Ignoring the elephant in the room, I can personally assure you that any tank that walks near any botlane duo without being 10/0 will get kited and vaporized in a matter of seconds.
Couple things I disagree with here, but a big one is: "assassins in solo queue are strong because adcs are so weak". The natural rock-paper-scissors of lol is assassins beat adcs, adcs beat tanks, and tanks beat assassins. Assassins are strong when tanks are weak/when adcs are popular -- if anything, I would argue that assassins being strong is evidence of adcs also being too strong, rather than the opposite (regardless, assassins SHOULD be "stronger" than adcs in a head-to-head matchup, that's the nature of the roles). If assassins are too strong, that's a sign tanks need a buff.
Pro players train both by scrimming between pro team and by playing soloq. They can't just play 2 different games. What kind of read of the game can they develop if something works in soloq but is completely irrelevant for pro play. You will cut at least a 3rd of their practice because soloq will be irrelevant. You won;t be even able to learn lane matchups since the tiniest differences matter in pro play. The reverse is also true. People watch pro play and will be enthusiastic to mimic what pros do. But guess what they play on a different patch and whatever cool shit they might pull of you won;t be able to attempt to replicate. Because of this, there can't be separate patches.
we just had a couple of patches where adcs are the strongest picks in both top and mid. If you mean that bot adcs are weak then you can pick mages bot, Dom had a really good video talking about this. And creating different patches to separate pro and casual is nuts.
@@srensen3081 just right click the enemy while dodging every spell they throw at you. Additionally space in a way that nobody can every flash at you, try to get around 8 Cs per minute and you should be pretty good to go.
the issue may lie in how the game handle solo lane experience. Once adc get ahead in item + exp, their dmg outperform the little resistance other classes have. Really need to balance this.
@@srensen3081 i understand the feeling, the meta shifts and mutates into weird stuff all the time. sometimes you gotta ask the question, are you an adc player? or are you a bot player? sometimes playing to win means you have to learn things outside your comfort zone.
@@Biobio6768 yeah adcs getting hella ahead early game sucks, it used to be worse. @squib 's video talks about old cut down and old lord doms passive, doing 40% extra damage to fighters and tanks, they died almost as fast as other classes lol.
First of all, we need to stop promoting soloq as the main ranked mode, and instead make it just as garbage as Flex, then improve Flex Queue. That way, people will have a better grasp of coordinated play and therefore will better comprehend how some things work better when all players work together, as opposed to soloq and its lone wolf mentality.
lack of defense items on A.D.C which stand for attack damage carry not attack defense carry, all that and you still see vayne and varus occasionally with some other adcs building jaksho and frozen heart or even randuins while cutting you down 15% hp with one auto. not to mention the triple adc meta that has been going rampant for a couple of months now, and to dick ride adc's even more riot is adding back lethal tempo. shits simple. get good
Bcs tanks got weaker overall. Resistances got nerfed while health stayed the same. If riot would add tank killing (items), tanks would become unplayable and nobody would pick them anymore. On a sidenote, LDR and Kraken Slayer are both decent options to deal with tanks, but tanks should also get a chance to be a good frontline for the team
ADC was always the weakest role in Solo Q without an Duo Support Player. The role heavily depends on your team playing around you, it is just like the role is intended to.
@@srensen3081 The only way they differ is just due to supports being another variable and making it a 2v2 lane, regardless of exp. If there were two enchanters supports that decide to not do anything and just stand behind their ADCs, then that bot lane is effectively just another solo lane. ADCs, wherever you put them, only have the same job in mid-late game: dish out damage from a distance without getting caught.
Really, it's a really bad take. If you played in low elo, you see quinn or vayne lose lane by 3 mins. Why, is they dont have the mechanics to play adc. If you dont have the mechanics to play Draven or samira on a high level. Then you sucks at adc. Most plat and below adc think the support job to stay with them. The support icon is a ward. Support job is to stay with jg and fight for vision. So you can see the flank coming. Now they saying adc is weak. Adc isnt weak. Adc is a skill and knowledge check. Can you kite and dodge skill shot? Can you read the map, so you wont die going for cs by yourself?
