These winders were built to CODE. The local building inspector in Bar Harbor approved them. Remember that the code is a set of *recommendations*. Local inspectors can approve whatever they want. It's not hard to build winder stairs, but there are a few tricks. If you get stuck and need some serious help or me to do the math for you, I offer you my help. I can call you on the phone. Go here to set it up: shop.askthebuilder.com/products/15-Minute-Phone-Conversation-with-Tim.html
YW as we say in Morse. That's what my AsktheBuilder.com website is all about. Curating my knowledge to help you. You should subscribe to my FREE newsletter if you want regular doses of wisdom, or blabber, as my wife calls it!
We have two winders exactly as you showed. How do we lay engineered hardwood on the winders so that the hardwood from the first floor flows down the steps to the second floor?
You do it with great skill. If you want me to coach you, it requires a phone call. Far far too much to type. shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
How much of a job would it be to convert a set of straight short steps into longer steps with a winder (the winder would be because there's a wall that you'd run into by making the steps longer)
You're wrong. They are code-compliant - it depends on where the stairs are located. code is a collection of *recommendations* that local building officials can accept, modify, ignore, etc. In this case, the Bar Harbor chief code official allowed them. She is a wise inspector who knows that the stairs are SAFE. I've had enough trips around the sun to see enough versions of the code to know it's not always the best standard. Here are two examples: 1. Thirty years ago the code said NO moisture barrier was required on the exterior of wood-frame buildings when brick or stone veneer was applied with a minimum 3/4-inch air space. It was known for 100 years before this that brick buildings leak water. Idiot code officials. 2. Start to walk up a staircase as would any normal person. Do you hug the wall? What is the center of your body with respect to the sidewalls of the staircase? It's close to 17 inches from the wall. Now measure where your feet are on the treads. You'll discover that the tread depth on the set of winders you see in the above video EXCEEDS the minimum stated in the code where one's feet will contact the treads. Rhetorical question: How many deaths or serious injuries are in the journals of medicine about the tens of thousands of sets of winder stairs like you see in this video that can be found in countless older homes across the USA and Europe?
I'm trying to build a winder staircase in a tiny house, the space is 600x600mm sq and a height of 1830mm, I'm thinking 56degrees for the first step, 45 for the second, 30 for the third then a landing and and then the last steps normal any advice on this? Been doing my head in for a few weeks
Grim, I offer advice and my protection from expensive errors via phone calls. If you want my protection, do this: shop.askthebuilder.com/products/15-Minute-Phone-Conversation-with-Tim.html
I doubt it. Circular staircases are continuous winders top to bottom. Sweeping curved staircases are a set of continuous winders. I think those facts pretty much answer your question, but I've been wrong before! ;-) Thanks for watching the video. I'll conclude that when you have a question about the building code, *NEVER EVER* trust the answer given here on RUclips. There's only one person you should ask - the building inspector that will inspect YOUR job. She/he is the person you need to satisfy and no one else. GL as we say in Morse.
You're correct. But guess what? Local building inspectors can override the code. That's what happened here. The local building inspector has approved these stairs. The walk line at 12 inches on these meets the 10-inch tread requirement. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of winder steps just like you see in this video all over the USA in older homes and people have gone up and down them with no issues for decades. Don't ever believe for a minute that what's in the code is the *best way* to do something. I distinctly remember a past edition of the building code that allowed frame houses to have *NO* water barrier behind brick veneer if a certain spacing existed between the back of the brick and the sheathing. That's perhaps the *worst* building practice I can think of especially when it's been known for decades that brick walls leak - all of them.
Good luck with finding an inspector that will override the code. I would rather do it per code than having to rip it out and redo it. I have them in my 40+ year old house too and would prefer not to have a 2 ft drop in one spot.
