Thanks for this important information Jay. In my days as a prosecutor we had a case in which a group from eastern europe ran fraudulent websites selling luxury cars-which did not exist-massive fraud which brought in millions. I know nothing about TL Electronics-I'm not suggesting whether its legitimate or not-I don't know. I am saying its vital to know who you are dealing with-trust but verify and remember about deals too good to be true. Thanks Jay.
Even without it being a scam, I would reconsider buying a Boulder product if one of their expensive amps has needed to be repaired twice in only 3 years.
look inside boulder flagships - all tiny surface mount components and the boards made by pick and place robots for a pittance . Then look inside Dan D'Agostino flagship monoblocks
My two takeaways: If a deal seems to good to be true, it is. Always pay with a credit card. The card companies will work with you to get your money back. Thanks, Jay for always keeping it real.
As an audiophile for quite a few years I've had some very good fortune when buying audio gear. I've purchased quite a few pieces of equipment for sometimes thousands of dollars under retail by diligently shopping around. The one thing I have avoided is doing any kind of a bank transfer or cash deal. Always paid either PayPal or by credit card. Also I didn't know that if you cancel an order or receive anything you didn't order that you can by law, keep it free of charge. I didn't know that prior to cancelling an order for a set of speakers and receiving them anyway a month later. I did get scammed by an audio dealer in Monterey California once. He charged me way over the new retail price for basically used equipment. Live and learn.
Knowing your people is Everything Jay, the Technical Term is Held in Abatement when using Cards! I forgot AmX had full Protection! Thanks for the reminder!💯💪
Hi Jay, I note from the company’s website that they claim to have a warehouse in Dublin, Ireland. I’m a lifelong Irish audiophile with knowledge of the high end scene here and I’ve never heard of this company. I can tell you that the EU do have strict money laundering checks on all financial transactions over 10,000 euros/GB pounds. Such transactions will go through the system. If you want me to check the legitimacy of this company, I can check further.
It should be noted that there are many legitimate European hifi dealers who do right by their customers. I recently purchased a $4700USD pair of Arendal speakers, a Norwegian company. The speakers (110lb each) arrived in Australia 10 days later. They have a 60 trial period where you can return them at Arendal's expense for a full refund. Given the high sound and build quality, I doubt they have many returns.
@@perfectsense8290 The price I paid included shipping and customs duties although I did have to pay for currency conversion (Arendal use USD for outside the EU). They state they give full refund including return shipping costs. That said, they would rarely need to as the build and sound quality exceeds many speakers that cost 2 or 3 times as much.
Who doesn't know to call the credit card company? My ex wife sent $17,500 to a guy on ebay for a boat without even seeing it first, just pictures. She drove 12 hours to pick it up and when she got to the address it was an empty lot, no boat, no business, no house, just dirt and weeds. I had to chuckle. Thank goodness she left me.
2 things to take away from this. The man was astute using a credit card, though it somewhat puzzles me that a man in his 60s with evidently a substantial credit limit on his AMEX card was unaware of the inherent insurance protection. Secondly, I would have serious reservations about purchasing a product manufactured in 2021 with a retail value of 70000 which had already been returned twice for repair. That would trigger major alarm bells for me. Ny hi-fi rig is filled with components with an average retail value of 13500 per component. Even though I’ve had many of those components for more years than I care to mention, non of them have ever become defective or needed to be repaired. I did send a 25 year amp back to the manufacturer to be refurbished. It was functioning fine, but I guessed that after 25 years it would benefit from being recapped. I was right and that only cost me 385!
@Jay you should offer a service to help buyers with audio dealers. something like speaking with the dealer on behalf of your client. That would be a big relief for the buyer and people know you have a big platform on RUclips! Just having that peace of mind would be totally worth the service fee!
The scam thing is easy to understand, they're obviously all over the internet. What's difficult to understand is how someone in their 60's doesn't know they can call their credit card company to get assistance. I'm glad he came out ok, but I hope he's better than this with his money if he's going to retire as you said.
I had a chat with them time ago about a Boulder amp… a 4060 stereo amplifier… Price was too good to be true so I didn’t but it …So it smelled fishy but the guy on the other side seemed knowledgeable .. I guess these guys are professionals, they know how to scam you
I have a couple of power outlets left at $100,000 each cheap. If you want one, I will be at the golf course at Mar a Lago at 1.00 AM tomorrow night. Whistle when you approach
TL-Electronics list three addresses on their website. Their UK office (with no street number) is located in a suburban street so are they operating from a private home? Their German office address leads to a commercial storage building. Their Irish address (with no street number) leads to a commercial estate in Dublin but none of the business names/products match with audio equipment.
