Yes! Looking forward to this series. I am lucky to be quite good at managing fear of falling, but I'd love to learn how to properly teach others to get comfortable with it.
Thank you! I'm glad! I also talk about how to help friends with their fears. Hopefully it will be useful. And thank you so much for the consistent support, Edo! ❤️
I never recognized myself in what people usually describes as their fear of falling, mostly because they end up by being able to do it even if they don’t like it. This is the first time I am thinking « finally someone describes what I feel », I am happy I can put a word on it: I am definitely anxious about the whole idea of leading. It feels ondeed already like a huge progress for me. Thank you. I can’t wait to learn how I can work on it.
My anxiety related to falling is so... all-encompassing... I'm not even sure which specific things would be helpful for me to learn about. So I don't really have any specific questions, but I do have a few thoughts. 1) I've noticed when I fall unexpectedly while bouldering, I *usually* land without any issues. If I need to jump down, I'm much more likely to land strangely because I overthink it. For the most part my body knows how to fall, but I don't trust my body to get it right when it counts. I did gymnastics for 10 years, starting very young, so proper falling technique is probably quite ingrained in my muscle memory. But it's been nearly 20 years since I stopped doing gymnastics and I've lost the trust I used to have in my body. Side note: Why can't my gym add 1 more row of down climb holds to every wall?? Two do not get me close enough to the ground! 2) I'm wondering if this needs to be approached any differently for those of us who are older or have joint problems (mainly in regard to bouldering). I'm not that old (33), but I have hypermobile joints (especially my hips), so I worry I'll land wrong and dislocate a hip or something, even with a fall that might be fine for most people. But I'm not sure how much of that anxiety is justified and how much is just an excuse to not push myself harder. Especially because, while I've had a number of climbing injuries, NONE of them are related to falls. I've had some awkward landings that didn't feel very good, but nothing that caused lasting harm. Yet it's still falling that scares me most. 3) When I top rope consistently, my fear regarding "less secure" bouldering moves definitely decreases. On top rope, I can remind myself of the sort of moves my body is capable of and then I'm not as worried when I encounter similar moves on the bouldering wall. Unfortunately I seem to alternate between only bouldering and only top roping - I never manage to balance the two - so I don't benefit as much from this effect as I could. 4) I don't have much lead experience yet, but anxiety has definitely held me back from trying it more. What I can say with certainty, though, is I'm WAYYYY more nervous about lead belaying than I am about lead climbing! Hopefully that's helpful in some way and not just a boring wall of text. Honestly, I'll be happy for any advice you can give that might finally help me. 3 years climbing and I'm basically as scared as when I started.
@@BigShelley Wow thank you so much for opening up! I find all of this super interesting and I'd love to get deeper into this! Let's go with order: For the all-encompassing anxiety, I will try to give some basic psychotherapy knowledge and techniques that should help. Of course they are applied to climbing, but can be applied to anything else. Hopefully it will help. Anxiety can really decrease the quality of life in a really subtle way. I can suggest you a book from Albert Ellis called "control your anxiety before it controls you". Is the one I showed in the library in the video. Albert Ellis is the father of the predecessor of the scientifically golden-standard treatment for anxiety (better than any medication as well). His approach is more simple to the actual version of this treatment (which is CBT) but is very effective, powerful, easy to communicate and to apply. I'll go through these more "up to date" therapies in videos as well. But it will take some time. 1) This is a great case study! Might make an episode on this specifically! 2) Being the boulder responsible of my gym I can say that we don't even have safety jugs, sigh. But I'm working on it. Try asking to the staff if there's any possibility of adding additional holds, they might take it into consideration and you are not the only one with this issue. Also, consider that there are exercises that you could do for your hypermobility! Certainly the anxiety doesn't help, but why not working on both aspects at the same time? 3) I find this very fun because I have the opposite experience. The more I get comfortable on a rope, the less I feel on the mats. Might simply be because it means that I'm bouldering less. But your case makes a lot of sense! Your brain is gathering info on what is your limit! 4) Fear of lead belay is so underrated!!! I'll totally do an episode on that as well! Thank you again so much, your comment was full of insights! And thank you for the support!
@@AllegraClimbingPsychologist I have generalized anxiety disorder too, so I will definitely see if my library has a copy of that book or buy it if I need to! And you have officially convinced me to bring up the idea of adding more down climb jugs at my gym. I know the gym manager quite well at this point, so I think she will take the suggestion seriously. I do some exercises for my hypermobile hips because my doctor believes that is a major contributor to my pelvic pain (pelvic muscles overcompensating for loose joints). I see both my PT and my yoga instructor (who is also a PT) tomorrow, so maybe I will ask for some more relevant exercises for my most problematic joints. I've also noticed the women I climb with almost always down climb at least partially, whereas the men are much more likely to jump down from the top (unless they are down-climbing the boulder for training purposes). I have to wonder if this disparity is more psychological or biological (differences in bone/joint strength). Thanks for the response! I'm really looking forward to this video series.
