I've never seen this as being an issue. I've been making tongs for myself for almost 10 years. I found Brian Brazeal and Mark Aspery to have the best tong videos where they demonstrate not only the traditional (Aspery) but a more user friendly (Brazeal) method. Both Brian and Mark advocate that the structure of the tongs is what is crucial and must be watched closely. Brian talks about how each element (bit/nib, boss, boss-rein transition, rein) is a taper, a two sided taper, a bar, or a bar-taper combination. He particularly addressed the fact that the boss needs to be a bar form that is thicker than the transition or the reins. This eliminates the binding that you're talking about. One of the things I appreciate most about Brian Brazeal's explanation is how to isolate material. Start on the near side and begin to break the material down but not all the way. Go to the far side, turn, and, as he says, swoop (45°) and then begin the boss. Again, do not forge to the finish section. Then define the rear of the boss after which he forges the taper from the boss into the reins. Then he proposes that you cycle through the elements several times to refine them, making the necessary changes you need. Until I saw Brian do this I was always taking each element too far, particularly the boss, and always ending up with a wonky set of tongs since every time you hit the boss either to refine or to correct lipage/lippage you thin it down. With a thin boss the structure of the transition and the reins must be commensurately thinner. Thanks for addressing this. Brian Brazeal: ruclips.net/video/CH980wjMyaM/видео.html Mark Aspery: ruclips.net/video/jp6lQ8fkrUU/видео.html
I love Brian Brazeal and tried his method several times starting off and had the exact problems he’s described here. Point being different strokes for different folks. Got to find what works for you
Glenn Wiebe i believe the issue is that we all pick up things and as specially at the start of learning some of us might have some natural hand eye coordination that allow us to properly use this method however some of us will not , he has another video that shows his method for beginners and also the method he prefers id be willing to bet he can do this method flawlessly at this point in career in 1 heat... efficient comes with practice , hes made these mistakes on purpose to illustrate the mistakes he had made as a beginner and how many other beginners make similar mistakes , and hes shown them how to correct these mistakes for those who make them.... any expert smith can Likly make tongs using anyone's method and be successful however the same does not apply to every beginner
Making these tongs is an excellent exercise. One that I am very glad I took the time to learn. The ability to isolate material for different sections, and to bring different areas up to a finished state together is also a great skill taught by these tongs and the added benefit of learning to draw out for the reigns or for those more advanced practising forge welding the reins on. It's not all that hard to make a pair of tongs that work (they wont be pretty, buy they will function) and as you use your tongs you will examine and learn what it is about them that requires improvement. As time goes on and you need more tongs you make more and learn from that. True you could go and buy a set of wolf jaw tongs as a first pair but if you are just starting out why not take the time to learn the skill of making tongs.
I like the traditional way in my opinion and I'll admit I had trouble starting out with it myself but making them the traditional way really helped my efficiency and Technic so much
Hello Roy you make it look so easy, I am a retired Joiner and this it with professional trades, in our own way we make it look easy. Please keep your videos coming, Best wishes , Geoff Lewis, Wales UK.
I agree 100%. Since I started using the method you taught in your Sept 5, 2017 video, I've had my tongs come out much better. In addition to having a nice parallel boss, the method of going from the bit then 180 degrees (instead of 90) and then back 90 degrees, helps me to get the proportions more accurately. If that doesn't make sense to readers, watch the Sept 5 video and it will.
Thanks Roy for sharing. I've always struggled with the boss when i first started making tongs this will most certainly help the begin beginning Smith. I have to say my tongs are looking really nice now after i started using your methods. Thanks again Roy. Have a blessed day.
I think your idea of making tongs is much easier than the traditional method, I have watched many videos on making tongs and have been a little put of by the methodology of making tongs. Once you explained an easier and improved way to do the traditional tongs, I will give it a go one day. Thanks for the video, it has help a heap.
