How Machiavellian was Carmine Sr? Machiavellian Monday
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2022
- In evaluating the question, how Machiavellian is Carmine Sr, we will start by looking at his intellect, before moving on to evaluating his actions regarding Johnny Sack's move to New Jersey, Johnny Sack's request to take out Ralph Cifaretto, the sitdown regarding that request, as well as the fall out from that meeting...all the while keeping an eye out for possible ulterior motives and whether or not they were executed in a Machiavellian way as well.
Michael Franzese episode: • Real OR Fake? Mob Boss...
How Machiavellian was Carmine?
It should be "How Lupertazzian was Machiavelli?" 🤣🤣
👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑
Schwab over here.
Haha this is gold 😂
How Chase-ish was each family?
@@XanderShiller You mean just the sopranos and the lupertazzi's, or would you like to add the sacrimoni/Leotardo hybrid to the equation?
The only true “boss” on the show imo
He doesn’t wear shorts either
Cant argue with that. Thanks for watching!
So what the f*ck was Jackie Aprile Sr? A schmuck? Or some kinda off eggplant!? Oof! Madone!! ..forgetitaboutit.
Johnny Sack aswell
@@bullywhispers9544 I think an overlooked detail in regards to what Carmine Sr represented was the exact thing Tony talked about in his opening monologue in the pilot.
Carmine represented the old school. The traditions. The standards. The golden era.
"A true Machiavelli doesn't wear shorts"
Carmine Lupertazzi, philosopher
Modern day Marcus Aurelius
A true Sun Tazoo never wears shorts
NY never respected Jersey or the Sopranos… he was right, a Boss doesn’t wear shorts! 😂 how many lessons could he teach him before the other easier option is just to take him out?
If Carmine got rid of Tony and installed a new boss in Jersey I think he'd pick Paulie. He thinks the world of him.
Its sad how Paulie's dad was killed on the trolley. :)
After carmine dies, that's when literally everything falls apart for both families.
Facts
Which tells you who was really calling the shots.
He never named a successor.
Agreed. I’d say the death of Jackie also precipitated demise.
Sopranos is the story of the end times of the Italian American mafia, and Carmine is the last gangster of a bygone era. He outlived his contemporaries and dodged jail. He played the game better and longer than anyone else, and for that he gets to die an old man's unglamorous death.
George Pagilieri who arranged Butch and Tony’s sitdown was said to be a retired New York boss as well. It seemed like he might have been somewhat close to Carmine Sr.
I think Johnny Zack poisoned him. His death at that lunch was just too sudden and convenient. And the way Johnny reacted was like he wasn't surprised but just 'oh dear, too bad'.
@Construction Site Exactly. You think that's crazy and that's the genius behind it. Johnny was super underhanded and followed his emotions more than rules. He wanted to wack Ralphie over a joke and actually made moves. So why not this, especially with poison. Who would think?
@@chipwanderlust113 maybe maybe but i think Carmine just had a stroke and died
@@chaddy2409 that makes sense in life but in there's the context of the story to look for hints at.
this really makes you realize how tony is constantly walking through a minefield, especially when it comes to new york
Tony is a mine himself
Small details, noticed in the final sit down in the park:
1) Carmine had his full attention on Tony not even acknowledging Christopher's presence at all, keeping focused on the main target
2) On both times when Carmine hugged Tony it looks like he's patting him down for a wire check, the man is always paying attention to every since detail and preparing for every possible outcome
Definitely my favourite character of the series! Would have liked to know more about his past though
I always thought it had a lot to do with his and all of New York's contempt for Chris, their impatience with Tony's favoring of low-quality talent. Christopher's sense of entitlement was off the charts.
Chris would of never got made in new york with his stupidity and drug habit
@@jcarry5214 Carmine Sr didn't really acknowledge anyone from Jersey besides Junior, Tony, Sil or someone who was a big earner for their shared intrest like Ralph. He didn't even acknowledge Paulie, who he should've at least known considering Paulie went back to Junior and Johnny Boy's era
No, no, no......It was little Carmine who was the true genius!
