Why You Should STOP Using an IDE (Integrated Development Environment)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- In this video I talk about what an IDE is and why its not the best idea to use them. IDE's are a great tool for experiences developers and can definite help improve efficieny and code cleanliness. HOWEVER, if you are a beginner using an IDE can cause more harm than good...
Let me know if you like these kinds of videos in the comments below!
◾◾◾◾◾
💻 Enroll in The Fundamentals of Programming w/ Python
tech-with-tim.....
📸 Instagram: / tech_with_tim
🌎 Website techwithtim.net
📱 Twitter: / techwithtimm
⭐ Discord: / discord
📝 LinkedIn: / tim-rusci. .
📂 GitHub: github.com/tec...
🔊 Podcast: anchor.fm/tech...
💵 One-Time Donations: www.paypal.com....
💰 Patreon: / techwithtim
◾◾◾◾◾◾
⚡ Please leave a LIKE and SUBSCRIBE for more content! ⚡
Tags:
Tech With Tim
IDE
Integrated Development Environment
What is an IDE
Why not to use an IDE
Python Tutorials
Create a Game and have a Chance to Win 1 BTC: repl.it/talk/all
I can't lol, I'm beginner, but I want that bitcoin lol. It's almost 4k$ now, but I own some xrp and LTC
@@billystime368 i want doge
my current issue is (among the fact im a beginner) that ive no idea where/how to start or structure the codes id want to write
I am the beginner you alk about. I want to learn how to READ a programming language. What's.the quickest way?
Its thr third timd today im looking up syntax. I really don't know what it is. What all of this is.
Yeah I hate messing up syntax when I am stuck on a remote island and the natives are forcing me to write code in the sand at spear point
Dude, you gotta write em corectly.
Well you are already dead then since you already messed stuck with stick😂😂
Damn you LMAO
bro I know the feeling!
@Defender ofOasis I remember writing a c++ program for final 😅 exam in uni on a piece of paper (maybe 2 or more ,idk) in the year 2015 or so, this is in a Third world country mind you . Hows that for practical and job market 😂 . If you are not in top school or Ivy League , Its time to evaluate your choices and go with online education approach .
Beginner: Use IDE because it help you learn new things.
Intermediate : Dont use IDE because it is time to have a closer relationship with language .
Advance or working for real : Use IDE again because you want to finish the project on time :)
well said bro
Nicely said!
Nope
(Yes, I know I'm really late at this)
I heavily agree with this. I personally feel like I'm entering the intermediate state, and IDEs have helped me a lot to learn. As a beginner, you don't know all of the methods of an object, so the IDE can show them, as well as help with the syntax.
But now that I've become better, I start to code without an IDE. I tried a test online, and I thought, if I didn't use an IDE, I might have done better. This was because the IDE automatically filled out a lot of stuff for me, so I didn't know why it did specific stuff
So what I mean by this is, it will be too hard for beginners without an IDE, because they don't know all of the important methods. When that and the syntax is learned, not using an IDE is a good idea
And the part about advanced users should be obvious
@peacefulman lian.... DISAGREE ;) You inverted it
Beginner: Don't use IDE because it is time to have a closer relationship with
language .
Intermediate: Use IDE because it help you learn new things.
Advance: Use IDE
basically saying that you shouldn’t use an IDE because you may run into situations where you cannot use an IDE. That sounds like the reason our primary school teachers told us why not to use calculators. But who would still insist on hand calculations in real life?
@JackyBeats yes but you're never going to need to do it the hard way
calculus is the single most useless thing i've ever learned
ok boomer
how old r u
Lucien Ng in my uni we’re not allowed to use calculators :(
"Why use IDEs when you can use binary" Well why use binary when I can just rip out the transistors and circuits from my PC and code manually with my bare hands?
Can you? They are nanometers in size!
You'll break them in a billion ways in the first second, and still never do the simplest operation.
@@y.z.6517 Will use big transistors and make adder circuit, does basic calculations like a boss
@@ambujbhaskar9288 Enjoy your room sized basic calculator that works sometimes through heavy maintenance. Actually, it's better to use an abacus instead.
@@y.z.6517 Lol yes
Who needs an IDE, real programmers do it in binary.
Slavko - I’m old enough to have hand punched cards and paper tape as my “IDE” at my first job!!!
@@portlyoldman Nah, I was born this millennium.
Slavko - I think that was my point 😉
@@portlyoldman k, lol
@@portlyoldman SMASH THOSE ZOOMERS!
You need to code the way that suits you/your work enviroment.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
@Seamus O'Dork like a work environment or something?
@Seamus O'Dork screw that standard, We code to solve problem. We are problem solver. And there are various way to do so
@@ame1783 nope, you code to standards using standard tools, variations introduce conflicts and hassle.
@@cantis we do have that standard, but we make it wider and choose what is suitable based on situation. That is why we do requirements elicitation. Scrums for example. Well unless you still using waterfall approach that lead up to so many failed project. I seen that a lot.
@YUXCAT Calm down big boi.. Don't let he see this lmao
I started learning Python around 6 months ago using Sublime Text... I can say I could understand my own code. I then decided to start using PyCharm.
This IDE taught me soooooo much! The visual cues made me understand a lot of things I had learned by heart... I could see where a function was, what a method was, basically how to deal with any object.
Now I find myself anticipating the IDE's suggestions and visual hints, because the IDE trained me how to write code and grow muscle memory...
IDEs are great!
YES! IDE'S allow beginners to walk so later we can run.
Without them to help start me up, I'd probably just have given up on coding.
Whenever I'm learn a new language, I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to figure out where I went wrong without an IDE to teach me.
After a while, I begin to anticipate where my error was as soon as a warning pops up. Eventually, I don't really depend on the IDE so much. IDE's are good teachers, not bad crutches.
Also, they are helpful when you go between different languages and have to retrain yourself to different conventions. Like the different uses of semicolons and brackets across different languages.
