Beacon Generator Repair - You Cannot Save Them All
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- Опубликовано: 4 дек 2024
- A subscriber sent this Beacon generator to me I think as a challenge. It is in bad condition. After sorting out the engine issues in part 1, I could see that the generator was not making power. I found damage on the power control board (PCB). The stator and rotor tested well so I sent the PCB out for repair. Upon installing the repaired board the generator made power, but the silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) immediately blew out and the engine went under a heavy load. The board failed in the same way as I found it before sending it for repair. I tested the insulation at 1000 volts and did not find a fault. I am going try my luck one more time and get the PCB repaired again.
Beacon Part 1: • Will it Run and Make P...
PCB Board Repair 1: • Briggs / Generac Power...
PCB Board Repair 2: • Portable Generator 841...
Bassguitarist1985 (aka Gary): / @bassguitarist1985
Generator Model: 01277-0
Engine Model: GN-410 EHF-04108-1
Power Control Board (PCB) Part Number: 84132GS
System Control Board (SCB) Part Number: 83970GS
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01277, 01277-0, 5500EXL, 5500XL, 7550EXL, 7550XL, 83970GS, 84132GS, Anti Lash Spring, Anti Surge Spring, Bad Excitation Winding, Bad Stator, Beacon Group, Beacon, EHF-04108-1, Engine Goes Under Load, Fire, Fixed, Flying Short, GN-410, Generac EXL, Generac XL, Generac, Generator, Hertz, How To, How-To, No Output, No Power, No Voltage, Oil Pressure Test, PCB, Power Control Board, Rotor Removal, Rotor Test, SCB, SCR, Small Engine, Smoke, Stator Removal, System Control Board, Troubleshooting, Voltage Regulator
At 1329 you can see a hot spot at 7 aclock on the inside. And you can see it on the out side too
After removing the stator, I sanded a spot inside and outside to do a final ground test. I think that is what you are seeing.
@@jcondon1 it's just as you took it off there no way you had time to sand it. They are in the same spot on inside and out
@@jcondon1 I watched it agine and it could be where you sanded it ?????
@@iamnoone. It does look sanded outside, but the inside looks like it's gotten hot. I'm satisfied that it's as James said though.
i seen that also. it isnt sanded for sure. he just took it off.. its black . i agree.. might be a bad spot..
I have never seen a more thorough or persistent repair guy! Kudos to you.
Thanks James, I started enjoying your lectures a few weeks ago, after I purchased a generator and I was going to connect it to my house electrical system as a back up in case of a power failure, I have all the parts I need but have not done it yet, since the chances of the failure are kinda low, any way this is my new addiction, watching you trying all kinds of tricks and magic to make the systems worthy to go back to the field, excellent work, I have over 40 years of experience in electronics repairs and you are my new hero, way more patient that I would ever want to be, again thanks for posting all the wealth of materials, just fantastic, the best I have ever seen in YT! many blessings for you and your loved ones!
The generator was never maintained and being stored outside means a lot of things can get corroded. Sad that the power head could not be saved, but this video still has a lot of useful information. Thanks.
Dave.
Hi James. Thanks for this timely video.
I have just had a similar issue with an old generator I was given recently. Poor condition, stored outside, uncertain history. Yamaha MZ300 engine, not running but I was told it was OK. Turned out tank and carb were filthy. I cleaned them out, engine runs now. No power. Very noisy bearing in power head. AVR had been replaced, old one supplied, the capacitor obviously blown up. I was told the AVR had been professionally replaced but when started, the new AVR "blew up." (nothing obvious to look at.) Repairer told owner to give up on the machine. It sat outside for a couple of years or more, before it was given to me. With the "new" AVR still fitted, it produced wildly varying voltage - constantly fluctuating from tens of volts to about 200 volts. (it's a 240V generator, I'm in Australia.)
