Up until this case with "Sybil" the general public was not even aware of MPD being possible... from my own experience I can relate to the disbelief. I did not speak to my own sister for over 10 years, because I did not trust her diagnosis..I believed it was only an excuse for her outrageous behavior. After her many years of treatment and eventually seeing her "well"...I have a new awareness and sympathy for all who suffer this horribly misunderstood disorder. We all cope differently to abuse.
This is not accurate. MPD/DID has captured the public’s attention more than once. The Three Faces of Eve is a good example before Sybil. Debbie is correct. There were only 90 speculative cases of it in 200 years before the book and TV movie about Sybil were released on a lager scale in 1973 and 1976. Sybil, aka Shirley Mason, wrote letters to her therapist discussing the multiple personalities being made up to please her. Dr. Wilbur was no stranger to unethical practices. She did lobotomies, electroshock and religious conversion. The junk science of repressed/recovered memory and multiple personalities was her next unethical venture. Sybil was a somewhat secularized story of demonic possession. The book cover stated it was the story of a woman possessed by multiple personalities. Dr. Wilbur’s notes and Sybils claims during therapy sessions - that involved an insane number of psychotropic drugs that cause vivid fantasies, hypnosis and a lot of suggestion on the part of the therapist - did not match the book. They had been highly sensationalized and falsified to appeal to an audience. Sybil was a true hysteric in the sense that she did anything she could to please her therapist, and again did admit this. She also became addicted to the many drugs used in therapy, as many women have, and said what she needed to keep the therapy going. I am sorry about your sister. I truly am. Any good psychologist will tell you that MPD/DID is most often created in patients by poorly trained or conspiratorial therapists. * They will also tell you that the junk science of MPD/DID operates as a well known and documented social contagion, especially among women and girls. After all, the allegedly true story of Sybil helped spawn and drive the Satanic Panic.
@@pollysshore2539 I was with you until your last statements. Clearly you're not educated. Iatrogenic, or doctor created D.I.D is a huge myth that is perpetuated by the media popularizing and sensationalizing this condition, Sybil being a great example. Any "good" therapist as you state, would actually tell you that D.I.D is a real and legitimate coping mechanism/disorder that is caused by a severe disruption in the development of a stable identity, and is recognized by the DSM 5 and has been documented, studied and proven for decades.
I disagree that Sybil's case is a hoax. Would it surprise this Miss Nathan to know that some of Shirley's childhood companions have confirmed some of the things in the book Sybil? i.e. Shirley's mother Mattie ridiculed Shirley and her husband as was cruel to both, was seen peering in neighbours windows after dark, was seen relieving herself in neighbours yards. She claims to have gone to college with Shirley and that Shirley would go out drinking and carousing and pass out in the class.
I am from Lexington, born and raised. From the age of 6 to the age of 11 my family lived 2 houses down from Shirley Mason(Sybil). Of course nobody knew that she was , who she was until after her death. She was a recluse for the most part, but when she did appear she was kind . Especially to the neighborhood children, giving candy and what not. I remember she did seem a little strange and when you did see her the style of dress and/or speech was different. So I believe she had multiple personality. The adults of my old neighborhood truly feel that she did as well. Once whom she really was came to light. It is also evident that despite her doctor's attempts at curing her, it was unsuccessful. At least from what we as her neighbors can conclude. Which is not uncommon with this affliction in even mild cases, to my understanding. So it seems that this lady just wanted to write and sell a book , discrediting a famous psych case. How else would she get anyone else to buy her dribble? Simple ride on the coat tails of someone's misfortune and fame. Lady get a clue you are the only phony around this case.
+Becki Green Not just her style of dress but her speech, just as depicted in the film. People that talk with a southern accent and then one day have on French silks and speak with a French accent tend to make you believe their is a mental defect of some kind. A person that appears one day to be a normal functioning older lady and the next wants to play with the neighborhood kids as if she is one of them. When one of your neighbors claim her name /profession is one thing then the next believes it is something else. Well if you do not think a grown person completely changing their style of dress and speech to a severe degree is a sign of something then your the stupid one. Point blank she was Sybil and if you had witnessed her behavior , narrow minded people like this author and yourself would not discount the story. But we thank you for your uneducated input anyways.
+Pattie Phillips Glad to have someone who actually knew her comment. When the people in your neighborhood saw these striking inconsistencies in her behavior, was there any resulting discussion that she might be "Sybil"? Or was it something that was already known?
No. Nobody knew as she went by a different name. Actually her real name was what she used ,Shirley Mason. All publications and documentaries call her Sybil to protect her identity when she was alive. Even after her death the name Sybil just stuck. There was talk about her being off or a little weird. Most just shrugged their shoulders at the situation. Ya know every neighborhood has a crazy lady or man in it. At least back then anyways. She was always kind and never threatening or harmful. It was not until they cleaned out her house after her death that people found out who she really was. Very sweet,cool but always seemed sad underneath. I hope she found peace in death. I will always remember Miss "M" as we called her.
My daughter was sexually abused by her father. She did develop another personality. It was that "other self" who ultimately did the disgusting things her father made her do. And FYI we went to court. She had to testify against her father and he served time in prison for what he did to her.
Becki, it's not like Reverse Yoself is her real name. We don't know where she's located so I'm pretty sure that it's safe for her to make that post. And I also find your attack on her credibility to be very shameful. You obviously have some trust issues. I hope you learn to be more accepting in the future.
I have to respond to this. It's ridiculous to have someone put out a book and try to refute what happened to someone else. DID is very real. It is NOT true that DID is rare. It IS true that it was rarely assessed in the earlier days.
Personally if anyone truly has DID it would 10/10 be Truddi Chase. The age her abs use started and how her book reads is extremely convincing. She’s honestly the most convincing case for it. I do sincerely believe DID exists. However it exists in 1% of the world’s entire population. Maybe even smaller than that.
The reality of MPD does not depend on whether Sybil is real or the result of an author’s imagination. This argument is missing the point. Some musical historians are now questioning whether Chopin died of Pulmonary Tuberculosis. If Chopin did not have TB, would that invalidate pulmonary tuberculosis as a legitimate medical disease? The disorder of MPD suffers in its authenticity because of our over-emphasizing the dramatic aspect, thereby distracting us from the real issue, which is the past trauma.
Most mental health professionals don't believe DID exists. As a mental health professional myself for almost 30 years I have asked hundreds. This is informal. The more educated and experienced the professional, the more likely they did NOT believe in the disorder. Those that did had very low education, or the few who had more education WERE looking for a case that made them stand out from all other professionals.
No. If Chopin had TB and suddenly the few years after TB increased by 10000% anyone with a reasonable mind would understand something was wrong. You're just stupid.
@@TerryUniGeezerPeterson It is not uncommon for a DID patient to acknowledge the diagnosis and later to deny it. For example, one alter may pop up and tell you that he/she disagrees with the diagnosis, because he/she does not acknowledge that others are present. Sometimes an alter feels that he/she is the only one around. This makes the pathology so intriguing. (David Yeung)
@@paddleed6176 If TB diagnosis has gone up so many times, it is because they have discovered the technique of staining the tubercle bacillus and finding it under the microscopic! (David Yeung)
I suffered physical, sexual, and emotional abuse as a child. So I, like many, have first hand knowledge. I am now 66; I've nearly recovered from it. What I've been noticing for the last four years is that people are projecting or self-referencing every time they speak. Since in this video, Nathan is only giving her opinion, I think she is doing exactly what she accuses the writer Schreiber of: hopefully writing a best seller of the next big thing-except a torn down big thing.
Read on Franklin Child ring (many books), you will know Sybil story is true, no need to be "exposed" CIA was behind MKultra project and that relates to Franklin scandal
I grew up in the 70's, so I remember what it was like. People today need to understand that the media (movies, tv) in those days were full of these "pop-psychology" and "tormented childhood demons-lurking-in-the-closet" sensationalism that made certain folks lots of money. Movies like "The Exorcist", "Carrie", "The Amityville Horror" (not to mention "Sybil"). Mental illness and child abuse are real problems, but too serious to leave to sensationalistic hucksters looking for a meal ticket.
You can't leave people in real trouble behind because of some hucksters looking for a meal ticket, or even analyst who expel you because things were difficult for them.
whats funny is she waited until Shirley died and Cornelia wilbur died. Cornelia did extensive research. her mistake was writing a book. it was a exaggerated book but when Shirley died there was alot of evidence in her drawings and diaries. had she or someone did this while Cornelia was alive id listen. but no she couldn't do that. PTSD is a real and it takes on many forms.
The woman who was Sybil collaborated with an author to tell her own side of the story, which corresponded with Dr. Wilbur's, so why is this woman so sure that it was all made up? She wasn't there during the sessions, so how can she know?
