If you don’t want to leave your baby, then YOU change what plans you attend. Aka, you skip the bars, clubs, and vacations. It’s great for your friends to do a mix of things that include you, like a coffee shop, but it doesn’t mean their lives only include child friendly options now.
When the BFF called her friends "skanks," she showed herself. IDK if it's social media (god, I hope so), but some parents seem to think that they're better than other people just because they're parents, and also that the whole world should bend and break for them and their child. It's probably for the best that she's no longer part of the group. She treats them poorly for not wanting to always be with kids, and they can't make plans without the kid being a factor, even though there were other options. I'm not assuming that OP and other friends would want child-free weddings, but if they did, BFF would 100% throw a tantrum a la her text, and she'd likely either challenge or outright ignore that boundary. She couldn't even show proper respect to OP's birthday. There's mom-guilt, and then there's being self-centered.
I don't think it can be blamed on social media, although I wouldn't be surprised if social media is amplifying this kind of thing. As a kid in the 80s long before social media, I remember some of my parents' friends acting like this, and if I noticed it as a dumb kid, you can bet it was pretty extreme.
NTA this “friend” was all “me me me” and it’s hard to be friends with someone that truly doesn’t want to put in the work to make the friendship last. All relationships friendships included take work and effort and this friend wanted to do 0 work and get all the benefits like no it doesn’t work that way.
I completely agree, and to me, while I can understand being the mother of a young child, it sounds like to me she is turning into a bit of a boy mom because, like Dusty said, she's not filling up her own cup and making her son her whole personality. And again, I can understand that to a degree. You (not YOU) are a mother. Your children are your life, but when you decide to have children at such a young age, because when i heard this mother was 22 or 23, I was like, "Omg! She's still a kid herself!" You make the choice of, "Do I balance being a mother and retain some of my old self, or do I throw my old self away and dedicate myself 100% to being a mother?" And she chose 100% to be a mother at the detriment of losing her friends.
She was hurt, so she decided to burn her bridges by being as hurtful as she is feeling. I do not think she will ever really realize how she alienated everyone, and she will just look back feeling like everyone else turned their backs on her.
NTA, I do wonder if the friends husband and her MiL say things to make her feel guilty so she feels like she has to always bring her baby to everything.
I read a bit of the original post, seems like husband and in laws all want her to take some time for herself/them as a couple but Friend refuses~ Friend has some restrictive views on what a mother should be.
Parental guilt is a thing, but you have to accept that it is YOU feeling it, not the other people in your life who want to also enjoy THEIR lives. It's fine to arrange meeting people who don't have kids (or even those who do) at kid-friendly venues once in a while, but if you are actively preventing your friends from enjoying being an adult every time you go out with them by insisting your child needs to participate, you're just being self-serving and not thinking about them at all. The fact that she whined to her sister and got her sister to intervene on her behalf? What a child she is herself.
Night outs and trips should be childfree most of the time given the types of environment and activities by the whole group. Having her kid around should be so seldom that it's not seen as an inconvenience when she suddenly has to bring her child. She will feel empty once that child leaves her. She has to build and maintain healthy friendships to have and hold for longterm.
NTA better off without her until she learns some balance in her life. Also she is denying her child’s father and grandparents the opportunity to bond with the child as well. She will learn esp with a 2nd child that time to yourself and giving others time to bond with your child is important. And also teaching your child it’s ok to be without you is really important esp before they go to school.
Well there is one aspect of this, which is that she is fully CHOOSING to bring the kid everywhere. She just chooses not to have someone else take care of the kid. She clearly has separation anxiety and that’s not going to be good for the kid.
As a mother of a 3 year old, I still have Mom guilt whenever I do anything without my kid. Grocery shopping, a movie every several months, even the rare days off I get from work and my family offers to take my kid for a few hours because they love them and want me to have time to myself (that I normally just use to clean the apartment), I understand how the friend is feeling. HOWEVER, I 100% agree that if you do every single thing with your child, no matter how much you love them or how happy they make you, you will begin to lose sight of who you are and "mom" will become your entire personality, and not in the good way. A single day will not kill you. A few hours away will not do irreparable damage to the bond you and your child have. You cannot pour from an empty cup. You cannot care for your child if you don't also take care of yourself. I'm slowly still learning that the hard way, but it eventually gets easier with time and I'm extremely grateful for the support system that I'm privileged to have.