The local inspector *did approve* the steps in this video. I'm sure there are other inspectors across the USA that would approve them as well. Look at my above replies as to why. Some inspectors understand the code is not always right or in the best interests of the homeowner. I don't know if you have a full grasp of how the code works with local municipalities. The local inspectors can reject, modify or stiffen different parts of the code. And I believe I said it before, don't think for a moment the *code* is the north star of building. It's a set of minimum standards and those who author the code make mistakes.
I would do this by drawing up a plan and then I'd probably gather a saw, some wood, screws, levels, and a few other tools. If you need detailed instructions, I offer phone coaching: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Bill, over hundreds of years there were winder stairs that were built as you see in this video of mine. Have you given any thought as to why architects continued to specify them? The answer is easy: Typically the handrail on the staircase is on the opposite wall of the inner winder radius. Go to a set of steps and put your arm comfortably on the handrail. Look down at your feet. Where is the centerline of your body on the staircase? You'll discover the centerline of your body/feet is about 16 inches from the wall! Now, measure the depth of the treads going up the winders 16 inches away from the wall. Have you ever seen someone, other than a blind person, try to go up or down a set of winders on the inside radius? Don't always trust the code. I can show you multiple instances in the past where it was WRONG.
@@askthebuilder from what I've watched you seem like a man with many talents and I like to learn lol who doesn't well my kids Well im a jack of all trades man I just like to do it all but recently well when my fiance just bought a house her realtor with what I know on things So when they had the home inspector come in to check it out and plus I was there pre wifey stuff They where both amazed with what I know and stuff home inspector and realtor So the question is now i dont know if i want to learn more about everything i do or just keep doing what i do impress people with my work
Should have framed the flight run wider so you don't have that crappy finish where the stair has to go by the floor. As a guy that's installed stairs for 15 years I find that stair annoying as hell to skirt. A 2 step winder is way more comfortable and safe. I personally think winders should be thrown out the door. Stair guys commonly call them granny killers. Good video though. Triple winder does in fact pick up a rise if you need it.
Understand the building code is a set of RECOMMENDATIONS. Local code officials can ignore/modify as much as they want. In this case, the building inspector had NO ISSUES with the winders because there are hundreds of older houses in the town that have the same steps and she's never heard of one person being injured in a fall on the steps. People need to exercise some common sense and think about where the footfall are on steps like this. It's not on the inner 9 inches of the inner turn for goodness sake.
They are actually quite easy to do. Just build a lower platform and start stacking the successfully smaller triangles on one another. If you need phone support/coaching, I offer it: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Yesterday I fell off a winder going straight down 13 wooden stairs face forward. I could have been paralyzed or died. Required a CT scan and X-rays. How can I fix that higher up the stair winder?
You must not have been hurt badly at all. Look how coherent your comment is. No brain injury nor to your arms or hands. Remarkable typing. Glad you survived. My recommendation is to pay closer attention next time. Millions of people navigated winder stairs as you see in this video for hundreds of years and virtually all never were paralyzed. Think about where the centerline of your footfalls are when you go up and down stairs. Take that measurement and put it on a set of winders to see how large the tread area is at that point. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
MM, surely this is a jape! You start with a square platform and then start stacking on it each of either the polygons and then the last triangle. Can't you see how easy this is to do? Just DRAW it out on the subfloor exactly where each riser face will be and create the different platforms. I have the raw footage showing me doing this in my shed. I'll do my best this weekend to transform them into a long-form finished video.
Yes, that would have been possible had the house been longer. It's a matter of how much horizontal space you can devote to the staircase. This is why circular staircases only need 5 feet of horizontal opening in a floor. Make sense?
The stairs are not to code and look odd...any inspector or architect (who MIGHT sign off), is open for liability claim upon injury occurrence. Imagine your wife tripping down them with a laundry basket full of clothes at the very least.
