Did Custer Commit Suicide?
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2023
- Information from an old and forgotten history magazine provided potentially credible evidence that Col. Custer may have taken his own life at the Little Big Horn. Could this have happened? Corroborating historical documentation substantiates the claims of the story and indicates the possibility of a Custer suicide is not beyond reasonable thought. We may never know for sure, but the Custer suicide discussion gives us a lot to consider as we wait out another below zero cold snap in Montana while looking forward to warmer days at the range.
Thumbnail:
Custer Photo: Mathew Benjamin Brady, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Colt Model 1877: Hmaag, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Custer Massacre At Big Horn, Montana June 25 1876: Werner Co., Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Video:
Dr. Henry Porter: David Francis Barry, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
General Crook: U.S. Army Photo, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
George Custer: Mathew Benjamin Brady, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Reno's Crossing: David Francis Barry, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Reno Hill: David Francis Barry, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Colt 1877 and SAA: Hmaag, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
.41 Long Cartridge: Undefined, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Remington Single Barrel: Undefined, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Remington Derringer o/u: Undefined, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Fetterman Massacre 1: Harper's Weekly, v. 11, no. 534 (1867 March 23), p. 180., Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Captain William Fetterman: J. B. Lippincott, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Fetterman Massacre 2: Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Henry B. Carrington: www.philkearny.vcn.com, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Fort Phillip Kearney: Mike Cline, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Wagon Box 1 Good Marksmanship and Guts: DA Poster 21-45, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Wagon Box 2: Copyrighted free use, via Wikimedia Commons
Elizabeth Bacon Custer: Mathew Benjamin Brady Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
I have seen old photos of what some tribes done to people while they were still alive and I see suicide a very real possibility.
LMAO!!!! Then show those pictures. Had to been from the 1870's on back.
@@daryllebeau4333 Daguerreotypes have existed since the 1840's. Photography is not as recent of an invention as some might think
@@garymills562You're right,, in southwest Minnesota the Sioux went on the warpath and horribly s assaulted children and women, tortured people, cut them up, all sorts of hideous stuff... But this was after the band had been given moldy grain and rotten beef, they were basically starving and they went and tried to ask for food and were violently refused.... So in a way I agree with all the native men being killed in the ensuing military action and the entire band being marched off to South Dakota but at the same time, I can't make that recommendation without doing the same thing to the company that was supposed to supply the food, running them down and hunting them and basically giving them the same hard time they were giving the natives...... I mean isn't turnabout fair play? And the people at the Territorial government, and the people who didn't supply the food, all sorts of stuff but obviously endless vendetta gets no one anywhere and learning from the incident is what's important......
@@daryllebeau4333 There were so many photos ghosted on glass from those old cameras that had the class slide in-between the tin type photo that people would buy the "useless" glass and it was so cheap that all over the country greenhouses started popping up that on each glass pane you had a picture of a solder or a bloody field hospital or the actual battle just ghost printed on the glass, after time in the sun this ghost on the glass would fade so much it would with a little age just look like a normal green house. The U.S Civil War if you do not count video is one of the most photographed wars because of the easy access for private photographers and all the newspapers and just curious observers. Photos are old old, older than people think 1816 was the first made and by the 1820's the upper classes could afford to get a sitting photo and by the 1840-50's it was so cheap the poorest of people could at least afford a family photo, by the 1860's it was super cheap note every U.S/C.S solder made a tin type for their mother or special lady.
The Blackfoot would do things like skin people alive, or tie them down and cover them with honey and then let fire ants eat them alive. With John Colter they stripped him naked and made him run for his life while they had a turkey chase with him.
But no, you didn't see any pictures of it, and yes, mountain men and soldiers would unalive themselves to avoid being captured depending on the reputation of the tribe they were up against.
This is the first time I've watched a video from this site & I want to applaud the host for presentation of the story. No hype or showboating or yelling at the camera to draw attention to himself AND distract from the story. Well done indeed!
George, Thank you for watching and for your kinds words. Todd
The first time I heard anyone say that Custer had killed himself was when I was serving in the Marine Corps in 1973 with a young Souix from Canonball, ND. He and I were close friends. His great grandfather had fought at the Little Big Horn. Chuck didn't want to tell me for a long time because he figured no causcasion would believe him because Custer was so romantizied and revered. He told me that his ancestor had witnessed the incident. That there was a small group of soilders still fighting, Custer was standing and looking as if he were in shock and disbelief. He put the pistol to his head and pulled the trigger. He was not the last man to fall, and he did not die fighting. I was stunned by the story when Chuck told me, but I could see it clearly in my mind. I tend to believe it.
Some people will believe anything they’re told .
Wow, 1973 isn’t really that far removed time wise. And, that’s not a small detail that could get twisted over time.
Custer kill himself ????,,nah,,,surrounded by hostiles,,,his troops totally discombobulated,,,,,scattered ,,running,,,dead,,,,only a portion of men left,,,seasoned officers and first sargents cut down,,,,the enemy remembering Washita,,,,,,,thats not Errol Flynn......could anyone blame him.......??......Anyone else wonder why Hollywood does not make a movie with all the grit and realism they now put in films?....Re-made Alamo back in 04...Seems Custer fight should be ripe....
Great story! Thanks for sharing it. 😊
He was shot through the Torso at the River , brother Tom took him up to Last Stand Hill and when the Indians closed in shot Custer through the Left Temple , neither made it to Deep Ravine. Custer's 2 Relations died there with him , a Steamboat went down the Missouri with the wounded and arrived at Ft Lincoln 3 weeks later . Many of Custer's Command Families lived there.
I thought that I had heard just about everything regarding Custer at the Little Bighorn, but this was news to me. Although, I had always thought it odd that Custer died from a headshot in the temple. Thank you for the insightful investigation and thank you for sharing!
I'd often thought that Custer had killed himself. The first article you read pretty much summed up my own view. And Custer wasn't the only one to do so. Nice video. Very informative and respectful.
He was also shot twice in the left side of his lungs which would have killed him. Whenever they saw the headshot wound they assumed it was done afterwards. The natives said he shot himself and they also said a native stabbed him to death
He probably shot himself and order his men to shoot him just to be sure
Committing Suicide was the only good decision he made that day! Great job Todd! As a 1st grader I was fascinated by the famous painting and battle! Still am!
Your ignorance is astounding!!! The Indians would not engage unless they thought they could win. Custer was told there's only a few hundred Indians so he brought a force just big enough to get them to engage but still win. In reality he was unaware how many thousands of Indians were there. Of course, I guess he wasn't an expert like you are!!!
I agree!
what a fascinating story. it is amazing how the little details can come together to reveal this story to the world. not only in terms of the article, but that you thought to create a video out of it and that different people chose to view it and take it seriously. If no one watched this video the story could very well have been forgotten.
"When, in the roaring charge of fierce melee, you stop a bullet clean, and the hostiles come to take your scalp, just empty your canteen...and put your pistol to your head, and go to Fiddler's Green."
This is one of the best presentations I have seen for a historical topic. I love it. You have a new fan.
If you like milquetoast fence-sitting takes on topics that were settled a hundred and fifty years ago by historians and experts in the field, this is a great channel.
The fact is the entry wound to Custer's temple was evidence enough at the time to conclude that he likely Epsteined himself (or had one of his officers do it). The channel host is correct on why it wasn't reported on, but this has been a settled mattered since the day it happened. Apparently only recently has this been dredged up because it looks like manufactured controversy generates clicks.
Good video. I really enjoyed listening to your breakdown on it. You stick to relevant topics and sources. Thank you for sharing.
Wow, that makes sense. Never thought of it. Nothing against Custer, but he was known to be flamboyant, narcissistic to a fault and somewhat of a dandy in his attire and his looks. I could understand his not wanting to be captured and possibly tortured or even mutilated. He was probably of the opinion of what we would say today, "live fast, play hard and leave a good looking corpse!"
I like your way of thinking to verify, layered and specific, very good unbiased discussion on potentials and possibles, when they all start hitting together the facts and possibles self verify it seems
Your thought process and methods on this are so historically sound. Start with primary sources, assess the credibility of those sources, look for confirmed examples of comparable events, and determine the overall plausibility. Fascinating thesis. You earned a sub.
You said exactly what I wanted to say, and you said it better than I could and you said it first!
I too was impressed and subscribed to this particularly impressive channel.
