I'm a 36 yr old Amateur radio Op, been licensed for 25 yrs ( yes @ age 11 ).. Just stumbled on Hak5 on youtube.. re: the ADSB antenna projects. So awesome! If you guys arent Licensed ( i have no idea yet ) do go after it, its easy, and you can build/hack/mod all kinds of things! You have a new subscriber for sure! Have fun!
Just wanted to point out that the height of the ADS-B receiving Antenna does NOT appreciably affect the Range. The following info was copied from a post by member 'ab cd' at the following link. forum.planefinder.net/threads/ads-b-diy-antenna.23/ In case of Air-to-Ground ADS-B Communications, the Transmitting antenna is on the Aeroplane, which is several thousand feet high. The contribution of height of receiving antenna to the overall range is therefore not appreciable. The range is combination of ranges of transmitting & Receiving antennas. Overall Range = Range of Transmitting Antenna + Range of Receiving Antenna = 1.41 x √h1 + 1.41 x √h2 miles, where h1 = height of transmitting antenna in feet. h2 = height of receiving antenna in feet. Based on these formula, I have calculated the Range for various heights of Receiving Antenna and Airplane, and have tabulated the results. These results show that increasing height of RECEIVING Antenna from 25 to 200 feet does not appreciably affect the overall range of ADS-B.
I use the same software you are using ,it works very well. To get a much a better signal use a TV signal booster. I use a SLx1P Plug in Aerial amplifier booster 20dB ,Without the signal booster i get 5-7 frames/sec and with the signal booster i get 50- 60 frames/sec ! The SLx1P Plug in Aerial amplifier booster 20dB comes with variable gain and thats using my TV roof aerial.
I waited too long to watch this it sounded boring by just reading the title but after watching I'm kinda geeked about it when I get a little cash I'm thinking about giving it a try myself! Thanks for the great videos
Great show - Keep it up, but why didn't you give the little antenna a chance at the top of the fiberglass mast to make the comparison apples to apples?? BTW. I have a commercial aircraft receiver and about a 24" Omni on my roof to participate with the "planefinder" app, and even with just the 24" antenna, I regularly get planes from 200 miles or more. I live near Baltimore, and get planes from Richmond to upstate NY. That being said, as a HAM, I love the DIY aspects of all you've been showing lately!! Thanks for the great shows!
I think adding some ferrite chokes on the USB cable sould enhance the SNR. With this cable I experienced some spurs and many other interferences as the shielding acting like a second antenna. Nice video!
As you know at 1090MHz the signal is very line of sight. Having a higher antenna increases the range of the SDR over having more gain. I have the same SDR units with that same factory antenna, and that mounted at 20', similar to your collinear, I'm able to pickup planes over 100 miles away from Southern California. A more accurate test would have been putting the collinear at the roof level of the van. I have all of the supplies to build a collinear, but I've put it off since the factory antenna is actually tuned quite well for the 1090MHz spectrum.
radiosification Do you think that that or ANYTHING will remove the boredom? What a pain in the butt are these two! She's so bloody nice I wanna puke Is Ham radio this low tech in American? It's on a par with Sesame street.
OK. Second time I've watched this... I like it. But, each time I ask 'did they really put it in a pvc pipe and tape it to a fiberglass pole.' You should've just taped it to the fiberglass pole. The 1/4 wave on top is not too important on this type of antenna. Each time you double the elements, you get less than a 3dB gain. After too many elements doubling only gets 2 dB,,, and so on. I think your 6 foot was very close to optimal for gain vs. length. I really enjoyed the video and the one where you used the drone.
get a weather balloon and hang a huge antenna from it then get or make a super long USB hub like that one to connect it to the pc - probably wouldn't work but will be fun and look cool
Does Antenna Size Matter? 6 inch Dipole vs 6 Foot Collinear!, Hak5 1607. Good stuff. You never know when you might have to jerry rig an portable antenna.... lol It did look pretty good! Nice work. :)
You should see some of the antennas I have built. My biggest is a 464 foot long horizontally polarized dipole for sky wave propagation on 530 KHz. Then I have my double cross dipole for 137 MHz NOAA APT. Modified TV dish's to pick up Inmarsat and GOES East HRPT. Of course I have the 970 MHz and 1090 MHz beacon antennas along with a whole galaxy of wifi antennas on 2.4 and 5 GHz Also the old CB radio didnt get left out. I have built dipoles and ground planes from everyday around the house items and achieved swr of 1:2 or less
if you only striped a quarter wave to a full wave of mantel back over the insulation. and leave the mid section stick out. you have a fully function antenna. Enjoy thinking with it.
