I'd rather fire my molds for an extra hour and not worry about leftover polycast getting burned in the pour. I've had several castings fail because of impatience. No reason to throw away hours of print time, mold making, and burnout, because you didn't go that extra hour and then have a small amount of polycast ruin the entire cast. I've realized that slow steady heat gives you best burnout results. I've tried using propane weed burning torch to speed up the burnout and it just ruins the quality of the mold by cracking the mold. Be patient everyone. There doesn't seem to be any shortcuts in casting that doesn't include paying for better equipment. Investment casting that is. I've still not done sand casting. The stuff I make needs higher precision then I can get with sand casting
I use a pottery kiln for firing the mold. It heats up slowly and has a built in timer. The only thing I'd change is getting a smaller one. I never use the full volume of my kiln
If you would just move over to wax resin you don’t even need to do a burnout, stick it in a bread toaster opening down and set it to like 240 for a couple minutes
centrifugal casting is DEFINITELY dangerous. I had an incident in one of my jewelry/silversmithing classes where an unexpectedly loose bolt caused the flask to separate from the crucible and sprayed molten bronze everywhere. I *almost* lost my face and I absolutely set my friend on fire (she was wearing heavy cotton so only smouldered a little bit. everyone's fine, miracle that that is). If the "dangerous thing" you want to do is the thing where you purposefully splatter metal on the surrounding barrier, have the highest barrier you possibly can.
Lol I was worried about splatter. I don't intend to do any splattering intentionally, but I want to go for much bigger mold sizes. I don't feel like having a giant mold full of pounds of molten bronze whipping around in my garage. I could get bludgeoned and then burned if it went wrong 🤣
An "unexpectedly loose bolt" at the wrong place on your car could have you end up in a ditch. I've cast with a spincaster for over 40 years and haven't had a single accident because I maintain my equipment. Performed properly spin casting isn't inherently more dangerous than any other industrial process.
Just a note: if you are investment casting with gems (sapphires, emeralds, rubies etc) you can incorporate them in the wax before casting, but DO NOT quick cool it in water, let it cool down slower at air/room temp. Otherwise it will shatter the gemstones
really? I hadn't thought of that. sounds like a risky thing to do with an expensive stone, but then again i have no idea how to set a stone in a ring either way
Thank you for emphasizing that you should turn the vacuum valve off before shutting down the vacuum pump off. Or it will draw massive amounts of oil out of the vacuum pump. Other vacuum pump uploads show that....but they don't emphasize it. It's a very important step that shouldn't be missed.
Optimum shell temperatures definitely vary based on alloy...the rule when investment casting steel, stainless steel, nickel-based alloys, and cobalt-based alloys is to hold the shell at 1800˚F for pouring, while cast irons work best at 1400˚F (we never did any investment-cast bronze/brass at my last foundry and where I work now we only pour nickel alloys in the shells we buy from someone else). Based on those temperatures and the usual pouring temps for those alloys and for ZA12, that shell temp is probably a pretty good guess.
Bronze/silver/gold mold temps are supposedly 700-900F depending on the thickness of the parts, I guessed lower with za12 because it melts waaay cooler than silver. Just guessing tho
Plaster, even when "cured" still has moisture in it and if you pour hot metal into it, the moisture flashes into steam and instantly cracks the mold (or even explode if too moist). The ramping up of temperature ensures that steam in the pores slowly evaporates. So no, you can't melt the wax too quickly (for the sake of not cracking the mold). I learned the hard way 🙂
I had taken a precious metal casting class from a master caster, and the plaster we used did not require that special ramp up, we had one furnace that did our burnout and our preheat, always set to the same temp. Which either tells me you should look into different plasters, or the ramp up procedure is that that important. I personally like the one oven option.
@@PaulsGarage It was a very simple oven, with an on and off switch, didn’t have a control board to even program. it was turned on and left there. We had to wait until it was up to temp before we could put our molds in.
@chrism3839 huh that's interesting. The program for this resin involves cranking at high temperature for a while then lowering down to pouring temp. I wonder if the burnout process here has more to do with the resin. Sirayatech cast blue is higher in wax content and they say it is meant to burnout easier. Maybe ill try that resin with a faster burnout
@@PaulsGarage Collect/buy scraps then melt together. That is what my Dad did a lot of: of course he had a lot of filings and clippings to melt down, but can still do it from scraps of others. Key is to make sure not to mix carats so you got a pure grade to melt. Dad could just look at it and tell whether it was 18 or 10 etc. or plated. I could never do that. But today we there are some instruments that reclaimers use that can tell for sure what it is. Ive seen some YT vids on them and maybe seen some ads. That might be your next tool to get, and you could do a video on it ;-) Good luck!
A programmable kiln is pretty much necessary for investment casting. The heat cycle is ramped / stepped so that the investment cures before the burnout begins.
For a super quick burnout you need a phosphate bonded investment (however you'll also need a sandblaster because its rock hard an won't break up when quenching) I regularly place rings in an 800C oven and cast an hour later, resin or wax.
That's interesting, i've never heard of phosphate bonded investment. That wounds great, but i think i want to avoid the sand blasting. Mostly because I don't have a sand blaster. Seems like a worthwhile tradeoff for some applications though.
@@PaulsGarage it's super common in dental laboratory (and jewelery investments for platinum) ransom and Randolph Biovest is an example of one (that the general public can buy, but it doesn't give a super perfect surface finish unless climbing at 11°c/min from 0, others are more robust). In the past I've used hydrofluoric acid based wheel cleaner in a bottle, in an ultrasonic.....but that doesn't typically tickle many people's fancy either lol, surely something like vinegar or other dissolving solution could be used.
