PRO vs. DIY | Is my laser beam dump any good?
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2022
- Is my homebuilt laser beam dump any good compared to an expensive professional model? Or can I improve it by 3D printing a holder for a variable aperture? Let's find out!
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One thing to keep in mind is that the pro model is a lot more compact. That’s probably a major factor for lab use
Yes, area on an optical table is extremely valuable, so that may be the main reason it is so tiny. I just think its shallow depth lowers its performance a lot. I usually have enough space for the homebuilt - a luxury ;) Just need to buy a lab jack to make it height adjustable. I like that feature on the pro model... Thanks for watching!
It might also be built with a slightly different purpose in mind. For the diy one the goal is for the beam to be stopped without burning something and to stop loght from escaping, but with the pro beam dump the intended purpose may only be to stop the beam from burning a backstop.
Both units probably behave similarly when the beam is perfectly on-axis, with the diy version performing well even when that's not the case. In a proper optical table setup you would likely have nearly perfect alignment, so the off-axis performance of the pro version wouldn't be an issue, but the compact size would be a major advantage. So - pro version on the optical table, and diy on the bench. :D
more compact, but that is usually a result of being made in a factory to specification verses something that you make out of every day parts you find at home. Either way, the costs involved are probably the same.
how small is your lab for that to be major factor tho ?
While the DIY dump is larger, the fact that it's more consistent seems to make it the clear winner in my book. For the price, the pro model should use a more matte coating, especially on the internal ridges.
Yeah, maybe it's "good enough" but seriously, come on. It's $200 and they couldn't do better than shiny black?
I think if you needed the surface to be really matte you could smoke it with an alcohol lamp. That coating will be fragile but it's inside a closed container so probably fine.
I wonder if a vanta black would work
@Lance Shelby vanta black paint is very flammable (not to mention stupidly impossible to get lol) I wouldn't trust it
Man, I love lasers. I wish in my younger years I (and sellers) had taken safety more seriously. Due to the use of high powered lasers and no glasses, I have permanent shadows in parts of my vision. It isn't that bad, I got lucky, but if I move my eyes across the sky or a solid colour wall I see them. Makes me a little paranoid now to trust using some of the highest powered ones I have now, even with glasses. A beam dump would definitely have been a handy tool to have when messing around to prevent some of the reflections that can still be hazardous. Great video as always!
I assume it is best to use the darkest colour paint inside with the highest light absorbing properties? Would be interesting to see tests done with different types of internal paint. Use some of the blackest black paint you can get and see how that affects spill.
Surprising how shiny the internal coating of the pro model is. I feel like that's just a cost cutting measure. They just use the same paint on the inside and outside. For $200, you'd think they could afford some matte paint. (Well, they can, but that'd less profitable)
if that's aluminum it's more than likely just anodized black and sandblasted beforehand to achieve a consistent surface finish for that matte look. You'd have a rough time sandblasting the groves however. They're shiny because their surface roughness is quite low in comparison to the sandblasted parts of the surface and not a result of any paint of coating.
This was quite interesting to see, that a homemade beam dump is able to stand up to a commercial model, or even outclass it! Granted, the professional model would be more useful in a lab due to its compact nature, and it is precisely machined. Still, the homemade model's cheapness makes it a great safety tool for amateur work. Great video as always!
Yep. Knowing the cost of area on an optical table, it is not something to waste on huge beam dumps. I kind of want a real optical table, but even used the price (and shipping...) is horrible :/ But it is nice to know, that without the size limitations, a cheap homemade beam dump is at least as capable as a commercial model! Thanks for watching as always, General Quack.
@@brainiac75 but what if the dump is placed vertical, with a mirror on the input, so it reflect the light up, towards the dump. That will make the optical table area use way smaller.
Or am I missing something?
@@ikocheratcr Having a mirror will mean more risk of reflections going in directions that are Not Safe(tm), so would probably be an unacceptable option in a lab environment - there's already enough risks of idiot users (as it were) that you want to minimise everything else you can. In a home lab, maybe, but in a professional environment, chances are someone will whine about it. Or worse, not whine, and just mess up, and then everyone has to do a whole lot more work to clean up the mess. :-/
The machining looked only partly good. The outside of the case and the cone are nicely machined, but the grooves on the inside look horrible. Like somebody who doesn't have experience with a metal lathe made it. Chatter marks all over the place. Its honestly not worth the price.
Hey, we both have the same duck as our icon
Yours is top-notch but that pro one can be mounted on an optical breadboard and has a smaller profile. I look forward to seeing a new optical breadboard version from you and the total cost for it!
