MY EXPERIENCE , Makes me feel young😂 68 pattern - loved 85 pattern - crap 94 pattern - it was ok Jungle DPM - very cool Para smock - looked good Cbt 95 - was ok Windproof smock - brilliant Desert don early - good Desert don late - didn’t like Early MTP - good Current MTP - ok Lesson, the best was jungle trousers with DPM windproof smock
I loved the68 pattern smock but may favourite was the 90 pattern, very well made, rugged, loads of pockets including the chest vertical zip pockets, fairly close jacket type cut compared to the quite loose smock style of the s94 gear.
I remember a stipulation that 2 first field dressings should be carried in the left breast pocket of the combat jacket so that everyone knew where to get them in an emergency the rule being that you never used your own FFD on another person
@@derekmcmanus8615 I never heard about the left breast pocket, but you’re right, you kept yours for yourself. It was almost impossible to get your own dressing out of that sleeve pocket, it was a job for someone else to do while doing buddy-buddy aid.
@@derekmcmanus8615 RAMC myself, we always told they guys top left smock pocket. The sleeve pocket was as much use and the knife pocket just against the groin on the 68 Pattern trousers. We carried three sizes of FFD, the small large and then. the 12 x 12 inch extra large FFD that we're usually only on issue to RAMC medics. I remember using a stripped down belt kit and then swapped to chest webbing on my third tour.
Ref the mk 6 helmets I was Royal Irish we had to have the mounts for a visor , I must admit I preferred the Cromwell helmet I had a spare first feild dressing to wedge the visor at an angle.
The light weights were still on issue, but I wore combat trousers right through the 90s into the 2000's, we wore green light weights in the early 80's, we stopped wearing them as they melted when we were petrol bombed and made burns worse as the material used melted like plastic and stuck to you legs
The suggested danger with lightweights - them being more of a problem under flame conditions - is a fallacy. And by fallacy I mean it is simply not true. I have an Army report into trials conducted to test the flammability etc of various late1980s army orders of dress. The report states there was no appreciable danger attributed to the wearing of lightweights. It is true to say that Combat uniform was the preferred uniform to wear at potential riot situations (as seen from the early 70s onwards) - but this is because combat uniform is a more appropriate order of dress given the risks involved (snipers etc). Within some units there may have been a suggested danger with lightweights. But this almost certainly stemmed from the prevalence of the myth or a misunderstanding why combats were the stipulated order of dress for public order situations. There is a similar myth regarding lightweights which stems from the Sir Galahad incident in the Falklands. However, most of the troops in that incident were wearing combats (in preparation for battle). And indeed the Royal Marines continued to wear lightweights onboard ship for many years after.
@@badgertheskinnycowin 1981 we were issued 3 pairs of OG trousers to wear instead of lightweights because of the melting problem , as you may know og’s were all cotton .
@@lesallan4042 My Battalion served in Belfast 82 (Whiterock)- nobody was issued OGs. Even a quick search on Google will bring up dozens of photos of British Troops in NI wearing Lightweights.
I don't believe there is a difference in the 'quality' of manufacturing between 84 and 94 combat uniforms Simon. Indeed many of the same manufactures produced both. And the same quality specification & standards applied to both. There were some issues with the bellows pockets on the original 84 issue, later corrected on a revised version issued soon after. The issue was with the original design. The lighter weight of material on the 84 pattern smock was intentional but it is true to say it wore less well than 68 Pattern. The Army standardised a GS pattern of chest webbing at the start of the 90s (the earliest example I own is dated 1992). So I would suggest anyone wearing a non GS version in the mid-90s was doing so due to being issued it as a member of a prior COP Platoon tour, out of choice as it was a favoured private purchase example or because they didn't get the GS one issued.
Depends on where the unit was operating at the time and the current threat level. The lowest I am aware of was 5 rounds per man (7.62) during the Falklands war (ammunition stocks being depleted to supply the Task Force) The locally recruited Ulster Defence Regiment generally carried 50 rounds per rifleman with 100 rounds for the LSW operators however they usually only patrolled for 8 hours or 12 hours in a static guard postion. A good rule of thumb would be that a regular unit would carry double that load but I have seen a video documentary showing a unit based in the Augher area issuing 75 rounds per man (3 50 round boxes to be split between 2 men) As the author states at this time there was a great deal of variation between units companies and even individuals
@@derekmcmanus8615I done my first tour in Clougher 1988/89, 1st Battalion Royal Irish Rangers, standard issue for us was 120 rounds per man, 4 magazines. We were only issued the SA 80, a month or so before deployment. Extra ammunition was carried per man for LSW. We also had, can't remember the exact term for it, the grenade launcher weapon, 3 per 12 man multiple. Again, depending on the operation we were involved in around East Tyrone, extra ammunition was carried. Because of the introduction of the LSW, the GPMG, was more or less withdrawn. The powers that be had decided it wasn't required in the ground role. In future tours, occasionally the GPMG was carried, as obviously it was a more effective weapon than the LSW would ever be.