@karlanm925 that's really interesting, thanks. My burnout oven can be programmed pretty specifically so 11/min should be doable. Certainly worth trying
that's great! which one did you get? they should all work fine with this resin. If you have any questions about the wash/cure process, vogman has a great video on it, and you can ask me anything. Vogman has more experience than I do with lost resin, though. I just got some siraya tech cast blue which is supposed to be a bit more forgiving to process and burn out, just more difficult to print.
@@PaulsGarage I got the Elegoo Saturn 3. And I got the true blue castable resin. It seemed like I didn’t need to use glycerin as part of the cure with that one, which seems like a plus. I bought a heating pad made for plants and I’m hoping that will work as a heater to warm the resin. We’ll see. I think I will try to make a video of me making things to sell to see how long it takes me to pay it off, if I even can.
Industry is working on shortening burnout. Bluecast has been working on crazy short times for the last 2 years or so now. We are down to 6hrs in our own studio. A lot of standard jewellery industry at scale is just risk adverse when they have a lot of tooling and time already invested, when it comes to something they see as still experimental.
Great explanation and demo of the whole process. I think VOG would be proud. Now don’t get sidetracked with miniatures and forget you’re building a lathe, lol! 😂
My scale is just a little too large for vacuum casting, so we went with suspend-a-slurry. That stuff has a STEEP learning curve, but since I'm from the Chicagoland area, its too cold for that. Your prints turned out remarkably well!
For my jewelry casting I use "sticky wax" it's way more sticky than hot glue and burns out clean. Melt it into the joints but don't use it as the sprues themselves
One thing I didn’t hear you mention…. Once you pour the investment into the flask, you should vibrate the flask to mitigate air bubbles in the mold. Also, for polishing, a roller or vibratory polisher with crushed walnut shells ( or other media depending on the material being polished ) can get into the small crevices….
My vevor electric furnace is still going strong as well. My custom steel pipe crucible has held up for more than 10# of aluminum foil and tray melting, probably because I welded a piece of 1/4" plate to the bottom. That will probably be the last to go, even with the big flakes I get after each session. Still a big jump from $200 for the furnace to $600-700 for the vacuum. Will have to think more about that, especially since I would also still need an oven. Right now I'm doing something even stranger. Laser cutting paper forms, then gluing them together, and plaster coating them. Its a similar journey of discovery. (Like I discovered using white glue that washes off is *bad* if you're going to coat them in wet plaster.) Still step by step.
That electric furnace is fantastic, but it seems like investment casting itself is crazy expensive. Even ceramic shell, you don't need a vacuum but then you need a really BIG burnout oven. You can't win lol. Not like sand casting: wood box and sticky sand, the end.
I first had seen this whole process with Men At Arms when they forged certain swords they had a Jeweler go through the whole process of investment casting everytime.
Very cool you made it this far! What good results you have got! Now the only thing left to do is actually make the pieces, and that should be the most fun. :) Have you thought about pieces you need to build up from several prints? I have always wanted to have like a "pimp cup" made out of bronze or brass. Chunky like a chocolate bar. Maybe to drink hot chocolate from. XD Or with cast in place rubies. :) Greetings, Jeff
well next is the lathe feet which will be sand cast, but i was thinking of using vacuum to make the crank knobs and the split nut. I could try to cast in cleaner threads on the split nut and do it in aluminum bronze or something to be more wear resistant. For the crank knobs i 3D modelled up a fillagree looking one i want to try to investment cast, too. Probably going to make a bunch of cranks, though, several processes. it would make a good comparo-video
Just a suggestion, but some people are searching for instructional videos on how to cast metal from 3-D prints who end up here want to see the tools required, method, and results instead of seeing a video of you talking, so perhaps consider voiceover?
Electroplating looks awesome, but you still end up with a plastic part. Since I'm building primarily functional stuff, I want the strength. Electroplating almost looks cooler though
@brandonfrancey5592 cheaper definitely and you could probably use gold and silver. I don't know about easier, it could be but I'm so comfortable with casting, I'd have to learn electroplating from scratch lol
They have a whole bunch of cool alloys I would love to try out. So far I've been doing zamak-12 which I melt down in the large gas furnace, zamak holds a shine pretty well too
Zamak is 90 to 96% zinc and the fumes from zinc are very toxic. I'd stick to pewter, tin or aluminium and you can use high temperature rubber mold mix for metal under 200c!
Entertaining video as always. I wonder though, what is the average barometric pressure at your altitude and how did you build the wall of Ace Hardware buckets in he background?
Your results are excellent. I'm jealous, I've tried siraya tech cast, I find residues in the foundries and the results don't suit me. I'm also testing resione C01 with difficulties, probably due to the high temperature required to burn it. For the moment, the only good results I've had are with the bluecast X one, which is unfortunately expensive. I'll keep on trying, hoping to achieve the same results as you. Thanks for the motivation! One question: what is the temperature of the plaster during casting za12 ?
i've never tried burning out siraya tech in anythign other than a LONG controlled, high temperature oven. i'm not sure how it burns out in a foundry furnace. I have heard siraya tech cast blue burns out easier, though. The plaster temperature for za12 is something i'm guessing at. same for pouring temp for the za12. I think in this video, i poured at 500c for the metal, with the flask at 600f. It stayed liquid still for a VERY long time, i could probably lower the flask temperature another hundred degrees or more. I've heard 700-900 degrees is the right flask temperature for bronze, but za12 melts at a thousand degrees colder than bronze, so 600f for the flask is likely way too hot.
