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Personally, as the GM I would have had the dog (in the final example) stop and attack the OTHER goblin. I’m just not sure the dog would distinguish between one or the other goblin. Maybe if the dog had been with the PC longer and trained in battle a bit more with the PC the judgement would have gone as your example played out. Either way, enjoying the videos
The idea that it's easier to command a very frightened dog to attack the thing it's afraid of than to command a less or non frightened dog to attack the same target, all else being equal, is. . . counterintuitive at best.
In my opinion, I would rule that a guard dog would have training like the warhorse. I mean... it's a GUARD dog... what's the point of buying a guard dog if it just runs away? LOL Regardless, great examples.
@@HowItsPlayed The rule as written specifically says most animals behave this way, but not all, so even RAW, space is created to say that not all animals follow the rule where they panic at the start of combat. So the GM certainly has space to say the guard dog is trained enough to not panic. Additionally, one could act like in PF1e, where an animal had to learn the attack trick to get an animal to attack on command, and then learn attack any target as a second trick to get it to go after unnatural creatures. The dog first has to be trained for combat, then it has to be trained to be willing to face a supernatural threat.
@Basics4Gamers Does this work the same for horses? If the players rented horses for travel and were ambushed on the road, would they need to spend actions each turn to keep their horses from running off with or without them mounted?
Yes, it mostly works the same. Warhorses, Warponies, and other mounts trained for combat are immune to the panic. But other mounts will panic at the start of combat. At the GM's discretion they might also attempt to kick the rider off them (see the Buck reaction in the mount's stat block).
I know it's been quite some time since this video, but there is this one point I'm having trouble with as a future GM: if not commanded an animal still has 3 action to use, an it feels weird that they would just not use them. For frightened animal I could conceive they cower unless otherwise commanded, but for combat trained animal wouldn't they just fight whatever they perceive as an enemy without you having to give command unless you want to choose the target and make them move to a specific place?
Boning up on my animal friend rules since My Group is leaving 5e because...well...you know. *laughs* I am so excited, Mmmmmm i finally get to PLAY some pathfinder, woot
Happywolf one check per pet per action (unless it is a minion like an animal companion or familiar, then it is 1 command action without a check which gives two actions for the minion)
Thanks for the great vids. Enjoying your content. Have to say I disagree with your interpretation on this one though. I don’t think that frightened condition lowers the nature check harssk is making (at least I don’t believe that is the intention here anyway). It should only lower dc’s like saves and AC, class dc (for things like breath weapons etc.). Effectively making the creature less effective in combat. I think raw is definitely not clear and this will likely be errata’ed at some point. RAI... frightened condition should not make it easier for people to handle an animal. It should make that animal more susceptible to being demoralized. It should make it easier to hit with attacks since it is not able to defend itself properly (I suppose a simular argument can be made about spell saves here, but it is a bit awkward admittedly). It should make it less effective with its innate abikities that require a dc (as it can’t effectively aim its breath weapon while shuttering in fear etc etc). If anything, in this situation, it should probably read that any beneficial actions or activities targeting the frightened creature that requires a character to succeed at a dc based on the targets skills or creature level should increase said DC by the frightened value. My two cents. A frightened and fleeing animal should not be easier to handle than it would be in normal circumstances. Animals (non minion) were awkward in the play test and aren’t much better in release.
@@freeadvice1695 I don't disagree with you, and questioned that as well. But as far as I can tell, until there is errata, the RAW says the frightened condition lowers "all DCs". So, that would include the animal's Will DC. But I agree... I would expect it to be harder to tell a frightened animal to attack something it's afraid of than easier.
Yeah, that's strange. Seems as if it should raise the DC for the command action to 18 to get it to listen instead of lowering it to 10. To your point, I imagine it would be harder to command a frightened animal rather than easier.
@@Kevlar-78 I think it's just for simplicity. It's easier to just say "lower all DCs", but remember it also says that the GM can adjust the DC any way they see fit to suit the situation. So if you're commanding the animal to move away from danger, you do it as RAW, but if you want to command them to move towards danger the GM is within their right to increase the DC as they believe is appropriate.
See here for more great videos on Pathfinder: ruclips.net/p/PLYCDCUfG0xJb5I-wDIezuDkTfbd8k21Km
Want to help support the channel?
Get you name listed at the end of my videos by joining my Patreon :
▶️ www.patreon.com/HowItsPlayed/
Thank me with a cup of coffee!
▶️ ko-fi.com/HowItsPlayed
Personally, as the GM I would have had the dog (in the final example) stop and attack the OTHER goblin. I’m just not sure the dog would distinguish between one or the other goblin. Maybe if the dog had been with the PC longer and trained in battle a bit more with the PC the judgement would have gone as your example played out. Either way, enjoying the videos
The idea that it's easier to command a very frightened dog to attack the thing it's afraid of than to command a less or non frightened dog to attack the same target, all else being equal, is. . . counterintuitive at best.
I have ruled that when commanding a frightened animal, the condition raises the DC of the command in question.
These example videos are extremely helpful!
