Food for thought, the 1st round is held in place by 3 blocks of jel. next shot had only 2 blocks, the reason the 1st shot pushed farther in was due to the extra mass that held it in place good test but You have to consider all elements And take in consideration the extra weight Held the ballistic Jel in place to allow the bullet to travel farther. Just one old Soldier's analogy of your test. Thank you for all you guys do.
I compare it to a bow. You can shoot clean thru a whitetail deer with a good shot. But, take the same bow, same arrow, and same Broadhead and it'll *almost* never pass all the way thru a smaller animal, like a squirrel. The deer is much heavier and has alot more mass, the arrow is able to drive it's way thru as the deer provides much less deflection. The squirrel is so light, it provides too much deflection and the arrow get stuck in the animal, as it just ends up carrying the squirrel with it. Just a theory 🤷🏻♂️
@LarryAhee, I had the exact same thought. It may not have made a difference to have the 3rd block there, but by not having it, it brings up the question because they changed the test parameters.
Exactly. The blocks were able to, and did, move more to absorb the energy. Change testing parameters, and the test results become irrelevant. Would the results have been different with a 3rd block? Who knows.... An apples to oranges comparison nets zero results that are considered relevant.
I agree with what has been said about the second test and no 3rd block. Another thing that was not bought up in the video was the amount of "springback" of the bullet in the first test. When you watch the slo-mo you can see the momentum of the bullet is being pushed back as the gelatain is settling down.
Last year because of the extreme shortage of bullets available we used the 140g ELDM for our deer hunt. We took 3 deer ranging from 125 to 440 meters. All three were heart shots all were terminal two of the deer dropped on the spot the other one, a whitetail buck went about 5 yards and fell. I would again without hesitation use the Match bullets. Confidence in your shot and bullet placement will do the job.
Agree 100%. Last year my wife shot her Muledeer 4 point buck beaded at about 165 yards with a ELDM 140 grain bullet and the buck expired in his bed. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for hunting from our experience.
I used 140 eldm for many years in my 6.5. Now I’m using Berger 140 elite hunter bullets. Both kill instantly. I use Berger hunting bullets full time now.
Gunwerks did an incredible amount of testing on a lot of 6.5 bullets when they entered the 6.5 creedmoor game. They hunted all over the world with many different bullets on all kinds of animals, and they eventually settled on the 140 ELDM as their go to bullet. I’ve seen a lot of animals taken with the 140 ELDM and the 143 ELDX and they both performed VERY well. I was interested in the findings of this video, but had already decided there really isn’t much practical difference in terminal performance. Good video.
I got a lot of crap from older guy about hunting with match ammo. We had 2 deer dropped this year with match bullets. Chose the match ammo because my gun and her gun was more accurate, 1/2-3/4 groups at 100 meters. Repeatedly.
Would be an interesting test (maybe more interesting) to to these again at around 1800fps velocity or 900ft-lbs. This is most bullet manufacturers min speed/energy for hunting. Match bullets are very common for long range hunting in many parts of the world due to the thinner jackets. The current test is at max velocity, which may not be a true reflection of real-life hunting.
Load these 2 again with a reduced load. Running around 1700 to 1800 fps. That would really be an interesting test! Not that this one isn't, because it is excellent. I just imagine most also want to see these at thier lower, "long range" performance. Great job! Keep'em coming!
@@AP-cm3kb Thanks partner. The 140 gr ELDM @2835 was impressive @1060 yards. I had just shot a great group at 1000 yards as my buddy and I were beginning to pack up for the evening. Still set for 1000 yards a varmint stepped out just beyond. My buddy ranged it at 1060 yards. I made the adjustment, eased the trigger and one varmint down. One thing here is conditions were near perfect. One thing I will do if ever I was to do it again is picture's. Being older I just forget sometimes these phones do so many things. That 147gr ELDM runs around 2800 + for me and I can't see not using it for longer shots. I'm also running the 130 Gamechanger at 3038 fps. I will use it for closer shots. That 140 ELDM has 357 mag, at the muzzle velocity and ft-lb energy at 1000 yards. Those who argue ability of the cartridge but think a pistol cartridge like the 357 mag at the muzzle or within 50 yards is capable for deer hunting need to look at those energies. Given you have practiced at those ranges, know your dope, rifle and your capabilities. Would I take that shot again? Maybe, if conditions were right and I anticipate the target is going to be stationary for enough time. A good place to see low velocity bullet testing is SimpleMindedFellow here on RUclips. He tests reduced loads in gel. Very impressive testing with some surprising outcomes. Go to his playlist and check out his 6.5cm bullet testing (Hornady ELDM & Nosler ABLR). The velocities with decent performance, (if going by gel alone) are suprising.
You could make a whole channel on testing bullets like this. You did test a LR -V- Match bullet at close range. For hunting test the SST. Would like to see the Hunting bullets tested at 100 yards at realistic impact velocities as this is also the distance for accuracy testing ....PLEASE keep making these test videos.
Now that we are seeing the rapid expansion of the ELDM, we need to see how it compares to an expansion bullet like the SST. So yeah, we need a series from UR.
It’s not rocket surgery though honestly. Shot placement and actual caliber are so much more important. Why be picky about bullets in every scenario under the sun.
I'd hunt with an ELD-M for sure. These results look pretty good. The temporary wound channel was pretty close if not identical. The permanent would channel does look slightly larger with the ELD-X, but I'm sure the deer will look the same in my freezer with either of these bullets.
Until you hit a rib or pull to a shoulder at closer ranges. Better be ready to reload quick or track for miles. Been there multiple times with other hunters and my Wife swearing by the match. When it works out at 600-700 yards great when it doesn't at 200-300 its a crappy day sometimes into the night.
@@cole4406 the host of the show… yes deer run sometimes. Back to that old saying. Shot placement is far more important than anything else… bullet or caliber.
@@pcjpcj4070 that’s the age old problem huh. Europe likes the Grenade types like vld. Here we want 40” of penetration cause what if. But if you just knew what you were shooting with what it sorta all has it’s plus and minus deals. Lot of long range hunters use smk’s go figure. I say if your not going to shoot a real caliber make sure you shoot it well. Like if you can’t tie a knot tie a lot kinda deal.
I'm not sure there's really a reason to hunt with a match bullet. Given the expense of any hunt, desire for a clean harvest etc - proper bullet selection is pretty important. Shoulders, especially do a real number on bullets. I've seen more than a few basically blow apart hitting a shoulder joint. The end results can really be upsetting on a number of levels. Does some desire to economize or a lack of time to sight in, learn your drop table etc really make up for any risk of this happening? A-Frame, TSX, TTSX, Partition, Oryx etc - they have a reputation for a reason.
@@StewartCountyBallistics Gave an real example on a rib bone that actually happen in the field. Guess some people are too dense to quantify bone is bone and match are soft and at high velocities they splatter on bone. As I stated, they are good at longer ranges where the velocities are lower and they can hold together, but you may not have been able to comprehend that far so you've probably already strained your mind after the first sentence and haven't made it this far again.
Small nitpick regarding the black marks inside the gel: it appears to me that they are scorch marks from the combustion of the trapped gasses instead of pulling in any blanket material. When you were doing the frame-by-frame side-by-side scrubbing, you can see clean gel before the flash, the flash in the next frame, and suddenly scorch marks in the frames after that.
1st question: yes I would and have hunted with 140 ELDM on deer in west Tennessee excellent results 2nd question harvest a deer use actual rib cage with hide in front of gel with high speed, also I agree there's infinite bullets to test I personally would like to see the same slow speed footage at say 185-225 yards ( easly an ethical hunting distance) to see what happens to the bullets when speed starts dropping. Absolutely love all the data points, great work guys! Stay safe and God bless
@@handcannon1388 I was thinking along the same lines. This test demonstrates the effects on soft tissue. What happens when the match bullet impacts bone? I think the match bullet would disintegrate while the hunting bullet would hold together better because of the thicker jacket. Also I noticed the match bullet ended up sideways in the gel while the hunting bullet did not. Does the match bullet have a greater tendency to tumble? Very interesting video. Given these bullets are very similar I agree with Gavin I would use the ELDX for hunting.
I would NOT have hunted with the ELD-M before this video, but now, no problem, especially at what I typically shoot game at under 300 yards. Great video, very informative
Do you shoot animals at 2700 fps? They botched the test. Don't fall for it until they slow the velocity down and/or extend the distance. He built a "1/4 rifle but he can't set the block 100 yards away to test it correctly? Not saying the ELD-M isn't up to snuff, but don't follow these test results just yet.
@@joshuahunt1210 ELD-M tends to expand better at lower velocities so is better at longer range, plus is still adequate(although not as good) at close range. Overall for whitetail I think match is better at least out of the .308 I use.
@@joshuahunt1210 You have it backwards, the match bullets will expand at lower velocities than the hunting bullets as they are softer. This is a big deal with modern high bc bullets as they will icepick and do very little damage at too low of a speed. The high SD means even a very soft bullet will get good penetration.
@PineyJustice Sorry, but I've tested matchkings at low velocity and they don't expand. I think I even posted a video with my findings. Albeit it was one if my first videos but my personal tests with the matchkings stop me from using them in any cartridge smaller than 30 cal. The ELD-M will likely be better than the Matchkings because the size of the hole at the point is wider (under the plastic). The A-Max bullets kill reliably but they're only available in 168gr .308 anymore. He still should have tested this bullet at lower velocity and further distance. I hear similar reports on the 308 ELD-M too. But smaller cartridges and I'd get worried.