"sure, brainless the second.."
He was very allegorical.
Well, it would be difficult to say that he would be until he is. You gotta remember he was at the precipice of a crossroads and constantly had to deal with the sacred AND the propane.
@@gnolan4281 he didnt wanna get clapped in irons
@@frenchsterr4708 even though he outshone "Versayles"?
Outstanding observation, from a guy who fixes wet T-shirt contests
Did machiavelli invent point shaving?
Didn't think so.....
Machiavelli was writing books while carmine Sr was inventing point shaving
After Johnny, Carmine Sr is my favorite character. He was a true boss that was respected by all. He was a businessman, not a thug, a sort of Buffalino or Castellano.
They should've done more with that Johnny character.
Lol he was an informant
@@alexbethea7009neither Carmine, PC nor RB were informants.
Carmine Sr. Is very obviously a direct reference to Carlo Gambino
@@DrJ-hx7wv he literally has a heart attack in the car of his handler.
Carmine couldn't have ordered a hit, he ordered the egg salad!
Too much gherkins
Loved Carmine Sr so much. Conducted himself so coolly, always seemed to have the power dynamic on his side, regardless of who he was talking to.
His son was Machiavellian as well. He played dumb but got the other problems (soprano crew and Leotardo crew to basically destroy on another.)
He was dumb stop reading into it.
Naw he was definitely a bonehead. Basically AJ grown up.
@@angermacfadden2702 Carmine isnt a pussy or a mental midget. Hes an idiot but hes capable enough and his father was respected enough to be seriously in line as a mob boss. Something AJ never could or would be.
Even though Carmine Jr is generally considered dumb I think he hadle the mafia situation as best as he could. He saw the toxicity of the whole thing and protected himself and his family from it, while still benefiting from the money, influence and "illegal" activities.
Yeah he came off as reluctant especially with the violence. It was Rusty and Co. that were pulling the strings.
Michael Franzese ain't the best source, he knows how they did things in his family in his time, but he's not trustworthy and plenty of other certified ex gangsters turned "I'm a changed man but still wanna act like a wiseguy" hustlers like him have contradicted him on multiple issues. Like he swears seeing a shrink would get anybody clipped but multiple guys are known to have done so, among other things.
Carmine is definitely one of the most Machiavellian on the show, but I don't actually think he wanted Jersey. I think he was happy to let them get their hands dirty and rake in profits off the top. Less profit, but also a lot less risk and headache. He just never really gave any reason for us to believe that and when we see him and others without any of the DiMeo guys around they never talk like it, they talk like things are pretty much as we see em.
Great video, fam. As always 👊
That's right!
Exactly. Why would he want the headache of running a huge lower-profit outfit when he can just eat from their table as he pleases.
It's tough to say how much of a set plan there was regarding Jersey because we see time and again all these guys are jackals looking to scavenge anything they can find. But Carmine was clearly a particularly clever player.
“we share the Esplanade Tony. I don’t want that apple cart upset”
I know Carmine didn’t coin the phrase, but I use the apple cart quote all the time
*tart
"Cart" ? 🤣🤣
You put your sunblock on ?
Carmine SR was the best boss on the show he was always about business it was never personal he didn't react out of emotion like tony Johnny or phil for him it was always about the $$$
Great post. It never occured to me that Carmine could have been undermining John when he gave his son credit for helping solve the dispute with Tony but now in retrospect it seems obvious, especially since LC actually sabotaged the initially settlement.
Quite possibly the best breakdown of a character from The Sopranos ever.
I appreciate your thoughts
I have been waiting for this one, and it did not disappoint! Great work and thanks again.
Great episode!!! Love see something on the 3 old hitmen Chrissy visits "they may be old, bit those dogs can still hunt"..Jr Soprano. 😀
How are you going to make a video about characters that appeared once for a few minutes?
great episode!