We put tape over top of spare magazines to prevent rounds getting lost. We were more worried about trouble from lost ammo rather than quick mag change. Would also mark top round with black marker for visual check no round lost.
Lightweight trousers were still being issued at the point Op Banner in NI came to a close. There was never an army wide ban on the wearing of lightweights on patrol (that I'm aware of). There was a myth regarding the effect of flame/fire on the fabric - which possibly caused some units to change their local policy. However, the introduction of Soldier 95 uniform - with the lighter material/design of combat trousers meant they became more universally worn in general and in NI.
@badgertheskinnycow Op Banner finished in 2007. Can't speak for other Arms, but from around 1992 until I retired, Denims as we called the green lightweight trousers had long gone for the 4 different infantry regiments I served with. Was combats all the way for basically everything, in camp, on exercise or on ops. Personally in the approximately the nine years in total I served in Northern Ireland, first tour 1988, not once did I ever see the green lightweight trousers worn in or out of camp.
@@stuartbrown8259 I was trying to answer both questions - issued/ worn. My lad joined in 2005 and was issued Lightweights. A quick Google search shows photos of British soldiers on Ops in NI wearing Lightweights throughout the 1980s. I was serving till 1990 and my regiment were still wearing Lightweights then. But I agree the wearing of combats became more common into the 90s and after. However, my belief is that this was down to unit preference rather than an actual official ban on the wearing of Lightweights.
@@badgertheskinnycow Not an issue mate. Granted, it might have been a unit decision to just wear combat clothing. Can't comment on what individual units could or couldn't wear. For example,, after I finished our first tour in 89, I volunteered to go back to Northern Ireland with our 2nd Battalion, again everything was the then combats. Shortly after that we got posted to Warminster as Demo Battalion. Personally can't remember if we wore the ' Denims' or not, as practically every week we were on exercise on the plain, if not in coveralls working on the vehicles, so more often in combat wear. Then after that posted to Cyprus, so it was the old Desert Combats, all year round. Towards the end of that I got posted, as a Warrior instructor, my choice, back to Osnabruck, with the PWRR, again all was Combats. They went back to the UK, The Green Howards took over, seemed at the time, always on tour or exercise, so combats. Obviously the Combat 95 clothing was issued around this period, so all the old ' Green ' stuff was ditched. Only going from memory, but even if we wore the Lightweights, it was a rare thing. I know this conversation is about Northern Ireland, and who wore what, personally after many tours, and service here, I live in Belfast, even growing up in the 70s, can't recall ever seeing soldiers in the Lightweights, except on old videos, not in the flesh as they were walking down my street. As I say, no issue, probably a unit uniform decision as to what was to be worn when in the province.
Who didn't want to be there it's a shit hole. The only benefit from being there in the mid 90s was saving enough money to buy a cheap XR2i etc when you finished your tour to impress the birds back home when on leave. I wasted 6 months of my life there.
@@apollo8972NI has transformed now you wouldn't recognise it....I was in Coventry recently and was the biggest shit hole ever seen.... dirty streets and shop signs like from the 80s
@@jackietreehorn5561 Yes I agree. Many English towns have been taken over by foreigners the Midlands is probably the worst affected. Unfortunately it's the way it's going everywhere. N.I will be no exception.
MY EXPERIENCE , Makes me feel young😂
68 pattern - loved
85 pattern - crap
94 pattern - it was ok
Jungle DPM - very cool
Para smock - looked good
Cbt 95 - was ok
Windproof smock - brilliant
Desert don early - good
Desert don late - didn’t like
Early MTP - good
Current MTP - ok
Lesson, the best was jungle trousers with DPM windproof smock
//the best was jungle trousers with DPM windproof smock// .... of course, absolute classic look !
I loved the68 pattern smock but may favourite was the 90 pattern, very well made, rugged, loads of pockets including the chest vertical zip pockets, fairly close jacket type cut compared to the quite loose smock style of the s94 gear.
I remember the arm pocket being used to hold the first field dressing.