@redtra236 ah there we go. Yes, I actually spoke with Nathan Foster of Ballistic Studies and he had good things to say about the 308 ELD-Ms too. I'd be worried about smaller cartilage though. Just trying to ensure reliable kills and humane harvests here!
I love how you "nerd out" on these tests and give us the specifics. This stuff does make a difference if a guy get a coveted tag like a bighorn or hot elk area.
Given that the ELDx are extremely hard to find I would consider using it for deer (mule, coues, eastern whitetail), but I wouldn’t use it for Elk. Awesome video!
Seems like a more realistic test would be to reduce the velocity to something realistic to a hunting impact velocity. Then keep reducing the velocity till you find the velocity where it doesn't reliably expand anymore.
@@jestes7 A lot of people make their own at home, and it's often not clear or the right density. If they spent a lot for this stuff, it was to get it clear and also to have the correct density, most likely the FBI standard for testing.
ive been dying to see this exact test, so much so that i was looking into getting ballistic gel myself, thank you for saving me the headache, looked like yall had way more fun than i would of
Just fascinating to watch terminal ballistics produced so professionally! MUCH THANKS for all the hard work gents! I continue to be a happy subscriber… Keep up the excellent work!!!
I recently switched away from them specifically because of their lack of penetration. Had a few broadside whitetail at close range that didn't have an exit wound. Still died, but not a blood trail to speak of. Probably would do better at a longer range/ slower velocity, but close range was having some bullet failures with I assume on bone impact(one thing ballistics gel will never represent.) Giving monolithics a try this year, first one poked through easily and had a very nice blood trail.
Better penetration throught what? I have shot Whitetails : complete pass through with the 140 M with enough devastation that I cant show the pictures ( blood & tissues ) but in your mind it may???? may??? what ever youll shoot, it will kill. dont shoot the Quads, keep your shots in vitals and stop worrying about the : may???? its scary… confidence in you and gear.
I tested the140 ELDM out of my 6.5-300 weatherby through a fresh whitetail shoulder that was strapped in front of 3 gel blocks at 100yds. The bullet performed great, it left a huge permanent wound cavity and was 81.2 grains after being recovered.
Definitely keep the same number of blocks on the table to assure block flex or movement is not impacting the results. Secondly, I think it would be great to do the same comparison between the ELD-X and the A-Tip. Including the GMX is fine if desired, but you must include the ELD-X as a “control” to be able to account for any environmental or gel differences. That’s the only way to keep the hunting vs. match bullets for hunting comparison valid. Ideally doing more than one round of each so that you have a larger sampling population would be more valid statistically, but the extra time, expense, etc. may make that prohibitive. I would also suggest impacting the gel at lower velocities to simulate farther distances but realize the extra cost and effort is huge. Still, that would closer answer the original question. Excellent testing procedure IMO so far, very informative, and even as a long term follower, Gavin you continue to impress me with what you do and how you do it. Amazing!
Ive taken 2 mule deer with a 130 nosler rdf in a 6.5 prc at 3050 fps. One at 800 yards and the other at 430. Both hydrostatic shock. Both bullets passed all the way through.
Very interesting! I have a friend who says that match bullets work well for hunting whitetail deer… I was skeptical… but no longer! I will stick with my 143 ELDX but wouldn’t hesitate to use the 140 ELDM! I would be very interested to see the 6.5 Grendel tested with 123 ELDM VS. 123 SST
@@cadetbooth, Where are you finding anything referring to it simulating bones as well? Every manufacturer I can find only refers to it simulating tissue specifically and makes no mention of bones.
Thank you so much for doing this experiment. I purchased 4 boxes of 140 grain ELDM last year with the intent to hunt whitetail with them but, I received a lot of criticism for it. I am now comfortable and confident with them and I will be using them.
I conducted an almost identical test a few years ago with nearly identical results. What I found was that the eld would come apart slightly more at high velocity due to the thinner jacket and lack of an internal cannelure to lock the core and jacket together, while also requiring about 200 fps more velocity to initiate expansion vs the eldx due to the lack of an air cavity under the tip. Both are perfectly suitable for thin skinned medium game. As far as using dedicated match bullets for hunting, that varies depending on the bullet. The SMK can be quite unpredictable as far as its fragmentation characteristics go, while the Berger vld has a much more proven track record. Even the match Bergers are consistent performers, again requiring about 200 fps more than their hunting counterparts. One of my favorites for my 22-6mm is the berger 90gr vld at 3400 fps and I can say with 100% certainty it kills whitetails like a lightning bolt.
@@preacherbiggin Tipped matchkings on the other hand, are very explosive above 2k fps. They almost act like a vmax but with significantly more penetration due to the greater weight. Very nasty projectile
I would really like to see the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Nosler Accubond LR & Nosler Partition compared & contrasted. Any of the lead free/all copper offerings would be very interesting comparisons to the cup and core & bonded styles available today. Thank you for the fantastic footage and data.
@@guardianminifarm8005 ty this creedmore craze has gotten out of hand. I watch desertdog and the real gunsmith these 2 are great oh and not to forget. Gunblue490
I’d like to see a comparison between cutting edge Bullets and Barnes and maybe the Hornady GMX series… basically wanting to see how the solid Bullets performed.
I killed 2 caribou using Barnes 178gr TTX factory loads in .30-06 at just over 100 yards. Each received a second shot even though both first shots were well placed lung shots. No bullets were recovered. There was very little tissue damage and you could eat right up to the bullet hole. Alaska Ballistics opined that this bullet requires higher velocity than the ‘06 is capable of delivering. A lighter version of the same bullet might perform better with this cartridge.
I have shot deer with both the Barnes TTSX and the Cutting Edge Raptor. Hands down the Raptor does more internal damage with its 6 blades that separate from the front 1/3 or so of the bullet. Very spectacular kills for a nonlead bullet.
For all the commentary regarding planning and preparation to create the perfect test with infallible results, how the hell do they change a factor in the testing medium by removing one gel block from the second shot? Also why not take maybe two or three shots with each round to compare consistency?
Agree with Gavin given the accuracy of the X and it’s slight performance edge that would be my choice. Would love to see more tests like this comparing the terminal performance of bullets especially if you can keep the caliber the same across tests.
Thank you for doing this test. I'm reloading a 7mm WSM and the only bullets on the shelf for 7mm are the 162g ELD-Match. If I had the option to chose, I would go with a 'hunting' bullet, but that choice literally doesn't exist for me at this time. I now feel fully comfortable using the ELD-Match as a hunting round.
I shot a 250 lb caribou at around 200 yards with a hornady black 6.5 grendel I believe that is a match bullet (correct me if I'm wrong) and he was DRT, from a heart lung shot.
Originally, I had my doubts about the effectiveness of a match bullet as compared to a hunting bullet. While at the gun counter one day, I struck up a conversation with a fellow hunter who had much more experience hunting with match bullets and was able to shed light on this question. I then purchased two boxes of Hornady AMAX165 gn for my .308. So, for the past four hunting seasons, I've used Hornady 165 gn AMAX match 30 cal bullets for harvesting my white tail deer at 200 yards with zero issues. My deer ran 10-30 feet from where the animal was struck. Two were instant kills. So I would say that hunting with a match Hornady in my case is ethical.
I’ve run 168amax out of my 308 for years - just ran out of bullets so switching around to the 168 ELDM but first trying some 178amax just for interest sake as I had some left over from my 300wm (and btw the accuracy of the 178 in my 308 rem700 on the 178 at 100m is excellent. So see how they run at 200m and then on game - just have to rezero first).
I think more hunters are starting to consider match bullets, especially the ELD match bullets for hunting as the understanding of the efficiency of high BC's becomes more commonly talked about. A bullet that deflects the wind more efficiently loses velocity more slowly and in turn carries more potential energy downrange. The caveat in my mind is that a hunter shooting game at longer distances needs to place a limit on distance based on velocity so that there is enough energy to make an ethical kill.
@@claytonbruner1808 I believe that 1000 foot pounds on a deer should be the minimum for a humane kill. I won’t shoot an animal if it’s over 400 meters distant since at that range, the terminal energy for my bullet falls at or just under that 1000 ftlb mark.
I would like to see measurements for the depth to the start of expension, the maximum cavity width, the depth of penetration and same test at a lower velocity (1600 to 1800) fps to simulate expension at long range.
I didn’t expect the eld match to hold together that well. Nice surprise. It would be interesting if a heavy bone were to be molded a few inches into the first block. That would be a semi-realistic test of the bullets performance. God bless!
I hunt with match bullets and have great success. I would like to see more bullet tests from other manufactures at distances that would be practical for hunting out west. If you could do 6.5 prc with 153 atip vs Berger 156 eol.
The real test is on game with bone, tendons, and hide. I've hunted with target bullets before and it's a totally different outcome vs gel. Yes the bullet did the job and killed it but why settle for marginal when you got way better options for hunting bullets. Prefer guarantee performance vs a gamble. Which is what you get from target bullets.
Yep seen it multiple time when the match hits a rib or someone trys to square off on a shoulder. 6.5x284, 6.5 prc or a 264 winmag with a little more velocity would have shown way different results in the gel
Nice little study. As a retired surgeon and clinical researcher I would have used the third block, even one of the previously shot blocks, to ensure the resistance or target mass was identical. However, that wouldn’t have mattered in the results but if you were writing it up it would be a variable you’d have to explain. Secondly, it looks like the permanent or residual wound cavity of the hunting round is larger. Is that true? Is that significant? To both questions, if not, why not? I have done my share of trauma surgery including bullet wounds and shotgun wounds. I would be interested to know how ballistic gel models correlate to actual wounds. Difficult study to do ethically but it would be a question I would be interested in. If folks know the answer id appreciate your guidance toward the best studies otherwise Ill have to do the work and Im lazily retired. PS I did enjoy the bullet extraction. Very well done.