Teenagers are always trying to prove themselves as "look at me I can code on notepad++" and this egocentric views is the only reason all this BS about not using IDE exist today.
Couldn't agree more. I've noticed an insane speedup in learning when I switched to Intellij. Easily accessible documentation, easy compiler / build tools configurations (that save tons of time), informative error messages and helpful suggestions, and not to mention the IDE's bias towards best practices and preference for modern / recent language changes.
I'm so angry at this bullshit anti-IDE narrative that survives solely by regurgitating the exact same arguments. Just use whatever the hell you like to use, but keep that elitist bullshit attitude to yourself. If I want to use emacs to write a shell script and Intellij to write Java it's nobody's goddamn business. Why do such narratives even exist in 2020?! Lol
The great thing about Pycharm is, it not only hints on errors and auto-completes, but also tells me how to write codes in compliance with PEP8 standard. It teaches me to not only write correct codes that can run, but clean elegant codes that are readable and self-explanatory.
Pycharm got my python library using skills to the next level! Using Sublime wasn't the best thing to do! I started writing professional code, leaving empty lines between imports statements and main code, using CamelCase for Classes. I just got better with Pycharm even without paying a dollar!
Einstein once said that you shouldn't memorize things you can look up, developing skills sound more useful to me than memorizing every single function word by word of every library you need...
That's true, but apparently students still need to memorize everything to pass the exams.
Einstein invented google!
So we okay to develop ASP. Net in MS DOS Editor or Notepad from scratch?
It’s like in the computers it’s often tradeoff between memory and speed... if you don’t have big memory you can still do the job, but probably slower... on a big enterprise project codebase, it’s very useful to be able to remember many things
@@svenvet8497 I don't agree with the statement that memory is needed in order to solve a problem. Depends on the job I guess but solving a problem fast requires something else than memory.
Memory is very useful of course but you often need imagination. Hubert Reeves recommended to his students exercises of imagination every day.
I disagree. IntelliJ even has an "education" mode. My first semester in CS, I picked up Java faster than anyone in my class and I'm the only one who used IntelliJ instead of JGrasp. These modern IDEs will not only fix the issue for you, but they actually explain what the issue is and offer different ways to fix it. If you're actually reading these messages and not blindly hitting Alt+Enter all the time, you learn way faster than just letting your programs crash all the time.
I would not use IntelliJ but but I have to agree. I personally use eclipse myself, for the sole reason it's easier to export Java files.
I think that's different though. It's trying to help you understand, without that it just assumes you know that.
It sounds like "Why you shouldn't use keyboard while typing code".
Tim is right
Hahaha I completely agree :D
How do you derive that from the video? Do you lack basic comprehension skills? All he's saying is that you shouldn't SOLELY RELY ON AN IDEA FOR YOUR CODE. Beginners are not gonna learn how to build functions and instantiate objects if their IDE does it for them.. it's like you didn't even watch the video
me use on-screen keyboard
@@alexlu9002 ok npc
IMO syntax is the least important skill in programming, and your ability to quickly look up and understand documentation is one of the most important skills. (Being good at algorithms helps too)
Sure, knowing all the syntax you need makes you faster, but most of the time I can't even remember the syntax of my own functions and objects. Yet if I remember the syntax of the, say, 20 things I use most, then there's no issue.
Also, whenever I switch from something like Python to C or the other way around, I'm going to make mistakes in bracketing if statements or (not) ending in a semicolon. The way I see it, anyone trying to argue that this is a necessarily bad thing hasn't got enough experience with current day programming.
All of this is to say that even though I agree with many of your points, the focus on syntax seems rather pointless to me.
I agree and run into the same thing with syntax. My focus on remembering syntax was for students, that need to hand write code for tests, where as useless as it is you need to remember the syntax.
@@TechWithTim .
True. No need to waste on learning syntax just for a Month. Diagram, Flow of system, documentation, interview session, requirements elicitation and skills in implementing and reusing API. They are very important to learn to pursue jobs.
Understanding and writing documentation is the most valuable skill that you had to have, i agree.
But costantly looking at documentation waste a lot of time. It's handy to remember at least the most used function in your context.
At my university we directly started to learn java with the eclipse IDE. I can agree that it is kinda bad for very inexperienced programmers because it is harder to learn to work with the IDE than learning the actual language. But I wouldn’t say that you shouldn’t use an IDE at the beginning. It’s just better to use a simple one at the beginning, like Notepad++ or also VS Code which is way more easy than Eclipse in my opinion. When you learned the basics of the language and are arble to work on bigger project then using an IDE is important.
"Don't use an IDE if you are an absolute beginner" That should be the title.
that's not click baity enough though
@@chuckmaddox6725 The sad truth
@@raulbisping9880 yh because at least it pretty much tells you the syntax when auticorrecting
Use IDLE. So much better. Got myself into hell when I started using Pycharm. I now know basics of Python. I still prefer IDLE.
@@primeroyal7434 Same; I used IDLE for when I was just starting out. Now I have Pycharm but IDLE is good to start with
I think the faster feedback you get for errors in IDE's makes learning even faster, that along with IntelliSense it makes it easier to explore libraries and gain exposure to what is available.
However if what you are looking for is a deeper understanding of how code runs on a computer, assembly language is the way to go.
If you show up to interview in my shop for a JR dev position and you tell me that you don’t use an IDE I will be very dubious of your perspective if you’re doing c# and not using Visual Studio I simply won’t hire you, period. If I have you write code for an interview I’m going to give you a configured IDE as we use it in the shop. I will expect you to be able to use that, it’s part of the job. I’m not really interested in syntax I want to know how you think, how you write code do you do comments how do you name variables how do you organize your code. The IDE won’t do those for you. If you want to be a professional developer use professional tools.
I would always prefer experience that *includes* experience without IDEs, as that helps you understand the underlying tools and technology. e.g. object files, linking, etc. For example, there has been a few times I've had to write a VS project file by hand and use MSBuild directly.
