I too have a Valk Jagen and a Swordmaster sorta Jagen. In Ch1, boss drops a Physic. Guess who only can use it? In addition, my main Lord can learn Dance at 12, my Troubadour can pick between an anima or light prf(still not in game tho, just plans), and one of my characters have a unique class that blends Sniper and Laguz(she turns into a white lion).
I always enjoy, as an ed major, how much these videos seem actually outlined like a lesson plan. Don't know if that's intentional but it amuses me greatly. Great stuff as always!
I've been using some of these videos to help out with an SRPG Studio game I decided to start working on yesterday, and I figured I'd use the comments of these videos to basically show my approach to the subjects covered. So my game's crutch character uses lances and staves, making for a unit that can stick around due to sheer versatility. They also have the distinction of being one of the few units that can double early on in a game where doubling is the exception, not the rule. They also have a personal weapon meant specifically for chipping. However, they gain even less experience than your average Jagen, with most enemies giving them only 1-2 EXP on kill. In addition, they have a crippling weakness to magic which only becomes worse as more mages start showing up in maps. Their Con is also kinda shaky and they get weighed down by some things that other promoted lance users won't have a problem with. They could still be deployed for staff utility due to staff users being relatively scarce.
Suprisingly Cecille usually makes better use of the silver lance. Just goes to show how great of a Jagen Aran is, getting surpassed in the first chapter.
@@nadnap Jeralt is my favourite Jagen, he falls off before you even get to recruit him. He's a true revolutionary in the "Jagen that falls of early" archetipe. I wonder how IS is gonna top itself after Jeralt, maybe the next Jagen is gonna die at the title screen.
Okey so hear me out, what about a bishop jaegen with an early mend staff in a monster focused early game enviroment? (Fe8 Hack). He can big chip the monsters with his slayer skill and get you out of trouble mending someone in need, but falls off as soon as monsters become less relevant while maintaining the high staff rank utility.
I've always thought bishop would be a great class for a jagan. If I ever make a completely original hack I think thats the class I would actually go with for my Jagan. I want to make a Jagan that doesn't annihilate the difficulty but also doesn't "fall off" late game. Staff utility is a great way to keep a Jagan relevant throughout the entire game.
Damn, someone else beat me to it… However! I plan to give my Bishop Jagen a Physic staff (and-crucially-nothing else) for the prologue, gaining an Aura tome only after completing the prologue.
Sniper can clearlly work I fell tho they need to be Mini-Jagen or Oiffey or what ever it call (AKA A combat unit that will grow whit your team since they are a combat unit only) (Well it also depend alot on your deffinition of jagen and how your bow work.) I guess Shamir is kinda of a Jagen right (tho she still growth so that also why I think she semi count since her growth are really good.)
Snipers need to have close counter though as being locked to two range is bad especially if you're supposed to be a Jagen who usually gives you an impresson of how powerful your characters can become
I think having no Jeigan works best when you design your game around the hardest difficulty. A challenge I've run into in Vision Quest, is that because Esfir is strong, but not a true 'Jeigan', is that HM becomes less reliable because she needs to dodge versus being able to take hits as say, FE6 Marcus does in early-game. In my next project, if there ever is one, I would design more heavily around a Jeigan. I'd say that no Jeigan means that most, if not all of your units need to be self-sufficient from the get-go. If you don't have a unit who can reliably set up kills for weak ones to train them, they all need to pull their weight more or less equally from the start. Temporary units I like narratively, but in the context of FE, I find that it is punishing to blind players because they may invest key resources into them and be punished by the game for it. I'd argue Orson is the best villain in FE because the player gets to actually use him, but if you don't recognize that he's a traitor upfront, you may lose out on some of the resources you get in that chapter, which can hurt when Ephraim and co. rejoin. Eyvel, you at least can get back, albeit very late, and you also have Dagdar. I think Eyvel works much better because of how FE5 is set up, where many of your units temporarily 'leave' the army when you go to Manster. It's less jarring than Orson.
I designed my Jagen as a support unit. He has low growths, but you are still given a reason to use him. He supports the most characters out of any other unit, has a skill that grants Atk+3 to all allies within two spaces, which helps in Hard Mode especially and all but one of the units he supports join in Chapter 1.
Nolan is just a solid unit, but on hard mode I don't think he is as reliable or dominant as say, Sothe is in FE10, or as Oswin is in his own game. RD's structure is kind of weird, so archetypes fall by the wayside a bit.