And honestly this refusal to go anywhere without her kid seems extremely unhealthy. Not just for her, but for the kid. Is she not going to feel the parental guilt when they go to school? What about with friendships and sleepovers? What about when they start driving? Romantic relationships? Or is she going to going to sabotage those things to keep her baby close to her? Sorry if I’m stretching, but my mom was like this and at 27 and no/low contact with her I’m still suffering the consequences. Op is NTA and friend needs to better manage this. For her and her baby’s sake.
Off the title alone, YTA. But I was taught never to judge a book by its cover, so let's hear the story. And I was right to take said advice. *_NTA._* New mom is being quite selfish trying to force everyone else to change their plans just for little old her and her baby. These are the type of things you got to think about whenever you have children.
NTA, OP was so transparent and understanding and her BF could only see, “kid-free night out means you hate me and you hate kids”. Hopefully she finds herself again once her kid gets a little older and she can start hanging out with her friends and be an individual again.
Nothing is wrong with a person's priorities changing due to parenthood, but it becomes a problem when you expect those around you to cater or change their behaviors because you decided to have a kid. Balance is important. OP is NTA and the friend is NTA, if she recognized her problems, but since she doesn't, she's an ASSCON 3.
Single mom here of a 2yr old. I have ZERO issue with friends going out without me. If I can get a sitter great, if I can't, sorry, I can't make it this time, hope you have an amazing time.
When I had my kid at 30, I was the first woman in my friend group to be a mom. We where not party people, but still, it was rather isolating. It's not that easy to meet friends, join birthdays, all that jazz, when you have a young baby. Even though I switched parties and gatherings with my husband, I lost out on quite a bit of fun. But that's just what happens when you become a mother, especially when you are the first of your friends to do so. I would never have dreamed of bringing my baby to girls nights and parties without prior agreement. Even then, it always made me feel awkward. I could not drink, I could not stay too long, I didn't want to be a bother. Now my kid is 10 and 3 more children joined my immediate friend group, a hand-full more in the wider circle. Mine is still the oldest, but it is becoming more common for the parents of the group to do kid friendly activities together, for birthday parties to have toddlers coloring and pre-teens playing switch or mobile games at a side table. This mother, though, yikes. It's good she's so happy with being a mom, not everyone is, but that's quite extreme. Not willing to miss even a few hours with her kid for meeting her friends is a lot. That was never going to work out for them.
NTA! Omg. She is making being a mon all her personality. I know it can be hard with the first one. However, how she treats you is toxic. It is not right. Getting her family involved is even worse. Don't invlove her anymore and tell her that you need to step back from her as a friend.
The fact that the friend is already trying for another baby just shows how immature she is. She’s doubling down and having a “fuck you” baby to stick it to her friends. Obviously this is speculation but I think she feels judged by her friends for her decisions, despite the fact that she’s the judgemental one. She comes off as like one step away from those trad wife girls who judge child-free women.
A part of her definitely feels bitter for having a child so young and missing out on all of the things she sees her friends doing without the responsibility of having a child, which probably contributes more to her mom guilt
Time for this relationship to fall by the wayside. She needs to find friends who are moms. Not saying all moms need to do this…but she’s obviously unable to understand that not everyone wants a kid around all the time.
I became a single mom at 21. Not once did I ever expect anyone in my friends circle to accommodate their single life with my “I have a child” life. This friend has more than tried to accommodate definitely NTA. But her friend with the baby and husband needs help to figure out how to separate herself once in a while from her child. It’s not good for the kid and it’s definitely not good for her.
Expecting your friends to change their lifestyle because of YOUR life choices is self centered and childish. After her comments in the update, I'd never speak to her again.
"Friend" ain't gonna figure Jack Squat out, no matter how long she gets. I dug into OP's posts & comments on reddit. Hoo-boy, that's one crazy mama. She won't let her husband take the baby anywhere without her. She is on that poor kid 24x7, with no end in sight. Hubby has tried. Live-In-Laws have tried to babysit, but she is "attached at the hip" and refuses. She's gonna push more than her friends away. Never had a kid, but 14 months seems excessive to be post-partum issue; and this is an Issue. Hope the dad posts from his perspective.
