Here's the thing with playing halflings, there's only one reason to do it. You win: "Ha ha, you suck, I beat you with halflings." You lose: "Of course I lost, I've only got halflings." It's permission to gloat if you win and protection from criticism if you lose.
I personally love nurgle. A bit of a grind to win but amazing on defence. I do agree that its a different play style to most teams and that's where the challenge comes from
Nurgle, if played right is dangerous. If you play them well its hard for things to go wrong. That said, you can have things easily fall apart (omg pun) - especially if you as the player make a mistake.
I'm noticing a theme: Low to average move and low to average agility. As a primarily dwarf coach I would agree this creates a lot of the challenge for dwarfs although dwarfs have the skills built into them to compensate, these teams do not. Primarily it's because, as you touched on, you have to think through your opponent's next turn, especially when on defense. One fast elf on the opposite side of the pitch from your team gets through and it might be 4 turns before you can force him to score. If you can't stop the drive you have to at least force the score quickly so you have time to get back down the field to have a shot at winning the 2-1 grind. On defense you will often have to accept fighting outnumbered to prevent being outmaneuvered. It's not that you can't win with these teams by any stretch, it's that you have to plan ahead, you don't have the agility to dodge away, nor the speed required to chase. Some general rules of thumb I use on defense when at a big speed disadvantage (elves, skaven, etc): 1) At least two players must be free or reasonably able to dodge (dwarf runners/blitzers in my case) that can reach the sideline opposite where the primary action is, even if it requires two gfi rolls to make it there. (Save defensive re-rolls for these dodges and gfis if at all possible). 2) At least two players must be free or reasonably able to dodge that can reach the player on the opposing team able to move furthest into your territory, even if it requires two gfi rolls to make it there. 3) Deploy your team wide and increase commitment to a play based on how heavily your opponent commits. Make him come to you, do not rush in to base everything and get knocked down for your efforts. He has to come through you, make him do it. If you commit to your opponent first, he will likely be able to run farther out of that scrum than you can chase. You're trying to make him commit to breaking through where you can bring your guard pieces to bear the most fruit. But be wary of the run backwards > hand-off > pass turn getting past your defense. See rules 1 and 2. Rules 1 and 2 require two players because a good opponent will recognize if you only have 1 threat on the ball on a stretch play and will blitz that player. You need the backup. (Sometimes a player will meet the criteria for rules 1 and 2 at the same time, in which case he counts as one player for both). The backup may not work anyway but you need the threats to keep your opponent from stalling for time or he's risking coughing up the ball. The entire opposing team is not going to risk dodging through your team to make your dodges difficult to get to the ball. A single gutter runner, on the other hand, might try to run the gauntlet or try to go around as many of these teams have difficult lines to break. You have to be set up to force him to score or risk losing the ball or they'll stall out the time for your counter attack drive.
I really like the change to Nurgle Rotters, the 4+ agility makes them immobile, but are they more challenging than Khemri? Pestigor blitz is usually 2-die without an assist, whilst the Blitz-Ra needs support to get the same dice. It makes every skeleton movement precarious and is mentally challenging. I had a Khemri coach in our league who after 25 odd games hung up his Khemrian boots after reaching 3 finals, citing the headache in calculating moves. He's moved on to Chaos and is flying! He told me how liberating it was to play Chaos with that sense of control coaching Khemri taught him. The impression I get is that playing Khemri will make you a better coach if you have the patience. Vampires are likely my next team, so thanks for the warning haha!!!
I've played a Nurgle team exclusively (in league format) for the past 4 years, with this year being the first season at BB2020. And yep, they're one hell of a challenge. You need patience, a lot of it. Not just for league, but in a game too. You have to think ahead, cut running angles, and take the right risks at the right moment. Can't say I've been racking up the wins, but it's making me a much, much better player. Nurgle is love!
