Understanding the physics behind it is fundamental for really understanding the high elbow catch and why it is any better than just submerging your whole arm all the way down and pull with all your power. This video basically stands out from the rest of the high elbow videos because it answers the question of WHY it is better to pull that way as opposed to the rest of the RUclips videos that answer the HOW it should be done. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. That video definitely convinced me that it worth it to try and incorporate the high elbow technique into my swimming.
I love your videos. You explain the science behind everything and it just makes so much more sense. Wish my swim team coach back in the day would have been able to explain it easily as you do!
I love how technical and scientific you get with these videos. It gives me a real reason to believe you rather than my coach just saying that's the way it is.
This is definitely one of the best videos about the freestyle stroke. Now all I think I still need is advice for beginners about how the movement of the arms can feel as my technique evolves. I have a slight hunchback and keeping my body streamlined in the water is challenging in itself. To know if I'm pulling with high power/drag, or low power/drag, is not straight-forward - and becomes impossible to tell as my muscles fatigue. One day I'll get the hang of it.
ive recently begun triathlons, i was a runner turned cyclist now trying to swim. im having tremenodus problems and wasting way too much energy in the water. this video made a lot of sense to me and im heading down to the pool now to try it out. thanks coach!
Since the body should be rotating during the underwater pull, the shoulder goes from a negative position (with a high elbow) at the beginning of the underwater pull to a neutral, then positive angle as the hand moves backward. The mechanical power increases to a maximum somewhere around the shoulder, then diminishes thereafter until the end of the pull. With a deep pull the negative angle is less or not at all...but the frontal drag forces are greater.
to stop the 'diminishing" effect, bend your arm to 90 deg (releasing the water at or about your ulna and push straight(purchasing new water) back past your tibia socket, this utilises the tricepts and interior delts (more muscles used - longer stroke, power surge at the end. Your other arm enters the water, you get a fraction more time to breath in but mostly this stops 'freewheeling' - if you don't think this is powerful, swim under water and keep your arms by tour side. bend your arms up to90 deg. and push (like an otter), you might just beat your underwater record.
We are only measuring and considering the speeds while in the water. When you average in the forward velocity of the hand on the recovery phase through the air, you are right, it is the same as the body, 2 m per second.
You cannot avoid a negative angle of the shoulder when you initiate the underwater pull if you are recovering with good body rotation. As the body counter rotates, the negative angle goes away in time for the propulsive phase of the pull.
We will release soon a new DVD called Life is Worth Swimming. You will get it on line and see how two fast freestylers pull a bit differently. Neither pull with the old S-shape pull that some coaches still advocate. The side to side motion of the hand during the pull back should be no more than about 6 to 8 inches. The hand should initiate the pull at the shoulder and drop directly down below the elbow.
The big difference between hip driven and shoulder driven freestyle is the time the hand remains out front (hip driven much longer). Once the propulsive phase begins, one should pull the hand through as fast as possible (about .35 to .4 seconds) to get the most power.
3. Upper-arm has maxim force at + 30 / + 45 degrees at anterior-adduction ( high elbow but not very "high') than 90 degrees (when engage only rotator- terres & subspinous muscles) and than 0 degrees (very high elbow/ dorsal hyperextended when pectoral is disengaged) 4. Dynamic equilibrium on sagital direction around the thorax-lungs support/ sustention point (Archimedes law) which dynamic elevate the back and legs when the arm is plunged in a slight angle in recovery phase (more than Bernoulli)
before that point, it increases the propulsive force gradually and after that it decreases gradually, meaning that the area surface presented by the whole arm to displace a body has only one angle of maximum efficiency (90º or perpendicular to the body) out of a range of semi-circle angles (since the arm enters the water on the catch fase until exits for the recover fase).
Well, I am still pondering this. I found a video of Sun Yang, the young man from China who smashed the distance record in the last Olympics, and he uses the 90 degree or so pull with his arm more out to the side. Then there is a nice clip of Katie in slow motion, where she uses about a 90 degree elbow bend (actually it seems she uses about 90 on the left arm and about 100+ on the left, which is her breathing side), as she sprints. Her pull is more down than to the side. So, the curiosity side of me wants to get your gadget with the dacron string, hook it up to some swimmers and see if you can get actual measurements for different arm bend angles, out to the sides, etc.... like you did to compare the butterfly kicks.
You are reading our minds! We will have a webisode on four different pulling motions in freestyle and how those affect acceleration, deceleration and velocity. Planned to release in the fall on Lanes 2, 3 and 4. It will be a good one.
If we define x as the horizontal axis, or the axis in which the swimmer is traveling, then the hand leaving the water the same place it entered implies that the *average* velocity along the x direction is 0. The hand undergoes (approximately) circular motion. Thus, the hand's velocity in the x-direction is slowest when the hand is going down or up, but fastest when it is moving parallel to the floor/surface. The hand will be spend the same amount of time moving forward with respect to the water as it spends moving backwards, in order to have an average of 0. The hand will generate the most power when it is in the downwards duration of its swing, since that is when its velocity in the -x direction is the fastest. The hand must generate propulsion, otherwise the swimmer is essentially propelling with just legs (which we know is not true); thus the hand's velocity must be negative during some duration of the pull. The upper portion of the arms move no faster than the hand due to having a shorter distance from the pivot point. They can move as fast as the hand if the high elbow technique is used, so that the forearm's x position is the same as that of the hands during most of the pull. From a temporal analysis, the pull is most efficient when the arm presents the greatest cross sectional area along the plane perpendicular to the x-axis during which the arm is moving backwards with respect to the water and catching that "forward directing drag", and when it presents the least cross sectional area when the arm is moving forwards with respect to the water. So ideally (though perhaps not realistically), you should feel a drag pushing your arms *back* as, after just entering the water, they move from the straight (parallel to x) position to a bent (perpendicular to x) position, and when you move from the bent position back to the straight position and exit the water. While your arm is in the bent (perpendicular to x) position, that is when you should feel a drag pushing your arms *forward* as you pull through the water.
+cryora You have put a lot of thought into this. Just a couple of corrections. First, the hand does not move in a perfect circle (of about 2 feet in diameter) with shoulder driven freestyle. The hand cuts the corner of the clock from 6 to 9 o'clock (hand enters the water at 12 o'clock) in order to keep the hand pushing backward (negative velocity). The hand is what creates 95% or more of the force resulting in propulsion while moving backward (not the forearm). The only part of the arm that pertains to frontal drag is the part moving forward. The upper arm moves forward for much of the duration of the underwater pull. Therefore the position of the upper arm is critical to minimizing frontal drag. You are right in that the swimmer will feel the propulsive drag force against the hand (moving backward or downward, creating lift) but not the frontal drag forces caused by the upper arm. Hope this helps.
Question: Is perfecting technique #1 priority for our little swimmers rather than trying to improve their endurance and strength in their first year of training? It was amazing how many 2012 Olympic swimmers powered their way over some fundamental problems with their stroke and STILL got to the Finals. It seems Phelps, Locte & the Chinese proved best technique is King. What do you think? But perhaps MOST impressive was how much FUN the American swimmers were having all the time. Very inspiring!
Gary.....this is almost straight from the master, Doc Counsilman himself! I have two sprinters, both 21.5 (short course yards), should I have them change to the high elbow for the 50? Nick Gearhart
My pull is INWARDS (to the chest) and not below (with elbow far outside) it's another of those things they scold me for. Also I tend to pull very soon as I plunge hand into water. I am sure it's not the best method but it counters the overuse of the long biceps tendon (both of which I had an injury to). Considering I got just 8' behind the winner of IronMan France (at swimming leg only of course!) I'd say it's not too bad. That's perhaps another of the tips to show in the DVD.
I would always vote for less drag over more power. Pulling deep is like putting your foot on the gas and brake at the same time. You may give up some power with a high elbow, but you save a lot of energy in the longer run. At The Race Club, we try to teach the unobvious way to get you faster. Gary Sr.
Well, being more than a little 'different', like who else ever swims the competition style of side stroke, I do have to experiment. So, when doing my sprints last week, I experimented with the longer arm pull and the shorter arm pull, about 120 degree bend vs 90 degree bend, my times with the longer arm was slower in the 50 yard spring than the shorter arm pull by about 3 seconds. The stroke count with with the long arm pull was about 8 per 25 yard, compared to 10 per 25 yard length, counting the break out stroke as 1... Trying to figure it out. Best guess is it could be that I don't have the brute strength to be able to use the long arm pull efficiently. I don't have the upper body and shoulder strength that I did in my days as a concrete finisher.... I have been using the longer arm pull in most of my laps so wouldn't think I would be that much weaker. Other than that, the shorter arm pull seems to be at a higher cadence/lower gear for the sprint. More experimenting.... Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway.....
If you were a concrete finisher you likely have big biceps that are bad for swimming...lots of drag. In your case, avoiding dropping that big bicep down in the water and reducing frontal drag trumps the extra propulsion that you might be getting. Stroke rate is extremely important...like RPM in your car...so that also may be the reason you were 3 secs faster.
