If you're a heavyset rider with that BMC bike, please buy some Sidi shoes and the 3T seat post and go to Neil for a bike fit. As a bonus, when fit complete, tell him the bikes for your (insert family member/friend) but they couldn't make it so you stood in, but they have the same shoe size and around the same height, so it should be good!
It's crazy to think we can customise and refine every contact point, crank length, cleat position, bars, stem, saddle tilt etc, yet everyone on the planet has the same Q factor measurement.
OK Neil, what are your FAVORITE products? One of my favorites is the Thomson seat post family, angle adjustment via a fore and an aft bolt that come up from underneath. Easy-peasy. P.S. I nominate the Enve carbon seat posts to be included in nightmare seat posts: clamping via two blobby things that jam into a weird hole laterally.
Oh yes. I had a beautiful fluted Campagnolo seatpost on my retro bike. Not mentioning the insane saddle setback, the single bolt clamp was horrible to set up without the thing moving. Saddle rails were slipping no matter how hard it was tightened.
haha, me too, first time I had one in i nearly had a meltdown - "it's me, it's me, I don't know what i'm doing" - no, just a bit of over-engineering and consumer / user inconsiderate product design - in the bike industry of all places!! hope you're well Ben ;)
I'm amazed at how many times I wonder about the disconnect between the folks who design this stuff and those who use it. Do the customers do all the post manufacturing/sales R & D for these brands? And even when/if they get negative feedback they seem to ignore it and go right on making stupid stuff like this. Sometimes I wonder if it's all a game to impress their fellow designers/engineers (or to get around patents?) without any thought about the end-user?
Hello Neill/RCA Good day, I was hoping for a topic in the future about Pelvic Tilt, comparison of Posterior and Anterior Tilt, and how does it affect the interaction with the saddle, primarily saddle tilt when riding, and how it corelates to overall position. Thank you!
this! i've been wondering about it for a while. Almost all pro riders seem to be normal/posteriorly rotated and as an anteriorly rotated representative i would like to know if it's an advantage or a disadvantage.
Totally agree on the shoe cleat position. I run it as far back as they go which seems ok but it would be good to have a bit more adjustment available. Iy would be like tiptoeing on the pedals if they were right at the front!
When a bike has a single bolt seat bolt clamp AND proprietary seat post shape, this is simply a disqualifier for buying the bike. All of them slip if you hit a bad bump with bigger rider as Neil explains. Have seen it in the pro ranks as well. Since 2 bolt seat clamps exist which are easy to microadjust and operate with much lower torque and only what I own, unconscionable that one bolt seat clamps exist as it ruins the cycling experience for many. Been there, done that. Astounding the crap that bike companies put out. PS. I use pedal axle spacers on Speedplays for wider Q-factor as well. I also use Speedplay extension plates to move my pedals cleats more rearward on Specialized shoes for behind the first metatarsal pedaling. I am basically a who's who of Neil's checklist except last item because I don't ride indoors and live in a tropical climate to ride year around. Neil is the best bike fitter on the web.
I think spindle length options might be limited crank arm compatibility/liability issues. Shimano as a crank and pedal manufacturer could do this easier than anyone else.
which trek bikes are u talking about on the saddle clamp? i found madone 6th and 7th gen are quite easy to adjust those thing. i actually love they separate seat angle bolt and saddle rail clamp bolt. so you dont mess with saddle angle when moving your saddle forward / backward.
The 2021+ Émonda's (carbon) is one such example. This one is so bad I had to remove all saddle clamp hardware just to change the saddle's angle. With just the slightest amount of compression for the saddle clamp ears into the seat mast cap, the bite is way too strong for them to rotate.
I have one of those nightmare seat posts. Emonda SLR 2015. Trek shop mechanic can’t level it perpendicular to frame. Bought two brand new seats and same issue.
All saddle clamp hardware needs to be removed to change the saddle's angle, I've worked with a handful before. I think this is the only saddle clamp I had to do this to.
a product annoyance i’ve come across recently is on the Wahoo Kickr v5 - the “700c” wheel setting places the rear axle a good 15-20mm or so higher than the front when it’s mounted with a 700c wheel. So, you have to figure out the front wheel height via other means, relative to the rear, or putting the trainer to the “650c” setting. For me, i couldn’t figure out why my fit felt great on the road, and trainer sessions i was “riding down hill”, or the saddle angle was off, or some other crap. There’s a whole reddit thread out there on it 🤦🏻♂️ …c’mon wahoo!
