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Sweet. Love these videos where you explain the how and why along with data illustrating your point. Excellent as always. Some day I'll get compounds on our truck if for no other reason to quiet it down some. Gets pretty loud in there above 2k rpm.
In our testing we saw no advantage with the 5” outlet. We even used a full 5 inch hood stack with that housing and a 4 inch hood stack with the 4” housing. At the high 900HP runs the 4 inch made the same power everywhere.
The BMW s63 engine is a hot vee V8. It uses two dual scroll turbos, but the exhaust manifolds are like an X shape. So each turbo is fed by two cylinders on each side. It is a pretty interesting design, but that engine makes torque down low like a diesel
Well, I'd say that there is benefit in single turbo setup, and on low rpm. Also pulsed manifold and housings especially help on low mass flow and part throttle where they induce evenly spaced pulses for turbine wheel to attribute more shaft rpm in low flow conditions. But all of that benefits actually hurt high flow performance, especially here with compounds...
Awesome stuff!!! Yall are really making some differences in the aftermarket!!!! keep it up and keep the Vids coming!!! I Learned something today! Love it!
Divided housing has absolutely no place on any application where the exhaust pulses are already merged before the turbine. You'll have the ability to melt the divider every time, because it's now required to "split" the gases back apart. That's bad for everything. Off a split manifold however, there could be an argument for a generally larger turbine wheel and divided housing.
Also curious on this kit. Would buy it from power driven for the obvious care into research in development as well as giving us this info to help the consumer.
I would of like to seen this done one a common rail and each setup tuned for best results. NON the less very interesting I would ofnthought the 1.15 divided housing would of spooled much quicker because of the added cast iron to the division making the supply area tighter. Shows what i know. . I want qn ooen one now. .
I’m looking into buying an S464 for a stock 6.7 Cummins Not sure if I should get the .90 or 1.0 housing I noticed on some sites it says .90 is not recommended for the 6.7?
Always wondered. Good comparison. Too bad Banks did not do this with his air horn.... Hint hint potential vid ideas no one has done, cuz there is no difference. Probably not even at 1000hp.
@@pddofficial I'm waiting a few more days for injectors to get delivered. Might be ordering one after that depending on how it spools with them though.
ever experiment with a spool valve on the small turbo, (Divided housing with a valve the redirects all the exhaust into one scroll and when boost comes up, the valve opens allowing full volume.) then put your small turbo exhaust into the undivided housing of the big turbo. I run one of these valves on a single turbo divided housing gas engine and it works amazing, you get the benefit of small housing for spool up and big housing for top end power. ruclips.net/video/2BXP8TLBLzc/видео.html
Sorry.. twinscroll housing require alternate pulse going into each side of the scroll port... Not just half bank of the cyl to 1 side and another half to the other! Thats already making your test dyno data invalid.. Also thats the reason your keep melting your turbo scroll divider wall 😂 Make a proper twinscroll manifold/header with proper alternate pulse flow into each scroll, then test again... Then u can see minimum 500rpm faster turbo spool up and then it will keep going making good power matching the rest of your dyno plot... Have a look into how firing order relates to twinscroll turbo manifold design in JDM supary impreza ej20 setup to make easier understanding of the concept of twinscroll turbo.. Cheers
Great point! However, in this case, the 6bt Cummins firing order does correctly alternate between front and rear scrolls from the factory and all mass produced aftermarket manifolds share this geometry: 1 thru 3 are connected to the first scroll and 4 thru 6 feed the rear scroll. With the firing order being 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4, each scroll is fed correctly. The melted divider doesn't usually occur on these engines till they exceed 1500 rwhp. What's also interesting is gasoline and/or methanol applications also suffer from melted divider/melted center gasket as power density becomes extreme. Most of the high-end GTX55 class race turbochargers consequently are offered with non-divided v-band inlet flanges. If divided pulses could be harnessed safely on these extreme race applications, they would be.
@@pddofficial ahh ok.. understood.. sorry for the harsh earlier assumption... then the next question would be does the gtx turbine blade design were optimized for twinscroll housing design or compromised between twin and single scroll... As for melting the divider plate.. at over 1500hp level.. i guess it does makes sense... Because mainly atleast on gasoline specific application twinscroll turbos were often common on sub 1000hp mark for roadcourse usage where trancient/boost thereshold during part throttle application matter the most between corners to the next... While drag/strip/roll racing application with2step launch control, turbo lag issue almost doesnt mattter.. Cheers.. Anyways thanks for sharing the insight... And another question, why water pouring out from the front of the truck during dyno pulls?