I have a question regarding your vacuum casting machine. What is your opinion on the VEVOR z brand vacuum casting machine you are using? Have you done any castings in silver or gold?
I have not done any silver or gold casting with it, but it should be able to do either. The vevor machine is most likely the same as the toauto machine or other similarly priced ones for sale. They are all knock offs of the more expensive Kayacast machine, and vevor is just the reseller. I think vevor gives you a better deal than the others though if you register on their website. It has been problem free so far.
This isn´t "equipment-intensive" if you cast mechanical parts, that have another level of utility compared to jewelry/tin-soldiers...!!! Cast some heavy alu-gears, measure for tolerances and trueness... Happy to see you succeed so much !!!!!!!! How many efforts did the good results took you, after starting using the vacuum-pump additionally ???? Thanks
you know I was just thinking about that. I still talk while recording, actually, but I never use it. The reason I switched was because the old way took several times longer to edit and it was just unmanageable. There has to be a way to hybridize it, though. I'll try to figure that out. I can see why people hire editors though, it's a MASSIVE time suck and i'd rather be making stuff, you know?
Dumb question, but im having trouble finding this info. For the sprues, are there channels going into the vacuum chamber? Ive read "absolutely not" but I immediately think "Well then where does the air go? Through the mold?"
Excellent question. There are no air channels into the vacuum chamber. This plaster is a little porous, so with the vacuum pressure (or centrifugal pressure from a spin caster) the air gets forced into the plaster, allowing the metal in without bubbles. Sand casting does the same, the air can go through the sand
that castable wax resin is expensive. i wonder if you can use normal resin and make a positive, then make a mold out of silicone or plaster. then cast the negative out of candle wax. bit more work but loads cheaper.
I bet you could. The added cost of the silicone mold would mean you have to make multiples to get your money back though. Probably a lot of them. These things I printed in wax resin came out to roughly 30 cents per print, more than double a normal resin, but still literal pennies per item. When you factor in the plaster and energy and metal, it's probably a miniscule money savings. It's still probably worth it to get a wax piece to not have to process the resin prints, though. Just make a wax one in the mold and away you go, no cleaning and curing needed
You're not wrong lol that's vacuum casting, unfortunately. Every way I tried to design it, everything ended up significantly worse AND more expensive to scratch build. And the tools here are the *budget* (cheap) ones. Sand casting is so much more affordable and you can scavenge stuff from the kitchen and hardware store like I did. Every suggestion from people on how to do vacuum casting cheaper ended up calculating out to pennies per small casting at the expense of a MUCH higher failure rate, or didn't apply to printed resin casts, etc... it was exhausting researching and then doing all of this but the whole sunk cost think forced me through it 🤣 Back to sand casting for a bit I think
Would you say the vevor vacuum is worth it? I’ve read so many people saying to just take the plunge and get the Kaya cast but that one is almost twice the price (even on sale).
I haven't tried the Kaya cast, but a friend of mine has. He likes it, but he's also a jeweler. The vevor one works for sure, but with kayacast you are getting a better vacuum pump, the degassing table vibrates on its own, and probably a better warranty. The vevor one works fine, though. It probably comes down to what you want to do. If you are producing lots of stuff constantly, always get the better machine. Occasional use as a hobby, though, and the added cost may not pay you back. Personally I plan to do some modifications to the machine and I do NOT want to butcher an expensive Kayacast rig.
@@PaulsGarage thanks for the response! There’s a lot to weigh esp factoring my own very veeery minimal ability to fix anything that breaks. They’re both going to cost an arm, I guess I should really think about if I want to lose the leg too just for peace of mind
you know, my editing computer had keys so worn out (from editing and also gaming from years ago) that the little nubs to place your index finger on the letter F is completely gone lol (F is an editing shortcut i use a LOT). the spacebar even has a section where my thumb has worn it totally shiny!
Not finding the vac machine on their website when I search for it. Is it just me? Link in description didn't work for me either. Was hoping to check the price.
@@tobhomott i get the feeling it will be. They love the US, but hate the rest of the world it seems. Same with ToAuto who are likewise a quality brand with lots of cheap toys that perform well.. If you live in the US 😅 Annoying really as they're both Chinese brands not yankkee 😂
@@PaulsGarageJust goofin'! Very interesting, information blast, I'll just listen at half-speed. Your editing is very tight, others could learn to cut out the silences.
As a fellow fail-fast learner, I would have left off the tiny sprues. Also I wonder if quenching too early can cause investment to damage the surface of the silver 🤷
also I mentioned to you before about shorter burnouts, i had secretly hoped you would get all sciency on it :P Ive done 9 hour burnouts with ok success, and 15 hour manufacturer rec’d burnouts with still some surface imperfections. still a lot to learn. best way to learn is face first.
If you have success with shorter burnouts let me know what schedule you used. Comments I got made me think people want a 1 or 2 hour burnout, im not seeing that happening though. And funny story about the really tiny sprues, the parts wouldn't stay attached because of the weight of the prints, so I added the tiny ones more to hold it together than to transfer metal or air. I'm surprised that they all filled with metal
@@PaulsGarage I feel like a drier flask might allow for a shorter first phase (investment dehumidify phase).. maybe 🤔 … also looks like thicker bigger pieces need different handling and resin compared to intricate pieces .. thanks for the video…. Clear Mind Jewelry has good videos on these topics too.
