How to Prevent Cymbal Bleed | FAQ Friday - Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- ➡️➡️Questions covered in todays FAQ Friday:
• Where would be the best position to place a microphone for recording a solo Violin or a solo Cello when using an SM57? I’m Interested in knowing what the better microphones are to record them as well. (1:09)
• What would you do differently when micing an amp with the player sitting in the room and the player sitting outside of the room? (5:19)
• Have you ever done multi-velocity samples of your own studio drum kit? If so, are they available to purchase? (7:04)
• Looking forward to demoing your upcoming drum kit, Warren. Will this sample be a sample pack or a plugin itself? (8:01)
• When I record my drums I get a lot of cymbal bleed. What am I doing wrong? (8:29)
• If one is using just a VST drum kit based on samples, is there a way to bus it to a track and have that track imitate the overheads some way? (14:02)
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Pssshhhh pssshhhhh psssshhhhh pssshhhhhh psssshhhhhh. How about a sample pack of every impression Warren does of an instrument or player. That would be the best thing ever haha.
That could be his next big giveaway!
Emerger Fly Fishing hahaha do it my friend!! I’ll back it!!
ZerroHouseProd haha yes!!
I really want to hear a complete acapella version of the intro now. :-)
Lasse Huhtala hahaha it might be coming!
I'd second accent micing cellos or violins. I've noticed that the best players tend to really sway and move with the performance if they are not used to studio recording. Pulling the microphone away a bit lets them breathe and the changes in distance and direction are not so apparent in the final recording. If you place the microphone too close, sometimes they feel locked in place, which can make a player tense up a bit, if they don't move when the perform, you can get close and try some really thick and full recordings though - Just my 2 pence! Thanks for the great video Warren :)
In The Mix thanks ever so much! Yes, agreed! Let the instrument breath and also it helps with a musician who moves during performance
...and to add to that, you will get more of the bow digging in to the strings (just did a small chamber arrangement) if you are too close. Breathing room is key because certain musical passages lend themselves to different bowing techniques.
If miking up close is necessary (e.g. because of very poor room acoustics), placing a microphone in front of the headstock and aiming down the body works pretty well, it seems to contain the usual harshness of a close-miked violin. If someone has to do it very close, I recommend seeing if that technique works for them ;) I used that before we treated our room and we were quite happy with the results. It restricts the movement quite a bit though, unfortunately. Since then we stuck to miking one meter above the strings and we most likely won't change that. Works like a charm!
Expressing to the musician what you'd like to hear more of is an excellent tip! It shows them that they can trust you for an honest and positive opinion, and encourages them to bring out of themselves an even better performance. It worked for Phil Ramone, it worked for me, and I'm sure many others!
Glyn Johns technique is a good method for starting out getting a good drum sound.I learnt a lot. A video on this Warren would be good :) Keep up the videos mate
I started with that and customized a bit and so now i have the sound i want
Hey Warren, This is one of my favorite topics, but not the bleed into the drum mics, rather dealing with it in the vocal mics. Love the Mixing Live Recordings video you did on Only Women Bleed. That was a huge stage, so although there was cymbal bleed in her vox mic, it was no where near as bad as what I get from bar, club, and small festival recording where the vocalists are right in front of the drum set (usually mine:-) Would love to see more tips and tricks on this, either here on you tube or inside the academy. The best thing I find to do, (tip from you!), is to clip gain down -12 to -18db when the vocals are not singing and to make sure in/out fades are natural sounding. I tried to automate that task with Vocal Rider, but not much luck yet....
Thanks, you ROCK!
I love the quality of the video keep up the great work! and thank you for your content
Hi Esteban Chamorro thanks ever so much my friend!
Hi Warren, great tips, thanks for all your help, cant wait to see more about your drum kit, thanks again, all the best, Darren Ross.
My go to plug-in to mitigate cymbal bleed, in the mix, is the AE600 (McDSP) it's great at clearing up a washed out snare.