I have read if you set the confidence to 3 you get better results or faster results. i havent been able to test a difference between 4 and 3 since i dont get many planes passing through my area when i have time at night to mess with this.
something wrong with your (6 Foot Collinear) if your only getting 170 miles.. You could use a quarter-wave 1090 MHz dipole (about 2" 3/4 inches tall dipole with 4 ground elements) that could easily reach 200 miles under the trees.
For antennas find a ham operator. They should know someone who loves playing with antennas. Bigger done right should be better. But if you dont do the math or neglect your transmission line and impedances in the equations you can quickly find that off the shelf items ARE better. Down scale it all put it on the quad copter. N see how high you can get that ;-)
PS... I think the other versions you mention do give you a stronger signal however, they are more directional than the model you put up. For this app, non-directional is more appropriate.
Putting the antenna inside a pvc pipe will detune it! You could use a red pitaya as an VNA to tune your antenna and then compare it mounted inside and outside a pvc pipe...
You should try virtual radar server, it has a great map. I have a 10 element shorted collinear antenna mounted on a wall and i get a range about 240km over the sea and about 140km in land.
Great hack! To minimize impedance mismatches, try using 50 ohm coax instead of 75 ohm coax for the array. This will reduce reflections at the sma to type N interface. This will increase the signal to noise ratio. Maybe you will see more beacons buried in the current noise floor.
Totally not a fair comparison. One antenna is set up 10 meters above the other one. Helping it clear all the ground obstacles. Could you tell us where you got your 10m cable poll? I know smaller ones are available at Lowes home improvement but have not see one this long or as sturdy. One last thought... I think Shannon really wanted to do an adult version of this. You should have let her. Would def increased subs and thumbs. lol
The coax inside the plastic tube isn't just coax it has been cut into precision lengths and rejoined, to form a "collinear antenna". The video doesn't make this fact clear.
This is great! I wish you have used virtual radar (it has better map). Also, you could reference those planes with flightradar24 just to determine the radius more accurately. If you want to go another extra mile, make a balloon or strap SDR dongle to one of your quadcopters with pineapple. Wonder the kind of antenna you'll need in that case..
I am interested in what you are doing there, not sure what it is I am seeing, but it seems you are able to track planes in your area and know what planes are what... I would be interested to know if this can also be used to track planes who are laying Chemtrails and which airlines it would say is putting them down!! I would appreciate a response.. Thanks..
+Eli Youmans The higher the antenna is -in general - the better it will perform. If there is a plane that's so far away that it's below the horizon and raising your antenna a little higher brings it above the horizon, then yes.
..man these guys do some crazy sh*t. IF *they* were HAMs they could experience field day :). As you've seen and experienced though - what works for you may not work for me and so on and so forth - that's one of the beauty of BEING A HAM :) hint hint. And go for a 5/8 over 5/8. POOF Cheers./
15:18 _"To be fair, we should magnetically stick this to the roof"_ ==> Sorry but no. To be fair, you should have swapped the antennas at the top of the pole. You compared two antennas at very different heights, one at the top of the pole ant the other on the vehicle roof which was, as you said yourself, below the tree line. This was not a remotely fair comparison.
vomKuckucksfelsen Mount the magnetic antenna on a small metallic ground plane and put it at the top of the pole also. Compare both antennas AT THE SAME HEIGHT ABOVE OBSTACLES. *_THAT_* would be a fair comparison, not one at the top of the pole and the other several meters below.
corisco tupi thats true. I´d be very interested to see how a simple Groundplane Antenna made of a couple pieces of wire would perform. www.hamuniverse.com/2metergp.html Just adapt it for the higher freq...
Tuned is better. A Kilometer long antenna is no good for frequencies above HF. 300/frequency=wavelength then... Wavelength/2 for dipole with high angle of elevation of wave (EG go over tall mountains and buildings if other factors allow such as frequency and enhancements caused by sun) Wavelength/4 for dipole for lower angle of elevation to get more distance before first bounce (if conditions allow for a bounce), it's also a more practical length antenna for most applications. Finally take ~5% from the final length to allow for velocity factor since electrons move much faster in a conductor than they do in free space. Other antennas are designed around 7/8th and 5/8th of a full wavelength but these are usually a poor match and if DC loaded they will be quite noisy. Other designs such as a Yagi work better, but are akin to using a mirror behind a candle (a director element), you increase the light (signal) in one direction by reflecting it, and adding lenses to focus the light to a point (directors). A typical Yagi design is built using 1/4 wave elements with a passive or active matching rod or wire. The principles in antenna design is the same no matter how you make an antenna because antennas dont change physics because you stuck a brand label on it.