@@theraceclub Well, it isn't the bulging biceps... As a concrete finisher, I spent most of my time on hands and knees, upper body support on one arm, and troweling with the other, kind of a wax on/wax off thing. Have to see if I can get the higher tempo with the longer arm method... Not sure. I do think I need more of the one length max sprint type laps. I don't have any quick twitch muscles... Built like a fullback. When young and buff, I was 6 foot and 195.... Trying to get back to the 195....
If possible, coach, I'd like to see why my swimming coaches want me to twist the hand in a sort of butterfly move. To me it feels like a minimal advantage at the expense of extra elbow and shoulder stress. Pushing outwards with the hand can be dangerous and not advisable but maybe there's a way to do it correctly? In other words, they DO tell me to do it and I can, but I keep reverting to the normal free style. I need to SEE it in the video PLEASE. :-)
Why would the speed of the upper arm be different with both stroke types? I agree with high elbow, but I suspect it has more to do with the use of the Lattimus Dorsi muscle
With the deep pull, the upper arm that is moving forward with the fastest speed (of all of the arm/hand) deviates quickly from the line of the swimmer's motion. This 'off-axis' shape of the arm causes an abrupt increase in the drag coefficient compared to the high elbow pull, that maintains the upper arm closer to this line of motion longer and spends much less time in the off-axis position. Hope this helps. Gary Sr.
If you cover 50meters in 25 seconds and are traveling through the water at 2 meters per second constantly beginign to finish. dosent each part of your body have to be traveling AT LEAST 2 meters per second. Since your hand is attatched to your body how can it go slower??
What about something like a 50 freestyle? I notice a lot of the pros have a really deep pull in the 50. I swim with a deeper pull as well, but do you think it would be faster to aim for a higher elbow?
Hi Gary, love these videos ! For sprints, 50m freestyle especially do the world fastest swimmers compromise and have their hand a little deeper in the water than say Ian Thorpe? Or do all swimmers swim with a very high elbow and EVF? I cant tell from camera footage what they do. Thanks
The 50 m sprint is the one event where swimmers get away with a deep pull. Not all of them, however. Roland Schoeman was here last week and pulls very deep (too deep I think). So does George Bovell. Cielo, Manadou, Gary Jr and others pulled with a higher elbow. I think they have it right. Too deep creates too much drag. One needs to compromise on power...but not to the highest (least drag) elbow position on the 50. 100 on up...elbows need to be very high.
The 50 is the race where kicking plays a major part as opposed to longer races where if you use your legs too much, the positive forward propulsion does not justify the o2 used to power for these big muscles, Comparing just arm styles for these swimmers is difficult. I don't want to sound negative but was 'scouted' at a young age (reason? my arm length is 2m but I stand at 1.83m(so looked to have potential). Problem, I stunk at comps and preferred rugby. So as they say "those that cant - teach."20 years. Now after 20years of rugby and 2 brain tumour removals, I am paralysed on my left side so swim with one arm I cant kick so just use one arm. Try and use one arm that is high, low - 's' shaped ect, you will soon spot the positives and weaknesses of each.
Ty for great tip Mr. Hall. I grasp this concept right away maybe b/c I have math/physics background. I'm a person who is in there mid 40's who has back swimming again 2years and about four 30min swims a week and is first and foremost trying to avoid joint strain. I do a 44yd swim in just under 25sec with flip turn just for once a week for fun at end of workout so speed isn't my #1 consideration these days since old injuries and arthritis. My question is what technique would best for steady rhythmic 30 min lap swim session as it relates to having least amount of shoulder joint strain over the long term? These days I think my technique is probably some in between these 2 extremes you discussed. TY again!
The most relaxing way to swim freestyle is with hip-driven (slower stroke rate), using good body rotation. This technique works better with a strong kick...but may be the best technique for you.
Excellent video thank you! I've been trying the EVF but end up with lots of strain / pressure on the top of the scapula and deltoid so just after bending the forearm down at the initial part of the catch. I just can't work out if it's due to inflexibility or bad technique. Any advice you could give would be great!
The motion of EVF is not easy and requires flexibility. It places strain on the supraspinatus tendon/muscle on top of the scapula. Like any motion/movement requiring force, it must be practiced slowly, then faster. It does require flexibility to do correctly, particularly extension of arm in the shoulder joint and internal rotation. Practice makes perfect.
If you pull underneath your body and chest, I can assure you that you are causing more frontal drag with that motion than by pulling with a high elbow. You might be a lot better swimmer than the winner of IronMan France...and might have finished ahead of him if you would pull correctly. Just watch all of the elite swimmers in the finals of the Olympic 1500. None are pulling inwards to the chest. The high elbow will put less pressure on the biceps tendon.
I've been confused which technique to use when you're doing a 50m sprint freestyle. Since you won't be taking much breath the windmill straight arm technique with a lot of pull power seems to be logical. Or would you be able to achieve faster times with the high elbow catch in the 50 free?
I am actually pulling with my elbow almost at the surface, and I am used to it, but I have seen people pulling less "high elbow" than me and they are going way faster than I am. I don't know why
Typically, the shortest race (50 meters) calls for a deeper pull with more drag and more propulsion. All other distances from 100 meters and up should use the high elbow pulling motion.
Loking at the swimmer at 2:48 i wonder if he is keeping his forearms too much "under is body" (the angle between the arm and the forearm is too small). In another video from theraceclub, is said to keep the arms wide, not under the body, so i am a bit confused. What's the most efficent way and what drills can help to achieve that? Thanks.
I HAVE SWAM LONG DISTANCE IN LAKE MICHIGAN FOR 37 YEARS INCLUDING LAST 4 WINTERS . 95% OF THE TRIATHLON CONTESTANTS ONLY TRAIN IN A HEATED SWIMMING POOL AND HAVE A VERY HARD TIME ON RACE DAY IN THE LAKE BECAUSE ITS. COLDER , DEEPER , NO WALLS , NO LANE MARKERS ON THE BOTTOM TO FOLLOW , WAVY ...DO YOUR SELF A BIG FAVOR AND SPEND AS MUCH TIME AS POSSIBLE SWIMMING IN OPEN WATER AND TAKE PROFESSIONAL LESSONS TO LEARN HOW TO SWIM CORRECTLY.
1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,660 Hi, I'm Gary Hall Senior from the Race Club. 안녕하세요. 저는 the Race Club의 Garry Hall Senior입니다. 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:09,440 this week in the secret tip, we're gonna talk about the way in which we pull underwater in the freestyle stroke 이번주의 비결에서는, 자유형수영에서의 물속에서 팔을 당기는 방법에 대해 이야기하겠습니다. 3 00:00:09,620 --> 00:00:13,620 You know, what I say applies also to butterfly and breaststroke. 제가 드리는 설명이 접영과 평영에도 똑같이 적용되긴 합니다만, 4 00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:16,540 Let's talk specifically about freestyle today. 오늘은 자유형에 국한해서만 말하겠습니다. 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,000 A lot of you may not even realize that you have a choice. 많은 분들이 또다른 선택이 있을 수 있다는 사실을 깨닫지 조차 못합니다. 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,100 You just stick your arm in the water and you start pulling. And you think that's the way it's done. 그냥 물속에 팔을 꽂아 넣고 당기기 시작합니다. 물젓기는 항상 그렇게 해야만 한다고 생각합니다. 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,220 But you have options. 하지만 또 다른 선택을 할 수 있습니다. 8 00:00:27,230 --> 00:00:31,689 Let me give you what the two options are. The most extreme option is one 선택할 수 있는 두 가지 옵션에 대해 설명하겠습니다. 가장 극단적으로 할 수 있는 한 가지는, 9 00:00:31,689 --> 00:00:41,249 you put your arm in and you pull almost straight down and in some cases the hand crosses over underneath the body and then releases. 물 속에 넣고 아래방향으로 팔을 쭉 펴서 당기는 것입니다. 가끔씩 몸통 아래의 중심선을 넘기도 합니다. 그리고 놓습니다. 10 00:00:41,380 --> 00:00:43,100 At the other extreme, 반대편 극단에서는, 11 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:47,129 you enter the hand and the elbow stays almost at the surface, 손을 물에 넣은 후 팔꿈치를 표면 가까이 유지하면서, 12 00:00:47,129 --> 00:00:53,349 and you pull almost to the side with a very shallow hand and then the hand releases . 손을 아주 얕게 하여 거의 옆으로 당깁니다. 그리고 놓습니다. 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,960 So, what's the difference between those two extreme different ways of pulling underwater? 그러면, 물속에서 당기는, 이 두 가지 극단적인 방법 간의 차이점은 무엇일까요? 14 00:00:59,060 --> 00:01:02,200 or has to do with efficiency? 또한 어떤 방법이 효율적일까요? 