The timberwolf/madcat has the cockpit above the actual mech because it is part of a mod. The modder did not want to do any extra work for erasing the cockpit.
This type of phenomenon is pretty prevalent in most games. You, the player are watching the action from a camera surrounded by a bounding box that handles collision.
Yes. There used to be a mod that fixed the scaling but it's discontinued and even if it was relevant, only the base game mechs were scaled and all the modded ones were not. It was a dope mod tho. I home mw5 clans will have a similarly dedicated modding scene. And I hope PGI actually makes a good base game, since base mw5 mercs is 5/10 at best. With mods it goes up to 7-8/10.
There is a mod called "Rescale to Lore Size" that actually still works, and it does modded mechs as well. Takes the Atlas from 16 meters to about 12, similar effect to other mechs, while lights stay nearly the same.
Interesting! Fun lore fact. The cockpit " glass " is actually transparent ferro-metall. Thats why you can take a few heavy shots to the cockpit. If it were plexi... gonzo by sneezing at the cockpit. Still wish we had option in settings to enable dynamic cockpit/ glass damage. There is some, like fire in the corners if left/right torso armor is gone. Also a bit more grime around the edges. Its hard to tell if there is " glass " around the cockpit frame edges in MW5m, except when its raining. MWO even have clearer telling of the ferro-glass edges
Its ferro-glass, because they have to the Scifi ferro onto everything. Its not really mentioned or described much in the old lore material. Guess the best comparison in the real world would be sapphire. But battletech is late 80's/early 90's retrofuturism after all.
Ray, use the in-game photo and camera mode by pressing CTRL SHIFT V. Use your controller to control the camera. This avoids the cockpit thing you’re seeing because you’re using unreal engine unlocker Press Select on your controller to attach the camera to the mech you’re viewing. This also allows you to make cooler and more dynamic footage
i do think you are missing the point of the video. he is showing the model of the mech while in first person. many games have distorted character models while in first person, and mw5 is no different.
I think a lot of mech games do this. In starsiege the cockpit bars would actually phase into existence when your mech (or HERC in the terminology of the universe) died
MWO doesn't have the same camera options and MWO is a MMO so harder to pull off... i played it for awhile till i got tired of patche changes i didn't agree with.
Well if this is also true in MWO this would explain why heatshots are so hard and only at a specific point on the windows... Well you know there was the quirk small cockpit and jumper seat so yeaaah.
MWO headshots are harder because the hitboxes are smaller, plus it's an online game. The fake cockpits is not what you are shooting at in either game since it's only your mech that has a fake cockpit, all other cockpits are the originals.
In MWO, the "fake" cockpit doesn't even show for people, since it's client-side. All other players see the original cockpit of your mech with it's hit boxes.
3D Modeler here: The reason they remove the heads of both the human body and mechs is because there is no way to keep them rendered where the player would be able to see out of them without MASSIVE levels of view obstruction. The mechs just are not correctly built to scale, or the designs they are based on where made from fantasy logic. Aka, impossible to create in a 100% immersive view while still keeping the original looks. It is both easier AND drastically faster to just de-render the heads and slap the camera view there. Its standard in every single game that has first person where you can see your body. If you did not de-render the heads, you would see phantom lines all over the place from the 3D geometry of the invisible mesh of the head you where looking out of. (Its call back-face culling.)
Apart from the fitting, I think the sizes of the cockpits shown make way more sense than on the original models. I always thought this vulnerable part is way oversized from a technical point of view. Truth is in reality you'd make the sights as small as possible, maybe even add blast doors in front of the windows and run the 'Mech solely on sensors until they were knocked out. Direct visual aiming should only be a last resort. Just look ad MBTs.
Early tanks used periscopes and viewports. Perhaps your idea will feature in 'mechs later on when the inner sphere stops killing itself long enough to invent something new. Remember that 99% of the 'mechs you're using are hundreds of years old.
Reminder, the glass isn't glass in battlemechs. It's the same exact material as the armor, just transparent. Transparent and instantly goes opaque when a laser hits it. There's no need for blast shields because it is a blast shield. It's vulnerable only because of game rules otherwise it'd have the same armor as the center torso
Have you heard of the Star wars transparasteeel or Star treks transparent aluminum (which actually exist today) the windows of battlemechs are likely made of a similar material though due to needing to see through it the armor may be less thick Or seeing as how the cockpit is hard to hit manufacturers didn't consider putting a load of armor on that part to save weight.