Love the show, thanks for doing this stuff. One thing I think I noticed in this comparison that I didn't hear about is the seemingly larger wound cavity left by the ELDX? I believe that would provide some margin for error in shot placement? Just a thought.
Would love to see more gel tests, all different bullet types, brands, fired from a variety of cartridges, etc. Especially hunting bullets. There is a lack of this kind of content on RUclips. It would be nice to know the actual terminal performance for bullets rather than relying on anecdotal evidence from others who have tried them before. It would help people a lot to make an informed decision when choosing a hunting bullet for the first time, or for those who want to branch out from their old standby, or just for those looking for a bullet that shoots well in a particular rifle and then are concerned how that bullet might perform on game.
I hunt with the .224 73 grain ELD-M for hogs and coyotes. Cheap to load and expand really well. For nuisance game they work great and haven’t had anything go more than 30 yards. Of course shot placement always plays a big roll.
Hogs must be some tough S.O.B.s to take a whack anywhere on the body from that and keep truckin. Never hunted them...they haven't made their way up into my state yet. Not that I know of..
@@nsob8897 the boars get literal shield from around the neck area to past the front shoulder once they get big enough. Shot one that weighed 372 pounds and you could have beat it with a bat and not made a dent
Oh yeah they get that meaty neck for fighting and taking nasty swipes from each other's tusks don't they? I'm sure they've caused more than a few stern men to tinkle a bit when they've been charged. Not that I'd admit to it if it happened to me. Haha
The black inside the block is not moving blanket. There are no holes in the bottom of the block that allowed the blanket in. Yes, the tremendous force of the block expanding shredded the blanket. But you didn't shoot through the blanket into the block. So there is no way for the blanket to get in. That is the leftover of the sonoluminescence that you mentioned. "Like a diesel engine". It's an internal explosion. It's burnt gel block.
Great video. I know this would be repetitive, but I would like to see maybe Sierra match versus hunting. I wonder if this is a Hornady phenomenon or is this a result that is true industry wide. I also am surprised that the hunting bullet didn't perform differently from the match bullet.
I would use either bullet for deer hunting. I’ve used the 143 ELD-X for Elk hunting in northern arizona. Using the factory Hornady precision hunter ammo in 6.5PRC, and it is a horrible for larger tougher game. Shot was at just over 300 yards. The bullet impacted directly on the onside shoulder, the bullet blew up and didn’t even penetrate to the onside lung. The shot shocked the animal enough that he just stood there shivering. Second shot was within an inch of the first, same exact result. Third shot was with a custom loaded 127LRX from my hunting buddy, it was taken at same distance, from a little bit of a quartering in angle, went in at the front of the onside shoulder, went all the way through and exited the animal on the offside shoulder and blew that shoulder out. Bullet was not recovered on the LRX. When we dressed the animal, yes, the damage from the ELD-X was great, but for only about 3-5 inches, and then they were stopped. The LRX wound channel was immense, and catastrophic. The ELD bullets are great DEER bullets. But not a good choice for larger, heavier, thicker skinned/boned game.
Gavin, great work once again. I've always been curious how Berger bullets perform hunters vs match next? I have used ELD-X bullets in 2 different calibers and had varying results from full fragmentation after impacting a rib upon entry, to perfect expansion resting against the far hide, to pass throughs at the same distances while shooting deer. I have since switched to Barnes because I like the idea of not poisoning my meat, nor the scavengers that clean up after my kills. This video gets me thinking that this test should be re-ran at minimum accepted velocities/ft.lbs to see where the real difference lies. Say for elk, 1,800 fps/1,200 ft.lbs energy which ever comes first? Also, the TSX vs GMX. Sierra TGK vs TMK. E-tip vs TTSX. You have tons of work to keep you busy with this topic, but it will generate mega buzz. I hope you are well!
I would recommend that you shoot blocks at velocity that would simulate 50,100, and 200 yards. Point blank gel block video's are not an apple to apple comparison to what his going to happen in real world. I would recommend that you move back the Yardage in actual distance, or down load to simulate what a ballistic's program says that the velocity would be. The approach of down loading to simulate various distances, would be a game changer for You tube video's. I thank you for making your video and you have done a very, very good job, which is why I make the suggestion....kick it up a notch! FOLKS will love the revealing results!
Would be great to do a similar video with comparative products. Sierra Gamechanger vs Eldx vs accubond (LR) vs Berger VLD vs Barnes Lr. Other videos have been done to a similar degree, but your scientific approach and high speed camera work would serve to provide consumers with better data from which to make decisions. Added to that, perhaps doing the comparison at 100 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards.
Cool idea. That would be more of a manufacturer vs manufacturer test than an M vs X style test. But a good test. But then we get into BC differences as well. Rabbit hole here we go. Fun science.
Excellent work (as always). Here are my thoughts: 1) No. I wouldn't hunt with either -- not when consistently expanding bonded bullets are available, AND excellent expanding lead-free bullets are available. I WOULD, however, not fear using a match bullet in "combat" -- and that is no small consideration since I always judge "gun stuff" from the perspective of "prepping." 2) I'd be especially interested in comparisons between these sorts of bullets vs expanding bonded bullets, to see if the bonded bullets are as FAR superior as I tend to think they would be. 3) I'd be very interested in practical work from you with lead-free bullets. Are their BC shortcomings significant? Is their wounding damage significantly different from what you have tested? 4) I'd like to see work involved reduced velocity loads, to demonstrate wounding effect at longer ranges.
Gavin and Travis, I was really excited to see you were doing this experiment. You see I have been using 168 grain Sierra Match Kings for hog and deer hunting out of a .30-06 for years with great success. Everyone tried to shame me for doing so, but the results spoke for themselves. I have never shot an animal that wasn't a bang, flop or at least dropped in my line of sight after my first testing on hogs indicated that I must keep the velocity down around 2600 FPS which gave me through penetration. Early on used H4350 don't remember the grain weight but as soon as I encountered Varget switched to 45.5 grains under the Match King. Been using them for near 40 yrs and if the .30-06 comes out of the case it is what I use. Thanks for showing I was not crazy.
This is awesome. I know quite a few hunters that use 140 eld-m and have had great success. One even started out with the 143 ELD-X and stopped using it for the 140 eld-m as he have better results with it. I currently use 140 eld-m hand loads at 2800fps but I'm not opposed to using the 143's.
Great video guys! I wonder what the effect is at distance as the projectiles looses energy. If the differences you are seeing are exponential and therefore much different that you see here. You guys should get the body gels with the bones and blood and simulate the shooting at a longer distance to see if at 300-400 yards what it looks like. Clearly Travis can take a look at the body and the cavity and easily give his medical opinion on what that person would look like in real life. Regardless - very cool and interesting stuff. My guess is that up to 600 yards almost any 140g projectile shot at 2700-2800 fps will have enough energy and penetration to make it a very bad day for anything sub 300-400 pounds on the receiving end.
I'll admit I was surprised in the weight retention. I thought the hunting bullet would be closer to 90% and the match would fragment or be closer to 50%.
I do hunt with match bullet and never had issues and it was simple for me. Use what you know you rifle is good at on your rifle experience with the load
I wonder what the effect would be of building a "roof" over your gel blocks so they don't jump. Or does this distort the manner in which the energy gets dumped into the gel?
Repeat this test by adding a bone into the gel setup. This could dramatically change the results as the thinner jacket is likely to fragment much more. A beef rib bone, broad and flat, could be a suitable start
Awesome 👏🏻 love having this in my favorites collection I’d love to see Berger Long Range Hybrid Target vs Hornady ELD Match off the shelf cartridges compared Based on this I’d have no problems hunting with ELDM but if ELDX was readily available for a reasonable amount then I’d be inclined to get some now
I hunt elk with the 215gr Hybrids out of a 300WM, Mule Deer with the 178gr ELD-M out of a 308Win and Antelope with 140gr VLD Target out of 6.5CM. All have performed flawlessly.
I actually use a 338 lapua on anything over 1000, 28 nossler or 264 win mag on the rest. But most people believe the 6.5 creed takes down elephats at 6000 yards.
The other thing not taken into consideration in this test is the distance at which they were shooting. If you are shooting the factory loads (Precision Hunter for ELD-X and Match for the ELD-M) you will drop in velocity from 2,700 f/s to 2,200 f/s at 400 yards. I think those bullets would react very differently at those speeds. I know that the reason people never seem to test at longer distances is the practical considerations (hitting the ballistic gel, having cameras record properly, etc.) but I always wonder why no one seems to think of reducing the powder on the load until the muzzle velocity matches what it would be at a longer distance.
Cool video. Personally, I’d only hunt with the hunting bullet, but I see how well the match bullet could perform. I’d be interested in seeing a comparison between .327 & .357 defensive loads.
Yes, Looking at your results I defiantly would hunt with a match bullet. The wound channel is identical and the damage is identical. One just goes a bit farther after the damage was done.
Amazing test. I'd like to see the SMK (BTHP) and how they perform. I use them for years very succesfully but people tell me that they're not ethical to use, wouldn't expand and things like that. I've definitely made a different experience. Expansion and devastating performance on game.
I'm looking for info on using the SMK's for hunting too, would you mind sharing what SMK weights and calibers you've used? I'm looking at using 250gr SMK's out of a 338 with mv of about 2850. Any help appreciated.