I've never heard of that channel but I'll check it out. I have an extended drying phase at the beginning, yeah. I'm unreasonably worried that a steam explosion will break the thing. I've lost way too much pottery to me being impatient and firing damp stuff
@@PaulsGarage Ive read somewhere that if you let it dry too much that the resin can start to absorb into the investment sooo I dont know where the sweet spot is. Ive emailed with Prestige before and I think they would be helpful if you had any tech questions.
2 reasons i'm not using oxy-acetylene. 1: i can get exact temp control with this furnace, and up to 3kg at a time (i use it for sand casting also), and 2: I don't have an oxy-acetylene torch.
Lol yeah "its a great way to learn really quickly" yeah my version is eventually you'll run out of ways to fuck it up, but guess that doesn't really work on youtube.
@@PaulsGarage Good, I just ruined an expensive 9.5 cfm vacuum by not changing the oil for a year. The investment literally made its way into the oil, to my surprise.
Thr process I used here was even longer lol but from the comments I got, people wanted a couple hours tops or less than an hour. Not seeing that happening. To get it hot and hold that temp, you would need to heat it so fast it would shock everything
@@PaulsGarage With Siraya Purple and Blue, I reliably do 5 hour burnouts even filling a perforated flask that size. Burns out perfectly :) 1h 150c 1h 350c 1h 500c 2h 730c then drop and hold to casting temp for an hour. With Blue cast X-One V2 resin, you can dump it in a 730c kiln for 2 hours, drop and hold for an hout and it's ready to cast 😂 The one important thing to note is the flasks, once invested, must be left to dry for 120-180 minutes before putting in the kiln. Those guidelines are ridiculous tbh, I used to follow them at 17 hours, until running out of time a few times and just trying reduce it a ton and noticed it still works (with wax), then started doing it with castable resins, and seeing others talk about rapid burnout in groups. I've even spoken with jewellers who've their own stores, and they'll do under 7 hours all the time cos energy costs are crazy here for businesses 😂 You might want to contact the manufacturer of that investment directly, and seeing what their minimum order quantity is so you can get it cheaper, $150 is crazy high, here in the UK I think its about $100 a sack currently for retail, but like $60 wholesale direct from SRS lol
It’s really hard to listen to what you are saying with that ridiculous carnival music playing along your entire video, while great for turning your brain off watching cartoons, doesn’t work so well for most maker channels imho.
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I'd rather fire my molds for an extra hour and not worry about leftover polycast getting burned in the pour. I've had several castings fail because of impatience. No reason to throw away hours of print time, mold making, and burnout, because you didn't go that extra hour and then have a small amount of polycast ruin the entire cast. I've realized that slow steady heat gives you best burnout results. I've tried using propane weed burning torch to speed up the burnout and it just ruins the quality of the mold by cracking the mold. Be patient everyone. There doesn't seem to be any shortcuts in casting that doesn't include paying for better equipment. Investment casting that is. I've still not done sand casting. The stuff I make needs higher precision then I can get with sand casting
Well said! This takes so long, don't waste all the work with shoetcuts
I use a pottery kiln for firing the mold. It heats up slowly and has a built in timer. The only thing I'd change is getting a smaller one. I never use the full volume of my kiln
If you would just move over to wax resin you don’t even need to do a burnout, stick it in a bread toaster opening down and set it to like 240 for a couple minutes
centrifugal casting is DEFINITELY dangerous. I had an incident in one of my jewelry/silversmithing classes where an unexpectedly loose bolt caused the flask to separate from the crucible and sprayed molten bronze everywhere. I *almost* lost my face and I absolutely set my friend on fire (she was wearing heavy cotton so only smouldered a little bit. everyone's fine, miracle that that is). If the "dangerous thing" you want to do is the thing where you purposefully splatter metal on the surrounding barrier, have the highest barrier you possibly can.
Lol I was worried about splatter. I don't intend to do any splattering intentionally, but I want to go for much bigger mold sizes. I don't feel like having a giant mold full of pounds of molten bronze whipping around in my garage. I could get bludgeoned and then burned if it went wrong 🤣
An "unexpectedly loose bolt" at the wrong place on your car could have you end up in a ditch.
I've cast with a spincaster for over 40 years and haven't had a single accident because I maintain my equipment. Performed properly spin casting isn't inherently more dangerous than any other industrial process.
Just a note: if you are investment casting with gems (sapphires, emeralds, rubies etc) you can incorporate them in the wax before casting, but DO NOT quick cool it in water, let it cool down slower at air/room temp. Otherwise it will shatter the gemstones
really? I hadn't thought of that. sounds like a risky thing to do with an expensive stone, but then again i have no idea how to set a stone in a ring either way
@@PaulsGarage VOGMan has a video where he tried it. I think it was about 2 years back.
Seen it done, the gems don’t have any issues with the high temp.
@@chrism3839 It’s not the heat, it’s the shock cooling that may crack the stones.
@@giuseppe4909 correct, I was not trying to contradict that, just adding to the conversation.
Thank you for emphasizing that you should turn the vacuum valve off before shutting down the vacuum pump off. Or it will draw massive amounts of oil out of the vacuum pump. Other vacuum pump uploads show that....but they don't emphasize it. It's a very important step that shouldn't be missed.
I love very much that Paul's Garage 2.0 kind of presentation and editing
Thanks!
Optimum shell temperatures definitely vary based on alloy...the rule when investment casting steel, stainless steel, nickel-based alloys, and cobalt-based alloys is to hold the shell at 1800˚F for pouring, while cast irons work best at 1400˚F (we never did any investment-cast bronze/brass at my last foundry and where I work now we only pour nickel alloys in the shells we buy from someone else). Based on those temperatures and the usual pouring temps for those alloys and for ZA12, that shell temp is probably a pretty good guess.