I'm a 36 yr old Amateur radio Op, been licensed for 25 yrs ( yes @ age 11 ).. Just stumbled on Hak5 on youtube.. re: the ADSB antenna projects. So awesome! If you guys arent Licensed ( i have no idea yet ) do go after it, its easy, and you can build/hack/mod all kinds of things! You have a new subscriber for sure! Have fun!
Just wanted to point out that the height of the ADS-B receiving Antenna does NOT appreciably affect the Range. The following info was copied from a post by member 'ab cd' at the following link.
forum.planefinder.net/threads/ads-b-diy-antenna.23/
In case of Air-to-Ground ADS-B Communications, the Transmitting antenna is on the Aeroplane, which is several thousand feet high. The contribution of height of receiving antenna to the overall range is therefore not appreciable.
The range is combination of ranges of transmitting & Receiving antennas.
Overall Range = Range of Transmitting Antenna + Range of Receiving Antenna
= 1.41 x √h1 + 1.41 x √h2 miles,
where
h1 = height of transmitting antenna in feet.
h2 = height of receiving antenna in feet.
Based on these formula, I have calculated the Range for various heights of Receiving Antenna and Airplane, and have tabulated the results. These results show that increasing height of RECEIVING Antenna from 25 to 200 feet does not appreciably affect the overall range of ADS-B.
I have that same saw and I love it!!! Lenox is awesome for making parts of things not exist anymore
I use the same software you are using ,it works very well.
To get a much a better signal use a TV signal booster. I use a SLx1P Plug in Aerial amplifier booster 20dB ,Without the signal booster i get 5-7 frames/sec
and with the signal booster i get 50- 60 frames/sec ! The SLx1P Plug in Aerial amplifier booster 20dB comes with variable gain and thats using my TV roof aerial.
I waited too long to watch this it sounded boring by just reading the title but after watching I'm kinda geeked about it when I get a little cash I'm thinking about giving it a try myself! Thanks for the great videos
It's not how big it is, it's how you use it...
No it is the array that accounts.
huge antennas are like communism, better in theory than practice
Elevation Elevation Elevation .. Size ? Misleading unless you know something about atennas.
martyn ridley right - hence next week it's fresnel zones, radio horizon and a 4000 foot hike!
Great show - Keep it up, but why didn't you give the little antenna a chance at the top of the fiberglass mast to make the comparison apples to apples?? BTW. I have a commercial aircraft receiver and about a 24" Omni on my roof to participate with the "planefinder" app, and even with just the 24" antenna, I regularly get planes from 200 miles or more. I live near Baltimore, and get planes from Richmond to upstate NY. That being said, as a HAM, I love the DIY aspects of all you've been showing lately!! Thanks for the great shows!
It helps to set your frequency correction (the ppm thing) in ADSBSharp.
Darren you such a lucky Dawg, having such a Gorgeous Co Host and Geeking out together :), Great Show BTW guys, Antenas can be the fun stuff :)
I think adding some ferrite chokes on the USB cable sould enhance the SNR. With this cable I experienced some spurs and many other interferences as the shielding acting like a second antenna.
Nice video!
As you know at 1090MHz the signal is very line of sight. Having a higher antenna increases the range of the SDR over having more gain. I have the same SDR units with that same factory antenna, and that mounted at 20', similar to your collinear, I'm able to pickup planes over 100 miles away from Southern California. A more accurate test would have been putting the collinear at the roof level of the van.
I have all of the supplies to build a collinear, but I've put it off since the factory antenna is actually tuned quite well for the 1090MHz spectrum.
lovin the SDR stuff
If more women were like Shannon, in all aspects depicted on the show, the world would be a better place.
These guys waste so much time, I now watch the videos on 1.5 times speed to make it not boring
radiosification
Do you think that that or ANYTHING will remove the boredom?
What a pain in the butt are these two!
She's so bloody nice I wanna puke
Is Ham radio this low tech in American?
It's on a par with Sesame street.
Geesh you guys ... they are meant to appeal to a different, non-techy audience!
Darren with sharp objects...
OK. Second time I've watched this... I like it. But, each time I ask 'did they really put it in a pvc pipe and tape it to a fiberglass pole.' You should've just taped it to the fiberglass pole. The 1/4 wave on top is not too important on this type of antenna. Each time you double the elements, you get less than a 3dB gain. After too many elements doubling only gets 2 dB,,, and so on. I think your 6 foot was very close to optimal for gain vs. length. I really enjoyed the video and the one where you used the drone.
get a weather balloon and hang a huge antenna from it then get or make a super long USB hub like that one to connect it to the pc - probably wouldn't work but will be fun and look cool
Does Antenna Size Matter? 6 inch Dipole vs 6 Foot Collinear!, Hak5 1607.