Funny how every time you talk about (Shirley Mason) you add more and more to her story to debunk her I think all you want 'Debbie Nathan' is people to BUY your book! I won't buy it..You remind Me of a ''Snake Oil Salesman" They are both dead now..So you can say whatever you want Right?
The author continues this theme throughout the book even into her notes pages. For example, instead of saying “Mason’s diary entry” she uses the terminology “All so-called diary material”. This shows the disbelief and utter disdain the author has for Sybil although she will tell you that she believes that she was misguided and used by Dr. Wilbur and Flora Rheta Shreiber.
she is saying the reason why women "developed" MPD was because they were "weak"? i definitely believe in MPD as i have a form of it myself.. and i believe the ability for anybody to develop this disease is because they are strong, there bodies resourcefuly handled trauma they would not have otherwise been able to survive from. How dare you discount something especially if you've never experienced it yourself!
MPD is not agreed upon by the entire psychiatric community. When Sybil was diagnosed, there still wasn't a lot of scholarship on the subject matter. This book doesn't explain Sybil's blackouts and the fact that so much of her memories (from childhood) were missing from the core personality.
It's amnesia from the alters or other personality manifest that alters hold those memories and Sybil would not do that explain the memory loss or blackouts
The questions and doubts are valid. Too bad that Debbie Nathan's book has too many sensationalist sides to it, that she finds it necessary to ridicule 'Sybil' as well as her psychiatrist on personal levels. I also saw Nathan's lecture. Why diss a person by implecations of their personal life like marriage, family life and intelligence? Why couldn't Nathan just let the facts speak for her?
riccardobruero Because she has her own motives for writing this book.. getting big-paid from the pedophile protection group , the False memory foundation...most likely. Apparently this woman wants the laws regarding child sexual abuse relaxed (even more than now!?).
+riccardobruero some of the 'facts' Nathan referenced turned out not to be facts at all, like the statement on the statement on the dust jacket of the first edition claiming Nathan was the "first person" to examine the public archives with the Sybil records, Dr Patrick Suraci's website has Simon and Schuster's response agreeing to change the wording in later editions, he also found false references references to Flora Schreiber's sex life on page 73, scans are also online
@@TraumadissociationCom interesting.people have said that Debbie Nathan's book is open for criticism.i read it three times.but I still believe that shirley Mason was disturbed and had a troubled childhood.
something she also fails to realize is there are a great deal of male survivors but the sad truth is males are thought to be strong and brave and not to cry or show whats inside so a lot of males with DID don't talk about it because in a lot of cases from our own personal experience they are just as scared if not more that the "Bad/icky people " will find out and hurt them again or hurt the people they love again. SO we believe there's almost as many males with DID as females.
Also Too, Since Men Are Made To Hold In Information, About Abuse, I Believe, Some Of Them "Act Out" Their Abuse...This May Be Where A Lot Is " "Serial Criminals", Come From!!!
And by the way, if men did have DID, by definition they wouldn’t be able to control whether or not they talk about it, because it would be someone else talking about it.
What about the abuse suffered at the hands of her mother and subsequently covered up by the family physician? True or false? Dr Wilbur supposedly uncovered it during her research into Sybil's past so why wasn't it followed up and the Family GP charged?
Sybil (Shirley Mason), was not abused by her mother. Her mother was very overprotective of her because she was a frail child both physically & emotionally. When she left home for college she had great difficulty taking care of herself. When Dr. Wilbur found her she lead Shirley down the path of MPD. However, she didn't have it. Shirley responded to the doctor's suggestions out of her desperate need for approval & need to be taken care of.
stephen connell The proof as I understand it was her session notes with Sybil and clearly they were misleading. Because Sybil was so easily manipulated and easily suggestible under hypnosis, Sybil played out the personalities. Look up the life of Shirley Mason.
You are spot on Tinkerbell6393 Dr Edgar concocted the whole story to benefit herself and her career. She manipulated everything and should have been thrown out of the profession..
Were there official gynecological records for Sybil? If there was scarring on her uterus, then maybe the "psychotic mother's" abuse was in fact real. Or it was a fabrication in this particular case. Multiple Personality Disorder is a real condition, however. It is not a mental illness. It is a trauma response/coping mechanism, in response to severe childhood abuse before the age of 8, whilst the brain is still plastic enough to create "alters".
It's now referred to as "Dissociative Identity Disorder." The old name, MPD, had too many people believing (or claiming) that they were possessed by demons, aliens, or whatnot other outside entities. (－‸ლ)
I also know a Dr that knew Dr. Wilbur, Sybil's psychiatrist. I'm sure that some of it may have not been true, but is that even important? What should be important is the pain that a child went through, and how hard it was for Shirley (not Sybil) to put her life together. Let's remember her strength and will power to survive, & not downplay what happened to her. And yes, just in case someone wants to know - I am in the field of mental health & I have credentials.
Very resounding point! I'm seeing a mental health professional to heal from my childhood abuse and trauma! The first time I sat with her and minimized my own trauma by saying it wasn't as bad as others she stopped me and said trauma is trauma! It doesn't matter if you nearly drowned in a bathtub or the Pacific Ocean the fact of the matter is you almost drowned!
Private message? Incorrect, look below. I refuse to continue talking with someone who has no clue what-so-ever of what it is like to be a survivor of severe child abuse. Additionally I don't like to continue carrying on a conversation with someone who is obviously lacking in a well rounded education
So how many of YOUR books are you hoping to sell? Perhaps you are the one with an agenda and are jealous of millions of money they had made on the book Sybil, and so now she hopes to do the same with her book.
Faces hidden in the shadows hide the most abusive horrendous things that happened to the original main person DID’s is true no matter what anyone says!! It’s REAL & living it is total 💯 HELL!! This woman is a non believer but never walked in someone’s shoes that have always lived in that HELL!! Her words really anger me!!
Nathan rummaged through reams of therapist's notes - which were sealed - she has them unsealed - digs out the most titillating stories - to retell for the entire world to read - a retelling of each - in a tone where her voice sounds almost 'excited'. creepy, intrusive, sick. Her point - that every survivor with DID goes to t, recounts similar sexually charged stories - encouraged by the t - who helps them 'make personalities'. Mason? OMG - how very sad.
I believe that you created Personalities not only as a child but as you grow, to escape the reality of being hurt and judged. I was sexually abused, physically abused, mentally abuses, and emotionally abused. I don't know if I have DID, I am bipolar that's all I know.
How can you fake DID? Its hard to keep up different personalities, let alone have fake personalities that are completely different from the main personality. Just to blow this disorder away is ignorant as the mind is capable of so much. I do believe there is such a disorder as DID. Also, having imaginary friends is not normal.
It's a shame someone comes along to say a severely traumatized individual is faking it for attention. Sounds like a strictly behaviorists individual making these claims and we know the trauma some of them doled out in the name of science. Try studying the disorder and having a client with this before making such claims.
It's unfortunate to argue that DID/MPD doesn't exist, rather than being open minded about the human mind - and its possibilities to cope with traumas an distress. This video doesn't contribute to the discussion of DID in a constructive way, given what the field of modern science do know about coping mechanisms and traumatic experiences.
It is not unfortunate. From a scientific perspective we MUST question it. Mental health treatment is based on science, not philosophy. If you want an open mind to accept anything study philosophy. If you want mental health research - SCIENCE - be a skeptic.
So does that mean anything with a brain can get this disorder?? So when a lion attacks a herd of zebra's in the wild the only way to deal with their "trauma", is to inherently develop coping mechanisms like DID because they just can't handle the pressure of being hunted by lions? Many people in the world suffer horrific abuse and trauma in all parts of the world but not all of these people Develop "ALTS".Trauma is a natural part of life. And like Jeff Bryson said in science you DO have to be sceptical about everything especially when funding is involved.
interesting book but just what was the purpose of it? Why drag up Shirley, Wilbur and Schreiber after all this time? What is Nathan's agenda? I found it more tabloid than a true fact book. Her hate of Wilbur and her contempt for Shirley and Flora RS just leap off the pages.
I've just finished reading this book. Ms. Nathan does not hide her dislike of Dr. Wilbur, and she fails to draw a distinction between Wilbur and the crude treatment methods of psychiatry between the 30's to 60's. That being said, today Dr. Wilbur's conduct would have cost her licence and probably landed her in jail. Ms. Nathan appears dead on in disproving Shirley Mason's abuse history and correctly reflects that Ms. Mason recanted her MDP to Dr. Wilbur, who chose to ignore her.