What I take away from this video: Ben likes trolls! Edit: Making vamps 3+ Animal savagery instead of 4+ would probably balance the team a lot better and make more fun without making them too good :)
I actually forgot about nurgle when I posted my 5 for me personally they are also the most challenging to play. They are so challenging for me that I try to forget they exist ;p
Can I get a rule clarification, please? stunty/titchy/dodge combo. Using a snotling lineman as an example. They have AG 3+. So stunty means if they dodge out of a tackle zone they ignore the -1 for entering a square where they will be marked. Then titchy means they get a plus one to the roll making them 2+. Dodge gives them the reroll so 2++ (second plus is the free dodge reroll if I am correct). Do I understand this correctly?
Which adds a second question - I know a team can use multiple rerolls a turn but can a single player use two rerolls, assuming they different rolls. I get you can’t use dodge reroll than a team reroll on the dodge. But can you use a dodge skill reroll to make first dodge and then a team reroll to make your second (but different) dodge
Yeah!! You can! Like you say, you can’t roll the same dice twice, but if you fail dodge 1 - you can use dodge, then you pass... then second square, you fail the dodge roll again (😭), you’ve used your dodge Reroll... so you can use a team Reroll... Dodge 3, you can use another TRR, and so on!!
As a Nurlge player i'm massively surprised to see Nurgle at numbers 1 above Goblins and Halflings. They aren't the easiest but they certainly aren't the most challenging. I would hav thought something like Snotlings would have been number 1, or at least on this list somewhere.
I do think that Vampire teams would benefit from one less vampire and must take one vampire lord, or in layman's terms, a higher vampire. Essentially, a vampire with one extra armour and an additional skill. I also think a vampire would fit perfectly in a necromantic horror team
I've used snotlings a lot. Halflings are harder to manage than snotlings. For me snotlings feels like goblin that can dodge better and bother better, just that when it goes wrong... it goes really wrong for the xD
Mate I just discovered and love your content. Is there any chance you can nix the swaying backgrounds? They make me nauseous as all get out to the point that I can't watch your videos, which sucks for the tactics/formations ones. Call me soft but I can't hack it. Keep up the good work.
Hmmm... Good question Carthage! As challenging as they are - the Seekers and Khorndogs are excellent players, so you can get led astray for sure, but it's more forgiving than old Khorne!
Weird I find halflings pretty easy to win with. atleast playing in blood bowl 2. You get cheap chef to give you rerolls and take away opponents rerolls and usually enough money after chef to buy a star player or wizard. For me goblins just never work. My loony and bombodier always end up killing themselves. Fanatic always misses everyone on the line turn one and by turn 2 he's in the middle of the field with no one within 3 spaces of him.
Here's the thing with playing halflings, there's only one reason to do it.
You win: "Ha ha, you suck, I beat you with halflings."
You lose: "Of course I lost, I've only got halflings."
It's permission to gloat if you win and protection from criticism if you lose.
I play em because they are hilarious 😁,
I lost to halflings because of Griff :(
Initially I was wondering why ogres didn't make the list. Then I remembered you said "challenging" not "frustrating" 🤣 #ogrecoachlife
I personally love nurgle. A bit of a grind to win but amazing on defence. I do agree that its a different play style to most teams and that's where the challenge comes from
😁 Nurgle are perhaps a little underrated! We've seen lots of success with them recently, they just take patience!
Much patience! 😁
I'm currently near the top of my local league with Nurgle.
Nurgle, if played right is dangerous. If you play them well its hard for things to go wrong. That said, you can have things easily fall apart (omg pun) - especially if you as the player make a mistake.
I'm noticing a theme: Low to average move and low to average agility.
As a primarily dwarf coach I would agree this creates a lot of the challenge for dwarfs although dwarfs have the skills built into them to compensate, these teams do not. Primarily it's because, as you touched on, you have to think through your opponent's next turn, especially when on defense. One fast elf on the opposite side of the pitch from your team gets through and it might be 4 turns before you can force him to score. If you can't stop the drive you have to at least force the score quickly so you have time to get back down the field to have a shot at winning the 2-1 grind. On defense you will often have to accept fighting outnumbered to prevent being outmaneuvered.