He’d have been smart if he did. Getting caught by American Indians to be tortured to death is about as bad if a fate as anyone could ever face.
Actually, his reasoning isn't sound at all. He didn't use primary sources. Those aren't Dr. Porter's words. It's the account Bigelow Neil claims Dr. Porter told him. While Mr. Kesner makes some effort to establish Dr. Porter's credibility, he ignores the credibility of his source, which is Bigelow Neil, not Dr. Porter. It seems unlikely to begin with that Dr. Porter would entrust this information, which couldn't be shared while Mrs. Custer was alive, with a 14-year-old boy. Also, the details of Mr. Bigelow's story are at odds with many already well-established accounts. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and no extraordinary evidence is presented here. Mr. Kesner's methodology and reasoning are flawed.
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@@felixcat9318 in the painting I have...Custer was holding a pistol that would match the one you mentioned...just sayin'....
Saving the last round for yourself was not uncommon in situations where the enemy were well known to torture captives to death. And that was not just in North America.
Thank you for such a well researched video. Also, what good luck to be mailed those magazines.
GENUINELY good historical info, as well as good RUclips content Subscribed!
I want to thank you for an extremely interesting and informative subject. Keep up the good work
My Dad owned a Colt Thunderer in 41 Colt. We weren't allowed to shoot it because ammo was no longer made for it and it was a fragile firearm easly broken. My Dad had a lot if old firearms he got me interested in shooting and reloading he was a big fan of the old west. He was born 15 Oct 1903 and a young man in the 1920s when these old guns were still in use.
Fascinating story. What worries me is the doc said the bullet fit perfectly with the diameter of his pistol. No deformation has me worried but i know old lead bullets were very hard, had something like arsenic added to the lead as a hardening agent. Its a plausible story. On the con side skulls are hard on bullets and i dont have enough info on how those bullets would present after such a situation.
I’m about to turn 60 in May so as they say my race is about finished . My gran was born about 1866 after the war of yankee aggression so he did fight some N.A. In Texas and New Mexico and Arizona maybe even some places higher like Colorado Montana punching cows . I remember my dad saying he always told him in fight that always save the last one for yourself . It’s wasn’t like the silly people think with revisionist history that they could throw up their hands an surrender an the noble appoint would treat good . Chances if they did that you would of lost two important things from your body an they would have raped them as they were no longer considered a man . That’s just the way it was .
@@bjmartin5225 I believe the thing that gets lost to "revisionist history" as you say is that, I don't like the word savages but let's say a very non-european culture. I'm part Native American so I completely understand that you desecrated an enemy because that's how he entered the afterlife. Being deceased was not a prerequisite to gouge out eyes and chop of body parts so that he couldn't find you in "the great beyond" and exact his revenge. These "Woke" people have no concept that both sides were aggressive towards each other for a multitude of reasons but as Sherman said "War is Hell".
Billy The Kid/Kid Antrim/William H. Bonney (your choice) had a .41 Thunderer that he kept as what would now call his CCW/back up gun.
I have a thunderer and yeah ammo is not easy to get. If you reload its not so bad. But the 1877 being fragile. its no where near as fragile as people make it sound. The biggest problem is the trigger spring. If you just replace it with a new one. you wont have any real problems. I did a video on who fragile the action is. with all new springs i put snap caps in it and ran it over a few months. i got over 12,000 trigger pulls. the trigger spring started to fail. But its a eazy 2 min fix and the gun is still working perfectly.
Thank you very much for making this. It is definitely food for thought.
Thanks for watching, Todd
Very interesting video; thank you for taking the time to do the research and present it! 👍
I have long heard that many of Custer's men took their own lives, rather than be captured by the Sioux or Cheyenne Indians. Firstly, many of the soldiers were very young and likely never faced a foe like the one they saw that day. They were probably aware of the fate that previous prisoners faced, if captured. It's hard to blame any of these guys (including Custer) if they did commit suicide.
It's a story told to lessen the effects of the battle that most of the recruits were green. Less than half of them were new recruits, doesn't sound as bad of a defeat when you say only new soldiers were there. In fact most of them already had experience fighting. Custer had what 7 companies with him?? About 3 of those companies were the new guys. Very common to make your enemies victory over you look not that bad. The new recruits had experience fighting in the civil war, the older crew had experience fighting both in the civil war and the war with my people the Sioux (I'm a Dakota, related to people who were at the battle). It was also done by the people who didn't like Custer to make him look stupid. Thus his defeat was because he has new recruits with him, they just couldn't accept that Custer was beaten so easily. And they are many factors at play that gave us the win that day. A group of warriors took up a suicide pact to fight to the death. Their final suicidal charge is what broke the defenses on last stand hill. Had that not happened the battle as we know it today wouldn't look like a one sided massacre. When they broke the defenses the other warriors all hit the point that got broken and that's when the described buffalo run happened. There was violent hand to hand fighting, the attack gave the soldiers no time to reload their weapons. You have 1000+ warriors follow a suicidal attack of 24 warriors who just start doing whatever they can do kill anything. If not for that charge from the suicide warriors we would have at least half of the men on last stand hill survive.
Custer was not well liked by Reno, Benteen, and general Crook. They had every reason to make Custer look bad, yes it was a short and violent fight, some men managed to shoot themselves. Others fought to the very end, others made a run for deep ravine. Which 28 of these men did reach but they ended up running into more warriors. Some men were scared, but they fought like demons. It was bitch ass Reno and Benteen say that Custer and his men got beaten so easy due to green soldiers. And the mutilations it was cause the soldiers were scared, all the brave men were left alone. Yup even though they fought they will got scalped if we thought you weren't brave. Most of the men were mutilated, most of the work done by the women and children. How do I feel saying all this?? Makes me really wish things went different between our people. It feels ugly inside to know what was done to us and what we done to you. No he said she said shit, I don't care who started it first. What can we do moving forward so we don't go through some bullshit like this again? But that's some view of the battle coming from our side. And fyi Custer was shot at Fjord B under the left breast area. He was dying during the fight on last stand hill, he had to have been shot by his own people before the fight was over. Cause Custer's Cheyenne relatives found him first, they said his head was still bleeding. So he had to have been shot while still alive.
All this happened in a time frame of 30 mins to 45 mins, pure chaos is what happened that day. The fight was described as over as quickly as a man can eat lunch.
Most of the 7th Calvary were foreign, non-English speaking recruits. Had Custer survived this battle, he would have been courtcourt-martialed again, for disobeying orders.
Better than being skinned and roasted. That happened to soldiers going into Ohio the previous century including one of George Washington's friends
This was EXCELLENT ! ! ! I'm so happy I came across your channel today, I always loved the history of the 'old West' and reading about the 'Battle of the Little Bighorn'. I often thought Custer could of taken his life with that last group of his troops. Again this was EXCELLENT ! ! !
Had a well read of the Indian War military history professor. His take on the army officers of the time was refusing to be taken alive by the natives was common and accepted
Thank you so much for this. I'm from the UK but have always been fascinated by Custer and Lifeguardsman Shaw at Waterloo. This was a perfectly researched and presented video.
This story about Custer sounds very believable, to where it took a lot of courage on your part for you to give it out to all of us!! Thank You for sharing this story with us!!! It was much appreciated, I have seen one of those thunders before, to where I do have two of those lightnings, still.
This was very credible information. Thanks for sharing.
Everything I’ve ever read, says the wound was through the chest near the heart, not high on the shoulder… The only other wounds were the left temple shot with powder burns, punctured ears and a missing finger… At any rate “Libby” Custer would have never allowed a suicide story to gain any traction while she was alive anyway…
Your account is exactly what I have read...
Libby would be very upset, especially if the suicide would jeopardise Custers' state of grace.
Anyone with common sense would have known the suicide story is pure hog wash.
A arrow was shoved into his penis tom Custer was so mutilated all that could be identified was a tattoo on section of arm
Great story & show. Also neat to see you have the Time-Life western series on your shelf. I have those as well and re-read them often. All the best.
Very nice gathering of historical information regarding these events.
New sub...thx
Nice Job Doc! Very Entertaining, Informative & Educational. Thanks Again. 👍
Very well done! Out takes are GREAT! New sub
Very interesting and informative. I tend to believe the good Doctor had no reason to lie or that Custer would have wanted to be taken alive.
Wonderful presentation! I live in Billings-been at the battlefield many. many times. My long-lost cousin 1st Sgt Michael Kenney, of F Troop, died right below Custer on the hill.