Interesting. I run the 143 and the 147 in the X and M. It is impossible to tell the difference after being loaded as case weight may be off by a few grains. I have very close velocities and my pounder charges are barely over a grain difference for a proper node. My point of impact is less than 1/2” per node. So my zero does not change. I use them interchangeably knowing I will get more distance out of the M. BC is close on both. The M gives me just a little more. While I am not as precise as y’all I have found the same things. I have used them on deer and wild hogs and both work well. I agree larger animals I would use the X.
This is my first time watching your channel, I must say that I am impressed very professional with excellent content, keep up the good work. Just subscribed.
Not all match bullets are the same type of bullet. For example the ELD M vs a Sierra MatchKing. Any of these polymer tipped bullets would be fine for most hunting applications. But for hunting I want as much penetration as possible while still having maximum expansion and weight retention. I'll take hunting bullets for that reason. ....Think you are on the animal of a lifetime. He has your sent and is standing extreme quartering to you. He is about to take off. Only shot is right through the front chest/ shoulder. I want a bullet that will get through the other end.
I've used the 108gr .243 ELD-M in 6mm Creedmoor on deer and had 100% success. It out shot the 103 ELD-X by a considerable margin so I decided to give it a try. Works like a charm so far. Have not had any shoulder shots but ribs are no obstacle.
I use the 108 in a 243 and drops them quick. Rarely over 50’ from the shot. Usually I am at 75 yards. But also dropped a big Sow at 300 with 2 shots. Most of the shock is inside the animal. More than 10” of penetration is beyond for deer and hogs.
Shot 2 Deer in November with this exact bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor by Hornady. Deer #1 Buck185 lbs. ran 10yards dropped. Deer #2 205 lbs. Zero yards dropped in tracks. These bullets are the real deal. Similar experiences in all Hornady bullets top notch. 6.5 Precision Hunter by Hornady a great round for an aging hunter (me) or anyone wanting to reduce recoil. Great channel thanks.
Just FYI - if you want to minimize gel block "jump", place them on a four inch foam pad. "Jump" is markedly minimized. (Referencing "TargetSuite" and his experimentation). Regarding your question "would I hunt" with a match bullet - well, before this test my automatic response would have been "No". After this test? Not so ready to rule out match bullets. My personal expectation (before test) was zero expansion and overpenetration. I was actually surprised by your results. Good job. 👍
I have always hunted with match bullets 22, 257 and 308..... They work very well... Remember accuracy is far more important. Say 600 yards it is the difference from a lung shot and a gut shot...
I hunt with the 147 gn Eldm in 6.5 prc. Cold bore is 3003 fps in my rifle. The 4 deer I have shot were DRT. Going for bull elk in December. Will report back!
To answer your question, hunt with Match bullets all the time, since about 22 years ago. Back when the 6.8 SPC was very young, and most of the bullets that were readily available sucked, except for the Match rounds. They worked phenomenally. OTM (open tip match) was my go-to, and still is in most cases. They are Super Effective. Thanks for the great video.
Wow! What a fantastic video! Yes, after watching I would have absolutely no problem hunting with either bullet. That doesn't mean I would use a match bullet from another manufacture. I have hunted with the Sierra 140gn Game king for several years. Now I'm curious how that bullet compares with the 140 matchking. It's time to try the Hornady.
Love this! Thanks for your work putting this together. Would really like to see more similar comparisons of bullet types, love to see more comparisons of monolithics for rifles. Seems to be where a lot of hunters are heading to reduce any possibilities of potential lead poisoning. In addition, some states are requiring the aforementioned. Thanks again and love it when you geek out on this stuff.
Like you guys said, the results were more similar than I thought they'd be also. I personally use a Suppressed Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor shooting the 140 ELDM at a muzzle velocity of 2820fps. The ELDM is my one bullet to do everything from shooting paper to red & sika deer here in New Zealand. I have had unbelievably good results on the range & in the field.. The rifle has been used in a guided hunting operation & shot a fair few deer from near to far... It's a rifle/cartridge combination clients shoot well. Thanks for the excellent video guys..👍
I shot 2 Chamois with my 300 PRC Hornady ELDM about 400 yards, the expansion was great for that distance. Both took no step. At shorter distances (200 yards) i recognized that the ELDX didn’t penetrate a 90 kg red deer stag, so i started using the LDM because of the better precision. Both bullets wont penetrate all the way between 0-200 yards. All game i shot so far including a 180kg red stag dropped immediately, so the penetration isn’t a big problem if you’re a good shooter. Great vid.
Love this stuff and reminds me of the day someone forgot to put the wet blanket over the ballistic soap and spending hours cleaning it off the walls and test kit, but we did have nice clean soft hands when we finished.I think forget which bullet is used and just look at the wound cavity in the blocks, the left looks to me to have the bigger cavity, more material moved out and a bigger needed to do that. As for how far the go in is not much interest as it is that explosion/ jellying of organs that kills and,in most cases it has gone out the body by then anyway. Soap has one plus point the cavity stays and you can fill it with plaster of paris and save it but harder to cut with a .
The black particles in the block are from the gas compression/ignition. You can see in the slow mo that the charring shows up after the flash and at the same spot in the block.
Awesome job Just because a bullet is a match bullet does not mean it's bad for hunting and just because something is sold as a hunting bullet doesn't mean it's a good hunting bullet. Would love to see more of these type comparisons. Again excellent job love the video.
The black is from the combustion in the ballistics gel not the table. The implosion gets the pressure so high that you have ignition. Easily seen on higher frame rate video, but even your video caputred the flash at 8:15. It's crazy to think about what is happening in the gel to make this happen.
When I hunt, I look at distance, conditions and desired effect as well as the targeted species. I like ballistic tips in most cases, but have been known to go with match under a few special conditions. One special condition can be the amount of interference, obstructions , in the bullets path prior to impact of target. Granted, if stand hunting you can pick your shot. When walking, you get what the conditions are as is. Thank you for your demonstration. It helps confirm my opinion.
Your production quality of this test is excellent. Forget the hater comments, these test results were totally valid. It shows that the terminal performance of the two is incredibly similar. Similar depth to upset, similar temp stretch, similar weight retention, similar depth of penetration. Maybe it’s not the direction you want your channel to go in but I’d love to see you compare other match bullets in the same category. Acubond long range, tipped matchking, bergers, terminal ascent. Would be neat to see their performance compared in a limited one against one comparison. Possibly tested against each other at different velocities one at muzzle velocity like this and one loaded to 1800-2000. Some other channels do this but their production quality is pretty crap.
Thanks for putting this together! I'd like to see a downloaded round to sub 2200 fps, maybe 1800 if possible to compare terminal ballistics at a typical LR hunting engagement range where I would actually be using one of these over something like a Partition.
Food for thought, the 1st round is held in place by 3 blocks of jel. next shot had only 2 blocks, the reason the 1st shot pushed farther in was due to the extra mass that held it in place good test but You have to consider all elements And take in consideration the extra weight Held the ballistic Jel in place to allow the bullet to travel farther. Just one old Soldier's analogy of your test. Thank you for all you guys do.
I agree with you 100%
I compare it to a bow. You can shoot clean thru a whitetail deer with a good shot. But, take the same bow, same arrow, and same Broadhead and it'll *almost* never pass all the way thru a smaller animal, like a squirrel.
The deer is much heavier and has alot more mass, the arrow is able to drive it's way thru as the deer provides much less deflection. The squirrel is so light, it provides too much deflection and the arrow get stuck in the animal, as it just ends up carrying the squirrel with it.
Just a theory 🤷🏻♂️
@LarryAhee, I had the exact same thought. It may not have made a difference to have the 3rd block there, but by not having it, it brings up the question because they changed the test parameters.
Exactly. The blocks were able to, and did, move more to absorb the energy. Change testing parameters, and the test results become irrelevant. Would the results have been different with a 3rd block? Who knows.... An apples to oranges comparison nets zero results that are considered relevant.
I agree with what has been said about the second test and no 3rd block. Another thing that was not bought up in the video was the amount of "springback" of the bullet in the first test. When you watch the slo-mo you can see the momentum of the bullet is being pushed back as the gelatain is settling down.
Last year because of the extreme shortage of bullets available we used the 140g ELDM for our deer hunt. We took 3 deer ranging from 125 to 440 meters. All three were heart shots all were terminal two of the deer dropped on the spot the other one, a whitetail buck went about 5 yards and fell. I would again without hesitation use the Match bullets. Confidence in your shot and bullet placement will do the job.
Agree 100%. Last year my wife shot her Muledeer 4 point buck beaded at about 165 yards with a ELDM 140 grain bullet and the buck expired in his bed. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for hunting from our experience.
I used 140 eldm for many years in my 6.5. Now I’m using Berger 140 elite hunter bullets. Both kill instantly. I use Berger hunting bullets full time now.
Gunwerks did an incredible amount of testing on a lot of 6.5 bullets when they entered the 6.5 creedmoor game. They hunted all over the world with many different bullets on all kinds of animals, and they eventually settled on the 140 ELDM as their go to bullet. I’ve seen a lot of animals taken with the 140 ELDM and the 143 ELDX and they both performed VERY well. I was interested in the findings of this video, but had already decided there really isn’t much practical difference in terminal performance. Good video.
Buying a 6.5CM now for this years deer hunt. Good info. Now just need to find which one my gun shoots more accurately.
I got a lot of crap from older guy about hunting with match ammo. We had 2 deer dropped this year with match bullets. Chose the match ammo because my gun and her gun was more accurate, 1/2-3/4 groups at 100 meters. Repeatedly.