It's not that you can't win with these teams by any stretch, it's that you have to plan ahead, you don't have the agility to dodge away, nor the speed required to chase. Some general rules of thumb I use on defense when at a big speed disadvantage (elves, skaven, etc):
1) At least two players must be free or reasonably able to dodge (dwarf runners/blitzers in my case) that can reach the sideline opposite where the primary action is, even if it requires two gfi rolls to make it there. (Save defensive re-rolls for these dodges and gfis if at all possible).
2) At least two players must be free or reasonably able to dodge that can reach the player on the opposing team able to move furthest into your territory, even if it requires two gfi rolls to make it there.
3) Deploy your team wide and increase commitment to a play based on how heavily your opponent commits. Make him come to you, do not rush in to base everything and get knocked down for your efforts. He has to come through you, make him do it. If you commit to your opponent first, he will likely be able to run farther out of that scrum than you can chase. You're trying to make him commit to breaking through where you can bring your guard pieces to bear the most fruit. But be wary of the run backwards > hand-off > pass turn getting past your defense. See rules 1 and 2.
Rules 1 and 2 require two players because a good opponent will recognize if you only have 1 threat on the ball on a stretch play and will blitz that player. You need the backup. (Sometimes a player will meet the criteria for rules 1 and 2 at the same time, in which case he counts as one player for both). The backup may not work anyway but you need the threats to keep your opponent from stalling for time or he's risking coughing up the ball. The entire opposing team is not going to risk dodging through your team to make your dodges difficult to get to the ball. A single gutter runner, on the other hand, might try to run the gauntlet or try to go around as many of these teams have difficult lines to break. You have to be set up to force him to score or risk losing the ball or they'll stall out the time for your counter attack drive.
I really like the change to Nurgle Rotters, the 4+ agility makes them immobile, but are they more challenging than Khemri? Pestigor blitz is usually 2-die without an assist, whilst the Blitz-Ra needs support to get the same dice. It makes every skeleton movement precarious and is mentally challenging.
I had a Khemri coach in our league who after 25 odd games hung up his Khemrian boots after reaching 3 finals, citing the headache in calculating moves. He's moved on to Chaos and is flying! He told me how liberating it was to play Chaos with that sense of control coaching Khemri taught him. The impression I get is that playing Khemri will make you a better coach if you have the patience.
Vampires are likely my next team, so thanks for the warning haha!!!
10:28 was waiting for that one.🙄
But was surprised at your 90s rhyming at 11:47😏
I've played a Nurgle team exclusively (in league format) for the past 4 years, with this year being the first season at BB2020. And yep, they're one hell of a challenge. You need patience, a lot of it. Not just for league, but in a game too. You have to think ahead, cut running angles, and take the right risks at the right moment. Can't say I've been racking up the wins, but it's making me a much, much better player.
Nurgle is love!
What I take away from this video: Ben likes trolls!
Edit: Making vamps 3+ Animal savagery instead of 4+ would probably balance the team a lot better and make more fun without making them too good :)
I actually forgot about nurgle when I posted my 5 for me personally they are also the most challenging to play. They are so challenging for me that I try to forget they exist ;p
Vampires sounds about right as most challenging. I would mention though that vampires are dead, or technically undead at least. Great video.
They are dead to me. Damn it, so much frustration...
Suffice to say, vampires suck *buh dum tiss*
The payoff for halflings isn't two treemen, it's the cheap master chef.
Thanks
Which companies models were you showing off for the Tomb Kings and Vampires? They looked amazing!
What about Slann/Kislev? They are a much better team after a few levels, but you still need to know when to Leap/Pogo and when to not waste RRs!
So Snotlings are easy then.
possibly op
I love nurgle. They rule. If you know how to play them they can be near unstoppable.