I agree your flat bar tongs are easier for the beginner. I also believe the classic method makes a better smith. A large amount of my first year of forging was making my own tools. Once i was proficient at that, my other projects came out much better, with less effort. Kind of pay now or pay later. But sometimes beginners do need an easy pair of tongs. Good video.
I have just recently caught the Blacksmithing bug and needed a new pair of tongs and ran into this problem. i like how you went into depth on this and it has helped me alot! thanks for sharing this info, wish i had seen this before i made my first set of tongs. the tongs i made are funtional but could have been a lot better had I seen this first. very helpful!
Good tips and points here Roy, I admit I love making tongs this way, but let me admit I have had trouble at the start and can still have trouble If I don't pay attention. Yes getting that taper back is something you have to watch. I love that tip on setting down the shoulder bit to get it all flat back to the boss and the nibs, thanks for helping people so much.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us , ive yet to do this ive been putting it off ,but i guess once you've got it in your mindset and done a pair it will stick with you , cheers will definitely have a go now with some half inch square bar weathers rubbish here in wales UK so a good excuse to get in the shop ,
The way I managed to make acceptable bosses comea down to two crucial steps. Turn around your hammer when creating the boss and use the edge of your hammer to draw the reins. It should teach you how to be efficient and use your hammer correctly.
If you see older blacksmith tongs from like the midfle ages or the iron age and you see a lot of a different style of tongs ones that work a bit more like a pair of scissors
Good tip, but I wonder whether the hyperbole about “BAD” tongs is really warranted when the taper solution takes 30 seconds of flatting on the near edge, but the drama took something like 10 minutes. I’m a new smith, but I don’t see this being such a big issue. The peace of Christ be with you.
thanks Roy I have got to make a set in the near future will probably be a quick twist set but this was a good lesson for down the road have a great day.
What an incredible over complication of one of the most basic aspects of tong making. All so your hammer isn't at a slight angle behind the boss causing a slight taper?? eyeyaieye
Thanks for the video. I'm having a hard time with tongs. Maybe this extra step will help. I'll give it another try soon. Buying tongs, or tong blanks is not an option for me at this time. As for now I'm working with junk tongs that don't have a good grip.
Us beginners are not out here reading books lol. Were scouring hours and hours of RUclips Master smiths who have done it for 20+ years. The whole video boils down to clean your work up and dont stop mid process.
my first pair of tongs i welded together burnt my bare leg so bad i had blisters next set i made was that style and i used coil spring i gave up on it as nothing turned out that well boss was not right the jaw spun like you said i want to make tongs till i get them right your instructions help a lot roy
Where was this video awhile ago it is the missing link in tong making. My first pear worked out ok but not very well or to look at 😀 Thank you and God Bless Roy have a great weekend.
When you get really good at this you can make these real fast, it took me very long the first time but now it goes way faster. And I'm still improving. You can probably make the boss and the tong part in one heat if your good! M.T.B.
One heat tong blank. I haven't done it in a long time. It helps to have a big hammer (4-5 lb) and a nice heat. It's not only great practice but really wows anyone watching at a demo!
While I agree, that the problems you pointed out, are issues. I will also say that much of blacksmithing is going back and forth. This method of making tongs is not great for a beginner smith who just needs a set of tongs. However it is a great idea for a beginning Smith to make something that they can use, (as opposed to s-hooks, or something else)and mastering techniques that they need. Honestly if I have a beginner who needs a set of tongs, and that is the first thing they need and not the experience making them. I tell them to head to kens custom iron, and for $15 they have tongs. Short answer.. these type of tongs are about the journey, not the destination.
Not sure if you'll see this. But, I want to apologize for my comment. I didn't mean for it to come across like it did. Reading it now bothers me how rude it is. I haven't been smithing long enough to criticize anyone about anything they do. I still don't agree with you, but I was out of line for how I expressed it. Apologies.
+Christopher Craft apology accepted! Thank you for being man enough to be able to come back to the comment section and admit wrongs. You wouldn't believe how many people just spout off at me and never take the time to think about the person that's on the other side God bless you and thank you for the great comment.