Would be an interesting test (maybe more interesting) to to these again at around 1800fps velocity or 900ft-lbs. This is most bullet manufacturers min speed/energy for hunting. Match bullets are very common for long range hunting in many parts of the world due to the thinner jackets. The current test is at max velocity, which may not be a true reflection of real-life hunting.
Hunting at point blank range with match bullets it just works lol
I agree
Even down to 1400 fps
@@don_kandon6006 glad to have another supporter of the long range hunting group! People get so stuck on labeling.
THIS! I'd like to see them compared @ 100 yards
Load these 2 again with a reduced load. Running around 1700 to 1800 fps.
That would really be an interesting test! Not that this one isn't, because it is excellent. I just imagine most also want to see these at thier lower, "long range" performance.
Great job!
Keep'em coming!
147eldm factory cm expanded at 650 for me on an elk if want to look up velocity in a table. Was effective, collected on offside shoulder.
@@AP-cm3kb
Thanks partner. The 140 gr ELDM @2835 was impressive @1060 yards. I had just shot a great group at 1000 yards as my buddy and I were beginning to pack up for the evening. Still set for 1000 yards a varmint stepped out just beyond. My buddy ranged it at 1060 yards. I made the adjustment, eased the trigger and one varmint down. One thing here is conditions were near perfect. One thing I will do if ever I was to do it again is picture's. Being older I just forget sometimes these phones do so many things. That 147gr ELDM runs around 2800 + for me and I can't see not using it for longer shots. I'm also running the 130 Gamechanger at 3038 fps. I will use it for closer shots.
That 140 ELDM has 357 mag, at the muzzle velocity and ft-lb energy at 1000 yards. Those who argue ability of the cartridge but think a pistol cartridge like the 357 mag at the muzzle or within 50 yards is capable for deer hunting need to look at those energies. Given you have practiced at those ranges, know your dope, rifle and your capabilities. Would I take that shot again? Maybe, if conditions were right and I anticipate the target is going to be stationary for enough time. A good place to see low velocity bullet testing is SimpleMindedFellow here on RUclips. He tests reduced loads in gel. Very impressive testing with some surprising outcomes. Go to his playlist and check out his 6.5cm bullet testing (Hornady ELDM & Nosler ABLR). The velocities with decent performance, (if going by gel alone) are suprising.
You could make a whole channel on testing bullets like this. You did test a LR -V- Match bullet at close range. For hunting test the SST. Would like to see the Hunting bullets tested at 100 yards at realistic impact velocities as this is also the distance for accuracy testing ....PLEASE keep making these test videos.
Check out Simple Minded Fella’s channel. He tests bullets at different velocities.
This!
Now that we are seeing the rapid expansion of the ELDM, we need to see how it compares to an expansion bullet like the SST. So yeah, we need a series from UR.
Alaskan Ballistics does this
It’s not rocket surgery though honestly. Shot placement and actual caliber are so much more important. Why be picky about bullets in every scenario under the sun.
Awesome test! You guys put a lot of work into this. I will say, the 147 grain eld match vs the 143 eld x would be very interesting to see however.
I'd hunt with an ELD-M for sure. These results look pretty good. The temporary wound channel was pretty close if not identical. The permanent would channel does look slightly larger with the ELD-X, but I'm sure the deer will look the same in my freezer with either of these bullets.
Until you hit a rib or pull to a shoulder at closer ranges. Better be ready to reload quick or track for miles. Been there multiple times with other hunters and my Wife swearing by the match.
When it works out at 600-700 yards great when it doesn't at 200-300 its a crappy day sometimes into the night.
@@cole4406 the host of the show… yes deer run sometimes. Back to that old saying. Shot placement is far more important than anything else… bullet or caliber.
@@pcjpcj4070 that’s the age old problem huh. Europe likes the Grenade types like vld. Here we want 40” of penetration cause what if. But if you just knew what you were shooting with what it sorta all has it’s plus and minus deals. Lot of long range hunters use smk’s go figure. I say if your not going to shoot a real caliber make sure you shoot it well. Like if you can’t tie a knot tie a lot kinda deal.
I'm not sure there's really a reason to hunt with a match bullet. Given the expense of any hunt, desire for a clean harvest etc - proper bullet selection is pretty important. Shoulders, especially do a real number on bullets. I've seen more than a few basically blow apart hitting a shoulder joint. The end results can really be upsetting on a number of levels. Does some desire to economize or a lack of time to sight in, learn your drop table etc really make up for any risk of this happening? A-Frame, TSX, TTSX, Partition, Oryx etc - they have a reputation for a reason.
@@StewartCountyBallistics Gave an real example on a rib bone that actually happen in the field. Guess some people are too dense to quantify bone is bone and match are soft and at high velocities they splatter on bone. As I stated, they are good at longer ranges where the velocities are lower and they can hold together, but you may not have been able to comprehend that far so you've probably already strained your mind after the first sentence and haven't made it this far again.
Small nitpick regarding the black marks inside the gel: it appears to me that they are scorch marks from the combustion of the trapped gasses instead of pulling in any blanket material. When you were doing the frame-by-frame side-by-side scrubbing, you can see clean gel before the flash, the flash in the next frame, and suddenly scorch marks in the frames after that.
Agree. Good observation.
Sonar luminance
Yes........there is no way that "blanket material" got drug into the bullet channel
1st question: yes I would and have hunted with 140 ELDM on deer in west Tennessee excellent results
2nd question harvest a deer use actual rib cage with hide in front of gel with high speed, also I agree there's infinite bullets to test I personally would like to see the same slow speed footage at say 185-225 yards ( easly an ethical hunting distance) to see what happens to the bullets when speed starts dropping. Absolutely love all the data points, great work guys! Stay safe and God bless
At 300 yards
I mostly agree with you, but would like to see two shots - one at
Let’s just see an elk taken with each at 400 yards?
I have aimed it ribs to grenade through the vitals as long as it stayed out of the back straps.
@@handcannon1388 I was thinking along the same lines. This test demonstrates the effects on soft tissue. What happens when the match bullet impacts bone? I think the match bullet would disintegrate while the hunting bullet would hold together better because of the thicker jacket. Also I noticed the match bullet ended up sideways in the gel while the hunting bullet did not. Does the match bullet have a greater tendency to tumble? Very interesting video. Given these bullets are very similar I agree with Gavin I would use the ELDX for hunting.
I would NOT have hunted with the ELD-M before this video, but now, no problem, especially at what I typically shoot game at under 300 yards. Great video, very informative
Do you shoot animals at 2700 fps? They botched the test. Don't fall for it until they slow the velocity down and/or extend the distance. He built a "1/4 rifle but he can't set the block 100 yards away to test it correctly? Not saying the ELD-M isn't up to snuff, but don't follow these test results just yet.
@@joshuahunt1210 ELD-M tends to expand better at lower velocities so is better at longer range, plus is still adequate(although not as good) at close range. Overall for whitetail I think match is better at least out of the .308 I use.
@@joshuahunt1210 You have it backwards, the match bullets will expand at lower velocities than the hunting bullets as they are softer. This is a big deal with modern high bc bullets as they will icepick and do very little damage at too low of a speed. The high SD means even a very soft bullet will get good penetration.
@PineyJustice Sorry, but I've tested matchkings at low velocity and they don't expand. I think I even posted a video with my findings. Albeit it was one if my first videos but my personal tests with the matchkings stop me from using them in any cartridge smaller than 30 cal. The ELD-M will likely be better than the Matchkings because the size of the hole at the point is wider (under the plastic). The A-Max bullets kill reliably but they're only available in 168gr .308 anymore. He still should have tested this bullet at lower velocity and further distance. I hear similar reports on the 308 ELD-M too. But smaller cartridges and I'd get worried.
@redtra236 ah there we go. Yes, I actually spoke with Nathan Foster of Ballistic Studies and he had good things to say about the 308 ELD-Ms too. I'd be worried about smaller cartilage though. Just trying to ensure reliable kills and humane harvests here!
I love how you "nerd out" on these tests and give us the specifics. This stuff does make a difference if a guy get a coveted tag like a bighorn or hot elk area.
Yep it was a good test. I wanted to see the jacket results. Shoot the 270 eldx out of the 338 lapua.
Given that the ELDx are extremely hard to find I would consider using it for deer (mule, coues, eastern whitetail), but I wouldn’t use it for Elk. Awesome video!
Seems like a more realistic test would be to reduce the velocity to something realistic to a hunting impact velocity. Then keep reducing the velocity till you find the velocity where it doesn't reliably expand anymore.
Agreed.👍
Is ballistic gel cheap and easy to make?
@@jestes7 I think it's quite expensive but I'm not the one buying it.
My thoughts exactly. Also, put some carpeted plywood in front of the gel blocks to simulate hide and bone before entering the vital cavity.
@@jestes7 A lot of people make their own at home, and it's often not clear or the right density. If they spent a lot for this stuff, it was to get it clear and also to have the correct density, most likely the FBI standard for testing.
Thanks for tackling this question. I can only find match ammo for 6.5 CM. I think the deer drops either way if I do my part. What I suspected.
Oh yeah, components are not easy to find. Go with what the store has
Ive shot 2 whitetails, a mule deer and an antelope with the 140 grain eld M bullets. Furthest at 510, closest at 128. Clean and rapid kills.
ive been dying to see this exact test, so much so that i was looking into getting ballistic gel myself, thank you for saving me the headache, looked like yall had way more fun than i would of
Just fascinating to watch terminal ballistics produced so professionally! MUCH THANKS for all the hard work gents! I continue to be a happy subscriber…
Keep up the excellent work!!!
Great test, appreciate the insight. I would stick with ELDX for hunting. Better penetration. Bone impacts may separate them even further.