Not snotlings?
I just got Halflings as my first team and have only played about 6 games and have never lost, I tide once vs elf union.
Can I get a rule clarification, please? stunty/titchy/dodge combo. Using a snotling lineman as an example. They have AG 3+. So stunty means if they dodge out of a tackle zone they ignore the -1 for entering a square where they will be marked. Then titchy means they get a plus one to the roll making them 2+. Dodge gives them the reroll so 2++ (second plus is the free dodge reroll if I am correct). Do I understand this correctly?
Absolutely right!! 😍
@@BoneheadPodcast thanks Ben. But the 2++ only is one free dodge reroll then 2+ (unless you use a team reroll).
Which adds a second question - I know a team can use multiple rerolls a turn but can a single player use two rerolls, assuming they different rolls.
I get you can’t use dodge reroll than a team reroll on the dodge. But can you use a dodge skill reroll to make first dodge and then a team reroll to make your second (but different) dodge
Yeah!! You can! Like you say, you can’t roll the same dice twice, but if you fail dodge 1 - you can use dodge, then you pass... then second square, you fail the dodge roll again (😭), you’ve used your dodge Reroll... so you can use a team Reroll...
Dodge 3, you can use another TRR, and so on!!
Watch out for Prehensile Tail though 🙄 3++ is much worse than 2++
As a Nurlge player i'm massively surprised to see Nurgle at numbers 1 above Goblins and Halflings. They aren't the easiest but they certainly aren't the most challenging. I would hav thought something like Snotlings would have been number 1, or at least on this list somewhere.
Funny enough I love attition games, played nurgle from 40k to sigmas, including here.
I do think that Vampire teams would benefit from one less vampire and must take one vampire lord, or in layman's terms, a higher vampire. Essentially, a vampire with one extra armour and an additional skill. I also think a vampire would fit perfectly in a necromantic horror team
Oh hey, where did that Tomb King team come from? They look fantastic!
Snotlings didn't make it? I thought they were just Halflings with worse big guys and Bombardiers that don't get decent HMP anymore!
I've used snotlings a lot. Halflings are harder to manage than snotlings. For me snotlings feels like goblin that can dodge better and bother better, just that when it goes wrong... it goes really wrong for the xD
Shalom dude!
Played ogres for 2 leagues. Never won a game. But I did smash stuff up.
Hahaha that’s the goal with Ogres 😁 you’re a force of nature!!!
If used properly, Nurgle is one of the best defensive teams out there.
That being said, I am surprised to not see snots or Ogres on your list.
My snotlings last year in a league went a solid 0:5 win:lose.
I know it's not me because this year my skaven (underworld alliance + hakflem) went 5:0
Mate I just discovered and love your content. Is there any chance you can nix the swaying backgrounds? They make me nauseous as all get out to the point that I can't watch your videos, which sucks for the tactics/formations ones. Call me soft but I can't hack it. Keep up the good work.
I was thinking about ballnchain why doesn't it have milty block because hes swinging it in a cricle so he should be able to hit 8 players
You think khorne cracks this list?
Hmmm... Good question Carthage! As challenging as they are - the Seekers and Khorndogs are excellent players, so you can get led astray for sure, but it's more forgiving than old Khorne!
Played nurgle. Tentacles are useless unless you play vs str 2 team cause you need 4+ to hold str 3
Weird I find halflings pretty easy to win with. atleast playing in blood bowl 2. You get cheap chef to give you rerolls and take away opponents rerolls and usually enough money after chef to buy a star player or wizard.
For me goblins just never work. My loony and bombodier always end up killing themselves. Fanatic always misses everyone on the line turn one and by turn 2 he's in the middle of the field with no one within 3 spaces of him.
Slann/Kislev?
pro elves just implode no matter what
Halfling have a 49% winrate, right? Why the barrage of "forget about winning" and "just get lucky"?