That's what got to me. The fact that you're just trying to help those of us who don't know learn the tricks of the trade faster than you were able to. You certainly don't deserve a telephone tough guy throwing daggers at you. Whether you admit it or not sometimes words hurt and I WILL NOT be that guy. Thank you and God bless you as well.
5 mins in, you exaggerate every mistake one can make and it looks worse than most first sets of tongs I’ve seen. You even call out things that are not good, where you hammered it in ways you did not even mention as steps. So you did actions, and then call em out as problems? Well, don’t do em! Biggest issue I have with this video is actually that you step over the fact that people need to practise. And perhaps work with a teacher in stead of just a book or video. In stead of showing beginner mistakes versus the guidance, and how to fix it. You want them to go to another technique because you showed a poorly executed whatnot?
You've literally just revolutionised my entire life!
I've never seen this as being an issue. I've been making tongs for myself for almost 10 years. I found Brian Brazeal and Mark Aspery to have the best tong videos where they demonstrate not only the traditional (Aspery) but a more user friendly (Brazeal) method. Both Brian and Mark advocate that the structure of the tongs is what is crucial and must be watched closely. Brian talks about how each element (bit/nib, boss, boss-rein transition, rein) is a taper, a two sided taper, a bar, or a bar-taper combination. He particularly addressed the fact that the boss needs to be a bar form that is thicker than the transition or the reins. This eliminates the binding that you're talking about. One of the things I appreciate most about Brian Brazeal's explanation is how to isolate material. Start on the near side and begin to break the material down but not all the way. Go to the far side, turn, and, as he says, swoop (45°) and then begin the boss. Again, do not forge to the finish section. Then define the rear of the boss after which he forges the taper from the boss into the reins. Then he proposes that you cycle through the elements several times to refine them, making the necessary changes you need. Until I saw Brian do this I was always taking each element too far, particularly the boss, and always ending up with a wonky set of tongs since every time you hit the boss either to refine or to correct lipage/lippage you thin it down. With a thin boss the structure of the transition and the reins must be commensurately thinner. Thanks for addressing this.
Brian Brazeal: ruclips.net/video/CH980wjMyaM/видео.html
Mark Aspery: ruclips.net/video/jp6lQ8fkrUU/видео.html
Glenn Wiebe it also confuses me he says it's not a productive way to make tong Brian and Alec can pretty much make them one heat
Agreed. However, to each his own. Keep forging!
Yeah Glen I have followed these two ways for a long time, have picked up so much from the, love the way Brian explains what you mentioned above.
I love Brian Brazeal and tried his method several times starting off and had the exact problems he’s described here. Point being different strokes for different folks. Got to find what works for you
Glenn Wiebe i believe the issue is that we all pick up things and as specially at the start of learning some of us might have some natural hand eye coordination that allow us to properly use this method however some of us will not , he has another video that shows his method for beginners and also the method he prefers id be willing to bet he can do this method flawlessly at this point in career in 1 heat... efficient comes with practice , hes made these mistakes on purpose to illustrate the mistakes he had made as a beginner and how many other beginners make similar mistakes , and hes shown them how to correct these mistakes for those who make them.... any expert smith can Likly make tongs using anyone's method and be successful however the same does not apply to every beginner
Making these tongs is an excellent exercise. One that I am very glad I took the time to learn. The ability to isolate material for different sections, and to bring different areas up to a finished state together is also a great skill taught by these tongs and the added benefit of learning to draw out for the reigns or for those more advanced practising forge welding the reins on.
It's not all that hard to make a pair of tongs that work (they wont be pretty, buy they will function) and as you use your tongs you will examine and learn what it is about them that requires improvement. As time goes on and you need more tongs you make more and learn from that. True you could go and buy a set of wolf jaw tongs as a first pair but if you are just starting out why not take the time to learn the skill of making tongs.