This is where my mind went. The significant increase in jacket thickness of the eldx would, I imagine, improve weight retention with bone impacts.
I recently switched away from them specifically because of their lack of penetration. Had a few broadside whitetail at close range that didn't have an exit wound. Still died, but not a blood trail to speak of. Probably would do better at a longer range/ slower velocity, but close range was having some bullet failures with I assume on bone impact(one thing ballistics gel will never represent.)
Giving monolithics a try this year, first one poked through easily and had a very nice blood trail.
Better penetration throught what?
I have shot Whitetails : complete pass through with the 140 M with enough devastation that I cant show the pictures ( blood & tissues ) but in your mind it may???? may??? what ever youll shoot, it will kill. dont shoot the Quads, keep your shots in vitals and stop worrying about the : may???? its scary… confidence in you and gear.
@@portermcmichael756 OMG have you shoot on real game in your life? not talking about squirrels here …
I tested the140 ELDM out of my 6.5-300 weatherby through a fresh whitetail shoulder that was strapped in front of 3 gel blocks at 100yds. The bullet performed great, it left a huge permanent wound cavity and was 81.2 grains after being recovered.
I would also love to see this same test repeated at lower velocities to simulate shots at longer ranges
There is a long range hunting Group channel here on RUclips that already did that. 308 instead of 6.5
@@KeithDecker I'm not sure if RUclips will let you or not, but could you drop a link to the video?
It was violent enough to rip the material up from the cargo blanket! That’s amazing! Awesome video! Thanks!
Definitely keep the same number of blocks on the table to assure block flex or movement is not impacting the results. Secondly, I think it would be great to do the same comparison between the ELD-X and the A-Tip. Including the GMX is fine if desired, but you must include the ELD-X as a “control” to be able to account for any environmental or gel differences. That’s the only way to keep the hunting vs. match bullets for hunting comparison valid. Ideally doing more than one round of each so that you have a larger sampling population would be more valid statistically, but the extra time, expense, etc. may make that prohibitive. I would also suggest impacting the gel at lower velocities to simulate farther distances but realize the extra cost and effort is huge. Still, that would closer answer the original question. Excellent testing procedure IMO so far, very informative, and even as a long term follower, Gavin you continue to impress me with what you do and how you do it. Amazing!
Ive taken 2 mule deer with a 130 nosler rdf in a 6.5 prc at 3050 fps. One at 800 yards and the other at 430. Both hydrostatic shock. Both bullets passed all the way through.
Very interesting! I have a friend who says that match bullets work well for hunting whitetail deer… I was skeptical… but no longer! I will stick with my 143 ELDX but wouldn’t hesitate to use the 140 ELDM!
I would be very interested to see the 6.5 Grendel tested with 123 ELDM VS. 123 SST
I'd like to see a deer hide and rib bones added to the test. It would be interesting to see what that harder impact surface does to the bullets.
Ballistic gel is a substitute for tissue and bones not just tissue.
@@cadetbooth,
Where are you finding anything referring to it simulating bones as well? Every manufacturer I can find only refers to it simulating tissue specifically and makes no mention of bones.
@@cadetbooth totally incorrect! Only simulates tissue and that's without tendons or bone
@@cadetbooth Let’s think about this. Bone is quite hard. Gel is soft. How can a soft substance simulate a hard object accurately?
@@don_kandon6006 I'm going off my own experience of actually putting bullets in game animals and not a simulation. Nothing compares to living tissue.
Yes I would and do hunt with the match bullet. This exact one! I hunt whitetails in Missouri and they have performed perfect for me! Great video
I don’t see enough difference to worry about it (a lot). This was extra fun to watch! Would love to see something similar with 6.5 Grendel.
Thank you so much for doing this experiment. I purchased 4 boxes of 140 grain ELDM last year with the intent to hunt whitetail with them but, I received a lot of criticism for it. I am now comfortable and confident with them and I will be using them.
I conducted an almost identical test a few years ago with nearly identical results. What I found was that the eld would come apart slightly more at high velocity due to the thinner jacket and lack of an internal cannelure to lock the core and jacket together, while also requiring about 200 fps more velocity to initiate expansion vs the eldx due to the lack of an air cavity under the tip. Both are perfectly suitable for thin skinned medium game. As far as using dedicated match bullets for hunting, that varies depending on the bullet. The SMK can be quite unpredictable as far as its fragmentation characteristics go, while the Berger vld has a much more proven track record. Even the match Bergers are consistent performers, again requiring about 200 fps more than their hunting counterparts. One of my favorites for my 22-6mm is the berger 90gr vld at 3400 fps and I can say with 100% certainty it kills whitetails like a lightning bolt.
My hunting buddy and myself have noticed the same results with the match kings. Consistently inconsistent expansion.
@@preacherbiggin Tipped matchkings on the other hand, are very explosive above 2k fps. They almost act like a vmax but with significantly more penetration due to the greater weight. Very nasty projectile
Best gel block footage that I have seen anywhere. Exceptional job. Not surprising, coming from you guys...
I would really like to see the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Nosler Accubond LR & Nosler Partition compared & contrasted. Any of the lead free/all copper offerings would be very interesting comparisons to the cup and core & bonded styles available today. Thank you for the fantastic footage and data.
I Second...Partition for sure
I love partition bullets killed many moose with them. But would never use 6.5 caliber on big game.
@@Peter-od7op lol I second that also!
@@Peter-od7op Good point. Perhaps a larger caliber like a 7mm or 30 cal.
If possible.
@@guardianminifarm8005 ty this creedmore craze has gotten out of hand. I watch desertdog and the real gunsmith these 2 are great oh and not to forget. Gunblue490
I’d like to see a comparison between cutting edge Bullets and Barnes and maybe the Hornady GMX series… basically wanting to see how the solid Bullets performed.
I killed 2 caribou using Barnes 178gr TTX factory loads in .30-06 at just over 100 yards. Each received a second shot even though both first shots were well placed lung shots. No bullets were recovered. There was very little tissue damage and you could eat right up to the bullet hole.
Alaska Ballistics opined that this bullet requires higher velocity than the ‘06 is capable of delivering. A lighter version of the same bullet might perform better with this cartridge.
I have shot deer with both the Barnes TTSX and the Cutting Edge Raptor. Hands down the Raptor does more internal damage with its 6 blades that separate from the front 1/3 or so of the bullet. Very spectacular kills for a nonlead bullet.
I LOVE the precision with which you conducted this test. Very professional but still approachable A+ guys!
For all the commentary regarding planning and preparation to create the perfect test with infallible results, how the hell do they change a factor in the testing medium by removing one gel block from the second shot? Also why not take maybe two or three shots with each round to compare consistency?
Agree with Gavin given the accuracy of the X and it’s slight performance edge that would be my choice. Would love to see more tests like this comparing the terminal performance of bullets especially if you can keep the caliber the same across tests.
Thank you for doing this test. I'm reloading a 7mm WSM and the only bullets on the shelf for 7mm are the 162g ELD-Match. If I had the option to chose, I would go with a 'hunting' bullet, but that choice literally doesn't exist for me at this time. I now feel fully comfortable using the ELD-Match as a hunting round.
I shot a 250 lb caribou at around 200 yards with a hornady black 6.5 grendel I believe that is a match bullet (correct me if I'm wrong) and he was DRT, from a heart lung shot.
Originally, I had my doubts about the effectiveness of a match bullet as compared to a hunting bullet. While at the gun counter one day, I struck up a conversation with a fellow hunter who had much more experience hunting with match bullets and was able to shed light on this question. I then purchased two boxes of Hornady AMAX165 gn for my .308. So, for the past four hunting seasons, I've used Hornady 165 gn AMAX match 30 cal bullets for harvesting my white tail deer at 200 yards with zero issues. My deer ran 10-30 feet from where the animal was struck. Two were instant kills. So I would say that hunting with a match Hornady in my case is ethical.
Since I can’t find any .308 hunting bullets this is awesome to know. Thanks!
I’ve run 168amax out of my 308 for years - just ran out of bullets so switching around to the 168 ELDM but first trying some 178amax just for interest sake as I had some left over from my 300wm (and btw the accuracy of the 178 in my 308 rem700 on the 178 at 100m is excellent. So see how they run at 200m and then on game - just have to rezero first).
I think more hunters are starting to consider match bullets, especially the ELD match bullets for hunting as the understanding of the efficiency of high BC's becomes more commonly talked about. A bullet that deflects the wind more efficiently loses velocity more slowly and in turn carries more potential energy downrange. The caveat in my mind is that a hunter shooting game at longer distances needs to place a limit on distance based on velocity so that there is enough energy to make an ethical kill.
@@claytonbruner1808 I believe that 1000 foot pounds on a deer should be the minimum for a humane kill. I won’t shoot an animal if it’s over 400 meters distant since at that range, the terminal energy for my bullet falls at or just under that 1000 ftlb mark.
I would like to see measurements for the depth to the start of expension, the maximum cavity width, the depth of penetration and same test at a lower velocity (1600 to 1800) fps to simulate expension at long range.
This!
I didn’t expect the eld match to hold together that well. Nice surprise.
It would be interesting if a heavy bone were to be
molded a few inches into the first block. That would be a semi-realistic test of the bullets performance.
God bless!
Check out "long range hunting group" he uses a rack of ribs in front of his gel block to simulate a real shot.
I hunt with match bullets and have great success. I would like to see more bullet tests from other manufactures at distances that would be practical for hunting out west. If you could do 6.5 prc with 153 atip vs Berger 156 eol.
This is the best RUclips channel hands down
You are too kind! Thanks for the support!
