AMEN Fr. J Steele! Those of use who invested in the campus through our donations want to see this church stand for hundreds of years (as was Schuller's intention) and Schuller had such a great comment when the Catholics acquired the campus. He said: "I built the church for Jesus Christ and I know with the Roman Catholics it will be - for Christ - FOREVER"....beautifully said.
Greg Griffin, thanks for posting this. Not everyone is going to be happy with every aspect of the transition. It will always be a place of many conflicting emotions, both for the former members of the Crystal Cathedral and the Catholic members of Christ Cathedral. It is important that we are good to each other across the divides which Christ never intended for his disciples. Thanks again!
I am glad it is still a place of worship but I liked it better the way it looked as the Crystal Cathedral. Always will be a place of worship to God. God Bless us all as Christians. ✝️
I remember seeing glimpses of this church on TV. I must say, this documentary was great, and I don't even go to church, nor am I member of any religion. If this place was in my neighborhood, I'd visit. It has me interested in Catholicism
Those who are critical about the transfer to the catholic church should go and see all the churches around the world who became mosques, hindu temples, warehouses or commercial spaces. Even though Christ will not be worshipped in Protestant tradition, He will still be worshipped. I am not an American but I am saddened by what happened to Dr Schuler's ministry. Saddened that one of the faithful could not continue in its former glorious space. But maybe we all should follow his example of blessing the diocese in their efforts rather than being bitter. If it was God's will for the former ministry to continue there, no power in heaven or earth would have prevented it. He is Lord of His Church in all of its traditions - Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. And in an age where Atheism flourishes, this diocese is full of life. That is something to celebrate.
Are you American or a person familiar with "demographics"? I think not. This had little to do with dogma or denomination and everything to do with white flight from SoCal. coupled with a falling away of the young in all traditions. Schuller developed his ministry in the 1960's and 70's (and 80's when most of the campus was built) when white Protestants were very numerous in that part of the USA. But over time the area changed dramatically with immigration and birth rates. Latino, Filipino, Vietnamese, all mostly R.C. The new good people of God. You'd have a very modest (and very gray) congregation at Mass if they relied just upon white ethnic Catholics. All that said I'm in agreement with the last three sentences of your comment. A good thought.
This rebuild is wonderous indeed. It is a sad thing however that the man who gave,,notice I said GAVE his time and talent during the last years of his life to the designing of every detail of the Hazel Wright Organ, from the tonal design to the detailed placement of all the piston buttons, and toe stud controls, and in the specific design of the console built by the Ruffattis. I witnessed him working in solitude in mountains of drawings in his home office and I assisted when asked by him in the many hours of work/meetings with Robert Schuller and Philip Johnson,the designer of the building in Philips offices in NYC.God gave Schuller two of the greatest talents in the world in their field of the last century to create a masterpiece working together,,and yet no mention of Virgil Fox, or even thanks ,,however his masterpiece though man handled by those who came after remains in essense Virgil Fox's greatest gift he could design to the glory of God and for those who seek Him through the majesty of one of the great instruments on earth .
In the person of Dr. Frederick Swann, long-time Associate of Virgil Fox, the Crystal Cathedral organ continued to be refined, babied, cared for and loved all the way to the end of his tenure at the Cathedral. It would be a true Restoration, however, if the names of Virgil Fox and Frederick Swann both are associated on the console of "Hazel" when she is re-installed prior to the opening of the "new" Christ Cathedral. Perhaps the new Organist/Music Director will be inspired to bring this suggestion before those who are in authority over these properties.
I do know that Fred Swann is working with John Romeri and others in the Diocese on the renovation of the organ. I think he should (re)inaugurate it in 2019 God and health willing.
……sadly,…but appropriately, the Artists are gracefully forgotten……not all, but many people with VF’s very expressive aspirations (seen here on RUclips). VF never saw the completion of the organ. He would’ve LOVED IT.
to take so much of the light out of the room is a mistake. plus how will you clean those quadrafoils hanging from the ceiling? They will cover with dust over time and begin looking dirty and discolored.