Thanks again for all your work Warren & congrats on your recent award.
For solo violin, my first choice is an active ribbon and the second is a small-diaphragm condenser.
My violin sounds best with the AEA R84A and my wife's violin sounds best with Royer R-122. My viola sounds best with the AEA N8. All of these are expensive but well worth it. Overhead "accenting" technique seems to work the best. Maybe the Royer "dBooster" with a Beyerdynamic m160 would work and be less expensive.
Also, I've used the Miktek C5 small-diaphragm condenser with great results. The higher frequency "roll-off" of a ribbon real helps with the annoying bow noise from closer micing. Both violins were made in Italy in the 1700's.
Keeping the "dead end " of the mic in the right spot helps a good deal to prevent cymbal bleed over.
Hi Jason Simmons absolutely my friend!!
Such great points about drum sounds starting with the drummer and the performance! Another tangential but related point is about how important tuning drums is, in the abstract of just the basics of how to do it and in the specific case of tuning to get the best sound for the song and the room, many many drummers even very accomplished ones don't think very hard about HOW they sound behind the kit.
Warren’s own plug-in?? I don’t even have to think about it, instant buy! I already know I’m going to get quality. Can’t wait!
Hmmm drum samples and as a plugin could this be the Drumsnizzler plugin or the DrumSnizeler . Great video loads of info .
For the VST drum samples question, I've had good results using a sort of vintage re-amping technique. By slightly increasing the cymbal volume temporarily and placing dynamic mics close to the monitor speakers at a light volume; it can give a overhead type sound. Also, by placing condenser mics much further away from the monitors (near the back of the room) - on a relatively full mix, it can provide a kind of natural room reverberation. All that's left to do is just blend the re-recorded sound back into the mix until it has a bit more ambience.
Love your videos Warren! They've helped me improve my recording and mixing techniques so much man. Keep doing good work!!
Looking forward to 'Warren's Marvelous Drums'
Just the question I need answered!! Thank you!
Cameron Fleury haha yes! So glad to be able to help my friend!
@@Producelikeapro you're the man Warren!
Once again there is a ton of pertinent info here for guys and girls to improve their recording skills. Thank you so much for taking the time to share.
When I recorded violin for one of my songs last year, I used a ribbon mic (Avantone Pro CR-14) and did the accent micing technique. That ribbon mic really smoothed off the harsh overtones you can get from a violin and I think it turned out very nice. Not everyone has a ribbon mic laying about of course, but if you do have one I suggest giving that a try!
Ribbon mic is perfect for violin, trumpet, .. anything that has a bit of an edge that you want to smooth. I use an old Crowley & Tripp 'Naked Eye' ribbon, which is magic on those sources.
A LRM-2 is cheap enough to have lying around and a great microphone 😁
@@GenreBGoode Interesting.. LRM-2 looks so much like so many other Chinese ribbon mic models that have come out in the last decade or more. I had a 'blue' one years ago, can't remember the brand on it. Cheap, worked well, but very limited top end response. Ones that look exactly the same body: Golden Age, SE, Nady, Apex, etc. Makes me think they all come from the same factory! The reason I eventually bought the Crowley & Tripp one (now rebranded by Shure) is it has a fairly extended high end response for a passive ribbon mic. They're aren't cheap though... I bought mine at the right time!
@@twtobin941 the manufacturing may be Chinese but the final assembly and QA is done in Belgium
Thanks Warren!
Another great FAQ Friday Warren! Thanks as always for some great tips and insights. Can't wait for the Drum Kit Samples /Plugin! That'll be fantastic! :-)
Hi Warren I tested the sound of violin distance 50cm with Prodipe STC 3D this is exellent ! .
AKG 451b for the win! Affordable (compared to Neumanns), and versatile: acoustic guitar, hihats, violin, cello, etc.
Thank you, Warren for another amazing FAQ Friday video. I hope you're having marvelous weekend :-)
The drum plugin should either be called "Schnizzle Drums" or "Schnizzlehammer"
CrimSun haha I’ve got a hit from the Schnizzle Hammer!
any word on this sample pack?