The real test is on game with bone, tendons, and hide. I've hunted with target bullets before and it's a totally different outcome vs gel. Yes the bullet did the job and killed it but why settle for marginal when you got way better options for hunting bullets. Prefer guarantee performance vs a gamble. Which is what you get from target bullets.
Yep seen it multiple time when the match hits a rib or someone trys to square off on a shoulder.
6.5x284, 6.5 prc or a 264 winmag with a little more velocity would have shown way different results in the gel
Nice little study. As a retired surgeon and clinical researcher I would have used the third block, even one of the previously shot blocks, to ensure the resistance or target mass was identical. However, that wouldn’t have mattered in the results but if you were writing it up it would be a variable you’d have to explain. Secondly, it looks like the permanent or residual wound cavity of the hunting round is larger. Is that true? Is that significant? To both questions, if not, why not? I have done my share of trauma surgery including bullet wounds and shotgun wounds. I would be interested to know how ballistic gel models correlate to actual wounds. Difficult study to do ethically but it would be a question I would be interested in. If folks know the answer id appreciate your guidance toward the best studies otherwise Ill have to do the work and Im lazily retired.
PS I did enjoy the bullet extraction. Very well done.
Love the show, thanks for doing this stuff. One thing I think I noticed in this comparison that I didn't hear about is the seemingly larger wound cavity left by the ELDX? I believe that would provide some margin for error in shot placement? Just a thought.
Great video. I'm happy to see professional work on RUclips.
Would love to see more gel tests, all different bullet types, brands, fired from a variety of cartridges, etc. Especially hunting bullets. There is a lack of this kind of content on RUclips. It would be nice to know the actual terminal performance for bullets rather than relying on anecdotal evidence from others who have tried them before. It would help people a lot to make an informed decision when choosing a hunting bullet for the first time, or for those who want to branch out from their old standby, or just for those looking for a bullet that shoots well in a particular rifle and then are concerned how that bullet might perform on game.
Great video, you did flaw the results by changing the gell set up.
I hunt with the .224 73 grain ELD-M for hogs and coyotes. Cheap to load and expand really well. For nuisance game they work great and haven’t had anything go more than 30 yards. Of course shot placement always plays a big roll.
Hogs must be some tough S.O.B.s to take a whack anywhere on the body from that and keep truckin. Never hunted them...they haven't made their way up into my state yet. Not that I know of..
@@nsob8897 the boars get literal shield from around the neck area to past the front shoulder once they get big enough. Shot one that weighed 372 pounds and you could have beat it with a bat and not made a dent
Oh yeah they get that meaty neck for fighting and taking nasty swipes from each other's tusks don't they? I'm sure they've caused more than a few stern men to tinkle a bit when they've been charged. Not that I'd admit to it if it happened to me. Haha
The black inside the block is not moving blanket. There are no holes in the bottom of the block that allowed the blanket in. Yes, the tremendous force of the block expanding shredded the blanket. But you didn't shoot through the blanket into the block. So there is no way for the blanket to get in. That is the leftover of the sonoluminescence that you mentioned. "Like a diesel engine". It's an internal explosion. It's burnt gel block.
Great video. I know this would be repetitive, but I would like to see maybe Sierra match versus hunting. I wonder if this is a Hornady phenomenon or is this a result that is true industry wide. I also am surprised that the hunting bullet didn't perform differently from the match bullet.
I would use either bullet for deer hunting. I’ve used the 143 ELD-X for Elk hunting in northern arizona. Using the factory Hornady precision hunter ammo in 6.5PRC, and it is a horrible for larger tougher game. Shot was at just over 300 yards. The bullet impacted directly on the onside shoulder, the bullet blew up and didn’t even penetrate to the onside lung. The shot shocked the animal enough that he just stood there shivering. Second shot was within an inch of the first, same exact result. Third shot was with a custom loaded 127LRX from my hunting buddy, it was taken at same distance, from a little bit of a quartering in angle, went in at the front of the onside shoulder, went all the way through and exited the animal on the offside shoulder and blew that shoulder out. Bullet was not recovered on the LRX. When we dressed the animal, yes, the damage from the ELD-X was great, but for only about 3-5 inches, and then they were stopped. The LRX wound channel was immense, and catastrophic.
The ELD bullets are great DEER bullets. But not a good choice for larger, heavier, thicker skinned/boned game.
Gavin, great work once again. I've always been curious how Berger bullets perform hunters vs match next? I have used ELD-X bullets in 2 different calibers and had varying results from full fragmentation after impacting a rib upon entry, to perfect expansion resting against the far hide, to pass throughs at the same distances while shooting deer. I have since switched to Barnes because I like the idea of not poisoning my meat, nor the scavengers that clean up after my kills. This video gets me thinking that this test should be re-ran at minimum accepted velocities/ft.lbs to see where the real difference lies. Say for elk, 1,800 fps/1,200 ft.lbs energy which ever comes first? Also, the TSX vs GMX. Sierra TGK vs TMK. E-tip vs TTSX. You have tons of work to keep you busy with this topic, but it will generate mega buzz. I hope you are well!
I would recommend that you shoot blocks at velocity that would simulate 50,100, and 200 yards. Point blank gel block video's are not an apple to apple comparison to what his going to happen in real world. I would recommend that you move back the Yardage in actual distance, or down load to simulate what a ballistic's program says that the velocity would be.
The approach of down loading to simulate various distances, would be a game changer for You tube video's.
I thank you for making your video and you have done a very, very good job, which is why I make the suggestion....kick it up a notch! FOLKS will love the revealing results!
Would be great to do a similar video with comparative products. Sierra Gamechanger vs Eldx vs accubond (LR) vs Berger VLD vs Barnes Lr. Other videos have been done to a similar degree, but your scientific approach and high speed camera work would serve to provide consumers with better data from which to make decisions. Added to that, perhaps doing the comparison at 100 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards.
Cool idea. That would be more of a manufacturer vs manufacturer test than an M vs X style test. But a good test. But then we get into BC differences as well. Rabbit hole here we go. Fun science.
Excellent work (as always). Here are my thoughts:
1) No. I wouldn't hunt with either -- not when consistently expanding bonded bullets are available, AND excellent expanding lead-free bullets are available. I WOULD, however, not fear using a match bullet in "combat" -- and that is no small consideration since I always judge "gun stuff" from the perspective of "prepping."
2) I'd be especially interested in comparisons between these sorts of bullets vs expanding bonded bullets, to see if the bonded bullets are as FAR superior as I tend to think they would be.
3) I'd be very interested in practical work from you with lead-free bullets. Are their BC shortcomings significant? Is their wounding damage significantly different from what you have tested?
4) I'd like to see work involved reduced velocity loads, to demonstrate wounding effect at longer ranges.
shot placement reigns supreme, so KNOW YOUR BULLET.
BTHP bullets would be really cool to see!
i was thinking the same thing.
Gavin and Travis, I was really excited to see you were doing this experiment. You see I have been using 168 grain Sierra Match Kings for hog and deer hunting out of a .30-06 for years with great success. Everyone tried to shame me for doing so, but the results spoke for themselves. I have never shot an animal that wasn't a bang, flop or at least dropped in my line of sight after my first testing on hogs indicated that I must keep the velocity down around 2600 FPS which gave me through penetration. Early on used H4350 don't remember the grain weight but as soon as I encountered Varget switched to 45.5 grains under the Match King. Been using them for near 40 yrs and if the .30-06 comes out of the case it is what I use. Thanks for showing I was not crazy.
*Would love to see this test with Berger VLD vs Berger Hunting Bullets!*
I have used 175 gr VLD in a 300wm whitetail hunting with great success.
Their hunting vld used to be a match vld years ago. They work good I've shot several deer with them
This is awesome. I know quite a few hunters that use 140 eld-m and have had great success. One even started out with the 143 ELD-X and stopped using it for the 140 eld-m as he have better results with it.
I currently use 140 eld-m hand loads at 2800fps but I'm not opposed to using the 143's.
Great video guys! I wonder what the effect is at distance as the projectiles looses energy. If the differences you are seeing are exponential and therefore much different that you see here. You guys should get the body gels with the bones and blood and simulate the shooting at a longer distance to see if at 300-400 yards what it looks like. Clearly Travis can take a look at the body and the cavity and easily give his medical opinion on what that person would look like in real life. Regardless - very cool and interesting stuff. My guess is that up to 600 yards almost any 140g projectile shot at 2700-2800 fps will have enough energy and penetration to make it a very bad day for anything sub 300-400 pounds on the receiving end.
This was a perfect test for my needs because I just got a 6.5 CM and bought some 143 ELD-X bullets for hunting. Thank you!
I'll admit I was surprised in the weight retention. I thought the hunting bullet would be closer to 90% and the match would fragment or be closer to 50%.
I do hunt with match bullet and never had issues and it was simple for me. Use what you know you rifle is good at on your rifle experience with the load
I wonder what the effect would be of building a "roof" over your gel blocks so they don't jump. Or does this distort the manner in which the energy gets dumped into the gel?
Repeat this test by adding a bone into the gel setup. This could dramatically change the results as the thinner jacket is likely to fragment much more.
A beef rib bone, broad and flat, could be a suitable start
Awesome 👏🏻 love having this in my favorites collection
I’d love to see Berger Long Range Hybrid Target vs Hornady ELD Match off the shelf cartridges compared
Based on this I’d have no problems hunting with ELDM but if ELDX was readily available for a reasonable amount then I’d be inclined to get some now
Thanks Ron! Good call on Berger…
Beautiful footage. Really appreciate the work that went into this
I hunt elk with the 215gr Hybrids out of a 300WM, Mule Deer with the 178gr ELD-M out of a 308Win and Antelope with 140gr VLD Target out of 6.5CM.