Anxiety, depression, and imaginary playmates are some of the most common symptoms of D.I.D. What compels certain individuals to so vehemently attempt to discount the myriad affects of trauma? I wish that I could consider it unfathomable to imagine that any 'professional' could be so profoundly obtuse or morally bankrupt and yet how common it is. It seems that a prerequisite for being in the 'mental health' field is profound dysfunctionality. There is a heinous agenda. I can't think of any other word than that apart from evil. - - - Dissociative disorders didn't suddenly spring up as a result of this movie - it simply became safer to speak about the atrocities that many parents inflict on their children and the understandable consequences of those acts - - - These abominable people are apologists for abusers. That parents commit grievous injuries to their offspring is not controversial. It is denied by those who hadn't the strength to recognize, let alone deal with, their own trauma.
All in all, if you read the book critically and don’t buy into the author’s manipulation of facts and remember that none of the three woman she tries to condemn are here to dispute any of her claims, I think the book actually can be taken one of two ways… either as a really good book of fiction itself OR as proof that Sybil was true and that her primary guide through this thing we now know as D.I.D. did they very best she could knowing the time in which she experienced the things she did.
Interesting, but too many generalisations.. How does she know that there weren't multiple personality cases "throughout the history of mankind"? Child abuse wasn't recognised as abuse for centuries (for example) so we could say that child abuse never existed until the 19th century, which would be an erroneous statement. I think that this woman is wrapping the whole case up far too easily & neatly, but who knows the truth really? I don't. Who can say that this woman doesn't want a bestseller too?
This is a load of bunk! Growing up in a time when people would go into 'denial' about child abuse and there was no authority to turn to, does not mean it didn't happen. I HAD (witnessed) friends that were abused to the point where they showed signs of multiple personalities. Why weren't sex offenders recognized up until the 60's? Unless you've been through it, don't talk like the expert you AREN'T!!
This is a disturbing movie.I'm not saying that it's a bad movie,just very sad and such a shame that Sybil had to go thru all of these personalities.Shame on her mother!
futhermore, at the time of nathan's exposure, neither wilbur nor mason were available to dispute or concede. it's my understanding that all of dr wilbur's files were destroyed which also means that the information she received was afforded to her by psychiatrists who did not spend a significant amount of time w/ mason, thereby making their acquisitions merely hearsay. we may never know the truth, but 1 thing's certain, mason definitely had some issues & dr. wilbur helped her function w/in them.
I believe Sybil had IDD and the Dr encouraged it. But she definitely had something or a split. I think the Dr wanted more from her and put more ideas on what was already there.
I have a Masters in Experimental Psychology and a PhD in Clinical/Developmental Psychology. I did my Post-Doc working with Axis II populations. I currently work for my state's Department of Mental Health in policy and quality management and teach. I have 9 publications, 2 of which are on the clinical implications of modern neuroscience. And, it would be cruel and inhumane to make me sit through three more postings of 1980's psycho-babble.
I'm not a phys major (in fact I'm a bio Major) and I watched two particular law and order series dealing with this. One had a woman with severe MPD but they found out she was acting all along to get what she wanted and another in which a psychiatrist induced a young girl with drugs, to feel like she was sexually abused by her father. Keeping in mind that law and order is fiction (mostly), I feel like you're right in that 1. psychiatrists can induce these kinds of thoughts
@@MikeWildfrog so that they keep going. It’s business, the customer aka patient has a demand. The doctor supplies with his suggestive thoughts no matter how questionable or offer prescribed drugs. If one approach doesn’t work he’ll treat you with another
Hung up on a word are you? Seems this is what the entire book is about, Sybil Exposed is a writer who is hung up on a notion which is her own failings to understand the context or presentation of a story.
This would be so much more believable if two things hadn't occurred. #1, there were no attempts to "expose" Sybil until after the three main participants in the story had died and couldn't defend themselves. #2, the main antagonist (I can't remember his name) was involved in the defense of 3 men who had been accused of child molesting by their older victims, 2 of whom were claiming DID and the 3rd using recovery of suppressed memories. The doctor had to disprove DID to have any chance to help the men and lawyers who hired him in order to win their cases.
Additionally, people who have been abused and don't get help have been known to be hushed about it. However, people who have received much counseling and psychiatric help from well educated psychologists and psychiatrists are willing to share their experience because they know it will help people who are willing to learn and grow.
This is a horrible misrepresentation of a very serious and real disorder. I take a real offense to someone coming along and trying to say that this is all false. I have studied this for years, and I personally know one of the doctors that knew Dr. Wilbur, Sybil's doctor. Yes, there was some hype, after all, it was made into a movie. However, there is documented evidence that shows the traumatic lasting effects of severe, persistent child abuse, as well as how the mind processes trauma.
My first and continuing thought in all of this is “Why does this author want to write a book that could hurt so many people?” I have my thoughts on this but never find the answer in the book. It begins in the introduction that “Debbie Nathan gives proof that the allegedly true story was largely fabricated.” and goes onto build what looks like a horror story of ghoulish proportions.
I don’t believe this woman should be ostracized for delving into the situation and exposing how Shirley was used. I of course read the book back then. It was a fascinating read, but a lot because of the horrible abuse it was said she suffered. It was so awful and unbelievable. And since I suffered from some mental problems and abuse myself I could relate to the story. But I was really horrified by the abuse and it was hard to take. It was haunting. I have not heard if this abuse actually took place or not. I actually hope not. The book was very well written by someone with an amazing hairdo! You can never tell a book by its cover. When I first heard that this book was somewhat of a fake, I was disappointed because I had been fooled and I had been so emotionally affected by it. But I cannot blame others for bringing reality to light. The sad thing is that Shirley, who actually had problems and needed help, was used and abused by her psychiatrist.
@MrMap4921 The fact that Nathan added "sexy" in this context is to me a red flag of her own denial. An example of projection I mentioned above. Children that are sexually abused often have mixed feelings. "It felt good and I didn't want it" If the abuse happened near puberty, it might be remembered as "sexy".
Science should be taken with a grain of salt as far as women are concerned? Over simplified and miraculous? There is nothing simple about DID/MPD. It is not a miraculous answer to the question of woman's changing role in society. How dare she speak of "sexy" when she is wholly embracing the sensationalism of promoting her own "Hail to my V, Hey look at Me!" exposé? Usually profound ignorance of this sort inspires pity in me, but this kind of irresponsible, careless BS can do serious damage. It is still very difficult, even in the 21st century, for people with any kind of mental health issue to seek help or tell loved ones what they are going through. There is still a lot of shame and fear. Many people are isolated and alone; then they read books like Sybil and they don't feel so singular for a moment. Maybe long enough to contact a professional or just someone, anyone, that might help them. No one has the right, especially this despicable scandalmonger, to come along and naysay science and try to discredit people who aren't here to defend themselves. Debbie Nathan, before you consider writing another book, please consider the following first: I Never Promised You a Rose Garden is only semi-autobiographical and it isn't spooky old Mr. Science using arguments over contracted cultivation to say that P.M.S. causes schizophrenia or some crazy thing like that.
The author had been accused of portraying things improperly in the book and was not taking criticism well. This includes the fact that since the book has been out people are fact-checking the book and finding major errors in her work. A specific reference I can quote is one where she misquotes someone from the ISSTD. This person has written a letter advising what she actually stated to the author.
I agree that it is interesting that this book appears after the principles have died. Dr. Wilbur, Sybil and the writer that co wrote the book with Dr. Wilbur. I believe that its some sort of effort to discredit the reality of both the severity of child abuse and its horrendous and devastating aftermath.
in my opinion, there's little fallacy in that book "Sybil." the fraud was committed by the psychiatric industry, itself, when every psychiatrist and their brother was looking to cash in on the new craze created by the book. thanks for the video.
I don't think that anyone should be making assumptions about this unless they are an expert, either these commenters or this woman if she doesn't have a degree. I'm almost positive MPD exists, and so Sybil's case was either real or exaggerated. I think this lady, however, is just contradicting to contradict and so I cannot believe her. It seems as though she thinks that anything that dramatic has to be a scandal, but that's not always the case.
All the experts agree that severely abused children often dissociate from that abuse, especially sexual abuse, They go somewhere in their mind or "blank out" as they call and many do not remember the abuse, they get up and go to school in the morning as if nothing happened. Maybe Shirley created imaginary people to cope with the terrible terrible childhood she had.
I'm incredibly lucky that I only have severe ptsd from it cause I could have ended up like sybil! My mom never got me therapy of any kind in my teen years people had told her I had severe issues that I needed help with! I didn't even get to start healing till my 30s I'm 38 now! My mom knew if I got therapy I'd " tattle tale" on her I'd be removed from her and she would no longer be able to get welfare when I was younger ! even when I aged out of being able to draw benefits from me ! She still denied me help because she knew people would tell her she was the cause of my trauma and she couldn't and wouldn't stand for anyone telling her what she put me through was wrong she. If they found out about her abusing me shed be held accountable she was a textbook narcissist and abuser ! Luckily she died when I was 7 months pregnant!
