TTRPG back in the late 80s. That system assigned HPs to armor didn't it? Or am I confusing it with something else? I've thought about the system over the years and I think it had a lot of great ideas but it seemed to get bogged down in numbers ... or is the wrong game?
There is only one edition, exalted be the AD&D, honored be the name of Gygax.
All Hail Gygax!
Great beard/mustache! My first TTRPG was the Holmes D&D blue book too 👍. For me the best games are those that do not bog one down with a rule for every situation, simpler mechanics that rely on the Gamemaster to adjudicate the situations. When I was younger, I used to pompously argue🎓 🤓 that skills based games were the best, the more complicated the better because: 'realism'. Thanks to the hoary crown of wisdom and Professor DM over on DungeonCraft, I now view optimizing fun as the primary goal for any game. I now prefer 'rules light' d20 games with blended elements from OSR & New Skool. So I agree, the best edition of D&D is the one you enjoy playing most!
@welovettrpgs Remember those terribly cheap plastic dice and crayon that came with the Holmes version of D&D and how the D20 would eventually become a marble as the plastic disintegrated? Ahh fun times.
Oh yes and have you looked at how much are trying to sell those for now on Ebay? Has me wondering how many of those "vintage dice" are authentic and not just 3d printed. BTW I still have "most" of my original dice and the pink & white % dice are nearly just round from being worn down (which as you mentioned happened very easily.) I recently found myself on Ebay looking a "Dice Porn" which is what I call looking at vintage rpg dice.
We play 5e . . .or so I thought. Found out I had so many house rules that we didn't know we're house rules. Basically I messed up my memory of the rules and mixed 5e and 3.5. . . And it was so good for us that we just kept it XD
Totally with you on that. I still DM 5th edition as if I was DMing 1st/2nd AD&D because of how many years I played those systems.
My favorite version of D&D is Fantasy Hero
great!
Over the last 2 years or so I have played B/X (via Old School Essentials), 3.5, 5e and AD&D 1st edition. All have had their good and bad points, as you mentioned.
Initially I started with 3.5 since I am most familiar with that edition, but I grew up with 1st and 2nd. I had to pull myself away from 3.5 though as I started to realize I’m not as big a fan of the whole “character build” concept and this edition is best for munchkin / min-Max style players.
Having a ton of fun with OSE and AD&D (by the book) though, especially the latter. It’s been mind blowing!
Great video! And when you mentioned those 12 hour marathon sessions during the weekends, I had to smile.
Thank you! I sure miss that.
I tend to play all editions similarly, ignoring rules that get in the way of the fun and adding things from other additions that I liked.
That's cool! Even Gygax didn't play 1st edition AD&D by the book. When did you begin playing? I'm guessing you're an old school player?
@@welovettrpgs my first exposure to RPGs was not being able to save Aleena from Bargle. My first exposure to D&D was the commercials in the early 80s and the cartoon. I didn’t start playing consistently until 2nd AD&D tho. After 3rd (which is a big misnomer since it’s not the 3rd edition of Advanced, and it’s definitely not the 3rd edition of D&D in general) I discovered the OSR and fell in love with the old modules that were out of print when I had stated to get serious about the game. The design and utility of modules like Hommlet, KotB and Secret of bone hill, among others, transcended editions and made me realize that the rules were just a means to an end, and not the reason why the game was so good.
I can only answer by saying my favorite edition is 4e but "best" can mean different things to different people.
I see a lot of good in 5e and they achieved the goal they had set for it: to make it more accessible to new players. 4e feels like a different type of game but my main quarrel with it is a lot of the lore revision that happened during its time. and while 3.5 was sometimes overly complicated (especially when compared to 5e) and thus unable to easily attract new people towards a player base that would eventually die out with their exclusivity, I do like the numbers crunching to an extent and the much more gritty realism the game had back then. where 5e was too simplified (e.g. Perception, Dis-/Advantage) 3.5 provided too many tools to perform essentially the same task (e.g. Slight of Hand, Open Lock, Escape Artist, Use Rope) but it also had a progression system that felt more natural than 5e's Proficiency Bonus. After much back and forth with some of my friends and players, I finally decided to create my own version of the game. I made my own character sheet, started rewriting a bunch of the existing rules and called it 3.9 ; we have a blast with it still (:
Sounds familiar. Back in the 80s we were constantly creating our own RPG rules systems. Very enjoyable.
Ad&D 1 st Ed. The Only One
its good! I love 2E myself
My friends and started with the basic set many moons ago..the moved onto advanced. Many weekends were had playing d&d and I had the dubious honor of being our "forver dm". As far as a favorite version, I don't really have one..just great memories of days gone by.
2e
i love 2e!
1st edition AD&D
1E was absolutely wonderful. I played it from 1980 to 89. But it did feel unfinished to me after playing 2E for so long (89 to 2000-ish) but I'd really like to have seen what 2E would have been like if Gary hadn't been ousted. I bet all of D&D would have completely different (for the better) had Gary been in control.
Great video, thanks. I started with Black Box Traveller, then Red Box Basic, which we played for years, then Advanced, onwards. The video makes a great point, it's whatever you have most fun with. As a group, we have never played an edition that we all "like" but if there is a concensus on an edition we all don't get on with, then we don't play it again.
Huh. A rational, reasonable video. We need more of these, so you earn a sub. Technically my favorite edition is the B/X set, but in all fairness, I recently switched the Shadowdark RPG- which feels (to me) like the best combination of B/X vibe with modern 5e d20 rules, simplified. Best of luck with your channel. I hope your rational voice cuts through some of the usual noise.
Thank you so much!
I think you forgot to mention the 2.5 refresh, which is the version I started with. I have since then played 1e, 3.5 and 5e. As you mention house rules become their best versions. We settled on 2e with modern AC instead of thAC0.
Not sure I understand, do you mean 2nd edition with the updated cover art?
@@welovettrpgs Indeed mid 90’s you had a cosmetic refresh of the main books and the bunch of burgundy expansions (complete book of… classes, books, skills, tactic, combat…). Many of those where such a complete departure from 2e that they were considered 2.5. Most salient were the new initiative rules and above all the character creation points.
I started d&d when the psionic book came out and the burgundy book (some where also fake leather blue) avalanche started.
@@rashakor Ok I got you. Yeah I don't really consider those a new edition but I do have many of those books (the "Complete book of for example) Also, my next video includes a brief discussion about psionics. It should be posted in a couple days. It's called "Dragons with laser guns / Sci Fi meets fantasy"
@@welovettrpgs I didn't consider them a new edition either at the time but apparently D&D historians on many fora think that the bevy of options heralded the structure that eventually emerged in 3rd edition (subclasses and options galore, which i found too complicated to DM, hence why i stepped back into a barebones 1 or 2nd edition).
@@rashakor At the time I simply had to put the brakes on which books I would allow at the table. All those extra books made rules lawyers a pain in the arse.