This Parasitic Draw Will BLOW YOUR MIND! -Part 2 (97 F150)
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Fords never disappoint with their legendary parasitic draws, and this F150 is no exception!
Let's track down the ROOT CAUSE of the ghost positive voltage and make a 100% guaranteed recommendation for repair. This one definitely required some patience and logic.
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Ivan
4hrs of diagnose time. I say peanuts. The great thing is it is 4hrs of trustworthy and honest diagnose time. Great job Ivan.
4 hours of quality work is 10-15 of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Had a rodent chew up wires and had dealer quote me 5 hours repair time, I paid for diag. Took it a shop I usually deal with (they got bought out and I didn't know) they wound up charging me more because it took them double the hours to replace and blamed it on "electrical work" even though the diag was already done and parts were purchased. And they didn't connect the fuel tube properly and fuel leaked when we when to the station causing the evap line to crack that they blamed on us. I'll take someone who knows their stuff and is passionate about their work anyday.
I’d gladly pay 4 hrs.
@@paulsolovyovsky1702
@@paulsolovyovsky1702
Wow! my brain feels full, like my belly on thanksgiving. both parts topnotch stuff, my son is away at college with a parasitic draw right now. i need him to drive home so i can practice what i just learned!!!!
I've replaced many GM underhood fuse blocks for internal shorts/draws. A quick and dirty way to find if it's internal is to check the temperature using an IR gun or thermal camera. It's one of the main tools I use to find draws, anything that is drawing current is going to warmer be than it's surroundings.
IR camera can be useful. However in this case the fuse box itself would not have warmed up...it was just providing power to other loads :)
air b and b for mice under them..
yep, there would be heat being produced. you could also increase the load by applying a higher current test lamp (headlight bulb), then you'd have 12v nominal in and nearly 0v out with increased current and heating at the problem location.
In various fuse boxes over the years can be traced to an oil source with a electrical connector plug into it such as oil sending unit ,VVTI connector etc . The component leaks oil The wire becomes a conduit or pipe to feed the oil right to an electrical box ...need to find the leaking sending unit.
That was incredible work chasing that down. Can't say I've ever owned a vehicle that had a fusebox breakdown internally but with water intrusion, that oil residue and the fact it's not the original unit it's safe to assume that's happened previously. Great work 👌🏻
Also that was a 4x4 fuse box so perhaps it had some of those connections we saw on the wiring diagram that weren't on the orig. equipment fuse box.
For being such a pit-bull of an mechanic, you get my sub.
It's pretty epic that you made that diagnosis while filming the entire thing. Not easy. Thanks Ivan!
Hi Ivan,
I applaud your tenacity in finding these difficult to locate problems. Stay safe.
Internal fuse box issues … aye aye aye. Had one on an Express van once that would randomly power up the starter relay usually while driving. Yes it burned up a couple of starter drives before we found the issue. We disassembled under hood fuse panel … ended up being a metal shaving from the factory that was SHORTING POWER to the starter relay. That was 100% my most memorable diagnosis to date.
And I shall name this ... the "textbook" on parasitic draws. Nice job, Ivan.
Some of the 1997/1998 model F-150's had leaky windshields I believe from the factory. It seems as though I remember hearing that about those trucks when they came out back then. When they leak it would go into the GEM module and cause all kinds of issues.
Absolutely the case....encountered several of these. Weirdest one I saw was the "short" caused the blower motor to run at all times.
Short-to-power just doesn't roll out of the brain like short-to-ground. Although, I'm sure the issue has more to do with the frequency of short-to-ground problems encountered in the field vs. short-to-power.
Rather odd pulling on the wire transmitted enough force through the block connector to impact the function of the fuse box... But, it did in this situation. Fascinating!
Damn blinker fluid!
I love wiring. I can only handle so much chasing of gremlins though. You have diagnosing hard to find problems down Ivan. That’s why I love watching your channel.