I am a mid level C# dev and use Jetbrains' Rider IDE over VS. I find it much better and easier to use, probably because I am used to the Jetbrains flavor and keyboard shortcuts. I still have to use VS (unfortunately) for some features that are not available in Rider.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of the video. I haven't listened to it yet but after reading some of the comments I double I will be swayed in my opinion. I will be watching the video later today after work.
@@defeqel6537 My experience is that this is overrated... it's like saying I can fix your car with a manual wrench gives you some insight into how to repairing cars with an air-powered impact wrench doesn't. Is it useful? Maybe, but in the end what I want is a running car, quickly, and a manual wrench won't do that. I had a 'command line' colleague take me off on a silly Linux track using command line ssh stuff (I dislike Linux at the best of times because of its reliance on command line)... once I figured out what he wanted to do I went and found a windows ssh tool, connected to the Linux client and downloaded the files in under 1 minute, his approach had already wasted 15 minutes.
@r4rev2 because the stack and it's primary tools are set by the shop, not by the individual devs. ESPECIALLY by juniors! The theory behind this is that we set the stack and we work at it, as a team, we get good at it, as a team, we share knowledge and build skills, that way the individual tools that devs use don't become a problem (or introduce problems), and I've seen both of those happen. Now, I'm speaking of a centralized, working in the same physical office 9-5 kind of space. If you're distributed and the only thing you are really connecting on is source-code, then sure, all that matters is checked-in code.
@@ThomasLe Your experience, of having to return to Visual Studio for some things is why using something else for C# dev seems unnecessary, they are really quite closely tied together. Perhaps it would be better if they weren't, but they are. We've recently begun using Python in our shop and are just using VS Code. Python is much less tied to IDE.
You are a great RUclips resource for many programmers. Unfortunately, in this case, I do not agree with you on this. 🙂
Remember, if you can do the thing the hard way, you'll be' alias fine
@@lucagreggio2278 yes, agreeee. That's why i never touch ide or even tab key for autocopletion.
The best learn scenario is Linux + vim for c++/c languages
@@585ghz why is linux such a big deal? I don't understand the reason a lot of programmers use linux. Is it just more efficient or something?
He has summoned the inner demon. This is what the loop loop loop loop loop meme looks like irl
With all being said. Let me open my Intellij.
I find that using an IDE makes it so much easier to learn a programming language, especially since most of them have a tool box and practically guide you on developing a code.
Lol, thanks.
Yes I agree
i totally agree
.....dont learn the easy way, learn the hard way
It even taught me by recommending patterns that are recommended by community.
If Tony Stark used an IDE all the time, he wouldn't be able to escape from that cave
@@dhanush21feb daaaaamn, I agree with you , Tony Stark is very intelligent person, he is savior of USA
@@dhanush21feb r/woosh
@@dhanush21feb Love how you first @ him then put his name in parenthesis. I hope you're aware Stark Industries is a fictional company.
@@dhanush21feb You, my friend, is taking the youtube comment section way too serious.
@@dhanush21feb Excuse me for not being English. Excuse me for not having English as my mother tongue. Excuse me for prioritizing mathematics and physics over English in school.
PS: You're a funny guy.
I am 34 years old, got my associates and bachelors degree at 2 different colleges. One is a University. My field is Electrical Engineering and Electrical Engineering Technology. I used the IDE for Python as a beginner and had no problems recognizing the proper syntax. Not everyone has trouble beginning programming with IDE's.
I disagree 100000%. The fact that you can disregard syntax as a beginner is great, precisely so you can concentrate on understanding the flow of control, data structures, classes and so on and so forth. No developer with even a little bit of experience will tell you that coding is about syntax, because it's definitely not.
And then the fact that the code compiles doesn't mean it's bug free. 99% of the time the problem is not a syntax error, but rather one that deals with the very logic of the algorithm you've written.
I personally started out on Python + Sublime Text. Then I did C# for my first job (. Net) and I just wished somebody had shown me Visual Studio back when I was starting out.
@Eric Y Yes of course, if you need to handwrite code then using anything more advanced than notepad is risky. The fact is that nobody should ever be required to handwrite code.
@@gigik64 you clearly don't get the difference between coding and computer/data science
@@acidtears Maybe you can illuminate us? He's point is totally correct. As a begginer you should not care about a specific language or syntax, if you want to write down an algorithm/problem you can do it with invented language by you, or just as text, that is exactly coding, then you just need to translate it to the language of your choice. As a begginer you should only care about the process of solving problems, the language/syntax really doesn't matter. BTW coding and computer/data science is the sayme, coding is a subset of software engineering or computer science, name it as you want.
@xOr not sure if i understand you, sorry bro.. i dont see whats wrong with my point.
@xOr If you know how to program, you should be able to pick Up quickly Game dev or even AI, AI is just statistics, AI is just a fancy word but in reality its simpler. Theres a lot pf People like you , trying to make things look harder as they are to feed their ego, but computer science / programming isnt any harder than other stuff, It just take time to learn.
1. I disagree. I've learned Java in notepad and I didn't remember code syntax details on exam. I couldn't remember syntax when wrote my code in notepad either. I learned more with IDE. To study you need top computer to be able to handle even heaviest IDE.
2. Syntax is not so important to remember especially when IDE corrects you or gives you suggestions. Many programming languages come and pass away: for example BASIC, LOGO, Pascal, etc. What's the point of learning syntax especially when your IDE is going to help you with it?
3. Algorithmic thinking and problem solving skills are the most important in programming, not language syntax. Your ability to use what programming language gives you is important, not syntax details especially when IDE is going to help you. What if programming language you use is going to be replaced by other programming language? All your effort in learning syntax is going to be wasted. And what then? When you learn new language and you have 10 years of programming experience? Are you going to program in new language using notepad and go through all of pains or you gonna use dedicated IDE and learn new language with IDE? I would go with IDE to make my work go faster and easier. Even in C++ you have new things comming in and new syntax. In java you have lambda expressions but in the past Java didn't have lambdas.