I just binned my seatpost and got a proper adjustable one from Decathlon One bolt in front, one in the back.. easily adjustable and stable as a rock.. for a mere 30,- or so. Luckily I don't need an expensive super lightweight aero carbon proprietary seatpost or clamp...
The felt ia has those saddle clamps, I actually like that you can easily swap a saddle without having to re-set your angle. The main gripe I have is that they wear and slightly wobble.
Cannot agree more with the q-factor on pedal system. If i want more q-factor, the only option is to buy the pedal extender which is minimum 16mm or 20mm on one side. So it is like 40mm adjustment or nothing. My question is based on Neil's fitting, what is the most popular increased in q-factor? 8mm?
Good question - I use a LOT of the +8mm pedals from SQ labs. It's rare that a rider needs the +15mm versions but they do happen. Very occasionally around once a quarter I have to resort to 20mm pedal extenders! - Neill
@@danielakerman8241Based on my experience (I can only do the very basics: Saddle height + fore & aft + angle and cockpit adjustments), I think it wouldn't pose a problem for me.
Oh boy, I hate that one. I've worked with a handful and I have to remove ALL saddle clamp hardware just to change the saddle's angle as the bite is way too strong when the saddle clamp ears are subjected to even the lightest compression force, so I have to anticipate the saddle's angle when I put everything back together, no midway adjustment.
Haha I had a 3T Difflock seatpost. I thought the post itself was pretty good, but the tilt adjustment was confusing. I reckon if I had to deal with them very often I’d hate them too 😂
My Tailfin carbon panier system works with a custom through axle so no BMC for me....(also recall that my old BMC had a very odd seat post clamp with internal wedge and side bolt on post)
Look used to do a pedal with the ability to change the Q factor, the CX7. I have a set. They also had a shim system. They were very expensive though. And you never used the bits.
Fiz'ik in the x3 overcurve and r4 tempo have a really nice rearward cleat position. Admittedly without the bolt movement like in Lake or Shimano, but they fit my foot like no other shoe I have tried.
AHhh! You were stringing me along! I thought you were going to call out the BMC ICS Carbon Cockpit. Not the new Aero one but the existing one that's been on the SLR01 for some years now. I'm a fitter with 2+ years experience and i HATE the BMC Carbon cockpit. The new one seems to solve all of the problems with the current one but introduces a new issue because it's only available with 12.5° of flare and comes in at 36cm at the tops....
I am looking into buying the BMC Teammachine with the current BMC carbon cockpit; what are the problems you have encountered with it? And what has been solved with the new flared cockpits?
One of the best “features” of my Favero Duo-Shi power meters is the added Q-factor. For the first time in well over 20 years I don’t have sore feet anymore… Don’t know why it took me so long to figure this out, but always took it for granted.
Even just trying to get my cleat under the ball of my foot my road Sidis don’t have enough slot and it’s super frustrating. My 15 year old Sidi mountain shoes definitely allow me to put the cleat in the right position, but the cleat is much smaller. Go figure
Your talk of Q factor sparked a thought in me. Shimano has a rather public problem with "Hollow tech" cranks. It seems obvious that heavy powerful riders put more bending load on the crank, but perhaps less obvious is the torque from the pedal offset. You say bigger more powerful riders need more Q factor, or pedal offset. That increases torsion stresses significantly so the combination.... Perhaps bike fitters are to blame for Shimano's woes, or more properly Shimamo should have allowed for longer pedal spindles.
Debatable that pedals offset aka Q-factor is responsible for Shimano's crank woes which is largely a design and/or manufacturing issue. I ride only Shimano cranks btw.
@@lukewalker1051 Shimano need to find the cause. That needs a lot of research (for them to do). I've been an engineer for a lot of years and seen how things are designed and how the corners of the load envelope can be missed or even glossed over. This is just another possibility.
If Golfers can get fitter-only equipment, it's ridiculous that Shimano, Look, Time, and Speedplay can't offer spindles for bike fitting studios. I mean, seriously, just fire up the CNC lathe and run it overnight for a bin of parts in the morning that would last most fitting studios 10 years.