I followed some of your other videos, tested output with 12V applied to brushes and AVR disconnected - I got constant but low voltage, about 120 Volts. I tested the ohms of rotor and three stator windings - main output winding, exciter winding and another, very low ohms, possibly a sense winding, but it didn't connect to the AVR or anywhere else, it was just a two pin plug dangling on two green wires. This AVR connected direct to the output, it sensed the full output voltage. All windings tested perfect based on the expected ohms in your other videos. When running, with AVR disconnected, I tested the exciter winding (2 blue wires) but got half the expected voltage - only 2.4 volts AC.
Well like this video, I couldn't find anything wrong but decided to pull it apart and try to source an other alternator. (this is my first generator repair so I have no spares.) When I got the stator off, I got curious and decided to go over everything. Each winding in the stator tested fine Ohms, no discoloured wire, no shorts to earth (ground.) Then I did what I haven't seen you do yet... tested for shorts BETWEEN windings... and found the answer. The main winding was shorted to the exciter winding.
My theory now is that the exciter winding started the AVR supply of DC to the rotor, but as soon as the main winding produced AC, it fed that high voltage AC to the exciter winding via the short, causing damage to the AVR.
I'd be interested if you can test the stator in this video and see if you have any shorts BETWEEN windings. I haven't seen you test that in any video I have seen so far. (Apologies if you have, I haven't seen it.)
Thanks for your videos, they are great - entertaining to watch and very instructive.
Taylor, your subscriber donor, got two videos for his money and the rest of us got a view of how to struggle with a machine that fights back. I did learn some things James. Many Thanks.
I also learned a lot on this one. The detail on how these boards work will help future repairs.
@@jcondon1 Surely opens up new potential to repairs that would have been a lost case before.
That tip for pulling it til compression so that the valves are closed for storage is a good one👍
I'm gonna use that for my lawnmower (the only small engine I have)
As an electronics technician, this is exactly why I have condemned boards and assemblies that have damage to the circuit board itself. If the damage is that severe, the only proper repair is by replacement of the entire board.
Agreed. I was about to send an undamaged working regulator board to James but he discovered the hot spot in the stator and realized it couldn't be saved.
Mr. Condon, You provide a great resource for anyone wanting to know more about the repair and maintenance the smaller KW generators - the best resource that I have found. You hit homeruns with all of your videos but these two videos - part #1,2 - you hit out of the park. Great information. Thank you.
Even on failures, I learn a lot.
For all the gents involved with saving this unit, you did a great job and the good bit and pcs. will live on. Very nice 2 part video. Thanks guys!!
I really enjoyed the slow motion sequence. You don’t realize how much these machines rock around on their rubber mounts when they start and stop.
Well you through everything at it you could, Vice grips, WD-40, PB Blaster, the scissor jack and the big hammer. I always admire your grit. Lessor men would have quit long ago.
My vote goes to the early determination that there's a short between exciter and power windings. Chalked up as expected, if it's not, that could be a hot to ground path that the board isn't designed for. Brilliant video as always. It would be great to see a full circuit diagram.
When my father repaired old electronics for his employer some boards had warnings that "if this blows also replace this other board" sometimes a fault in one board killed another board. You could keep replacing one board or the other but first power up would kill both boards unless you replaced both boards together.
My first experience with this type of codependent failure was with an Atari 2600. Replacing one component or the other would result in both being destroyed. When both were replaced at sa e time it was a successful repair.
Hello, James. That was a tough nut. It proved that you can't fix them all. It was good to add how to set up an engine for long term storage. That is very useful information. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
You have a Lot more patience than me Jim! That thing would have been a boat anchor by now in my shop!
I thought this one was going to be a survivor.
I never thaught about pulling the starter cord until the engine had compression so the cylinder was closed off.
Great idea
As always, James, magnificent! And Thank-you!
Your technical skills are amply equalled by your teaching and video skills. With enough thoughtful humour to spice the tempo.
Hurrah!
I have a couple of generators. So far, I'm good but if I need to work on one of them in the future your videos provide a LOT of useful information about repairs. Repair on not only specific models but just generators in general. Thanks!