Every single item in the game that has armor pene or hp % dmg is getting heavily nerfed (both for ap and ad), while items for resists are getting buffed. And yes I agree, adc were very powerfull for the last months, but this is not a solution. This is not BALANCING, this is straight up tipping the scale the other way. Yet half of the comments focus on calling the guy 'crying adc main'. If you don't see a problem with what is happening, you are absolutely delulu.
@@lainpilled Adc is still the most common in the top 100, I counted 26 adc players. Which is weird when you consider that adc is generally one of the least popular rolls overall. I counted 17 top laners by comparison, the second least.
@@srensen3081 Top 100 are fluctuating frequently. There could have been a top laner in 11th who won a game against someone in 10th in the 2 hours between your two comments
@@BrontiThor it is not close to least popular this split and the changes that were made last patch are not gonna influence the ladder much as a lot of ppl are gonna sit on decay games in their lp and role with most chall players was mid when i check it this morning but it is such a small difference it doesnt really matter how many players there are it is not the issue i have the problem is big nerfs to bot adc when sololanes adc were the problem
adc on bot in soloq rn are not in a good state even though they were in good state at the start of the split but balancing adc on solo roles has proven to be too difficult for riot so they just gutted all the adc items and runes which has affected not only solo lanes but bot lane adcs even more
tanks make up less than 1% of my total playtime, adc is probably my most played role, maybe 2nd before mid, anyways i don't get it, i feel like tanks are complained about "suddenly being unkillable" every season, like since season 3~4 every season there is a new stigma that tanks are suddenly this unkillable wall and i don't understand why, they are supposed to reach a point where u cant interact with them 1v1 or they make teamfighting unplayable for a carry unless they were shutdown early they are a scaling type champ, statchecking and being a menace in teamfighting is kind of their entire point - and still across all scaling champs they are the category that has the least self-agency outside of like mundo who is an extreme case since he is hypershit early game this is precisely why i do not play tanks, oppressive or not they are very team reliant
Imagine still saying marksmen are weak despite dominating the game for the last 10 patches, with nerf after nerf not helping. Also don't worry about tank killing, Riot is nerfing every tank item that does damage so you'll mostly have to worry about mundo running you down now mr adc
Nerfs will probably make tanks tankier if you actually read what they're doing with the items. This is probably the biggest adc nerf since they basically reverted the durability patch for adcs
@@yungmetr0135 They reverted the durability patch when the very next patch after it they removed all effective hp every adc gained and more. I believe shieldbow's shield got halved and they removed the bt shield, which every adc was building one or both of those.
@@DoggyP00 Yes, items like undying despair remains mostly untouched, but the items that does damage for tanks get almost all of their damaged removed, such as titanic and sunfire. Meaning tanks will feel more oppressive for marksmen, and worse to play for actual tank players and the characters that have a lot of damage in their kit like mundo will probably feel the best about this. And no, it's not an adc nerf, it's an everything nerf
One solution that a majority of players would hate that could potentially solve some of these issues is to make adjustments to lower the skill floor of core mechanics or to introduce new noob-friendly mechanics (with the help of items?) targeted towards low elo and soloq in general. If there was some way to lower the skill floor of core mechanics like auto-attacking, spacing, weaving, etc., you could introduce further nerfs in the future without issue. The opposite could also be done by changing core mechanics to limit damage output through skill expression and positioning alone, and then buffing aspects of ADCs that helps them deal more damage in average scenarios and have impact in messy scenarios like soloq games. Skilled players and pro players would not be happy but fuckem. Riot could again introduce noob-friendly must-use items like RFC with range, shiv, lich-bane/sunderer for AD+crit, etc. that simplify the role for new players without turning them into bruisers. The cost is item diversity and ADCs losing their identity in low elo. New players would naturally gravitate towards easy good items and skilled/team players would know not to get stuck relying on them and instead working towards becoming a "real ADC". Maybe an item that increases range but dramatically lowers attack speed? My examples would probably make some champs brutally OP, I am only speaking conceptually. The essence of the argument is, there should be a way to make ADCs even op in soloQ low elo while it having close to zero impact in pro play aside from a few pics by breaking a few eggs, like sacrificing the core identity of ADCs.