It's funny how many games utilize forced perspective and scaling like this. Besides making development easier and giving you a better view it also emphasis the size of the mechs to make them feel bigger.
HONESTLY, this is what I wish changed with Mechwarrior. Everything being fake and misplaced. Id love if the game did a way better job of making us feel like were actually in the mech and driving it. Everything from scale to the HUD item placement, etc.
i get the sentiment but every FPS games seperates the point of view of the camera from the in game caracter model for good reason it's nauseating there used to be this Vermintide 2 mod that i loved so mutch i just endured truw it and i did eventualy get used to it to but it still was far from being good enouf for a comercial release for your scaling issue you might wan't to look into this mod ruclips.net/video/jg2dTg2K0DU/видео.html I am thinking of trying it out myself but I am not really sold on it yet because the lore accurate models are kind of silly compared to an abrams like they really need to be towering behemoths to be intimidating and sell the idée that they are actualy dangerous
Gee, next thing you'll tell me is that no-clipping into the CT shows that the engines are fake, too! =P Joking aside, I honestly like the oversized 'shell' around the true cockpit. To me, it reinforces the idea that the cockpit is surrounded by some degree of armor. It also explains why the head hitboxes are so friggin' small and particular.
Compared to MWO, the hit boxes for heads in this game are massive. You can easily head shot King Crabs and riflemans/jagermechs with an AC10/20 or even med lasers.
Aren't those all modded mechs? I'm pretty sure if you looked at vanilla models, it wouldn't have the same wierd cockpit thing going on. This is just semi-lazy modding.
it's both sort of. Both modded and in-game mechs have a weird thing going on with their cockpits, they use same method, but if you look at the modded mechs it's more of just the full cockpit remade, so you're right it's kind of like semi-lazy modding.
this is how games work, you render as little as possible where you don't need to render it. games don't actually simulate reality, they give the illusion of it by clever use of space, perspective, textures etc. you'd think people would understand basics like this, but I suppose a lot don't. you'd be surprised just how abstract the design was for oldschool 2D games like side scrollers for the NES for example. look into it its very interesting.
Yeah, people think that games like GTA and RDR have the whole map generated at all times, when in reality, only a fraction of the map is generated to fill in the player's POV.
Noticed that the very first moment I played MW5. MWO does it better, whereas MW5 feels rushed and UE5 generic. Not that they couldn't, they just didn't care for scale of mechs and actual simulation, but that's PGI and we all know the PGI stories
The game is in fact rushed, plus they made this game without any prior experience with UE. Remember that MWO works on Crytek Engine. You are not a coder or a tech person, otherwise you would know that you can't just copy-paste all the code and expect the game to work flawlessly.
@petkofuchalski9809 never said that that should copy paste, i said they should care. They don't. But modders already did it so its not only achieveable but easier because, you know, its UEngine
@@Cizjut the moders fixed it because they did it in their free time, while PGI works within tight schedules and can make changes only approved by supervisors. The game also had infantry planned, just like MW3 but it was cut since the devs didn't have time. And again, the moders that work on the game probably have years of experience from there own jobs/projects, PGI doesn't have that experience.
The timberwolf/madcat has the cockpit above the actual mech because it is part of a mod.
The modder did not want to do any extra work for erasing the cockpit.
This type of phenomenon is pretty prevalent in most games. You, the player are watching the action from a camera surrounded by a bounding box that handles collision.
Some games simulate it, while most use trickery indeed
My man just discovered game development.
Next he will learn the camera in FPS games isn't where your head is.
Yeah, always thought that was kinda dumb.
These aren't from the game, these are mostly modded Mechs, except for the Warhammer.
Aren't Mechwarrior 5 mechs also scaled incorrectly? They are all much bigger than they should be.
Yes. There used to be a mod that fixed the scaling but it's discontinued and even if it was relevant, only the base game mechs were scaled and all the modded ones were not. It was a dope mod tho. I home mw5 clans will have a similarly dedicated modding scene. And I hope PGI actually makes a good base game, since base mw5 mercs is 5/10 at best. With mods it goes up to 7-8/10.
Well the OG version was a lot better but when it was released for consoles and steam the patch for the release messed it all up.
There is a mod called "Rescale to Lore Size" that actually still works, and it does modded mechs as well. Takes the Atlas from 16 meters to about 12, similar effect to other mechs, while lights stay nearly the same.
@@benjaminbays7427 does it actually work for modded mechs? How is it coded? It's not been updated for a while.
@@HalIOfFamer Pretty sure YAML mod has an option for lore-friendly rescale.