Scot, have you ever paid attention to where your feet fall when you walk up and down steps? Take a tape measure with you and measure the distance of the centerline of your body from either side wall of the stairs when you normally walk up or down a set of steps. Then I want you to go visit older homes that have had winders like this for hundreds of years. Engage your critical-thinking skills, my man! Are you implying that the architects of 100, 200, or more years ago were dolts? That they wouldn't alter the design after seeing tens of thousands of people trip on winders made like this? They didn't have to alter their design as you see in this video because people didn't trip going up and down the steps. You'll discover that the width of the tread in the centerline of where you normally walk is almost identical to a normal set of steps. You put far too much faith in the wisdom of the nanny-state code officials that came up with the current design for winders. I'll close with this. If the building code is so great, tell me how it can be that not too many decades ago the wise code officials said it was okay to have BARE WOOD with NO weather barrier whatsoever behind certain exterior finishes. Can you believe that was in the code???!!!
You will be tripping on your face if you put 3 steps in that amount of space . Move the door over a few inches or make door smaller you will be glad you did instead of making a trip hazard for you daughter . Most town building codes don’t allow winder stair cases for this reason unless it’s Grandfathered in or going to a basement where theres loop holes in the code . Hopefully your building inspector isn’t experienced.
Joshua, I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. It's important for you to realize I'm NOT the builder of this house. Someone else built the steps and they're fine. I've gone up and down them hundreds of times already installing the plumbing, radiant floor heating, and the electric. Never have I had any issues. There are countless winder steps out there like this and very few are trip hazards. When was the last time you went up or down steps hugging the wall? Never. Your body centerline is about 16 inches out from either wall. Your feet easily fall where there's plenty of tread. As for the building inspector on this job, she's one of the most experienced one's I've EVER worked with. She had no issue with the stairs and she has inspected thousands of jobs.
Steven, you must be a Padawan carpenter. You don't understand how the building code works. The code is a suggested set of recommendations. Cities, towns, local inspectors can reject portions of the code or even make sections more stringent. In this case, the local inspector was fine with the install because the stairs are as safe as can be. Do the math on winders to find the centerline of your feet on the treads. You'll be amazed at what you discover. The treads are actually wider on this line than on the straight set of steps connected to the winders. Start pushing back. Start using your tiny gray cells and don't think the code is the end-all and be-all.
@@askthebuilder I'm not looking at it from a lawyer's perspective. You should have disclosed the proper way to do the winder, and then explain how you did it for whatever reason. As of now, I think you didn't really know, but are trying to instruct us anyway.
These winders were built to CODE. The local building inspector in Bar Harbor approved them. Remember that the code is a set of *recommendations*. Local inspectors can approve whatever they want.
It's not hard to build winder stairs, but there are a few tricks. If you get stuck and need some serious help or me to do the math for you, I offer you my help. I can call you on the phone. Go here to set it up: shop.askthebuilder.com/products/15-Minute-Phone-Conversation-with-Tim.html
Thanks so much! Building the winder portion of our stairs tonight.
Well, the suspense is KILLING us! How did they turn out?
thank you so much i am having this problem retro fitting my own stairs and you just saved me i cant say how much relief i feel now thank you
Glad I could help! Always keep in mind where your feet fall as you walk up/down. Your feet aren't in the tight-radius area.
Thanks for sharing all your years of wisdom
YW as we say in Morse. That's what my AsktheBuilder.com website is all about. Curating my knowledge to help you. You should subscribe to my FREE newsletter if you want regular doses of wisdom, or blabber, as my wife calls it!
Very clear explanation, thanks
Tim I LOVE UR VIDEOS....
TNX. Be sure to subscribe to my FREE newsletter at: www.AsktheBuilder.com
We have two winders exactly as you showed. How do we lay engineered hardwood on the winders so that the hardwood from the first floor flows down the steps to the second floor?
You do it with great skill. If you want me to coach you, it requires a phone call. Far far too much to type. shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
How much of a job would it be to convert a set of straight short steps into longer steps with a winder (the winder would be because there's a wall that you'd run into by making the steps longer)
It would be a big job.