yes because giant slayer was removed from lord doms and kraken slayer is just objectively more effective against non-tanks because it doesn't do %health damage i don't agree with nearly any of what this guy says in the video but also you are wrong too
They aren't really tank killing items. They scale either just as well or downright better versus frail targets. Thing is, I don't think actual devoted tank-killing items are that necessary? I understand the need for a BotRK or a Liandry's in the game to punish pure healthstacking, but even without a giantslayer passive, the most effective way to kill a tank in the late game still is "have an ADC hit them while keeping it safe", and tanks not absolutely melting to them means they can actually kind of maybe fulfill the purpose in their name (god forbid a tank actually be able to tank stuff).
I wonder what role this guy mains..
POV> you're a emerald 4 adc main
Ignoring the elephant in the room, I can personally assure you that any tank that walks near any botlane duo without being 10/0 will get kited and vaporized in a matter of seconds.
number 5 burger king foot lettus type voice
why are tanks allowed to be tanky?
real, i hate when i build full tank and actually get the value out of my gold
Couple things I disagree with here, but a big one is: "assassins in solo queue are strong because adcs are so weak".
The natural rock-paper-scissors of lol is assassins beat adcs, adcs beat tanks, and tanks beat assassins. Assassins are strong when tanks are weak/when adcs are popular -- if anything, I would argue that assassins being strong is evidence of adcs also being too strong, rather than the opposite (regardless, assassins SHOULD be "stronger" than adcs in a head-to-head matchup, that's the nature of the roles). If assassins are too strong, that's a sign tanks need a buff.
My solution would be to add a quest item like supports do where they get rewarded for duo laning, so pros can’t abuse solo laning adcs
Pro players train both by scrimming between pro team and by playing soloq. They can't just play 2 different games.
What kind of read of the game can they develop if something works in soloq but is completely irrelevant for pro play. You will cut at least a 3rd of their practice because soloq will be irrelevant. You won;t be even able to learn lane matchups since the tiniest differences matter in pro play.
The reverse is also true. People watch pro play and will be enthusiastic to mimic what pros do. But guess what they play on a different patch and whatever cool shit they might pull of you won;t be able to attempt to replicate.
Because of this, there can't be separate patches.
we just had a couple of patches where adcs are the strongest picks in both top and mid. If you mean that bot adcs are weak then you can pick mages bot, Dom had a really good video talking about this.
And creating different patches to separate pro and casual is nuts.
i dont wanna play mages bot, i wanna play marksmen, but i dont know how the fuck to play mid or top so how do i play marksmen?
@@srensen3081 just right click the enemy while dodging every spell they throw at you. Additionally space in a way that nobody can every flash at you, try to get around 8 Cs per minute and you should be pretty good to go.
the issue may lie in how the game handle solo lane experience. Once adc get ahead in item + exp, their dmg outperform the little resistance other classes have. Really need to balance this.
@@srensen3081 i understand the feeling, the meta shifts and mutates into weird stuff all the time. sometimes you gotta ask the question, are you an adc player? or are you a bot player? sometimes playing to win means you have to learn things outside your comfort zone.
@@Biobio6768 yeah adcs getting hella ahead early game sucks, it used to be worse. @squib 's video talks about old cut down and old lord doms passive, doing 40% extra damage to fighters and tanks, they died almost as fast as other classes lol.