All have performed flawlessly.
I actually use a 338 lapua on anything over 1000, 28 nossler or 264 win mag on the rest. But most people believe the 6.5 creed takes down elephats at 6000 yards.
@@pcjpcj4070 and flies straight, through hurricane force winds
The other thing not taken into consideration in this test is the distance at which they were shooting. If you are shooting the factory loads (Precision Hunter for ELD-X and Match for the ELD-M) you will drop in velocity from 2,700 f/s to 2,200 f/s at 400 yards. I think those bullets would react very differently at those speeds.
I know that the reason people never seem to test at longer distances is the practical considerations (hitting the ballistic gel, having cameras record properly, etc.) but I always wonder why no one seems to think of reducing the powder on the load until the muzzle velocity matches what it would be at a longer distance.
Cool video. Personally, I’d only hunt with the hunting bullet, but I see how well the match bullet could perform. I’d be interested in seeing a comparison between .327 & .357 defensive loads.
Yes, Looking at your results I defiantly would hunt with a match bullet. The wound channel is identical and the damage is identical. One just goes a bit farther after the damage was done.
Amazing test. I'd like to see the SMK (BTHP) and how they perform. I use them for years very succesfully but people tell me that they're not ethical to use, wouldn't expand and things like that. I've definitely made a different experience. Expansion and devastating performance on game.
I'm looking for info on using the SMK's for hunting too, would you mind sharing what SMK weights and calibers you've used? I'm looking at using 250gr SMK's out of a 338 with mv of about 2850. Any help appreciated.
At which distances do you shoot game with them?
@@borkwoof696 out to 500 Meters
@@MrSchnyderli how well do they work within 100 and 200 yards?
@@benclimbing 200gr in .300 WinMag
Interesting. I run the 143 and the 147 in the X and M.
It is impossible to tell the difference after being loaded as case weight may be off by a few grains.
I have very close velocities and my pounder charges are barely over a grain difference for a proper node.
My point of impact is less than 1/2” per node. So my zero does not change. I use them interchangeably knowing I will get more distance out of the M.
BC is close on both. The M gives me just a little more.
While I am not as precise as y’all I have found the same things.
I have used them on deer and wild hogs and both work well.
I agree larger animals I would use the X.
I wonder if the third block sitting in behind the second from the ELDX test would have had an impact on the ELDM test if it backed up the second?
I think the m would have penetrated farther with a third block.
In the name of science why did they remove the third block? DO EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME!
I went looking for this video, and you guys NAILED IT! Thank you so much for doing this. Exactly what I was looking for.
I would have liked to have seen an inner lock and an inner bond in this test
This is my first time watching your channel, I must say that I am impressed very professional with excellent content, keep up the good work.
Just subscribed.
Not all match bullets are the same type of bullet. For example the ELD M vs a Sierra MatchKing. Any of these polymer tipped bullets would be fine for most hunting applications. But for hunting I want as much penetration as possible while still having maximum expansion and weight retention. I'll take hunting bullets for that reason. ....Think you are on the animal of a lifetime. He has your sent and is standing extreme quartering to you. He is about to take off. Only shot is right through the front chest/ shoulder. I want a bullet that will get through the other end.
I've used the 108gr .243 ELD-M in 6mm Creedmoor on deer and had 100% success. It out shot the 103 ELD-X by a considerable margin so I decided to give it a try. Works like a charm so far. Have not had any shoulder shots but ribs are no obstacle.
I use the 108 in a 243 and drops them quick. Rarely over 50’ from the shot. Usually I am at 75 yards. But also dropped a big Sow at 300 with 2 shots. Most of the shock is inside the animal. More than 10” of penetration is beyond for deer and hogs.
Either way you cut it,that’s a dead animal. Curious about the new a-tip and how it would do in a hunting scenario
Shot 2 Deer in November with this exact bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor by Hornady. Deer #1 Buck185 lbs. ran 10yards dropped. Deer #2 205 lbs. Zero yards dropped in tracks. These bullets are the real deal. Similar experiences in all Hornady bullets top notch. 6.5 Precision Hunter by Hornady a great round for an aging hunter (me) or anyone wanting to reduce recoil. Great channel thanks.
Thank you for an excellent video. Any testing you can do in any cartridge is valuable information. I hope you can do more.
Just FYI - if you want to minimize gel block "jump", place them on a four inch foam pad. "Jump" is markedly minimized. (Referencing "TargetSuite" and his experimentation).
Regarding your question "would I hunt" with a match bullet - well, before this test my automatic response would have been "No". After this test? Not so ready to rule out match bullets. My personal expectation (before test) was zero expansion and overpenetration. I was actually surprised by your results.
Good job. 👍
I have always hunted with match bullets 22, 257 and 308..... They work very well... Remember accuracy is far more important. Say 600 yards it is the difference from a lung shot and a gut shot...
I hunt with the 147 gn Eldm in 6.5 prc. Cold bore is 3003 fps in my rifle. The 4 deer I have shot were DRT. Going for bull elk in December. Will report back!
How’d that elk hunt go. How far was the shot?
Best informative channel on RUclips. Great job Gavin on the channel and great job guys on this video
To answer your question, hunt with Match bullets all the time, since about 22 years ago. Back when the 6.8 SPC was very young, and most of the bullets that were readily available sucked, except for the Match rounds. They worked phenomenally. OTM (open tip match) was my go-to, and still is in most cases. They are Super Effective. Thanks for the great video.
Wow! What a fantastic video! Yes, after watching I would have absolutely no problem hunting with either bullet. That doesn't mean I would use a match bullet from another manufacture. I have hunted with the Sierra 140gn Game king for several years. Now I'm curious how that bullet compares with the 140 matchking. It's time to try the Hornady.
Love this! Thanks for your work putting this together.
Would really like to see more similar comparisons of bullet types, love to see more comparisons of monolithics for rifles. Seems to be where a lot of hunters are heading to reduce any possibilities of potential lead poisoning. In addition, some states are requiring the aforementioned.
Thanks again and love it when you geek out on this stuff.
Like you guys said, the results were more similar than I thought they'd be also. I personally use a Suppressed Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor shooting the 140 ELDM at a
muzzle velocity of 2820fps.
The ELDM is my one bullet to do everything from shooting paper to red & sika deer here in New Zealand. I have had unbelievably good results on the range & in the field..
The rifle has been used in a guided hunting operation & shot a fair few deer from near to far...
It's a rifle/cartridge combination clients shoot well.
Thanks for the excellent video guys..👍
I shot 2 Chamois with my 300 PRC Hornady ELDM about 400 yards, the expansion was great for that distance. Both took no step.
At shorter distances (200 yards) i recognized that the ELDX didn’t penetrate a 90 kg red deer stag, so i started using the LDM because of the better precision. Both bullets wont penetrate all the way between 0-200 yards. All game i shot so far including a 180kg red stag dropped immediately, so the penetration isn’t a big problem if you’re a good shooter.
Great vid.
Love this stuff and reminds me of the day someone forgot to put the wet blanket over the ballistic soap and spending hours cleaning it off the walls and test kit, but we did have nice clean soft hands when we finished.I think forget which bullet is used and just look at the wound cavity in the blocks, the left looks to me to have the bigger cavity, more material moved out and a bigger needed to do that. As for how far the go in is not much interest as it is that explosion/ jellying of organs that kills and,in most cases it has gone out the body by then anyway. Soap has one plus point the cavity stays and you can fill it with plaster of paris and save it but harder to cut with a .
The black particles in the block are from the gas compression/ignition. You can see in the slow mo that the charring shows up after the flash and at the same spot in the block.
Awesome job
Just because a bullet is a match bullet does not mean it's bad for hunting and just because something is sold as a hunting bullet doesn't mean it's a good hunting bullet. Would love to see more of these type comparisons. Again excellent job love the video.
Been hunting with match bullets for over 20 years, and they work just fine on medium game even in .224 cal. Shot placement is king.
The black is from the combustion in the ballistics gel not the table. The implosion gets the pressure so high that you have ignition. Easily seen on higher frame rate video, but even your video caputred the flash at 8:15. It's crazy to think about what is happening in the gel to make this happen.
ruclips.net/video/fX4ODh1g4eM/видео.html
When I hunt, I look at distance, conditions and desired effect as well as the targeted species. I like ballistic tips in most cases, but have been known to go with match under a few special conditions. One special condition can be the amount of interference, obstructions , in the bullets path prior to impact of target. Granted, if stand hunting you can pick your shot. When walking, you get what the conditions are as is.
Thank you for your demonstration. It helps confirm my opinion.
Your production quality of this test is excellent. Forget the hater comments, these test results were totally valid. It shows that the terminal performance of the two is incredibly similar. Similar depth to upset, similar temp stretch, similar weight retention, similar depth of penetration.
Maybe it’s not the direction you want your channel to go in but I’d love to see you compare other match bullets in the same category. Acubond long range, tipped matchking, bergers, terminal ascent. Would be neat to see their performance compared in a limited one against one comparison.
Possibly tested against each other at different velocities one at muzzle velocity like this and one loaded to 1800-2000. Some other channels do this but their production quality is pretty crap.
Thanks for putting this together! I'd like to see a downloaded round to sub 2200 fps, maybe 1800 if possible to compare terminal ballistics at a typical LR hunting engagement range where I would actually be using one of these over something like a Partition.
Yes yes yes. This is the best testing! Please more rifle head to head bullet testing!