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:09,620 When we measure efficiency, we have to look at the propulsive power against the frontal drag. 효율성을 가늠하려면, 전방 저항과 비교하면서 추진력을 따져봐야 합니다. 16 00:01:09,660 --> 00:01:14,440 The speed that we can generate is directly proportional to the power that we generate. 생성가능한 속도는 생성되는 힘에 정비례합나다. 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:21,380 But it's inversely proportional to the drag or frontal drag that we create during our swimming. 하지만 속도는, 수영하는 동안 생성되는 저항 또는 전방 저항에 반비례합니다. 18 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:24,180 So, let's start first with power. 그럼, 먼저 힘에 대하여 이야기해봅시다. 19 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:29,620 Let's take the first extreme example when we pull straight down and even underneath this. 첫 번째 극단적인 사례를 살펴보겠습니다. 아래쪽으로 쭉 펴서 당기며, 심지어 반대편 아래로 지나기도 합니다. 20 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:36,260 When we create that motion, our shoulder joint is in, what we call, a positive angle. 이 동작을 행할 때, 어깨관절은 포지티브 앵글(+, 양의 각도)이라 불리는 상태에 있습니다. 21 00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:39,920 If you look at me now, this is neutral, this is the zero angle. 제가 지금 취한 자세는, 중립상태, 즉 제로 앵글(0, 0의 각도)입니다. 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,280 This is flexion or a positive angle. And when the shoulder joint moves behind me, 이 자세는 굴곡 또는 양의 각도입니다. 그리고, 어깨 관절이 등 뒤쪽으로 가 있을 때는, 23 00:01:45,299 --> 00:01:48,399 that's called a negative angle or extension. 음의 각도 또는 신전이라고 합니다. 24 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,320 The most powerful position we can be in, mechanically, 생체역학의 측면에서 보았을 때는, 25 00:01:52,329 --> 00:01:57,329 to swim, is when the shoulder is in this front positive position. 수영을 할 때에, 어깨가 전방 양의 각도 위치에 있을 때, 가장 강한 힘을 낼 수 있습니다. 26 00:01:57,329 --> 00:02:05,449 So, when we're pulling down and underneath this, our shoulder is in that exact same position so we're in a very powerful position. 즉, 아래쪽으로 쭉 펴서, 반대편 아래로 지나게 당길 때, 우리 어깨는 바로 그 자리에 있어서, 강력한 힘을 낼 수 있습니다. 27 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:10,580 So, it turns out, as we pull this way, we can generate more power. 이제, 이런 식으로 당기면, 보다 많은 힘을 낼 수 있다는 것이 드러났습니다. 28 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:17,920 How do I know that? Well, if you're in the high elbow position, or what we call the early vertical forearm, 어떻게 아냐구요? 글쎄요, 하이엘보우 포지션, 다른 말로 EVF 자세를 취하면서, 29 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:21,360 and recovering with the other hand over-the-top, 반대쪽 손을, 이 위쪽을 지나서 리커버리(회수) 할 때에, 30 00:02:21,370 --> 00:02:25,170 you now put yourself into an extended position, 몸은 과신전 상태에 있게 됩니다. 31 00:02:25,170 --> 00:02:28,850 where both shoulders are pointing back, arms are pointing back 양쪽 어깨가 등을 향해 있고, 양팔도 등을 향해 있는. 32 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:33,860 And that weakens the power that is generated with the high elbow. 과신전 상태에서, 하이엘보우로 생성되는 힘은 약해집니다. 33 00:02:33,860 --> 00:02:37,160 And so when we look at swimmers underwater, 이제 물 아래에서부터 수영하는 모습을 보면, 34 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,940 and we see most of the swimmers pull in this position the position I called power. 대부분의 선수들은, 제가 파워라고 부르는, 이 자세로 물을 당깁니다. 35 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:45,940 But when we look at the fastest swimmers in the world, 하지만, 세계적으로 빠른 선수들을 보게 되면, 36 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,420 they're not pulling that way, they're pulling with the elbow extremely high. 이 방식으로 당기지 않고, 팔꿈치를 아주 높이 하여 당기고 있습니다. 37 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:56,420 Why? the answer has to do with frontal drag. 왜 그럴까요? 그 답은 전방 저항과 관련이 있습니다. 38 00:02:56,540 --> 00:03:04,660 The reason there in that position is that it reduces drag dramatically, over the deep dropped elbow position 그 이유는 그 자세를 취하면, 팔꿈치를 깊숙히 집어넣는 것에 비하여, 저항을 현저하게 줄일 수 있기 때문입니다. 39 00:03:04,660 --> 00:03:06,840 Why does it do that? 왜 그렇게 될까요? 40 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:13,000 Well, in order to understand the drag forces that are imposed on the arm, during the freestyle pull, 자유형에서 팔을 당기는 동안, 팔에 부과되는 저항력을 이해하려면, 41 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:19,680 you have to understand what the velocity of all the parts of the arm are, during the pull cycle. 당기는 시간 동안, 팔 각 부분의 속도가 얼마나 되는 지 알아야 합니다. 42 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,400 And they're different. 모두 다릅니다. 43 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:26,180 Well let's start with the human body. Let's assume that we're very good swimmers, 몸통부터 이야기해 보죠. 우리가 아주 빠른 수영선수라고 생각하고, 44 00:03:26,260 --> 00:03:30,280 and that we can swim fifty meters in 25 seconds. 50미터를 25초에 주파한다고 가정합시다. 45 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,620 That means that our body was moving in two meters per second for that 50 meters. 이 말은, 우리 몸통이 50 미터 거리를, 초당 2미터로 움직인다는 뜻입니다. 46 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:42,300 So, the question is how fast is our arm moving in the water, if our body is moving at two meters per second. 이제, 몸통이 초당 2미터로 움직이는 동안, 팔은 얼마나 빨리 움직이는냐가 문제입니다. 47 00:03:42,300 --> 00:03:44,840 Let's start with the hand. 손을 먼저 생각해보십시오. 48 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,820 First of all, most great swimmers, 먼저, 대부분의 최고 수준의 선수들은, 49 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:56,480 their hand will enter the water, and go through the cycle, and leave the water, almost in the exact same position that it entered. 손이 입수하고, 일련의 싸이클을 지나, 출수하는 데, 입수할 때와 똑 같은 위치에서 출수합니다. 50 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:02,660 That means that the net velocity of the hand underwater was 0. 그 의미는 물 속에서의, 손의 실제 속도는 0이라는 것입니다. 51 00:04:02,660 --> 00:04:06,760 That also means that the hand did not contribute to any frontal drag, 이 것은, 손에 의한 전방저항은 없다는 것을 의미합니다. 52 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:10,060 because in order to create drag you have to have motion, 왜냐하면 움직임이 있어야만 저항이 생기기 때문입니다. 53 00:04:10,060 --> 00:04:13,960 you have to have some size, and you have to have some motion. 어느 정도의 크기와 어떤 움직임이 있어야만 합니다. 54 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,500 So, if the hand's net velocity is 0, 그러면, 손의 실제속도가 0일 경우에, 55 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:20,940 what about the rest of the arm, what is it doing during the stroke cycle? 팔의 다른 부분은, 스트로크 싸이클을 하는 동안, 속도가 얼마나 될까요? 56 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,180 Let's start with the arm that's attached to the body. 몸통에 붙어있는 팔부터 시작해보겠습니다. 57 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:26,880 Since the body is moving in two meters per second, 몸통이 초당 2미터로 움직이고 있으므로, 58 00:04:27,009 --> 00:04:30,949 this part in the arm has to be moving in two meters per second. 팔에서의 이 부분은 초당 2미터로 움직여야만 합니다. 59 00:04:31,060 --> 00:04:35,200 And as we move down the arm, although it's not necessarily linear, 팔의 아래부분으로 내려가면서, 꼭 선형적이지는 않지만, 60 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,840 the speed gets less, as we move down the arm. 속도는 팔 아래로 내려가면서 점점 줄어듭니다. 61 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:46,220 So, here, maybe two meters per second. Here, a meter and a half. One meter. A half. To 0. 그래서, 이 부분은, 아마도 초당 2미터. 여기는 1 미터 50 센티, 1 미터, 50 센티, 그리고 0. 62 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:53,180 The point is that the further up we go in the arm, the faster forward the arm is moving. 요점은, 팔의 위쪽으로 갈수록, 더 빠른 속도로 앞쪽으로 움직이고 있다는 것입니다. 63 00:04:53,180 --> 00:04:58,820 The faster the the arm is moving, and the bigger the arm is, the more frontal drag. 움직이는 속도가 빠를수록, 팔이 더 클수록, 전방 저항은 커집니다. 64 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:06,380 So, most of the drag of the arm is contributed by the upper part of the arm, not the lower part of the arm. 따라서, 팔에 의해 생기는 저항의 대부분은, 아래쪽(손쪽)이 아니라, 위쪽 부분에 의해서 생성됩니다. 65 00:05:06,380 --> 00:05:09,000 So how does that affect our pull? 이 사실이 우리가 당기기하는 방식과 무슨 관련이 있을까요? 66 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,440 We'll consider the fact that when you're pulling deep, 깊게 당기는 경우를 검토해 보면, 67 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,700 this part of the arm goes off alignment, off axis almost instantly. 팔의 이부분이 정렬선에서 벗어나서, 거의 즉시 축에서 벗어나게 됩니다. 68 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:22,500 As soon as any part of our body sticks out, or goes off axis, 우리 몸의 어떤 부분이라도 삐져나오는 순간, 즉 축에서 벗어나는 순간, 69 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,320 the drag force will go go up tremendously. 저항력은 엄청나게 증가합니다. 70 00:05:26,340 --> 00:05:29,320 If we, in contrast to that, to the high elbow, 이와 반대로, 하이엘보우 기술을 쓸 경우, 71 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,940 we keep the upper arm, in almost in the line of motion, as long as possible 팔의 위쪽 부분을, 가능한 오랫동안, 거의 일직선 상에서 움직인다면, 72 00:05:34,940 --> 00:05:39,460 until we're forced to have to pull it back and get it out of the water, 더 이상 버틸 수 없어서 뒤로 당겨 출수할 수 밖에 없을 때까지, 73 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:46,280 the net effect of that is, we say, in a better drag position here, than we do when we come deep. 