Back in the 1980's I read a long article about the Army sending a detachment out to the Little Big Horn battlefield to retrieve the soldiers bodies and it mentioned that soldiers in the detachment reported that Custer's body had a powder burn on his temple. The articled posed the question as to whether Custer took his own life or one of the other soldiers shot him - not necessarily out of malice, but, because Custer may have been wounded to the point where he couldn't do it himself.
Speculation was his brother shot GAC in the temple.
@Scandals, the Unusual & Unsolved Crimes maybe his left shoulder was shot so had to use his right.
According to Indians, I read that Custer was wounded in the shoulder and fell off his horse when they tried to cross the Little Bighorn river and was picked up and put back on his horse and taken to Last Stand Hill, so he may have been shot by someone else!!!!
That would be another source worth tracking down as it was evidence from contemporary testimony and may have leads to evidence realvent to history.
Same thing could happen if he was restrained and shot at close range with his gun by someone else.
Shot placement, angle, powder burns, powder residue and stippling are often able to determine if it was self inflicted or not.
This was brilliant. Many thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Very interesting video! I have read a lot about Custer and the events leading up to the battle of the Little Bighorn but have never heard or considered a suicide angle. You have presented a very plausible scenario and with what must have been a very daunting situation, several thousand Indian braves against a couple of hundred soldiers, knowing you were facing certain death.
Out of interest how about the Zulu warriors against the British at Rorkes Drift 1879, 4000 Zulus against 150 British. There’s a 1964 film Zulu with some inaccurates, and hype, but tells the basic story well. Very watchable.
I've been following this moment in history most of my life and I had read before that some other troopers committed suicide that day. I enjoyed watching your insight and theory. I believe there is a lot of credibility to your thoughts on this
Fascinating story, thanks for sharing. This sparked memories of my grandfather talking about the possibility, when I was a kid growing up in the 50's. He was born around the Moscow, Idaho area in 1889 and had tons of old stories. I don't remember him having the .41 Colt piece of the puzzle. I always thought it was a fabricated story because my grandfather had a huge dislike & distrust for the US Army and white folk in general. This magazine article certainly lends some credit to the story's credibility. Thanks again for covering the topic.
Thanks for commenting. I am happy to hear that you recall stories from your grandfather. A lot of kids won't listen to their elders. Like you, I did and I'm better off for it. Thanks again, Todd.
Supposedly it was his left temple so if he was right handed and shot in his right shoulder he might have shot himself with his left hand
Thanks for posting. I enjoyed it.
Very interesting video, very well organized around the main three questions ... thanks 👏👏👏
thanks Todd, great story and thanks for sharing. This makes a lot of sense. It is not a new hypothesis that Custer may have taken his own life. Given the enduring interest and fascination pertaining to the Battle of the Little Bighorn it should get wider recognition than it does. One way of gaining more insights into this matter might be by forensically examining Custer's skull. Had he placed the gun snug to his temple and pulled the trigger, the projectile should have caused an exit wound.
Excellent research and deduction. Add to this the historical facts of torture and your thesis makes perfect sense. If we could travel back in time and witness how these types of things really happened, we probably couldn't stand to watch another Hollywood production again.
Great video I enjoyed it very much so glad I found your site 😁
Thank you!. I had never heard that about Custer and the Little Big Horn and it seems like there's some good evidence to support it. Appreciate your excellent sleuthing work!
Another great video and extremely interesting facts presented. As one familiar with combat, I find no disgrace in this action, especially in light of the probability of torture from such an enemy. No judgement of either side from me.
I agree, I’d probably do the same. There are worse things than death.
@@jimbob465 This makes zero sense..."might not...absolutely were .
Been shot twice 9 years army veteran suicide never an option
@@onearnedbandit were you scalped ?
@@johngriffiths118 dead men don't care only cowards do
I don't believe Custer committed suicide, I think he thought that he and his troops could win the battle right to the very end. I think it's possible that his brother (Thomas) could have shot him. There's a reference to Dr. Porter examining the bullet in Custers head, there was no autopsy and Custers remains were only retrieved a year later and very few (and disputable) remains at that.
LMAO!!!!! Coward shot himself.
I LOVE these kind of stories, and if you have more, it would be awesome if you made more of this kind of videos.
You make a pretty convincing argument that makes sense. However, having written quite a few history research papers in college courses, i know how easily it is to write a paper to make a convincing case for a position, I've often noticed that an argument could easily be made with the available information bringing out the other side. Great video.
Part of what makes the little bighorn battle so interesting to me, is the large amounts of claims that don't collaborate.
None of the survivors had any reason to tell the whole truth, because the folks on the US side were trying to save their own hides, and plus the lack of any survivors of the last stand battle, would have made it pretty easy for the survivors to not have to defend their claims.
And on the Indian side, they had every reason to gloat and they had so many differing accounts.
I would love to know if the Dr ever shared more detail of exactly how he found the condition of Custer, besides the story he told, because I think it would paint a more accurate picture.
He described the shoulder would as non lethal, which wouldn't make him fall from the saddle in my opinion considering the lack of power the repeating rifles the Indians were using, and I wouldn't expect it to affect a fighter of his caliber during the heat of battle from still being in charge of the battle.
If he was hit right above the heart as others claimed, that theory would seem much more plausible, and I don't know the mortality of such a hit with the rifles being used, but if it would have been enough to take him out of the battle, I would certainly think that would have had to be a mortal wound, which the Doc said wasn't the case.
I would give more credence to the Dr's claims because he was the expert on such things, but either way both claims can't be true.
It would also be interesting to know the exact damage caused by the head wound.
I might have missed it, but did he find the bullet inside the skull? Or, did it exit? From what I understand about bullet design, pointy bullets seldom penitrate in a straight line, and would probably for sure have bounced around in the skull without exiting for sure with the rimfire version, where possibly extra velocity from a center fire version could have created a different result possibly, but maybe that version wouldn't have had any more power. In any case makes me wish more info was available. Very interesting no matter what the truth is.
Thanks Eric, There are so many different accounts, it is impossible to know what really happened. In that kind of chaos, everyone could have a different perspective. I like your point about a convincing argument. It all sounds good until you hear a rival story and start to doubt the first story. Dr. Porter said the bullet was under the skin just outside the skull. Thanks for watching, Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 It's interesting where he found the bullet. A person could actually try a test and figure out pretty close to the actual velocity. I have no idea if research would produce accurate enough results to know if it was shot from a rimfire or a more powerful centerfire or not, but either way it would be very expensive.
Yah I can't imagine the amount of dust and smoke involved, so it's not suprising people would have such different points of view.
But you would think people could agree where he was previously shot, but it was probably very hot and the smell probably led most of the non dr kind of people in the early aftermath to want to hurry up and get out of there.
Nice bit of detective work Dr. Thank you.
One author claimed that Tom Custer had a smaller caliber pistol and when the end was inevitable, he shot his brother who had previously POSSIBLY been wounded at the Medicine tail crossing and was already dying being unable to order any kind of troop deployment ,which might explain why Benteen , when viewing the battlefield concluded that it was " an utter rout". No reference was made to a .41 caliber pistol. Custer was said to have carried 9-shot twin British Bulldog short barreled revolvers which of course, were never found.
according to the Souix Tom was the last one standing and was killed by a Cheyenne to revenge the Washita and Sandcreek masseurs of the unarmed Blackkettle villages
It has been many years since College but I also did a paper on the massacre of Custer. I also heard that Boston had a smaller caliber pistol to now makes me think George let his brother use it. If that is the case and Custer was hit maybe Boston did the shooting to save the glory of the last stand.
And no casings were found either from the British gun anywhere
Custer was also mutilated but this was kept a secret until the 1920s in order to protect his widow. This info comes the book A Tragic Glory.
Correct. Died a terrible painful death and no he didn’t commit suicide. The Indians stood their ground and massacred them all. Nothing left of his body to determine suicide and they shoved an arrow up his penis.
A fascinating account. Thanks for sharing. I love your collection of The Old West books by Time Life books. I only have The Indians one, fabulous book. Full set looks great on the shelves behind you.
I haven't read a bad one yet. Thanks for commenting, Todd
Thanks for the fantastic video. Educational, very investigative and not trying to force stuff to fit a narrative. A+++
Credible historic inquiry. Thank God, and found it on RUclips. Thanks for your thoughts.
Fascinating. I’ve never heard this theory before, although it sounds very plausible.