As I asked and you ignored: WHY didn't Dr. Wilbur present her evidence of Sybil's supposed MPD in a Peer Reviewed Psychiatric Journal? That's basic science. That's my point: the Dr. DID NOT have Sybil's case reviewed. Now it is obvious why: because it would not have stood up to peer review. One doesn't have to be "a trained scientist" to parse bad research. If you actually are a scientist, you sound like a poor one, much like Dr. Wilbur, apparently.
This lady is wrong. There have always been abused and dissociated people....for once they could reveal themselves and to people who might understand....What's wrong with cravings of love and care. And the doc didn't invent the personalities....they came out as Sybil remembered.
Amazing. Every word you said was wrong. MPD was only described as a disorder once, about 75 years prior to Sybil. This was during a time when the functioning of the human mind was not well understood and the human brain was a flat out mystery. As for craving attention and love, nothing wrong with that, except when it leads to the simulation of symptoms which makes the client worse. And, roll playing to get your doctor's attention doesn't make the rolls you are playing real people. It does mean you are not a real patient and your doctor isn't a real doctor.
Abuser Debbie Nathan , I believe Sybil had MPD/DID. As many children that are abused on a regular basis, they can develop MPD that have the will to survive.
@@louwinters508 well in a way she did make it up because it was her brain that split into these personalities due to trauma. Those personalities were all her.
It's truly tragic when one who gets a little bit of education thinks they know all about another and another's said diagnosis. Perhaps you should look into the aspect that Shirley Ardell Mason, a.k.a. Sybil was validated through her many styles of paintint/drawing. It's been proven that one personality could not have painted the various styles and yet they were painted by the same hand. Perhaps you should do YOUR research.
I think Dr. Wilbur's conduct in the case of Ms. Mason is a line by line "how not to" of how to treat a client. In fact, its amazing Dr. Wilbur didn't manage to kill Ms. Mason. Dr. Wilbur had no boundaries with the client, either physical, emotional, or financial. She addicted her to massive doses of drugs and treated her without consulting others. Dr. Wilbur was uncritical of what she was told under the most questionable of circumstances.
Everyone has many personalities. Every situation requires you to fit into character and play a roll. If you associate strongly with a group you can easily be manipulated into doing things you wouldn't normally do. It's quite common for a human to adapt logic and emotions once they on a "side". The human mind isn't something that understands truth or is aware of situations that undermine its integrity.
Everyone's looking for something except the poor patient whom just searched for relief. Mental illness and social disorders are not something to mock for in the end, we all lose.
It is my belief that D.I.D is a very real experience a person may be having with a very real but ethereal world. Imagination and suggestibility paired with a strong desire to escape a fearful and abusive environment, creates a codependency between the living and those who have passed, but remain earth bound. Spirits are quite willing to take the wheel by taking over the body for brief periods when the person they are possessing wants to escape the discomfort. And of course they often make a wreck of things when they do ... seeking things they don't have the option to have over there.
I'm still on the fence about whether or not DID is even real. From my experience of reading, viewing and talking to people with DID, many people with "DID" exhibit (among other personality disorders) histrionic personality disorder, in that they often display attention seeking behavior and will go to great lengths to sustain or reach the DID diagnosis. The cornerstone case that caused an explosion of DID, MPD diagnoses was proven to be a fraud, not that it automatically means that all cases are fraudulent, but it definitely throws a wrench in the works. Iatrogenesis has also been noted to play a large role in a person's DID diagnosis. One thing I find odd about many with DID is how forward they are with discussing their diagnosis and childhood traumas. The majority of people with childhood trauma generally are hesitant or even completely refrain from talking about past abuse, whereas many with DID will bring it up and go into great detail without any kind of provocation. This raises a red flag in my opinion. They have also failed to properly correlate childhood trauma to DID and yet that has become the go-to cause in many eyes. Sure, more recent psychology majors/graduates do accept DID as a proper diagnosis but I think there are many reasons for this. I don't think new and recurring students are being skeptical enough. There is no reason not to be skeptical in psychology, because attempting to falsify your own views or even DSM-V established views will only lead to a more honest and credible position. The educational setting is another reason that I think many psychology majors are just accepting this as a legit diagnosis. We see this indoctrination type behavior in all aspects of our lives just due to the authoritative nature of how we are taught. Just look at how many people believe in the supernatural powers of religious figures and iconography, even though there is very little positive evidence (even when most is to the contrary) to suggest it being the case. If your peers believe X to be true, then you are far more likely to believe X to be true as well. Very rarely is the student ever critical of the teacher or the material being taught, when they absolutely should be. In a way, it is very indicative to the findings of the Asch Conformity experiment, in which people surrounded by their peers started to perceive blatantly wrong answers to be correct in the face of peer pressure/fear of being on the outside. I'm not saying that I am 100% certain that DID does not exist and is not a legit diagnosis, but I just don't see the evidence to properly conclude that it is. I actually see the evidence pointing towards other personality disorders rather than DID. If DID is some kind of delusion or underlying symptom of some other psychological condition, then how psychologists are currently treating patients under the DID diagnoses could be potentially more harmful than helpful.
@independentMomma1 - correction: I had friends that were beaten and sexually abused, ONE that demonstrated multiple personalities and yes.. she was TERRIBLY abused!
Don't get caught up in all of the out of context "facts" in the book, the glaring agendas and the inflammatory language. I first learned about MPD by watching and reading the book The Three Faces of Eve. Eve, Chris Sizemore, actually did not integrate and had several more personalities than just Eve White, Eve Black and Jane. I believe the book Sybil, I don't care what this Nathan person has to say. I've read where two of Shirley's childhood friends confirmed Mrs Mason's cruelty.
One another one of her pages a poster asked her so the part in the book where Dr. Wilbur visited Shirley's childhood doctor wasn't true? And Nathan answered yes that was completely made up as the doctor was dead. Well no where in the book does it state that Wilbur met with S's childhood doctor, that was creative license by the producer of the mini series Sybil.
It's about how each of us has had the experience of dissociating to some degree, and dissociation happens in various degrees - from sitting and watching a movie or reading a book and losing track of time, which we all do, and actually losing time for hours or even days.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Up until this case with "Sybil" the general public was not even aware of MPD being possible... from my own experience I can relate to the disbelief. I did not speak to my own sister for over 10 years, because I did not trust her diagnosis..I believed it was only an excuse for her outrageous behavior. After her many years of treatment and eventually seeing her "well"...I have a new awareness and sympathy for all who suffer this horribly misunderstood disorder. We all cope differently to abuse.
This is not accurate. MPD/DID has captured the public’s attention more than once. The Three Faces of Eve is a good example before Sybil.
Debbie is correct. There were only 90 speculative cases of it in 200 years before the book and TV movie about Sybil were released on a lager scale in 1973 and 1976.
Sybil, aka Shirley Mason, wrote letters to her therapist discussing the multiple personalities being made up to please her.
Dr. Wilbur was no stranger to unethical practices. She did lobotomies, electroshock and religious conversion. The junk science of repressed/recovered memory and multiple personalities was her next unethical venture. Sybil was a somewhat secularized story of demonic possession. The book cover stated it was the story of a woman possessed by multiple personalities.
Dr. Wilbur’s notes and Sybils claims during therapy sessions - that involved an insane number of psychotropic drugs that cause vivid fantasies, hypnosis and a lot of suggestion on the part of the therapist - did not match the book. They had been highly sensationalized and falsified to appeal to an audience.
Sybil was a true hysteric in the sense that she did anything she could to please her therapist, and again did admit this. She also became addicted to the many drugs used in therapy, as many women have, and said what she needed to keep the therapy going.
I am sorry about your sister. I truly am. Any good psychologist will tell you that MPD/DID is most often created in patients by poorly trained or conspiratorial therapists. * They will also tell you that the junk science of MPD/DID operates as a well known and documented social contagion, especially among women and girls.
After all, the allegedly true story of Sybil helped spawn and drive the Satanic Panic.
@@pollysshore2539
I was with you until your last statements. Clearly you're not educated. Iatrogenic, or doctor created D.I.D is a huge myth that is perpetuated by the media popularizing and sensationalizing this condition, Sybil being a great example.
Any "good" therapist as you state, would actually tell you that D.I.D is a real and legitimate coping mechanism/disorder that is caused by a severe disruption in the development of a stable identity, and is recognized by the DSM 5 and has been documented, studied and proven for decades.
I disagree that Sybil's case is a hoax. Would it surprise this Miss Nathan to know that some of Shirley's childhood companions have confirmed some of the things in the book Sybil? i.e. Shirley's mother Mattie ridiculed Shirley and her husband as was cruel to both, was seen peering in neighbours windows after dark, was seen relieving herself in neighbours yards. She claims to have gone to college with Shirley and that Shirley would go out drinking and carousing and pass out in the class.