They’re not code compliant the smallest part of winder needs to be 6”
You're wrong. They are code-compliant - it depends on where the stairs are located. code is a collection of *recommendations* that local building officials can accept, modify, ignore, etc. In this case, the Bar Harbor chief code official allowed them. She is a wise inspector who knows that the stairs are SAFE. I've had enough trips around the sun to see enough versions of the code to know it's not always the best standard. Here are two examples:
1. Thirty years ago the code said NO moisture barrier was required on the exterior of wood-frame buildings when brick or stone veneer was applied with a minimum 3/4-inch air space. It was known for 100 years before this that brick buildings leak water. Idiot code officials.
2. Start to walk up a staircase as would any normal person. Do you hug the wall? What is the center of your body with respect to the sidewalls of the staircase? It's close to 17 inches from the wall. Now measure where your feet are on the treads. You'll discover that the tread depth on the set of winders you see in the above video EXCEEDS the minimum stated in the code where one's feet will contact the treads. Rhetorical question: How many deaths or serious injuries are in the journals of medicine about the tens of thousands of sets of winder stairs like you see in this video that can be found in countless older homes across the USA and Europe?
Helpful. Thank you
Would one be able to change the top of the stairs from straight to winder?
You can but with enormous difficulty.
LVL over the door opening. Thumbs up bud
YW YL as we say in Morse. If you liked that video, you'll probably love my FREE AsktheBuilder.com newsletter. www.askthebuilder.com/newsletter/
Should winders cost a lot more labor?
One would think so.
I'm trying to build a winder staircase in a tiny house, the space is 600x600mm sq and a height of 1830mm, I'm thinking 56degrees for the first step, 45 for the second, 30 for the third then a landing and and then the last steps normal any advice on this? Been doing my head in for a few weeks
Grim, I offer advice and my protection from expensive errors via phone calls. If you want my protection, do this: shop.askthebuilder.com/products/15-Minute-Phone-Conversation-with-Tim.html
Can you send me any links on laying hardwood on a curved step like this
Just go to my www.AsktheBuilder.com website and search for: "hardwood installation". Easy.
Solid 3/4 oak
@@askthebuilder hardwood installation
can you explain how the formwork from wilder stairs on concrete?
No, I can't. There's no benefit to me investing that time.
Is there a rule in the IBC for how many winder stairs are allowed?
I doubt it. Circular staircases are continuous winders top to bottom. Sweeping curved staircases are a set of continuous winders. I think those facts pretty much answer your question, but I've been wrong before! ;-) Thanks for watching the video. I'll conclude that when you have a question about the building code, *NEVER EVER* trust the answer given here on RUclips. There's only one person you should ask - the building inspector that will inspect YOUR job. She/he is the person you need to satisfy and no one else. GL as we say in Morse.
This winder stair doesn't meet current IRC code. You must have a minimum of 6" width on the narrow edge of the tread.
You're correct. But guess what? Local building inspectors can override the code. That's what happened here. The local building inspector has approved these stairs. The walk line at 12 inches on these meets the 10-inch tread requirement. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of winder steps just like you see in this video all over the USA in older homes and people have gone up and down them with no issues for decades. Don't ever believe for a minute that what's in the code is the *best way* to do something. I distinctly remember a past edition of the building code that allowed frame houses to have *NO* water barrier behind brick veneer if a certain spacing existed between the back of the brick and the sheathing. That's perhaps the *worst* building practice I can think of especially when it's been known for decades that brick walls leak - all of them.
Good luck with finding an inspector that will override the code. I would rather do it per code than having to rip it out and redo it.
I have them in my 40+ year old house too and would prefer not to have a 2 ft drop in one spot.
The local inspector *did approve* the steps in this video. I'm sure there are other inspectors across the USA that would approve them as well. Look at my above replies as to why. Some inspectors understand the code is not always right or in the best interests of the homeowner. I don't know if you have a full grasp of how the code works with local municipalities. The local inspectors can reject, modify or stiffen different parts of the code. And I believe I said it before, don't think for a moment the *code* is the north star of building. It's a set of minimum standards and those who author the code make mistakes.