Looking at that pro version beam dump once you took it apart, blows my mind that that thing cost $200. It's literally two machined pieces of aluminum. A person with a lathe could whip that out in no time. Black anodized coating and done. When you said it cost $200 I was honestly expecting a lot more inside than just a machined cone.
Lab equipment usually sells to companies who don't usually care if something costs 49 or 199 as long as it works and is available.
@@benbaselet2026 ehm no it does matter to them. But if nobody is offering it cheaper off the shelve, they will go for that usually.
@@benbaselet2026 *As long as it's certified and available. A lot of research institutions are not happy when safety equipment doesn't come with a certification of compliance. Even if a DIY version works better, admin and safety don't care because their insurance won't care if something goes wrong. This all goes out the window if you are working outside industry standards, such as pioneering science in a new area, YOU get to set some standards then.
I love this stuff! Thanks for being so humble and down to earth, i like your version better!
Wonderful surprise before my class! So excited to learn about beam dumps!
Man, it's been 8 years, still watching. Keep it up dude, love your content.
I really love your videos. You have really good humor. You always tell us the dangers, but always in a new fun way with real world reasons. Your videos have the correct science to fun ratio. I am subscribed for 2 years and will be as long as you make vids. Thank you for the awesome content.
Thanks DJ Humpl. I try to show the fun and beauty of science while still keeping my videos relatively serious - for this platform anyway :) Much more to come!
I think there might be a way to make your home build a little better by using a refractive lense on the entrance for the laser. I don't know if that will help but when I was in the military the laser dumps we used had them. They also had a multi cone system that looked like a lot of the old polygon trees that had a horrible look to them.
Your channel is severely underrated, I hope you become more popular! Very informative!
Hey, I thought I'd let you know what kind of beam dumps we are using in our laboratory. A beam dump consists of two opaque glass panels, each with a heatsink bonded to their back side. The first glass panel is oriented in such a way that the laser hits it at the Brewster angle, therefore eliminating all reflection _if_ the laser is polarized only parallel (viewed from the side). The second pane is oriented such that it will absorb all of the reflected, not linearly polarized beam.
These really eat up all light, if it wasn't for dust on their surfaces. They can even handle our 12W laser, but you'll have to be a bit careful about thermal shock.
If you need more information let me know!
I would like to see how different coatings, on the inside, would affect the beam dump. Like Musou Black paint.
It needs to be heat resistant, that's the thing.
@@jort93z I wonder if aerogel or starlite made with a tungsten shell would be good with ultrablack CNT to create a laser dump like no other...
Amazing! Well done, love it, thank you for sharing!
Interesting. I like your adjustable aperture
The battle we've all been waiting for!
Stumbled onto this channel and the content is interesting. But every video I’ve watched so far has left me with more questions unanswered than before watching them.
All I have to say is that... During the tests with the three lasers you did, If you put the lux meter's prob in the path of light from the pro in the second laser, you'd probably get a more accurate reading as to what is being thrown out of it... and for the third, the laser just throws out so much light from itself that it's indecisive thanks to such. (If the light from the third were more focused into a proper beam instead of a splash of light, it could produce much better results.)
Cool and Interesting Video as Always 👍👍
Basically, what you need is the plan for a gun suppressor using conic baffles internally paint in black . If you invert the design by sending the laser from the usual bullet exit and plug the part that screw with a plumb bob like the one you use but smaller to fit in... The laser refraction will be caught and absorbed between the baffles.
I predicted the superiority of your dump, not surprising considering the sum total of your surface area... love the aperture...
A little longer throat on your DIY box and it wouldn't have any reflection either, though it would require a fixed aperture.
Maybe having ridges like the pro version does, with the ridges getting taller nearer to the entrance.
Not sure if that's possible with the metal box construction you've got, I'd also be curious to know how well black-painted-sandpaper would work.
I recently had to make a beam dump for tuning an industrial laser and came up with a design for higher power lasers that is quite easy to make.
Just two metal plates blackened with a smooth layer of carbon soot from a flame arranged in a very pointy vee shape, with the open sides of the vee covered with plates and a tube on the mouth to block stray reflections (also blackened).
I used aluminium extrusion filled with water since the laser was about 850W but I could have used aluminium heatsinks, and anything under 100W could easily just be flat plates. As long as the surface of the plates are fairly smooth, black, at a very low angle of incidence, and come to a fine seam where they touch, then it should be very effective.