Had to subscribe after watching this video! Nicely done.
Great video and I am now a subscriber to your channel. One respectful suggestion--at 8:49, it sounds like you said "Calvary" when you meant "Cavalry." I'm pretty sure this was just a slip of the tongue, but there is a huge difference between the meaning of these two very similar sounding words, as I'm certain you know. Thanks again and please keep up the great work!
Craig, It was Sunday afternoon following church. Maybe the morning service was still with me. I probably did slip up. Thanks for watching, Todd
I read an account by a native who was at the battle who mentioned the soldiers shooting themselves and he put it down to the 'medicine' of the Lakota making them do it. In a way he is right, because we could interpret the natives fearful torture methods, instilling terrible fear, as a psychological medicine that the soldiers carried in their minds during a battle. Very interesting video.
Great take on this. Terror was indeed a tactic and it worked. Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 …. They had reason to be terrified. The average warrior greatly outmatched the fighting abilities of the average soldier. The Army’s tactic was to lay down volley fire and aimed shots at distance. Beyond the weapons range of the natives. The army revolvers were issued as back up weapons. Letting the warriors get that close in would be fatal
After visiting the Sandcreek Massacre site in Colorado, I wonder who really was scared of torture/atrocities. The Natives certainly had reason to believe the US soldiers were capable of barbarism after Sandcreek and then the burning of the Cheyenne/Lakota village by Gen. Hancock(Custer was there too, attempting to chase down the fleeing women/children) near Ft. Larned in 1867 starting the Hancock War. Were the soldiers fearful that the Natives would do to them what other soldiers had already done to women/children of the Cheyenne/Lakota/Arapaho? Would be interested to know what came first-'white barbarism' or Native 'savagery'?
@Charles Lange Thanks Charles, It is disgusting what people are capable of regardless of race. The aftermath of Sand Creek was about as horrific as the battle with body parts brought back as trophies. Thanks for the point that these things go both ways. Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 …. There were congressional hearing about it. Colonel Chivington was the guilty party. Commanding Colorado volunteers. He was also a civil war hero. I don’t think he was ever punished in any meaningful way
I always thought that after Custer had been mortally wounded with a bullet near his heart, his brother Tom shot George in the temple to keep him from being tortured. I also read where where their were many empty shell casings around where Toms body was found near George. Toms body was so badly mutilated, the only way he could be recognized was a tattoo on his arm. Toms head was beaten and flattened into a thin, gelatin, pancake. Squaws rammed long knitting awls into Custers two ears so he would hear better in the after life. They did this because he had not listened to the Indians who warned him eight years earlier in 1868, after he murdered woman and children at Washita in Oklahoma. In closing, George had an arrow jammed up into his penis. This detail was kept from his wife Libby. There is speculation that Custer had fathered a chid with a Sioux squaw named Meotzie (SP?). The childs name was Yellowbird. Custer went to Montana to attack and exterminate a race of people who were simply defending their homeland. I believe Custer reaped the consequences of picking a fight with a larger force. Custer had eleven horses shot out from under him during the Civil War. He believed in what he called "Custers Luck." He thought if you attacked a larger force, "fate would favor the bold." The day he died, his scouts warned him "We don't have enough bullets to kill them all." Custers response was "Then make every shot a killer." It is my personal opinion Custer got what he deserved.
You got some of this from a semi-fictional book and film, "Son of the Morning Star." Custer's ears were not perforated. In fact, the women did not get to the Custer position. They mangled and looted the dead of the Reno line near the camp.
@@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244Ouch! As a student of the battle myself, some of what skyking5032 says is true; some of it is not. I could take it apart piece by piece but that would take too long. I'm curious though -- what's your source of information on the fact that the women never made it to Custer Hill?
Just one random comment Tom Custer's body was mutilated so badly probably done by Rain in the Face. Those two knew each other as a matter of fact -- Tom had arrested him in an episode some years earlier and were essentially sworn enemies.
And Custer didn't go to exterminate the native Americans. He was following orders. The extermination of the native Americans was the explicit policy of the United States government. You want to blame somebody? Blame William Tecumseh Sherman. The one on his deathbed regretted the fact to his son that he had not exterminated all native Americans. So don't put this on Custer.
Custer was not a coward. That is about the only good thing I have to say about him. He was committing genocide along with the U.S. govt. They lied every time they promised the Sioux land and never kept their word or contract. It makes me sick thinking about it. Govt. double talk, and it reminds me of Josie Wales and 10 Bears. I find the loss at LBH a loss for both the U.S. and the Native tribes. After LBH the Native tribes faced Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears. Just a plain extermination of a race of people who were here long before any European people arrived and stole everything they had, including their lives. Sad tale of total rape of land, Bison and Tribes covering the whole continent. Custer got what he deserved. The U.S. got everything else pretty easily.
Of course no person of color ever did anything wrong. You would love how marxists view the world. You would absolutely love it.
@@gib59er56The indian was committing genocide as well. The indians attacked and killed, raped and enslaved other indians. I know this is painful to hear. But the “history” had been sanitized so the marxists can convince Americans that their land is stolen and that they are inherently evil.
Thank You, for a very well investigated story and also a very well thought out report of your findings. I was never to keen on Custer, however I would cast no aspersions on him after reading reports on what happened to captives nor anyone in those circumstances. Thanks again for a very good video.
Can you imagine that Porter was in possession of the bullet that felled Custer and not a murmur of this extraordinary relic escaped him or anyone else who was on that hillside when he took it? It beggars belief that if there was a shred of truth to this that our only reference to it would be a letter years later from someone who alleges he had heard it as a 14 year old boy!
No, to my mind this smacks absolutely of someone who, as a youngster, most probably did listen in on a conversation regarding Custer's wounds between Porter and his family. I also have no doubt that Porter confined himself to describing the wounds which he and others observed externally upon Custer. Years later, Neal - now an adult - writes a letter describing his boyhood meeting with the LBH veteran Porter, and his description of Custer's corpse. But he can't resist embellishing his 'brush with history' by ascribing things to Porter which the latter never said anywhere else. In other words, Custer is famous history by this time - and Neal chips in with an exclusive 'new' revelation! In a way, it's akin to some of the survivors of the Benteen/Reno battalions who, as the years passed could not resist 'gilding the lily' of their actual experiences by inventing adventures or knowledge which they did not actualy have.
I totally reject Neal's account of a battlefield 'post-mortem' by Porter.
Second part of that excerpt (continued)"Can you imagine that Porter was in possession of the bullet that felled Custer and not a murmur of this extraordinary relic escaped him or anyone else who was on that hillside when he took it? It beggars belief that if there was a shred of truth to this that our only reference to it would be a letter years later from someone who alleges he had heard it as a 14 year old boy!
No, to my mind this smacks absolutely of someone who, as a youngster, most probably did listen in on a conversation regarding Custer's wounds between Porter and his family. I also have no doubt that Porter confined himself to describing the wounds which he and others observed externally upon Custer. Years later, Neal - now an adult - writes a letter describing his boyhood meeting with the LBH veteran Porter, and his description of Custer's corpse. But he can't resist embellishing his 'brush with history' by ascribing things to Porter which the latter never said anywhere else. In other words, Custer is famous history by this time - and Neal chips in with an exclusive 'new' revelation! In a way, it's akin to some of the survivors of the Benteen/Reno battalions who, as the years passed could not resist 'gilding the lily' of their actual experiences by inventing adventures or knowledge which they did not actualy have.
I totally reject Neal's account of a battlefield 'post-mortem' by Porter."
@@d.a.2742 Yeah, I think you're right. As for the suicide theory, I think we'll never know. And it doesn't really matter anyway.
I’m inclined to agree with but strongly suspect that Custers death was either from his own hand or one of his men. Tbh, under the circumstances I think I’d probably have done the same thing
for a similar scenario...I would recommend that one scene in "Ulzana's Raid"....
Thanks for sharing your DETAIL video
great presentation and great subject matter. Well done Sir.
I can certainly believe suicide would be a thought when facing certain death. When reading stories written by actual captives and eye witnesses of the torture and mutilation by the Sioux tribes it certainly would be understandable.
Great job on the story!
Love your channel!
Also an account by Cheyenne woman Kate Bighead said she was told soldiers were pointing their revolvers at their head and shooting themselves.
@@andrewstevenson118
Wouldn't you?