NTA! She may be a good mother, but she hasn't realized that she now has different priorities from her friends. Nothing wrong with that, but she can't expect everyone else to change everything they are about to accommodate her at all times. The fact that they have as much as they did is astonishing. Parenthood changes people, at least if they are adults that accept responsibility. But not everyone changes because one person in the group does. She needs to accept the relationship between her and the friend group has altered and could alter again as other friends become parents (if they do).
NTA. Not everyone wants babies around all the time. I understand the friend wanting to have her baby, I really do, i'm a mom, but I also know that not everyone wants to always have to change plans to accommodate a baby or kid. It's not only about her, but about OP and the other friends as well. The friend's sister had zero right to chastise OP, but she probably only got one side of the story
Sorry Dusty going to disagree with you on the point that one day the friend will figure it out. She already sounds like a helicopter parent, gotta be attached to the kid 24/7 and will double down on kid two. Heaven help her if she has more. Her marriage is going to suffer from this as well - she'll never have date nights with her husband. She'll never allow Grandma and Grandpa time where they just have them without mom hovering. And when they grow up and move out she'll be an empty shell, unable to relate to her husband who has become a stranger because she poured herself into her kids and her identity as a mom (if the marriage lasts that long).
NTA. Friendships are not a one way street. OP has been more than accomodating to her friend becoming a mother but it seems the courtesy only goes one way.
I don't attend things anymore that I can't take my kids too. I'm not happy when I'm away from them. Took my 3 y/o to my 20 year high school reunion. 🤷♀️ I was also 8½ months pregnant with #2.
NTA. during college i dont drink and my friends do. Isnt it normal to not come if you dont want to or just ask them to arrange a duff meeting with you? Now its been 8yrs my friends also go out without me i dont really like going out so they would visit me after.
This mom has another problem, maybe she does not trust others to "properly" care for her son or there is some sort off other issue. But this seems more then just parental guilt.
OP It's absolutely NTA. She did absolutely nothing wrong. But I do think that you misjudged the friend-mom somewhat. You keep declaring with certainty that "she's going to figure it out someday". But I'm about to be 40 and I have some friends who are just like the friend-mom who have never changed. They grew up and matured quickly, deciding that the party lifestyle was immature. They started families and now, nearly 20 years later, they stand by those decisions and perspectives. Different people want different things out of life. They grow and mature and "evolve", as you said, faster than others. Cutting ties and moving on from that lifestyle is sometimes the best decision, depending on who you are as a person. Often (though not always) the party and club lifestyle ends up just being toxic. She handled it in a fairly rude way by calling them skanks, but that doesn't mean that one day she'll change her mind. EDIT: All that said, it was extremely narcissistic of her to expect her entire group of friends to change what they do and how they hang out to accommodate her new life.
It's possible that her family may not let her go out with her friends unless she takes baby with her? Possibly thinking that will prevent her from "having too much fun" and keeping her on a tether, so she will remember that she's a mother now, not a carefree single girl? She may not want to admit it to her friends? Just a thought.
NTA….She needs to find time for Herself …what’s with no hubby or the other family who ‘won’t’ care for her baby ???? Something seems a bit weird there &, she’s headed for burnout !!!
If you don’t want to leave your baby, then YOU change what plans you attend. Aka, you skip the bars, clubs, and vacations. It’s great for your friends to do a mix of things that include you, like a coffee shop, but it doesn’t mean their lives only include child friendly options now.
When the BFF called her friends "skanks," she showed herself. IDK if it's social media (god, I hope so), but some parents seem to think that they're better than other people just because they're parents, and also that the whole world should bend and break for them and their child. It's probably for the best that she's no longer part of the group. She treats them poorly for not wanting to always be with kids, and they can't make plans without the kid being a factor, even though there were other options. I'm not assuming that OP and other friends would want child-free weddings, but if they did, BFF would 100% throw a tantrum a la her text, and she'd likely either challenge or outright ignore that boundary. She couldn't even show proper respect to OP's birthday. There's mom-guilt, and then there's being self-centered.