I remember a stipulation that 2 first field dressings should be carried in the left breast pocket of the combat jacket so that everyone knew where to get them in an emergency the rule being that you never used your own FFD on another person
And a racing spoon 😋
@@derekmcmanus8615 I never heard about the left breast pocket, but you’re right, you kept yours for yourself. It was almost impossible to get your own dressing out of that sleeve pocket, it was a job for someone else to do while doing buddy-buddy aid.
@@derekmcmanus8615 RAMC myself, we always told they guys top left smock pocket. The sleeve pocket was as much use and the knife pocket just against the groin on the 68 Pattern trousers. We carried three sizes of FFD, the small large and then. the 12 x 12 inch extra large FFD that we're usually only on issue to RAMC medics. I remember using a stripped down belt kit and then swapped to chest webbing on my third tour.
Ref the mk 6 helmets I was Royal Irish we had to have the mounts for a visor ,
I must admit I preferred the Cromwell helmet I had a spare first feild dressing to wedge the visor at an angle.
The mk6 was incredibly bad, I can't believe they were still used beyond even the 80s
@@weronikazalewska2098this...👆
@@derekmcmanus8615 We had the Turtle tin lid twice as long as the MK6 lol and the MK6 was a blessing to use compared to that.
The '94 jacket is a favorite.
i had the 42 pattern chest rig and 45 pattern, and was not allowed to wear either, lol
my unit CO insisted on standard PLCE webbing,
From what I understand they were fairly expensive bits of kt at the time, a bugger you weren't allowed to use them!
Combat 95 Jackets. My favourite
We're into the multi layer system
Chest rig- good in urban patrols, We're side pouches get caught on things
The light weights were still on issue, but I wore combat trousers right through the 90s into the 2000's, we wore green light weights in the early 80's, we stopped wearing them as they melted when we were petrol bombed and made burns worse as the material used melted like plastic and stuck to you legs
The suggested danger with lightweights - them being more of a problem under flame conditions - is a fallacy. And by fallacy I mean it is simply not true.
I have an Army report into trials conducted to test the flammability etc of various late1980s army orders of dress. The report states there was no appreciable danger attributed to the wearing of lightweights.
It is true to say that Combat uniform was the preferred uniform to wear at potential riot situations (as seen from the early 70s onwards) - but this is because combat uniform is a more appropriate order of dress given the risks involved (snipers etc).
Within some units there may have been a suggested danger with lightweights. But this almost certainly stemmed from the prevalence of the myth or a misunderstanding why combats were the stipulated order of dress for public order situations.
There is a similar myth regarding lightweights which stems from the Sir Galahad incident in the Falklands. However, most of the troops in that incident were wearing combats (in preparation for battle). And indeed the Royal Marines continued to wear lightweights onboard ship for many years after.
@@badgertheskinnycowwere you in?
@@badgertheskinnycowin 1981 we were issued 3 pairs of OG trousers to wear instead of lightweights because of the melting problem , as you may know og’s were all cotton .
@@PeterNgola Yes - in the Regs throughout the 1980s. And I served in NI.
@@lesallan4042 My Battalion served in Belfast 82 (Whiterock)- nobody was issued OGs. Even a quick search on Google will bring up dozens of photos of British Troops in NI wearing Lightweights.
I don't believe there is a difference in the 'quality' of manufacturing between 84 and 94 combat uniforms Simon. Indeed many of the same manufactures produced both. And the same quality specification & standards applied to both.
There were some issues with the bellows pockets on the original 84 issue, later corrected on a revised version issued soon after. The issue was with the original design. The lighter weight of material on the 84 pattern smock was intentional but it is true to say it wore less well than 68 Pattern.
The Army standardised a GS pattern of chest webbing at the start of the 90s (the earliest example I own is dated 1992). So I would suggest anyone wearing a non GS version in the mid-90s was doing so due to being issued it as a member of a prior COP Platoon tour, out of choice as it was a favoured private purchase example or because they didn't get the GS one issued.
First comment, 90s kit what a lovely day
Did British soldiers in Northern Ireland carry a full load of ammo while patroling?
Depends on where the unit was operating at the time and the current threat level.
The lowest I am aware of was 5 rounds per man (7.62) during the Falklands war (ammunition stocks being depleted to supply the Task Force)
The locally recruited Ulster Defence Regiment generally carried 50 rounds per rifleman with 100 rounds for the LSW operators however they usually only patrolled for 8 hours or 12 hours in a static guard postion.