A shorted turns tester is a very handy device. I used them for thirty odd years testing transformers, coils and TV yokes.
Great work and always look forward to watching.
Used that in part 1. It tested well.
I remember those devices, a triangle transformer that allowed you to turn the rotor around it to check if the magnetic properties were ok. I remember because I used to work in a technical college where they actually taught apprentices to rewind stators and rotors, nowadays they just toss them, unless your in India where those roadside 🎩 magicians rewind stators and rotors for little cost and I do mean 🎩 magicians. I think those roadside shops can fix anything that breaks.
It's unfortunate this generator had a bad stator but like you said, you can't save them all but at least you got a good running engine out of it which will come in handy one day to save another machine, nice work James!
Happy Thanksgiving my friend. You had a good (and well deserved) increase in subscribers this year. You will find a home for this engine. All the best to you and the family.
Hi Jim...Long time subscriber here. We had a power outage today and thanks to your great videos, I was able to get our house backup generator working, even though it would have preferred the day "off".... Our refrigerator/freezer (and I) Thank You!!
Was hoping to see it in all it's glory again. But, you just can't win them all.. but, I'd dare to say you won this over and just haven't seen it yet. Another great video, another slew of information. One of the best at what you do. Blessings and respect!
Good video series and more learnings. Thanks James.
A great effort James, you can't win every one. Thanks for sharing.
Great example of why you should keep indoors or well covered from the elements.
It may be helpful to energize the brushes independently using an external
variable voltage power supply with the generator running and its stator leads
disconnected. Gradually energize the rotor more and more increasing the
output from the variable voltage power supply to the brushes and observe
all outputs from the stator. This could rule out a problem with the control
boards. That small board with the SCR is possibly damaged by a short
present in the board itself between layers. Replacing components and
bridging broken traces doesn't fix the entire problem so if it fails again
even repaired with new components, possibly the board itself is shorted.
You can see a shorted winding in the stator at 22:30. Not a short on the board.
@@Bassguitarist1985 Seems like there should not be current
enough from the excitation winding to the rotor through the regulator
to result in a rapid and fiery burning of that low power regulator
board. Could the fried regulator have been connected incorrectly to
the main stator output? Or maybe there is sharing that should not
not be there between main windings in the stator and the excitation
windings.
@@artpatronforever the exciter is bonded on one side #2 wire to #22 the neutral of the main winding. This is done for the voltage regulation circuit. The failure for this generator is a flying short in the main winding to ground. Thus why it went under heavy load. At 22:30 you can see the hot spot on the inside and outside of the stator. Stator is effed in this case.
@@Bassguitarist1985 Yeah I see the dark spot inside on the laminations
that would account for a hidden stray path for high current.
@@artpatronforever yup!!
Kudos and a shout-out to Gary. He really knows his stuff 👍 He's the electronics technician I'd like to be 😎 When I saw the 'flash' in the first vid and where it was I figured it was 'game over' for this one without major transplant surgery. Seems I was right but you glad tried anyhow 😊
It was a head scratcher for both of us for a time and when I did find damage on the system control board I thought that was the root cause but when he took the power head off and found the burnt area that cinched it all.
@@Bassguitarist1985 what state you in?
@@wallyhandyman CT
@@Bassguitarist1985 oh cool i'm 35 mins from enfield ct the reason i was asking was just in case i have to have you look at the boards from my gen. and there not burned like his was.
Another great follow-up video.
Thanks!
Thank you James for a great video this one was very educational. Your explanation on how the power head works was in depth and clear. This was a great series. There was a great attempt by everybody who tried save this genarator. You have taught me how to prep the engine the proper way for long term storage. I have been enjoying your channel and content and always wait for the next video. ❤🇨🇦
Ditto.
Thanks for the tips on fuel and on how to store my genset. I'll take a look at mine today.
I thought for sure you had it fixed. Gotta give you a medal for perseverance, however! 😉
I was sad to see that board burn up, it fought you to the very end, thanks for salvaging the engine, made part 2 satisfying.