Interesting! Fun lore fact. The cockpit " glass " is actually transparent ferro-metall. Thats why you can take a few heavy shots to the cockpit. If it were plexi... gonzo by sneezing at the cockpit. Still wish we had option in settings to enable dynamic cockpit/ glass damage. There is some, like fire in the corners if left/right torso armor is gone. Also a bit more grime around the edges. Its hard to tell if there is " glass " around the cockpit frame edges in MW5m, except when its raining. MWO even have clearer telling of the ferro-glass edges
Its ferro-glass, because they have to the Scifi ferro onto everything. Its not really mentioned or described much in the old lore material. Guess the best comparison in the real world would be sapphire. But battletech is late 80's/early 90's retrofuturism after all.
I thought I heard some years back that it was a sapphire composite whatever?
What impressed me was the size of the real cockpit matches the landscape and highlights How the mechs are extremely oversized
lol quite true.
im more surprised the entire mech you're piloting is rendered, they didn't have to do it but they did.
Ray, use the in-game photo and camera mode by pressing CTRL SHIFT V. Use your controller to control the camera. This avoids the cockpit thing you’re seeing because you’re using unreal engine unlocker
Press Select on your controller to attach the camera to the mech you’re viewing. This also allows you to make cooler and more dynamic footage
i do think you are missing the point of the video. he is showing the model of the mech while in first person. many games have distorted character models while in first person, and mw5 is no different.
this explains why when you look up using the VR mod you see a screen above you, makes sense now.
I think a lot of mech games do this. In starsiege the cockpit bars would actually phase into existence when your mech (or HERC in the terminology of the universe) died
I wish MW5 had a true 3D cockpit like a flight sim with working buttons and levers.
Next: "MechWarrior 5 Horror Edition: The Headless Pilots!" 😎
Roland, the headless Urbie Pilot.
I like headless mechs better :P Mechwarrior 5 Horror Edition: Night of the Headless Mechs! or for fun sake Knight(s) of the Headless Mech(s).
yea the scaling is fucked up on the mechs in this game
Dunno if ya play MWO but If you play can you check MWO Cockpit?
The Atlas, at least, is most definitely modeled correctly. You can only damage the head (on the paper doll) by hitting the left eye.
MWO doesn't have the same camera options and MWO is a MMO so harder to pull off... i played it for awhile till i got tired of patche changes i didn't agree with.
1.5 minutes in and already I'm like.... *sigh* one of those. Lol
Well if this is also true in MWO this would explain why heatshots are so hard and only at a specific point on the windows...
Well you know there was the quirk small cockpit and jumper seat so yeaaah.
MWO headshots are harder because the hitboxes are smaller, plus it's an online game. The fake cockpits is not what you are shooting at in either game since it's only your mech that has a fake cockpit, all other cockpits are the originals.
In MWO, the "fake" cockpit doesn't even show for people, since it's client-side. All other players see the original cockpit of your mech with it's hit boxes.
That’s how cockpits work in most games.
So when the glass get hit, is it hitting the model glass or the cockpit glass?
The model one. The "fake" cockpit is only for the first person camera, while the bots and your co-op partners "see" the actual mech model.
Everyone already knows this. What’s next? The earth is actually round?
3D Modeler here: The reason they remove the heads of both the human body and mechs is because there is no way to keep them rendered where the player would be able to see out of them without MASSIVE levels of view obstruction. The mechs just are not correctly built to scale, or the designs they are based on where made from fantasy logic. Aka, impossible to create in a 100% immersive view while still keeping the original looks.
It is both easier AND drastically faster to just de-render the heads and slap the camera view there. Its standard in every single game that has first person where you can see your body. If you did not de-render the heads, you would see phantom lines all over the place from the 3D geometry of the invisible mesh of the head you where looking out of. (Its call back-face culling.)
Apart from the fitting, I think the sizes of the cockpits shown make way more sense than on the original models. I always thought this vulnerable part is way oversized from a technical point of view.
Truth is in reality you'd make the sights as small as possible, maybe even add blast doors in front of the windows and run the 'Mech solely on sensors until they were knocked out. Direct visual aiming should only be a last resort. Just look ad MBTs.
Early tanks used periscopes and viewports. Perhaps your idea will feature in 'mechs later on when the inner sphere stops killing itself long enough to invent something new. Remember that 99% of the 'mechs you're using are hundreds of years old.