This is just like crusader kings. A king (Carmine) sends an agent (Johnny) to a neighbouring duchy (Jersey) to ferment dissent among the Duke (Tony) and his vassals (capos)
The agent starts a faction to kill a vassal (Ralph). The king asks his agent to leave his faction (-20 opinion)
The king then nibbles away at his vassals powerbase so he can eventually assassinate him without incurring an opinion penalty as he has a valid reason (he was the head of a plot).
Nice! I love these Machiavellian Monday videos!
I love how Carmine combs over his one lock of hair XD
I haven't pulled that off in eleven years
Another incredible video my friend
Another great video my brother
Great analysis
Just came across your channel and I fucc with it bros. Keep it up man 🤞🏼👌🏼
Imagine Carmine Sr. and Livia teaming up...they wouldn't know anything about anything and everybody else would be dead
Would’ve great to have a scene with Carmine and Phil
A brief scene of them chatting and sharing a grilled cheese would have been nice
[Finishes watching the video]
All right, let me get the fuck outta here.
A comment or never wears shorts
He was catching, not pitching! 😂
Speaking of being close Sonny said the same thing in A Bronx Tale if he's in the neighborhood he can see trouble with his guys coming
Saying that he's a real old school level headed boss or that hes the most Machiavellian really isnt saying much. He was purposefully written as such and the writers did a good job.
Every character on the show was written by someone . What is your point?
How Machiavellian was Butch could be an interesting one, even though we don’t see much of him
you do a good job
I was always curious about an NY family obsession with NJ. Maybe reading too much into the show but I felt like Carmines family was Maybe being pushed out of NYC from competition from other families and Carmine realized NJ was major territory ruled by a crew a quarter the size of his
No. Exactly the opposite. The Lupertazzi Family, was the most Powerful Family in New York (and the whole USA). That's why, they had their hands in Jersey business. Only them, not the other four Families. The real interest in New Jersey, was the Construction Business. So much projects there, and this pygmy thing had the controll of it. The Lupertazzis wanted full controll. Don Carmine tried with the machiavellian way, Don John didn't had time to make his move, but if Tony had fallen into his trap, and had Don Carmine whacked, Don John would wipe Sopranos out and justified took over Jersey, Don Phil tried the Old-School way-burn them in the ground and take over, but he lost the War because of betrayal, and finally, Don Carmine Lupertazzi Jr, who was the Mastermind behind the whole NY-NJ War, took over everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@user-nz6pl8gz1c That’s right, historically, the 2 major rackets in NJ have always been garbage and construction. After Carmine Sr’s and Barone’s death, the Lupertazzis bought out the waste management firm which further cemented their foothold in Jersey.
Johnny Sack moved to NJ to nurture his relationship with the DiMeo crime family, I think, so that they would back him to be boss.
“Name a price or get the fuck over it”
Eat your egg salad
@@faisalkamal4319I can’t. Too much gherkins
Babe babe get up Bully Whispers uploaded.
What are you still sleeping
Wwoooowwww it was awesome 👌 👏 👍 😍
I love your channel I thought I was the only soprano stan my love for this show was the only reason I watched lilyhammer.Carmine was legit he said less than possible, kept his motives private, would sacrifice if it good business sense
Glad you like it! Thanks for watching!
lilyhammer was awful, but i watched every episode
@@MrBmick79 yep only a mother's love for sopranos got me thru that series
Since he's in such a position of power over the Jersey Boys, I don't really see much gain for Carmine to take NJ. The show makes it clear that Jersey has more to gain from the Lupertazzis than the other way around and if they needed to they could rain the shitstorm like the Sorpranos have never seen, as they do in the end. It really seems that they would rather skim the millions of dollars off of them while Tony has them on call as a powerful ally to keep around and not antagonize.