You gave it a good run and at the minimum, you have a very good engine. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
You would need one other meter to your collection: An inductance measuring device. That generally comes as a part of so called LCR meters. If there is an internal short in a winding, the inductance collapses, but the DC resistance probably changes only a token amount. Or we might say the the "Q" or quality factor of the coil also collapses. The LCR meters tend to be fairly expensive, but you might check the offerings of BK Precision, or what is more capable, DER EE meter model DE-5000 that is my favorite with a wide measuring range due to especially 100 Hz to 100 kHz frequency range. Cheaper meters may be limited only to 1 kHz fixed. I believe the generator windings require measurements at 100 Hz.
Something called a Sound Card LCR Meter would be a do it yourself way of making an LCR meter too. It uses Left out and then Left and Right inputs to measure Inductance along with a couple of cables and a resistor and/or capacitor or two.
It freaks me out that your hands are always clean! My hands look like I played in a crankcase when I'm working!
Although the bell housing has an unusual bolt pattern, you can easily take it off and see if there are extra tapped holes in the engine cover that could be used to mount another generator head but you would still have to find on with a rotor to fit the non-standard length tapered end of the crankshaft.
I took a look and the engine cover and no additional holes :(
Hi James a good follow up video You cant win them all This engine will have its day of that I am sure Thanks for sharing
Undoubtedly you’re the best equipment resuscitation expert out there but even you can’t save all of them.
Has a flying short. Short is only active once the rotor starts spinning. While stopped it all appears o be fine but once it gets up to speed or it starts spinning the short connects it self, when it stops the short clears or otherwise disconnects itself. The issue is extremely rare maybe 1 in 10 thousand chance that you would/could happen. When the stator is energized the magnetic force pulles or otherwise shifts the windings into a shorted condition when power in cut it loses contact and clears the short. It happens once in maybe 10k issues. Extremely rare problem. Could happen in the rotor but even less if a chance think I've seen that problem maybe twice in 20 years I worked rebuilding generators. That it is in he stator is maybe a 1 in 5k chance kinda problem.
A flying short is the most likely cause.
Just so rare I had to comment. Know ppl that are professional rebuilders that have never run across that problem. So had to chime in. As a just-in-case kinda thing. Love your show btw, great work always well organised, you diagnostic skills are A+ lvl. Known a lot of techs over the years and very few ever make it to the lvl of skill you display. I'm well I was an instructor for Boshce in Europe for year's. I'm well acquainted with what going into making it look so simple as you do. Many many hours of study practice and banging your head against the wall till you get it right. Your da man. Great work
As you said, you cant fix them all. It was very entertaining watching you try. Happy Thanksgiving!
I'm curious if a rod with a few o-rings on it could be used with water to pop off rotors? Acts like a piston down the center of the rotor. Would strike it with a hammer.
You gave it your best shot, happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
A really interesting video. I purchased a Home Depot 5200 Watt generator, but couldn't find the information I needed at the time, to check the rotor and stator. I noticed, when I pulled the back to expose the slip rings and brushes, that there was the same type of discolouring on my stator. Even though I purchased a new voltage regulator board, I didn't want to risk blowing it out if there was a fault in the stator. I have learned a lot from your video, and maybe I'll have another shot at identifying the problem.
Sometime they use different color varnish in the wires. If it does not look burned then there is a chance it’s still good.
Thanks, I'll pull it apart and have a closer look. At least, because of what I have learned here, I have a better idea what to measure and look for. I have a megger, and wonder if you have a video where you have used one?
My take is keep the rotor with the unit .
It's old & very much obsolete but should work as a Franken-gen for a few more years .
Just document the parts changes for the next fix !
Ditch the original avr , it's trouble .
Find a stator that fits use the end carrier casting , end cap & avr from that donor unit .
Fit a small battery tender in the plug panel ( running off the a/c out ) .
Relabel the 12 v out as charger input or just delete it !
Some you win
Some you lose
Some you break even
Some you make it up as you go along !