Bronze/silver/gold mold temps are supposedly 700-900F depending on the thickness of the parts, I guessed lower with za12 because it melts waaay cooler than silver. Just guessing tho
Plaster, even when "cured" still has moisture in it and if you pour hot metal into it, the moisture flashes into steam and instantly cracks the mold (or even explode if too moist). The ramping up of temperature ensures that steam in the pores slowly evaporates. So no, you can't melt the wax too quickly (for the sake of not cracking the mold). I learned the hard way 🙂
I had taken a precious metal casting class from a master caster, and the plaster we used did not require that special ramp up, we had one furnace that did our burnout and our preheat, always set to the same temp. Which either tells me you should look into different plasters, or the ramp up procedure is that that important. I personally like the one oven option.
That's good to hear. We're you using printed resin like this or just wax? I'd love to short cut the burnout for sure
@@PaulsGarage I was doing PLA+ as a test, worked perfectly, and others were doing wax.
@chrism3839 that's interesting, did he just crank it up to a certain temp or was it a set burn and hold kind of thing?
@@PaulsGarage It was a very simple oven, with an on and off switch, didn’t have a control board to even program. it was turned on and left there. We had to wait until it was up to temp before we could put our molds in.
@chrism3839 huh that's interesting. The program for this resin involves cranking at high temperature for a while then lowering down to pouring temp. I wonder if the burnout process here has more to do with the resin. Sirayatech cast blue is higher in wax content and they say it is meant to burnout easier. Maybe ill try that resin with a faster burnout
My dad was a jeweler who did his own castings in gold and silver. You did him proud! ;-)
Thank you! I appreciate that! Jewelry making is so cool. I wish I could afford to make stuff from gold lol
@@PaulsGarage Collect/buy scraps then melt together. That is what my Dad did a lot of: of course he had a lot of filings and clippings to melt down, but can still do it from scraps of others. Key is to make sure not to mix carats so you got a pure grade to melt. Dad could just look at it and tell whether it was 18 or 10 etc. or plated. I could never do that. But today we there are some instruments that reclaimers use that can tell for sure what it is. Ive seen some YT vids on them and maybe seen some ads. That might be your next tool to get, and you could do a video on it ;-) Good luck!
A programmable kiln is pretty much necessary for investment casting. The heat cycle is ramped / stepped so that the investment cures before the burnout begins.
For a super quick burnout you need a phosphate bonded investment (however you'll also need a sandblaster because its rock hard an won't break up when quenching) I regularly place rings in an 800C oven and cast an hour later, resin or wax.
That's interesting, i've never heard of phosphate bonded investment. That wounds great, but i think i want to avoid the sand blasting. Mostly because I don't have a sand blaster. Seems like a worthwhile tradeoff for some applications though.
@@PaulsGarage it's super common in dental laboratory (and jewelery investments for platinum) ransom and Randolph Biovest is an example of one (that the general public can buy, but it doesn't give a super perfect surface finish unless climbing at 11°c/min from 0, others are more robust). In the past I've used hydrofluoric acid based wheel cleaner in a bottle, in an ultrasonic.....but that doesn't typically tickle many people's fancy either lol, surely something like vinegar or other dissolving solution could be used.
@karlanm925 that's really interesting, thanks. My burnout oven can be programmed pretty specifically so 11/min should be doable. Certainly worth trying
Electro polishing might be a good next project for you. It's like a reverse of plating.
Very nice set up. I just bought a resin printer over Black Friday so I’ll be giving some of this a try.
that's great! which one did you get? they should all work fine with this resin. If you have any questions about the wash/cure process, vogman has a great video on it, and you can ask me anything. Vogman has more experience than I do with lost resin, though. I just got some siraya tech cast blue which is supposed to be a bit more forgiving to process and burn out, just more difficult to print.
@@PaulsGarage I got the Elegoo Saturn 3. And I got the true blue castable resin. It seemed like I didn’t need to use glycerin as part of the cure with that one, which seems like a plus. I bought a heating pad made for plants and I’m hoping that will work as a heater to warm the resin. We’ll see.
I think I will try to make a video of me making things to sell to see how long it takes me to pay it off, if I even can.
Equipment used:
Vevor stuff: Code: VVMH5%OFF (5% off on all products)
Vacuum Casting machine: s.vevor.com/bfQIQf
Metal Melting Furnace: s.vevor.com/bfQoPf
Uniformation Printer: Code: GK140 for $140 off printer, or GK230 for $230 off kit www.uniformation3d.com/products/uniformation-gktwo-10-3-8k-resin-printer?sca_ref=4345752.v3kdNjnqDi
Amazon stuff:
Sirayatech Cast Purple Resin: amzn.to/3QOiN0M
Presige Optima Plaster: amzn.to/3sCre7l
10mm Wax Sprues 1lb: amzn.to/3MS6Cid
1mm Wax straws: amzn.to/49Wb3CL
2.5mm Wax straws: amzn.to/46loYin
Wax Pen: amzn.to/3sCrmUn
My Burnout Oven Build Playlist: ruclips.net/p/PL-aAeRpJou31awkN9xQIeMpIHwiHwRqyt
Burnout oven sold by PMC supplies: amzn.to/3QcFkpj
OnePageRules free stl’s: cults3d.com/en/users/onepagerules/3d-models
Want to learn sand casting using your 3D printer? I can teach you!: paulsmakeracademy.mykajabi.com/joinus
Snip your sprues or use a jewelry saw to cut larger ones it comes out better.