The carbon is quite resistant to high powered beams due to being so thin and is exceptionally non-reflective if applied correctly, but it is a little delicate and easily wiped off so high temperature paint could be superior for some lower powered applications.
Cool vid I hope you make more like this one
Although you added the variable aperture, perhaps if you still had the original fixed aperture you could use some Black 2.0 paint on the front. I don't think it's heat resistant but to catch any overspill it should be effective.
For a low wattage dump perhaps the cone could be stove paint and the inside of the tube be Black 2.0?
As a small piece of trivia, TV camera calibration charts used to have a hole in them with a black felt box behind it to generate super black (black paint would never give a true black to calibrate a camera with). This hole is traditionally called Gregory's Hole (although I don't know why!).
I would say you won hands down. A very interesting video. 2x👍
Nice!
finally you are bacc after a "long time" not uploading!
Glad you like it! I honestly don't find a month between each video as "long time". One month is nothing in my life :D For example: The 3D model in the video was designed in August last year, but I just found time to actually make the video now...
I think RUclips recommends at least two videos a week... I would seriously have to lower the quality then :D Thanks for watching! (I usually upload twice a month, if you count the videos on Patreon in ;)
@@brainiac75 6:00 That explains why Matas 'suddenly' has isopropyl alkohol in both stores again, it was not easy to get a hold of a while back ;ø)
3D printing is awesome, hope to see more of your and your brothers creations!
@@brainiac75 :) nice!
keep in mind, the pro model is a metric beam dump. it said so right on the package. it only dumps metric beams. are you sure you're not using imperial lasers?
I was thinking about some geometry to reflect light into back of the dump too, and it looks like the pro version has it.
But for DIY version I was thinking glue + sand and then paint it black again? But I am not sure if it could increase reflection outside if the bad luck would put angles on sand in that way...
Another great video
Cool! We need more random grooves and deeper ones for even better result, especially on the front face. Take a look at homemade 2x2 wood acoustic panels for the ultimate solution although deeper grooves would be much easier and just fine.
I'm not sure how you can do the break-up or grooves on the aperture without printing either a secondary stand-alone little partition on feet or a snap-on cover of some sort.
If you were to make another homebuilt no aperture - with the deep grooves/texture inside and front face - from a matt black substance.....I think youd be quite please with the new measurements.
Painting the inside with the "blackest black 2 or 3" from "LIT" (culturehustle") or stealth prism paint like military rigs would be a very cool experiment now that you have some sort of measurement data!
I think your home built beam dump is great. Built properly making your own is better than paying a fortune for a pro version.
I built my own Solar filters with Baader film, and i've never damaged my eyes using them for visual or any sensors for camera work.
Have you thought about getting some Vanta Black paint and applying it to the interior of a beam dump???
Could you coat the inside of the "pro" beam dump with a matte coating to get rid of or at least greatly reduce the reflection it emitted onto the table during the test of the green laser?
Keep it up!
I will, Ronsku :) Still have a lot of videos to make. One of the advantages of only uploading once a month: my list of videos to make grows in stead of getting shorter :D
Any suggestions for a source to find good quality lasers(including at low power)? All I can find are generic brand lasers that thanks to your videos don't inspire much confidence!
Nice video I didn't know that this piece exist , you can paint the internal surface with black 3.0
apply mat finish in the commercial one ...
Event better use vanderblack mat finish in your's !
Thank for this video !
Nicee bro your diy beam dump actually works pretty well. I was wondering if it would work better with vantablack or black 2.0 paint coating on its inside since it absorbs more light than many other shades of black.
I just commented the same idea. I second this!
I was also thinking the same thing! (Did you know that there's now a "Black 3.0" out now from Culture Hustle as well? Even blacker!)
I think it could limit the power handling capability to use a super black coating if it is not rated for high temperature applications. It depends on if the goal is to absorb as much as possible of a low powered beam or if it is to safely absorb a high power beam. Paint that flakes of under high power could be dangerous.
@@larslindgren3846 yea that’s the problem with this idea. We don’t know how the paint would behave under extreme heat. maybe it could flake off or maybe it would improve the beam dumps performance or maybe it could give off toxic fumes or something so idk if that would make the beam dump better or not. We would need to first do tests on the paint to check if it fits the parameters of a good beam dump or not, to make sure it’s safe and absorbs a lot of light, etc.