Anybody paying $27k for an amp ... IS being scammed... period. Let's not even talk about the actual prices of brands like that.... for people without functional brains only. It's build in 2021 and repaired twice ?? ... for an AMP .... zero quality.
Hi Jay from the UK 🇬🇧. We have alot of "Dealers", some on ebay, selling Chinese clones. The clones look identical because they are stock photos. They're always considerably cheaper than the genuine Equipment. If a deal looks too good to be true...99.9% of the time it is. Be warned that these "Dealers" also have legit websites.
I have no sympathy with people who buy equipment with High Ticket prices on line. You havent seen or heard the thing . Go to a shop , ensure the product is physically in stock . Boulders a rip off anyway & I have heard it at exhibitions
I would never buy anything onlline ... Never. Back in the day in the 80s when I used to buy car stereo from alpine nakamuchi JBL subs Rockford fosgate. Amps I want to see them roll them out in the boxes or wood crates for the subs in my car truck bed be there. In person etc back then there was no internet ...
There's nothing wrong with online purchases. Last year, I bought a Constellation Pictor Preamp, brand new and in the box. Got it for $11,025($18k). Kept it for two weeks and sold it to a friend.
If you have that kind of money to throw around on audio gear you would think you would have some decent understanding of Credit cards and the protections that come along with them. Especially AMEX.
Well at those prices, to me the word scam becomes meaningless. The issue i see here. Y'all have big balls to just online , spend that type of coin. And the amp was repaired twice? That in itself seems to be a lemon
This may be good info for some of the subscribers but it’s common sense for me. Also, I’d never be in Thai situation because I wouldn’t be in the market for a $27k used preamp 😎.
Why would anyone buy an item that’s already been back for repairs twice in 3 years. You’re just buying problems. Get yourself an Accuphase which will last you a lifetime.
Don''t forget this is a $78,000 piece of gear needing repair twice in it's young existence. I've owned a lot of gear in my lifetime, never paid anywhere near that for a single piece of gear but if I did I wouldn't expect it would EVER need repair, let alone twice early on. That's not a well engineered piece of equipment.
the real scam is the product, 40 grand mrsp and repaired twice. a dac with 4V outputs and volume control for a few hundred dollars has near perfect performance as data shows, what audiophiles believe does no matter, their sound quality is high distortion, noise and changes in FR. nothing else.
@@jaysaudiolab ok prove it? none of these boutique high-end products performe any better than chinese smsl/topping budget. how you feel about it doesnt matter. for example claiming that a product is "better" when it has 100x times higher distortion makes no sense. also research on placebo is something all hifi youtubers should do.
Well, you have to remember that the amplifier in question was used and not new. I think the person who deserves zero sympathy is the scammer that tried to scam him.
a good salesperson you know and trust is worth a million dollars my local store unfortunately closed down but i brought through them for more than ten years and colin said you can skin a sheep once or you can shear it for life when there were problems he had the mobile number of every tech for every brand they sold and the problem was always sorted quickly and no they were"nt the cheapest but their customer sevice was worth more to me than any discount and like numerous other commenters have said if it sounds too good to be true it is
Thanks for this important information Jay. In my days as a prosecutor we had a case in which a group from eastern europe ran fraudulent websites selling luxury cars-which did not exist-massive fraud which brought in millions. I know nothing about TL Electronics-I'm not suggesting whether its legitimate or not-I don't know. I am saying its vital to know who you are dealing with-trust but verify and remember about deals too good to be true. Thanks Jay.
I can't believe it. I'm so sorry that there are scamming pseudotributors. I am so sorry Jay.
Even without it being a scam, I would reconsider buying a Boulder product if one of their expensive amps has needed to be repaired twice in only 3 years.
Ummm
look inside boulder flagships - all tiny surface mount components and the boards made by pick and place robots for a pittance . Then look inside Dan D'Agostino flagship monoblocks
OOOOW don't upset Boulder boy !!!
Jay, thank you for this important information to warn people.
My pleasure!
My two takeaways:
If a deal seems to good to be true, it is.
Always pay with a credit card. The card companies will work with you to get your money back.
Thanks, Jay for always keeping it real.
I appreciate this, thank you. You have a new subscriber.
Welcome aboard!
As an audiophile for quite a few years I've had some very good fortune when buying audio gear. I've purchased quite a few pieces of equipment for sometimes thousands of dollars under retail by diligently shopping around. The one thing I have avoided is doing any kind of a bank transfer or cash deal. Always paid either PayPal or by credit card. Also I didn't know that if you cancel an order or receive anything you didn't order that you can by law, keep it free of charge. I didn't know that prior to cancelling an order for a set of speakers and receiving them anyway a month later. I did get scammed by an audio dealer in Monterey California once. He charged me way over the new retail price for basically used equipment. Live and learn.