4. Not very, very mature programming languages are not worth learning their syntax because they may die any time. Even Java which is quite mature slowly looses on its popularity.
5. Schools that do not teach how to use IDE are making mistake. Employee who knows the tools and various systems is more valuable than the one who doesn't know them.
i don't know why.....but Subscribed
The very mature languages (C, C++ and Java) aren't going anywhere. They are important for serious systems programming
The best thing for beginners is to drop IDEs, write their code, compile it to assembly, and then compile that into machine binary.
The best for beginners is write on byte codes😎👍
When I started learning Python 🐍 ...
⭐ First I started with IDLE (Integrated Development & Learning Environment) that comes with Python then
⭐ I moved to Sublime Text 3 and then
⭐ I finally started to use PyCharm.
Jupyter notebook is love😻
What is IDLE ?
Integrated Development and Learning Environment
Atom😻
SeaweedWorker yep
I was made to write out my code on paper , before Ever touching the computer
-pseudo code first
-work out all the algorithms and all thinking about doing what your doing
-hand write your code on paper with no abstraction , stucts functions, files ECT.
- type the code on the computer and run it
- re write it with functions and structs if neded.
make sure everything works.
I'm not even kidding. my uncle was who did this to me...... He taught me , but I appreciate it in the long run , it taught me displine
Someone that is able to use intelij for example, knowing to use shortcuts etc has an advantage at his workflow over someone with same coding expirience that doesn't. It's an extra skill.
So true
I started programming in BASIC (Commodore PET BASIC) on a Commodore PET computer. The only way to interact with the computer including programming was via what today is called a read-eval-print-loop (REPL). Only if you preceded the statement with a line number could you enter multiple statements before running the program. To this day, I can still write BASIC by hand on paper with greater than 95% correct syntax. These days I continue to use vim for writing and programming; sometimes just cat > filename.
I think if you are learning a new language then initially start using an IDE. It helps you to maintain the recommended coding style for that language. Also you will get to know a lot about different data types and data structures of that language by experimenting with the prompt menu. Once you are a bit familiar and confident to code in that language use basic notepad. In the end you won’t get an IDE in job interviews.
When debug and try to find the location of issues , it's helpful for me to open an IDE.
When add/modify code, it usually makes my thinking clearer in VIM.
I use PyCharm but shut off almost every auto-correct, auto-complete, and underline. It took at least a month of tweaking until I was (almost) satisfied. Aside from the fact that I thought it would hinder my learning, I found it all incredibly annoying. It is like when you are typing something, like a password, into a field on a website and the site tells you that you are wrong before you've even finished typing. Drives me crazy. I actually thought this would be something I'd be criticized for doing by more experienced devs until I saw your video. Thanks for confirming that I'm doing the right thing.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who gets irrationally annoyed when it starts nagging before I've even finished typing.
In Italy we have different types of high schools and I went to a "informatics" high school.
We started with pseudo-peogramming on paper, then C & C++ (with different professors) at low level (pointers, memory allocation and deallocation etc..) and also some assembly.
We used an Older version of Geany (sort of an IDE for Debian distributions) that essentially had only colors for different parts of the code (it didn't even help with indentation).
At first I couldn't understand why they would make us use something so simple without help, but then I realized that since I didn't have the help of the IDE if I didn't want to write for hours I had to understand and write simpler and more efficient code so even if large projects are nearly impossible with an IDE starting without one has its benefits.
IDE or not, people should not be introduced to coding with a very far from the hardware language such as Python or JS. C is probably the best bet, being much simpler than C++. It's tougher to teach someone what high level languages do under the hood if they use them first.
@@coopergates9680 yeah but the problem is that people always want to use the full potential of the language, you don't have to.
C++ is perfect because you can do *everything* you could do with C and when you are ready you can introduce OOP and more advanced stuff without changing language or environment
@@huh5950 Well, even though the IDE I'm using is 12 years old (Visual C++ 2008), it's just a parameter in the UI. "Compile as C code" or "Compile as C++ code"
The thing is, people getting into C++, even without OOP, don't code it using C standards, e.g. cout instead of printf, references (&) instead of pointers, etc.
In other words, you could learn all about C standards through coding in C++, but typical exercises in C++ that could use C methods don't.
@@coopergates9680 yeah, the thing works only if you are disciplined enough to stick to the C sintax but if you have to do that it may be easier to just use C, that way you avoid doing wrong things just because the C++ sintax allows it and it doesn't give an error at compile time..
At the end of the day C is still better to start, I learned C and C++ at the same time with different professors (C to learn the basics and the logic behind the sintax and C++ to improve the programming skills without having to much limitations because of the rigorous sintax), if you get the base logic then it's a lot easier to go up in the levels of abstraction and you understand why certain things were designed in a certain way and why some things give errors, just imagine trying to explain a segmentation error to someone who doesn't have even a basic idea of memory and pointers! 😂
Didn't even suggest vim 0/10
emacs is better. Oh right no OS as thats IDE on steroids...
If you're old enough to use VI, EMACS or VIM then you're old enough to use an IDE.
@@christopherguy1217okay, imma just M-: (cold-water(burnt-area)) real fast before grumbling that there are new and young Vim and Emacs users joining ranks, still
"Why You Should STOP Using an IDE as a Beginner*"
Fixed that clickbait title.
Wanna hear a joke?
Modern-day UniVersities.
LOL!
c'mon, give them some slack
Swamp Fox we have to write code on paper in uni :(
Wanna hear an even better joke?
Read more
@@dee23gaming Nice one
That's very true. I started learning "the hard way", using just a text editor and it made me very focused on syntax, indentation, typos and related common mistakes. When I switched to Pycharm I felt really happy about having so many functionalities that makes my life easier, but I'm sure that my previous experience made me more aware, adaptable and efficient.
All I'm hearing is more reasons to keep using Neovim
I thought the only reason you wouldn't stop using it was because you didn't know how to exit.