Before the video starts, I just bought a new pair of Sidi shoes and the thumbnail has me a little weak in the knees and its not because of poor fit or no arch support.
A longitudinal two-bolt saddle clamp? Usually the front bolt is responsible for setting the angle (this is why you may see a wheel instead of a bolt head here for some seatposts) and the rear bolt is to clamp the saddle rail down. However, as the saddle will tilt towards the back as you tighten the rear bolt until you've torqued it down, it can take a few tries as you'll need to anticipate how much more it'll tilt before the rear bolt reaches torque spec.
You can buy extenders that go in between the pedal and the crank. I use ergotec 35mm and Crankbrothers Stamp Large which was and I think still is the largest pedal available. But the problem with them is that usually pedals are 8mm hex but that doesn't fit through the ergotec extenders. So you have saw a Topeak 5 to 8mm hex spacer in half to attach them. Some pedals have the 15mm 2 sided hex for a wrench on the spindle but if you don't have that then the only option is that. A common problem is just outwards splayed feet even if you are regular size or even a smaller person. So if you have normal pedals it forces your knees into the frame. Usually it's not a problem for casual biking but for technical riding it limits your force through your feet to handle the bike. And for serious road biking it's going to cause issues in the knees or in the hip flexors, or whatever muscle, when you have to use force to keep your knees outward from the frame.
Want more q-factor options? Well it's going to raise the prices that everyone already ignorantly complains about being "to high"(generally out of touch people who are disconnected from making the things they use, people who don't get context, and are ignorant to the realities of manufacturing, and business). This is the fact of the matter; if you think it's not, why don't you start making spindles or pedals and start selling them yourselves? Show the world how it's done, lol!
Its still hilarious to me that $1x,xxx flagship bikes don't come with custom fit components. For that kind of money... hell, for a $3K 105 carbon bike.... you should be getting a fit and full concierge build service. Road bike brands invest millions into marketable nonsense but don't address actual customer problems lmao.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
Inspired by Cade Media, Neill's version...
I was about to say 😂
Much less 'shouty', which is nice!
And a lot more rationale/logic backed up by facts, which is nice!
But Bike Fit James is like a pull toy with recorded phrases. You can watch 10 different videos and hear the same line 😜
@@mat_from_ballarat Hi Dad!
If you're a heavyset rider with that BMC bike, please buy some Sidi shoes and the 3T seat post and go to Neil for a bike fit.
As a bonus, when fit complete, tell him the bikes for your (insert family member/friend) but they couldn't make it so you stood in, but they have the same shoe size and around the same height, so it should be good!
😂
It's crazy to think we can customise and refine every contact point, crank length, cleat position, bars, stem, saddle tilt etc, yet everyone on the planet has the same Q factor measurement.
You missed fully integrated cable routing through the bars, stem, and headset, or any combination of those.
I use the wahoo rollers. Problem solved. Almost every bike fits in it and I can see how their stoke can affect their balance too.
Steve Hogg put me in a thomson back in 2004 and I never looked back. Still got it!
OK Neil, what are your FAVORITE products? One of my favorites is the Thomson seat post family, angle adjustment via a fore and an aft bolt that come up from underneath. Easy-peasy.
P.S. I nominate the Enve carbon seat posts to be included in nightmare seat posts: clamping via two blobby things that jam into a weird hole laterally.
Good shout
The single bolt system has its origins in the 1970s. It was a pain to work on then.
Oh yes. I had a beautiful fluted Campagnolo seatpost on my retro bike. Not mentioning the insane saddle setback, the single bolt clamp was horrible to set up without the thing moving. Saddle rails were slipping no matter how hard it was tightened.
You've made me come out in a cold sweat thinking about the 3T seat posts. Spent ages adjusting them in my studio.
haha, me too, first time I had one in i nearly had a meltdown - "it's me, it's me, I don't know what i'm doing" - no, just a bit of over-engineering and consumer / user inconsiderate product design - in the bike industry of all places!! hope you're well Ben ;)
I'm amazed at how many times I wonder about the disconnect between the folks who design this stuff and those who use it. Do the customers do all the post manufacturing/sales R & D for these brands? And even when/if they get negative feedback they seem to ignore it and go right on making stupid stuff like this. Sometimes I wonder if it's all a game to impress their fellow designers/engineers (or to get around patents?) without any thought about the end-user?