Trust me - I have sat in the Crystal Cathedral and ROASTED in the sunlight that comes through the glass even though it is nearly opaque and mirrored. Plus sunlight and heat destroyed the Hazel Wright Organ over time and also made the pitch (correct word?) change during the day based on sunlight shining on the pipes. The quatrefoils are a practical solution but I agree over time they will get dirty and have to be cleaned some way.
I am astonished that the diocese has been able come up with such a workable plan. I couldn't have imagined what to do with that space as a cathedral. It was dreadful for a Cathedral. That glorious monstrosity of an organ. It would seem that that was the only place for the Sanctuary but not with that organ there. Being able to utilize that East-West axis so well is brilliant! Having the alter/ambo in the centre is in many ways not ideal but it looks like really making fine lemonade out of lemons. Being able to use the organ without it playing altar is genius. Making that glorious space appropriate for the Church borders on the miraculous.
+MarshalPoole The buildings WERE beautiful and starting to deteriorate and the organ was heavily damaged by sun, humidity, bugs, birds even. The Catholics are pouring millions into the campus to restore, renovate and renew.
Thank you for the clarification. I am glad to know that things are being repaired and restored to His Glory. I look forward to seeing the transformation. I am not a Catholic, but I hope to see a true, traditional, majestic High Mass to commemorate God's glass house and surrounding campus.
Those who are knowledgable about this kind of damage know that the Orange Catholic Diocese is doing a masterful amount of work and ministry to restore and magnify the dream of Dr. Robert Schuller, Founder. Praises be to GOD.
It was sad when the CC Ministries came to the end that it did on the campus - but I think Schuller himself - in a 2003 quote - was spot on: "Everyone though I had this master plan [for the CC Campus] - well I didn't but God did." When in the bankruptcy Schuller voted to sell the property to the Catholics (at a lower price than Chapman University that would have allowed the congregation to use the church on Sundays but for concerts etc. on weekdays) he told the Catholics: "I built this church for Jesus Christ and I know with the Roman Catholics it will be for Christ FOREVER". I that was not the Holy Spirt at work I don't know what is....
+Be Clear And who are you to insist that every Christian tradition has to be found written in the book that *we Catholics* wrote for the instruction of our catechumens---the beginners in the faith? But just to quash the idea that Catholics aren't Biblical: Rom 6:4 associates baptism with death. Also, Matt 4:16 says 'the people that is sitting in darkness saw a great light, and to those sitting in a region and shadow of death--light arose to them.' Thus, darkness is associated with death and light is associated with Christ. Ex 27:1 says an altar should be square. All of Israel's altars were square, even the altar of incense. Catholics don't insist upon square altars, but when we choose to use that shape, they *are* entirely Biblical. And by the way, altars *always* are places of sacrifice in the OT. They are never just tables for holding eucharistic elements or a Bible on display. Even less are they steps at the front of the church upon which to repent and weep and ask for God's forgiveness. Only Catholic theology has preserved the idea of sacrifice as an essential element of worship. It is entirely lost in the unbiblical innovations of Protestantism.
many basic designs were changed sinced this video. mainly the location of the alter, the choir loft and the baptistry. (i didn't think Catholics went "down" into the water anyway). and i notice Br. William Hoeger isn't there anymore. i'm sure there were many disagreements. personally, I am so disappointed in the choir loft. they decided to use temporary metal choir risers and the baby poop brown of the pews is truly hideous.
ohmusicsweetmusic catholics can go down into the water or have the water poured over them. The water must be moving and the Trinitarian formula invoked.
AMEN Fr. J Steele! Those of use who invested in the campus through our donations want to see this church stand for hundreds of years (as was Schuller's intention) and Schuller had such a great comment when the Catholics acquired the campus. He said: "I built the church for Jesus Christ and I know with the Roman Catholics it will be - for Christ - FOREVER"....beautifully said.
if you are at mass with sincerity about the liturgy you cannot be distracted
Greg Griffin, thanks for posting this. Not everyone is going to be happy with every aspect of the transition. It will always be a place of many conflicting emotions, both for the former members of the Crystal Cathedral and the Catholic members of Christ Cathedral. It is important that we are good to each other across the divides which Christ never intended for his disciples. Thanks again!