Be they true or not the stories that that'd been passed around back then about being tortured in ways like sewn up in a bag and roasted alive over a fire certainly would motivate me to shoot myself as opposed to meeting an end like that.
Like I said, it doesn't matter whether they were true or not it only matters what those guy's believed at the time.
Yea, I'd do it.
@@dukecraig2402 Yep. Horrible fate otherwise.
Thanks for a good video! I'm inclined to believe that General Custer was taken by surprise and shot early in the battle while still trying to find a place to cross the river as Maj Reno had the Indians attention at the end of the massive village. The surprised young braves said that a man was shot off his horse at the river and then assisted by other troopers, which halted the advance and caused a chaotic retreat to higher ground to protect the wounded soldier (Custer?). A shoulder wound from a rifle would need to be attended to as soon as possible to a rearward position. If this indeed was General Custer, I imagined this "rattled" the command and set the tone of battle and possibly explains why several company commanders went to Last Stand Hill, away from their company's last known positions, who had dismounted in picket lines to form defensive lines of fire, who became sitting ducks when the horses with their ammo where spooked off (As evidenced by so many missing horses, that the Braves took). As one Chief testified: The battle took as long as a hungry Brave would, to finish a meal. The battle was so heated that a thick dust cloud developed and Chiefs reported that Braves were fighting each other at the climax. Custer may have offered his side arm to his brother, who may have been the one who pulled the trigger on an unconscious Custer. The "official report" indicated no powder burns to the head (Which may have been for the sake of Mrs Custer).
The position of bodies does seem to indicate that a rout had taken place rather quickly and that the somewhat safer high ground position of Last Stand Hill, was where the possibly incapacitated Custer was being attended to when they were enveloped by hundreds and then thousands of angry warriors. Custer's body being found along with his loyal inner circle of company commanders, relatives and the 7th's Regimental Surgeon nearby point to the chaos that Sunday afternoon in June 1876. That any of the 7th survived is quite the miracle.
@@williamgentile997 A possibility, at least. I guess the myth is that he was killed on Last Stand Hill (unwounded until then) but he could well have been wounded earlier, as you say, and that added to the confusion.
If you want to hear a crazy story, I grew up with my buddy Glenn Custer a direct descendant of general Custer. I'm a direct descendant of a Cherokee Chief. We literally grew up playing cowboy and indians together when we were kids.
George and Libby Custer were childless, thus he has no "direct descendants".
There are no direct descendants of General Custer. Plenty of relatives, no descendants.
@Ed Custard The Cheyenne disagree. They claim he raped a Cheyenne woman and had a daughter named Yellow Flower.
Very good video with lots of info. Really enjoyed it
This is so interesting! Thank you!
I had a very old Chippewa friend told me that his grandfather was a boy when the Sioux warriors rode in with new scalps. They were angry. They had heard they were being accused of killing Custer at the battle at Greasy Grass (Little Bighorn). They said he killed himself early in the battle. They viewed him as a coward and that is why he wasn't scalped.
The problem with so many of the accounts from the Indians, was that very few collaborated.
One big issue I know, was that a good amount their language was untranslatable. So, the interpreters had an impossible job at getting detail, and few stories matched up.
@@wheelchairhillbilly Also...Indians NEVER told lies!
@@stevenpine1939 Of course, because us white folk never did that. You do realize it was the American govt. who broke every treaty they had with the Natives.
They were right. It is my understanding that he always took the women and children while the warriors were away. Brave coward huh?
@@stevenpine1939 Never! Lol
At least one report -by an Indian participant in the battle- stated that Custer had been shot and unhorsed at the very start of the cavalry charge. He was quickly saved, propped up and re-saddled, but the troops under his command were demoralized and rattled, and hastily retreated to a defensive position.
This makes sense, as it was always Custer's way to attack, attack, attack.
The loss of Custer's leadership, coupled with the catatonic behavior of a panicked Reno, turned the two heavily armed wings of his calvary from a mobile, rapid attack force, to two poorly situated,and separated defensive positions, at the near total mercy of the Indians. This not only saved the Indian village, but guaranteed the annihilation of Custer's direct command, and the humiliating neutralization of Reno's forces.
I read that book too.He is called yellow hair and was shot with a lucky long shot.
@@emiconstantino5434
It was chief Gall who said he saw Custer take a shot close to the river with his soldiers assisting him to his horse and back up the hill
I think that you have a good argument for that. Great discussion!
Nice research. Good sources. Thanks
I recall a native American coming to my school to speak some 60 yrs ago it was quite interesting till he told us near the end of his talk that Custer had committed suicide I was so unsettled by this. Felt like he must be lying but now I'm pretty sure he was sincere. I also, as new evidence is revealed believe that his story most likely is based in fact. The heroic last stand was a terrible end for so many.
The fire that swept the national monument (Little Big Horn) a couple of decades ago revealed (on subsequent archeological analysis) that the natives told the truth about what happened that day.
The indians did not know they were fighting Custer for some time after the battle. He had cut his hair short and was covered in dirt and dust. The suggestion that they saw Custer kill himself is preposterous and implausable.
@@scottklewicki9283 A link to that info would mean more than your butt hurt post!
@@scottklewicki9283 He didn't say that the Indian witnessed Custers suicide. The Indians could've learned that Custers temple wound was a suicide shot when they learned that they'd been fighting Custer. Let's be honest Custer had by modern standards committed War Crimes against the Native Americans so he knew if he was taken alive he'd be in a World of pain.
u were there or just believe it
First, regardless of any facts we cannot know, this is a great story well told and referenced. That said, I would tend to believe a simpler story. It is more likely Custer or a relative had a 41 rimfire derringer. I have seen reference to a Custer .41 National Arms derringer that was removed from the battlefield -- no details I saw on whether it was fired or not. Most likely Custer was shot below the heart crossing the Medicine Tail Coulee which broke the 7th's attack. They retrieved Custer from the river and took him away. Dr Porter in this account does not say, I think that Custer was shot in the LEFT side of the head above the temple near the eye. If the bullet came to rest in the back of the skull (a 41 long colt would probably have penetrated the skull easily at such a close range). But the derringer would likely not have penetrated and seems a better possibility. If you imagine a RIGHT-Handed shooter, facing down at Custer prone on the ground, holding a derringer to his head (the left side), it would likely be angled back towards the center of the back of the skull, rather than pointed inward as someone might shoot themself holding the gun against their temple. I would say Custer was mortally wounded in the Coulee, the attack broke and confused, Custer was taken with the troopers and placed in the defensive position probably unable to lead, and someone either as a protective measure, shot and issued Custer a coup de gras, or a wounded trooper or Custer relative administered the blow as the second half of the battle began to close around them. This would jive, I think, with Dr Porter's report and answer the question of why Custer would shoot himself with his left hand. As to Custer falling at the Coulee, that makes the most sense to me of how everything fell apart and Custer mounted no relief or organized withdrawal (or hammered home the attack).
The issue of the pre-issued Thunderer is interesting but probably irrelevant, especially since at lest one Custer (Autie himself) had a .41 rimfire on the battlefield. Thanks, great treasure for more thought, debate, and argument. LOL Thanks!
That story about Custer possibly dying early on is most likely not true. He wasn't the only one in buckskins and the native Americans mostly likely didn't know him by sight especially since so many were expecting to see him with long hair. And I think when the troopers saw the size of what was coming all thoughts of fighting ceased and it became a run-for-you-life scenario.
I agree completely with your analysis and was thinking exactly the same thing about the derringer round being the more likely to have stopped inside the cranium at that range. However, Dr porter said that the bullet exactly fit HIS 41 cal pistol bore, implying that those 41 Colt revolvers had been present as stated, so did Custer in fact have one as well? I know I would have carried a derringer for that reason if I had one and were able to. if Gen Terry himself handed one to Custer when they were on the Yellowstone before he departed, then, yes, he probably did have it with him. The Dr, on the other hand, was with Benteen and Reno and arrived after the fight was over and certainly had his with him. All the Army weapons departed with the victors, so we will never know. The Dr says that the bullet he removed from Custer was of a "curious pointed type" that perfectly fit his 41 Colt bore. These were the type loaded in the 41 rimfire derringer. The original 41 Colt load was a 200 gr blunt nosed bullet over 20 gr of BP. So I think the bullet itself tells the tale. Yes, the newly developed cartridges that were sent with Terry could have used the available 41 rimfire bullet as a test expedient load, but the Dr seemed to not recognize the bullet profile, so his 41 Colt cartridges were likely different. If this account is factual, I believe Custer used a 41 rimfire derringer, perhaps having traded his brother out of his own derringer somehow before the battle, to save himself from the hell he knew he would suffer if captured. He harbored no illusions of how the Sioux would treat him. The hostiles had no 41 cal weapons I believe. This was a great video. Thanks for sharing this with us.
