You could WIN an Aggressor 480 (or store credit!) by placing ANY order on our website through 8/31 using coupon code 480FORME at checkout. Click here to start shopping: powerdrivendiesel.com/
Sweet. Love these videos where you explain the how and why along with data illustrating your point. Excellent as always. Some day I'll get compounds on our truck if for no other reason to quiet it down some. Gets pretty loud in there above 2k rpm.
In our testing we saw no advantage with the 5” outlet. We even used a full 5 inch hood stack with that housing and a 4 inch hood stack with the 4” housing. At the high 900HP runs the 4 inch made the same power everywhere.
The BMW s63 engine is a hot vee V8. It uses two dual scroll turbos, but the exhaust manifolds are like an X shape. So each turbo is fed by two cylinders on each side. It is a pretty interesting design, but that engine makes torque down low like a diesel
Divided housing has absolutely no place on any application where the exhaust pulses are already merged before the turbine. You'll have the ability to melt the divider every time, because it's now required to "split" the gases back apart. That's bad for everything. Off a split manifold however, there could be an argument for a generally larger turbine wheel and divided housing.
Awesome stuff!!! Yall are really making some differences in the aftermarket!!!! keep it up and keep the Vids coming!!! I Learned something today! Love it!
I would of like to seen this done one a common rail and each setup tuned for best results. NON the less very interesting I would ofnthought the 1.15 divided housing would of spooled much quicker because of the added cast iron to the division making the supply area tighter. Shows what i know. . I want qn ooen one now. .
Also curious on this kit. Would buy it from power driven for the obvious care into research in development as well as giving us this info to help the consumer.
Always wondered. Good comparison. Too bad Banks did not do this with his air horn.... Hint hint potential vid ideas no one has done, cuz there is no difference. Probably not even at 1000hp.
I’m looking into buying an S464 for a stock 6.7 Cummins Not sure if I should get the .90 or 1.0 housing I noticed on some sites it says .90 is not recommended for the 6.7?
@@pddofficial I'm waiting a few more days for injectors to get delivered. Might be ordering one after that depending on how it spools with them though.
Sorry.. twinscroll housing require alternate pulse going into each side of the scroll port... Not just half bank of the cyl to 1 side and another half to the other! Thats already making your test dyno data invalid.. Also thats the reason your keep melting your turbo scroll divider wall 😂 Make a proper twinscroll manifold/header with proper alternate pulse flow into each scroll, then test again... Then u can see minimum 500rpm faster turbo spool up and then it will keep going making good power matching the rest of your dyno plot... Have a look into how firing order relates to twinscroll turbo manifold design in JDM supary impreza ej20 setup to make easier understanding of the concept of twinscroll turbo.. Cheers
Great point! However, in this case, the 6bt Cummins firing order does correctly alternate between front and rear scrolls from the factory and all mass produced aftermarket manifolds share this geometry: 1 thru 3 are connected to the first scroll and 4 thru 6 feed the rear scroll. With the firing order being 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4, each scroll is fed correctly. The melted divider doesn't usually occur on these engines till they exceed 1500 rwhp. What's also interesting is gasoline and/or methanol applications also suffer from melted divider/melted center gasket as power density becomes extreme. Most of the high-end GTX55 class race turbochargers consequently are offered with non-divided v-band inlet flanges. If divided pulses could be harnessed safely on these extreme race applications, they would be.
@@pddofficial ahh ok.. understood.. sorry for the harsh earlier assumption... then the next question would be does the gtx turbine blade design were optimized for twinscroll housing design or compromised between twin and single scroll... As for melting the divider plate.. at over 1500hp level.. i guess it does makes sense... Because mainly atleast on gasoline specific application twinscroll turbos were often common on sub 1000hp mark for roadcourse usage where trancient/boost thereshold during part throttle application matter the most between corners to the next... While drag/strip/roll racing application with2step launch control, turbo lag issue almost doesnt mattter.. Cheers.. Anyways thanks for sharing the insight... And another question, why water pouring out from the front of the truck during dyno pulls?
Your maximum power will be more dependent on the airflow capacity of your atmospheric turbo's compressor side and the total exhaust flow of the smaller charger+wastegate internal or external. Even if an atmospheric charger housing starts a choke a little, it'll have a much smaller effect on power output than say the difference between a 72mm compressor that flows 100 lbs/min and an 80mm compressor that flows 130 lbs/min. Or the difference you'd see going from a stock 58mm HE351 turbine wheel/9cm housing vs an S300 class charger or even a small S400 based high pressure turbo. All that said, this turbine housing with an Aggressor 480 turbo in a compound setup would do 1000 to 1200 HP on a 5.9 or 6.7 Common Rail Cummins.