First of all, we need to stop promoting soloq as the main ranked mode, and instead make it just as garbage as Flex, then improve Flex Queue. That way, people will have a better grasp of coordinated play and therefore will better comprehend how some things work better when all players work together, as opposed to soloq and its lone wolf mentality.
lack of defense items on A.D.C which stand for attack damage carry not attack defense carry, all that and you still see vayne and varus occasionally with some other adcs building jaksho and frozen heart or even randuins while cutting you down 15% hp with one auto. not to mention the triple adc meta that has been going rampant for a couple of months now, and to dick ride adc's even more riot is adding back lethal tempo. shits simple. get good
Bcs tanks got weaker overall. Resistances got nerfed while health stayed the same. If riot would add tank killing (items), tanks would become unplayable and nobody would pick them anymore. On a sidenote, LDR and Kraken Slayer are both decent options to deal with tanks, but tanks should also get a chance to be a good frontline for the team
Because Riot loves tanks and keeps gutting mages and ADC
ADC was always the weakest role in Solo Q without an Duo Support Player. The role heavily depends on your team playing around you, it is just like the role is intended to.
Yes that’s totally why adc’s were playable in both solo lanes this season.
@@Domesticpandah i am speaking of an ADC on Bot.
@@Domesticpandah solo lane adcs function differently to bot adcs because they arent behind in xp
@@srensen3081 some of the highest winrate champions in the league of legends video game are botlaners. insane
@@srensen3081 The only way they differ is just due to supports being another variable and making it a 2v2 lane, regardless of exp. If there were two enchanters supports that decide to not do anything and just stand behind their ADCs, then that bot lane is effectively just another solo lane. ADCs, wherever you put them, only have the same job in mid-late game: dish out damage from a distance without getting caught.
Really, it's a really bad take.
If you played in low elo, you see quinn or vayne lose lane by 3 mins.
Why, is they dont have the mechanics to play adc. If you dont have the mechanics to play Draven or samira on a high level. Then you sucks at adc.
Most plat and below adc think the support job to stay with them. The support icon is a ward. Support job is to stay with jg and fight for vision. So you can see the flank coming.
Now they saying adc is weak. Adc isnt weak. Adc is a skill and knowledge check. Can you kite and dodge skill shot? Can you read the map, so you wont die going for cs by yourself?
another crying ADC main meanwhile adc is the strongest role in the game
Every single item in the game that has armor pene or hp % dmg is getting heavily nerfed (both for ap and ad), while items for resists are getting buffed. And yes I agree, adc were very powerfull for the last months, but this is not a solution. This is not BALANCING, this is straight up tipping the scale the other way. Yet half of the comments focus on calling the guy 'crying adc main'. If you don't see a problem with what is happening, you are absolutely delulu.
in top 10 euw there are 3 adc players compared to 1 toplaner, so the argument that adcs are weak in soloq is a complete lie
and in top 15 there are still 3 adc players you are cherry picking data
theres 2 top laners, why are you lying
@@lainpilled Adc is still the most common in the top 100, I counted 26 adc players. Which is weird when you consider that adc is generally one of the least popular rolls overall. I counted 17 top laners by comparison, the second least.
@@srensen3081 Top 100 are fluctuating frequently. There could have been a top laner in 11th who won a game against someone in 10th in the 2 hours between your two comments
@@BrontiThor it is not close to least popular this split and the changes that were made last patch are not gonna influence the ladder much as a lot of ppl are gonna sit on decay games in their lp and role with most chall players was mid when i check it this morning but it is such a small difference it doesnt really matter how many players there are it is not the issue i have the problem is big nerfs to bot adc when sololanes adc were the problem
adc on bot in soloq rn are not in a good state even though they were in good state at the start of the split but balancing adc on solo roles has proven to be too difficult for riot so they just gutted all the adc items and runes which has affected not only solo lanes but bot lane adcs even more
tanks make up less than 1% of my total playtime, adc is probably my most played role, maybe 2nd before mid, anyways i don't get it, i feel like tanks are complained about "suddenly being unkillable" every season, like since season 3~4 every season there is a new stigma that tanks are suddenly this unkillable wall and i don't understand why, they are supposed to reach a point where u cant interact with them 1v1 or they make teamfighting unplayable for a carry unless they were shutdown early
they are a scaling type champ, statchecking and being a menace in teamfighting is kind of their entire point - and still across all scaling champs they are the category that has the least self-agency outside of like mundo who is an extreme case since he is hypershit early game
this is precisely why i do not play tanks, oppressive or not they are very team reliant
adc in so weak in solo q that its spammed in every role except support even after muiltiple nerfs :=)
Nah, this is the most delusional take I have ever heard
I personally would not say that non tanks being strong is evidence of tanks being OP...