I like the traditional way in my opinion and I'll admit I had trouble starting out with it myself but making them the traditional way really helped my efficiency and Technic so much
Hello Roy you make it look so easy, I am a retired Joiner and this it with professional trades, in our own way we make it look easy. Please keep your videos coming, Best wishes , Geoff Lewis, Wales UK.
With you Roy, struggled with my first few tongs, went from awful to just usable to
I agree 100%. Since I started using the method you taught in your Sept 5, 2017 video, I've had my tongs come out much better. In addition to having a nice parallel boss, the method of going from the bit then 180 degrees (instead of 90) and then back 90 degrees, helps me to get the proportions more accurately. If that doesn't make sense to readers, watch the Sept 5 video and it will.
Hoping them younger fellas out there pay close attention to this one as it would probably help plenty...again,thanks for doing what you do!
Thanks Roy for sharing. I've always struggled with the boss when i first started making tongs this will most certainly help the begin beginning Smith. I have to say my tongs are looking really nice now after i started using your methods. Thanks again Roy. Have a blessed day.
This is the method I use and it's the method I feel most comfortable with - been making all my own tongs for the past six years.
This helps, finally someone showed how to get the jaw offset to the straight/flat side of the boss area. Personally I will use the weld on method.
I think your idea of making tongs is much easier than the traditional method, I have watched many videos on making tongs and have been a little put of by the methodology of making tongs. Once you explained an easier and improved way to do the traditional tongs, I will give it a go one day. Thanks for the video, it has help a heap.
I agree your flat bar tongs are easier for the beginner. I also believe the classic method makes a better smith. A large amount of my first year of forging was making my own tools. Once i was proficient at that, my other projects came out much better, with less effort. Kind of pay now or pay later. But sometimes beginners do need an easy pair of tongs. Good video.
I have just recently caught the Blacksmithing bug and needed a new pair of tongs and ran into this problem. i like how you went into depth on this and it has helped me alot! thanks for sharing this info, wish i had seen this before i made my first set of tongs. the tongs i made are funtional but could have been a lot better had I seen this first. very helpful!
Great video. Was hoping to find one to explain fixing the boss
Heck yeah who doesn't like a good scarf. Nice and warm fuzzy scarf😁👍👍 great video always thanks Roy and Jessica
Lol this explains a lot about my first attempt at making tongs ... Thank you for the insight.
Good tips and points here Roy, I admit I love making tongs this way, but let me admit I have had trouble at the start and can still have trouble If I don't pay attention. Yes getting that taper back is something you have to watch. I love that tip on setting down the shoulder bit to get it all flat back to the boss and the nibs, thanks for helping people so much.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us , ive yet to do this ive been putting it off ,but i guess once you've got it in your mindset and done a pair it will stick with you , cheers will definitely have a go now with some half inch square bar weathers rubbish here in wales UK so a good excuse to get in the shop ,
The way I managed to make acceptable bosses comea down to two crucial steps. Turn around your hammer when creating the boss and use the edge of your hammer to draw the reins. It should teach you how to be efficient and use your hammer correctly.
That was extremely helpful explanation as I was struggling with that exact issue recently. Needleas to say I will try again Thank you Roy!
If you see older blacksmith tongs from like the midfle ages or the iron age and you see a lot of a different style of tongs ones that work a bit more like a pair of scissors
Good tip, but I wonder whether the hyperbole about “BAD” tongs is really warranted when the taper solution takes 30 seconds of flatting on the near edge, but the drama took something like 10 minutes. I’m a new smith, but I don’t see this being such a big issue.
The peace of Christ be with you.
Brand new to blacksmithing. Ran into this exact issue. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks for this video. As someone who has made a few sets of ..... imperfect.... tongs it was really useful.
thanks Roy I have got to make a set in the near future will probably be a quick twist set but this was a good lesson for down the road have a great day.