Good stuff. You never know when you might have to jerry rig an portable antenna.... lol It did look pretty good! Nice work. :)
You should see some of the antennas I have built.
My biggest is a 464 foot long horizontally polarized dipole for sky wave propagation on 530 KHz.
Then I have my double cross dipole for 137 MHz NOAA APT.
Modified TV dish's to pick up Inmarsat and GOES East HRPT.
Of course I have the 970 MHz and 1090 MHz beacon antennas along with a whole galaxy of wifi antennas on 2.4 and 5 GHz
Also the old CB radio didnt get left out. I have built dipoles and ground planes from everyday around the house items and achieved swr of 1:2 or less
Advertisement finishes at 3:31
if you only striped a quarter wave to a full wave of mantel back over the insulation. and leave the mid section stick out. you have a fully function antenna. Enjoy thinking with it.
Awesome job! Where can I buy the fiberglass pole?
I have read if you set the confidence to 3 you get better results or faster results. i havent been able to test a difference between 4 and 3 since i dont get many planes passing through my area when i have time at night to mess with this.
something wrong with your (6 Foot Collinear) if your only getting 170 miles.. You could use a quarter-wave 1090 MHz dipole (about 2" 3/4 inches tall dipole with 4 ground elements) that could easily reach 200 miles under the trees.
I see you guys use the Avermedia Live Gamer Portable. Great little versatile device!
I want a bloopers reel of cutting the pvc.
Coco antennas are pretty narrow band. You need to use a VNA to confirm if your antenna was built properly
For antennas find a ham operator. They should know someone who loves playing with antennas. Bigger done right should be better. But if you dont do the math or neglect your transmission line and impedances in the equations you can quickly find that off the shelf items ARE better.
Down scale it all put it on the quad copter. N see how high you can get that ;-)
you have some good stuff on HAK5 but you could reduce the time by a third
PS... I think the other versions you mention do give you a stronger signal however, they are more directional than the model you put up. For this app, non-directional is more appropriate.
Was there ever have like a build log for the hak5 van? Cause that thing is sweet af.
That was awesome!!
If you cut the little antenna down to 67mm, you can track to 70 nmi, and about 50 nmi like it is...
Please redo the Test.
This time untick Tuner AGC (15:44) and Pull the GAIN up.
&
Stick the Small Antenna to the top of the pole.
Love U HAK5
at that elevation you should be receiving at least 20-50 planes at maybe 300-500nm far.. your area has so much sky traffic...
Love the f/g mast but it might have some issues with my antennas lol
Putting the antenna inside a pvc pipe will detune it! You could use a red pitaya as an VNA to tune your antenna and then compare it mounted inside and outside a pvc pipe...
Was that software sharpsdr or a widget belonging to gnu radio.? Great show guys
I wish they mounted the dinky little antenna on the ten foot pole.
Really guys you should have tested the small antenna at the same height. Poor little thing had no chance.
Shannon Morse needs a mic compressor.... LOL Love me those Geeky chicks :)
can you help with details of the coax used ? any partiicular thickness gauge or OHM value?
You should try virtual radar server, it has a great map.
I have a 10 element shorted collinear antenna mounted on a wall and i get a range about 240km over the sea and about 140km in land.
Great hack! To minimize impedance mismatches, try using 50 ohm coax instead of 75 ohm coax for the array. This will reduce reflections at the sma to type N interface. This will increase the signal to noise ratio. Maybe you will see more beacons buried in the current noise floor.
The PVC pipe has TP-Link omni printed on it.
Good video. What polarisation did you have the 6 inch antenna at when you were receiving.?
Totally not a fair comparison. One antenna is set up 10 meters above the other one. Helping it clear all the ground obstacles.
Could you tell us where you got your 10m cable poll? I know smaller ones are available at Lowes home improvement but have not see one this long or as sturdy.
One last thought... I think Shannon really wanted to do an adult version of this. You should have let her. Would def increased subs and thumbs. lol
The coax inside the plastic tube isn't just coax it has been cut into precision lengths and rejoined, to form a "collinear antenna". The video doesn't make this fact clear.
I want to work for you. So much to learn!
This is great! I wish you have used virtual radar (it has better map). Also, you could reference those planes with flightradar24 just to determine the radius more accurately.