In all seriousness though I love vim/neovim. I haven't even set up any form of auto complete and it still has a much smoother flow than anything else I've used. Once you're used to the several dozen key sequences, it's painful to go back to the arm exercise of using arrow keys, clicking stuff, and that's all your options for traversing the document. And now that I'm getting into vimscript, there's no way I'll ever use anything else (until I get really old and decide to use nano).
@henry stevens same, I keep forgetting most people aren't though
I guess these comments are mostly in response to the video title, but it seems like most of the points made here are reasonable. IDEs are more than necessary once you're writing web apps or other complex software, but for me, writing code in Vim during my early days really helped me see those less apparent things in my code such as unnecessary line breaks, spaces, and tabs. Not only that, but having skills in a terminal-based text editor have really helped out managing my web servers and if I had started in an IDE, I wouldn't have had that skill. I guess in summary... Just change the title of the video and this all makes sense.
I'm 100% self-taught, no formal higher education and my language of choice are C/C++. Over the years I have also learned some assembly and now I'm starting to work with Python. As for my learning experience, I've always used an IDE Visual Studio since 2003 for C/C++ and even a little bit of C#. I was at the mercy of learning the syntax of the language, the compiler, the linker, the debugger and over time all of the different types of data structures and algorithms. I learned to use various libraries and APIs. My field of interest in programming 3D Graphics Engines or 3D Game Engines and I have been working with Direct X and OpenGL and I'm now starting to learn Vulkan. Due to my own experience and my knowledge of the language, there are some points I can agree too... Since I've been accustomed to the Windows platforms I've always used the Visual Studio compiler. If I ever started to work on a Linux machine where I didn't have Visual Studio's IDE, I would have to learn how to use either GCC or Clang and each compiler treats the C/C++ language very different. There are different syntax rules for similar concepts within C++ for the various different compilers... So it would almost be like starting all over so to speak even though I know most of the core parts of the language. Regardless of that, I still think in other ways it can be beneficial because it does teach you how to use a Developmental Tool that has 1000s of features, settings, and knobs to turn... If you can master Visual Studio's IDE as a beginner, then from there it's just a matter of learning which language. With an IDE such as Visual Studio and depending on which components you have installed, you can use it with many languages C/C++, C#, Java, Visual Basic, F#, Python, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and much more... So at this point, your workflow would follow a similar path between different languages and projects, the only difference being is knowing the Compilers, Linkers, and Debuggers for said languages, and knowing the Interpreter for other languages... In my honest opinion, it is a tradeoff and I also think it depends on the person too! For some people it may be a bad thing for reasons you have mentioned and for others it may not affect them like that and it would be a good thing for them. It comes down to the individual's way of learning and what works best for them.
I agree as far as learning the language for sure. But once you’re familiar with the language, moving to a IDE is a good idea. That way you can focus more on the problem solving aspect instead of getting bogged down in trying to remember syntax.
Even then, syntax between languages that are commonly used aren’t incredibly different. So after you learn and get a handle on syntax in one language, learning the nuances of another language isn’t too difficult.
This depends on each language actually.
IDE helped me a lot to adapt to new framework or library on NET.
For scripting language where you can REPL all the time to tune the result, a code editor is enough tho.
Even Ruby has feature to list all available function with an object in its IRB.
So don’t be shy to use IDE, but pick the right one for you.
Every beginner should use an IDE. Don't listen to people telling you different. People who say that don't remember their struggle as a beginner and it is easy for them so say "it will get you closer to a language". In reality an IDE will get you closer to a language 100%. Just think about all the methods that pop up which you then can play around with and learn really easily and fast. You would need 100s of Tutorials for some simple stuff which would make you waste alot of time.. Just use an IDE and don't listen to these people if you are a beginner. I still remember my struggle and i can tell you that using a texteditor instead of an IDE will make you lose motivation REAL QUICK...
Fair point, back to atom I go.
xD
I am a beginner at learning C language what should i use instead of IDE?
@@vijendersingh5941 I think notepad++ is pretty good, vscode is more fancy but I've had problems with #include there. I'd recommend using Code::Blocks as a begginer though, not too handholding and simple to use.
@@vijendersingh5941 It also depends on which compiler you want to use, your host and the target system. Encoding is not always your friend when the editor does UTF-8 with BOM and the compiler expects ANSI ...
Install midnight-commander under each Unix system and use mcedit. It works in the shell and has syntax highlighting. And you can even use it on a headless device like a router, over ssh.
Under Window$ PsPad has one of the best free Code-Explorer already integrated.
And also have a look at:
www.learn-c.org/
@@vijendersingh5941 I'm also learning C!
Why did you decide to learn C? I'm curious!
I barely use IDEs (mostly because their sheer amount of features are so much, that I am discouraged to learn them causing me a lot of pain while using them).
But this helped me at my current job because I literally can't use a proper IDE (because embedded system; the only thing it can do is putting the program on the device, that's it). Yes, it is painful, especially because I don't even have syntax highlighting...
I started in IDLE, and think its a good idea. (Technically I started in arduino). IDLE is very minimal, but has the advantage of an easy access terminal
I do believe in the same approach. When you use the IDE, its also triggering your memory and giving you suggestions on how its done correctly.
I definitely agree with this. When I started programming in QBasic everything was inside of the IDE. At the time this was good because this was MS-DOS and there was no switching Windows.
But later I was learning C and using the IDE Dev-C++ on Windows. When I later started trying to start adding other libraries, I had no idea how they were compiled and linked. To learn the skills I have today, I started programming on Ubuntu Linux and had to learn to compile from the command line with gcc. As long as I had a comment with the compiling command in my source file I could copy and paste, it didn't matter which text editor I wrote the code in.
Also, every modern IDE I try to use crashes with no explanation. The worst is visual studio. This isn't like the old DOS days where IDEs just worked.
My favorite IDE for C programming was actually Borland Turbo C that ran only in DOS. Someday I might try it in DOSBOX just for fun.
Thank you for this important message! I would add another reason: absolute beginners tend to confuse the IDE with the language itself. Plus they also often switch systems: schooling device and personal. Or you have to guide them through the installation. Adding an IDE increases the chances of messups.