In my opinion, I would rule that a guard dog would have training like the warhorse. I mean... it's a GUARD dog... what's the point of buying a guard dog if it just runs away? LOL Regardless, great examples.
Valid point! :)
@@HowItsPlayed The rule as written specifically says most animals behave this way, but not all, so even RAW, space is created to say that not all animals follow the rule where they panic at the start of combat. So the GM certainly has space to say the guard dog is trained enough to not panic.
Additionally, one could act like in PF1e, where an animal had to learn the attack trick to get an animal to attack on command, and then learn attack any target as a second trick to get it to go after unnatural creatures. The dog first has to be trained for combat, then it has to be trained to be willing to face a supernatural threat.
@Basics4Gamers Does this work the same for horses? If the players rented horses for travel and were ambushed on the road, would they need to spend actions each turn to keep their horses from running off with or without them mounted?
Yes, it mostly works the same. Warhorses, Warponies, and other mounts trained for combat are immune to the panic. But other mounts will panic at the start of combat.
At the GM's discretion they might also attempt to kick the rider off them (see the Buck reaction in the mount's stat block).
Commenting for animal. Very helpful, thanks!
Why is the dog, which is theoretically trained, not considered with the "minion" trait since it belongs to Harsk?
For an animal to have the minion trait, it needs to be an Animal Companion (and cost the appropriate feat).
I know it's been quite some time since this video, but there is this one point I'm having trouble with as a future GM: if not commanded an animal still has 3 action to use, an it feels weird that they would just not use them.
For frightened animal I could conceive they cower unless otherwise commanded, but for combat trained animal wouldn't they just fight whatever they perceive as an enemy without you having to give command unless you want to choose the target and make them move to a specific place?
Boning up on my animal friend rules since My Group is leaving 5e because...well...you know. *laughs*
I am so excited, Mmmmmm i finally get to PLAY some pathfinder, woot
I do not get this at all, an animal being Frightened makes it easier to command/handle?
By RAW, yes. But I agree -- that sounds a bit odd. Of course, GMs are always allowed to modify DCs as they feel is appropriate.
Do animal companions, animal familiars or summoned animals suffer from the same frightened 4 and the fleeing condition in combat?
No on all accounts because they have the Minion trait. Stay tuned for videos covering Animal Companions and Familiars. :)
@@HowItsPlayed Thanks for the reply and wonderful videos, keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing how minions negates those conditions.
Note: This doen't apply to animal companions or familiars at all.
Correct! Thanks for pointing that out. I have videos about Animal Companions and Familiars coming soon.
So, the more frightened an animal is, the more easily you can control it? That seems counter-intuitive.
True. By RAW that's the way it works just for simplicity, but the GM is always empowered to do whatever makes the most sense.
"Goblin hate dog and fire arrow at it"
-No! Not the doggy! 😢
A dog not bullying goblins? Bah, violation of the fluff.
Pathfinder goblins should be terrified of dogs and horses and bullied by them.
This is a very valid point.
How does it work if you got 2 or more pets? 1 check for them all? 🤔
Happywolf one check per pet per action (unless it is a minion like an animal companion or familiar, then it is 1 command action without a check which gives two actions for the minion)
Thanks for the great vids. Enjoying your content. Have to say I disagree with your interpretation on this one though.
I don’t think that frightened condition lowers the nature check harssk is making (at least I don’t believe that is the intention here anyway). It should only lower dc’s like saves and AC, class dc (for things like breath weapons etc.). Effectively making the creature less effective in combat.
I think raw is definitely not clear and this will likely be errata’ed at some point. RAI... frightened condition should not make it easier for people to handle an animal. It should make that animal more susceptible to being demoralized. It should make it easier to hit with attacks since it is not able to defend itself properly (I suppose a simular argument can be made about spell saves here, but it is a bit awkward admittedly). It should make it less effective with its innate abikities that require a dc (as it can’t effectively aim its breath weapon while shuttering in fear etc etc).
If anything, in this situation, it should probably read that any beneficial actions or activities targeting the frightened creature that requires a character to succeed at a dc based on the targets skills or creature level should increase said DC by the frightened value.
My two cents. A frightened and fleeing animal should not be easier to handle than it would be in normal circumstances.
Animals (non minion) were awkward in the play test and aren’t much better in release.
@@freeadvice1695 I don't disagree with you, and questioned that as well. But as far as I can tell, until there is errata, the RAW says the frightened condition lowers "all DCs". So, that would include the animal's Will DC. But I agree... I would expect it to be harder to tell a frightened animal to attack something it's afraid of than easier.
Yeah, that's strange. Seems as if it should raise the DC for the command action to 18 to get it to listen instead of lowering it to 10. To your point, I imagine it would be harder to command a frightened animal rather than easier.
@@Kevlar-78 I think it's just for simplicity. It's easier to just say "lower all DCs", but remember it also says that the GM can adjust the DC any way they see fit to suit the situation. So if you're commanding the animal to move away from danger, you do it as RAW, but if you want to command them to move towards danger the GM is within their right to increase the DC as they believe is appropriate.
What da dawg doin?