Amen!
I am glad it is still a place of worship but I liked it better the way it looked as the Crystal Cathedral. Always will be a place of worship to God.
God Bless us all as Christians. ✝️
I remember seeing glimpses of this church on TV. I must say, this documentary was great, and I don't even go to church, nor am I member of any religion.
If this place was in my neighborhood, I'd visit. It has me interested in Catholicism
How I wish I could present my Brass Band and choir here in this cathedral at once...so exciting to see this church soon
Those who are critical about the transfer to the catholic church should go and see all the churches around the world who became mosques, hindu temples, warehouses or commercial spaces. Even though Christ will not be worshipped in Protestant tradition, He will still be worshipped. I am not an American but I am saddened by what happened to Dr Schuler's ministry. Saddened that one of the faithful could not continue in its former glorious space. But maybe we all should follow his example of blessing the diocese in their efforts rather than being bitter. If it was God's will for the former ministry to continue there, no power in heaven or earth would have prevented it. He is Lord of His Church in all of its traditions - Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. And in an age where Atheism flourishes, this diocese is full of life. That is something to celebrate.
Are you American or a person familiar with "demographics"? I think not. This had little to do with dogma or denomination and everything to do with white flight from SoCal. coupled with a falling away of the young in all traditions. Schuller developed his ministry in the 1960's and 70's (and 80's when most of the campus was built) when white Protestants were very numerous in that part of the USA. But over time the area changed dramatically with immigration and birth rates. Latino, Filipino, Vietnamese, all mostly R.C. The new good people of God. You'd have a very modest (and very gray) congregation at Mass if they relied just upon white ethnic Catholics.
All that said I'm in agreement with the last three sentences of your comment. A good thought.
This rebuild is wonderous indeed. It is a sad thing however that the man who gave,,notice I said GAVE his time and talent during the last years of his life to the designing of every detail of the Hazel Wright Organ, from the tonal design to the detailed placement of all the piston buttons, and toe stud controls, and in the specific design of the console built by the Ruffattis. I witnessed him working in solitude in mountains of drawings in his home office and I assisted when asked by him in the many hours of work/meetings with Robert Schuller and Philip Johnson,the designer of the building in Philips offices in NYC.God gave Schuller two of the greatest talents in the world in their field of the last century to create a masterpiece working together,,and yet no mention of Virgil Fox, or even thanks ,,however his masterpiece though man handled by those who came after remains in essense Virgil Fox's greatest gift he could design to the glory of God and for those who seek Him through the majesty of one of the great instruments on earth .
In the person of Dr. Frederick Swann, long-time Associate of Virgil Fox, the Crystal Cathedral organ continued to be refined, babied, cared for and loved all the way to the end of his tenure at the Cathedral. It would be a true Restoration, however, if the names of Virgil Fox and Frederick Swann both are associated on the console of "Hazel" when she is re-installed prior to the opening of the "new" Christ Cathedral. Perhaps the new Organist/Music Director will be inspired to bring this suggestion before those who are in authority over these properties.
I do know that Fred Swann is working with John Romeri and others in the Diocese on the renovation of the organ. I think he should (re)inaugurate it in 2019 God and health willing.
……sadly,…but appropriately, the Artists are gracefully forgotten……not all, but many people with VF’s very expressive aspirations (seen here on RUclips). VF never saw the completion of the organ. He would’ve LOVED IT.
Can sisters go back to wearing habits please lol
to take so much of the light out of the room is a mistake. plus how will you clean those quadrafoils hanging from the ceiling? They will cover with dust over time and begin looking dirty and discolored.