Industry is working on shortening burnout. Bluecast has been working on crazy short times for the last 2 years or so now. We are down to 6hrs in our own studio. A lot of standard jewellery industry at scale is just risk adverse when they have a lot of tooling and time already invested, when it comes to something they see as still experimental.
Great explanation and demo of the whole process. I think VOG would be proud. Now don’t get sidetracked with miniatures and forget you’re building a lathe, lol! 😂
This process will come into play with the lathe 😉
@@PaulsGarage I foresee fancy knobs and feet in the future ;)
@chrism3839 the feet are going to be cool, but sand cast with a cool technique, the knobs though... 😉
My scale is just a little too large for vacuum casting, so we went with suspend-a-slurry. That stuff has a STEEP learning curve, but since I'm from the Chicagoland area, its too cold for that. Your prints turned out remarkably well!
You can cast zinc in rubber molds. I think the Rio tools catalogue has the stuff. Some of the molds can be spun in a special machine for that.
For my jewelry casting I use "sticky wax" it's way more sticky than hot glue and burns out clean. Melt it into the joints but don't use it as the sprues themselves
when i look that up i keep getting dental wax, is it that stuff or different?
Love your work man! This is so informative!
I appreciate that! thank you very much!
great video! very fun and informative to watch
One thing I didn’t hear you mention…. Once you pour the investment into the flask, you should vibrate the flask to mitigate air bubbles in the mold. Also, for polishing, a roller or vibratory polisher with crushed walnut shells ( or other media depending on the material being polished ) can get into the small crevices….
I hope you make a variation of this process for pla on more common 3d printers! 🤞
My vevor electric furnace is still going strong as well. My custom steel pipe crucible has held up for more than 10# of aluminum foil and tray melting, probably because I welded a piece of 1/4" plate to the bottom. That will probably be the last to go, even with the big flakes I get after each session. Still a big jump from $200 for the furnace to $600-700 for the vacuum. Will have to think more about that, especially since I would also still need an oven.
Right now I'm doing something even stranger. Laser cutting paper forms, then gluing them together, and plaster coating them. Its a similar journey of discovery. (Like I discovered using white glue that washes off is *bad* if you're going to coat them in wet plaster.) Still step by step.
That electric furnace is fantastic, but it seems like investment casting itself is crazy expensive. Even ceramic shell, you don't need a vacuum but then you need a really BIG burnout oven. You can't win lol. Not like sand casting: wood box and sticky sand, the end.
Metal minis rings etc are awesome dude, well done.
thank you!
Use a tumbler polisher like the ones used for cleaning spent brass cartridges. Will polish up all them fine details your Dremel can't get to.
Thank you so much for this great video!!!!
Very detailed, i appreciate it a lot.
Thank you for watching! glad you like it
I first had seen this whole process with Men At Arms when they forged certain swords they had a Jeweler go through the whole process of investment casting everytime.
Very cool you made it this far!
What good results you have got!
Now the only thing left to do is actually make the pieces, and that should be the most fun. :)
Have you thought about pieces you need to build up from several prints? I have always wanted to have like a "pimp cup" made out of bronze or brass. Chunky like a chocolate bar. Maybe to drink hot chocolate from. XD Or with cast in place rubies. :)
Greetings,
Jeff
Where's the split nut! Lathe!!! Seriously though, nice setup with the new vacuum casting. I have always wanted to try that method out.
well next is the lathe feet which will be sand cast, but i was thinking of using vacuum to make the crank knobs and the split nut. I could try to cast in cleaner threads on the split nut and do it in aluminum bronze or something to be more wear resistant. For the crank knobs i 3D modelled up a fillagree looking one i want to try to investment cast, too. Probably going to make a bunch of cranks, though, several processes. it would make a good comparo-video
Very impressive results, although wow it seems like a lot of work
You got that right!
Just a suggestion, but some people are searching for instructional videos on how to cast metal from 3-D prints who end up here want to see the tools required, method, and results instead of seeing a video of you talking, so perhaps consider voiceover?
Pretty impressive results. Not sure how many need to be sold to pay pack the cost of the equipment, but as a hobby that is different matter.
I never sell anything I make so no idea 🤣 I doubt I could convince anybody to buy any jewelry I make even if I tried designing some
@@PaulsGarageI think you're bringing too humble here. 😅
Have you considered dabbling in electroplating any prints? I'm curious about the quality difference potentially between casting and plating.
Electroplating looks awesome, but you still end up with a plastic part. Since I'm building primarily functional stuff, I want the strength. Electroplating almost looks cooler though
@@PaulsGarage Absolutely, each has it's place, but for figures and even jewelry I think it would be substantially cheaper and easier.
@brandonfrancey5592 cheaper definitely and you could probably use gold and silver. I don't know about easier, it could be but I'm so comfortable with casting, I'd have to learn electroplating from scratch lol
Good vid Paul. I now need to spend more money.
I know the feeling lol
Belmont Metals has a White Bronze that sounds interesting to use as it's not supposed to corrode and holds a polish...
They have a whole bunch of cool alloys I would love to try out. So far I've been doing zamak-12 which I melt down in the large gas furnace, zamak holds a shine pretty well too
i love these videos.. the level of ADHD is a selling point
ADHD plus way too much caffeine ☕️☕️
Zamak is 90 to 96% zinc and the fumes from zinc are very toxic. I'd stick to pewter, tin or aluminium and you can use high temperature rubber mold mix for metal under 200c!
Entertaining video as always. I wonder though, what is the average barometric pressure at your altitude and how did you build the wall of Ace Hardware buckets in he background?