Always love watching your FAQ videos. Really love the emphasis on the player's performance when recording.
Unrelated to any of the questions in the video, but something I've been pondering after watching a fascinating video recently: Do you think that the lower track count - i.e. 8- or 4-track - or even mono tracking has any place in today's world, where you can find sessions upwards of 50 tracks not including effect and sum busses?
Just my two cents:
- A solo violin in a live situation: definitely a contact mic. Stick it on the back of the violin on the treble side and plug it in a passive Radial DI. It probably is the best sound you will get. The same in the studio. However, instead of a DI, I would use a Focusrite ISA pre-amp where you can change the impedance. I would also add a ribbon mic. I know this probably is far above your budget, but only an SM57… I don’t know, just play around, and try to find the sweet spot, I guess…
- Cymbal bleed; I would mic the drumkit as I normally do. However, I would add mics on the bottom of the tom-toms and use shotgun mics as close as possible on every cymbal. Be sure you record multiple one-shots from every part of the drumkit after the recording session (You should always do that, by the way). Add these as samples in the mix to fake the drumkit and all its glorie. If it is a whole album that you need to do that way… Well, that is tough, but if you want to get the job done then that is what you are going to do for the next couple of days. The rooms; that is indeed the biggest problem. Again try ribbon mics, faced to the studio walls and 10 or 20cm above the studio floor. If you can, set up the drumkit on a +/- 20cm drum riser, that can do miracles. Good luck!
- Is there also a library coming from your "Piano of Hell"? : )
Hi Kevin thanks ever so much for your amazing insight!! I really appreciate it
I appreciate it that you appreciate it. I thank you!
If you're provided with a master (L/R only) and the tracks have a good deal of clipping on them - what are some of the best techniques that you use to reduce or remove it (assuming you can't re-track it)?
Regarding cymbals bleeding... YES! Absolutely right, Warren! Every good drums teacher would tell you that... learn FIRST to use a solid backbeat, AND go gently on the cymbals. If you need more "huge" cymbals sound, you need to change cymbals, not hitting them harder ;-)
Hi Warren!
If you only had a large diaphragm condenser mic, a matched pair of small diaphragm condenser mics and a Sm57, how would you mic a drumkit? And which mic would be a great addition and where would you put it? Thank you very much!
I know I shouldn't, but I liked it right away before watching. And no PLAP video has ever disappointed me.
I'm quite excited hearing about that drum library. Maybe you could anwer me just one question? Will there be a set for Battery? I do have Kontakt as well, but when it comes to drum, I love Battery.
Hi Warren, when a person use drumagog, or Slate trigger and you sample your , lets say for example, your toms, then you can add the toms later back in the form of a sample...Debleeder, Gateywatey, Debleed are great plugins to remove cymbalbleed and playing dynamic will help a lot too: in rockmusic: kick & snare 100 % and cymbals 80 % , in terms of a scale...What I can remember from Simon Phillips is that he said that bleed is also part of a drumsound, phaserelationships are important... But I,m no expert, I just try to help out... Have a great weekend man!!
Thank you Warren, great questions and answers!
I have one small question regarding vocals. If you have a song where you want distorted vocals (just like Jack White often does), would you put the distorted sound on the headphone mix of the singer during tracking and record the clean track? I can imagine that a singer will perform differently if he/she hears the distorted sound that they want in that track instead of just clean vocals.
Thanks ever so much and have a great weekend.
i love this guy hes so funny!! ive been trying to handle symbol bleed and drumm bleed for a long time... before hes told us to use the bleed as a tool and that helped me immensely!!! im always learning around this gentleman...always!! ok Mr.Marvelous....i do have a question and its been awhile since im always forgetting in the moment..lol theres a drum mic system where the module rests on the kick, on the beater side and its supposed to cpture the whole kit in a very professional manner... idk... what do you think have you played with something like this? thanks warren!! STAY MARVELOUS, BROTHER!! and when are you going to do a metal song? just for funnzies! id relish being able to see how you approach a metal song... im headed to england hopefully in one month... where should i go? who should i see? whats good to eat? THANKS
your awesome my guy!! interview Glenn?
should i gate drums? and if so when should a gate apply?