Sometimes you just go home …...........
The windings testing good by the insulation tester does not mean that the windings do not have any internal shorts between turns.
Internal shorts not always visible by checking resistance either. Checking impedance with AC waveform would be more helpful.
Also did not help that the excitation winding was common to the main winding. Hard to test if shorted between those windings. And an internal short in a winding also hard to see with a meter.
At least you got a decent pressure-lubed engine out of the deal. Maybe a powerhead that will fit will show up in the future. Happy Thanksgiving!
Not after hitting the shaft essentially when trying to get that rotor off. Sketchiest thing I have seen him do. The crank getting driven that hard against the casing and bearings doesn't extend the life of that engine much.
@@michaelkennedy2528 I have seen James do it once before. He did it then because the rotor was shot already. He also said that he did not like doing it and it was a very last resort.
An interesting gremlin. Those sort were rare ones which occurred on 1960/70 mainframe computers like the IBM System 3 range.
I ran a large Control Data Cyber system back in the '80s which suffered hard drive issues caused by a zealous maintenance engineer who used an aggressive cleaning solvent on the read/write heads!!
Interesting....I worked on Cyber hard drives in the 80's with MPI/CDC. Those were quite the days, with hard drives as big or bigger than a washing machine!
@@duanek9892 Those drives were dam quick - as was the whole main frame using Seymour Roger Cray's brilliance in its design.
What used to take an hour to process with an IBM system 3 reduced to 10 mins on the Cyber. Impressive stuff
If James can’t find the problem, no one is going to find it, machine is just too stubborn to work that’s all
Jim, another great video. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Excelent job Mr. James!!! I finally have the opportunity to see how a Generac generator repairs, I have a similar one and I was curious how to change the dynamo or power head and configure it, eager to see the 3rd part of this series of videos... thanks Mr. James for your contribution in this world of electric generator repair... always grateful... greetings from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷...👋👋👋👋👋 ( Google translate)😁
Like you said James, you can't save them all. but you did get to save some parts for later on. great video. making great video's.
I had the same issues. My first wife blowup, so after she left, I sat back for a little over a year, and then found a second wife, and at first I thought it was working, but one day I came home and gee, I couldn't believe it, that marriage blow up also. Been thinking about that for some 35 years now, looked in the mirror and realized I am now only good for parts! Ah, life! 😎✌️💕 Loved this two part video. Thanks!
Great follow up Jim. It is strange that the board kept blowing without any obvious failure mode. We chalk those up to electronic evil spirits. Nothing a good exorcism can’t cure. 😂
Sometimes that can be chalked up to a bad design. I've run across many radios that are known to fail at one place. Occasionally the design can be improved through use of better components but these days it's often a bespoke chip dead with no replacements to be had 😢
Maybe the voltage control board was mismatched or misadjusted? I wonder what the output voltage would be with just DC current on the windings, and how many volts/amps it would need to run at 120V. It almost looks like the field windings are taking way too much current and the MOSFET just blows because of that.
Ah well, you can't win 'em all. As a by the by, I'm guessing you're upstate which is a pity as I'm on long island visiting my mum and sister this week. But work calls and I head back to Blighty Monday evening, so it'll have to be another time. Thanks for another great video Jim.
Good morning. Have you ever considered getting a growler to test the rotor or stator ? I am not a specialist in electric motor or generator repairs and have never used a growler myself, but a friend of mine had one, and he used it all the time for that kind of tests. What my friend said was that sometimes you ran into situations where you could measure to no end and not detect the problem, but with the growler he always cound the problem. He used a hacksaw blade to detect the vibrations.
A growler would help with the rotor but not so much as with the stator unless it was already in a constant short or open condition. It works on the rotor by production an magnetic field powerful enough to pull on the winding inside the rotor to see if they move into a shorted position no so much with the stator it just checks for shorts doesn't induce a field just does a continuity check. But not a bad idea
Wow, this was very educational👍👍👍
Thanks for the vid. I am impressed with your attention to detail. Why haven't you been using the lift you got in a previous episode. I would have thought you would use it and not have to work on the floor.