30.07in right now 🤣 and the bucket wall is all my pottery chemicals and clay
Your results are excellent. I'm jealous, I've tried siraya tech cast, I find residues in the foundries and the results don't suit me. I'm also testing resione C01 with difficulties, probably due to the high temperature required to burn it. For the moment, the only good results I've had are with the bluecast X one, which is unfortunately expensive. I'll keep on trying, hoping to achieve the same results as you. Thanks for the motivation! One question: what is the temperature of the plaster during casting za12 ?
i've never tried burning out siraya tech in anythign other than a LONG controlled, high temperature oven. i'm not sure how it burns out in a foundry furnace. I have heard siraya tech cast blue burns out easier, though. The plaster temperature for za12 is something i'm guessing at. same for pouring temp for the za12. I think in this video, i poured at 500c for the metal, with the flask at 600f. It stayed liquid still for a VERY long time, i could probably lower the flask temperature another hundred degrees or more. I've heard 700-900 degrees is the right flask temperature for bronze, but za12 melts at a thousand degrees colder than bronze, so 600f for the flask is likely way too hot.
nicely done, fellow Wisconsinite!
Thanks!! 🐄🧀
I have a question regarding your vacuum casting machine. What is your opinion on the VEVOR z
brand vacuum casting machine you are using? Have you done any castings in silver or gold?
I have not done any silver or gold casting with it, but it should be able to do either. The vevor machine is most likely the same as the toauto machine or other similarly priced ones for sale. They are all knock offs of the more expensive Kayacast machine, and vevor is just the reseller. I think vevor gives you a better deal than the others though if you register on their website. It has been problem free so far.
This isn´t "equipment-intensive" if you cast mechanical parts, that have another level of utility compared to jewelry/tin-soldiers...!!! Cast some heavy alu-gears, measure for tolerances and trueness... Happy to see you succeed so much !!!!!!!! How many efforts did the good results took you, after starting using the vacuum-pump additionally ???? Thanks
Thank you for the info. Plus the laughter. Haha
@PaulsGarage i miss the days when we got to go along for the ride as you did the process instead of talking about it after the fact and showing clips.
you know I was just thinking about that. I still talk while recording, actually, but I never use it. The reason I switched was because the old way took several times longer to edit and it was just unmanageable. There has to be a way to hybridize it, though. I'll try to figure that out. I can see why people hire editors though, it's a MASSIVE time suck and i'd rather be making stuff, you know?
@@PaulsGarage I agree that it would take longer and it's all good, won't stop me from watching your videos either way.
Dumb question, but im having trouble finding this info. For the sprues, are there channels going into the vacuum chamber? Ive read "absolutely not" but I immediately think "Well then where does the air go? Through the mold?"
Excellent question. There are no air channels into the vacuum chamber. This plaster is a little porous, so with the vacuum pressure (or centrifugal pressure from a spin caster) the air gets forced into the plaster, allowing the metal in without bubbles. Sand casting does the same, the air can go through the sand
So when you gonna do a demo
Do you have to figure out shrinkage for tighter tolerances?
yes, all metals will shrink to some extent. If you need perfect tolerances in any metal, it will have to be machined after casting.
I'd love to find someone who can do the metal casting portion of this.
that castable wax resin is expensive. i wonder if you can use normal resin and make a positive, then make a mold out of silicone or plaster. then cast the negative out of candle wax. bit more work but loads cheaper.
I bet you could. The added cost of the silicone mold would mean you have to make multiples to get your money back though. Probably a lot of them. These things I printed in wax resin came out to roughly 30 cents per print, more than double a normal resin, but still literal pennies per item. When you factor in the plaster and energy and metal, it's probably a miniscule money savings. It's still probably worth it to get a wax piece to not have to process the resin prints, though. Just make a wax one in the mold and away you go, no cleaning and curing needed
ahhh ya thats true. 30 cents isn't bad at all.
AWESOME !!!!!
Thanks!!
Dang, investment casting requires...investing. >w
It seems like Paul's Garage went from minimal expense do it yourself to holy crap, I can't afford any of that equipment!
You're not wrong lol that's vacuum casting, unfortunately. Every way I tried to design it, everything ended up significantly worse AND more expensive to scratch build. And the tools here are the *budget* (cheap) ones. Sand casting is so much more affordable and you can scavenge stuff from the kitchen and hardware store like I did.
Every suggestion from people on how to do vacuum casting cheaper ended up calculating out to pennies per small casting at the expense of a MUCH higher failure rate, or didn't apply to printed resin casts, etc... it was exhausting researching and then doing all of this but the whole sunk cost think forced me through it 🤣
Back to sand casting for a bit I think
Would you say the vevor vacuum is worth it? I’ve read so many people saying to just take the plunge and get the Kaya cast but that one is almost twice the price (even on sale).
I haven't tried the Kaya cast, but a friend of mine has. He likes it, but he's also a jeweler. The vevor one works for sure, but with kayacast you are getting a better vacuum pump, the degassing table vibrates on its own, and probably a better warranty. The vevor one works fine, though. It probably comes down to what you want to do. If you are producing lots of stuff constantly, always get the better machine. Occasional use as a hobby, though, and the added cost may not pay you back.
Personally I plan to do some modifications to the machine and I do NOT want to butcher an expensive Kayacast rig.
@@PaulsGarage thanks for the response! There’s a lot to weigh esp factoring my own very veeery minimal ability to fix anything that breaks. They’re both going to cost an arm, I guess I should really think about if I want to lose the leg too just for peace of mind
@@enzomareum1978 Yeah it's always a cost/reward game. I have rarely regretted getting a better tool, even with the price.