In the 80s single turbo F1 engines always used divided housings and revved to ~12000 rpm, they must have been idiots. Even today V6 F1 engines use divided housings, they must be idiots.
F1 is not about maximum power, it's about maximum usable power on a track with a need for maximum transient power response. F1 was not building compound turbos either, there is no valid argument to use a divided housing for the second turbo in a compound setup because the exhaust pulses are no longer divided.
@@klev2008 If the EGT is enough to melt the divider how would the turbine wheel and wastegate survive? The only way I can think of the divider melting and not everything else melting would be if excess fuel was burning in the exhaust and not in the engine, because valves and everything would normally burn just like the divider.
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You could WIN an Aggressor 480 (or store credit!) by placing ANY order on our website through 8/31 using coupon code 480FORME at checkout. Click here to start shopping: powerdrivendiesel.com/
Sweet. Love these videos where you explain the how and why along with data illustrating your point. Excellent as always. Some day I'll get compounds on our truck if for no other reason to quiet it down some. Gets pretty loud in there above 2k rpm.
Heck yeah! Thank you for watching!
How about 5" vs 4" undivided? Some of us don't mind the fab work if we can pick up a bit more power with the same fuel.
In our testing we saw no advantage with the 5” outlet. We even used a full 5 inch hood stack with that housing and a 4 inch hood stack with the 4” housing. At the high 900HP runs the 4 inch made the same power everywhere.
@@pddofficial Thanks again for testing and sharing the data.
The BMW s63 engine is a hot vee V8. It uses two dual scroll turbos, but the exhaust manifolds are like an X shape. So each turbo is fed by two cylinders on each side. It is a pretty interesting design, but that engine makes torque down low like a diesel
Excellent. Good illustration to show the pressure differential across the engine matters too. Free to make power...
Nicely explaind... For my Gen 2 Cumminns doing regular towing with a 5 speed trans, I will go with the divided housing
Well, I'd say that there is benefit in single turbo setup, and on low rpm. Also pulsed manifold and housings especially help on low mass flow and part throttle where they induce evenly spaced pulses for turbine wheel to attribute more shaft rpm in low flow conditions. But all of that benefits actually hurt high flow performance, especially here with compounds...
Awesome stuff!!! Yall are really making some differences in the aftermarket!!!! keep it up and keep the Vids coming!!! I Learned something today! Love it!
Thanks David!
Reason I put a .85 undivided on my Sxe588 on my first gen. 🙂
Hope you're able to produce a video on your trucks sometime here feller 👍👍👊
Rubbish. You have a 400hp 1st gen
@@RockyMountain4x4 probably about right. That why the egts don’t go over 1000f and it will make 70 psi boost with 80psi drive at 3800rpms.
Super cool info on the divided vs undivided turbo benefits. I appreciate the work, time, and money that goes into these videos.
Thank you!
Turbo rpm data and hot pipe drive pressure would really be interesting data to see.
Nah, these guys just explode everything.
Divided housing has absolutely no place on any application where the exhaust pulses are already merged before the turbine.
You'll have the ability to melt the divider every time, because it's now required to "split" the gases back apart. That's bad for everything. Off a split manifold however, there could be an argument for a generally larger turbine wheel and divided housing.
Testing and proving concepts? Just who do you think you are? Banks performance or something? /s
Eagerly awaiting PDD's 6.0 compound kit release
Also curious on this kit. Would buy it from power driven for the obvious care into research in development as well as giving us this info to help the consumer.
I would of like to seen this done one a common rail and each setup tuned for best results. NON the less very interesting
I would ofnthought the 1.15 divided housing would of spooled much quicker because of the added cast iron to the division making the supply area tighter. Shows what i know. . I want qn ooen one now. .
Trailer pulling and work truck divided housing is king?
On the manifold charger, yes, for the down stream charger in a compound turbo application, undivided is king!
Great video & information! 👍
Make more videos like this.
Do one about piston fuel bowl de-lipping please
Need to offer an Aggressor 472 T4 Undivided 1.15 83 Turbine
If the market likes this housing then that housing is next!
What did you mean my precise fuel control? Does this truck have an EFC on it?
How do you know about that!
I may have missed it but how much fuel in CC’s?
Also, what about doing the test with a single turbo?
Max power on this truck was around 600cc’s. The pump does more but that’s the limit of the turbo system.