Was wondering the same thing. Sometimes, old habits are hard to break. Nonetheless, a valorous effort and still one of the best.
@@1SmittysGarage In the first video of this series James said that the handle on the generator was missing so it was too awkward to get it on the lift safely.
@@r8118830 definitely makes sense. Still by far one of my favorite channels.
Sometimes it’s just easier to work on the floor. Without the handle on it, was hard just to roll it on the floor. Plus I am working on multiple projects at the same time and there was another patient on the lift in pieces.
@@jcondon1 understand multiple projects at once. It's easier to have multiple going on at once parts wise to me because there's always forward momentum. Always looking forward to what's next. Blessings and respect!
Hi first if you get a centre drill and drill in the centre of the draw bolt the pullers will stay put when you pull the end cover off.
While you are pulling give the end cover some heat around the bearing and the outside.
Get two 12v batteries in series 24v and connect to a 24v pulse width modulation dc motor speed controller and connect to the
Brushes.
With your test lamp and a multi meter slowly ramp up the excitation to check the output from the alternator.
If ok i think the kidney shape avr
fits those units.
Use 500 volt to test not 1000, 1000v bit to much.
Good luck.
Grind a shiny patch on the laminates to give you a better connection.
I keep non ethanol fuel in mine and it's the same premix I run for weedeater and lawn mower. I change it annually and run it to warm up then under load. It stays stored in garage and I've never had problems like this.
Thanks for the interesting content James. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Well its unfortunate it wasn't able to be fixed but at least you get to dig into it and find out what failed. I work on similar stuff to this and see if I can get it going and why it was put away sometimes I find the reason other times I don't. Id say the thing that is the most cool about it is I run a RUclips channel as well, people can watch our videos we upload and see what we're working on and say Hey I'm having that same issue and follow what we do instead of taking it somewhere to have it worked on, Plus even if you don't end up getting what ever your working on running taking it apart to see what failed is a good learning experience. Keep up the good work and keep the videos coming I also enjoy seeing when youtuber's help other youtuber's out.
Thankful for a video on Thanksgiving and wishing the best holiday to you and yours, Jim. 🦃 Sorry that you and Gary spent as much time and effort as you guys did only to have it continue to fail.
Made for great educational video content!!
@@Bassguitarist1985 Absolutely and much appreciated in that regard for sure!
Definitely learned a lot on this one. The biggest takeaway is a multimeter and an megger cannot always find a problem. If they find a problem then its bad. But if it tests well it does not always guarantee it’s healthy.
You could check the iron of the stator for a short. Rap the stator with some welding cable and connect this cable to an AC welder and set the welder to the lowest setting and run the welder for a few seconds and check for hot spots on the stator iron. I think you will see a spot that will start to glow red this is because the iron has shorted out and cause high current in the motor. The only wat to fix it would be to separate the iron at the hot spot and insulating it by varnish or cutting out the short with a cutter or grinder. Also when you power up the welder you should be able to check the voltage coming off the winding, all the voltages should be the same , you can check the the voltage to groung of the stator and winding neutral. Great videos keep up the good work.
Hay I’m fixing one just like it and so far it’s turning out great
Rats ate fan and all wires
Carb was terrible but cleaned up
Still trying to get fuel tank gleaned
Metal tanks are terrible ideal
You can partially prefill the oil filter even if it mounts upside-down. The oil will soak into the filter element if you give it a few moments. For long term storage run engine with fresh oil until fully warmed up. Spray fogging oil into the carburetor and smoke it heavily. Stall out or shut off and drain all the gas out of everything. Spraying fogging oil into the carb bowl will coat the interior. Spraying fogging oil through the carb lubes the valves and guides. Leaving the engine on the compression stroke is a good idea. Won't work on a multi cylinder engine. Close the choke and Spray exterior bare metal with fogging oil to stop corrosion.