I don't think it can be blamed on social media, although I wouldn't be surprised if social media is amplifying this kind of thing. As a kid in the 80s long before social media, I remember some of my parents' friends acting like this, and if I noticed it as a dumb kid, you can bet it was pretty extreme.
NTA this “friend” was all “me me me” and it’s hard to be friends with someone that truly doesn’t want to put in the work to make the friendship last. All relationships friendships included take work and effort and this friend wanted to do 0 work and get all the benefits like no it doesn’t work that way.
I completely agree, and to me, while I can understand being the mother of a young child, it sounds like to me she is turning into a bit of a boy mom because, like Dusty said, she's not filling up her own cup and making her son her whole personality. And again, I can understand that to a degree. You (not YOU) are a mother. Your children are your life, but when you decide to have children at such a young age, because when i heard this mother was 22 or 23, I was like, "Omg! She's still a kid herself!" You make the choice of, "Do I balance being a mother and retain some of my old self, or do I throw my old self away and dedicate myself 100% to being a mother?" And she chose 100% to be a mother at the detriment of losing her friends.
This frequently happens to friend groups when they start families and priorities change. OP is NTA.
I have to disagree about the BF having "mom guilt", this is about her being self-centered. She wants friend gatherings to be about her and the baby.
She was hurt, so she decided to burn her bridges by being as hurtful as she is feeling. I do not think she will ever really realize how she alienated everyone, and she will just look back feeling like everyone else turned their backs on her.
Flight attendants always say 'Put your air mask on BEFORE you help your children/family.' You can't help someone else if you're out of air.
NTA, I do wonder if the friends husband and her MiL say things to make her feel guilty so she feels like she has to always bring her baby to everything.
I read a bit of the original post, seems like husband and in laws all want her to take some time for herself/them as a couple but Friend refuses~ Friend has some restrictive views on what a mother should be.
Parental guilt is a thing, but you have to accept that it is YOU feeling it, not the other people in your life who want to also enjoy THEIR lives. It's fine to arrange meeting people who don't have kids (or even those who do) at kid-friendly venues once in a while, but if you are actively preventing your friends from enjoying being an adult every time you go out with them by insisting your child needs to participate, you're just being self-serving and not thinking about them at all.
The fact that she whined to her sister and got her sister to intervene on her behalf? What a child she is herself.
Night outs and trips should be childfree most of the time given the types of environment and activities by the whole group.
Having her kid around should be so seldom that it's not seen as an inconvenience when she suddenly has to bring her child.
She will feel empty once that child leaves her. She has to build and maintain healthy friendships to have and hold for longterm.
NTA OP. BF will never figure it out. She will go from mom to granny to great-granny. She'll look back at 70 yrs old and only see raising her kiddos.
NTA better off without her until she learns some balance in her life. Also she is denying her child’s father and grandparents the opportunity to bond with the child as well. She will learn esp with a 2nd child that time to yourself and giving others time to bond with your child is important. And also teaching your child it’s ok to be without you is really important esp before they go to school.
Well there is one aspect of this, which is that she is fully CHOOSING to bring the kid everywhere. She just chooses not to have someone else take care of the kid. She clearly has separation anxiety and that’s not going to be good for the kid.
As a mother of a 3 year old, I still have Mom guilt whenever I do anything without my kid. Grocery shopping, a movie every several months, even the rare days off I get from work and my family offers to take my kid for a few hours because they love them and want me to have time to myself (that I normally just use to clean the apartment), I understand how the friend is feeling. HOWEVER, I 100% agree that if you do every single thing with your child, no matter how much you love them or how happy they make you, you will begin to lose sight of who you are and "mom" will become your entire personality, and not in the good way. A single day will not kill you. A few hours away will not do irreparable damage to the bond you and your child have. You cannot pour from an empty cup. You cannot care for your child if you don't also take care of yourself. I'm slowly still learning that the hard way, but it eventually gets easier with time and I'm extremely grateful for the support system that I'm privileged to have.
And honestly this refusal to go anywhere without her kid seems extremely unhealthy. Not just for her, but for the kid. Is she not going to feel the parental guilt when they go to school? What about with friendships and sleepovers? What about when they start driving? Romantic relationships? Or is she going to going to sabotage those things to keep her baby close to her? Sorry if I’m stretching, but my mom was like this and at 27 and no/low contact with her I’m still suffering the consequences.