If you want to go another extra mile, make a balloon or strap SDR dongle to one of your quadcopters with pineapple. Wonder the kind of antenna you'll need in that case..
Thats kool guys,,,what program is that??
Just the tip. (7:30) -Archer
LANA... LANA... LAAAANAAAAAA! ......
DANGERZONE!
I am interested in what you are doing there, not sure what it is I am seeing, but it seems you are able to track planes in your area and know what planes are what... I would be interested to know if this can also be used to track planes who are laying Chemtrails and which airlines it would say is putting them down!! I would appreciate a response.. Thanks..
does height matter? if you were to use the 6inch guy on the top of the pole, would it effect its performance?
+Eli Youmans The higher the antenna is -in general - the better it will perform. If there is a plane that's so far away that it's below the horizon and raising your antenna a little higher brings it above the horizon, then yes.
Hak5 has a hacksaw !!
Try a pre-amp or LNA
surprise that info is not encrypted/secure so that the data couldn't be read.
What's that thing attacking his face?
Both antennas need to be at the same height.
Bangbus!
7:40 close your eyes and listen
SO MUCH THATS WHAT SHE SAID
Height, Height and more Height. Height trumps all other potential improvements in VHF and UHF work.
Never made a blow dart contraption as a child?
fit !
..man these guys do some crazy sh*t. IF *they* were HAMs they could experience field day :). As you've seen and experienced though - what works for you may not work for me and so on and so forth - that's one of the beauty of BEING A HAM :) hint hint. And go for a 5/8 over 5/8. POOF Cheers./
super
So you all know, that was not a dipole (6")!
what is that red and black thing in 16:07
Screen recorder
ow what the name look very nice
Andrew Martin AverMedia live gamer portable
gamerzone.avermedia.com//game_capture/live_gamer_portable
TheGuy cheers
:)
"break out the Haksaw"
3:24 he is good, but it is just funny :)
Dipole?
Shannon saws like a girl....
15:18 _"To be fair, we should magnetically stick this to the roof"_ ==> Sorry but no. To be fair, you should have swapped the antennas at the top of the pole. You compared two antennas at very different heights, one at the top of the pole ant the other on the vehicle roof which was, as you said yourself, below the tree line. This was not a remotely fair comparison.
Not true my friend. The small magnetic antenna works better on the roof of the car because it needs the metall roof as counterpole!
vomKuckucksfelsen Mount the magnetic antenna on a small metallic ground plane and put it at the top of the pole also. Compare both antennas AT THE SAME HEIGHT ABOVE OBSTACLES. *_THAT_* would be a fair comparison, not one at the top of the pole and the other several meters below.
corisco tupi
thats true. I´d be very interested to see how a simple Groundplane Antenna made of a couple pieces of wire would perform.
www.hamuniverse.com/2metergp.html
Just adapt it for the higher freq...
AND the comparison is also unfaire because the magnetic mount antenna has a much longer coax cable...
vomKuckucksfelsen One could actually use the same coax, mount the receiver mid-pole and go down from there with a USB extension.
What about the resistance that the huge antenna creates?
Don't you need some kind of amplifier?
06:51 ??
So it's a Bit-tor Internet!!))
tl;dw bigger is better
Tuned is better. A Kilometer long antenna is no good for frequencies above HF.
300/frequency=wavelength then...
Wavelength/2 for dipole with high angle of elevation of wave (EG go over tall mountains and buildings if other factors allow such as frequency and enhancements caused by sun)
Wavelength/4 for dipole for lower angle of elevation to get more distance before first bounce (if conditions allow for a bounce), it's also a more practical length antenna for most applications.
Finally take ~5% from the final length to allow for velocity factor since electrons move much faster in a conductor than they do in free space.
Other antennas are designed around 7/8th and 5/8th of a full wavelength but these are usually a poor match and if DC loaded they will be quite noisy. Other designs such as a Yagi work better, but are akin to using a mirror behind a candle (a director element), you increase the light (signal) in one direction by reflecting it, and adding lenses to focus the light to a point (directors). A typical Yagi design is built using 1/4 wave elements with a passive or active matching rod or wire.
The principles in antenna design is the same no matter how you make an antenna because antennas dont change physics because you stuck a brand label on it.
dont waste your time, skip til the interessting part: 21:32
+gamerpaddy So helpful. Where would I be with out people like you? /endsarcasm
mamacita
i really like most hak5 videos but your antenna videos boooolow sorry guy but hey just the tip ;-D
20+ minutes of nothing. It's like women comparing purses. Nothing of substance, and nothing to see here folks, move along...