Common sense is the best code. Nothing bad about narrow inside edge if the tread is wide.
@@askthebuilder If you knew this wasn't code, then you should have disclosed that from the get go, otherwise don't spread misinformation.
Hello had few questions??
Yes, I answer questions. Go here to set up the phone call: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
How do I put in winder in a cantilever staircase with two landing
I would do this by drawing up a plan and then I'd probably gather a saw, some wood, screws, levels, and a few other tools. If you need detailed instructions, I offer phone coaching: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Here you need to have 6" on the outside of the step...much safer too rather than -0-, as here.
Bill, over hundreds of years there were winder stairs that were built as you see in this video of mine. Have you given any thought as to why architects continued to specify them? The answer is easy: Typically the handrail on the staircase is on the opposite wall of the inner winder radius. Go to a set of steps and put your arm comfortably on the handrail. Look down at your feet. Where is the centerline of your body on the staircase? You'll discover the centerline of your body/feet is about 16 inches from the wall! Now, measure the depth of the treads going up the winders 16 inches away from the wall. Have you ever seen someone, other than a blind person, try to go up or down a set of winders on the inside radius? Don't always trust the code. I can show you multiple instances in the past where it was WRONG.
good point rick c
Remember, each inspector allows different things. Get unlimited FREE tips like this each week by subscribing to my newsletter at www.AsktheBuilder.com
Have a really good question
Excellent! There's no such thing as a bad question.
@@askthebuilder from what I've watched you seem like a man with many talents and I like to learn lol who doesn't well my kids
Well im a jack of all trades man I just like to do it all but recently well when my fiance just bought a house her realtor with what I know on things
So when they had the home inspector come in to check it out and plus I was there pre wifey stuff
They where both amazed with what I know and stuff home inspector and realtor
So the question is now i dont know if i want to learn more about everything i do or just keep doing what i do impress people with my work
Easy. Follow your heart. That's what I'd do.
Should have framed the flight run wider so you don't have that crappy finish where the stair has to go by the floor. As a guy that's installed stairs for 15 years I find that stair annoying as hell to skirt. A 2 step winder is way more comfortable and safe. I personally think winders should be thrown out the door. Stair guys commonly call them granny killers. Good video though. Triple winder does in fact pick up a rise if you need it.
I wasn't the builder on the job. The finished stairs came out fantastic so you know.
Don’t think that winder is Up to code from what I’ve heard cannot be any narrower at the triangle than 6 inches.
Understand the building code is a set of RECOMMENDATIONS. Local code officials can ignore/modify as much as they want. In this case, the building inspector had NO ISSUES with the winders because there are hundreds of older houses in the town that have the same steps and she's never heard of one person being injured in a fall on the steps. People need to exercise some common sense and think about where the footfall are on steps like this. It's not on the inner 9 inches of the inner turn for goodness sake.
Winder stairs very nice design but not easy to do.
They are actually quite easy to do. Just build a lower platform and start stacking the successfully smaller triangles on one another. If you need phone support/coaching, I offer it: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Yesterday I fell off a winder going straight down 13 wooden stairs face forward. I could have been paralyzed or died. Required a CT scan and X-rays. How can I fix that higher up the stair winder?
You must not have been hurt badly at all. Look how coherent your comment is. No brain injury nor to your arms or hands. Remarkable typing. Glad you survived. My recommendation is to pay closer attention next time. Millions of people navigated winder stairs as you see in this video for hundreds of years and virtually all never were paralyzed. Think about where the centerline of your footfalls are when you go up and down stairs. Take that measurement and put it on a set of winders to see how large the tread area is at that point. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
After watching this I still don't know how to build a winder, wasn't explained in detail step by step...🙄 Thanks
MM, surely this is a jape! You start with a square platform and then start stacking on it each of either the polygons and then the last triangle. Can't you see how easy this is to do? Just DRAW it out on the subfloor exactly where each riser face will be and create the different platforms. I have the raw footage showing me doing this in my shed. I'll do my best this weekend to transform them into a long-form finished video.