My goodness. The depth at which your willing to complete the diagnosis is admirable. And not always in the best of conditions.
We need to see the inside of that box! 😉
They do need to fix the water intrusion problem, Ford's like to have water in the cabin!
Amazing work Ivan! I have seen this before with a washer fluid level sensor, capillary action caused water to travel from the sensor to the BCM causing a short. Love your videos and thought process when diagnosing electrical faults 👍⚡️🧑🔧🚗
Two minutes into the first video I was going for water between wires. This sure was a weird one. Ivan's got the skillz to pay the bills 👍👍💗
There is about 20000 of those 97 to 2000 f150s with close to a million kilometres on them but they read like 200km. How I know this is I worked for ford and knew of the lease trick before they put digital odometer in the fords
We had one guy that went through 4 sets of tires on his lease in 24 months. That started a massive investigation any way if you have a ford and have a random switch hooked to your fuse panel then you’ve stopped recording mileage.
Great video
that's the oldest trick in the book, get a replacement cluster (whole interior!) strip and store the factory interior with low mileage and use the interior from wrecked vehicle. before that and around then, you could still use a motor with timer to spin the speedo cable backwards subtracting mileage. no I've never done that, but sure learned about it and other ways to spot it by wear on door hinges, rubber suspension components and more.
they've obviously made it very hard to do now(without major electronics/programming hackery). nothing is fool proof, so keep that in mind.
@@throttlebottle5906 For fun, one day I took a speedometer that was hanging around the shop and I connected it to a drill motor. It did not subtract the miles quickly at all.
@@jeffryblackmon4846 exactly, a drill doesn't spin very fast, the downside was spinning the cable and unit backwards that fast could wear the gears or break them. the later models would either not let the odometer run backwards or keep counting forward! up until digital computerized. lol
what would the purpose of that be
Had part one on an endless loop all day.
Amazing troubleshooting skills. Mad respect for anyone with the ability and patience to do this type of work.
My brain hurts from just watching this. I was confused most of the time but hooked. I really want to learn automotive electrical, I just don't work on it everyday. Great job because I would have thrown in the towel along time ago.
Buy yourself a LoadPro and your brain won't hurt as much. Very simple to use.
Absolutely brilliant, I’ve been in the electrical industry for more than 40 Years, mostly chasing faults, and your systematic approach and off book use of the tools (a test light is a vastly under utilised tool), is fabulous.
Technicians like you are hard to find … good work dude
I am a electrician for 20+ years and have seen the same issue with electrical panels typicaly found in the home. Most notabe is GE thinline style although I have seen it with others, ones that are considerd top of the line. I believe it to be a conductive grease that is used to increase longevity of the breaker and its contact points. What I think happens is the contact points get hot (usualy from heavy loads) and melt the grease. One can see which circuit it is because all the breakers below are greazy.....Greazy Pig I call it It may slip your grasp if not carefull!!!!!! Good troubleshooting skills!!!!
yeah, most residential breakers had/have some dielectric grease applied to the connector, I recall some of the busses having a small amount from factory also, but it was mostly what was pre-applied on the breakers.
what I love is when you see rust stains on the breakers, because you know your in for a show of bad breakers, corrosion and rust from water ingress via the service entrance/feeder.
I repaired a current draw issue in a similar vintage F150 a few years back, I was pretty sure you were fighting a water damaged fuse box right from the beginning of the first video. Leaking windshield had caused water intrusion into the box. When I removed the box to look at the connectors, water actually ran out of it, confirming my suspicions. New box from Ford was $300-400,but only lasted a bit over a year because the customer did not get their leaking windshield repaired. I had to put another new box in it, but refused to do the work until after the leak was fixed.
Mars Rover had a soft short to power in 2013 and they diagnosed it from earth and shut off that feature. It took them a week to narrow it down.
I have repaired ford fuse box, it requires complete disassembly using a de soldering tool, these boxes also have the fuel pump relay soldered to the board which goes bad
wow
Sorry , not understanding why pulling on the wire in the harness to stop the short to power correlates to a bad fuse box unless you are actually moving the connector pins when you are pulling on the wire.