@@mikeyoung9810 as i understand there were very few natives at the coulee i doubt it was quite as impressive as it should have been. However the army was always outnumbered and this was a proven tactic. I doubt the army understood that they would be outgunned. Also there was no immediate opposition at the river to turn them back, i doubt custer himself or tom would have backed down in the water. Even if they were the only two they would have died on the other side. I think. Just makes more sense that they lost their commander before the fight started.
@@krisswanson5410 i forgot that the good Dr had his own pistol. Your points considering that fact are well made. Weirdly i think if Custer had one round and a working trigger finger he would have pointed at an enemy. Still a great story regardless...
I think you are spot-on. I had read on another Custer historical site that the wound to his "left breast" was most likely fatal and a cous de gras shot was delivered by another trooper. Custer's body was beneath another trooper's body.
Wow. I had never considered this for whatever reason, though to be fair my interest in the battle of Little-Big horn has only been mild. Though there was a time when I was a kid and my dad drove us from Washington state out to see the site of the battle, and it affected my young mind greatly seeing those stones. Noticing how they converged in a central location and multiplied. There were many that were in pairs (though I don't remember where I got this information at the time) who had apparently either shot their horses in order to create cover, or perhaps their horses had been dead already. Anyway, what a fantastic look into an intriguing topic that really puts a different perspective on things. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to this, and it has rekindled my interest in the battle. Take care.
A very thought provoking theory and one I wasn't aware of, definitely not beyond the realms of possibility.Very interesting video.
The idea that some of Custer's men committed suicide first gained prominence (first I heard of it anyway) in the book Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself, by Thomas Marquis. He was a physician working with the US Indian Agency after WW1 who learned sign language and sought out native veterans of Little Bighorn. Marquis said his interlocutors told him only after they had known him for a while, that they saw a number of Custer's men kill themselves at the end of the battle. They learned to keep their mouths shut though, as this report met a lot of resistance from whites whom they told; so they typically said, yes, the cavalry all fought gallantly to the last man. Marquis made a case that a percentage of the 7th were fairly new men who had not fought Indians before but who had certainly heard the adage "keep the last bullet for yourself" because of the horrid tortures the Indians would inflict on a prisoner, real and fanciful. And so when confronted with the certainty of no escape in the midst of literally thousands of warriors, they took an easier way out. Something similar to the mass suicide of Japanese civilians in Okinawa during WW2, which Marquis did not live to see.
Marquis's book has been just about universally panned by historians, though many liked the book he wrote about Wooden Leg. And about Custer, who knows. He was reported to have a bullet wound to the temple, but maybe he didn't really. It was also reported that amongst all the dead he was the one not mutilated. That just strains credulity; why would he be spared that indignity? Some say a suicide wouldn't be touched, but how many would have witnessed that from the many hundreds on the scene when it supposedly occurred, or the hundreds of noncombatants who came upon the scene later to pick up something useful and express their displeasure with the soldiers? So the temple wound and the lack of mutilation of the body could be a simple palliative to the public; the great hero left this world quickly and was not dishonored. It could also be that Custer was given a coup de grace by his own brother Tom, found not far away, to keep him from further suffering.
According to some of the contemporary stories Custer was held in some esteem because of some of his prior contacts with the Sioux and Cheyenne. Apparently, the only damage done to his body was that a woman punctured his ear drums to open his ears so he could hear what was being said. Apparently he didn't take the advice of a war chief and dishonored his word.
@@johnemerson1363 The story I saw about the punctured ear drums was reported by a native woman who said she saw it done by two southern Cheyenne women (Washita survivors) who first stopped warriors from mutilating Custer's body, except for part of a finger, as they wanted his body for themselves. In addition to awls in the ears, they shoved an arrow up his penis in revenge for killing of women and children at Washita and rape of some of those captured women by Custer personally and by some of his officers. Though if they were that angry, and seeing that Custer was attempting it all over again, one would think they would have gone much further than that.
Supposedly Custer was not scalped as he had cut his hair fairly short when the campaign commenced. Several warriors later took credit for killing Custer.
One thing I wished I had more information about is whether anyone in the Indian encampment could even recognize Custer. I'm only aware of warriors later saying they had no idea he was there or, for that matter, who was the soldiers' commanding officer. The cavalry were just all attacking soldiers.
None of this speaks to the real question at hand, it just points out that, like other reports about the battle, there is a lot of conflicting testimony.
@@johnemerson1363 he had a child with a Cheyenne woman so for her sake they didn't chop him up.
But earlier in the battle when warriors were taking scalps, his was passed over because he committed suicide and tainted the scalp.
Its all hear say, we will never know what happened in those last few minutes.
Personally I think he killed himself when he realised the fight was over. He probably witnessed his brother Tom fight like a mad dog going out swinging and knew then it was done. I think what grates on us all is the fact that Custer was a hero an idol to so many, the thought of him taking his own life seems impossible. Maybe just maybe though that was his last bullet and that bullet was in fact his last defiant stand.
@@jimbob465 It was his brother, Tom Custer, who actually was the father of the child. George Custer was impotent due to a venereal disease.
I have never heard this. Not only is it fascinating, but I feel it's probably true. The part about Dr. Porter forbidding anyone to tell anyone until after his wife was dead is heartbreaking. I know that he was still speculating according to how the wound was found, but that's how we solve crimes and even distinguish them as or from suicide. Fascinating, ya got a new subscriber❤️
Thanks Jeri, I appreciate you watching and commenting. I like your crime scene approach. Todd
👍 agree! Also new sub. Thanks.
I agree... It makes sense. Especially if the US Cavalry suspected it and the reasons for keeping Custer's suicide from public knowledge. Custer realized what was happening and why wouldn't he do it. As for the Indian's I realize in a major fight. But if the Indian's recognized Custer why wouldn't they want to capture him? Holding Custer hostage to negotiate would be a feather in their cap,
Excellent insight, thank you sir. ❤
Fascinating information! Thank you!
Great video; however, there is one point you overlooked. The native American cultures were heavily invested in the torture of captured enemies. For them, if you bravely faced your torture, they would kill you more quickly. If you screamed, cried, or wiggled too much, they would prolong it as long as possible. So did Custer and his men commit suicide when faced with certain defeat? I say yes, as I'm sure any sane man would have.
Wrong. Custer was outmanned and outgunned according to forensics there is no evidence of any of the men committing suicide
But.... but.... but.... Indigenous people were kind and friendly!!!!
@@blindjustice8718nobody thinks this. If not for strawman arguments, right wingers would have nothing
@@willywonka7812 You need to get out more. Left wingers have been misrepresenting indigenous tribes from the racist father of the racist Democratic Party who was all for genocide to modern day empaths who think natives were sitting around singing Kumbaya together until bad white man came and started killing them for sport (and gold).
@@willywonka7812what are you talking about? It’s the only way it’s framed. Never mind the women who was their ears cut off and nose melted down and forced into slavery and repeatedly raped. It’s not a right wing thing. It’s white people who are sick of being called evil and hateful and having their history twisted
Very good analysis. Difficult to arrive at any definitive conclusions. Some members of the Mexican Army had a similar tale about the Battle of the Alamo, specifically as it concerned Davy Crockett. The claim was that Crockett was one of the last survivors and rather than “fighting to the death”, he desperately tried to surrender… where upon the Mexicans were obliged to execute him (since Santa Anna had issued a “no quarters to be given” order). Again, a story that could have been true or not. Indians were quite famous for their torture capabilities: in order to secure a small group of captured white settlers (1838, Lockhart, TX) overnight and no ability to lock them up, the Comanche Indians simply skinned the bottoms of their feet. 😱
Excellent research. Good job.
I recall this having been written and talked about years ago, and it remains an interesting (and logical) possibility. Thanks for an interesting post.