Prefillin oil filters is a joke. Do you pour oil over the valvetrain before you start your car?
@@pootispiker2866 If your concerned with engines starting dry you can buy prelubers that use an electric pump and pressurize the entire oil system. Also don't forget to get a lube oil heater and get the oil to about 185 degrees f. It's done on commercial and standby engines. Prefilling
the filter will get the oil to the dry valve train
a tiny bit faster. NO downside.
I say lesson learned...... do not leave your stuff outside uncovered.
Why don't you use the black box power supply for your DC. You can then load the gene and see if the stator holds while monitoring DC amps from power supply. That way you will know if it was the board
Good video as usual Jim. One note of caution on hammering on the bolt that threads into the crankshaft...hammer too hard and you could break/crack the crankshaft Ask me ho I know. Also, I have a rotor I can't get off the tapered shaft. I was hesitant to pound on the bolt...but now it's the only alternative.
It not usually my first choice. You will almost definitely damage the bolt. Possible damage the rotor (if you hit it), and as you pointed out could damage the engine. Usually hammering the bolt works in 3-4 strikes. This one was really stuck on there. Of course I could have hammered on the rotor directly to free it from the engine, but wanted to save it since I think it’s still good.
Theres a youtuber, "steves small engine saloon" has used and air hammer or air chisel to remove flywheels locked on a taper. Wortha look.
At 4:25 you state that the white wire is the positive and is the outside brush. However the normally red wire, marked positive, is on the left which is the inside brush on all the others that I am aware of. Perhaps that is what fried the board and possibly the stator?
Hi, James. I'm sorry I am so late with my comment, but I thought I would share my thoughts on this power head. The fact that the main windings were disconnected when the power module blew up would indicate to me that the load on the engine was due to excessive current in the DPE winding supplying the power module due to a short in the power module itself. Looking at the slo-mo footage of the module destroying itself, it is clear that there was a huge amount of current involved. This could only have come from the DPE winding.
My next step would have been to remove the power module and supply 12v to the brushes from a battery. If the engine still went under load doing this, then definitely the stator is bad, with an internal short somewhere. If not, then the issue is only with the power module.
Another option would to use the DPE winding with just a bridge rectifier to supply the brushes. Again, if the engine went under load, then there is an issue with the stator.
There is no way a bad stator on its own could cause the failure of the power module. The only way the rotor could contribute to the failure is if it suddenly went short circuit, in which case the magnetic field from the rotor would collapse, stopping any power generation from happening.
IMHO, the only villain in the piece is the power module. It has a fault causing the DPE winding to short out.
That engine would be well received by someone doing custom go-kart shenanigans.
before risking the repaired boards i would exite the rotor with a variable DC power supply and measure output voltages from the stator to eliminate any internally shorted stator windings James!
That was an impressive flame out. Even if you had got it to produce power I don't think you could trust it long term with that amount of corrosion on it but kudos to you for giving it a damn good go.
it is possible that a coil is tested ok,but under load and rising tempeture a short circuit can occure between the wires,
Every time you say "thanks for watching", I say "thanks for making" Literally out loud. lol. I do all my own mechanic work (vehicles and small engine) but still learn a lot from watching these. Thanks
Well said young mate loved your video. Great work.
In your 1st video you got the generator to work by supplying 12 volts to the brushes and got power, which should indicate the generator is sound. With all the corrosion on this generator could it not have a proper ground though out the generator body and frame. IF this is the case I wonder if your getting a back feeding though the boards. I have seen this many times in the automotive field there circuits will back feed though anything turning radios on when the reverse light come on or lights turning off and on by pressing the brake pedal that are not the brake lights.
An alternative to fogging oil is a 2 cycle mineral TC-W3 oil at about a 16 to 1
gas to oil fuel mix. Fill the fuel line and run the engine a few seconds, it should
smoke when it gets a gulp of that 2 cycle fuel mix. Choke it down instead of
running it dry. Leave the choke closed on the stopped engine.