If you can afford to spend 25,000 on a pre-amp, you can afford a baseball bat and a return ticket to the UK. :)
Lol 😂
Get the bookies
Here's a new career opportunity for Jay. "Audio Deadpool"
this man is the biggest tool ive ever seen
In what way?
thanks for sharing the story, I am a Canadian Dealer and find myself fending off scammers trying to buy gear with stolen cards or paypal....
Knowing your people is Everything Jay, the Technical Term is Held in Abatement when using Cards! I forgot AmX had full Protection! Thanks for the reminder!💯💪
You got it!
Heads up is priceless, thanx bro!!!
Hi Jay,
I note from the company’s website that they claim to have a warehouse in Dublin, Ireland. I’m a lifelong Irish audiophile with knowledge of the high end scene here and I’ve never heard of this company. I can tell you that the EU do have strict money laundering checks on all financial transactions over 10,000 euros/GB pounds. Such transactions will go through the system. If you want me to check the legitimacy of this company, I can check further.
It should be noted that there are many legitimate European hifi dealers who do right by their customers. I recently purchased a $4700USD pair of Arendal speakers, a Norwegian company. The speakers (110lb each) arrived in Australia 10 days later. They have a 60 trial period where you can return them at Arendal's expense for a full refund. Given the high sound and build quality, I doubt they have many returns.
Do Arendal cover all shipping costs, duties etc. forth and potentially back from Australia to Norway?
@@perfectsense8290 The price I paid included shipping and customs duties although I did have to pay for currency conversion (Arendal use USD for outside the EU). They state they give full refund including return shipping costs. That said, they would rarely need to as the build and sound quality exceeds many speakers that cost 2 or 3 times as much.
Glad to hear you had a good experience!
Who doesn't know to call the credit card company? My ex wife sent $17,500 to a guy on ebay for a boat without even seeing it first, just pictures. She drove 12 hours to pick it up and when she got to the address it was an empty lot, no boat, no business, no house, just dirt and weeds. I had to chuckle. Thank goodness she left me.
Omg lol
I got scammed too from buying cables and interconnects....
From who?
2 things to take away from this. The man was astute using a credit card, though it somewhat puzzles me that a man in his 60s with evidently a substantial credit limit on his AMEX card was unaware of the inherent insurance protection.
Secondly, I would have serious reservations about purchasing a product manufactured in 2021 with a retail value of 70000 which had already been returned twice for repair. That would trigger major alarm bells for me.
Ny hi-fi rig is filled with components with an average retail value of 13500 per component. Even though I’ve had many of those components for more years than I care to mention, non of them have ever become defective or needed to be repaired. I did send a 25 year amp back to the manufacturer to be refurbished. It was functioning fine, but I guessed that after 25 years it would benefit from being recapped. I was right and that only cost me 385!
@Jay you should offer a service to help buyers with audio dealers. something like speaking with the dealer on behalf of your client. That would be a big relief for the buyer and people know you have a big platform on RUclips! Just having that peace of mind would be totally worth the service fee!
This is why u paid with credit card. I am surprised the buyer does not know this.
Who has this amount of credit on your cc card, only the rich have this kind of credit
My god these audio types are nuts! We so desperately need The Audio Critic these days.
Never use paypal.
Thanks for the info and kudos for your assistance to this scammed audiophile.
My pleasure!
So if he payed with a credit card he has no worries. He s covered and will easily get his money back. No worries here
The scam thing is easy to understand, they're obviously all over the internet. What's difficult to understand is how someone in their 60's doesn't know they can call their credit card company to get assistance. I'm glad he came out ok, but I hope he's better than this with his money if he's going to retire as you said.
So many red flags. Not much sympathy for the BUYER!
If it is too good to be true.......so sorry this happened.
I had a chat with them time ago about a Boulder amp… a 4060 stereo amplifier… Price was too good to be true so I didn’t but it …So it smelled fishy but the guy on the other side seemed knowledgeable .. I guess these guys are professionals, they know how to scam you
Hey Jay, I'm already a subscriber, but this video is a well-earned thumbs up 👍 from me!
Anyone paying 60-70k for hi-fi components can't be too smart to begin with.
I have a couple of power outlets left at $100,000 each cheap. If you want one, I will be at the golf course at Mar a Lago at 1.00 AM tomorrow night. Whistle when you approach
I'm certainly sorry for the gentleman who got scammed but the real scam is an audio preamp product costing that much.
@@paulgyro,
How much should one cost?
TL-Electronics list three addresses on their website. Their UK office (with no street number) is located in a suburban street so are they operating from a private home? Their German office address leads to a commercial storage building. Their Irish address (with no street number) leads to a commercial estate in Dublin but none of the business names/products match with audio equipment.