Very informative! As always PDD 💯👍
I’m looking into buying an S464 for a stock 6.7 Cummins Not sure if I should get the .90 or 1.0 housing I noticed on some sites it says .90 is not recommended for the 6.7?
Always wondered. Good comparison.
Too bad Banks did not do this with his air horn....
Hint hint potential vid ideas no one has done, cuz there is no difference. Probably not even at 1000hp.
I think at 1700 hp we saw a variance of around .3 psi in the plenum with different types of air horns
@@pddofficial How does that translate into horse power if at all. .3 seems to be within margin of error.
great vids and data as always👌👍👍nice work
Glad you like them!
When I get to 3100 plus my engine seems like it wants to fly apart
Have you done any upgrades to the valve train?
I was just thinking about swapping from a 1.32 to 1.15 housing on my S475.
Are you guys spying on me?
Maybe……
@@pddofficial I'm waiting a few more days for injectors to get delivered. Might be ordering one after that depending on how it spools with them though.
ever experiment with a spool valve on the small turbo, (Divided housing with a valve the redirects all the exhaust into one scroll and when boost comes up, the valve opens allowing full volume.) then put your small turbo exhaust into the undivided housing of the big turbo. I run one of these valves on a single turbo divided housing gas engine and it works amazing, you get the benefit of small housing for spool up and big housing for top end power.
ruclips.net/video/2BXP8TLBLzc/видео.html
Sorry.. twinscroll housing require alternate pulse going into each side of the scroll port...
Not just half bank of the cyl to 1 side and another half to the other!
Thats already making your test dyno data invalid..
Also thats the reason your keep melting your turbo scroll divider wall 😂
Make a proper twinscroll manifold/header with proper alternate pulse flow into each scroll, then test again...
Then u can see minimum 500rpm faster turbo spool up and then it will keep going making good power matching the rest of your dyno plot...
Have a look into how firing order relates to twinscroll turbo manifold design in JDM supary impreza ej20 setup to make easier understanding of the concept of twinscroll turbo..
Cheers
Great point! However, in this case, the 6bt Cummins firing order does correctly alternate between front and rear scrolls from the factory and all mass produced aftermarket manifolds share this geometry: 1 thru 3 are connected to the first scroll and 4 thru 6 feed the rear scroll. With the firing order being 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4, each scroll is fed correctly. The melted divider doesn't usually occur on these engines till they exceed 1500 rwhp. What's also interesting is gasoline and/or methanol applications also suffer from melted divider/melted center gasket as power density becomes extreme. Most of the high-end GTX55 class race turbochargers consequently are offered with non-divided v-band inlet flanges. If divided pulses could be harnessed safely on these extreme race applications, they would be.
@@pddofficial ahh ok.. understood.. sorry for the harsh earlier assumption...
then the next question would be does the gtx turbine blade design were optimized for twinscroll housing design or compromised between twin and single scroll...
As for melting the divider plate.. at over 1500hp level.. i guess it does makes sense...
Because mainly atleast on gasoline specific application twinscroll turbos were often common on sub 1000hp mark for roadcourse usage where trancient/boost thereshold during part throttle application matter the most between corners to the next...
While drag/strip/roll racing application with2step launch control, turbo lag issue almost doesnt mattter..
Cheers..
Anyways thanks for sharing the insight...
And another question, why water pouring out from the front of the truck during dyno pulls?
In the 80s single turbo F1 engines always used divided housings and revved to ~12000 rpm, they must have been idiots. Even today V6 F1 engines use divided housings, they must be idiots.
F1 is not about maximum power, it's about maximum usable power on a track with a need for maximum transient power response. F1 was not building compound turbos either, there is no valid argument to use a divided housing for the second turbo in a compound setup because the exhaust pulses are no longer divided.
@@pddofficial you are right, useless to even test divided housing after HP turbo, everyone knows they flow very bad because of divider.
❤️🔥😎🇺🇸
Melting the divider can not be true when the EGT is 1000F.
My stock car is able to hit over 1000F EGT and I have not melted anything yet.
1000 degrees is very very safe egt
@@pddofficial So what EGT are you running then to melt the divider?
@@larsjrgensen5975I’d imagine 1400+ degree egt easy
@@klev2008 If the EGT is enough to melt the divider how would the turbine wheel and wastegate survive?
The only way I can think of the divider melting and not everything else melting would be if excess fuel was burning in the exhaust and not in the engine, because valves and everything would normally burn just like the divider.