@@nadnap Ok than just a solid unit: Nolan got 10 more HP than Edward, 5 More STR, 2 less SPD, 1 less Luck, 4 More DEF, 3 more RES and 6 more Con... That just why I was asking it not like I was makeing a hack or anything just wanted to know your opinion... Since you said look at your other unit and I think Nolan is kinda like a Mini-Jagen since he is a cluch unit compare to your other 3 really bad unite... tho to be fair I agreed it really hard to say if yes or no he is since the game is just so weird (you get those 3 bad unit than you get alot of pretty good unit so it kinda like is it Jagen or is it just a good unit whit 3 extremly badly balence bad unit... :D since Volug, Zihark and Jill are just good unit that can do work (tho Jill is more of a growth unit since that STR can hurt her alot 11 but still she got some SPD sadly her con is bad so she strugle whit her AXEs... but any way she a flyers so ther that)
here's my idea for a wyvern lord jeigan: bases: Hp: 30 Atk: 13 Skl: 14 Lck 11 Spd 12 Def 11 Res 9 Con 12 growths: 50% Hp 30% Atk 40% Skl 25% Lck 25% Spd 30% Def 25% Res Starting Inventory: Iron Lance 45/45 Silver Axe 20/20 Weapon Levels: D Lance A Axe
I came up with an idea for a Jagen type unit where instead of Paladin or gret Knight theyre a General so that they have enough defense and HP and Def to take hits in the early game but slow enough to get doubled at base which becomes much more impactful in late game and such low res that they easily get one shot by sages and warlocks which most of the late game are
i personally hate that armors don't have Res in FE. in my project, armors have the highest Def AND Res base, but wearing all that metal gives them a weakness to thunder, which they fare about as well to as vanilla armors
I did an fe 6 randomized run and my Marcus randomized into Yodel. Who was a manakete. In my case he was practically untouchable and had a flamestone, something you would not get in vanilla without glitches or hacking. I think you'd have to really fine tune the stone they use along with their bases. What would be nice is you could give them a personal stone. If you wanted them to stay relevant the whole game you could give them a second stone with better stats when they fall off.
I love how Souls of the Forest used a valkyrie jeigan to force you to consider healing vs deleting a dangerous enemy.
I too have a Valk Jagen and a Swordmaster sorta Jagen. In Ch1, boss drops a Physic. Guess who only can use it?
In addition, my main Lord can learn Dance at 12, my Troubadour can pick between an anima or light prf(still not in game tho, just plans), and one of my characters have a unique class that blends Sniper and Laguz(she turns into a white lion).
I always enjoy, as an ed major, how much these videos seem actually outlined like a lesson plan. Don't know if that's intentional but it amuses me greatly. Great stuff as always!
It's totally intentional. I've built a lot of training videos in my day haha. Thanks man.
I've been using some of these videos to help out with an SRPG Studio game I decided to start working on yesterday, and I figured I'd use the comments of these videos to basically show my approach to the subjects covered.
So my game's crutch character uses lances and staves, making for a unit that can stick around due to sheer versatility. They also have the distinction of being one of the few units that can double early on in a game where doubling is the exception, not the rule. They also have a personal weapon meant specifically for chipping. However, they gain even less experience than your average Jagen, with most enemies giving them only 1-2 EXP on kill. In addition, they have a crippling weakness to magic which only becomes worse as more mages start showing up in maps. Their Con is also kinda shaky and they get weighed down by some things that other promoted lance users won't have a problem with. They could still be deployed for staff utility due to staff users being relatively scarce.
40:57 Lies, Cecille can use it
Good call, thanks for correcting - been a while since I played FE3.
Suprisingly Cecille usually makes better use of the silver lance. Just goes to show how great of a Jagen Aran is, getting surpassed in the first chapter.
@@vanjagalovic3621gotta love jeigans that fall off quickly!
@@nadnap Jeralt is my favourite Jagen, he falls off before you even get to recruit him. He's a true revolutionary in the "Jagen that falls of early" archetipe. I wonder how IS is gonna top itself after Jeralt, maybe the next Jagen is gonna die at the title screen.
Okey so hear me out, what about a bishop jaegen with an early mend staff in a monster focused early game enviroment? (Fe8 Hack). He can big chip the monsters with his slayer skill and get you out of trouble mending someone in need, but falls off as soon as monsters become less relevant while maintaining the high staff rank utility.
I've always thought bishop would be a great class for a jagan. If I ever make a completely original hack I think thats the class I would actually go with for my Jagan. I want to make a Jagan that doesn't annihilate the difficulty but also doesn't "fall off" late game. Staff utility is a great way to keep a Jagan relevant throughout the entire game.
Damn, someone else beat me to it… However! I plan to give my Bishop Jagen a Physic staff (and-crucially-nothing else) for the prologue, gaining an Aura tome only after completing the prologue.