I am from Lexington, born and raised. From the age of 6 to the age of 11 my family lived 2 houses down from Shirley Mason(Sybil). Of course nobody knew that she was , who she was until after her death. She was a recluse for the most part, but when she did appear she was kind . Especially to the neighborhood children, giving candy and what not. I remember she did seem a little strange and when you did see her the style of dress and/or speech was different. So I believe she had multiple personality. The adults of my old neighborhood truly feel that she did as well. Once whom she really was came to light. It is also evident that despite her doctor's attempts at curing her, it was unsuccessful. At least from what we as her neighbors can conclude. Which is not uncommon with this affliction in even mild cases, to my understanding. So it seems that this lady just wanted to write and sell a book , discrediting a famous psych case. How else would she get anyone else to buy her dribble? Simple ride on the coat tails of someone's misfortune and fame. Lady get a clue you are the only phony around this case.
Because her style of dress and speech were different that makes you think Sybil had MMP or DID. That's the dumbest comment I've read.
+Becki Green
Not just her style of dress but her speech, just as depicted in the film. People that talk with a southern accent and then one day have on French silks and speak with a French accent tend to make you believe their is a mental defect of some kind. A person that appears one day to be a normal functioning older lady and the next wants to play with the neighborhood kids as if she is one of them. When one of your neighbors claim her name /profession is one thing then the next believes it is something else. Well if you do not think a grown person completely changing their style of dress and speech to a severe degree is a sign of something then your the stupid one. Point blank she was Sybil and if you had witnessed her behavior , narrow minded people like this author and yourself would not discount the story. But we thank you for your uneducated input anyways.
+Pattie Phillips Glad to have someone who actually knew her comment. When the people in your neighborhood saw these striking inconsistencies in her behavior, was there any resulting discussion that she might be "Sybil"? Or was it something that was already known?
No. Nobody knew as she went by a different name. Actually her real name was what she used ,Shirley Mason. All publications and documentaries call her Sybil to protect her identity when she was alive. Even after her death the name Sybil just stuck. There was talk about her being off or a little weird. Most just shrugged their shoulders at the situation. Ya know every neighborhood has a crazy lady or man in it. At least back then anyways. She was always kind and never threatening or harmful. It was not until they cleaned out her house after her death that people found out who she really was. Very sweet,cool but always seemed sad underneath. I hope she found peace in death. I will always remember Miss "M" as we called her.
Pattie Phillips read Sybil Exposed.
My daughter was sexually abused by her father.
She did develop another personality. It was that "other self" who ultimately did the disgusting things her father made her do.
And FYI we went to court. She had to testify against her father and he served time in prison for what he did to her.
Becki, it's not like Reverse Yoself is her real name. We don't know where she's located so I'm pretty sure that it's safe for her to make that post. And I also find your attack on her credibility to be very shameful. You obviously have some trust issues. I hope you learn to be more accepting in the future.
@@karenokeefe1900 Only a fool blindly trusts what people with something to gain say online.
bs
@@vo1134And how would you know? You weren’t there, you aren’t that daughter!
I have to respond to this. It's ridiculous to have someone put out a book and try to refute what happened to someone else. DID is very real. It is NOT true that DID is rare. It IS true that it was rarely assessed in the earlier days.
Personally if anyone truly has DID it would 10/10 be Truddi Chase. The age her abs use started and how her book reads is extremely convincing. She’s honestly the most convincing case for it. I do sincerely believe DID exists. However it exists in 1% of the world’s entire population. Maybe even smaller than that.
@tomboymjr• there is a book about this case it's called "When Rabbit Howls"
The reality of MPD does not depend on whether Sybil is real or the result of an author’s imagination. This argument is missing the point. Some musical historians are now questioning whether Chopin died of Pulmonary Tuberculosis. If Chopin did not have TB, would that invalidate pulmonary tuberculosis as a legitimate medical disease?
The disorder of MPD suffers in its authenticity because of our over-emphasizing the dramatic aspect, thereby distracting us from the real issue, which is the past trauma.
Most mental health professionals don't believe DID exists. As a mental health professional myself for almost 30 years I have asked hundreds. This is informal. The more educated and experienced the professional, the more likely they did NOT believe in the disorder. Those that did had very low education, or the few who had more education WERE looking for a case that made them stand out from all other professionals.
No. If Chopin had TB and suddenly the few years after TB increased by 10000% anyone with a reasonable mind would understand something was wrong. You're just stupid.
Not real. She admitted that she faked the disorder.
@@TerryUniGeezerPeterson It is not uncommon for a DID patient to acknowledge the diagnosis and later to deny it. For example, one alter may pop up and tell you that he/she disagrees with the diagnosis, because he/she does not acknowledge that others are present. Sometimes an alter feels that he/she is the only one around. This makes the pathology so intriguing. (David Yeung)
@@paddleed6176 If TB diagnosis has gone up so many times, it is because they have discovered the technique of staining the tubercle bacillus and finding it under the microscopic! (David Yeung)
Have not heard any evidence from this author that Sybil’s illness was fake. Just a bunch of accusations. Clearly she has no clinical credentials.
I suffered physical, sexual, and emotional abuse as a child. So I, like many, have first hand knowledge. I am now 66; I've nearly recovered from it. What I've been noticing for the last four years is that people are projecting or self-referencing every time they speak. Since in this video, Nathan is only giving her opinion, I think she is doing exactly what she accuses the writer Schreiber of: hopefully writing a best seller of the next big thing-except a torn down big thing.
I agree. I also suffered horrific abuse as a child, and I *do* have DID, and this woman is assuming a lot.
Read on Franklin Child ring (many books), you will know Sybil story is true, no need to be "exposed"
CIA was behind MKultra project and that relates to Franklin scandal
MPD is a fiction.
@@faithlessfate How do you know that you have it?
@@redlikewineagain697 if you understood the disorder you wouldnt ask. Its hell. But aside from my symptoms, i have a diagnosis.
I grew up in the 70's, so I remember what it was like. People today need to understand that the media (movies, tv) in those days were full of these "pop-psychology" and "tormented childhood demons-lurking-in-the-closet" sensationalism that made certain folks lots of money. Movies like "The Exorcist", "Carrie", "The Amityville Horror" (not to mention "Sybil").
Mental illness and child abuse are real problems, but too serious to leave to sensationalistic hucksters looking for a meal ticket.
That kind of thinking hasn't disappeared.
You can't leave people in real trouble behind because of some hucksters looking for a meal ticket, or even analyst who expel you because things were difficult for them.
whats funny is she waited until Shirley died and Cornelia wilbur died. Cornelia did extensive research. her mistake was writing a book. it was a exaggerated book but when Shirley died there was alot of evidence in her drawings and diaries. had she or someone did this while Cornelia was alive id listen. but no she couldn't do that. PTSD is a real and it takes on many forms.
Pamela Cook
poor Sybil, I'm glad the movie and book was made to bring light to MPD. I would never wish this on anybody, the abuse she experienced.
It's horrible that this poor woman is being exploited once again. Please leave her alone.
She’s not being exploited again, she’s dead, she can’t be exploited. Besides, the truth is always important.
I'm NOT a psychiatrist... however This woman has not proven a thing to me.
The woman who was Sybil collaborated with an author to tell her own side of the story, which corresponded with Dr. Wilbur's, so why is this woman so sure that it was all made up? She wasn't there during the sessions, so how can she know?
Funny how every time you talk about (Shirley Mason) you add more and more to her story to debunk her
I think all you want 'Debbie Nathan' is people to BUY your book! I won't buy it..You remind Me of a ''Snake Oil Salesman"
They are both dead now..So you can say whatever you want Right?
The author continues this theme throughout the book even into her notes pages. For example, instead of saying “Mason’s diary entry” she uses the terminology “All so-called diary material”. This shows the disbelief and utter disdain the author has for Sybil although she will tell you that she believes that she was misguided and used by Dr. Wilbur and Flora Rheta Shreiber.
she is saying the reason why women "developed" MPD was because they were "weak"? i definitely believe in MPD as i have a form of it myself.. and i believe the ability for anybody to develop this disease is because they are strong, there bodies resourcefuly handled trauma they would not have otherwise been able to survive from. How dare you discount something especially if you've never experienced it yourself!
MPD is not agreed upon by the entire psychiatric community. When Sybil was diagnosed, there still wasn't a lot of scholarship on the subject matter. This book doesn't explain Sybil's blackouts and the fact that so much of her memories (from childhood) were missing from the core personality.
It's amnesia from the alters or other personality manifest that alters hold those memories and Sybil would not do that explain the memory loss or blackouts
The questions and doubts are valid. Too bad that Debbie Nathan's book has too many sensationalist sides to it, that she finds it necessary to ridicule 'Sybil' as well as her psychiatrist on personal levels. I also saw Nathan's lecture. Why diss a person by implecations of their personal life like marriage, family life and intelligence? Why couldn't Nathan just let the facts speak for her?
riccardobruero Because she has her own motives for writing this book.. getting big-paid from the pedophile protection group , the False memory foundation...most likely. Apparently this woman wants the laws regarding child sexual abuse relaxed (even more than now!?).