@@pddofficial love to hear it. what smaller turbo would best pair with the 480 for street drivability and also 1000 hp capability? something along the lines of a s362 or s364? thanks for all your knowledge guys
In the 80s single turbo F1 engines always used divided housings and revved to ~12000 rpm, they must have been idiots. Even today V6 F1 engines use divided housings, they must be idiots.
F1 is not about maximum power, it's about maximum usable power on a track with a need for maximum transient power response. F1 was not building compound turbos either, there is no valid argument to use a divided housing for the second turbo in a compound setup because the exhaust pulses are no longer divided.
ever experiment with a spool valve on the small turbo, (Divided housing with a valve the redirects all the exhaust into one scroll and when boost comes up, the valve opens allowing full volume.) then put your small turbo exhaust into the undivided housing of the big turbo. I run one of these valves on a single turbo divided housing gas engine and it works amazing, you get the benefit of small housing for spool up and big housing for top end power. ruclips.net/video/2BXP8TLBLzc/видео.html
@@klev2008 If the EGT is enough to melt the divider how would the turbine wheel and wastegate survive? The only way I can think of the divider melting and not everything else melting would be if excess fuel was burning in the exhaust and not in the engine, because valves and everything would normally burn just like the divider.
You could WIN an Aggressor 480 (or store credit!) by placing ANY order on our website through 8/31 using coupon code 480FORME at checkout. Click here to start shopping: powerdrivendiesel.com/
Sweet. Love these videos where you explain the how and why along with data illustrating your point. Excellent as always. Some day I'll get compounds on our truck if for no other reason to quiet it down some. Gets pretty loud in there above 2k rpm.
Heck yeah! Thank you for watching!
How about 5" vs 4" undivided? Some of us don't mind the fab work if we can pick up a bit more power with the same fuel.
In our testing we saw no advantage with the 5” outlet. We even used a full 5 inch hood stack with that housing and a 4 inch hood stack with the 4” housing. At the high 900HP runs the 4 inch made the same power everywhere.
@@pddofficial Thanks again for testing and sharing the data.
The BMW s63 engine is a hot vee V8. It uses two dual scroll turbos, but the exhaust manifolds are like an X shape. So each turbo is fed by two cylinders on each side. It is a pretty interesting design, but that engine makes torque down low like a diesel
Reason I put a .85 undivided on my Sxe588 on my first gen. 🙂
Hope you're able to produce a video on your trucks sometime here feller 👍👍👊
Nicely explaind... For my Gen 2 Cumminns doing regular towing with a 5 speed trans, I will go with the divided housing
Testing and proving concepts? Just who do you think you are? Banks performance or something? /s
Excellent. Good illustration to show the pressure differential across the engine matters too. Free to make power...
Divided housing has absolutely no place on any application where the exhaust pulses are already merged before the turbine.
You'll have the ability to melt the divider every time, because it's now required to "split" the gases back apart. That's bad for everything. Off a split manifold however, there could be an argument for a generally larger turbine wheel and divided housing.
Awesome stuff!!! Yall are really making some differences in the aftermarket!!!! keep it up and keep the Vids coming!!! I Learned something today! Love it!
Thanks David!
Turbo rpm data and hot pipe drive pressure would really be interesting data to see.
Nah, these guys just explode everything.
Super cool info on the divided vs undivided turbo benefits. I appreciate the work, time, and money that goes into these videos.
Thank you!
Need to offer an Aggressor 472 T4 Undivided 1.15 83 Turbine
If the market likes this housing then that housing is next!
When I get to 3100 plus my engine seems like it wants to fly apart
I would of like to seen this done one a common rail and each setup tuned for best results. NON the less very interesting
I would ofnthought the 1.15 divided housing would of spooled much quicker because of the added cast iron to the division making the supply area tighter. Shows what i know. . I want qn ooen one now. .
Eagerly awaiting PDD's 6.0 compound kit release
Also curious on this kit. Would buy it from power driven for the obvious care into research in development as well as giving us this info to help the consumer.
Great video & information! 👍
Always wondered. Good comparison.
Too bad Banks did not do this with his air horn....
Hint hint potential vid ideas no one has done, cuz there is no difference. Probably not even at 1000hp.
I think at 1700 hp we saw a variance of around .3 psi in the plenum with different types of air horns
@@pddofficial How does that translate into horse power if at all. .3 seems to be within margin of error.
Make more videos like this.
Do one about piston fuel bowl de-lipping please
I’m looking into buying an S464 for a stock 6.7 Cummins Not sure if I should get the .90 or 1.0 housing I noticed on some sites it says .90 is not recommended for the 6.7?
great vids and data as always👌👍👍nice work
Glad you like them!
Trailer pulling and work truck divided housing is king?
On the manifold charger, yes, for the down stream charger in a compound turbo application, undivided is king!
I may have missed it but how much fuel in CC’s?
Also, what about doing the test with a single turbo?
Max power on this truck was around 600cc’s. The pump does more but that’s the limit of the turbo system.