Reminder, the glass isn't glass in battlemechs. It's the same exact material as the armor, just transparent. Transparent and instantly goes opaque when a laser hits it. There's no need for blast shields because it is a blast shield. It's vulnerable only because of game rules otherwise it'd have the same armor as the center torso
Have you heard of the Star wars transparasteeel or Star treks transparent aluminum (which actually exist today) the windows of battlemechs are likely made of a similar material though due to needing to see through it the armor may be less thick Or seeing as how the cockpit is hard to hit manufacturers didn't consider putting a load of armor on that part to save weight.
It's funny how many games utilize forced perspective and scaling like this. Besides making development easier and giving you a better view it also emphasis the size of the mechs to make them feel bigger.
HONESTLY, this is what I wish changed with Mechwarrior. Everything being fake and misplaced. Id love if the game did a way better job of making us feel like were actually in the mech and driving it. Everything from scale to the HUD item placement, etc.
i get the sentiment but every FPS games seperates the point of view of the camera from the in game caracter model for good reason it's nauseating there used to be this Vermintide 2 mod that i loved so mutch i just endured truw it and i did eventualy get used to it to but it still was far from being good enouf for a comercial release
for your scaling issue you might wan't to look into this mod
ruclips.net/video/jg2dTg2K0DU/видео.html
I am thinking of trying it out myself but I am not really sold on it yet because the lore accurate models are kind of silly compared to an abrams like they really need to be towering behemoths to be intimidating and sell the idée that they are actualy dangerous
😢😢😢😢😢😢
😊
Я подозревал это,особенно замечая скорость ударав ног о землю из кабины,или с видом от третьего лица.)
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
😊
Why do it like this? Why not just use the normal cockpit position on the mech, Hell it would be cool to see the other pilots
Performance. Plus, the mechs are not properly scaled, so for 90% of them you wouldn't be able to see what's Infront of you.
Gee, next thing you'll tell me is that no-clipping into the CT shows that the engines are fake, too! =P
Joking aside, I honestly like the oversized 'shell' around the true cockpit. To me, it reinforces the idea that the cockpit is surrounded by some degree of armor. It also explains why the head hitboxes are so friggin' small and particular.
Compared to MWO, the hit boxes for heads in this game are massive. You can easily head shot King Crabs and riflemans/jagermechs with an AC10/20 or even med lasers.
You mean mechs aren't real?
😂 lol stop resisting.
Aren't those all modded mechs? I'm pretty sure if you looked at vanilla models, it wouldn't have the same wierd cockpit thing going on. This is just semi-lazy modding.
it's both sort of. Both modded and in-game mechs have a weird thing going on with their cockpits, they use same method, but if you look at the modded mechs it's more of just the full cockpit remade, so you're right it's kind of like semi-lazy modding.
@@RaySavagesMechwarrior That's a fair point. Even with the vanilla models, there's no way you're actually "inside" the cockpit.
this is how games work, you render as little as possible where you don't need to render it. games don't actually simulate reality, they give the illusion of it by clever use of space, perspective, textures etc. you'd think people would understand basics like this, but I suppose a lot don't. you'd be surprised just how abstract the design was for oldschool 2D games like side scrollers for the NES for example. look into it its very interesting.
Yeah, people think that games like GTA and RDR have the whole map generated at all times, when in reality, only a fraction of the map is generated to fill in the player's POV.
i still to this sday think that they are muilty crew. and that there is meant to be 2-5 people in the mech at any give ntime
"they" as in pgi didnt make those, your using a mod and more then likely the mod is causing this.
Only the mad cat.
I blame the mech scale. They should be smaller
it's like godzilla. Each version keeps getting bigger.
Noticed that the very first moment I played MW5. MWO does it better, whereas MW5 feels rushed and UE5 generic. Not that they couldn't, they just didn't care for scale of mechs and actual simulation, but that's PGI and we all know the PGI stories
The game is in fact rushed, plus they made this game without any prior experience with UE. Remember that MWO works on Crytek Engine. You are not a coder or a tech person, otherwise you would know that you can't just copy-paste all the code and expect the game to work flawlessly.
@petkofuchalski9809 never said that that should copy paste, i said they should care. They don't. But modders already did it so its not only achieveable but easier because, you know, its UEngine
@@Cizjut the moders fixed it because they did it in their free time, while PGI works within tight schedules and can make changes only approved by supervisors. The game also had infantry planned, just like MW3 but it was cut since the devs didn't have time. And again, the moders that work on the game probably have years of experience from there own jobs/projects, PGI doesn't have that experience.
That's awful lol
Pgi is the real lie
the guy is using a mod