It is one of the best advice to beginners, I had used IDE s and I got lost in even syntaxes when it come to writing code in text editors, you wanna to learn, learn from your mistakes, when you write code from IDE s It is just like writing one code with another person who will correct you without showing you how you get wrong.
Microsoft Word is my favorite IDE
Another reason: compiling. The IDE compiles everything for you, but 90% of my classmates don't know how to compile code in the terminal or even use the terminal at all.
Edit: Wow, I was agreeing with you on all of your points. Then I go to the comment section and find out everyone is disagreeing lmao.
Don't worry they're just either mad at the clickbait title or plain stupid. Of course you have to not use IDE when you start learning programming to actually understand what's happening, and then move onto the IDE's because they do stuff you've *_learned_* a lot easier.
Who's gonna tell bro he's wrong on this one? You just making life harder for yourself bud, its like saying I keep a primitive bow and arrow for protection because with modern wepons the factories might go down and i'll have no ammo 😂, it don't make sense lol
I started recently programming with literally no experience beforehand in my university and I never ran into a problem while using an IDE, which was the first thing they taught us how to do. Any code I had to write in hand, I wrote without any problems. I do agree in a couple of your other points
I can say only one thing: hahah😂😂😂
It sounds like, if u want to cut the tree, don't use chain saw, use hand saw.
its not about cutting down the tree. its about understanding the tricks behind cutting a tree down so you can tell how it will fall
I was starting to learn programming without any technical background and with a minimum understanding of what programming is!
I started with C, using code blocks IDE, develop a small app for a friend then stop for several years. Recently, I resume programming activity with python, and without an IDE like PyCharm I don`t know if I was able to move to OOP. I was starting to use the debugger and really understand the mistakes that I do or the misconception that I have from the 'C' language.
In my opinion, for a complete beginner, an IDE like PyCharm is great. After you start to understand the basics, maybe it`s a good idea to move to a simple text editor and really walkthrough through the code and force you to remember and understand everything (syntax/rules) that you write.
Of course, I`m still a beginner, but with more understanding and I`m in the position where I know what I want from the code, but I have difficulties remembering the syntax or the correct steps and I have to go back to parts of code and look again :)))
Obviously, it`s a tradeoff when using an IDE like PyCharm...the learning curve it`s faster, but (I think !!!) the productivity it`s slower...at least for me
It's funny, when I first learned c++ back in high school circa 2001, I thought the IDE was the compiler. But I'm pretty sure thing that the only thing that IDE's could do back then was syntax highlighting and compile.
Just started learning Python, I don't let Pycharm complete anything for me, the highest is to let it show me other ways to write my code, other than that I code myself. Went from not knowing how to type, to typing without looking at the keyboard to writing beginner strings, variables and expressions.
If you are a beginner, Sublime Text is the way to go.
btw if you’re a person learning python, then I recommend you to use this ide called thonny, I learnt python using it and it’s so good for beginners
It's a two way street, I started off with command line compilers, until I introduced our school to "Borland's Turbo C", it wasn't long before others started using it as well. That was back in the day when we were using 386's, and 486's, windows didn't even exist, just MS-DOS. I see what your saying, about learning how to do it the traditional way, but at the same time, you can forget everything you've learned, just as if you never knew it to begin with. Myself, two years at Interactive Learning Center, the course was "Business Programming", and included a refresher course in DOS, BASIC, Pascal, C++, and COBOL. From then until now, I was like 19 or so, now I'm almost 50, I see a war going on, and we're losing that war, guys like you and me both, because THEY want to control the knowledge, and who has access to what. Think about it... Back then Turbo C 5.0 had everything you needed for learning and business applications, ...fast forward to 2020, you want to learn anything outside of the "Universities", ...it's a real struggle finding what you need, and just as time consuming getting it all to work. You need a stupid 3rd Party something to get anything work.
Let me tell you how I spent the last two days, perhaps you can relate...
1) Search RUclips for and Google for best free compilers compatible with Windows 7 64-bit.
2) Choose between a myriad of Compiler / IDE combinations. I chose MinGW64 with Codeblocks.
3) Spend nearly 3 to 4 hours scrolling through outdated "How to install" video's from India.
4) Conflicting instructions concerning the Environment System "Path" variable vs. the User "Path" variable, which didn't exist.
5) Once installed, discovered MinGW doesn't ship with graphics libraries, so couple more hours searching 3rd Party libraries.
6) Back to the internet "How to install SDL2 for MinGW", then the controversy between placing the dll's in the Sys folder, or prj folder
7) "If you see these errors" you installed the wrong version of MinGW, so now I have to download the 32-Bit version of MinGW
8) Spend another hour or so trying to figure out how to get "contextual help" for text at cursor position. Led me to CHM "help" files, and a video on how they are used for the delivery of malicious virus'.
...back to square 1, and all I wanted to do was draw a 3D box on the screen and manipulate it's position on screen using WASD keys. I had this ideal, that I could simulate First Person Mode, whereas if I press the W key, the box would move to the LEFT, giving the illusion the player was moving to the RIGHT of the 3D object.
What is this video... "ohh I hate when im learning something new and get help ohh no"
I understand your point. But as an DIY trained Programmer I'm really glad I had an IDE to support me, to tell me why my code isn't running or just to see, what functions an Element has.
Best tipp for usind an IDE if you are new: Don't use autocorrect. Seriously, that helps a lot! You can use it to see what's possible. But always write that stuff yourself => That way you'll remember it!
Oh, and the other thing: I'm running Eclipse on a Intel Core m3 Base Model Processor if I'm on the go. Startup Time isn't great, but coding itself runns like a charm. That's why I allow me to so say, that Eclipse really runs almost everywhere.
So, is it okay to use VS Code for python as a beginner?