그 효과들을 다 합치면, 이렇게 당기는 것이, 깊이 당길 때보다, 저항력에 대하여 보다 좋은 위치에 있다고 말합니다. 74 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,120 The other reason that the drag is greater, when we pull deep, 깊이 당길 때, 저항력이 커지는 또 다른 이유는, 75 00:05:50,220 --> 00:05:55,540 is that a straight arm actually creates more drag than a bent arm. 쭉 뻗은 팔이 굽어진 팔보다 더 많은 저항을 일으키기 때문입니다. 76 00:05:55,540 --> 00:06:00,640 Same shape(X), same size, different shape, different drag coefficient. 같은 크기지만, 모양이 달라지므로, 저항 계수가 달라집니다. 77 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,940 So the question is, do I want more power? or do I want less drag? 이제 문제는, 더 큰 힘을 낼 것인가? 아니면, 저항을 줄일것인가? 입니다. 78 00:06:06,940 --> 00:06:11,600 Well, in the world of swimming, drag trumps power. 글쎄요. 수영계에서는, 저항력이 힘을 이기고 있습니다. 79 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:19,500 So it's actually better for you to swim with less frontal drag, in this high elbow position, giving up some power 그래서 저항력이 적은 방법으로 수영하는 것이 더 낫습니다. 힘은 좀 포기하고, 이렇게 하이엘보우 방법으로 하는 것이 80 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:25,780 than it is to pull straight down, and have more power with greater drag. 쭉 뻗어서 깊이 당겨, 힘은 더 내지만, 저항이 훨씬 더 커지는 것보다. 81 00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:30,560 You not only will swim faster in this position, but you won't tire fast. 이렇게 하면, 수영이 빨라질 뿐 아니라, 빨리 지치지도 않게 됩니다. 82 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,720 And that's why you see great swimmers swimming with a high elbow. 이것이 잘난 수영선수들이 하이엘보우로 수영하는 이유입니다.
Well, I did, and they don't require it. Seems as if it's just Scottish Swimming, and even then, maybe only some tutors. Which asks a whole load of new questions... But British Swimming seem clued up.
Actually that's unfair, apparently they don't, it's just the majority of courses I've been on with Scottish Swimming. They blame British Swimming, which says a lot....
As swimmers get faster, drag forces become even more consequential. It is for this reason that technique for advanced swimmers is even more important. Maximizing power is not the goal...maximizing speed is. That requires a compromise of maximum power toward less drag position.
I extend just a bit less than max so I have a SLIGHT move (in tempo it would have been the now removed S) ahead, then almost immediately pull back with the hand that turns 90° INWARDS rather than DOWNWARDS. So imagine right hand enters water 45° down, EXTENDS further ahead, then turns a 90° angle inwards (left) and pulls more or less as much as it would in frogstyle (almost full angle with elbow point) before PUSHING down to the hip (as far as, actually). I know it's hard but am trying. :)
My hand enters water as far ahead as possible (arm almost completely extended) and the pull phase begins when the hand is beneath the water line for the same height of the hand itself (from mid-finger to wrist, that lenght I mean I go "down" as little as I can, this is what I mean). I can actually feel the water pull by the base of my neck so the hand is inwards not downwards. The elbow couldn't possibly be higher than that... it would go OUT of the water. I just had to adapt bc of my injury.
shoulder has 3 degrees free angles of mobility, looking the body staying vertical, we can imagine 3 plans: HORIZONTAL (TRANSVERSAL) on which the humerus makes inner adduction - lateral abduction, neutral 0 degree is with hand in front: on this plan I reffer for +30/+45 lateral; Second plan is SAGITAL (looking lateral the body, like split the body in 2 simmetrical parts), where humerus makes flexion (upward move) and extension (downward move), on this plan the maximal force is on 90 degree
maintaining the forearm all way in that angulation until the arm exits the water or the recover fase, hence the need to maintain an high elbow position. Obviously the area surface presented by the forearm plus the hand on the plane perpendicular to the displacement axis is inferior to the whole arm, but it is more efficient when you verify that the whole arm has only a maximum efficiency when you have it stretched in front on your chest (coincident with perpendicular plane of displacement)
Gary Hall congratulation for concens in physics, hydrodynamic and biomechanics to explain the efficiency in swimming ! If you allows me, I may complete the theory of superior efficiency of flexed-high elbow: 1. more power in flexed arm than straight arm for push back water (leverage III principle- try push down at lat-pull-down fitness equipment straight versus flexed) 2. Propulsive compensation for lateral drag (high elbow) than non-propulsive (elevation) compensation for deep/ down stroke
Is it still coached/taught in the US? I'm guessing it is, but only by individuals, surely the coach education programs have moved on? Didn't even 'Doc' express doubts some time after the idea of S-Shaped pull was born. How come we didn't see S-shaped once at the Olympics, but it makes kids better swimmers? Pffft....
and the 3rd plan is frontal plan (same plan looking on front / in face the human body) on which humerus makes lateral adduction (downward movement) - lateral abduction (downward movment) (involved lateral deltoid muscle). This is the proper terminology in biomechanic, physiology, kinethology
the "clock" it refers Gary is situated in sagital plan. (Looking lateral the swimmer), that's true: on 6 o'clock (perpendicular on longitudinal alignament) / 90 degrees is maximal force.
what if I am a very average (or below average) swimmer who takes 30-35secs for 25m? Is it better to have more power or less drag? I am not aiming to compete, just swimming for recreation
for me when i pull with a straight arm i do better when i do 50 or 100 meter than EVF pull but for 200 or 400 meter EVF is better for me. you know why?
There are many reasons why you might not be progressing. Most of them are because of technical problems....some are from improper training or tapering. It would be hard to help you without seeing you and understanding what you are doing first. I hope you can come visit...or consider online coaching with us if you can't.
I am not exactly sure what you are describing...but you should be extending the hand as far as possible in air before entering the water and whether hip-driving (pushing the hand forward in front) or shoulder-driving (starting an immediate catch/pull) it sounds like you have your elbow in the right spot (near the surface). Just push the hand more or less straight back...no S pattern.
watching ten years later- helpful thanks ---I've been watching a lot of videos over the years and I've never heard about resistance/drag on the arm as you discussed.
I have worked on technique with swimmers from about 6 yrs on up. Typically, they are most attentive and adaptable to technical changes at ages 10 and up. I still think it is worth teaching the technique to young swimmers...but if you don't stay on them..they tend to go back to old bad habits. Yes...many Olympians still make mistakes in technique...even Phelps in the 200 fly mad a few mistakes that cost him.
The hand should drop directly below the elbow to initiate the catch. Do not sweep inward or outward with the hand. But keep the elbow high as the hand pushes backward.
Understanding the physics behind it is fundamental for really understanding the high elbow catch and why it is any better than just submerging your whole arm all the way down and pull with all your power. This video basically stands out from the rest of the high elbow videos because it answers the question of WHY it is better to pull that way as opposed to the rest of the RUclips videos that answer the HOW it should be done. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. That video definitely convinced me that it worth it to try and incorporate the high elbow technique into my swimming.
well stated
I love your videos. You explain the science behind everything and it just makes so much more sense. Wish my swim team coach back in the day would have been able to explain it easily as you do!
your videos are by far the best ones i've seen regarding swimming advice. thank you
I love how technical and scientific you get with these videos. It gives me a real reason to believe you rather than my coach just saying that's the way it is.
This is definitely one of the best videos about the freestyle stroke. Now all I think I still need is advice for beginners about how the movement of the arms can feel as my technique evolves.
I have a slight hunchback and keeping my body streamlined in the water is challenging in itself. To know if I'm pulling with high power/drag, or low power/drag, is not straight-forward - and becomes impossible to tell as my muscles fatigue. One day I'll get the hang of it.
Keep trying...it is not an easy or natural motion to use.
Awesome advice. This guy knows his stuff! Good communicator.
ive recently begun triathlons, i was a runner turned cyclist now trying to swim. im having tremenodus problems and wasting way too much energy in the water. this video made a lot of sense to me and im heading down to the pool now to try it out. thanks coach!