Op is NTA and friend needs to better manage this. For her and her baby’s sake.
Off the title alone, YTA. But I was taught never to judge a book by its cover, so let's hear the story.
And I was right to take said advice.
*_NTA._*
New mom is being quite selfish trying to force everyone else to change their plans just for little old her and her baby. These are the type of things you got to think about whenever you have children.
NTA, OP was so transparent and understanding and her BF could only see, “kid-free night out means you hate me and you hate kids”. Hopefully she finds herself again once her kid gets a little older and she can start hanging out with her friends and be an individual again.
Nothing is wrong with a person's priorities changing due to parenthood, but it becomes a problem when you expect those around you to cater or change their behaviors because you decided to have a kid. Balance is important. OP is NTA and the friend is NTA, if she recognized her problems, but since she doesn't, she's an ASSCON 3.
Single mom here of a 2yr old. I have ZERO issue with friends going out without me. If I can get a sitter great, if I can't, sorry, I can't make it this time, hope you have an amazing time.
When I had my kid at 30, I was the first woman in my friend group to be a mom. We where not party people, but still, it was rather isolating. It's not that easy to meet friends, join birthdays, all that jazz, when you have a young baby. Even though I switched parties and gatherings with my husband, I lost out on quite a bit of fun. But that's just what happens when you become a mother, especially when you are the first of your friends to do so. I would never have dreamed of bringing my baby to girls nights and parties without prior agreement. Even then, it always made me feel awkward. I could not drink, I could not stay too long, I didn't want to be a bother.
Now my kid is 10 and 3 more children joined my immediate friend group, a hand-full more in the wider circle. Mine is still the oldest, but it is becoming more common for the parents of the group to do kid friendly activities together, for birthday parties to have toddlers coloring and pre-teens playing switch or mobile games at a side table.
This mother, though, yikes. It's good she's so happy with being a mom, not everyone is, but that's quite extreme. Not willing to miss even a few hours with her kid for meeting her friends is a lot. That was never going to work out for them.
NTA! Omg. She is making being a mon all her personality. I know it can be hard with the first one. However, how she treats you is toxic. It is not right. Getting her family involved is even worse. Don't invlove her anymore and tell her that you need to step back from her as a friend.
The fact that the friend is already trying for another baby just shows how immature she is. She’s doubling down and having a “fuck you” baby to stick it to her friends. Obviously this is speculation but I think she feels judged by her friends for her decisions, despite the fact that she’s the judgemental one. She comes off as like one step away from those trad wife girls who judge child-free women.
I'm so glad my parent friends arent this bonkers
A part of her definitely feels bitter for having a child so young and missing out on all of the things she sees her friends doing without the responsibility of having a child, which probably contributes more to her mom guilt
Time for this relationship to fall by the wayside. She needs to find friends who are moms. Not saying all moms need to do this…but she’s obviously unable to understand that not everyone wants a kid around all the time.
I became a single mom at 21. Not once did I ever expect anyone in my friends circle to accommodate their single life with my “I have a child” life. This friend has more than tried to accommodate definitely NTA. But her friend with the baby and husband needs help to figure out how to separate herself once in a while from her child. It’s not good for the kid and it’s definitely not good for her.
Op's friend sounds like my sister except my sister has no friends lol
The friend is honestly giving future "boy mom" energy. I feel bad for the kid if that happens.
Friend should probably find a mommy group to socialize with. There's plenty of those around.
The "Kobayashi Maru" reference is SPOT ON 😆
I have a baby too, and I'd love to go clubbing. He's not attached to me.
Expecting your friends to change their lifestyle because of YOUR life choices is self centered and childish. After her comments in the update, I'd never speak to her again.
"Friend" ain't gonna figure Jack Squat out, no matter how long she gets. I dug into OP's posts & comments on reddit. Hoo-boy, that's one crazy mama. She won't let her husband take the baby anywhere without her. She is on that poor kid 24x7, with no end in sight. Hubby has tried. Live-In-Laws have tried to babysit, but she is "attached at the hip" and refuses. She's gonna push more than her friends away.
Never had a kid, but 14 months seems excessive to be post-partum issue; and this is an Issue.