Very informative! As always PDD 💯👍
I was just thinking about swapping from a 1.32 to 1.15 housing on my S475.
Are you guys spying on me?
Maybe……
@@pddofficial I'm waiting a few more days for injectors to get delivered. Might be ordering one after that depending on how it spools with them though.
What did you mean my precise fuel control? Does this truck have an EFC on it?
How do you know about that!
Sorry.. twinscroll housing require alternate pulse going into each side of the scroll port...
Not just half bank of the cyl to 1 side and another half to the other!
Thats already making your test dyno data invalid..
Also thats the reason your keep melting your turbo scroll divider wall 😂
Make a proper twinscroll manifold/header with proper alternate pulse flow into each scroll, then test again...
Then u can see minimum 500rpm faster turbo spool up and then it will keep going making good power matching the rest of your dyno plot...
Have a look into how firing order relates to twinscroll turbo manifold design in JDM supary impreza ej20 setup to make easier understanding of the concept of twinscroll turbo..
Cheers
Great point! However, in this case, the 6bt Cummins firing order does correctly alternate between front and rear scrolls from the factory and all mass produced aftermarket manifolds share this geometry: 1 thru 3 are connected to the first scroll and 4 thru 6 feed the rear scroll. With the firing order being 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4, each scroll is fed correctly. The melted divider doesn't usually occur on these engines till they exceed 1500 rwhp. What's also interesting is gasoline and/or methanol applications also suffer from melted divider/melted center gasket as power density becomes extreme. Most of the high-end GTX55 class race turbochargers consequently are offered with non-divided v-band inlet flanges. If divided pulses could be harnessed safely on these extreme race applications, they would be.
@@pddofficial ahh ok.. understood.. sorry for the harsh earlier assumption...
then the next question would be does the gtx turbine blade design were optimized for twinscroll housing design or compromised between twin and single scroll...
As for melting the divider plate.. at over 1500hp level.. i guess it does makes sense...
Because mainly atleast on gasoline specific application twinscroll turbos were often common on sub 1000hp mark for roadcourse usage where trancient/boost thereshold during part throttle application matter the most between corners to the next...
While drag/strip/roll racing application with2step launch control, turbo lag issue almost doesnt mattter..
Cheers..
Anyways thanks for sharing the insight...
And another question, why water pouring out from the front of the truck during dyno pulls?
what kind of power would this turbo support as the atmosphere/bigger charger in a compound setup on a 6.7 common rail with the undivided housing?
Your maximum power will be more dependent on the airflow capacity of your atmospheric turbo's compressor side and the total exhaust flow of the smaller charger+wastegate internal or external. Even if an atmospheric charger housing starts a choke a little, it'll have a much smaller effect on power output than say the difference between a 72mm compressor that flows 100 lbs/min and an 80mm compressor that flows 130 lbs/min. Or the difference you'd see going from a stock 58mm HE351 turbine wheel/9cm housing vs an S300 class charger or even a small S400 based high pressure turbo. All that said, this turbine housing with an Aggressor 480 turbo in a compound setup would do 1000 to 1200 HP on a 5.9 or 6.7 Common Rail Cummins.
@@pddofficial love to hear it. what smaller turbo would best pair with the 480 for street drivability and also 1000 hp capability? something along the lines of a s362 or s364? thanks for all your knowledge guys
In the 80s single turbo F1 engines always used divided housings and revved to ~12000 rpm, they must have been idiots. Even today V6 F1 engines use divided housings, they must be idiots.
F1 is not about maximum power, it's about maximum usable power on a track with a need for maximum transient power response. F1 was not building compound turbos either, there is no valid argument to use a divided housing for the second turbo in a compound setup because the exhaust pulses are no longer divided.
@@pddofficial you are right, useless to even test divided housing after HP turbo, everyone knows they flow very bad because of divider.
ever experiment with a spool valve on the small turbo, (Divided housing with a valve the redirects all the exhaust into one scroll and when boost comes up, the valve opens allowing full volume.) then put your small turbo exhaust into the undivided housing of the big turbo. I run one of these valves on a single turbo divided housing gas engine and it works amazing, you get the benefit of small housing for spool up and big housing for top end power.
ruclips.net/video/2BXP8TLBLzc/видео.html
Melting the divider can not be true when the EGT is 1000F.
My stock car is able to hit over 1000F EGT and I have not melted anything yet.
1000 degrees is very very safe egt
@@pddofficial So what EGT are you running then to melt the divider?
@@larsjrgensen5975I’d imagine 1400+ degree egt easy
@@klev2008 If the EGT is enough to melt the divider how would the turbine wheel and wastegate survive?
The only way I can think of the divider melting and not everything else melting would be if excess fuel was burning in the exhaust and not in the engine, because valves and everything would normally burn just like the divider.
❤️🔥😎🇺🇸