+riccardobruero some of the 'facts' Nathan referenced turned out not to be facts at all, like the statement on the statement on the dust jacket of the first edition claiming Nathan was the "first person" to examine the public archives with the Sybil records, Dr Patrick Suraci's website has Simon and Schuster's response agreeing to change the wording in later editions, he also found false references references to Flora Schreiber's sex life on page 73, scans are also online
TraumaDissociation
Thank you! ;)
www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-suraci/post_2699_b_1152241.html
and
www.abandonedladder.com/sybilinherownwords/
@@TraumadissociationCom interesting.people have said that Debbie Nathan's book is open for criticism.i read it three times.but I still believe that shirley Mason was disturbed and had a troubled childhood.
Her real name is Shiley Ardell Mason and has been know for years. I completely disagree with Nathan, she's the hoax.
something she also fails to realize is there are a great deal of male survivors but the sad truth is males are thought to be strong and brave and not to cry or show whats inside so a lot of males with DID don't talk about it because in a lot of cases from our own personal experience they are just as scared if not more that the "Bad/icky people " will find out and hurt them again or hurt the people they love again. SO we believe there's almost as many males with DID as females.
Also Too, Since Men Are Made To Hold In Information, About Abuse, I Believe, Some Of Them "Act Out" Their Abuse...This May Be Where A Lot Is " "Serial Criminals", Come From!!!
A lot of males with DiD don’t talk about it because it doesn’t exist, there is no such disorder.
And by the way, if men did have DID, by definition they wouldn’t be able to control whether or not they talk about it, because it would be someone else talking about it.
What about the abuse suffered at the hands of her mother and subsequently covered up by the family physician? True or false? Dr Wilbur supposedly uncovered it during her research into Sybil's past so why wasn't it followed up and the Family GP charged?
Sybil (Shirley Mason), was not abused by her mother. Her mother was very overprotective of her because she was a frail child both physically & emotionally. When she left home for college she had great difficulty taking care of herself. When Dr. Wilbur found her she lead Shirley down the path of MPD. However, she didn't have it. Shirley responded to the doctor's suggestions out of her desperate need for approval & need to be taken care of.
Thank you. That clears that up. Wilbur should not have been allowed to get away with this nonsense and use Sybil as means to forward her career.
Indeed Tinkerbell6393 where is the proof she had multiple personalities? It seems Dr Edgar fabricated them so as to build a a career of this patient.
stephen connell The proof as I understand it was her session notes with Sybil and clearly they were misleading. Because Sybil was so easily manipulated and easily suggestible under hypnosis, Sybil played out the personalities. Look up the life of Shirley Mason.
You are spot on Tinkerbell6393 Dr Edgar concocted the whole story to benefit herself and her career. She manipulated everything and should have been thrown out of the profession..
Were there official gynecological records for Sybil? If there was scarring on her uterus, then maybe the "psychotic mother's" abuse was in fact real.
Or it was a fabrication in this particular case.
Multiple Personality Disorder is a real condition, however.
It is not a mental illness. It is a trauma response/coping mechanism, in response to severe childhood abuse before the age of 8, whilst the brain is still plastic enough to create "alters".
It's now referred to as "Dissociative Identity Disorder." The old name, MPD, had too many people believing (or claiming) that they were possessed by demons, aliens, or whatnot other outside entities. (－‸ლ)
I also know a Dr that knew Dr. Wilbur, Sybil's psychiatrist. I'm sure that some of it may have not been true, but is that even important? What should be important is the pain that a child went through, and how hard it was for Shirley (not Sybil) to put her life together. Let's remember her strength and will power to survive, & not downplay what happened to her. And yes, just in case someone wants to know - I am in the field of mental health & I have credentials.
Very resounding point! I'm seeing a mental health professional to heal from my childhood abuse and trauma! The first time I sat with her and minimized my own trauma by saying it wasn't as bad as others she stopped me and said trauma is trauma! It doesn't matter if you nearly drowned in a bathtub or the Pacific Ocean the fact of the matter is you almost drowned!
Private message? Incorrect, look below. I refuse to continue talking with someone who has no clue what-so-ever of what it is like to be a survivor of severe child abuse. Additionally I don't like to continue carrying on a conversation with someone who is obviously lacking in a well rounded education
So how many of YOUR books are you hoping to sell? Perhaps you are the one with an agenda and are jealous of millions of money they had made on the book Sybil, and so now she hopes to do the same with her book.
Faces hidden in the shadows hide the most abusive horrendous things that happened to the original main person DID’s is true no matter what anyone says!!
It’s REAL & living it is total 💯 HELL!! This woman is a non believer but never walked in someone’s shoes that have always lived in that HELL!!
Her words really anger me!!
Nathan rummaged through reams of therapist's notes - which were sealed - she has them unsealed - digs out the most titillating stories - to retell for the entire world to read - a retelling of each - in a tone where her voice sounds almost 'excited'. creepy, intrusive, sick. Her point - that every survivor with DID goes to t, recounts similar sexually charged stories - encouraged by the t - who helps them 'make personalities'. Mason? OMG - how very sad.
If u know about this movie..forget the rest SALLY FIELD nailed it!!!
Exactly, which disproves the claim that it can't be acted/malingered.
Sally Field is an asshole
@@nasrinv she's strange I use to go to school with her
@@antonyterranova1789 how old were you when you went to school with her?
Just finished watching it again... Sally Field was amazing!
I believe that you created Personalities not only as a child but as you grow, to escape the reality of being hurt and judged. I was sexually abused, physically abused, mentally abuses, and emotionally abused. I don't know if I have DID, I am bipolar that's all I know.
So you, therefore, are providing a belief rather than utilizing statistical data or scientific research on the subject.
I can tell you without hesitation that you do not have DID, because it’s not an actual thing. It’s a fantasy fiction.
How can you fake DID? Its hard to keep up different personalities, let alone have fake personalities that are completely different from the main personality. Just to blow this disorder away is ignorant as the mind is capable of so much. I do believe there is such a disorder as DID. Also, having imaginary friends is not normal.
It's a shame someone comes along to say a severely traumatized individual is faking it for attention. Sounds like a strictly behaviorists individual making these claims and we know the trauma some of them doled out in the name of science. Try studying the disorder and having a client with this before making such claims.
It's unfortunate to argue that DID/MPD doesn't exist, rather than being open minded about the human mind - and its possibilities to cope with traumas an distress. This video doesn't contribute to the discussion of DID in a constructive way, given what the field of modern science do know about coping mechanisms and traumatic experiences.
It is not unfortunate. From a scientific perspective we MUST question it. Mental health treatment is based on science, not philosophy. If you want an open mind to accept anything study philosophy. If you want mental health research - SCIENCE - be a skeptic.
ruclips.net/video/6OpG3jUADw4/видео.html
So does that mean anything with a brain can get this disorder?? So when a lion attacks a herd of zebra's in the wild the only way to deal with their "trauma", is to inherently develop coping mechanisms like DID because they just can't handle the pressure of being hunted by lions? Many people in the world suffer horrific abuse and trauma in all parts of the world but not all of these people Develop "ALTS".Trauma is a natural part of life. And like Jeff Bryson said in science you DO have to be sceptical about everything especially when funding is involved.
Multiple personality disorder was and is so rare, that it doesn’t even exist.
interesting book but just what was the purpose of it? Why drag up Shirley, Wilbur and Schreiber after all this time? What is Nathan's agenda? I found it more tabloid than a true fact book. Her hate of Wilbur and her contempt for Shirley and Flora RS just leap off the pages.
How can a woman herself say this!? I wonder how much money she is being paid for this?! How can she discredit such a serious disease?! I
The 'Too good to be true" syndrome. Whenever something suddenly appears to be very simple it's always a good idea to take a closer look.
Exactly.
I've just finished reading this book.
Ms. Nathan does not hide her dislike of Dr. Wilbur, and she fails to draw a distinction between Wilbur and the crude treatment methods of psychiatry between the 30's to 60's.
That being said, today Dr. Wilbur's conduct would have cost her licence and probably landed her in jail.
Ms. Nathan appears dead on in disproving Shirley Mason's abuse history and correctly reflects that Ms. Mason recanted her MDP to Dr. Wilbur, who chose to ignore her.
Additional: Debbie Nathan's study has also been questioned for its methodology.
Ok DID defender.
Anxiety, depression, and imaginary playmates are some of the most common symptoms of D.I.D. What compels certain individuals to so vehemently attempt to discount the myriad affects of trauma? I wish that I could consider it unfathomable to imagine that any 'professional' could be so profoundly obtuse or morally bankrupt and yet how common it is. It seems that a prerequisite for being in the 'mental health' field is profound dysfunctionality.