Never WIRE anything to someone you do not know and trust. Always use a credit card so you can dispute the charge within 90 days !
A quick check at the UK's Company House shows they are registered there but only had a turnover of
He didn't get scammed if he got his money back, and if the amp was second hand then it seems reasonable ro consider the price will be less than RRP
Only buy from authorised dealers, they manufacturer will have a list of dealers per region
Maybe you can sell him the amplifier stands for 18k.
Yea
Anybody paying $27k for an amp ... IS being scammed... period.
Let's not even talk about the actual prices of brands like that.... for people without functional brains only.
It's build in 2021 and repaired twice ?? ... for an AMP .... zero quality.
Hi Jay from the UK 🇬🇧. We have alot of "Dealers", some on ebay, selling Chinese clones. The clones look identical because they are stock photos. They're always considerably cheaper than the genuine Equipment. If a deal looks too good to be true...99.9% of the time it is. Be warned that these "Dealers" also have legit websites.
I have no sympathy with people who buy equipment with High Ticket prices on line. You havent seen or heard the thing . Go to a shop , ensure the product is physically in stock . Boulders a rip off anyway & I have heard it at exhibitions
Is MusicDirect a reputable dealer for Amps?
Music Direct is pretty good.
@bkatbamna Thanks
YES.
Didn't we see this video a day or two ago?
I would never buy anything onlline ... Never. Back in the day in the 80s when I used to buy car stereo from alpine nakamuchi JBL subs Rockford fosgate. Amps I want to see them roll them out in the boxes or wood crates for the subs in my car truck bed be there. In person etc back then there was no internet ...
There's nothing wrong with online purchases. Last year, I bought a Constellation Pictor Preamp, brand new and in the box. Got it for $11,025($18k). Kept it for two weeks and sold it to a friend.
I understand, but sometimes that's just not possible.
If you have that kind of money to throw around on audio gear you would think you would have some decent understanding of Credit cards and the protections that come along with them. Especially AMEX.
Simple, don't buy expensive stuff from overseas .
That’s why I buy all my gear through amazon 😵💫😵💫😵💫🤣
Well at those prices, to me the word scam becomes meaningless. The issue i see here. Y'all have big balls to just online , spend that type of coin.
And the amp was repaired twice? That in itself seems to be a lemon
Meanwhile, in Ft Lauderdale 😮
This may be good info for some of the subscribers but it’s common sense for me. Also, I’d never be in Thai situation because I wouldn’t be in the market for a $27k used preamp 😎.
It has to be George Lopez 😂
I spend 50 grand, it must sound 50 grand better
Why would anyone buy an item that’s already been back for repairs twice in 3 years. You’re just buying problems. Get yourself an Accuphase which will last you a lifetime.
Accuphase isn’t at the level of Boulder. Sorry
@ They are different, that’s for sure. My Accuphase system meets all of my needs and should outlast me.
Don''t forget this is a $78,000 piece of gear needing repair twice in it's young existence. I've owned a lot of gear in my lifetime, never paid anywhere near that for a single piece of gear but if I did I wouldn't expect it would EVER need repair, let alone twice early on. That's not a well engineered piece of equipment.
the real scam is the product, 40 grand mrsp and repaired twice. a dac with 4V outputs and volume control for a few hundred dollars has near perfect performance as data shows, what audiophiles believe does no matter, their sound quality is high distortion, noise and changes in FR. nothing else.
Wholeheartly agree!
No man - no dac can perform at the level of world class preamps
@@jaysaudiolab ok prove it? none of these boutique high-end products performe any better than chinese smsl/topping budget. how you feel about it doesnt matter. for example claiming that a product is "better" when it has 100x times higher distortion makes no sense. also research on placebo is something all hifi youtubers should do.
Audiophool boomers
Jay sure has some idiots on his channel and I'm not talking about the guy that got scammed!
Huh
The buyer got burned because he was trying to get a deal that’s too good to be true. He’s an idiot and I have zero sympathy for him.
Well, you have to remember that the amplifier in question was used and not new. I think the person who deserves zero sympathy is the scammer that tried to scam him.
Ok
You are not right , there are honest european companies, who working fine.
Anyone spending 70 grand on audio equipment probably deserves to get scammed
Exactly what I was thinking...zero sense.
I spent 1 million lol
a good salesperson you know and trust is worth a million dollars my local store unfortunately closed down but i brought through them for more than ten years and colin said you can skin a sheep once or you can shear it for life when there were problems he had the mobile number of every tech for every brand they sold and the problem was always sorted quickly and no they were"nt the cheapest but their customer sevice was worth more to me than any discount and like numerous other commenters have said if it sounds too good to be true it is