What an incredible over complication of one of the most basic aspects of tong making. All so your hammer isn't at a slight angle behind the boss causing a slight taper?? eyeyaieye
Thanks for the video. I'm having a hard time with tongs. Maybe this extra step will help. I'll give it another try soon. Buying tongs, or tong blanks is not an option for me at this time. As for now I'm working with junk tongs that don't have a good grip.
Us beginners are not out here reading books lol. Were scouring hours and hours of RUclips Master smiths who have done it for 20+ years. The whole video boils down to clean your work up and dont stop mid process.
my first pair of tongs i welded together burnt my bare leg so bad i had blisters next set i made was that style and i used coil spring i gave up on it as nothing turned out that well boss was not right the jaw spun like you said i want to make tongs till i get them right your instructions help a lot roy
Where was this video awhile ago it is the missing link in tong making. My first pear worked out ok but not very well or to look at 😀
Thank you and God Bless Roy have a great weekend.
Great vid. Ive been having these problems
Dude... Thank you
Roy I think that your method better. Thanks
Great info especially about what not to do
little late to the party,, Roy thanks ,, your vids are great tutorials
When you get really good at this you can make these real fast, it took me very long the first time but now it goes way faster. And I'm still improving. You can probably make the boss and the tong part in one heat if your good!
M.T.B.
One heat tong blank. I haven't done it in a long time. It helps to have a big hammer (4-5 lb) and a nice heat. It's not only great practice but really wows anyone watching at a demo!
Yeah one heat tong blank, did one the other day for a friend, I think it worked out ok, Brian Brazeal does a good one.
Thanks for the info Roy
Thank you for the video. How about you draw one side of the tong the way you do it? That would be great.
This is the way I have made all my tongs and have never had a problem.
Thankyou
While I agree, that the problems you pointed out, are issues. I will also say that much of blacksmithing is going back and forth. This method of making tongs is not great for a beginner smith who just needs a set of tongs. However it is a great idea for a beginning Smith to make something that they can use, (as opposed to s-hooks, or something else)and mastering techniques that they need. Honestly if I have a beginner who needs a set of tongs, and that is the first thing they need and not the experience making them. I tell them to head to kens custom iron, and for $15 they have tongs. Short answer.. these type of tongs are about the journey, not the destination.
good info a little long-winded on the video.
Hay Roy Nice video. I have sent you a message on instergram would you have a look at it please?
I completely disagree with you on this. Just looked like you did a great job at making a very poor tong blank and then pointed out all your mistakes.
+Christopher Craft I'm glad you disagree thank you for pointing out your opinion :-) God bless you and you have a great evening
Thanks, I still like your channel. But on this we'll have to agree to disagree. God bless you as well.
Not sure if you'll see this. But, I want to apologize for my comment. I didn't mean for it to come across like it did. Reading it now bothers me how rude it is. I haven't been smithing long enough to criticize anyone about anything they do. I still don't agree with you, but I was out of line for how I expressed it. Apologies.
+Christopher Craft apology accepted! Thank you for being man enough to be able to come back to the comment section and admit wrongs. You wouldn't believe how many people just spout off at me and never take the time to think about the person that's on the other side God bless you and thank you for the great comment.
That's what got to me. The fact that you're just trying to help those of us who don't know learn the tricks of the trade faster than you were able to. You certainly don't deserve a telephone tough guy throwing daggers at you. Whether you admit it or not sometimes words hurt and I WILL NOT be that guy. Thank you and God bless you as well.
Learn by forging tools properly. then you will be able to make just about anything else
angle is wrong
Nope
5 mins in, you exaggerate every mistake one can make and it looks worse than most first sets of tongs I’ve seen.
You even call out things that are not good, where you hammered it in ways you did not even mention as steps. So you did actions, and then call em out as problems? Well, don’t do em!
Biggest issue I have with this video is actually that you step over the fact that people need to practise. And perhaps work with a teacher in stead of just a book or video.
In stead of showing beginner mistakes versus the guidance, and how to fix it. You want them to go to another technique because you showed a poorly executed whatnot?
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