It has interesting tools, but i think IDE's are suitable for compilable languages, like c++
And + hinting and other things
If you're a beginner, for goodness sake use an IDE. Most productive learning comes from exploratory coding (which is also why REPL's are great such as iPython), IDE's hint to you what is possible and you can actually spend your time coding instead of checking documentation every 10 mins. Oh and using an IDE is a lesson in itself, one that you will eventually have to learn, so, by all means, go for the fanciest IDE you can find. I recommend JetBrains for Java, JavaScript, Python, and web languages, but Visual Studio (Not Visual Code) for C++ and C#.
i never knew how much faster i could code without an ide,untill i started with vim a simple text editor
Lol calling vim a "simple" text editor is an overstatement. Vim is very hard to use for new users.
Vim is awesome
Esben Olsen i am in the moment learning C
I agree with this for a beginner. I am a senior software engineer. I interviewed someone once that couldn't write a for loop in Java. He kept trying to use the IDE shortcut in the online resources we were using to evaluate his code. He didn't get the job.
then there's me... literally using notepad for python
Wut
Why do you go through that
@@oltb3415 because its light and good
@@ProjectRizaRiza The only way it can get less good is if you typed the bytes in a hex editor ...
While Windows Notepad is probably too simple, I think Notepad++ or IDLE are great for beginners
This is a hard one for me, as someone who is still in college and learning I'll offer my two cents on this video and topic. I have personally never had any of my lecturers say that an IDE would hinder your ability to learn a language properly. I don't think that syntax is something you should get too hung up on, I feel like that's something you naturally learn as you develop in a language more. I think what really hinders some people learning to code is not reading the information in their IDE properly. It could be error messages, method definitions, import selections and so on. That is in my eyes what leads to what you're describing in this video and I believe the point you were actually trying to make.
3 words : Vim Is Great
4 words:
But Emacs is better
Vim is best IDE
So true with what you are saying.
About a week into my process of learning html/css/js using VS Code I started to think to myself - "self. Creating a new html file and just typing '!' and having the main HTML file items dropped in or using '.' and '#' to populate div tags with classes, id, etc. is going to cripple me. I figured that out when I went to write a little code on my white board and didn't even know how to start the html file. Sure, if it was on my screen in front of my face I could tell you what each thing meant and what was going on but to pull it out of my head....nope. Since I never had to enter it into to the IDE as emmit has so many built in snippets and helpers....
Definitely save yourself by not using an IDE until you have several hundred hours of coding behind you.
3:40 Ironically, I coded in an IDE in 1990.
Borland Turbo Pascal in my high school computer math class (they didn’t have computer science yet). On an old Tandy MS-DOS machine.
That being said... if you were to release an IDE in today's world with the feature set of Borland Turbo Pascal... but like gave it a different name and colour scheme... it would immediately be blasted as "a glorified text editor" and downvoted so badly it is nuts
I guess part of this has to do with "what counts as an IDE" having also changed over the years as well
@@NimhLabs
Sure, IDEs did start out as basically glorified text editors. I'm pretty sure that vim has far more features than Borland Turbo Pascal did (other than the built-in compiler), and nobody would call it an IDE today.
@@RamLaska yes... and that was kind of my point
I mean... I'm fairly certain this video is talking about IDEs today, and not IDEs from the past that Vim outpowers by being chad as frick
he's just telling us that not using an ide helps you to familiarize the syntax so that you wouldn't be too dependent on the IDE's auto correction. And even if you do depend on the IDE's auto correction, you would understand why there was an error, not just fixing the line of code for the sake of not having a red mark under it.
Yeah no, I'm not Tony Stark, I'll stick with IDE, maybe challenge myself on later life idk
Plot Twist: Why universities should STOP using hand written code tests.
The only reason you mentioned I agree with is that for simple things IDEs are overkill, but for the rest: I think that in programming courses like in universities the focus should be on code quality and clean structures as soon as possible instead of focusing on pure syntax or barely used language and standard library details, since actually the computer can care about while you type it and make suggestions. I guess that's what might be also more important for job interviews (that's at least what I would expect from an applicant).
Like the C++ I learned and used in universtiy (without any IDE) would fail probably any code review and imho it's very important to teach that there are tools that help you creating quality code which is more likely to happen right from the beginning if you are aware and familiar of tools that help you to extract methods and other refactorings in general.
programming doesn't necessary require you to Master the syntax and it demand that how you make a problem solving algorithm for that problem. IDE doesn't tell that son.
so don't make programming difficult for beginners. I hope you got that don't make trash videos.
This is sound advice. I have nearly 20 years experience as a developer , whenever I learn a new language I use a text editor and command line. Aside from learning the syntax this helps you understand how various components such as your source files, config files, package manager, compiler and linker are related.
Hey tim can you make a game that a car with 2d and realistic pyshics.And can you explain how steering works.I think that will pretty helpful for everyone.
Ya that would be cool!
Tech With Tim Thanks
Cool
Using pycharm was the best thing I did while learning python. Fast forward to 3 years.. I am still loving this IDE. For web developers, vs code might be the way to go but for a language like python or java, jetbrains is the way to go
"stop using an IDE"
Me: _you are using the PyCharm editor for making projects_
Because he's already fluent with the syntax! He mentioned beginners and students.
I hate messing up with syntax but the problem with most beginners is not whether they start with IDEs or textbox, most beginners are just super impatient with their ability to code and forget the test frequently while coding their project.
ppl who use microsoft word🗿
What's with so many dislikes?! This dude just has his own humble opinion! You don't have to live someone's opinion!
Our teacher also says same
I completely agree with you
If you use a program like C you don't need to use IDE as a beginner, but for all the other object oriented programs such as C++,Java,C# ... you need an IDE to remember the parameters of functions,structures,macros etc... let alone the APIs just these OOP languages have tons of classes ,for example Java includes more than 4000 classes and each class has its own methods along with some specific variables that you need to pass to methods ...Without using an IDE coding would be even much harder. I think OOP prevents people from enjoying most of the things.This is the reason why I most like C language despite of its
intimidating syntax.