Stressing the pin must have tweaked something inside the fuse box 👍
Typical of that model truck. Mine had the same problem. Leaking windshield was the culprit.
Could definitely tell, and rightfully so, some frustration in your voice near the end. I salute your determination.
Enjoyed the video, thanks for posting! I hope the owner understood the effort it took to fix his truck.
Great fault finding. Where many mechanics would throw up their hands and consign it to the "too hard bin" you persisted and fixed the problem.
Ivan great find. Tip: Oil does not conduct electricity unless contaminated with water/salts/metal/corrosion. My theory is that they replaced the fuse box before but did not fix the cause correctly. Thus, the fuse box failed again, and someone sprayed oil to prevent corrosion AFTER the corrosion had occurred. Always TEST your repairs, otherwise you might be doing it again!
Great work.Thanks for teaching how a good diagnostics should be done!
Top notch job.
It would be interesting to get a problem vehicle like this and let several RUclips creators each take a crack at it and video their process to see the different methods or ways of attacking the same problem.
incredible! you are the Holmes of electrical analysis. deduction rules all!!!
Excellent troubleshooting and diagnostics! Sometimes it's frustrating going down a rabbit hole and yet very rewarding when you find the problem. Usually an easy fixin the end, but extremely difficult to find. 👏
Nice fix. So now time to refurb the old box to find the cause LOL
Stabilant R22 liquid increases conductivity on pins etc.
Used in aircraft avionics etc.
Napa sells it a tiny bottle is $70+
May help you Ivan.
I fixed marine and industrial cranes manlifts trucks excavators and have used it on ecm and other sensitive sensor connections.
Tzastrovia Comrade
Ivan tackles some of the most complex job's Im glad he has the patients for his customers they are very fortinate to have him to solve their problems,
Very few are smart and determined enough to track this one down. Would have been nice to know the fuse box had been replaced with a junkyard part in addition to being doused with mystery fluid, for crying out loud. Another really impressive diag.
very nice now that is a crazy draw awesome job
I hope you kept the old box to take it apart in your shop.. I love it when you dissect the non-serviceable parts.
what an Odyssey ! When I was working repairing machine tools I was always put on these difficult to solve problems. A Meter, schematic and tenacity will win out. Understanding what you are looking at is essential. The older "Automatic" machines where the most difficult as the relays and switches make the machine logic and when contacts in the switches and relays fail it can cause crazy (dangerous) malfunctions, Though the PLC based ones could be more difficult if you don't have access to the logic
Chrystler tipm's have had problems for years. Others too. Seems like all manufacturers are having same issues. They are in the designing room, have some drugs, take a few big hits, then come up with an idea. One of these ideas after a few big hits is let's put all the wiring, fuses and relays in either hot or wet areas in a box with no protection. Nothing bad can ever happen with this idea. Takes another few more hits, then here's the next idea...
Time for a windshield reseal and hope that is the water concern. Maybe it could use a new windshield and a glass shop simply does a good job installing a new one. No point in damaging the replaced fuse box leaving the leak alone.
Wow, this is why you can never miss a single Ivan video. Simple problems require a Master class in diagnostics that makes it look simple (when Ivan does it). Another great diag, khoroshaya rabota.
Again.. one of those ghosts. Glad you have the patients to follow the trail. With any luck, I'll have my truck ready to bring up for a diagnostic in the next few weeks.
This was a common enough issue that Ford use to stock and sell the complete fuse box with fuses and all for about $50. I had a similar issue with an Expedition. After all the modules shut down the blower in the console would come on at low speed and run the battery down. Replaced the fuse box and it fixed it..