Interesting. Most other videos on high elbow catch say the main reason is for power and engagement of the core. This video provides much needed info.
Yes, high elbow pull generates less propulsion with less drag.
Never too late to change!
Since the body should be rotating during the underwater pull, the shoulder goes from a negative position (with a high elbow) at the beginning of the underwater pull to a neutral, then positive angle as the hand moves backward. The mechanical power increases to a maximum somewhere around the shoulder, then diminishes thereafter until the end of the pull. With a deep pull the negative angle is less or not at all...but the frontal drag forces are greater.
to stop the 'diminishing" effect, bend your arm to 90 deg (releasing the water at or about your ulna and push straight(purchasing new water) back past your tibia socket, this utilises the tricepts and interior delts (more muscles used - longer stroke, power surge at the end. Your other arm enters the water, you get a fraction more time to breath in but mostly this stops 'freewheeling' - if you don't think this is powerful, swim under water and keep your arms by tour side. bend your arms up to90 deg. and push (like an otter), you might just beat your underwater record.
Uncommon knowledge in the physics of swimming, transmitted with great clarity
thanks for watching!
Thank you! Gary Sr.
Awesome Tips Sir ^_^
I'll Try All That Again And Again,..Thanks
Excellent explanation. Never quite heard it explained this way. Now I understand why. thanks.
Great to hear!
We are only measuring and considering the speeds while in the water. When you average in the forward velocity of the hand on the recovery phase through the air, you are right, it is the same as the body, 2 m per second.
Good explanation, thanks 🙏
Thanks!
You cannot avoid a negative angle of the shoulder when you initiate the underwater pull if you are recovering with good body rotation. As the body counter rotates, the negative angle goes away in time for the propulsive phase of the pull.
We will release soon a new DVD called Life is Worth Swimming. You will get it on line and see how two fast freestylers pull a bit differently. Neither pull with the old S-shape pull that some coaches still advocate. The side to side motion of the hand during the pull back should be no more than about 6 to 8 inches. The hand should initiate the pull at the shoulder and drop directly down below the elbow.
Thanks. Will keep that in mind on next shots. Gary Sr
The big difference between hip driven and shoulder driven freestyle is the time the hand remains out front (hip driven much longer). Once the propulsive phase begins, one should pull the hand through as fast as possible (about .35 to .4 seconds) to get the most power.
3. Upper-arm has maxim force at + 30 / + 45 degrees at anterior-adduction ( high elbow but not very "high') than 90 degrees (when engage only rotator- terres & subspinous muscles) and than 0 degrees (very high elbow/ dorsal hyperextended when pectoral is disengaged)
4. Dynamic equilibrium on sagital direction around the thorax-lungs support/ sustention point (Archimedes law) which dynamic elevate the back and legs when the arm is plunged in a slight angle in recovery phase (more than Bernoulli)
before that point, it increases the propulsive force gradually and after that it decreases gradually, meaning that the area surface presented by the whole arm to displace a body has only one angle of maximum efficiency (90º or perpendicular to the body) out of a range of semi-circle angles (since the arm enters the water on the catch fase until exits for the recover fase).
Well, I am still pondering this. I found a video of Sun Yang, the young man from China who smashed the distance record in the last Olympics, and he uses the 90 degree or so pull with his arm more out to the side. Then there is a nice clip of Katie in slow motion, where she uses about a 90 degree elbow bend (actually it seems she uses about 90 on the left arm and about 100+ on the left, which is her breathing side), as she sprints. Her pull is more down than to the side. So, the curiosity side of me wants to get your gadget with the dacron string, hook it up to some swimmers and see if you can get actual measurements for different arm bend angles, out to the sides, etc.... like you did to compare the butterfly kicks.
You are reading our minds! We will have a webisode on four different pulling motions in freestyle and how those affect acceleration, deceleration and velocity. Planned to release in the fall on Lanes 2, 3 and 4. It will be a good one.
Wow ! Awesome video and explanation! Thanks a lot !
Great explanation ! Now I see why the need for high elbow.
Glad you get it now!
If we define x as the horizontal axis, or the axis in which the swimmer is traveling, then the hand leaving the water the same place it entered implies that the *average* velocity along the x direction is 0.
The hand undergoes (approximately) circular motion. Thus, the hand's velocity in the x-direction is slowest when the hand is going down or up, but fastest when it is moving parallel to the floor/surface. The hand will be spend the same amount of time moving forward with respect to the water as it spends moving backwards, in order to have an average of 0.
The hand will generate the most power when it is in the downwards duration of its swing, since that is when its velocity in the -x direction is the fastest. The hand must generate propulsion, otherwise the swimmer is essentially propelling with just legs (which we know is not true); thus the hand's velocity must be negative during some duration of the pull.
The upper portion of the arms move no faster than the hand due to having a shorter distance from the pivot point. They can move as fast as the hand if the high elbow technique is used, so that the forearm's x position is the same as that of the hands during most of the pull.
From a temporal analysis, the pull is most efficient when the arm presents the greatest cross sectional area along the plane perpendicular to the x-axis during which the arm is moving backwards with respect to the water and catching that "forward directing drag", and when it presents the least cross sectional area when the arm is moving forwards with respect to the water.
So ideally (though perhaps not realistically), you should feel a drag pushing your arms *back* as, after just entering the water, they move from the straight (parallel to x) position to a bent (perpendicular to x) position, and when you move from the bent position back to the straight position and exit the water. While your arm is in the bent (perpendicular to x) position, that is when you should feel a drag pushing your arms *forward* as you pull through the water.
+cryora You have put a lot of thought into this. Just a couple of corrections. First, the hand does not move in a perfect circle (of about 2 feet in diameter) with shoulder driven freestyle. The hand cuts the corner of the clock from 6 to 9 o'clock (hand enters the water at 12 o'clock) in order to keep the hand pushing backward (negative velocity). The hand is what creates 95% or more of the force resulting in propulsion while moving backward (not the forearm). The only part of the arm that pertains to frontal drag is the part moving forward. The upper arm moves forward for much of the duration of the underwater pull. Therefore the position of the upper arm is critical to minimizing frontal drag. You are right in that the swimmer will feel the propulsive drag force against the hand (moving backward or downward, creating lift) but not the frontal drag forces caused by the upper arm. Hope this helps.
Dont kno who d speaker is....bt definatley d best analytical video on scientific basis that i have ever cm a'X
Thank you for this excellent explanation!
You are welcome!
GREAT ! thank you wise guy :) !
We did a whole series that explains this question in greater detail search for "Fast Swimming Underwater Pull Series" hope this helps!
Question: Is perfecting technique #1 priority for our little swimmers rather than trying to improve their endurance and strength in their first year of training? It was amazing how many 2012 Olympic swimmers powered their way over some fundamental problems with their stroke and STILL got to the Finals. It seems Phelps, Locte & the Chinese proved best technique is King. What do you think? But perhaps MOST impressive was how much FUN the American swimmers were having all the time. Very inspiring!
Great insight, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Gary.....this is almost straight from the master, Doc Counsilman himself! I have two sprinters, both 21.5 (short course yards), should I have them change to the high elbow for the 50? Nick Gearhart
My pull is INWARDS (to the chest) and not below (with elbow far outside) it's another of those things they scold me for. Also I tend to pull very soon as I plunge hand into water.
I am sure it's not the best method but it counters the overuse of the long biceps tendon (both of which I had an injury to). Considering I got just 8' behind the winner of IronMan France (at swimming leg only of course!) I'd say it's not too bad. That's perhaps another of the tips to show in the DVD.
Wow! Thanks! I now have a better future awaiting for me..
Einstein of swimmming
Thanks for the kind words!
I would always vote for less drag over more power. Pulling deep is like putting your foot on the gas and brake at the same time. You may give up some power with a high elbow, but you save a lot of energy in the longer run. At The Race Club, we try to teach the unobvious way to get you faster.
Gary Sr.
Thanks for the video. I am training for my first Tri and didn't realize there was a difference. Guess I should have hired a trainer.
Well, being more than a little 'different', like who else ever swims the competition style of side stroke, I do have to experiment. So, when doing my sprints last week, I experimented with the longer arm pull and the shorter arm pull, about 120 degree bend vs 90 degree bend, my times with the longer arm was slower in the 50 yard spring than the shorter arm pull by about 3 seconds. The stroke count with with the long arm pull was about 8 per 25 yard, compared to 10 per 25 yard length, counting the break out stroke as 1... Trying to figure it out. Best guess is it could be that I don't have the brute strength to be able to use the long arm pull efficiently. I don't have the upper body and shoulder strength that I did in my days as a concrete finisher.... I have been using the longer arm pull in most of my laps so wouldn't think I would be that much weaker. Other than that, the shorter arm pull seems to be at a higher cadence/lower gear for the sprint. More experimenting.... Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway.....