I had laser surgery on my eye an hour ago. I can't see anything, so I will listen to this.
might be worth flocking the inside of the chambers and front plates with a fire retardant material. flocking is designed to not reflect light, it's literally glue and fibres chopped up that you scatter over the glue. you then apply a positive charge that stands all the fibers up before the glue drys. an example of it's use is a rally car dashboard to stop glare and reflections on the inside of the windscreen. you can also buy it in sheet form.
Have you considered adding a layer of Black 2.0, the really black paint from Culture Hustle? I don't know how it will do in terms of heat, but it is supposed to absorb so much more light.
I have worked in 2 labs and I have never seen a professional beam dump there. Your homemade one is also more advanced than what's usually used, so it's quite normal to see a laser system worth tens of thousands and with more than ten watts terminated in a basic 90 brass pipe bend from a local store.
Yours is better all the way around. Nice job
I subscribed because your videos are interesting
We appreciate if you do a video on LEP flashlights, check it in a spectrometer, power meter and compare it with lasers with respect to safety
Would adding a bit of complexity to the internal geometry of your beam dump make a difference to performance? I realize that you are probably using a matte finish coating, of some description, but if you can extend the beam path, through, say, the addition of a couple of helical fins a long the inner perimeter, you could get a higher effective rate of absorption, and buy yourself a bit more thermal capacity, no?
I'm in custom optics and optomechanical design heavily focused on laser application and what you have here is apples v oranges. Your diy dump is fine but if it was in a form factor useful for lab work it would likely be spilling too much to be safe or useful.
Is the black of your home build the blackest available atm? Also is there no other internal geometry that could be used to trap the light better, for example the Penrose illuminable room and how it keeps all the light to one side? More of an experiment in efficiency rather than keeping the cost low, and would run as a good counterpart to this.
Cool! I feel like a better material must exist for a pro beam dumb that can absorb light... In any case, pretty fascinating video, thanks.
also could you try like puttign somthign like activated carbon in a beam dump to absorb the light?
i know like nothign about laser but could you use something like a fresnel lens to difused to bem after it enters the bam dump so that it is spead out over a wider area?
I've seen pros use stacks of razor blades (blackened, if I remember correctly) to terminate strong pulsed lasers (10W CW but with pulses
those 3d printers look cute, and most of all, theyre so cool!
They are. A match made in 3D heaven. I have the feeling that I am the limiting factor in the 3D prints - not the machines :D Thanks for watching!
I have a couple ideas.
First, if you made the back face of the DIY beam dump a matte piece of aluminum, you could just about completely spread the beam inside the trap.
Second, if you then got some glass plates that fit together such that they'd make a "liner" for the inside of the box, you could use a candle to coat the entire inside face of the DIY box with black soot, you could make it so just about the entire inside surface of the trap is a near-perfect absorber across the whole spectrum, and as long as the beam is diffused, it shouldn't set the inside on fire. Actually now that I think about it, you could even do that on the smooth non-sticky side of something like box tape or duct tape if you put the tape on something that acted like a heat sink while you were sooting it. You should have basically zero internal reflections after that.
Super video som altid 🙂
you should try vantablack or something like that.
i know you can get paint that claims to absorb like 99,98% of light.
Needs comparison with cheapo version I once used - coke can spray-painted black on the inside. (has to be placed at an angle)
I notice in this experiment that there is a lot of scattering of light coming from laser apertures. Is there a way to eliminate or reduce that?
I've just realized you're almost at 750k
For the 3D printer washing, the IPA can last a very long time, it takes a lot to fill the container but after that it only really uses a tiny amount to replace what is lost to evaporation.
If it gets cloudy you can filter the resin out. leave the container in sunlight for a little and let the resin bits cure then filter them out with a coffee filter.
Eventually you will need to completely replace it because it gets diluted as the alcohol evaporates and the alcohol percentage gets lower, but if you start with ~99% IPA it'll be good for a long time. You could switch to water washable resins but honestly I don't think it's worth it.
Thanks for the tip! I just personally prefer handling demineralized water over IPA. Cheaper, less flammable and less fumes :) But I am in no hurry to switch to water washable resins. I have great experiences with the IPA washable resins so far. Thanks for watching!
I would suggest painting the inside of the dumb with black 3.0 or vantablack, anyways nice video
You should look into using some Edmund Optics adhesive-backed flock paper #54-585. I've used this to absorb reflections inside sct optical tubes and it works dramatically better than matte paint.
*edit: you might even be able to shorten the length of the square tubing as well.
I looked up this paper and it said "Note: This material is meant to absorb light and is not recommended for direct exposure to high power lasers".
@@gwc1410 I dont think it would handle a direct beam, but the diffuse/reflected light off the cone inside the beam dump should be fine.