Trust me - I have sat in the Crystal Cathedral and ROASTED in the sunlight that comes through the glass even though it is nearly opaque and mirrored. Plus sunlight and heat destroyed the Hazel Wright Organ over time and also made the pitch (correct word?) change during the day based on sunlight shining on the pipes. The quatrefoils are a practical solution but I agree over time they will get dirty and have to be cleaned some way.
I am astonished that the diocese has been able come up with such a workable plan. I couldn't have imagined what to do with that space as a cathedral. It was dreadful for a Cathedral. That glorious monstrosity of an organ. It would seem that that was the only place for the Sanctuary but not with that organ there. Being able to utilize that East-West axis so well is brilliant! Having the alter/ambo in the centre is in many ways not ideal but it looks like really making fine lemonade out of lemons. Being able to use the organ without it playing altar is genius. Making that glorious space appropriate for the Church borders on the miraculous.
The Hazel Wright organ? The buildings were already expensive and beautiful. Why tear apart what was already beautiful and high end.
+MarshalPoole The buildings WERE beautiful and starting to deteriorate and the organ was heavily damaged by sun, humidity, bugs, birds even. The Catholics are pouring millions into the campus to restore, renovate and renew.
Thank you for the clarification. I am glad to know that things are being repaired and restored to His Glory. I look forward to seeing the transformation. I am not a Catholic, but I hope to see a true, traditional, majestic High Mass to commemorate God's glass house and surrounding campus.
Those who are knowledgable about this kind of damage know that the Orange Catholic Diocese is doing a masterful amount of work and ministry to restore and magnify the dream of Dr. Robert Schuller, Founder. Praises be to GOD.
It was sad when the CC Ministries came to the end that it did on the campus - but I think Schuller himself - in a 2003 quote - was spot on: "Everyone though I had this master plan [for the CC Campus] - well I didn't but God did." When in the bankruptcy Schuller voted to sell the property to the Catholics (at a lower price than Chapman University that would have allowed the congregation to use the church on Sundays but for concerts etc. on weekdays) he told the Catholics: "I built this church for Jesus Christ and I know with the Roman Catholics it will be for Christ FOREVER". I that was not the Holy Spirt at work I don't know what is....
+Be Clear And who are you to insist that every Christian tradition has to be found written in the book that *we Catholics* wrote for the instruction of our catechumens---the beginners in the faith? But just to quash the idea that Catholics aren't Biblical:
Rom 6:4 associates baptism with death. Also, Matt 4:16 says 'the people that is sitting in darkness saw a great light, and to those sitting in a region and shadow of death--light arose to them.' Thus, darkness is associated with death and light is associated with Christ.
Ex 27:1 says an altar should be square. All of Israel's altars were square, even the altar of incense. Catholics don't insist upon square altars, but when we choose to use that shape, they *are* entirely Biblical.
And by the way, altars *always* are places of sacrifice in the OT. They are never just tables for holding eucharistic elements or a Bible on display. Even less are they steps at the front of the church upon which to repent and weep and ask for God's forgiveness. Only Catholic theology has preserved the idea of sacrifice as an essential element of worship. It is entirely lost in the unbiblical innovations of Protestantism.
They left ONE group of people out though. Maybe TWO!
Huh
Too bad the music drowns out half of the speaking.
Billy Graham would be proud
many basic designs were changed sinced this video. mainly the location of the alter, the choir loft and the baptistry. (i didn't think Catholics went "down" into the water anyway). and i notice Br. William Hoeger isn't there anymore. i'm sure there were many disagreements. personally, I am so disappointed in the choir loft. they decided to use temporary metal choir risers and the baby poop brown of the pews is truly hideous.
ohmusicsweetmusic catholics can go down into the water or have the water poured over them. The water must be moving and the Trinitarian formula invoked.
Inherited for how much !
THE CATHOLIC PEOPLE INHERITED IT.
You have destroyed an iconic building.
I guess that what is Dr.Shuller is invented... to the Catholic to worship, that is sad...😭😭😭😭