If you were a concrete finisher you likely have big biceps that are bad for swimming...lots of drag. In your case, avoiding dropping that big bicep down in the water and reducing frontal drag trumps the extra propulsion that you might be getting. Stroke rate is extremely important...like RPM in your car...so that also may be the reason you were 3 secs faster.
@@theraceclub Well, it isn't the bulging biceps... As a concrete finisher, I spent most of my time on hands and knees, upper body support on one arm, and troweling with the other, kind of a wax on/wax off thing. Have to see if I can get the higher tempo with the longer arm method... Not sure. I do think I need more of the one length max sprint type laps. I don't have any quick twitch muscles... Built like a fullback. When young and buff, I was 6 foot and 195.... Trying to get back to the 195....
If possible, coach, I'd like to see why my swimming coaches want me to twist the hand in a sort of butterfly move. To me it feels like a minimal advantage at the expense of extra elbow and shoulder stress.
Pushing outwards with the hand can be dangerous and not advisable but maybe there's a way to do it correctly? In other words, they DO tell me to do it and I can, but I keep reverting to the normal free style. I need to SEE it in the video PLEASE. :-)
is that a green screen behind you? GREAT VIDEO BY THE WAY!
Wow - so close I live in Miami Beach I had no idea. Are there weekend camp session or something like that for adults available ?
Why would the speed of the upper arm be different with both stroke types? I agree with high elbow, but I suspect it has more to do with the use of the Lattimus Dorsi muscle
where is that pool i like it
With the deep pull, the upper arm that is moving forward with the fastest speed (of all of the arm/hand) deviates quickly from the line of the swimmer's motion. This 'off-axis' shape of the arm causes an abrupt increase in the drag coefficient compared to the high elbow pull, that maintains the upper arm closer to this line of motion longer and spends much less time in the off-axis position. Hope this helps.
Gary Sr.
excellent, thank you Sir.
You are welcome!
If you cover 50meters in 25 seconds and are traveling through the water at 2 meters per second constantly beginign to finish. dosent each part of your body have to be traveling AT LEAST 2 meters per second. Since your hand is attatched to your body how can it go slower??
What about something like a 50 freestyle? I notice a lot of the pros have a really deep pull in the 50. I swim with a deeper pull as well, but do you think it would be faster to aim for a higher elbow?
If you're a sprint freestyler, stick to a deeper pull. For longer events, pull with a higher elbow.
@@theraceclub okay thank you so much
You're welcome!
PERFECT VIDEO!!!!
Hi Gary, love these videos ! For sprints, 50m freestyle especially do the world fastest swimmers compromise and have their hand a little deeper in the water than say Ian Thorpe? Or do all swimmers swim with a very high elbow and EVF? I cant tell from camera footage what they do. Thanks
The 50 m sprint is the one event where swimmers get away with a deep pull. Not all of them, however. Roland Schoeman was here last week and pulls very deep (too deep I think). So does George Bovell. Cielo, Manadou, Gary Jr and others pulled with a higher elbow. I think they have it right. Too deep creates too much drag. One needs to compromise on power...but not to the highest (least drag) elbow position on the 50. 100 on up...elbows need to be very high.
The 50 is the race where kicking plays a major part as opposed to longer races where if you use your legs too much, the positive forward propulsion does not justify the o2 used to power for these big muscles, Comparing just arm styles for these swimmers is difficult. I don't want to sound negative but was 'scouted' at a young age (reason? my arm length is 2m but I stand at 1.83m(so looked to have potential). Problem, I stunk at comps and preferred rugby. So as they say "those that cant - teach."20 years. Now after 20years of rugby and 2 brain tumour removals, I am paralysed on my left side so swim with one arm I cant kick so just use one arm. Try and use one arm that is high, low - 's' shaped ect, you will soon spot the positives and weaknesses of each.
Ace video
Ty for great tip Mr. Hall. I grasp this concept right away maybe b/c I have math/physics background. I'm a person who is in there mid 40's who has back swimming again 2years and about four 30min swims a week and is first and foremost trying to avoid joint strain. I do a 44yd swim in just under 25sec with flip turn just for once a week for fun at end of workout so speed isn't my #1 consideration these days since old injuries and arthritis. My question is what technique would best for steady rhythmic 30 min lap swim session as it relates to having least amount of shoulder joint strain over the long term? These days I think my technique is probably some in between these 2 extremes you discussed. TY again!
The most relaxing way to swim freestyle is with hip-driven (slower stroke rate), using good body rotation. This technique works better with a strong kick...but may be the best technique for you.
hey gary, is there anything i should do differently with double jointed elbows?
You didn’t smash them like guitars did you Gary ?
Haha not quite!
Anyway, excellent sound advice on 'drag'
Thank you!
So for sprinting 50m should I have a bent elbow or straight?
Straight or nearly straight on recovery and deep on pull.
Excellent video thank you! I've been trying the EVF but end up with lots of strain / pressure on the top of the scapula and deltoid so just after bending the forearm down at the initial part of the catch. I just can't work out if it's due to inflexibility or bad technique. Any advice you could give would be great!
The motion of EVF is not easy and requires flexibility. It places strain on the supraspinatus tendon/muscle on top of the scapula. Like any motion/movement requiring force, it must be practiced slowly, then faster. It does require flexibility to do correctly, particularly extension of arm in the shoulder joint and internal rotation. Practice makes perfect.
Thx!
If you pull underneath your body and chest, I can assure you that you are causing more frontal drag with that motion than by pulling with a high elbow. You might be a lot better swimmer than the winner of IronMan France...and might have finished ahead of him if you would pull correctly. Just watch all of the elite swimmers in the finals of the Olympic 1500. None are pulling inwards to the chest. The high elbow will put less pressure on the biceps tendon.
I've been confused which technique to use when you're doing a 50m sprint freestyle. Since you won't be taking much breath the windmill straight arm technique with a lot of pull power seems to be logical. Or would you be able to achieve faster times with the high elbow catch in the 50 free?
Deeper catch, straighter arms and fast stroke rate
We should pull along sides of body or under the body? Why?
Along side the body, nearly straight backwards.
Pulling under the body will lead to the upper arm coming nearly straight down during the pull and results in more frontal drag.
I am actually pulling with my elbow almost at the surface, and I am used to it, but I have seen people pulling less "high elbow" than me and they are going way faster than I am. I don't know why
The shorter the race, the deeper the elbow can be under water. High elbow pulling is mostly used for 200 m and up.
Great!
Thank you!
They are not the only ones still living in the past.
Yes...some coaches still teach the S-shaped pull...but most elite coaches now recognize that is not the way to pull with maximum power.
One technique is better for long distance and the other for short distance (sprinting)
Typically, the shortest race (50 meters) calls for a deeper pull with more drag and more propulsion. All other distances from 100 meters and up should use the high elbow pulling motion.
Loking at the swimmer at 2:48 i wonder if he is keeping his forearms too much "under is body" (the angle between the arm and the forearm is too small). In another video from theraceclub, is said to keep the arms wide, not under the body, so i am a bit confused. What's the most efficent way and what drills can help to achieve that? Thanks.
Try to keep the elbow about one inch under the surface on the pull through, with the hand just inside the elbow.
Thanks.
I HAVE SWAM LONG DISTANCE IN LAKE MICHIGAN FOR 37 YEARS INCLUDING LAST 4 WINTERS . 95% OF THE TRIATHLON CONTESTANTS ONLY TRAIN IN A HEATED SWIMMING POOL AND HAVE A VERY HARD TIME ON RACE DAY IN THE LAKE BECAUSE ITS. COLDER , DEEPER , NO WALLS , NO LANE MARKERS ON THE BOTTOM TO FOLLOW , WAVY ...DO YOUR SELF A BIG FAVOR AND SPEND AS MUCH TIME AS POSSIBLE SWIMMING IN OPEN WATER AND TAKE PROFESSIONAL LESSONS TO LEARN HOW TO SWIM CORRECTLY.
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Hi, I'm Gary Hall Senior from the Race Club.
안녕하세요. 저는 the Race Club의 Garry Hall Senior입니다.
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this week in the secret tip, we're gonna talk about the way in which we pull underwater in the freestyle stroke
이번주의 비결에서는, 자유형수영에서의 물속에서 팔을 당기는 방법에 대해 이야기하겠습니다.
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You know, what I say applies also to butterfly and breaststroke.
제가 드리는 설명이 접영과 평영에도 똑같이 적용되긴 합니다만,
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Let's talk specifically about freestyle today.
오늘은 자유형에 국한해서만 말하겠습니다.
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A lot of you may not even realize that you have a choice.
많은 분들이 또다른 선택이 있을 수 있다는 사실을 깨닫지 조차 못합니다.
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You just stick your arm in the water and you start pulling. And you think that's the way it's done.
그냥 물속에 팔을 꽂아 넣고 당기기 시작합니다. 물젓기는 항상 그렇게 해야만 한다고 생각합니다.
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But you have options.
하지만 또 다른 선택을 할 수 있습니다.