In the book Son of the Morning Star by Evan S. Connell there is a description given by a group of young warriors that as Custer's battlion came down Medicine Trail Coulee that they fired at the lead soldiers and a man they described large and on a sorrel horse was apparently hit, and after that the soldiers stopped their advance, gathered the fallen soldier and altered their march toward Last Stand Hill. As I recall other descriptions of Custer's body described three wounds on in the thigh, one in the left chest, possibly fatal, not the shoulder as claimed by Dr. Porter and the temple wound that could have been fired by one of soldiers around Custer toward the end of the battle or an indian as they overran the battlefield finishing off any remaining soldiers or wounded men. Given that most Senior officers rode at the front of their units and Custer would have been most likely to be in the lead, I believe that Custer is the man described as being hit in the opening stages of the battle and the nearest troopers pulled up to recover their fallen leader and was essentially out of action for the remainder of the battle. Further descriptions by officer that surveyed the battlefield in the days following the engagement describe the chest wound as bloody, indicating Custer was alive when he was hit there and the head wound was not. This would indicate that Custer was dead when it was fired.
Finally, when the Army sent a detachment to recover the officers remains and properly bury the enlisted men the "bodies" recovered were little more than skletons and as they had not been properly buried, but rather covered with a few shovels of dirt and brush, etc. it would have been nearly impossible to identify powder burns on the temple at that time. Further most accounts of the recovery effort describe a scene that made fully identifying the remains was very difficult, even in the case of Custer and his brother Thomas.
I fully admit that I do not subscribe to the theory that Custer killed himself. However, given all of my reading and research into Custer's life and death, his personality and demonstrated courage under fire throughout the his military career just do not support a supposition that he would have killed himself in battle.
In the end, I believe that Custer was incapacitated early in the fight and by the end of the battle he had already died. The temple wound was quite probably fired just to make sure by either one of his soldiers or Indians mopping up the battlefield.
As far as the bullet caliber it is likely that if the shot was fired by an Indian they may have picked up the pistol and used it on Custer.
Bravo very well-reasoned!
Spending a lot of my time researching the Battle for my history degree, I would have to agree with your assessment here. He was very well known for riding out in front of his men and would have been one of the first, if not the first, shot and killed. He was not the person to commit such an act. Even early on in Custer's military career, when he was in a great deal of danger, there was no mention of an attempt or reason for suicide. He was gallant to the end and too strong willed to even consider suicide. Now something I think many people infer was Custer was probably Keough. He was known for riding a large grey clay-back horse and was seen fleeing the area by natives upon such time as they pursued watched this "officer" fire upon himself with a pistol. So this story may be hinting at Custer, but nothing about it screams Custer. Also, by the time Terry and reinforcements arrived on June 27th, the field was blacked from when the Natives burnt it, the bodies had been lying out in extreme heat for at least 2 days...there is no true way, at the time, to positively identify the dead or when they died. Except for Sturgis, as his head was seen in a teepee. As time has progressed, there are a number of new theories surrounding Custer and most of them stem from his "cowardice and inability to lead." But how much of that is actually true. I am not a Custer glorifier, but at the same time it seems new ideas to tarnish him continue to grow and show little proof of stopping anytime soon. If anything, I feel, that Custer was the perfect scapegoat for a failed mission from the start and anything that can be used against him will and much of it fabricated.
I too believe Custer would have never committed suicide. He always rode from the front in the Civil War, the most dangerous position for an officer. He had 11 horses shot under him during the War..
He would have fought to the end. Just Medically speaking, in Custers time most chest wounds would have been fatal, he would have perished of pneumonia thorax, blood loss or infection..He knew that, if wounded as such he would have continued to fight, just like you or I would have. He was an Officer and had a Command he was responsible for……..
There is a book I read a long time ago about the Batlle of Little Bighorn called "Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself". I don't remember if it talked about Custer committing suicide, but it did detail how so many of the soldiers did, from fear of being captured and just plain fear of the circumstances they were in.
its not like the soldiers were being captured by the Confederates at Shiloh... they knew the outcome of the Fetterman Fight from a decade earlier, and what the Indians did to whites and also enemy tribes' fighters when caught in battle... savagery/no quarter... so it's not out of the question they would have taken their own way out.
Indian accounts back this up.
Custer had a standing order to the Seventh to keep the last bullet for themselves according to his widow Libby Custer in her book Boots and Sadles
Growing up in the 60’s it was always thought that Custer’s brother Thomas shot him in the temple when it was getting near the end and then shot himself. Kid’s talk maybe. But we knew too, that the soldiers were tortured if captured and usually by fire, burning them slowly. In later years I remember reading that Reno’s men heard screams coming from the direction of a large bonfire the night of the battle and screaming words in English. They would cut the bodies up so they could not fight in the after world. I think the only living thing not cut up after the Fetterman massacre was the company dog which they just killed and left. Ah well, what kids heard for the most part back then, as almost a hundred years later it was talked about a lot. We knew about Libby Custer as well and that the facts of Custer’s last stand would be revealed once she was dead, but she had outlived everyone and the files were lost in the National Archives someplace, so we were led to believe.
Cowards
thank you very much for making this video. it was an eye opener and you wonder what did those men do and why. thank you very much..
Really enjoyed this analysis
Just imagine how those survivors on last stand hill must have felt as their ammunition was running out, they’d realized Reno and Benteen weren’t coming to their rescue and they could see the Indians butchering anyone who attempted to surrender. They must have felt sheer terror and I think putting a bullet through your own head rather than waiting to be slaughtered like a pig must have had some kind of horrible appeal. I don’t think Custer shot himself but strongly suspect one of his own troopers or a Custer family member euthanized him at his own request. Just horrible, but very believable…
They didn't run out of ammunition. They probably didn't even use half of it. But they natives used most of the rest of it... Some on major Reno
How do you know they didn’t run out of ammunition? The modern view is that Custers command simply panicked, ran and were overwhelmed without firing hardly any ammunition. I don’t buy that. A lot of credence is placed on the fact that not many spent cartridges in the areas of the main fighting have been found. Well I would posit that almost 150 years of souvenir hunters picking the battlefield clean have made it simply impossible to know what the 7ths ammunition expenditure was on that day. As regards my comment that they ran out of ammunition I’m talking specifically about the fight on last stand hill. Each trooper only had 100 carbine rounds and 24 pistol rounds (with 50 spare rounds with their horses). The Indians say the last fight lasted around maybe half an hour, burning through 100 carbine rounds in that time frame in my opinion isn’t unreasonable at all…
@@bougeac it would seem so but, there are natives whom claimed to have used the ammunition From those soldiers. Also these were not modern weapons and it is not a firing range. The Spencer's they were using shot bullets with copper casings which , when inserted into their single shot rifles, would expand from the heat of the heated barrel and the shell then had to be pried out. They actually had a special tool for this. You know this has already been debunked many times over. We have had a hard time finding the shells or casings after every funeral and we only fire 3 volleys , almost always in short cut grass and we know where to look and still we loose some. Grass especially prairie grass grows over and covers everything. It was only after there had been a fire there, that people began finding a lot. Even then we still had to excavate, and then they even found unfired rounds. People whom assume they ran out of ammunition are going back to early reports trying to justify the loss of Custer's 5 companies
I’m not trying to justify anything. The 7th cavalry’s standard rifle was the Springfield and not the Spencer as you claim. Who said they were on a firing range? The ammunition used against the reno/Benteen position after the Custer fight was probably (we don’t know for sure and will never know) a combination of what was retrieved from Custers command and Reno’s aborted attack. The “cases jamming the rifles” myth has been debunked very convincingly, so I’m not sure why you’re giving so much credence to it. I’m only replying to your comments as they come across as statements of FACT, my views are just my opinions based on an intensive study of the battle. The only way your views can be facts is if they’re based on eyewitness accounts from BOTH sides, that of course, will never happen…
@@bougeac Yep, Spencers were long gone in the army by then and the trapdoor springfield was standard issue
I have a book called Custer's Fall which was oral history gathered from Sioux, Cheyenne etc who either were there or who had these stories from relatives. I'll have to dig it out. some thought that Custer was shot early on in the fracas and was taken to the site of "the last stand". He may have been killed. Anyone, it was not out of the realm of possiibility that a soldier would commit suicide knowing just what happen as far as mutilation, scalping. Custer even had his hair cut beforehand for fear of scalping
accounts do seem to say an officer was shot down by the creek while trying to cross
@@frankpienkosky5688 That is what my book states. There is a pretty good book on Custer "Son of the Morning Star."