On the other hand ,If you don't use IDE you learn much about using resources,compiling, xml, your operating system etc ... I think those are very essential to become a good programmer .
I wish people would stop using IDE, my missing semicolon joke would become funny again😃
I think if you start off without an IDE you’ll end up becoming much more familiar with command line tools which can be very useful down the line
Yeah instead of clicking run like a braindead donkey, you interact with the shell a bit more. Feels more 5Head
Where my Vim gang at?
Aye
Your 3rd reason hit home for me, I’m using a 10 year old laptop, that runs windows 10 well but every time when I open Visual Studio, my laptop slows down significantly. I usually use VIM, or if I really have to, visual studio code.
*Laughs in (Neo)VIm*
At first, I was wondering what possible reason you could state, but it does make sense that an IDE may hinder your learning. When I first learned Python, my class used Atom the text editor. We'd have to manually run our programs via the command line. Then my professor randomly introduced us to JetBrains PyCharm, and it was so much easier. It does make sense to me to learn the hard way first. After you learn everything, then you can be amazed at what an IDE can do for you, but at least you know you know what you need to know in case you're ever in a situation where you don't have an IDE available.
I've been using Ide's for the last 25 yeasr , no regrets whatsoever. Never , ever , have I coded in notepad or vi.
What's will be the next retro fashion? Using punch cards to code?
The fact that you're comparing notepad and vi (have any of you idiots heard of vim or neovim by the way?) tells me all I need to know.
@@david52875 Neo vim allows for in place debugging? Profiling? Configurable sineppets? Code completion? dead code detection?
... if the answer isn't yes to all of the above, I don't see the need to test it.
@@adelatorremothelet The answer is yes to all of them with plugins
But you do not understand the concept of modularity, so you should do the world a favor and stop writing code.
Here's an idea:
When you want to edit text, use a text editor.
When you want to debug, use a debugger.
Your text editor does not have to be a debugger, you're allowed to use more than one program.
I know, real fucking crazy idea.
You are just bluffing. Yes , there are plugins , but not , by far enough to even cover the basic functionality of an ide like VS.
Just elaborating on why what he says is pretty good advice. What everyone is pointing out is that there won't ever be a time where you won't use an IDE as a development tool. That is true, but think of it as doing math. Using a calculator from the beginning hinders your ability to learn the concepts thoroughly or the process behind the calculation. If you stop using an IDE, you get a better understanding of the language. This is helpful for security analysts and other deep language jobs
“This video is sponsored by kite”
The point here is that don’t use an IDE as a beginner. But people don’t seem to understand that! Good you made this video. Also i use Sublime text to code. And practiced Java on Notepad. Trust me I did. Call me a psychopath but that improved my skills
Thank you!!!! I feel like a lot of people just read the title and don’t listen to the point..
That is one of the reasons I only use atom
I use Vim
I kinda disagree. I started learning c++ and C using IDE, (visual studio and eclipse). Later on, I switched to a school that did not use IDE to teach, I was doing significantly better than the students in that school. I think IDE will help you to ignore the tedious part of learning how to code, and you learn the logic quickly through it, and eventually, you just remember the syntax by typing out the same thing or making the same mistake over and over again.
4:16 lol I still haven't found a computer where Visual Studio runs smoothly
Yeah I agree totally. I'm an intermediate Pythonista and I started using IDEs. I didn't like how it kept trying to help me all the time when I was trying to learn from trial & error, so if you're really new then I recommend using no IDE first.
Great advice for the beginner, I have always thought and said that and I have only been learning code since November 2018, I never use an IDE.
Are you from future
@@nirmalkotiyal4323 lol my error.
Yeah man you are right. I know when I first get started using pycharm, it took few days to figure out how to configure it along with learning python at the very beginning stage. And now I'm struggling in setting up visual studio 2019 for some c/c++ programming.
I have few points to put forward.
1) Definitely get used to whatever IDE you prefer, but after knowing how it works don't use it for practicing. (IDE's are for bigger projects not for printing hello world)
2) Use notepad as editor for practicing and run code using cmd (you have to declare the path of compiler or interpretor in the environment variables to use cmd)
*Laughs in Visual Studio Enterprise*
Laughs in the entire JetBrains Suite with ReSharper
@@knobpersonal2005 student license
The title should probably be changed to don't use one when first learning a given language, which I tend to agree with. The only part where I feel like it depends on the learner is where an IDE hints at options when it comes to methods, functions, vars, etc. Sometimes when first learning a language, it's nice to have that to organically get a feel for what options one has out of the box. At the same time, there could be a trade-off to memorization depending on what works best for the person.
Once comfortable in a language though a complimentary IDE can be helpful. The major advantage to an IDE is the great debugging functionality that's often baked in. That can speed up a deeper understanding when learning. The only problem there is, many people learn the debugging last, but it shouldn't be an afterthought. That's why I tend to agree with the video. If not starting with an IDE, you're going to hit a lot of basic errors that will lead to googling and learning of how the language works.
Either way though, if not using an IDE is discouraging when starting out, then learn in an IDE and come back to without an IDE later. Both are good to know well in the end. My norm now is vim for quick scripts/tinkers -> ST3 for many projects -> PyCharm/Eclipse/KDevelop when I need TODO tracking, debugger, run by hotkey/right-click, etc. ST3 really is a sweet spot for me. It runs everywhere, has an excellent module ecosystem, is light-weight, efficient, and has a great license since I can use at home or work so long as I'm the only one using it (it's also the right price).
I've always found IDEs to be cumbersome, so I just use plain old Notepad for coding. lol
What’s the largest program you’ve ever written?
@@user-dh8oi2mk4f Well, I'm a game developer, so my software does get quite complex.
This is greatly mitigated, by splitting up the project into many smaller files, as is the standard.
The largest program I've ever written, is a bit tricky to answer, as I've never really considered it. (I'd have to compare previous projects, to figure it out.)
The smallest program I've ever written is quite simple to answer, though. It was a 4KB (4096 bytes) Atari 2600 game, that I'd made as a personal challenge.