Winner Winner, but no chicken dinner. 😝
it's a ford thing. lol
another great vidio with great results Ivan do did it again you never give up
I Always return to the scene of the crime. I was screaming when you said the FUSEBOX was replaced, confirm it was correct for the vehicle. I personally have seen the issues when people try to save a buck and just grab a used fuse block. That 4wd Fuseblock I would just about guarantee is incorrect for a 2wd. But Very Nice thorough Diagnosis Ivan. Your Patience and persistence are admirable.
Great job chasing down the exact cause of the problem. Windshield leaking water caused by delamination will screw up the gem module/ fuse box, this problem started with 97 Ford trucks and SUV and went on for almost 10 years. Google search or better yet identifix might have helped the diagnosis. Vehicles with low options had less to go wrong, loaded with options loads of problems. If owner was lucky it was fixed under new car warranty many were not and had to pay as I did on my 97 f150, with only 7 thousand miles garage kept but past the 3 year mark. Same problem on my 99 F150, 2000 Expedition, 2002 Excursion, 2006 F250 Super Duty. Usually have multiple problems, power windows, power lock, electronic four-wheel drive you check for windshield leaking water then you know what's going on.
Great troubleshooting skills and knowledge. I acknowledge your determination to find the root cause. Your motto is never to give up until you find the root cause. I know sometimes dead ends are hit. You are an outstanding Electric/Electronic Technician ET.
🥇medal in the post for that one! Wow. Certainly one of the most trying ones I’ve ever seen on your channel!
Man Ivan what a bear to wrestle with. Confirmed fix though is worth it. Well done.
Yup. Known issue.
My 97 ford f150 4.2, 4x4 same issue. GEM module behind that fuse box took on water, by leaving the window open just a crack... and with pop up rain showers here in Florida, they can come spontaneously. So Water intrusion had me chasing a p-draw for 2 years. I was pulling the #15 5a fuse when parking at night to stop the draw, but it was actually crusties in the GEM. Fantastic video.
Yep, that blows my mind. I never suspected that, Ivan. How frustrating. Great catch!
Great job Ivan!!👍😎
That was really odd and a lot of work! Too bad the fuse box couldn't be opened - it should be interesting to see if it was crusty inside (did someone "solve" water intrusion problems by blindly spraying some kind of oil?). As always, great diagnostic, Ivan!
Dodge and Chrysler with the TIMP fuse box. Can't get the relays out. It's soldier on to the board.
@@cd9225 Yep, but I just wished we could see if it was crusty (or something else) inside, not really meaning to repair it.
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT oh I see.
@@cd9225 🙂
Very hard job 👏
Hi Ivan just gone through a similar case here in Stirling, Scotland. Citreon Relay van with the Puma diesel engine, loss of power leading to cutting out and hard restart. Initial checks showed good fuel pressure and plenty of fault codes well it is French. I then noticed that sometimes you could switch off and remove the key with the engine still running!!!, sometimes a strange clicking from a relay (glowplugs) with engine off (this had also caused a dead battery). Removed and stripped fusebox yes green gunge, box replaced now all is well.
Such a mesmerizing case study! Great work Ivan!!
It was an endurance race 😅
Absolutely brilliant work. You said really not happy you should be thrilled. Great video.
This is why it became so important to have relevant car history to the VIN number of the vehicle. Anytime a vehicle has flood damage, that history needs to stick with a vehicle till it is recycled or scrapped.
The water intrusion could just be the battery went dead on a sunny day and they weren't able to roll the window up when it rained later. It doesn't neccesarily mean flood damage. The oil seemed more interesting to me since there wasn't a bunch of green crusties.
I wonder if the fuse box was replaced with one from a junked flood damaged vehicle and the oil was somebody trying to use WD40 to dry it out.
@@sumduma55 that is also very plausible. However, I will have to stick with my intuition on thos one. Just a hunch till more information come in.
I think the body control module is incorporated whit the fuse box and yes the get water if he get another box cover the top whit plastic .thanks Ivan
Wow you are awesome at what you do. I don`t know a lot about auto diagnostics so I will learn from your videos. Keep up the great videos
the trick with the current clamp to see witch side the draw is coming from was amazing. i have never thought about you could do that. i feel so dumb for cutting the wire to find the short. Thanks for the tip!