A great performance is the best starting place so "encourage the artist" :) great advice
I'm not sure if this will ever reach a FAQ, but could you maybe make a video discussing speaker configuration? I used to have my monitors vertical (the prescribed way they should be), but recently I decided to try them horizontal with the tweeters pointed out. After researching, I've come to understand that the tweeters being father away from your ears in relation to the woofers can create phase issues in the mirage, as well as a false width effect, but I feel that because of the false width I've been able to more precisely pinpoint problematic areas in my mixes, and the phase issue doesn't seem to be that bad to me. I'm pretty firm believing that hearing a wider, false image is giving me a better understanding of my mixing process, and my mixes have gained quite a bit as a result. But I feel a little crazy. Do you have any opinions on this issue?
Loveeeee your videos! Thank you so much for all the hard work you put in to care for your subscribers.
The acapella intro made my day lol
Great information
Hi John Core thanks ever so much my friend!
whoa ...very excited about warren drum thingy...or whatever it is
On the opposite side of the "drum bleed" problem....
How do I get sampled/programmed drums to sound like a real kit played in a real room and not just like a sequenced bunch of samples? Is there a way to simulate that live bleed?
ZerroHouseProd marvellous question! I would definitely create a second drum bus that had some randomness on it! Delays, saturation and verb!
i would have never thought about creating a room like that... that is more than making a reverb cathedral plate aux/bus, this opens the door to make a complete realistic room! ive never thought about it like that... now would you double bus that to a delay/reverb and another reverb? im trying not sound like an idiot.lol. but ow you got me thinking and thats dangerous,warren. :]
Please that me know when that drum sample package is ready!
Hi Gary Craig definitely will my friend!!
FAQ question: i use eastwest hollywood strings thru an instrument track when recording strings. my question is do you always use stereo tracks when recording strings like eastwest? and what kind of panning is normal? i usually use, bass, cello, viola and violins. ive heard different things, i usually go stereo bass and cello i pan close to center, like 30L 30R and go wider with violins and violas anywhere from 60L 60R to 100-100
The best advice that I can give you, Mike is to go to a classical concert. Take a Shure MV88 stereo mic with you, plug it on your iPhone and record the video & audio of the concert. Odds are that they will kick you out of the venue if they see it, but hey, all you need is one song, right?
@@Kevin-vq6rv this doesn't really have anything to do with my question?
Well, if you did, you would notice that 1st and 2nd Vlins, Vlas, Celli, basses are panned from L to R. You would also hear where the woodwinds, brass & percussion, are positioned. Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure it out...
wonder what the thumbs down have against this. This is vital knowledge
Warren would high passing the tom mics work for helping reduce cymbal bleed ? I like to low pass my overheads and hat/ride mic and let the room mics pickup all frequency of the drums
can you please explain me how you using this large mixer behind you,i mean how can you press space to start the beat in daw,and then you can mix that beat from daw on your analog mixer,do you connect your computer to mixer or what?
Of course. Warren can hard patch his PT HD system I/O, 1 to 1 on the Console. For transport functions, he probably uses MMC automation or Midi Machine Control, which is a standard for ages now.
Oo, new camera? New lighting? Looks great.
Will Gaines new guy 😎
Any chance of a practical on how to do this? Ta.
"DS-ing" 🤷🏻♂️ thx!
Why or how does the guitar player playing the guitar in the same room as the amp add sustain? Is it feedback? We always record my bandmate playing in the same room as the amp because we basically have no other option.
Record cymbals with piezo's! Can't get any closer then that ! If it's too loud , stick it on the stand as close as possible....experiment with it.