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Let me give you what the two options are. The most extreme option is one
선택할 수 있는 두 가지 옵션에 대해 설명하겠습니다. 가장 극단적으로 할 수 있는 한 가지는,
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you put your arm in and you pull almost straight down and in some cases the hand crosses over underneath the body and then releases.
물 속에 넣고 아래방향으로 팔을 쭉 펴서 당기는 것입니다. 가끔씩 몸통 아래의 중심선을 넘기도 합니다. 그리고 놓습니다.
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At the other extreme,
반대편 극단에서는,
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you enter the hand and the elbow stays almost at the surface,
손을 물에 넣은 후 팔꿈치를 표면 가까이 유지하면서,
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and you pull almost to the side with a very shallow hand and then the hand releases .
손을 아주 얕게 하여 거의 옆으로 당깁니다. 그리고 놓습니다.
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So, what's the difference between those two extreme different ways of pulling underwater?
그러면, 물속에서 당기는, 이 두 가지 극단적인 방법 간의 차이점은 무엇일까요?
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or has to do with efficiency?
또한 어떤 방법이 효율적일까요?
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When we measure efficiency, we have to look at the propulsive power against the frontal drag.
효율성을 가늠하려면, 전방 저항과 비교하면서 추진력을 따져봐야 합니다.
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The speed that we can generate is directly proportional to the power that we generate.
생성가능한 속도는 생성되는 힘에 정비례합나다.
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But it's inversely proportional to the drag or frontal drag that we create during our swimming.
하지만 속도는, 수영하는 동안 생성되는 저항 또는 전방 저항에 반비례합니다.
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So, let's start first with power.
그럼, 먼저 힘에 대하여 이야기해봅시다.
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Let's take the first extreme example when we pull straight down and even underneath this.
첫 번째 극단적인 사례를 살펴보겠습니다. 아래쪽으로 쭉 펴서 당기며, 심지어 반대편 아래로 지나기도 합니다.
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When we create that motion, our shoulder joint is in, what we call, a positive angle.
이 동작을 행할 때, 어깨관절은 포지티브 앵글(+, 양의 각도)이라 불리는 상태에 있습니다.
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If you look at me now, this is neutral, this is the zero angle.
제가 지금 취한 자세는, 중립상태, 즉 제로 앵글(0, 0의 각도)입니다.
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This is flexion or a positive angle. And when the shoulder joint moves behind me,
이 자세는 굴곡 또는 양의 각도입니다. 그리고, 어깨 관절이 등 뒤쪽으로 가 있을 때는,
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that's called a negative angle or extension.
음의 각도 또는 신전이라고 합니다.
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The most powerful position we can be in, mechanically,
생체역학의 측면에서 보았을 때는,
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to swim, is when the shoulder is in this front positive position.
수영을 할 때에, 어깨가 전방 양의 각도 위치에 있을 때, 가장 강한 힘을 낼 수 있습니다.
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So, when we're pulling down and underneath this, our shoulder is in that exact same position so we're in a very powerful position.
즉, 아래쪽으로 쭉 펴서, 반대편 아래로 지나게 당길 때, 우리 어깨는 바로 그 자리에 있어서, 강력한 힘을 낼 수 있습니다.
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So, it turns out, as we pull this way, we can generate more power.
이제, 이런 식으로 당기면, 보다 많은 힘을 낼 수 있다는 것이 드러났습니다.
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How do I know that? Well, if you're in the high elbow position, or what we call the early vertical forearm,
어떻게 아냐구요? 글쎄요, 하이엘보우 포지션, 다른 말로 EVF 자세를 취하면서,
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and recovering with the other hand over-the-top,
반대쪽 손을, 이 위쪽을 지나서 리커버리(회수) 할 때에,
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you now put yourself into an extended position,
몸은 과신전 상태에 있게 됩니다.
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where both shoulders are pointing back, arms are pointing back
양쪽 어깨가 등을 향해 있고, 양팔도 등을 향해 있는.
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And that weakens the power that is generated with the high elbow.
과신전 상태에서, 하이엘보우로 생성되는 힘은 약해집니다.
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And so when we look at swimmers underwater,
이제 물 아래에서부터 수영하는 모습을 보면,
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and we see most of the swimmers pull in this position the position I called power.
대부분의 선수들은, 제가 파워라고 부르는, 이 자세로 물을 당깁니다.
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But when we look at the fastest swimmers in the world,
하지만, 세계적으로 빠른 선수들을 보게 되면,
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they're not pulling that way, they're pulling with the elbow extremely high.
이 방식으로 당기지 않고, 팔꿈치를 아주 높이 하여 당기고 있습니다.
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Why? the answer has to do with frontal drag.
왜 그럴까요? 그 답은 전방 저항과 관련이 있습니다.
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The reason there in that position is that it reduces drag dramatically, over the deep dropped elbow position
그 이유는 그 자세를 취하면, 팔꿈치를 깊숙히 집어넣는 것에 비하여, 저항을 현저하게 줄일 수 있기 때문입니다.
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Why does it do that?
왜 그렇게 될까요?
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Well, in order to understand the drag forces that are imposed on the arm, during the freestyle pull,
자유형에서 팔을 당기는 동안, 팔에 부과되는 저항력을 이해하려면,
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you have to understand what the velocity of all the parts of the arm are, during the pull cycle.
당기는 시간 동안, 팔 각 부분의 속도가 얼마나 되는 지 알아야 합니다.
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And they're different.
모두 다릅니다.
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Well let's start with the human body. Let's assume that we're very good swimmers,
몸통부터 이야기해 보죠. 우리가 아주 빠른 수영선수라고 생각하고,
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and that we can swim fifty meters in 25 seconds.
50미터를 25초에 주파한다고 가정합시다.
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That means that our body was moving in two meters per second for that 50 meters.
이 말은, 우리 몸통이 50 미터 거리를, 초당 2미터로 움직인다는 뜻입니다.
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So, the question is how fast is our arm moving in the water, if our body is moving at two meters per second.
이제, 몸통이 초당 2미터로 움직이는 동안, 팔은 얼마나 빨리 움직이는냐가 문제입니다.
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Let's start with the hand.
손을 먼저 생각해보십시오.
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First of all, most great swimmers,
먼저, 대부분의 최고 수준의 선수들은,
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their hand will enter the water, and go through the cycle, and leave the water, almost in the exact same position that it entered.
손이 입수하고, 일련의 싸이클을 지나, 출수하는 데, 입수할 때와 똑 같은 위치에서 출수합니다.
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That means that the net velocity of the hand underwater was 0.
그 의미는 물 속에서의, 손의 실제 속도는 0이라는 것입니다.
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That also means that the hand did not contribute to any frontal drag,
이 것은, 손에 의한 전방저항은 없다는 것을 의미합니다.
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because in order to create drag you have to have motion,
왜냐하면 움직임이 있어야만 저항이 생기기 때문입니다.
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you have to have some size, and you have to have some motion.
어느 정도의 크기와 어떤 움직임이 있어야만 합니다.
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So, if the hand's net velocity is 0,
그러면, 손의 실제속도가 0일 경우에,
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what about the rest of the arm, what is it doing during the stroke cycle?
팔의 다른 부분은, 스트로크 싸이클을 하는 동안, 속도가 얼마나 될까요?
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Let's start with the arm that's attached to the body.
몸통에 붙어있는 팔부터 시작해보겠습니다.
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Since the body is moving in two meters per second,
몸통이 초당 2미터로 움직이고 있으므로,
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this part in the arm has to be moving in two meters per second.
팔에서의 이 부분은 초당 2미터로 움직여야만 합니다.
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And as we move down the arm, although it's not necessarily linear,
팔의 아래부분으로 내려가면서, 꼭 선형적이지는 않지만,
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the speed gets less, as we move down the arm.
속도는 팔 아래로 내려가면서 점점 줄어듭니다.
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So, here, maybe two meters per second. Here, a meter and a half. One meter. A half. To 0.
그래서, 이 부분은, 아마도 초당 2미터. 여기는 1 미터 50 센티, 1 미터, 50 센티, 그리고 0.
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The point is that the further up we go in the arm, the faster forward the arm is moving.
요점은, 팔의 위쪽으로 갈수록, 더 빠른 속도로 앞쪽으로 움직이고 있다는 것입니다.
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The faster the the arm is moving, and the bigger the arm is, the more frontal drag.
움직이는 속도가 빠를수록, 팔이 더 클수록, 전방 저항은 커집니다.
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So, most of the drag of the arm is contributed by the upper part of the arm, not the lower part of the arm.
따라서, 팔에 의해 생기는 저항의 대부분은, 아래쪽(손쪽)이 아니라, 위쪽 부분에 의해서 생성됩니다.
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So how does that affect our pull?
이 사실이 우리가 당기기하는 방식과 무슨 관련이 있을까요?
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We'll consider the fact that when you're pulling deep,
깊게 당기는 경우를 검토해 보면,
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this part of the arm goes off alignment, off axis almost instantly.
팔의 이부분이 정렬선에서 벗어나서, 거의 즉시 축에서 벗어나게 됩니다.