There is a heinous agenda. I can't think of any other word than that apart from evil. - - - Dissociative disorders didn't suddenly spring up as a result of this movie - it simply became safer to speak about the atrocities that many parents inflict on their children and the understandable consequences of those acts - - - These abominable people are apologists for abusers. That parents commit grievous injuries to their offspring is not controversial. It is denied by those who hadn't the strength to recognize, let alone deal with, their own trauma.
i think this lady wants a big break for her book..
+Ronna liana Ortega shame on her to try and reduce this woman's horrible experiences to a hoax. Shame on her.
AGREE!!!!
All in all, if you read the book critically and don’t buy into the author’s manipulation of facts and remember that none of the three woman she tries to condemn are here to dispute any of her claims, I think the book actually can be taken one of two ways… either as a really good book of fiction itself OR as proof that Sybil was true and that her primary guide through this thing we now know as D.I.D. did they very best she could knowing the time in which she experienced the things she did.
I have DID and this sucks for ppl who are really sick and living it day after day....
Lol sure
💕
Interesting, but too many generalisations.. How does she know that there weren't multiple personality cases "throughout the history of mankind"? Child abuse wasn't recognised as abuse for centuries (for example) so we could say that child abuse never existed until the 19th century, which would be an erroneous statement. I think that this woman is wrapping the whole case up far too easily & neatly, but who knows the truth really? I don't. Who can say that this woman doesn't want a bestseller too?
This is a load of bunk! Growing up in a time when people would go into 'denial' about child abuse and there was no authority to turn to, does not mean it didn't happen. I HAD (witnessed) friends that were abused to the point where they showed signs of multiple personalities. Why weren't sex offenders recognized up until the 60's?
Unless you've been through it, don't talk like the expert you AREN'T!!
How is it "bunk"? Sybil *admitted* she faked her MP.
She's a feminist journalist and writer. No psych.
i dont think she actually argued her point very well imo.
This is a disturbing movie.I'm not saying that it's a bad movie,just very sad and such a shame that Sybil had to go thru all of these personalities.Shame on her mother!
futhermore, at the time of nathan's exposure, neither wilbur nor mason were available to dispute or concede. it's my understanding that all of dr wilbur's files were destroyed which also means that the information she received was afforded to her by psychiatrists who did not spend a significant amount of time w/ mason, thereby making their acquisitions merely hearsay. we may never know the truth, but 1 thing's certain, mason definitely had some issues & dr. wilbur helped her function w/in them.
I remember another case that was touted on tv quite heavilyin the 80’s.
The woman was on Oprah & was portrayed by Shelly Long in a movie.
Truddi Chase was the lady.
“When Rabbit Howls” is the movie and the book title.
why don't people let the poor woman alone. she's been dead for 26 years. 😢
I believe Sybil had IDD and the Dr encouraged it. But she definitely had something or a split. I think the Dr wanted more from her and put more ideas on what was already there.
I have a Masters in Experimental Psychology and a PhD in Clinical/Developmental Psychology. I did my Post-Doc working with Axis II populations.
I currently work for my state's Department of Mental Health in policy and quality management and teach. I have 9 publications, 2 of which are on the clinical implications of modern neuroscience.
And, it would be cruel and inhumane to make me sit through three more postings of 1980's psycho-babble.
I would like to know the motive for Ms. Nathan's book is? What are her credentials in the mental health field?
credentials? radical feminist....so none
I'm not a phys major (in fact I'm a bio Major) and I watched two particular law and order series dealing with this. One had a woman with severe MPD but they found out she was acting all along to get what she wanted and another in which a psychiatrist induced a young girl with drugs, to feel like she was sexually abused by her father. Keeping in mind that law and order is fiction (mostly), I feel like you're right in that 1. psychiatrists can induce these kinds of thoughts
What was the psychiatrist gain in making the patient believe that ?
Bye the way, I love that program.
@@MikeWildfrog so that they keep going. It’s business, the customer aka patient has a demand. The doctor supplies with his suggestive thoughts no matter how questionable or offer prescribed drugs. If one approach doesn’t work he’ll treat you with another
This woman is WRONG! Period!
i dont believe it was fraud at all
Hung up on a word are you? Seems this is what the entire book is about, Sybil Exposed is a writer who is hung up on a notion which is her own failings to understand the context or presentation of a story.
This would be so much more believable if two things hadn't occurred. #1, there were no attempts to "expose" Sybil until after the three main participants in the story had died and couldn't defend themselves. #2, the main antagonist (I can't remember his name) was involved in the defense of 3 men who had been accused of child molesting by their older victims, 2 of whom were claiming DID and the 3rd using recovery of suppressed memories. The doctor had to disprove DID to have any chance to help the men and lawyers who hired him in order to win their cases.
I agree with #1 and I didn't know about #2. To me, that makes it even more believable. Why try to disprove it anyways?
Additionally, people who have been abused and don't get help have been known to be hushed about it. However, people who have received much counseling and psychiatric help from well educated psychologists and psychiatrists are willing to share their experience because they know it will help people who are willing to learn and grow.
This woman is a journalist not a doctor. That`s all.
This is a horrible misrepresentation of a very serious and real disorder. I take a real offense to someone coming along and trying to say that this is all false. I have studied this for years, and I personally know one of the doctors that knew Dr. Wilbur, Sybil's doctor. Yes, there was some hype, after all, it was made into a movie. However, there is documented evidence that shows the traumatic lasting effects of severe, persistent child abuse, as well as how the mind processes trauma.
My first and continuing thought in all of this is “Why does this author want to write a book that could hurt so many people?” I have my thoughts on this but never find the answer in the book. It begins in the introduction that “Debbie Nathan gives proof that the allegedly true story was largely fabricated.” and goes onto build what looks like a horror story of ghoulish proportions.
I don’t believe this woman should be ostracized for delving into the situation and exposing how Shirley was used. I of course read the book back then. It was a fascinating read, but a lot because of the horrible abuse it was said she suffered. It was so awful and unbelievable. And since I suffered from some mental problems and abuse myself I could relate to the story. But I was really horrified by the abuse and it was hard to take. It was haunting. I have not heard if this abuse actually took place or not. I actually hope not. The book was very well written by someone with an amazing hairdo! You can never tell a book by its cover. When I first heard that this book was somewhat of a fake, I was disappointed because I had been fooled and I had been so emotionally affected by it. But I cannot blame others for bringing reality to light. The sad thing is that Shirley, who actually had problems and needed help, was used and abused by her psychiatrist.
She says Dr. Wilbur wanted sell books. Who says this woman isn't trying to do the same?
Why do people have to make fun of things they don't understand. Mabbee if they were locked in a closet in the dark they wouldn't.
@MrMap4921 The fact that Nathan added "sexy" in this context is to me a red flag of her own denial. An example of projection I mentioned above. Children that are sexually abused often have mixed feelings. "It felt good and I didn't want it" If the abuse happened near puberty, it might be remembered as "sexy".
Science should be taken with a grain of salt? What kind of a statement is that? This womans' credibility is lost with that statement.
Science should be taken with a grain of salt as far as women are concerned? Over simplified and miraculous? There is nothing simple about DID/MPD. It is not a miraculous answer to the question of woman's changing role in society. How dare she speak of "sexy" when she is wholly embracing the sensationalism of promoting her own "Hail to my V, Hey look at Me!" exposé? Usually profound ignorance of this sort inspires pity in me, but this kind of irresponsible, careless BS can do serious damage. It is still very difficult, even in the 21st century, for people with any kind of mental health issue to seek help or tell loved ones what they are going through. There is still a lot of shame and fear. Many people are isolated and alone; then they read books like Sybil and they don't feel so singular for a moment. Maybe long enough to contact a professional or just someone, anyone, that might help them. No one has the right, especially this despicable scandalmonger, to come along and naysay science and try to discredit people who aren't here to defend themselves.
Debbie Nathan, before you consider writing another book, please consider the following first: I Never Promised You a Rose Garden is only semi-autobiographical and it isn't spooky old Mr. Science using arguments over contracted cultivation to say that P.M.S. causes schizophrenia or some crazy thing like that.
The author had been accused of portraying things improperly in the book and was not taking criticism well. This includes the fact that since the book has been out people are fact-checking the book and finding major errors in her work. A specific reference I can quote is one where she misquotes someone from the ISSTD. This person has written a letter advising what she actually stated to the author.
I read Debbie Nathan's book three times.i heard that she misused and abused the information.
I agree that it is interesting that this book appears after the principles have died. Dr. Wilbur, Sybil and the writer that co wrote the book with Dr. Wilbur. I believe that its some sort of effort to discredit the reality of both the severity of child abuse and its horrendous and devastating aftermath.
Kimberly M agree!!!