@@BigShelley I see. Well, that book was developed for GAD specifically, so it should be at least of some help. It's not the usual self-help book, it's the result of 50 years of experience in psychotherapy. I think everyone should read it honestly, that's why I put it in front of all the others 🤣. Absolutely ask for the jugs if you can! It's not gonna damage you in any way :) About the tendency to jump down, I think there's not enough evidence to show that downclimbing protects joins, but a lot of people are complaining for sure about joint pain when falling for sure. There is definitely a gender difference here (men are more risk prone than women) but men are also more likely to get injured. Hope that your conditions will improve and for you to be healthy and happy! I'll do my best to help at least a bit to improve enjoyment when climbing 🥰
So interesting! I can relate to your friend, lead climbing is so much more anxiety inducing 😅 also lead belaying makes me so anxious haha I'm looking forward to this series :)
Nice channel. Found you via a comment in one of Ondra's videos =) Looking forward to hear more. Last week I caught myself much relieved when it started to rain during the approach of a long route =) This anxiety kill me...
What to recommend depends on the situation of the person: the type of fear, the level of activation, they type of cognitions. Exposure therapy is the golden standard for treatment of phobias as well, but must be used properly. Finally, for climbing it's also important that in some cases you don't do exposure therapy but fear management techniques.
What do you recommend reading/listening to after this book? I have a fear of falling when climbing especially with auto belay and bouldering. I also feel anxious when scrambling or even hiking in very exposed mountainous terrain such as ridges with drops on either side. I'm not sure if the fear of falling in climbing is related to the awkward feeling and fear of exposure in the mountains
@@bilaltahir9978 they are totally related! Both levels of activation depends on the perceived threat. I can suggest to go through my whole playlist of videos, you will find useful tips and exercises. Because even though books are super helpful, you need different levels of contact with your fearful stimulus. And of course, the last resort is always coaching so that you can have a personalized plan!
I don’t fear falling, it is hitting something on the way down and or the gear holding that I fear. There is the old joke, it’s not falling that kills you it’s the stopping .
Yes! It's all the evaluations of the possible threaths for our well-being that makes us feel that way! And in some cases (lead climbing, trad, free solo etc) those risks are very well possible (even probable). Managing risks and expectations is the hardest part!
Yes! Looking forward to this series. I am lucky to be quite good at managing fear of falling, but I'd love to learn how to properly teach others to get comfortable with it.
Thank you! I'm glad! I also talk about how to help friends with their fears. Hopefully it will be useful. And thank you so much for the consistent support, Edo! ❤️
I never recognized myself in what people usually describes as their fear of falling, mostly because they end up by being able to do it even if they don’t like it. This is the first time I am thinking « finally someone describes what I feel », I am happy I can put a word on it: I am definitely anxious about the whole idea of leading. It feels ondeed already like a huge progress for me. Thank you. I can’t wait to learn how I can work on it.
This makes me so happy!
That was interesting! Specially the example about your friend. Looking forward to the next episodes!
Thank you! I hope I'll be able to bring more and more examples!
Is there anything in particular you'd like me to talk about? 🙌
My anxiety related to falling is so... all-encompassing... I'm not even sure which specific things would be helpful for me to learn about. So I don't really have any specific questions, but I do have a few thoughts.
1) I've noticed when I fall unexpectedly while bouldering, I *usually* land without any issues. If I need to jump down, I'm much more likely to land strangely because I overthink it. For the most part my body knows how to fall, but I don't trust my body to get it right when it counts. I did gymnastics for 10 years, starting very young, so proper falling technique is probably quite ingrained in my muscle memory. But it's been nearly 20 years since I stopped doing gymnastics and I've lost the trust I used to have in my body.
Side note: Why can't my gym add 1 more row of down climb holds to every wall?? Two do not get me close enough to the ground!
2) I'm wondering if this needs to be approached any differently for those of us who are older or have joint problems (mainly in regard to bouldering). I'm not that old (33), but I have hypermobile joints (especially my hips), so I worry I'll land wrong and dislocate a hip or something, even with a fall that might be fine for most people. But I'm not sure how much of that anxiety is justified and how much is just an excuse to not push myself harder. Especially because, while I've had a number of climbing injuries, NONE of them are related to falls. I've had some awkward landings that didn't feel very good, but nothing that caused lasting harm. Yet it's still falling that scares me most.
3) When I top rope consistently, my fear regarding "less secure" bouldering moves definitely decreases. On top rope, I can remind myself of the sort of moves my body is capable of and then I'm not as worried when I encounter similar moves on the bouldering wall. Unfortunately I seem to alternate between only bouldering and only top roping - I never manage to balance the two - so I don't benefit as much from this effect as I could.
4) I don't have much lead experience yet, but anxiety has definitely held me back from trying it more. What I can say with certainty, though, is I'm WAYYYY more nervous about lead belaying than I am about lead climbing!
Hopefully that's helpful in some way and not just a boring wall of text. Honestly, I'll be happy for any advice you can give that might finally help me. 3 years climbing and I'm basically as scared as when I started.