Please consider making a laser power meter for like 1-100W beams from CNC laser like K40 engraver.
What is the brand/model of that variable aperture you're using and purchase location?
You should also add a darker black paint to the inside, something like musou black.
Couldn't you coat the inside with paint that soaks up laser/light? I'm thinking one of those Blackest black paints or the paint they use on military aircraft should help.
I would want to see how a paint that absorbs most light like Black 2.0 or vantablack fairs in this application
I visited a lab that had these tiny laser dumps made of brass and about the size of a N sized battery.
How would that compare to yours?
What would be the difference in its reported parameters?
i feel like if you combined a cone with an uniluminatable room design towards the enterance, you could acheive just stupid absorbtion. I can think of a few ways you might be able to pull this off if you are motivated enough.
I wonder if the darkest colour painted in the inside increase the effectivness
Where do one buy the variable aperture?
Would the DIY version get any better if you paint the inside of it with musou black?
Are there pro versions that are close to equivalent in size? Large apples to large apples, after all. I figure if they were similar volumes/sizes the comparison could be a little more dramatic... or not. Without the absolute need for compactness I'd think the best option is the homemade dump.
One possible reason for the "pro" model not being "very black" inside could be to better spread the rays, instead of heat having to be absorbed over a smaller area. While it sound great with minimal reflection out of the beam dump, the point is more that whatever "leaks" should not be dangerous. Of course, there could also be narrow applications where the outside should just be as dark as possible, outside of the laser beam itself.
Maybe some candle soot could remove those shiny surfaces from the insides?
I think they both could be upgraded with avanta black or culture hussle black 3.0
I am a machinist, not a laser expert, but I am surprised they did not taper the inside of the "pro" beam dump to increase the surface area for light to scatter on. Also, if heat is an issue why not add fins to dissipate the heat?
you should paint the inside of your Dump with Vanta Black.
Have you tried "Black 3.0" claiming to be the blackest black - to well, blackout the laser beams? ;) Painting the inside with this might be able to completely wipe any laser
Hej Brian, jeg har et spørgsmål.
Ved du hvor man kan få fat i lasere? Jeg er selvfølgelig klar over at det ikke er legetøj.
hell yeah
Could you paint the inside with one of those superdark paints that absorb 99.99 percent of light e.t.c. Vantablack i think you could improve the pro model and diy one exponentially with even just one coat on the face and interior even better if you put something like sandpaper inside then painted it
You should paint the inside with vantablack
might be worth trying to paint the inside with black 3.0
Try paint inside with ultra black paint don't remember the name. Or some type of wool.
That music always makes me think I'm watching SCP illustrated
Coat it with a super dark paint like musou black
You can use a long 2.5 mm fiber optic to carry the laser outside the house to the sky but be careful not to hit a plane or birds 🙂
You might ctry 3d printing some internal baffles for your homebrew dump , and make it even better 8-)
Not a bad suggestion, Bill! With a beam narrow enough to pass through some cone shaped baffles with a hole instead of the tip, I could really trap some more light from ever getting out of the beam dump. Thanks!
@@brainiac75 one additional point (pun intended) , a cone will always have a flat point to some extent. If the cone was replaced with an angled plane , to reflect light away into the baffle array ,it might be possible to remove all direct reflections.
If you want a really quick beam dump, just drill and tap/tread a hole. If you can can coat it black all the better.
better to Small then To big ,,,
you can Always take some away ,
its harder to add something
Would something like Musou Black improve the performance of this?
Yes, any highly light-absorbent black paint would be an improvement. I just think many of them are not very heat-resistant which would be a problem right where the laser beam hits the cone. I used a paint that is resistant up to 650°C for the homebuilt! Maybe a bit overkill, but it wasn't that expensive :D Thanks for watching!
@@brainiac75 Thank YOU for producing these videos, they're always entertaining and educational at the same time! Cheers :D
Use Laser googles for all wavelengths for extra safety.
I keep telling you, TINKERCAD! You could've designed that with just a set of calipers!
That commercial one does noot look matt at all. I wonder if they reserve that for a more expensive model just to justify a much higher price...
Lol I want to play with high levels lasers but I don't really have the confidence lol and Don't want to spend money lol.
I would hate to buy the wrong Lazer Glass and blind my self
How do these compare to just using a slab of graphite?
The laser dot would be very visible, if the graphite was not encased. But if a piece of graphite was placed at the bottom of the homebuilt, I assume it would work just fine :) Thanks for watching!