Interesting diag! It would be even more interesting to see the destructive analysis on that fuse box.
well done. as a mechanic it's good to show others how difficult car repairs can be.
It would have been nice to open up the fuse box to do a further investigation into what inside was causing the draw. I admire your patience and persistence.
I open a few like this and the problem is rust between bars .bars are stacked in between plastic layers that forms the body of the fuse box
This was fun the watch. Thank you. I learned a few things and watching you go through your thought process and diagnosis with such enthusiasm and excitement reminded me of myself. I used to do contract diagnostics for other shops and dealers. When they couldn’t figure something out they would sublet the diag to me. It looks like that’s what you are doing here. Cheers mate.
Ivan,
Great video and diagnosis - thank you!
Paul (in MA)
Dude I had a 03 GMC Yukon Denali that whooped my a$$. Took almost 3 weeks but we found the draw at 3 different places. Passenger side mirror, onstar module and radio amplifier.
That was a very enlightening case study Ivan. When you tugged on the wires behind the fuse box and the short to power broke, I thought for sure it was a bare wire that had shorted to another. Great detective work.
Great job for such a difficult problem!
Great work with the pokey pokey!
Wow, I didn't expect that one!
Talented diagnosis!
I admire the steadfastness of the diagnosis, I would have lost my mind trying to chase this draw. Camera work is very good, sound is also very good. I would like to know if the fact the replacement fuse box from a 4x4 had anything to do with the problems.
That oily liquid on the fuse box could be brake fluid or clutch fluid, that's where the master cylinders are roughly located.
wow
Great job Ivan. Enjoyed watching this. Thanks 🙏
That was a crazy one! Well done!
Long video but really fun to watch ... Thank you .
Lots of problems with the gem modules getting water in them from windshield leaks. Get it dried out and shoved a plastic bag up there to cross your fingers. Can't get new ones any more. All the 97-03 ford's have that problem usually wipers start not working intermittently
Great work , I was able to follow the the thought process and learn .
Ever wake up wanting to take a break from diagnostic work, and doing something simple and relaxing like Quantum Mechanics, and answering the messy questions that others working in that area sidestep?
Just for future reference; oil is not conductive. It will not cause leakage paths. That series body has a pattern failure of the windshield leaking into the fuse box. Often the GEM is OK, it is separable from the fusebox. The corrosion sets up in the copper layers of the fusebox.
Amazing work!
That junkyard fuse box was probably laying on a shelf at the junkyard. Oil spilled on top of it and flowed into it before it was installed into this vehicle. It just took awhile because of the angle of installation for the oil to start flowing back out and causing problems..
Great diagnosis. It's interesting to see how you don't get frustrated but keep moving forward.
Great job, Ivan!!!!! That was certainly a tough one. I'm sure that not knowing exactly what was in the fuse box was hard to accept, but sometimes the designers/builders of stuff like that close every avenue. The customer will be satisfied, since they don't get into the details.
Got it well done .
I had something very similar a number of years ago on a mk2 VW Scirocco which I traced to a faulty water level sensor in the coolant expansion bottle.
I probably like watching your vids as much as anyone's because it helps me attack problems from a lot of different angles. Thanks for always sharing
I had a good guess! 4 hours! But these are the ones that you learn from.
I own a 97 ford, it's rat's nest right out of the factory. You have my sympathy. I've spent many hours in that exact location. Last time I did not replace the screw behind the light switch. I know I'll be back in there for something.
Now would be a good time to fix water intrusion problem or else it’ll just do it again
You have the tenacity of a bulldog, Ivan. Good work.
No way a dealership will figure this one out. The dealership will probably say replace the complete wire harness. Good job on the Diag.
Yes, replace this, replace that, a dealer would use a parts cannon on this truck.