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As soon as any part of our body sticks out, or goes off axis,
우리 몸의 어떤 부분이라도 삐져나오는 순간, 즉 축에서 벗어나는 순간,
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the drag force will go go up tremendously.
저항력은 엄청나게 증가합니다.
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If we, in contrast to that, to the high elbow,
이와 반대로, 하이엘보우 기술을 쓸 경우,
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we keep the upper arm, in almost in the line of motion, as long as possible
팔의 위쪽 부분을, 가능한 오랫동안, 거의 일직선 상에서 움직인다면,
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until we're forced to have to pull it back and get it out of the water,
더 이상 버틸 수 없어서 뒤로 당겨 출수할 수 밖에 없을 때까지,
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the net effect of that is, we say, in a better drag position here, than we do when we come deep.
그 효과들을 다 합치면, 이렇게 당기는 것이, 깊이 당길 때보다, 저항력에 대하여 보다 좋은 위치에 있다고 말합니다.
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The other reason that the drag is greater, when we pull deep,
깊이 당길 때, 저항력이 커지는 또 다른 이유는,
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is that a straight arm actually creates more drag than a bent arm.
쭉 뻗은 팔이 굽어진 팔보다 더 많은 저항을 일으키기 때문입니다.
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Same shape(X), same size, different shape, different drag coefficient.
같은 크기지만, 모양이 달라지므로, 저항 계수가 달라집니다.
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So the question is, do I want more power? or do I want less drag?
이제 문제는, 더 큰 힘을 낼 것인가? 아니면, 저항을 줄일것인가? 입니다.
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Well, in the world of swimming, drag trumps power.
글쎄요. 수영계에서는, 저항력이 힘을 이기고 있습니다.
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So it's actually better for you to swim with less frontal drag, in this high elbow position, giving up some power
그래서 저항력이 적은 방법으로 수영하는 것이 더 낫습니다. 힘은 좀 포기하고, 이렇게 하이엘보우 방법으로 하는 것이
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than it is to pull straight down, and have more power with greater drag.
쭉 뻗어서 깊이 당겨, 힘은 더 내지만, 저항이 훨씬 더 커지는 것보다.
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You not only will swim faster in this position, but you won't tire fast.
이렇게 하면, 수영이 빨라질 뿐 아니라, 빨리 지치지도 않게 됩니다.
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And that's why you see great swimmers swimming with a high elbow.
이것이 잘난 수영선수들이 하이엘보우로 수영하는 이유입니다.
Sang相상 Hwa和화 Lee李이 Thanks Lee we have uploaded your file and will continue uploading them if you want to send them to us.
+Lee李이, Sang相상 Hwa和화 Thank you for your effort to make the caption. 자막 만들어주셔서 감사^^
what is this, physics class?
Yes, absolutely!
State of the art swimming is based on fluid dynamics.
Mr. Hall does a good job of explaining why the high elbow is superior.
buddychump Thank you!
I wish all swimming lessons started from physics... If you don't know what's behind - what is this, religion?
Well, I did, and they don't require it. Seems as if it's just Scottish Swimming, and even then, maybe only some tutors. Which asks a whole load of new questions... But British Swimming seem clued up.
really helpful I got a lot faster
Actually that's unfair, apparently they don't, it's just the majority of courses I've been on with Scottish Swimming. They blame British Swimming, which says a lot....
It's Sang Hwa Lee.
I sent Korean & English caption files of this video clip.
Please, check your e-mail. Amy.
too technical for me
gary is certainly wrong about not ironing his t shirt before shooting the video
Sorry about that. I will be more careful in the future.
@@theraceclub dont dare to repeat it! hahahaha
this guy is a former marine? look crease on his shirt
could have taken it straight out of those bags
Terry Laughlin has NOTHING on Gary, You're a swimming god, sir!
As swimmers get faster, drag forces become even more consequential. It is for this reason that technique for advanced swimmers is even more important. Maximizing power is not the goal...maximizing speed is. That requires a compromise of maximum power toward less drag position.
ha, just discovered theraceclub, and it's the awesomest channel on youtube. goswim just wasn't helpful for me.
Gary, what is the difference between "Shoulder Driven" and "Body Driven" freestyle? Thanks!
Body Driven freestyle, as originally described by coach Mike Bottom, is really shoulder driven freestyle with a straight arm recovery, in my opinion.
the best swim video I have seen so far!
I extend just a bit less than max so I have a SLIGHT move (in tempo it would have been the now removed S) ahead, then almost immediately pull back with the hand that turns 90° INWARDS rather than DOWNWARDS.
So imagine right hand enters water 45° down, EXTENDS further ahead, then turns a 90° angle inwards (left) and pulls more or less as much as it would in frogstyle (almost full angle with elbow point) before PUSHING down to the hip (as far as, actually).
I know it's hard but am trying. :)
My hand enters water as far ahead as possible (arm almost completely extended) and the pull phase begins when the hand is beneath the water line for the same height of the hand itself (from mid-finger to wrist, that lenght I mean I go "down" as little as I can, this is what I mean).
I can actually feel the water pull by the base of my neck so the hand is inwards not downwards. The elbow couldn't possibly be higher than that... it would go OUT of the water.
I just had to adapt bc of my injury.
shoulder has 3 degrees free angles of mobility, looking the body staying vertical, we can imagine 3 plans: HORIZONTAL (TRANSVERSAL) on which the humerus makes inner adduction - lateral abduction, neutral 0 degree is with hand in front: on this plan I reffer for +30/+45 lateral; Second plan is SAGITAL (looking lateral the body, like split the body in 2 simmetrical parts), where humerus makes flexion (upward move) and extension (downward move), on this plan the maximal force is on 90 degree
maintaining the forearm all way in that angulation until the arm exits the water or the recover fase, hence the need to maintain an high elbow position. Obviously the area surface presented by the forearm plus the hand on the plane perpendicular to the displacement axis is inferior to the whole arm, but it is more efficient when you verify that the whole arm has only a maximum efficiency when you have it stretched in front on your chest (coincident with perpendicular plane of displacement)
Gary Hall congratulation for concens in physics, hydrodynamic and biomechanics to explain the efficiency in swimming ! If you allows me, I may complete the theory of superior efficiency of flexed-high elbow: 1. more power in flexed arm than straight arm for push back water (leverage III principle- try push down at lat-pull-down fitness equipment straight versus flexed)
2. Propulsive compensation for lateral drag (high elbow) than non-propulsive (elevation) compensation for deep/ down stroke
Is it still coached/taught in the US? I'm guessing it is, but only by individuals, surely the coach education programs have moved on? Didn't even 'Doc' express doubts some time after the idea of S-Shaped pull was born.
How come we didn't see S-shaped once at the Olympics, but it makes kids better swimmers? Pffft....
and the 3rd plan is frontal plan (same plan looking on front / in face the human body) on which humerus makes lateral adduction (downward movement) - lateral abduction (downward movment) (involved lateral deltoid muscle). This is the proper terminology in biomechanic, physiology, kinethology
the "clock" it refers Gary is situated in sagital plan. (Looking lateral the swimmer), that's true: on 6 o'clock (perpendicular on longitudinal alignament) / 90 degrees is maximal force.
what if I am a very average (or below average) swimmer who takes 30-35secs for 25m? Is it better to have more power or less drag? I am not aiming to compete, just swimming for recreation
for me when i pull with a straight arm i do better when i do 50 or 100 meter than EVF pull but for 200 or 400 meter EVF is better for me.
you know why?
Wow, was this very minute thinking of checking this: just fired off e-mail to British Swimming. See if they can begin to change....
Hi all, just wondering, does anybody know of a website with good strategy for distance ex. mile, 1000 for a younger swimmer?
The old s-shaped pull is still required for British swimming's teacher and coach courses. Can someone send them the memo?
There are many reasons why you might not be progressing. Most of them are because of technical problems....some are from improper training or tapering. It would be hard to help you without seeing you and understanding what you are doing first. I hope you can come visit...or consider online coaching with us if you can't.
Trouble is, the critical part about the drag associated with "off axis" movement is not explained.
I am not exactly sure what you are describing...but you should be extending the hand as far as possible in air before entering the water and whether hip-driving (pushing the hand forward in front) or shoulder-driving (starting an immediate catch/pull) it sounds like you have your elbow in the right spot (near the surface). Just push the hand more or less straight back...no S pattern.
watching ten years later- helpful thanks ---I've been watching a lot of videos over the years and I've never heard about resistance/drag on the arm as you discussed.
Thanks for continuing to watch our videos for so many years. It means a lot to us and we're so happy they're helping!
I have worked on technique with swimmers from about 6 yrs on up. Typically, they are most attentive and adaptable to technical changes at ages 10 and up. I still think it is worth teaching the technique to young swimmers...but if you don't stay on them..they tend to go back to old bad habits. Yes...many Olympians still make mistakes in technique...even Phelps in the 200 fly mad a few mistakes that cost him.
The hand should drop directly below the elbow to initiate the catch. Do not sweep inward or outward with the hand. But keep the elbow high as the hand pushes backward.