Everyone will regret not having Landings instead of Winders, time coming..
Sometimes you need winders because you don't have the needed horizontal space for a landing only. Each winder is it's own landing.
xix
CXVII To get unlimited free tips each week like this, be sure to sign up for my FREE newsletter at www.AsktheBuilder.com
Couldn’t you just put a landing, and than come straight off that rather than a complete 180
Yes, that would have been possible had the house been longer. It's a matter of how much horizontal space you can devote to the staircase. This is why circular staircases only need 5 feet of horizontal opening in a floor. Make sense?
Yes, Thanks !@@askthebuilder
Yes,however,it would cause the stairs to come further into the hall or room they land in. That is why he is adding a third winder near that doorway.
Winder Stairs
very observant
Thanks Very much for your help
The stairs are not to code and look odd...any inspector or architect (who MIGHT sign off), is open for liability claim upon injury occurrence. Imagine your wife tripping down them with a laundry basket full of clothes at the very least.
Scot, have you ever paid attention to where your feet fall when you walk up and down steps? Take a tape measure with you and measure the distance of the centerline of your body from either side wall of the stairs when you normally walk up or down a set of steps. Then I want you to go visit older homes that have had winders like this for hundreds of years. Engage your critical-thinking skills, my man! Are you implying that the architects of 100, 200, or more years ago were dolts? That they wouldn't alter the design after seeing tens of thousands of people trip on winders made like this?
They didn't have to alter their design as you see in this video because people didn't trip going up and down the steps. You'll discover that the width of the tread in the centerline of where you normally walk is almost identical to a normal set of steps.
You put far too much faith in the wisdom of the nanny-state code officials that came up with the current design for winders. I'll close with this. If the building code is so great, tell me how it can be that not too many decades ago the wise code officials said it was okay to have BARE WOOD with NO weather barrier whatsoever behind certain exterior finishes. Can you believe that was in the code???!!!
You will be tripping on your face if you put 3 steps in that amount of space . Move the door over a few inches or make door smaller you will be glad you did instead of making a trip hazard for you daughter . Most town building codes don’t allow winder stair cases for this reason unless it’s Grandfathered in or going to a basement where theres
loop holes in the code . Hopefully your building inspector isn’t experienced.
Joshua, I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. It's important for you to realize I'm NOT the builder of this house. Someone else built the steps and they're fine. I've gone up and down them hundreds of times already installing the plumbing, radiant floor heating, and the electric. Never have I had any issues.
There are countless winder steps out there like this and very few are trip hazards. When was the last time you went up or down steps hugging the wall? Never. Your body centerline is about 16 inches out from either wall. Your feet easily fall where there's plenty of tread. As for the building inspector on this job, she's one of the most experienced one's I've EVER worked with. She had no issue with the stairs and she has inspected thousands of jobs.
These steps at the winder is not according to code, nor will it be a comfortable flight.
Steven, you must be a Padawan carpenter. You don't understand how the building code works. The code is a suggested set of recommendations. Cities, towns, local inspectors can reject portions of the code or even make sections more stringent.
In this case, the local inspector was fine with the install because the stairs are as safe as can be. Do the math on winders to find the centerline of your feet on the treads. You'll be amazed at what you discover. The treads are actually wider on this line than on the straight set of steps connected to the winders. Start pushing back. Start using your tiny gray cells and don't think the code is the end-all and be-all.
@@askthebuilder I'm not looking at it from a lawyer's perspective.
You should have disclosed the proper way to do the winder, and then explain how you did it for whatever reason.
As of now, I think you didn't really know, but are trying to instruct us anyway.