Fantastic video and one that sure makes you think. My question, after the video is, would the bullet still being in his head for the Doctor to be able to retrieve it when shot at such close range or would it have exited the head especially since they say it was pointed. I am not a medical person but it seems to me that if you held a pistol to your temple it would go right through the skull. Just discovered your channel and I am glad I did.👍
I am an Italian immigrant, came here in 1962 and I'm fascinated by the plains Indian wars. I researched how many Italians were actually in the 7th Calvary at the Little Big Horn and found 7 of them. Of the seven, 1st Lt Carlo DiRudio was a soldier during the unification of Italy in 1848. He was from a Nobel family in Milan, an Aristocrat and not much in common with his fellow Italians. The others Felice Vinatieri, Company H, was Chief Musician and a veteran of the Austrian Wars during the Italian Independence. Another notable Italian was Giovanni Martini, aka John Martin was trumpeter of Company H (Capt Benteen) and instructed to be Custer trumpeter. As Custer prepared to attack the Village, he realized he did not have enough men so he sent John Martin with a note to Capt. Benteen, to hurry his advance and bring up the pack train ( a note because John Martin spoke very little English). John Martin, whose horse had been wounded by an Indian sharpshooter, reached Captain Benteen but it was too late, he was about 4 miles behind Custer. John Martin, became the last surviving white man to see Custer and his men alive. All Italians survived the Battle and for Marin and DiRudio, they both retired with rank, DiRudio was promoted to Major and Martin to Sergeant. DiRudio passed away in 1910, buried in Pasadena, California and Martin, in Brooklyn, 1922, New York City.
Thanks Tuco, I really appreciate the effort you put into finding this information regarding those who share your heritage. Very interesting. Thanks for watching, Todd
@ antles49
I recommend you read "Save the Last Bullet for Yourself." It was written by a U.S. Army doctor stationed on the Indian Res where the battle took place which is next to what I believe was a Cheyenne Res after the battle. He has at least a part of a chapter on soldier and civilian suicide thoughts and even claims that a friend had given Custer a derringer for the express purpose of his being armed in order to commit suicide if he felt the need. Custer kept the derringer reportedly and as you said .41 was the caliber of derringers in that day. He also reports several Indian/Cavalry battles in which the cavalry always won except in one case where it is known that the whole unit committed mass suicide because it was in sight of their fort and was witnessed by those within the fort.
Great video. I had read about this quite sometime ago. Along with several other things Custer had done in his life post civil war and all was hidden to protect his legacy.
Great presentation and information. That century shows it was common to take one's own life or the life of one with you if circumstances were so. Some of that happened at the Little Bighorn and perhaps Colonel Custer did as well. It would never matter except to family. This one will always be studied and should be.
This video was conspicuously great!
It’s my understanding that the temple wound was on the left. Custer was apparently right handed and his right arm/hand was not incapacitated. Other explanations are that he may have been shot by his brother to prevent him being captured or that he was finished off by warriors or women at the end of the battle. This is a good presentation as there is always more to learn. And he’s right…we’ll no doubt never know the full truth.
Isn't it also possible that he could have had a sword in his right hand which would place a pistol in his left?
I don't know, is it known that Custer carried a sword that day? Would it have been common for him personally to have armed himself in that manner of he had one in each hand? I don't know what the standard practice was for an officer who would have deployed both weapons at the same time but even if it was standard for an officer to have the pistol in his right hand and a sword in his left knowing Custer it's not hard to believe he'd have done something like that his own way instead of what some standard training was for the time, wasn't much about him you could consider as "standard".
@@dukecraig2402 No, Only 2 swords in the 7th cavalry are at the Battle of the Little Big Horn, one with the pack mules and DeRudios'. Also, I highly doubt Custer had a 41 Cal. Colt that day.
Maybe one of his Own Troopers shot him, in The Name of Gary Owen and Glory
If the shoulder-wound happened first, he would have had to use the other hand. On the other hand soldiers often ‘helped’ one another in collective suicide to avoid torture, so the shot could have been fired by his brother.
Anyone that has handled handguns for a length of time will develop enough proficiency with the non dominate hand to shoot himself in the temple.
According to eyewitnesses who watched the 7th ride out from Fort Abraham Lincoln on Custer’s last campaign, the general carried two “self-cocking English Bulldog pistols” which were rare double action revolvers made by Webley -Scott for the Royal Irish Constabulary and known to be Custer’s favorites. They were .442 caliber.
Also, one such Webley-Scott revolver was the only gun in Custer’s collection that was missing after LBH.
Either he had acquired a second Webley revolver and carried both into battle or (more likely,) he carried one of those and his 1873 Army Colt as well.
Thanks Frank, Custer's appreciation for his Webley revolvers is well documented. They're not a dead ringer for what became the Model 1877 Colt, but I wonder if people confused the two? Thanks for watching, Todd
E.S. Godfrey, a Lieutenant in the 7th Cav and present at the Battle of the LBH, also wrote that Custer was armed that day with "a Remington Sporting rifle, octagonal barrel; two Bulldog selfcocking, English, white-handled pistols, with a ring in the butt for a lanyard; a hunting knife, in a beaded fringed scabbard; and a canvas cartridge belt."
But a Webley Royal Irish Constabulary revolver is not considered a British bulldog revolver
@@gunfighterzero I understand, but I think we can agree that they were short-bareled Webleys with white grips.
@@lowcountrydawg2525 definitely
Awesome presentation!
Viewing from Down Under mate, and that was bloody brilliant work you presented there. Personally I have always believed Custer was a buffoon who simply got his men slaughtered - suicide or valiant death. Custer in the last battle of his life showed utter military incompetence. But your video and the anecdotal evidence at least taught me that brave soldiers know it’s ok to keep a final bullet. Those men under him were the real heroes. New subbie, cheers and I look forward to more of your provocative and revealing history videos 👍💯
I love it when some foreigner who has probably never seen combat calls a hero of the American Civil War a buffoon.
I read that Custer carried a brace of Webley Bulldogs into battle. This is my first time hearing of Dr. Porter's testimony. Dr. Thomas Marquis' book, " Save the Last Bullet for Yourself " details the many instances of soldiers and civilians who prepared to commit suicide and some who actually did. This is one more piece in the puzzle for me.
I used to collect Webleys, & was aware of Custer taking two revolvers into the battle area. Webley factory records from that time were burned in a fire, so I reached out to Jim Supica of Old Town Station, who published a fun-to-read rag about Western lore, to see i f anyone was aware of the serial numbers of those guns. He appealed to some group (can't recall the name) to see if they could discover the data. I heard nothing back.
The Colt prototypes in 41 caliber could of easily been mistaken for the British Webly Constabulary " Bulldog" style as they were both double action in that day called " self cocking " those that described Custers revolvers probably didn't know he was carrying a prototype Colt later the " Thunderer"
I also had read that Custer carried a pair of Webleys at the little big horn. I also read that Custer was out of the fight. His brother actually shot Custer in the head before shooting himself.
@@stevejorgensen5274 I think Tom did shoot his brother but was then killed by the Indians. Tom fought like a madman and that's why he was mutilated so badly .
Pvt.William O'Taylor in his account of the battle entitled "With Custer on the Little Bighorn," described the valley fight and his escape across the river to the high ground. He describes how had been careful to save the last bullet in his revolver for himself because his mount was too tired to make it up the hill and he thought he'd be captured. He accidentally dropped his weapon while fleeing for his life. Luckily he made it to the top of the hill and was able to fight with his rifle. Dr. Marquis wrote a book with the title Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself. Is it possible that General Custer made sure he was not taken alive? Yes it is, and it is reminiscent of a Roman general falling on his sword in defeat. We will not however know for sure till the great hearafter. Funny how I just read that very passage yesterday.
It's hard to know for sure. But the possibility is there. I'm loving all this discussion because it's heartwarming to know others appreciate history. Todd
I’m 75 & grew up watching every western I could.We always played Cowboys & Indians & no one wanted to be an Indian. Many of the westerns had characters that referred to Apaches as Red Devils bc of their means of torture & death. They did such things as cutting open the live victim’s stomach & fill it with hot coals. They loved to keep the victims alive for days, to slowly torture them with different means,as groups took turns joining in as long as their were able. It totally makes sense that facing probable capture,the proper course would be suicide. So many massacred at that battle. Thank you for your research for this interesting presentation!🤗
That's a very good book, which are stories told by Indian relatives and participants in the battle.
Awesome Content!! Thank You!!!
Great investigation! Thanks