Imagine still saying marksmen are weak despite dominating the game for the last 10 patches, with nerf after nerf not helping. Also don't worry about tank killing, Riot is nerfing every tank item that does damage so you'll mostly have to worry about mundo running you down now mr adc
Nerfs will probably make tanks tankier if you actually read what they're doing with the items. This is probably the biggest adc nerf since they basically reverted the durability patch for adcs
@@DoggyP00 how have they reverted the durability patch when every item in the game does less dmg and barrier has 180s cooldown
@@DoggyP00 good.
@@yungmetr0135 They reverted the durability patch when the very next patch after it they removed all effective hp every adc gained and more. I believe shieldbow's shield got halved and they removed the bt shield, which every adc was building one or both of those.
@@DoggyP00 Yes, items like undying despair remains mostly untouched, but the items that does damage for tanks get almost all of their damaged removed, such as titanic and sunfire. Meaning tanks will feel more oppressive for marksmen, and worse to play for actual tank players and the characters that have a lot of damage in their kit like mundo will probably feel the best about this. And no, it's not an adc nerf, it's an everything nerf
adcs are way too strong riot should realy buff rengar not gona lie
nice bs u spread here
One solution that a majority of players would hate that could potentially solve some of these issues is to make adjustments to lower the skill floor of core mechanics or to introduce new noob-friendly mechanics (with the help of items?) targeted towards low elo and soloq in general.
If there was some way to lower the skill floor of core mechanics like auto-attacking, spacing, weaving, etc., you could introduce further nerfs in the future without issue.
The opposite could also be done by changing core mechanics to limit damage output through skill expression and positioning alone, and then buffing aspects of ADCs that helps them deal more damage in average scenarios and have impact in messy scenarios like soloq games. Skilled players and pro players would not be happy but fuckem.
Riot could again introduce noob-friendly must-use items like RFC with range, shiv, lich-bane/sunderer for AD+crit, etc. that simplify the role for new players without turning them into bruisers. The cost is item diversity and ADCs losing their identity in low elo. New players would naturally gravitate towards easy good items and skilled/team players would know not to get stuck relying on them and instead working towards becoming a "real ADC". Maybe an item that increases range but dramatically lowers attack speed?
My examples would probably make some champs brutally OP, I am only speaking conceptually.
The essence of the argument is, there should be a way to make ADCs even op in soloQ low elo while it having close to zero impact in pro play aside from a few pics by breaking a few eggs, like sacrificing the core identity of ADCs.
"the only thing adc's have is BORK" Kraken Slayer and Lord Doms standing there like am i joke to you
yes because giant slayer was removed from lord doms and kraken slayer is just objectively more effective against non-tanks because it doesn't do %health damage
i don't agree with nearly any of what this guy says in the video but also you are wrong too
KRAKEN SLAYER HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@ambiguousspotlightofinsani6764 Which is a good thing, having anti-tank options being viable as a first item is a dumbfk design.
They aren't really tank killing items. They scale either just as well or downright better versus frail targets. Thing is, I don't think actual devoted tank-killing items are that necessary? I understand the need for a BotRK or a Liandry's in the game to punish pure healthstacking, but even without a giantslayer passive, the most effective way to kill a tank in the late game still is "have an ADC hit them while keeping it safe", and tanks not absolutely melting to them means they can actually kind of maybe fulfill the purpose in their name (god forbid a tank actually be able to tank stuff).
Just play vayne lol
Adcs are broken in soloq
because solo laners cannot stop crying about how the game isn't centered around them enough
Solo lanes are infested with ADC abusers right now, so yes I'd say there're currently a lot of crybabies in top and mid lmfao
@@RiverNunu riot nerfed adc's and now you'll see the same people abusing something else and crying regardless
это ии?