Hello Neill/RCA
Good day,
I was hoping for a topic in the future about Pelvic Tilt, comparison of Posterior and Anterior Tilt, and how does it affect the interaction with the saddle, primarily saddle tilt when riding, and how it corelates to overall position. Thank you!
I'll put on the list! Thanks for the suggestion. Cam
Thank you, Cam!!@@roadcyclingacademy
I’d love lot see that one as well!
this! i've been wondering about it for a while. Almost all pro riders seem to be normal/posteriorly rotated and as an anteriorly rotated representative i would like to know if it's an advantage or a disadvantage.
2:09 The new Scott Foil RC now has this clamp, the previous version had the Ritchey WCS 1-Bolt which I personally love.
Totally agree on the shoe cleat position. I run it as far back as they go which seems ok but it would be good to have a bit more adjustment available. Iy would be like tiptoeing on the pedals if they were right at the front!
When a bike has a single bolt seat bolt clamp AND proprietary seat post shape, this is simply a disqualifier for buying the bike. All of them slip if you hit a bad bump with bigger rider as Neil explains. Have seen it in the pro ranks as well.
Since 2 bolt seat clamps exist which are easy to microadjust and operate with much lower torque and only what I own, unconscionable that one bolt seat clamps exist as it ruins the cycling experience for many. Been there, done that. Astounding the crap that bike companies put out.
PS. I use pedal axle spacers on Speedplays for wider Q-factor as well. I also use Speedplay extension plates to move my pedals cleats more rearward on Specialized shoes for behind the first metatarsal pedaling. I am basically a who's who of Neil's checklist except last item because I don't ride indoors and live in a tropical climate to ride year around.
Neil is the best bike fitter on the web.
Best trainer for bike fitters is the KICKR ROLLR SMART BIKE ROLLER TRAINER! No compatibility issues and no faff with adapters.
ANYTHING proprietary in the bike industry is fkin evil!
I love that seatpost! 😂 Tricky to figure out but once it’s set you’re never going to slip.
They are needless is the point. 2 bolt systems can be adjusted to a fraction of a degree and are far less fiddly.
I think spindle length options might be limited crank arm compatibility/liability issues. Shimano as a crank and pedal manufacturer could do this easier than anyone else.
which trek bikes are u talking about on the saddle clamp? i found madone 6th and 7th gen are quite easy to adjust those thing. i actually love they separate seat angle bolt and saddle rail clamp bolt. so you dont mess with saddle angle when moving your saddle forward / backward.
The 2021+ Émonda's (carbon) is one such example. This one is so bad I had to remove all saddle clamp hardware just to change the saddle's angle. With just the slightest amount of compression for the saddle clamp ears into the seat mast cap, the bite is way too strong for them to rotate.
I have one of those nightmare seat posts. Emonda SLR 2015. Trek shop mechanic can’t level it perpendicular to frame. Bought two brand new seats and same issue.
All saddle clamp hardware needs to be removed to change the saddle's angle, I've worked with a handful before. I think this is the only saddle clamp I had to do this to.
a product annoyance i’ve come across recently is on the Wahoo Kickr v5 - the “700c” wheel setting places the rear axle a good 15-20mm or so higher than the front when it’s mounted with a 700c wheel.
So, you have to figure out the front wheel height via other means, relative to the rear, or putting the trainer to the “650c” setting. For me, i couldn’t figure out why my fit felt great on the road, and trainer sessions i was “riding down hill”, or the saddle angle was off, or some other crap.
There’s a whole reddit thread out there on it 🤦🏻♂️ …c’mon wahoo!
Pedal axles you are soooooooo correct. I have 2 sets of 10 year old speedplays I am maintaining well......
I just binned my seatpost and got a proper adjustable one from Decathlon One bolt in front, one in the back.. easily adjustable and stable as a rock.. for a mere 30,- or so. Luckily I don't need an expensive super lightweight aero carbon proprietary seatpost or clamp...
Integrated seat posts you can only cut once . . . by error.
The felt ia has those saddle clamps, I actually like that you can easily swap a saddle without having to re-set your angle. The main gripe I have is that they wear and slightly wobble.
How about five most loved? I would love to hear about a good seat post.