On the other hand, if they could kill Tony and put someone like Paulie in the driver seat, they could get even more millions of dollars. Allies but not friends, the Lupertazzis correctly ascertained that Tony was withholding information, and the puppeteering guaranteed them millions of more dollars than if they just hung out in New York.
If I was in charge, the Lupertazzis wouldn't dare to do a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@corradosoprano2284 I wish we had a few more sit-downs between you and Carmine
@@aaronrowell6943 Yea. That would be nice!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subbed.
Thanks!
Now go get your fuckin shinebox
;p
Don Carmine Lupertazzi Sr, was the real thing. I agree that he was setting up Tony. His plan, didn't go well, with the Johnny-Ralphie situation, so he decided to get rid of both Johnny and Tony, and make Ralphie his puppet-boss. He was the real King of New York. Capo di tutti Capi. Tony would had no chance against him, because Don Carime Sr, would never do the TERRIBLE MISTAKE Don Phil did, going into hiding durig a war, with no guards with him!!!!!!!!!!!!
V interesting
The only issue is we don’t see him the same and as much as we see Tony he could have been just as messed up behind closed doors we never saw it
Would you consider an episode on James St Patrick
Who?
Carmine was #1 of ALL you evaluations I believe
Carmine was a true boss
I don't care what Mike said. He didn't watch the whole series.
Sounds like to me that Johnny downplayed his importance Carmine sr. That he moved the Jersey to take over the Sopranos and eventually the whole state .
Is there a particular translation/edition of "The Prince" you'd recommend?
I have the version put out by Anachronistic classics
Tony Lip’s real arguably far more interesting than Carmine Lupertazzi’s, which is really saying something.
How am I this late
Prince Matchabelli
It’s going to be very difficult to know for sure how Machiavellian Carmine Sr was until his son becomes boss. Only then can we know for maybe sure. If.
You keep saying the Soprano family? I told you they're a glorified crew!
Bro, edit from 12:20ish to 12:53. Lines were repeated.
Nobody ever beat the spread
There was nothing we could do. The mole on the back of Carmines head was a made guy and the 98lb mole on Ginny Sac's ass wasnt.
It was some real dermitalogical shit.
It's your helt.
You put your sunblock on ?
I think you are a varsity player bully whispers!
If u move into my neighborhood without permission that’s disrespectful. But the fact that JS moved in to Jersey without Tony even knowing, just shows how blind he is… if that were me, I’d say it’s time to gather the troops and go to war. Ofcourse my first move would be to take out JS and send a message to Carmine, that it’s not personal but I won’t let it happen.
Yeah, I also read "The Prince" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Whatever happened there…
WHAT HAPPENED THERE THIS POS COUSIN PUT SIX BULLETS IN MY BROTHER BILLY WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION WHATSOEVER
*Paulie disliked this video*
Don’t forget Son Tazoo
@@peteyprimo7173 Toney turned me on to him
He was the boss how tony should be but he wanted to wear those shorts
Too much gerhkins!
"shut the whole thing down over a dick pic" I don't remember that story line. What happened?
Then came count chocula and shah of Iran
This guy seems to be missing the main point of The Prince. Like why did Mac write it really? The meta of that is important. It's all a big fu to people like this, it's a satirical endightment of that sort, that they can't see but intelctualls like Mac can, not a celebration of them. It's written on two levels one for the thinkers and one for the but of the joke, this interpretation is...
Creeps on this petty pace
That would be the beneficial thing
Jokes aside the sopranos were a glorified crew. That's why they had to kick up to this New York family which irl would be the Gambino's or Genovese or whatever.
I’m not gonna lie, I actually like the flashbacks on the Sopranos more than the series… the guy who played Tony’s dad could actually play a real gangster compared to everybody in the show. He was believable they weren’t.
Ol fish lips
Not at all. Jersey made him money without doing any work or having to get his hands dirty it also acted as a check and balance to any power play from within he had jersey muscle there if needed.
I'm a simple man. I see bully whispers I upvote and subscribe 🤌