Hope the dad posts from his perspective.
That is some over the top attachment! Evil boy momma in the making. Watch out if this becomes your mother in law.😮
NTA. Kids are great but it’s unreasonable to expect that they come on every outing.
Nta... definitely a her problem and she doesn't wanna see that
NTA! She may be a good mother, but she hasn't realized that she now has different priorities from her friends. Nothing wrong with that, but she can't expect everyone else to change everything they are about to accommodate her at all times. The fact that they have as much as they did is astonishing. Parenthood changes people, at least if they are adults that accept responsibility. But not everyone changes because one person in the group does. She needs to accept the relationship between her and the friend group has altered and could alter again as other friends become parents (if they do).
NTA. Not everyone wants babies around all the time. I understand the friend wanting to have her baby, I really do, i'm a mom, but I also know that not everyone wants to always have to change plans to accommodate a baby or kid. It's not only about her, but about OP and the other friends as well. The friend's sister had zero right to chastise OP, but she probably only got one side of the story
Me and my mom went on a trip without my little brother one year and my mom cries for most of the ride to the destination.
Sorry Dusty going to disagree with you on the point that one day the friend will figure it out. She already sounds like a helicopter parent, gotta be attached to the kid 24/7 and will double down on kid two. Heaven help her if she has more. Her marriage is going to suffer from this as well - she'll never have date nights with her husband. She'll never allow Grandma and Grandpa time where they just have them without mom hovering. And when they grow up and move out she'll be an empty shell, unable to relate to her husband who has become a stranger because she poured herself into her kids and her identity as a mom (if the marriage lasts that long).
NTA. Friendships are not a one way street. OP has been more than accomodating to her friend becoming a mother but it seems the courtesy only goes one way.
I think it's more like "Look at me, I'm a mom."
BFF sounds like a narcissist to me.
Needed to hear some of the things you had to say about parent guilt
I don't attend things anymore that I can't take my kids too. I'm not happy when I'm away from them. Took my 3 y/o to my 20 year high school reunion. 🤷♀️ I was also 8½ months pregnant with #2.
I think it's more like "look at me, I have a baby. My baby is everything. Etc etc."
NTA. during college i dont drink and my friends do. Isnt it normal to not come if you dont want to or just ask them to arrange a duff meeting with you? Now its been 8yrs my friends also go out without me i dont really like going out so they would visit me after.
NTA!
This mom has another problem, maybe she does not trust others to "properly" care for her son or there is some sort off other issue. But this seems more then just parental guilt.
She needs to spend some time for herself. Manhood can be overwhelming. She needs a girls night out
OP It's absolutely NTA. She did absolutely nothing wrong. But I do think that you misjudged the friend-mom somewhat.
You keep declaring with certainty that "she's going to figure it out someday". But I'm about to be 40 and I have some friends who are just like the friend-mom who have never changed. They grew up and matured quickly, deciding that the party lifestyle was immature. They started families and now, nearly 20 years later, they stand by those decisions and perspectives.
Different people want different things out of life. They grow and mature and "evolve", as you said, faster than others.
Cutting ties and moving on from that lifestyle is sometimes the best decision, depending on who you are as a person. Often (though not always) the party and club lifestyle ends up just being toxic. She handled it in a fairly rude way by calling them skanks, but that doesn't mean that one day she'll change her mind.
EDIT: All that said, it was extremely narcissistic of her to expect her entire group of friends to change what they do and how they hang out to accommodate her new life.
Mother guilt is real and this mom has or will lose her identity and sense of self
💜
It's possible that her family may not let her go out with her friends unless she takes baby with her? Possibly thinking that will prevent her from "having too much fun" and keeping her on a tether, so she will remember that she's a mother now, not a carefree single girl? She may not want to admit it to her friends? Just a thought.
Maybe??? But it still isn't reasonable to expect her friends to always do child friendly stuff. If she needs help tho she needs to ask.
Maybe the sister should watch the baby😊
NTA. Friend is selfish. That’s it.
Not the A
NTA….She needs to find time for Herself …what’s with no hubby or the other family who ‘won’t’ care for her baby ???? Something seems a bit weird there &, she’s headed for burnout !!!
NTA
NTA! Bf is.