@@BigShelley Wow thank you so much for opening up! I find all of this super interesting and I'd love to get deeper into this! Let's go with order:
For the all-encompassing anxiety, I will try to give some basic psychotherapy knowledge and techniques that should help. Of course they are applied to climbing, but can be applied to anything else. Hopefully it will help. Anxiety can really decrease the quality of life in a really subtle way.
I can suggest you a book from Albert Ellis called "control your anxiety before it controls you". Is the one I showed in the library in the video. Albert Ellis is the father of the predecessor of the scientifically golden-standard treatment for anxiety (better than any medication as well). His approach is more simple to the actual version of this treatment (which is CBT) but is very effective, powerful, easy to communicate and to apply. I'll go through these more "up to date" therapies in videos as well. But it will take some time.
1) This is a great case study! Might make an episode on this specifically!
2) Being the boulder responsible of my gym I can say that we don't even have safety jugs, sigh. But I'm working on it. Try asking to the staff if there's any possibility of adding additional holds, they might take it into consideration and you are not the only one with this issue. Also, consider that there are exercises that you could do for your hypermobility! Certainly the anxiety doesn't help, but why not working on both aspects at the same time?
3) I find this very fun because I have the opposite experience. The more I get comfortable on a rope, the less I feel on the mats. Might simply be because it means that I'm bouldering less. But your case makes a lot of sense! Your brain is gathering info on what is your limit!
4) Fear of lead belay is so underrated!!! I'll totally do an episode on that as well!
Thank you again so much, your comment was full of insights! And thank you for the support!
@@AllegraClimbingPsychologist I have generalized anxiety disorder too, so I will definitely see if my library has a copy of that book or buy it if I need to! And you have officially convinced me to bring up the idea of adding more down climb jugs at my gym. I know the gym manager quite well at this point, so I think she will take the suggestion seriously. I do some exercises for my hypermobile hips because my doctor believes that is a major contributor to my pelvic pain (pelvic muscles overcompensating for loose joints). I see both my PT and my yoga instructor (who is also a PT) tomorrow, so maybe I will ask for some more relevant exercises for my most problematic joints.
I've also noticed the women I climb with almost always down climb at least partially, whereas the men are much more likely to jump down from the top (unless they are down-climbing the boulder for training purposes). I have to wonder if this disparity is more psychological or biological (differences in bone/joint strength).
Thanks for the response! I'm really looking forward to this video series.
@@BigShelley I see. Well, that book was developed for GAD specifically, so it should be at least of some help. It's not the usual self-help book, it's the result of 50 years of experience in psychotherapy. I think everyone should read it honestly, that's why I put it in front of all the others 🤣.
Absolutely ask for the jugs if you can! It's not gonna damage you in any way :)
About the tendency to jump down, I think there's not enough evidence to show that downclimbing protects joins, but a lot of people are complaining for sure about joint pain when falling for sure. There is definitely a gender difference here (men are more risk prone than women) but men are also more likely to get injured.
Hope that your conditions will improve and for you to be healthy and happy! I'll do my best to help at least a bit to improve enjoyment when climbing 🥰
So interesting! I can relate to your friend, lead climbing is so much more anxiety inducing 😅 also lead belaying makes me so anxious haha
I'm looking forward to this series :)
Lead belaying will have a dedicated episode! 💪
Nice channel. Found you via a comment in one of Ondra's videos =) Looking forward to hear more. Last week I caught myself much relieved when it started to rain during the approach of a long route =) This anxiety kill me...
Thank you! Definitely performance anxiety be have it's own series! 💪
cool, i was waiting for this episode :) thx
I'm super happy! ❤️
For me, it's both fear and anxiety XD
we can work on both! 💪
Do you recommend exposure therapy to cure the fear of falling in climbing?
What to recommend depends on the situation of the person: the type of fear, the level of activation, they type of cognitions. Exposure therapy is the golden standard for treatment of phobias as well, but must be used properly. Finally, for climbing it's also important that in some cases you don't do exposure therapy but fear management techniques.
Are they any audiobooks or audio phycotherapy they you recommend listening too?
Yes! I highly suggest to read/listen to "How to control your Anxiety" from Albert Ellis!
@@AllegraClimbingPsychologist many thanks. Will listen to it.
What do you recommend reading/listening to after this book? I have a fear of falling when climbing especially with auto belay and bouldering. I also feel anxious when scrambling or even hiking in very exposed mountainous terrain such as ridges with drops on either side. I'm not sure if the fear of falling in climbing is related to the awkward feeling and fear of exposure in the mountains
@@bilaltahir9978 they are totally related! Both levels of activation depends on the perceived threat. I can suggest to go through my whole playlist of videos, you will find useful tips and exercises. Because even though books are super helpful, you need different levels of contact with your fearful stimulus.
And of course, the last resort is always coaching so that you can have a personalized plan!
I don’t fear falling, it is hitting something on the way down and or the gear holding that I fear. There is the old joke, it’s not falling that kills you it’s the stopping .
Yes! It's all the evaluations of the possible threaths for our well-being that makes us feel that way!
And in some cases (lead climbing, trad, free solo etc) those risks are very well possible (even probable). Managing risks and expectations is the hardest part!