A good rule of thumb would be that a regular unit would carry double that load but I have seen a video documentary showing a unit based in the Augher area issuing 75 rounds per man (3 50 round boxes to be split between 2 men)
As the author states at this time there was a great deal of variation between units companies and even individuals
@@derekmcmanus8615I done my first tour in Clougher 1988/89, 1st Battalion Royal Irish Rangers, standard issue for us was 120 rounds per man, 4 magazines. We were only issued the SA 80, a month or so before deployment. Extra ammunition was carried per man for LSW. We also had, can't remember the exact term for it, the grenade launcher weapon, 3 per 12 man multiple. Again, depending on the operation we were involved in around East Tyrone, extra ammunition was carried. Because of the introduction of the LSW, the GPMG, was more or less withdrawn. The powers that be had decided it wasn't required in the ground role. In future tours, occasionally the GPMG was carried, as obviously it was a more effective weapon than the LSW would ever be.
Yes, we carried 1 loaded mag of 25, with two more mags of 25. 75 rounds total. 1 in 5 were tracer rounds
We put tape over top of spare magazines to prevent rounds getting lost. We were more worried about trouble from lost ammo rather than quick mag change. Would also mark top round with black marker for visual check no round lost.
Put a big safety pin through shoulder strap to hang a mike for radio. Need a big role of white tape in one of the pockets, to mark out a corden.
No INIBA then?
When were OD TMLs ( trousers, men's lightweight) no longer issued/worn in Northern Ireland?
Lightweight trousers were still being issued at the point Op Banner in NI came to a close.
There was never an army wide ban on the wearing of lightweights on patrol (that I'm aware of). There was a myth regarding the effect of flame/fire on the fabric - which possibly caused some units to change their local policy. However, the introduction of Soldier 95 uniform - with the lighter material/design of combat trousers meant they became more universally worn in general and in NI.
@badgertheskinnycow Op Banner finished in 2007. Can't speak for other Arms, but from around 1992 until I retired, Denims as we called the green lightweight trousers had long gone for the 4 different infantry regiments I served with. Was combats all the way for basically everything, in camp, on exercise or on ops. Personally in the approximately the nine years in total I served in Northern Ireland, first tour 1988, not once did I ever see the green lightweight trousers worn in or out of camp.
@@stuartbrown8259 I was trying to answer both questions - issued/ worn. My lad joined in 2005 and was issued Lightweights.
A quick Google search shows photos of British soldiers on Ops in NI wearing Lightweights throughout the 1980s. I was serving till 1990 and my regiment were still wearing Lightweights then. But I agree the wearing of combats became more common into the 90s and after. However, my belief is that this was down to unit preference rather than an actual official ban on the wearing of Lightweights.
@@badgertheskinnycow Not an issue mate. Granted, it might have been a unit decision to just wear combat clothing. Can't comment on what individual units could or couldn't wear. For example,, after I finished our first tour in 89, I volunteered to go back to Northern Ireland with our 2nd Battalion, again everything was the then combats. Shortly after that we got posted to Warminster as Demo Battalion. Personally can't remember if we wore the ' Denims' or not, as practically every week we were on exercise on the plain, if not in coveralls working on the vehicles, so more often in combat wear. Then after that posted to Cyprus, so it was the old Desert Combats, all year round. Towards the end of that I got posted, as a Warrior instructor, my choice, back to Osnabruck, with the PWRR, again all was Combats. They went back to the UK, The Green Howards took over, seemed at the time, always on tour or exercise, so combats. Obviously the Combat 95 clothing was issued around this period, so all the old ' Green ' stuff was ditched. Only going from memory, but even if we wore the Lightweights, it was a rare thing. I know this conversation is about Northern Ireland, and who wore what, personally after many tours, and service here, I live in Belfast, even growing up in the 70s, can't recall ever seeing soldiers in the Lightweights, except on old videos, not in the flesh as they were walking down my street. As I say, no issue, probably a unit uniform decision as to what was to be worn when in the province.
Ah yes the kit of an occupying force
Who didn't want to be there it's a shit hole. The only benefit from being there in the mid 90s was saving enough money to buy a cheap XR2i etc when you finished your tour to impress the birds back home when on leave. I wasted 6 months of my life there.
@@apollo8972NI has transformed now you wouldn't recognise it....I was in Coventry recently and was the biggest shit hole ever seen.... dirty streets and shop signs like from the 80s
@@jackietreehorn5561 Yes I agree. Many English towns have been taken over by foreigners the Midlands is probably the worst affected. Unfortunately it's the way it's going everywhere. N.I will be no exception.
@@apollo8972 👍
@@apollo8972 towns here are modern now and clean, I was shocked when I went to Birmingham and Coventry....