Pandan I love you
Sniper can clearlly work I fell tho they need to be Mini-Jagen or Oiffey or what ever it call (AKA A combat unit that will grow whit your team since they are a combat unit only) (Well it also depend alot on your deffinition of jagen and how your bow work.)
I guess Shamir is kinda of a Jagen right (tho she still growth so that also why I think she semi count since her growth are really good.)
Snipers need to have close counter though as being locked to two range is bad especially if you're supposed to be a Jagen who usually gives you an impresson of how powerful your characters can become
@@vanjagalovic3621 Well mostly yah I gave the Shamir exemple.
My Jaegen in my Hack is a Ranger. It gives you the niche of an archer but gives you everything else you really want from a Paladin.
Great video! As fun extension, what are your thoughts on no Jagen? Or temporaries units that fit the bill, like Eyvel or Orson?
I think having no Jeigan works best when you design your game around the hardest difficulty. A challenge I've run into in Vision Quest, is that because Esfir is strong, but not a true 'Jeigan', is that HM becomes less reliable because she needs to dodge versus being able to take hits as say, FE6 Marcus does in early-game. In my next project, if there ever is one, I would design more heavily around a Jeigan.
I'd say that no Jeigan means that most, if not all of your units need to be self-sufficient from the get-go. If you don't have a unit who can reliably set up kills for weak ones to train them, they all need to pull their weight more or less equally from the start.
Temporary units I like narratively, but in the context of FE, I find that it is punishing to blind players because they may invest key resources into them and be punished by the game for it. I'd argue Orson is the best villain in FE because the player gets to actually use him, but if you don't recognize that he's a traitor upfront, you may lose out on some of the resources you get in that chapter, which can hurt when Ephraim and co. rejoin. Eyvel, you at least can get back, albeit very late, and you also have Dagdar. I think Eyvel works much better because of how FE5 is set up, where many of your units temporarily 'leave' the army when you go to Manster. It's less jarring than Orson.
I designed my Jagen as a support unit. He has low growths, but you are still given a reason to use him. He supports the most characters out of any other unit, has a skill that grants Atk+3 to all allies within two spaces, which helps in Hard Mode especially and all but one of the units he supports join in Chapter 1.
Is Nolan a Mini-Jeigan than? (or just a unit that doesn't suck?)
Nolan is just a solid unit, but on hard mode I don't think he is as reliable or dominant as say, Sothe is in FE10, or as Oswin is in his own game. RD's structure is kind of weird, so archetypes fall by the wayside a bit.
@@nadnap Ok than just a solid unit:
Nolan got 10 more HP than Edward, 5 More STR, 2 less SPD, 1 less Luck, 4 More DEF, 3 more RES and 6 more Con...
That just why I was asking it not like I was makeing a hack or anything just wanted to know your opinion...
Since you said look at your other unit and I think Nolan is kinda like a Mini-Jagen since he is a cluch unit compare to your other 3 really bad unite... tho to be fair I agreed it really hard to say if yes or no he is since the game is just so weird (you get those 3 bad unit than you get alot of pretty good unit so it kinda like is it Jagen or is it just a good unit whit 3 extremly badly balence bad unit... :D since Volug, Zihark and Jill are just good unit that can do work (tho Jill is more of a growth unit since that STR can hurt her alot 11 but still she got some SPD sadly her con is bad so she strugle whit her AXEs... but any way she a flyers so ther that)
here's my idea for a wyvern lord jeigan:
bases:
Hp: 30
Atk: 13
Skl: 14
Lck 11
Spd 12
Def 11
Res 9
Con 12
growths:
50% Hp
30% Atk
40% Skl
25% Lck
25% Spd
30% Def
25% Res
Starting Inventory:
Iron Lance 45/45
Silver Axe 20/20
Weapon Levels: D Lance A Axe
I came up with an idea for a Jagen type unit where instead of Paladin or gret Knight theyre a General so that they have enough defense and HP and Def to take hits in the early game but slow enough to get doubled at base which becomes much more impactful in late game and such low res that they easily get one shot by sages and warlocks which most of the late game are
i personally hate that armors don't have Res in FE. in my project, armors have the highest Def AND Res base, but wearing all that metal gives them a weakness to thunder, which they fare about as well to as vanilla armors
Aww, dang it, people beat me to warrior. I thought I was being so clever, too.
What abt a summoner jeigan?
Manakete jaegan?
I did an fe 6 randomized run and my Marcus randomized into Yodel. Who was a manakete. In my case he was practically untouchable and had a flamestone, something you would not get in vanilla without glitches or hacking.
I think you'd have to really fine tune the stone they use along with their bases. What would be nice is you could give them a personal stone. If you wanted them to stay relevant the whole game you could give them a second stone with better stats when they fall off.