Do a Lynda perry studio tour.
get Blair Sinta for your drum pakages, he is great at making drums tones
BTW, Do you know Michael White from MPG online courses, you could work together to create even a bigger service for audio-people I guess, just my food of thoughts man... You know: with a creative open mind you see solutions everywhere...Let others see problems then...;) I wish you a great weekend there!!
Chaos = non structured blend of ideas...Ready to be structured...;) Mmmm... I see a pattern here close to...Mixing..hahahaha
Warren will you please tell/ask my drummer to enhance his performance, I tried (ever so kind) a couple times and had cymbals, sticks, brushes and whatnot thrown at me.
Seriously? If I was in your band, I would kick him out of the band. The drummer leads the band. If he cannot count to four, so to speak, then the performance of the whole band suffers from that. Furthermore, every band has a weakest musician, that's not a problem at all. But if that person also is very ignorant and even aggressive to his fellow band members, well that's just unacceptable. Kick him out, today!
Kevin well... it’s not that he can’t count to four, he can, however the next meassure he’ll count to four in a different tempo 😂. He wasn’t physically agressive though, I was speaking metaphorically.
Regarding cymbal bleed and stuff, the (great) tips Warren gives in this video; I was hoping for some mindblowing new insight, but (un)fortunately I already applied these techniques (eg cymbal/tom spacing and dead point of mics towards the cymbal etc, even with this... the cymbals and hihat are well louder than the actual tom that the mic is micing. Which is both funny and sad as well as very frustrating and time consuming come mix time because i can’t really ride volumes or gate it since the actual tom hits are softer and i need those. And it sounds really weird when the volume drops all of a sudden, especially in the overall drumsound. It is a very interesting process for me and I am learning A LOT.
Oh ok, that makes things different. It's actually none of my business either. The only thing he can do is to practice his ass off with a metronome on a slow tempo. Playing a slow tempo is way harder than playing up-tempo. If he can do that, only then he should practice without a metronome. Needless to say that this is an individual exercise and not a band rehearsal.
As far as the cymbal bleed goes; Playing balanced is also a matter of practicing of course, but if you're in the studio, there is no (t much) time to fool around. I should have tried to "kill" the cymbals with moon gels or perhaps switch the cymbals with Roland cymbal pads. You can trigger a cymbal sample with the pads so that the drummer and the other band members still hear cymbals during tracking. After tracking is done, I would set up the real cymbals instead of the pads. It's pretty easy for a drummer to overdub only the cymbals.
I understand that the recording session is finished. Try to make the best of it, but let it be a lesson for the next time you go to a studio, probably with another band.
Good luck and have fun!
Kevin thanks so much man. Really appreciate the conversation. It’s my first time in youtube comments world. Some good and useful tips you gave me! Cheers.
Indeed there is no time to fool around or practice in a studio. I kinda saw it coming so I tracked the band to a click and drum machine and then had the drummer track when we were happy with the music. Even then it took a day for each song to get something useful.
As I said, I learned a lot, one of the things is: next time I find out someone doesn’t know or hasn’t practiced their part, or worse, doesn’t even know what to play on their own songs, I send them home to practice and stop wasting precious (studio/ and or my) time.
Pieter, I don’t know why but I am going to tell you something that my mentor once said to me: Nobody becomes successful overnight. Every person goes through his share of difficulties before things go according to the way he has planned. You might see successes of others but you have not seen the kind of hardship they have gone through. Failure is the stepping stone to success and it must be experienced before you can experience long-lasting success. This isn’t a failed project though. See it like you have found 10 ways that just don’t work. You are Dutch, isn't it? So am I... : )
10:30 pishipshi
👍
Isn't it more like: doo de de de de - de de waka waka....?
TOP ! 👍👍👍👌🎥 🎸 🎼🎶🎶🎶 🎤 💋
Bony M thanks ever so much my friend!!
lol, seems like every time i watch a video you have different speakers!
Schnizzle count this week. Only one. Very disappointed Warren.
Thanks Warren!