No one is saying she wasn't abused.
in my opinion, there's little fallacy in that book "Sybil." the fraud was committed by the psychiatric industry, itself, when every psychiatrist and their brother was looking to cash in on the new craze created by the book. thanks for the video.
I don't think that anyone should be making assumptions about this unless they are an expert, either these commenters or this woman if she doesn't have a degree. I'm almost positive MPD exists, and so Sybil's case was either real or exaggerated. I think this lady, however, is just contradicting to contradict and so I cannot believe her. It seems as though she thinks that anything that dramatic has to be a scandal, but that's not always the case.
All the experts agree that severely abused children often dissociate from that abuse, especially sexual abuse, They go somewhere in their mind or "blank out" as they call and many do not remember the abuse, they get up and go to school in the morning as if nothing happened. Maybe Shirley created imaginary people to cope with the terrible terrible childhood she had.
I'm incredibly lucky that I only have severe ptsd from it cause I could have ended up like sybil! My mom never got me therapy of any kind in my teen years people had told her I had severe issues that I needed help with! I didn't even get to start healing till my 30s I'm 38 now! My mom knew if I got therapy I'd " tattle tale" on her I'd be removed from her and she would no longer be able to get welfare when I was younger ! even when I aged out of being able to draw benefits from me ! She still denied me help because she knew people would tell her she was the cause of my trauma and she couldn't and wouldn't stand for anyone telling her what she put me through was wrong she. If they found out about her abusing me shed be held accountable she was a textbook narcissist and abuser ! Luckily she died when I was 7 months pregnant!
Dissociating from a stressful event at the moment is not even close to multiple personality disorder.
As I asked and you ignored: WHY didn't Dr. Wilbur present her evidence of Sybil's supposed MPD in a Peer Reviewed Psychiatric Journal? That's basic science. That's my point: the Dr. DID NOT have Sybil's case reviewed. Now it is obvious why: because it would not have stood up to peer review.
One doesn't have to be "a trained scientist" to parse bad research. If you actually are a scientist, you sound like a poor one, much like Dr. Wilbur, apparently.
This lady is wrong. There have always been abused and dissociated people....for once they could reveal themselves and to people who might understand....What's wrong with cravings of love and care. And the doc didn't invent the personalities....they came out as Sybil remembered.
Amazing. Every word you said was wrong.
MPD was only described as a disorder once, about 75 years prior to Sybil. This was during a time when the functioning of the human mind was not well understood and the human brain was a flat out mystery.
As for craving attention and love, nothing wrong with that, except when it leads to the simulation of symptoms which makes the client worse.
And, roll playing to get your doctor's attention doesn't make the rolls you are playing real people.
It does mean you are not a real patient and your doctor isn't a real doctor.
Abuser Debbie Nathan , I believe Sybil had MPD/DID. As many children that are abused on a regular basis, they can develop MPD that have the will to survive.
That doesn't mean that Sybil had MPD. She admitted she made it all up.
@@louwinters508 well in a way she did make it up because it was her brain that split into these personalities due to trauma. Those personalities were all her.
@@oe4927 everyone wants to be compassionate, but you cannot begin to comprehend the destructive potential of a misdiagnosis.
@@oe4927 what I meant was she admitted to knowingly making it up to please her therapist.
Learning about how they grew up and what challenges they faced actually made the book Sybil more believable to me.
It's truly tragic when one who gets a little bit of education thinks they know all about another and another's said diagnosis. Perhaps you should look into the aspect that Shirley Ardell Mason, a.k.a. Sybil was validated through her many styles of paintint/drawing. It's been proven that one personality could not have painted the various styles and yet they were painted by the same hand. Perhaps you should do YOUR research.
nothing this woman said proved that the case of sybil was fraud!
I think Dr. Wilbur's conduct in the case of Ms. Mason is a line by line "how not to" of how to treat a client. In fact, its amazing Dr. Wilbur didn't manage to kill Ms. Mason.
Dr. Wilbur had no boundaries with the client, either physical, emotional, or financial. She addicted her to massive doses of drugs and treated her without consulting others.
Dr. Wilbur was uncritical of what she was told under the most questionable of circumstances.
i'm sure men/boys have it too
Yes they do
when did she confess? yes this disorder does exist. this video makes it look and sound like it doesn't and anyone who claims to have is lying.
I have seen many men with it. All were sexually abused
Everyone has many personalities. Every situation requires you to fit into character and play a roll. If you associate strongly with a group you can easily be manipulated into doing things you wouldn't normally do.
It's quite common for a human to adapt logic and emotions once they on a "side". The human mind isn't something that understands truth or is aware of situations that undermine its integrity.
Debbie Nathan is a known liar. Read Ross Cheit's Witchhunt Narratives
Everyone's looking for something except the poor patient whom just searched for relief. Mental illness and social disorders are not something to mock for in the end, we all lose.
It is my belief that D.I.D is a very real experience a person may be having with a very real but ethereal world. Imagination and suggestibility paired with a strong desire to escape a fearful and abusive environment, creates a codependency between the living and those who have passed, but remain earth bound. Spirits are quite willing to take the wheel by taking over the body for brief periods when the person they are possessing wants to escape the discomfort. And of course they often make a wreck of things when they do ... seeking things they don't have the option to have over there.
I'm still on the fence about whether or not DID is even real. From my experience of reading, viewing and talking to people with DID, many people with "DID" exhibit (among other personality disorders) histrionic personality disorder, in that they often display attention seeking behavior and will go to great lengths to sustain or reach the DID diagnosis. The cornerstone case that caused an explosion of DID, MPD diagnoses was proven to be a fraud, not that it automatically means that all cases are fraudulent, but it definitely throws a wrench in the works. Iatrogenesis has also been noted to play a large role in a person's DID diagnosis. One thing I find odd about many with DID is how forward they are with discussing their diagnosis and childhood traumas. The majority of people with childhood trauma generally are hesitant or even completely refrain from talking about past abuse, whereas many with DID will bring it up and go into great detail without any kind of provocation. This raises a red flag in my opinion. They have also failed to properly correlate childhood trauma to DID and yet that has become the go-to cause in many eyes.
Sure, more recent psychology majors/graduates do accept DID as a proper diagnosis but I think there are many reasons for this. I don't think new and recurring students are being skeptical enough. There is no reason not to be skeptical in psychology, because attempting to falsify your own views or even DSM-V established views will only lead to a more honest and credible position. The educational setting is another reason that I think many psychology majors are just accepting this as a legit diagnosis. We see this indoctrination type behavior in all aspects of our lives just due to the authoritative nature of how we are taught. Just look at how many people believe in the supernatural powers of religious figures and iconography, even though there is very little positive evidence (even when most is to the contrary) to suggest it being the case. If your peers believe X to be true, then you are far more likely to believe X to be true as well. Very rarely is the student ever critical of the teacher or the material being taught, when they absolutely should be. In a way, it is very indicative to the findings of the Asch Conformity experiment, in which people surrounded by their peers started to perceive blatantly wrong answers to be correct in the face of peer pressure/fear of being on the outside. I'm not saying that I am 100% certain that DID does not exist and is not a legit diagnosis, but I just don't see the evidence to properly conclude that it is. I actually see the evidence pointing towards other personality disorders rather than DID. If DID is some kind of delusion or underlying symptom of some other psychological condition, then how psychologists are currently treating patients under the DID diagnoses could be potentially more harmful than helpful.
Hmm. Let's see.... who wanted to write a best seller and was trading on sensationalism?
She's wrong.
This woman is trying to make a buck! Making money off of someone who can't defend herself.
@independentMomma1 - correction: I had friends that were beaten and sexually abused, ONE that demonstrated multiple personalities and yes.. she was TERRIBLY abused!
Don't get caught up in all of the out of context "facts" in the book, the glaring agendas and the inflammatory language. I first learned about MPD by watching and reading the book The Three Faces of Eve. Eve, Chris Sizemore, actually did not integrate and had several more personalities than just Eve White, Eve Black and Jane. I believe the book Sybil, I don't care what this Nathan person has to say. I've read where two of Shirley's childhood friends confirmed Mrs Mason's cruelty.
HOW does this woman know these things she's saying are true? She couldn't possibly know.
this author seems like the fake - just an intuitive hunch based upon this 4 minute post
One another one of her pages a poster asked her so the part in the book where Dr. Wilbur visited Shirley's childhood doctor wasn't true? And Nathan answered yes that was completely made up as the doctor was dead. Well no where in the book does it state that Wilbur met with S's childhood doctor, that was creative license by the producer of the mini series Sybil.
These films are not based on facts . Mpd is sensational in films .
It's about how each of us has had the experience of dissociating to some degree, and dissociation happens in various degrees - from sitting and watching a movie or reading a book and losing track of time, which we all do, and actually losing time for hours or even days.