Cannot agree more with the q-factor on pedal system. If i want more q-factor, the only option is to buy the pedal extender which is minimum 16mm or 20mm on one side. So it is like 40mm adjustment or nothing. My question is based on Neil's fitting, what is the most popular increased in q-factor? 8mm?
Good question - I use a LOT of the +8mm pedals from SQ labs. It's rare that a rider needs the +15mm versions but they do happen. Very occasionally around once a quarter I have to resort to 20mm pedal extenders! - Neill
You could get a wahoo kickr rollr. It will work with blind rear axles
I wonder if that would keep the frame and rider stable enough for a bike fitter to be able to properly do their job
@@danielakerman8241Based on my experience (I can only do the very basics: Saddle height + fore & aft + angle and cockpit adjustments), I think it wouldn't pose a problem for me.
Neil's videos so good he's got me debating getting a fit with him (I live in Canada 5000km away)
My very expensive 2022 Trek Emonda has that terrible seat mast. And since it is a mast, I can't easily replace it with anything better. Ugh!
I've got the same but tbh I've set it and it doesn't move.
Oh boy, I hate that one. I've worked with a handful and I have to remove ALL saddle clamp hardware just to change the saddle's angle as the bite is way too strong when the saddle clamp ears are subjected to even the lightest compression force, so I have to anticipate the saddle's angle when I put everything back together, no midway adjustment.
Ritchey Seat Mast is great replacement option, if you have enough height left.
Haha I had a 3T Difflock seatpost. I thought the post itself was pretty good, but the tilt adjustment was confusing. I reckon if I had to deal with them very often I’d hate them too 😂
flat pedals should be prescribed?
My Tailfin carbon panier system works with a custom through axle so no BMC for me....(also recall that my old BMC had a very odd seat post clamp with internal wedge and side bolt on post)
For the wheel-on trainer problem, just change over to a Wahoo Kickr Roller.
I experienced the same with fizik shoe, the bolt location is just not rear enough for my feet.
Look used to do a pedal with the ability to change the Q factor, the CX7. I have a set. They also had a shim system. They were very expensive though. And you never used the bits.
Fiz'ik in the x3 overcurve and r4 tempo have a really nice rearward cleat position. Admittedly without the bolt movement like in Lake or Shimano, but they fit my foot like no other shoe I have tried.
Pedal spindle length options sound like another great market for Hambibi!
Had one of those 3T seatposts. What a nightmare to setup.
Neill could try Keywin pedals from kiwiland six or seven axle lengths minus 5 mm , 3 mm, 0 , plus 3 , 6 and 10 mm i think from memory
Had a fit today he used the Wahoo Rollr. Get it.
AHhh! You were stringing me along! I thought you were going to call out the BMC ICS Carbon Cockpit. Not the new Aero one but the existing one that's been on the SLR01 for some years now. I'm a fitter with 2+ years experience and i HATE the BMC Carbon cockpit. The new one seems to solve all of the problems with the current one but introduces a new issue because it's only available with 12.5° of flare and comes in at 36cm at the tops....
I am looking into buying the BMC Teammachine with the current BMC carbon cockpit; what are the problems you have encountered with it? And what has been solved with the new flared cockpits?
That's the reason ipt use either the ostro gravel seatpost or darimo that clamp top to bottom 😅
Try the Thompson seat post.
Race Face XY from the nineties is in my opinion the best seat post imo
One of the best “features” of my Favero Duo-Shi power meters is the added Q-factor. For the first time in well over 20 years I don’t have sore feet anymore… Don’t know why it took me so long to figure this out, but always took it for granted.
exactly the reason I got them six months ago, they're pure bliss
Canyon Aeroad has same seatpost issue (at least 2021 model). Horrible to adjust
Even just trying to get my cleat under the ball of my foot my road Sidis don’t have enough slot and it’s super frustrating. My 15 year old Sidi mountain shoes definitely allow me to put the cleat in the right position, but the cleat is much smaller. Go figure
Wahoo Roller or Omni rollers by feedback sports that whaat we have and use as necessary along with Computrainer and KICKR
Your talk of Q factor sparked a thought in me.
Shimano has a rather public problem with "Hollow tech" cranks. It seems obvious that heavy powerful riders put more bending load on the crank, but perhaps less obvious is the torque from the pedal offset. You say bigger more powerful riders need more Q factor, or pedal offset. That increases torsion stresses significantly so the combination....