Make some metal keycaps. Maybe with braille on them or something weird
you know, my editing computer had keys so worn out (from editing and also gaming from years ago) that the little nubs to place your index finger on the letter F is completely gone lol (F is an editing shortcut i use a LOT). the spacebar even has a section where my thumb has worn it totally shiny!
And I thought resin printing itself was a pain. Just listening to this process wore me out.
Not finding the vac machine on their website when I search for it. Is it just me? Link in description didn't work for me either. Was hoping to check the price.
Really? I'll double check when I get home
If youre in the UK, like me, half their stuff isnt listed. They hate us here... Thanks Boris..
@@noviceartisan I'm in Canada, & was wondering if that might have been why
@@tobhomott i get the feeling it will be. They love the US, but hate the rest of the world it seems. Same with ToAuto who are likewise a quality brand with lots of cheap toys that perform well.. If you live in the US 😅
Annoying really as they're both Chinese brands not yankkee 😂
I remember the first time I tried Adderall.
never tried it, but it might help lol
@@PaulsGarageJust goofin'! Very interesting, information blast, I'll just listen at half-speed. Your editing is very tight, others could learn to cut out the silences.
And I'm watching at 1.5x speed and it's just barely fast enough for me. ^___^@@BobKatzenberg
built a vac casting table in 30 minutes...welder and some scrap metal...its ugly but does the job
As a fellow fail-fast learner, I would have left off the tiny sprues. Also I wonder if quenching too early can cause investment to damage the surface of the silver 🤷
also I mentioned to you before about shorter burnouts, i had secretly hoped you would get all sciency on it :P Ive done 9 hour burnouts with ok success, and 15 hour manufacturer rec’d burnouts with still some surface imperfections. still a lot to learn. best way to learn is face first.
If you have success with shorter burnouts let me know what schedule you used. Comments I got made me think people want a 1 or 2 hour burnout, im not seeing that happening though.
And funny story about the really tiny sprues, the parts wouldn't stay attached because of the weight of the prints, so I added the tiny ones more to hold it together than to transfer metal or air. I'm surprised that they all filled with metal
@@PaulsGarage I feel like a drier flask might allow for a shorter first phase (investment dehumidify phase).. maybe 🤔 … also looks like thicker bigger pieces need different handling and resin compared to intricate pieces .. thanks for the video…. Clear Mind Jewelry has good videos on these topics too.
I've never heard of that channel but I'll check it out. I have an extended drying phase at the beginning, yeah. I'm unreasonably worried that a steam explosion will break the thing. I've lost way too much pottery to me being impatient and firing damp stuff
@@PaulsGarage Ive read somewhere that if you let it dry too much that the resin can start to absorb into the investment sooo I dont know where the sweet spot is. Ive emailed with Prestige before and I think they would be helpful if you had any tech questions.
I'm surprised you're not using oxy-acetylene to melt with
2 reasons i'm not using oxy-acetylene. 1: i can get exact temp control with this furnace, and up to 3kg at a time (i use it for sand casting also), and 2: I don't have an oxy-acetylene torch.
Lol yeah "its a great way to learn really quickly" yeah my version is eventually you'll run out of ways to fuck it up, but guess that doesn't really work on youtube.
Oh God I hope you're changing the oil on that thing
Of course! Bought multiple bottles of vacuum oil.
@@PaulsGarage Good, I just ruined an expensive 9.5 cfm vacuum by not changing the oil for a year. The investment literally made its way into the oil, to my surprise.
@FrazierDanger that's too bad. I'm pretty careful with this one because it's a Chinesium unit, I don't want to give it any excuse to die on me 🤣
I don’t need a new facet to my hobby!
I don’t need a new facet to my hobby!
Maybe when I have space.
do iiiiit
"vacuum oil" sounds a bit like "blinker fluid"
in that both are totally real and absolutely required for proper function?
Yeah, 5 to 7 hour burnout is fine. no issue. no joke :)
Thr process I used here was even longer lol but from the comments I got, people wanted a couple hours tops or less than an hour. Not seeing that happening. To get it hot and hold that temp, you would need to heat it so fast it would shock everything
@@PaulsGarage With Siraya Purple and Blue, I reliably do 5 hour burnouts even filling a perforated flask that size. Burns out perfectly :) 1h 150c 1h 350c 1h 500c 2h 730c then drop and hold to casting temp for an hour.
With Blue cast X-One V2 resin, you can dump it in a 730c kiln for 2 hours, drop and hold for an hout and it's ready to cast 😂
The one important thing to note is the flasks, once invested, must be left to dry for 120-180 minutes before putting in the kiln.
Those guidelines are ridiculous tbh, I used to follow them at 17 hours, until running out of time a few times and just trying reduce it a ton and noticed it still works (with wax), then started doing it with castable resins, and seeing others talk about rapid burnout in groups. I've even spoken with jewellers who've their own stores, and they'll do under 7 hours all the time cos energy costs are crazy here for businesses 😂
You might want to contact the manufacturer of that investment directly, and seeing what their minimum order quantity is so you can get it cheaper, $150 is crazy high, here in the UK I think its about $100 a sack currently for retail, but like $60 wholesale direct from SRS lol
Dear Paul,
You always sound like you're on meth.
I know it's a mix of cafeïne, enthousiasme and adhd though!
Nice vid as always!
Tons of caffeine. So very, very much caffeine :D
It’s really hard to listen to what you are saying with that ridiculous carnival music playing along your entire video, while great for turning your brain off watching cartoons, doesn’t work so well for most maker channels imho.