Good day from my experience repaing and rewinding generator my guess was the second board was part of voltage regulation
In Japanese and Chinese small generators if the sensing wire coupled with the main winding disconnect it will ramp up over voltage which lead to damage the regulators just my guess
Never mind James,
There are NOT many situations that beat you (you're a fighter to the end).
I'm sure that, at some point, a Phoenix will arise out of the ashes of this machine (pun unintended).
Happy Thanksgiving to all your end.
Wayne & Nina (Ipswich, Suffolk, UK)
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you for the thanksgiving gift today.
You did not see the shaft on stater jumping up and down..The berrings are DONE from sitting outside i suspect.the shaft looks like an oval rotation
Hi James. Such hammering on the motor shaft destroys the bearings. The rod and thread or hydraulic pressure method is much friendlier to the motor shaft bearings.
A air hammer would be very helpful in separating rusted powerheads. South Main Auto uses Big Nasty. That's overkill for a power head. A smaller air hammer is all that's needed. Happy Thanksgiving
That should work. Tried once and failed, but I did not have big nasty
I reckon, on a second viewing, at least, buying that voltage regulator board new is worthwhile, then a try-out with the existing stator (and another stator) . . .
It's such a lovely machine (ok, rusty frame, lost towing handle and foot . . . ).
Again, thanks!
well done thanks for sharing learned a LOT
Hi James , I was field service industrial for over 35 years and have accumulated a lot of tools etc. I retired a little over a year ago. I have a few items I think you could use, possibly several,. I will have to go snooping around the garage to see. Is there an address I could send a care package to ? It may take me a little while to get it sent out. Thanks for all the great videos you make and share with us. I'm sure all us viewers learn some good tips from them.
So James, what do you think? Micro movement in the stator winding from the magnetic flux under load?
Well sometimes things don’t work out sorry about your luck . I learned something so thanks .
James thanks for these videos. I just watched one where you fabricated a governor rod that was discontinued and forwarded it to a subscriber. Good job. I just purchased a Wen 5600 watt portable generator. No issues yet. Just curious-I heard it is a Yamaha clone. Is that right? When the time comes, where can I get parts besides from Wen?
James can't tell you how much I enjoy your videos to say they are excellent is an understatement! I have a question for you: I have an excellent but inexpensive 4KW generator for emergency purposes that runs great, but I'm concerned about harmonic distortion from it damaging my high-end appliances. Short of buying an expensive inverter generator is there a reasonably priced device i.e., line conditioner etc. that would reduce this harmonic distortion to an acceptable level or am I just domed to pay out the bucks for an inverter generator.
Well done James, maybe someone may have a spare powerhead lying around for you and you'll be able to get another machine functional again. Keep it up.
Do you go direct to Generac or Beacon for parts like the spring or do you have a different supplier? I have an old "
All-Power America APG 3009, 6KW that I need parts for and they are no longer in production (I need the same spring you replaced here).
Did you come up with an explanation about the AVR burning up? If the system board was unplugged the only other input is the exciter winding. I had a 5500XL that I saved from scrap - that acted in a very similar manner as your did in this video - would power on lights - and than go under load. With mine the burnt stator windings were easy to find after removing it.
Hey James. I had a question on stator repair. I have a stator that is no good on a firman generator. Do I have to buy the same wattage output stator that the generator is rated for or will another closely equal one work? Also where is a good place to find and purchase one? Thanks for your time
james its easier to replace the board instead of repairing it. I used to work for a Multec inc in Ausin texas and if a board that has a hole in it through and through is no good and we start again making a new board. i was end of the line test and then i got demoted. well i was promoted to proto typing to the basement. but if a board was damaged it got remade or tossed
Hi James, I've watched many of your videos and I'm learning a great deal. I recently picked up a WheelHouse 5500 that looks to in great shape. It starts and runs but there is no power output. I did all the test as you describe and believe the stator and rotor are defective. Do you have a power unit for sale? Any suggestions? Thanks, Tom
would a burb gun & piece of wood be better than hammering?