Perhaps bike fitters are to blame for Shimano's woes, or more properly Shimamo should have allowed for longer pedal spindles.
The wahoo rollers are awesome no messing around with thru axels anymore and quick set up
Debatable that pedals offset aka Q-factor is responsible for Shimano's crank woes which is largely a design and/or manufacturing issue. I ride only Shimano cranks btw.
@@lukewalker1051 Shimano need to find the cause. That needs a lot of research (for them to do).
I've been an engineer for a lot of years and seen how things are designed and how the corners of the load envelope can be missed or even glossed over. This is just another possibility.
Deep section low spoke count wheels with small diameter flange hubs!
I had one of those Ionic seatposts. A nightmare to set up, indeed
If Golfers can get fitter-only equipment, it's ridiculous that Shimano, Look, Time, and Speedplay can't offer spindles for bike fitting studios. I mean, seriously, just fire up the CNC lathe and run it overnight for a bin of parts in the morning that would last most fitting studios 10 years.
Very good video thanks.
The 3T seat post thing, which I have, sucked. Couldn’t ever get it right…. Replaced with the newer version…. Ritchey clamp…. Not made….
Before the video starts, I just bought a new pair of Sidi shoes and the thumbnail has me a little weak in the knees and its not because of poor fit or no arch support.
Slipping seat posts are just dropper seat posts in slow motion!
You have the new wahoo kikr roller. I think that would work great ; )
I run a 15€ toseek carbon seatpost with a super duper simple clamp that works easy...XD. I had one 3T before and just threw it away...
May one ask what’s your favourite 5 items from modern bikes ? If you have any knowledge from classic bikes your 5 favourite items .
Yes!!! to the 🤬 designed seat posts that damn near require a jig to adjust them and only after you have to beat apart.
Xpedo makes a whole axle kit for bike fitters
what about the giant tcr saddle system on the 2014 tcr the 2 bots at either end 2 get ur saddle angle right
A longitudinal two-bolt saddle clamp? Usually the front bolt is responsible for setting the angle (this is why you may see a wheel instead of a bolt head here for some seatposts) and the rear bolt is to clamp the saddle rail down.
However, as the saddle will tilt towards the back as you tighten the rear bolt until you've torqued it down, it can take a few tries as you'll need to anticipate how much more it'll tilt before the rear bolt reaches torque spec.
Yes but they always creak
yea, but that clamp never slipped, ever! Set it and forget it!
You can buy extenders that go in between the pedal and the crank. I use ergotec 35mm and Crankbrothers Stamp Large which was and I think still is the largest pedal available. But the problem with them is that usually pedals are 8mm hex but that doesn't fit through the ergotec extenders. So you have saw a Topeak 5 to 8mm hex spacer in half to attach them. Some pedals have the 15mm 2 sided hex for a wrench on the spindle but if you don't have that then the only option is that.
A common problem is just outwards splayed feet even if you are regular size or even a smaller person. So if you have normal pedals it forces your knees into the frame. Usually it's not a problem for casual biking but for technical riding it limits your force through your feet to handle the bike. And for serious road biking it's going to cause issues in the knees or in the hip flexors, or whatever muscle, when you have to use force to keep your knees outward from the frame.
Single bolt seat clamp even on my kids bike is shite.
Want more q-factor options? Well it's going to raise the prices that everyone already ignorantly complains about being "to high"(generally out of touch people who are disconnected from making the things they use, people who don't get context, and are ignorant to the realities of manufacturing, and business). This is the fact of the matter; if you think it's not, why don't you start making spindles or pedals and start selling them yourselves? Show the world how it's done, lol!
I hate my almost all my 3T products
Shimano: "Uh . . . Neil, about this 4Q Factor"
Back-up system = KICKR ROLLR?
Felt Tri bikes had 3t
Its still hilarious to me that $1x,xxx flagship bikes don't come with custom fit components. For that kind of money... hell, for a $3K 105 carbon bike.... you should be getting a fit and full concierge build service. Road bike brands invest millions into marketable nonsense but don't address actual customer problems lmao.
3T seat post 😡
Wahoo rollers
I like how you dingos pronounce the word consumer as "conshoooomer"
hahaha! And I like your stache Buckcram! It's magnificent :-)